Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pacifying Angry Bashir
Hey Listers This article may have nothing to do with ICTs but it dovetails into all concerns raised on the list today namely the need for: A value system Change of attitude, Divine intervention. Ndio hakuna maji, wala stima, wala gas, wala daktari. Pia swala la Bashir should concern us. Rgds Grace http://www.the-star.co.ke/opinions/david-makali/52460-why-it-is-wrong-to-pac... Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pacifying Angry Bashir Monday, 05 December 2011 00:06 BY DAVID MAKALI Sudanese President and genocide suspect Gen Omar al Bashir has scored a major diplomatic coup over Kenya. His threats of retaliation against the High Court’s arrest order that made Kenya’s executive arm squirm and whimper may go down as Kenya’s biggest diplomatic fiasco. Gen Bashir has been walking around with an arrest warrant on his head for the past five years. He has defied international law and tried to rope the continent’s fading club of dictators to his rebellion against the international criminal justice system. The hapless African Union has been browbeaten into accusing the ICC of being a racist, partisan and quasi-judicial process targeting the continent for humiliation. But those arguments fall flat for lack of alternatives and because their proponents are not credible. Its most vocal advocates have such appalling human rights records at home that nobody will listen to them. To avoid the prospect of the sad ending that his peers in the north have met, Gen Bashir has promptly promised not to seek re-election when his term expires in three years. But with every passing day and peers being routed by popular revolutions, his continued stewardship of the Sudan is even more shaky and untenable. Thanks to regional geopolitical considerations, the world continues to soft-pedal on Gen Bashir. But soon as the fragile Comprehensive Peace Agreement with the newly independent South Sudan is sewn up, he will have little room to rant and terrify pacifist neighbours like Kenya. Mr Bashir needs to ask Mr Laurent Gbagbo, now at The Hague, what happened to him. That Kenya’s ministers of Defence and Foreign Affairs could fly to Khartoum to appease the Sudanese President was a bizarre display of our impotence as a sovereign state. Who between Kenya and Sudan stood to lose the most from a fall-out? Is Kenya the underdog or why is the Kenya government so beholden to Bashir when in fact the world is on Kenya’s side? Bashir could as well go ahead and bar all aircraft from Kenya from landing in Khartoum, expel the Kenyan members of the UN peacekeeping mission in Sudan and all Kenyans studying or working in Sudan. He can withdraw all Sudanese investments and sever all trade ties. Costly as these actions may be, Kenya’s rush to pacify Bashir was astonishing. It had the option of sitting back to let Bashir further isolate himself and provide the impetus required to further push him to account for the dead and suffering thousands of Sudanese. Instead Kenya squandered an opportunity to provide exemplary African leadership in the quest for global justice by recapitulating and thinking small. The government has no business appealing the decision of the court on behalf of Bashir. Kenyan taxpayers money should not be expended to advance injustice or to frustrate the rule of law. President Kibaki and all his ministers are bound by the national values and principles of governance enunciated in Section 10 of our constitution, to wit, all their actions must advance the rule of law and democracy. Kenya need not fret and cower from Bashir’s tantrums because it is not the first time such a diplomatic row has occurred between countries. In February 2009, Uganda’s Red Pepper published a series of articles claiming that President Muammar Gaddafi had exhibited an unusual fondness of Best Kamigisha, then 42-year-old widowed queen of Toro, one of Uganda’s five traditional kingdoms. The paper alleged that the two were romantically involved and the pretty queen had been holidaying in Tripoli, and accompanying Gaddafi on foreign trips as he paid reciprocal visit to Uganda. The tabloid persisted in its love allegations but the government initially left it to the Libyan authorities to act and the ambassador in Kampala sued the rabid tabloid for defamation, demanding $1 billion (Sh89.8 billion) in damages. The government however jumped into the fray after Gaddafi complained to Museveni. The prosecutor moved to charge the editors with criminal defamation of a foreign dignitary with intent to disturb peace and friendship between Uganda and Libya. That intervention was unnecessary in a purely civil matter but Kenya’s actions show it would be inclined to borrow a leaf from Kampala. In another similar incident, a French court indicted nine (military) aides of President Paul Kagame for the 1994 Genocide in November 2006. Kagame characteristically leaped at the French government, cutting off diplomatic ties and recalling his envoy but a deal was soon struck that restored full diplomatic ties with President Sarkozy visiting Rwanda and Kagame reciprocating the gesture last year. That did not deter German Interpol from arresting one of the indicted aides, Rose Kabuye, then Rwanda’s protocol chief against whom warrants had been issued for actions that allegedly triggered the genocide. German police handed her to the French court for trial but she was released after France dropped the charges and undertook to initiate fresh investigations. These incidents only demonstrate that in a democracy, institutions such as courts and the media must be left to perform their function. They must not be interpreted to represent the executive, nor should they mirror the thinking of the political leadership of the day. But that logic is alien to tyrants who believe courts are an extension of the political state and must convey the will of the government of the day. That’s is the case in Sudan where judges, like Kenya of yore, must always second-guess the executive. In that context, one can see the foundation of Bashir’s baseless fury. Baseless because it betrays his lack of understanding of more functional democratic societies like ours. The Kenya constitution clearly stipulates that “the general rules of international law shall form part of the law of Kenya” and further, that “any treaty or convention ratified by Kenya (such as the Rome Statute) shall form part of the law of Kenya law (2)”. The same Constitution also mandates every citizen to defend it (sect 3) and grants any Kenyan, singly or organized as a group, company, civil society or community based organization, the right to institute measures to enforce the constitution in the public interest (Chapter 17). Seeing how the constitution and international law which we have domesticated was being violated, law-abiding citizens organized as the International Commission of Jurists took the initiative of ensuring justice is done for the citizens of Sudan by seeking the arrest of one Omar al Bashir, who happens to be the President of the great African republic of Sudan. High Court Judge Nicholas Ombija obliged. As long as the Court’s order, which according to Wetangula is incapable of obedience, stands, any good intentioned Kenyan can carry out a citizen arrest of Mr Bashir. The government’s paranoid response also raises fundamental questions about our foreign policy. Ideally, diplomatic relations are forged between countries represented by leaders who come and go as Bashir surely will. It is assumed that such leaders are popular (elected) which is not always the case. And as the Libyan example has recently shown, it is the people who are sovereign: the fatal rout of Gaddafi has not deterred Kenya and other African countries from relating with the Libyan people. Bashir’s tyrannical posture only lends credence to the obvious need to democratize the Sudan. Kenya’s rightful policy should be support to the people of Sudan, not necessarily its contested leadership, which Mr Wetangula and the Kenya government have elected to suck up to. It is not the business of the Kenya government to protect suspects wanted for genocide and crimes against humanity. Government officials who took an oath to protect the constitution cannot abdicate that responsibility without inviting sanctions from Kenyans. If the Attorney General and the Minister for Internal Security cannot execute the court order when Gen Bashir ever steps on Kenyan soil, they will be liable for contempt of court proceedings and other measures to remove them from office. It is unfortunate that the government should be speaking out of turn with our new Supreme Law and the reality of the new Kenya. It should tone down its panicky diplomatic rhetoric and refer the matter to the Attorney General to pen a polite notes verbates to el Bashir regretting that there is nothing that can be done about the court order and advice him to turn up at The Hague to clear his name or avoid visiting us. The new Kenyan Constitution is no respecter of persons, even foreign presidents. And that should be our rightful foreign policy — to promote human rights and rule of law globally. Bashir’s warrant of arrest is a standing testimony of the international community’s determination to ensure the rule of law and justice for all. Bashir seized power in a military coup and progressively morphed into a civilian President but he is still a runaway despot. Claims of brutal suppression of the fundamental freedoms of Darfurians and other western Sudanese require due legal process. That is not to say he should be convicted without trial or hanged unfairly. But he must accede to one simple request — appear before the ICC and confront those charges. His streak of defiance and hostility is the stuff of a man scared of justice. Kenya should not acquiesce to his threats and intimidation or bend its laws to shield him from justice. Until the warrants are lifted, Kenya is obligated to arrest and hand him over to the ICC. It cannot hide behind the resolution of the African Union not to cooperate with the ICC because that does not supercede our constitution. Nor should considerations such as the delicate Sudan peace process and our own appointment with the ICC interfere with the rule of law. The government’s cowardly actions are demeaning of our statehood and injurious to our pride as an aspiring democracy and champion of rule of law on the continent. I am very ashamed of my government. Makali is a journalist media consultant. --
Grace, I am at University Oxford on the invitation by Prof. Woods, Dean of the Blavatinik School of Government to discuss the school's future curriculum in the face a dynamic world. Our discussion centered on Challenges of Government, the innovation imperative. This evening, several academics, philosophers and few Government bureaucrats helped craft the School's value proposition (future direction stating what needs to be achieved, the role of technology and Government and the matrix to measure the achievement). Some thinkers felt that its student selection need to change from purely academic to students with a passion in Government. There is a need to change teaching from current general academic to more practical field based research. There must be focus on data analytic to create evidence based policy. Teach students to appreciate crowd sourcing tools in policy development. Do more research in governance and come up with a common understanding on what the real definitions of such terms as corruption, governance etc. Above all teach ethics especially with the aim of students appreciating how to build trust in public service. The issue of ethics bothers the European as much as it bothers us, the difference is that their judicial system works. The Euro crisis is to some extent the product of corruption. They are dealing with it by denying some of the weaker nations some autonomy and save the face of Europe. We too need to learn from the European experience. Before we create a single currency in East Africa, we need to agree on a harmonized fiscal policy otherwise we shall dive into a deep hole. Some of the problems we have can be solved through intra Africa trade. We need to create internal dependences to the extent that Sudan cannot threaten Kenya as it did. We need to also learn from other countries that national interests are far more greater than being politically right. More people died in the Congo war than in Dafur yet we want to be the ones to implement international treaties at the expense of our people. Some Nations trading with Sudan have far greater capacity to implement international treaties than we do but their national interests especially in oil are greater than just trying to be politically right. Diplomacy, politics and national interests are what the executive arms do not Judiciary. Unless we want to politicise our Judiciary, we may be trying to chew more than we can swallow. There is precedence from Britain that can help us close this chapter. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet. Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion. "Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither. But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo. He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government." You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world. Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Kenya is right in pacifying Bashir. Bashir is still important to Kenya as the Sudan Head of state. The fact that Bashir is an 'enemy' of ICC does not make him an 'enemy' of Kenya. A pacified Bashir will be good for Kenya in the larger scheme of things, even as that does not make Bashir any less a suspect as accused by ICC. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but 'everyone' should know that 'everyone' else is capable of critical thinking, not less the so called 'government'. I wish all journalists would temper partisan and populist emotions with some cold reason; but then that is like wishing that pigs would fly. On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:48 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet.
Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion.
"Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither.
But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo.
He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government."
You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world.
Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident?
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir
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Daktari, I completely agree with you on this. Our media does not set the agenda on global events/issues and give a Kenyan or an African perspective on these issues. Instead it simply regurgitates whatever the global media provides us with.Anything from CNN or New York Times is the default position of the Kenyan media. ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 6:48 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet. Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion. "Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither. But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo. He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government." You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world. Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/sochanji%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Dear all, I think David Makali made a number of very good points, including: - 'The Kenya constitution clearly stipulates that “the general rules of international law shall form part of the law of Kenya” and further, that “any treaty or convention ratified by Kenya (such as the Rome Statute) shall form part of the law of Kenya law (2)' - 'Kenya’s rightful policy should be support to the people of Sudan, not necessarily its contested leadership, which Mr Wetangula and the Kenya government have elected to suck up to.' - 'It is unfortunate that the government should be speaking out of turn with our new Supreme Law and the reality of the new Kenya. It should tone down its panicky diplomatic rhetoric and refer the matter to the Attorney General to pen a polite notes verbates to el Bashir regretting that there is nothing that can be done about the court order and advice him to turn up at The Hague to clear his name or avoid visiting us. This isn't about foreign media - that's a weak argument and a red herring, because it doesn't address what David actually said. I found it distasteful how Kenya's government representatives hurried up to appease a man who is sought for mass murder. But what I think or don't think doesn't matter, because this is a legal decision: A Kenyan judge ruled that under its current constitution and international laws that Kenya committed to, the country is obliged to arrest Bashir when he enters Kenya. The only way around this is, I assume, a new court case that would would come to a different conclusion on what Kenya's legal obligations are. If you don't want to get into that whole brouhaha, there are subtle ways of addressing this as many other countries have done - they told Bashir informally, and discretely, that regrettably he can't visit/if he attends a function, their president won't/their president won't sit next to him (I can't find the article with a fun list of country examples that did just this). Also, I was wondering if we could please generally go back to ICT topics for this list, as someone had earlier asked? Asante everyone, Andrea On 6 December 2011 13:21, samuel ochanji <[email protected]> wrote:
Daktari, I completely agree with you on this. Our media does not set the agenda on global events/issues and give a Kenyan or an African perspective on these issues. Instead it simply regurgitates whatever the global media provides us with.Anything from CNN or New York Times is the default position of the Kenyan media.
------------------------------ *From:* "[email protected]" <[email protected]> *To:* [email protected] *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 6, 2011 6:48 AM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir
Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet.
Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion.
"Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither.
But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo.
He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government."
You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world.
Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident?
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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why is it presumed that when africans think alike with the westerners, or publish views similar to western media, then we are aping them or we have read and been influenced by them? isn't that self demeaning? and how did you, ndemo, know of the Banyamulenge atrocities you allude to except through the same media which you shamefully quote as gospel truth? And isn't Jean Pierre Mbemba charged at the ICC for the atrocities in eastern Congo? Even more, the conclusions you extrapolate from the Financial Times on why Tshisekedi has no foreign backing is a reversal of the writer's argument: the fact that western powers want to back leaders who can first turn around their countries to be peaceful and economically prosperous, but also manipulable to enable them exploit their potential. But to say they do not back Tshisekedi merely because he is his own man, even though it is apparent he is not that popular, is a little overstretched. my arguments against appeasing Sudan are basic but founded on very clear facts. What you are advocating in your winded argument is that the rule of law should be suspended to mollify a dictator in the interest of trade. Well, a lot can be said about that, and history is rich with examples of people who sit pretty and enjoy the oppression of others as long as it benefits them or does not affect their comfort. by the same twisted logic, we should not be in somalia? why? we followed the cue of the international community and stood by as the the country degenerated into a banana republic. now we have rushed in because some tourists were kidnapped. the dividends of this adventure will become apparent in March when a supplementary budget is tabled in the House but was it worth going into Somalia if we are spending over Sh200m a week to keep 3000 troops there? I would love to have you pronounce your opinion on that. the fundamental issue at hand with Sudan should not be lost with futile rationalisation. a court was confronted with a case seeking the arrest of Bashir if he ever sets foot in Kenya. the facts of the law were laid before him. what was he expected to do? according to the wise men in govt, ndemo included, he should have ruled otherwise or somehow found a reason to avoid the verdict he made. so why are we wasting time talking about an independent judiciary? yuck! if that is what machuhi calls "partisan" and "populist emotions" of journalists then he is welcome to propagate his views. but i doubt they will be more than the usual conformist and self preservation arguments - "bend and let it pass" - that never changed the world. repeat: am totally ashamed at the humiliation we as a country are being subjected to by sudan's ultimatums. david _______________ "If my doctor told me I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." — Isaac Asimo, Columbian Author and Scientist _______________ PO Box 3234 00200 Nairobi, Kenya cell: +254 722 517 540 ________________________________ From: samuel ochanji <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir Daktari, I completely agree with you on this. Our media does not set the agenda on global events/issues and give a Kenyan or an African perspective on these issues. Instead it simply regurgitates whatever the global media provides us with.Anything from CNN or New York Times is the default position of the Kenyan media. ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 6:48 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet. Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion. "Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither. But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo. He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government." You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world. Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/sochanji%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmakali%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
My two cent contribution to this discussion is that one, we should be open minded and receive divergent issues without resulting to making demeaning statements about the contributors. Everybody is entitled to their points of view as articulated in our constitution. No body’s arguments is the winning one and this forum is supposed to be a “market of ideas” which we can all contribute to with decorum. The other thing and this is my perspective is that Africa must start to define what democracy is all about without looking to the west because as Winston Churchill observed, democracy was seen as a good option just because other forms of leadership had been tested and weaknesses emerged while the concept of democracy was largely new and untested during his times (historians can correct me on this). I have a very strong reservation to what the west want to prescribe to all and sundry with little respect that other contexts and structures had been in existence and working. Just because they may have had inherent weakness do not however subjugate them. In fact, the reasons why our leaders are in problems is because they have tried to ape western leadership principles without a thorough understanding of them and their contexts, and of course there is the pressure to conform. My take is that unless we change our strategies, we will continue to fail miserably. When western powers invade other countries that is viewed as acceptable yet when African states try to assist their fellow “continent” mates like what Kenya and the other African troops is doing in Somali, it is demonized. I strongly believe that circumstances presented Kenya with an opportunity to assist the Somali govt and not purely because our tourists were attacked. Whether the operation will be successful or not, only time will time but at least what’s critical is that efforts have been made whether belatedly or otherwise. What also troubles me is the way the West will push in their cronies to power in Africa just to ensure that their strategic interests are taken care off with no respect of what the citizens really want. Yet we applause for being democratic! For those have lived abroad, truth be told that there is just a pretext of respect for human rights especially for minorities and other marginalized communities. Even the citizenry struggle to make ends meet as life is so expensive. Coming to the media, a lot is expected and the media should be balanced in presenting the different narratives, being critical of what’s happening locally but also what is happening abroad. Its unfortunate that the western media see nothing good from Africa and when I look at our local media, it appears to most of the time be giving credence to that. Of course our training is western oriented but am challenging ourselves to stretch ourselves a little more and be contextual and relevant in our approach. As a I have mentioned earlier, let’s keep this discussion healthy and lively and maybe from some of the ideas shared here, it could actually inform/influence our thinking and work positively. Jane From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Makali Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 3:11 PM To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir why is it presumed that when africans think alike with the westerners, or publish views similar to western media, then we are aping them or we have read and been influenced by them? isn't that self demeaning? and how did you, ndemo, know of the Banyamulenge atrocities you allude to except through the same media which you shamefully quote as gospel truth? And isn't Jean Pierre Mbemba charged at the ICC for the atrocities in eastern Congo? Even more, the conclusions you extrapolate from the Financial Times on why Tshisekedi has no foreign backing is a reversal of the writer's argument: the fact that western powers want to back leaders who can first turn around their countries to be peaceful and economically prosperous, but also manipulable to enable them exploit their potential. But to say they do not back Tshisekedi merely because he is his own man, even though it is apparent he is not that popular, is a little overstretched. my arguments against appeasing Sudan are basic but founded on very clear facts. What you are advocating in your winded argument is that the rule of law should be suspended to mollify a dictator in the interest of trade. Well, a lot can be said about that, and history is rich with examples of people who sit pretty and enjoy the oppression of others as long as it benefits them or does not affect their comfort. by the same twisted logic, we should not be in somalia? why? we followed the cue of the international community and stood by as the the country degenerated into a banana republic. now we have rushed in because some tourists were kidnapped. the dividends of this adventure will become apparent in March when a supplementary budget is tabled in the House but was it worth going into Somalia if we are spending over Sh200m a week to keep 3000 troops there? I would love to have you pronounce your opinion on that. the fundamental issue at hand with Sudan should not be lost with futile rationalisation. a court was confronted with a case seeking the arrest of Bashir if he ever sets foot in Kenya. the facts of the law were laid before him. what was he expected to do? according to the wise men in govt, ndemo included, he should have ruled otherwise or somehow found a reason to avoid the verdict he made. so why are we wasting time talking about an independent judiciary? yuck! if that is what machuhi calls "partisan" and "populist emotions" of journalists then he is welcome to propagate his views. but i doubt they will be more than the usual conformist and self preservation arguments - "bend and let it pass" - that never changed the world. repeat: am totally ashamed at the humiliation we as a country are being subjected to by sudan's ultimatums. david _______________ "If my doctor told me I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." — Isaac Asimo, Columbian Author and Scientist _______________ PO Box 3234 00200 Nairobi, Kenya cell: +254 722 517 540 _____ From: samuel ochanji <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir Daktari, I completely agree with you on this. Our media does not set the agenda on global events/issues and give a Kenyan or an African perspective on these issues. Instead it simply regurgitates whatever the global media provides us with.Anything from CNN or New York Times is the default position of the Kenyan media. _____ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 6:48 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet. Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion. "Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither. But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo. He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government." You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world. Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/sochanji%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmakali%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hey David, Not sure whether this sounds a little on the harsher side. However, I did not completely understand the PS in his explanation. Again, bear in mind he is a Govt representative. I believe one of the most important virtues that this nation should espouse unwaveringly is a high standing moral conscience. On this score, we cannot even bring ourselves to the level of comparing our country with others, whether in the West or East, some who are thriving on some of the bloodiest conflicts on this continent. We have to set the standard, and blaze the trail for the rest to follow. We have no business for association with either regimes/individuals who show scant respect for the sanctity of human life.., lest they come to that point of owning up to, and renouncing their deeds.. Harry From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Makali Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 3:11 PM To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir why is it presumed that when africans think alike with the westerners, or publish views similar to western media, then we are aping them or we have read and been influenced by them? isn't that self demeaning? and how did you, ndemo, know of the Banyamulenge atrocities you allude to except through the same media which you shamefully quote as gospel truth? And isn't Jean Pierre Mbemba charged at the ICC for the atrocities in eastern Congo? Even more, the conclusions you extrapolate from the Financial Times on why Tshisekedi has no foreign backing is a reversal of the writer's argument: the fact that western powers want to back leaders who can first turn around their countries to be peaceful and economically prosperous, but also manipulable to enable them exploit their potential. But to say they do not back Tshisekedi merely because he is his own man, even though it is apparent he is not that popular, is a little overstretched. my arguments against appeasing Sudan are basic but founded on very clear facts. What you are advocating in your winded argument is that the rule of law should be suspended to mollify a dictator in the interest of trade. Well, a lot can be said about that, and history is rich with examples of people who sit pretty and enjoy the oppression of others as long as it benefits them or does not affect their comfort. by the same twisted logic, we should not be in somalia? why? we followed the cue of the international community and stood by as the the country degenerated into a banana republic. now we have rushed in because some tourists were kidnapped. the dividends of this adventure will become apparent in March when a supplementary budget is tabled in the House but was it worth going into Somalia if we are spending over Sh200m a week to keep 3000 troops there? I would love to have you pronounce your opinion on that. the fundamental issue at hand with Sudan should not be lost with futile rationalisation. a court was confronted with a case seeking the arrest of Bashir if he ever sets foot in Kenya. the facts of the law were laid before him. what was he expected to do? according to the wise men in govt, ndemo included, he should have ruled otherwise or somehow found a reason to avoid the verdict he made. so why are we wasting time talking about an independent judiciary? yuck! if that is what machuhi calls "partisan" and "populist emotions" of journalists then he is welcome to propagate his views. but i doubt they will be more than the usual conformist and self preservation arguments - "bend and let it pass" - that never changed the world. repeat: am totally ashamed at the humiliation we as a country are being subjected to by sudan's ultimatums. david _______________ "If my doctor told me I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." — Isaac Asimo, Columbian Author and Scientist _______________ PO Box 3234 00200 Nairobi, Kenya cell: +254 722 517 540 _____ From: samuel ochanji <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir Daktari, I completely agree with you on this. Our media does not set the agenda on global events/issues and give a Kenyan or an African perspective on these issues. Instead it simply regurgitates whatever the global media provides us with.Anything from CNN or New York Times is the default position of the Kenyan media. _____ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 6:48 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet. Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion. "Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither. But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo. He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government." You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world. Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/sochanji%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmakali%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
My two cent contribution to this discussion is that one, we should be open minded and receive divergent issues without resulting to making demeaning statements about the contributors. Everybody is entitled to their points of view as articulated in our constitution. No body’s arguments is the winning one and this forum is supposed to be a “market of ideas” which we can all contribute to with decorum. The other thing and this is my perspective is that Africa must start to define what democracy is all about without looking to the west because as Winston Churchill observed, democracy was seen as a good option just because other forms of leadership had been tested and weaknesses emerged while the concept of democracy was largely new and untested during his times (historians can correct me on this). I have a very strong reservation to what the west want to prescribe to all and sundry with little respect that other contexts and structures had been in existence and working. Just because they may have had inherent weakness do not however subjugate them. In fact, the reasons why our leaders are in problems is because they have tried to ape western leadership principles without a thorough understanding of them and their contexts, and of course there is the pressure to conform. My take is that unless we change our strategies, we will continue to fail miserably. When western powers invade other countries that is viewed as acceptable yet when African states try to assist their fellow “continent” mates like what Kenya and the other African troops is doing in Somali, it is demonized. I strongly believe that circumstances presented Kenya with an opportunity to assist the Somali govt and not purely because our tourists were attacked. Whether the operation will be successful or not, only time will time but at least what’s critical is that efforts have been made whether belatedly or otherwise. What also troubles me is the way the West will push in their cronies to power in Africa just to ensure that their strategic interests are taken care off with no respect of what the citizens really want. Yet we applause for being democratic! For those have lived abroad, truth be told that there is just a pretext of respect for human rights especially for minorities and other marginalized communities. Even the citizenry struggle to make ends meet as life is so expensive. Coming to the media, a lot is expected and the media should be balanced in presenting the different narratives, being critical of what’s happening locally but also what is happening abroad. Its unfortunate that the western media see nothing good from Africa and when I look at our local media, it appears to most of the time be giving credence to that. Of course our training is western oriented but am challenging ourselves to stretch ourselves a little more and be contextual and relevant in our approach. As a I have mentioned earlier, let’s keep this discussion healthy and lively and maybe from some of the ideas shared here, it could actually inform/influence our thinking and work positively. Jane From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Makali Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 3:11 PM To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir why is it presumed that when africans think alike with the westerners, or publish views similar to western media, then we are aping them or we have read and been influenced by them? isn't that self demeaning? and how did you, ndemo, know of the Banyamulenge atrocities you allude to except through the same media which you shamefully quote as gospel truth? And isn't Jean Pierre Mbemba charged at the ICC for the atrocities in eastern Congo? Even more, the conclusions you extrapolate from the Financial Times on why Tshisekedi has no foreign backing is a reversal of the writer's argument: the fact that western powers want to back leaders who can first turn around their countries to be peaceful and economically prosperous, but also manipulable to enable them exploit their potential. But to say they do not back Tshisekedi merely because he is his own man, even though it is apparent he is not that popular, is a little overstretched. my arguments against appeasing Sudan are basic but founded on very clear facts. What you are advocating in your winded argument is that the rule of law should be suspended to mollify a dictator in the interest of trade. Well, a lot can be said about that, and history is rich with examples of people who sit pretty and enjoy the oppression of others as long as it benefits them or does not affect their comfort. by the same twisted logic, we should not be in somalia? why? we followed the cue of the international community and stood by as the the country degenerated into a banana republic. now we have rushed in because some tourists were kidnapped. the dividends of this adventure will become apparent in March when a supplementary budget is tabled in the House but was it worth going into Somalia if we are spending over Sh200m a week to keep 3000 troops there? I would love to have you pronounce your opinion on that. the fundamental issue at hand with Sudan should not be lost with futile rationalisation. a court was confronted with a case seeking the arrest of Bashir if he ever sets foot in Kenya. the facts of the law were laid before him. what was he expected to do? according to the wise men in govt, ndemo included, he should have ruled otherwise or somehow found a reason to avoid the verdict he made. so why are we wasting time talking about an independent judiciary? yuck! if that is what machuhi calls "partisan" and "populist emotions" of journalists then he is welcome to propagate his views. but i doubt they will be more than the usual conformist and self preservation arguments - "bend and let it pass" - that never changed the world. repeat: am totally ashamed at the humiliation we as a country are being subjected to by sudan's ultimatums. david _______________ "If my doctor told me I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." — Isaac Asimo, Columbian Author and Scientist _______________ PO Box 3234 00200 Nairobi, Kenya cell: +254 722 517 540 _____ From: samuel ochanji <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir Daktari, I completely agree with you on this. Our media does not set the agenda on global events/issues and give a Kenyan or an African perspective on these issues. Instead it simply regurgitates whatever the global media provides us with.Anything from CNN or New York Times is the default position of the Kenyan media. _____ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 6:48 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet. Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion. "Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither. But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo. He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government." You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world. Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/sochanji%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmakali%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
What is the way forward....? Harry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:49 AM To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet. Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion. "Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither. But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo. He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government." You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world. Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/harry%40comtelsys.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Go back to discussing ICT issues on the ICT list? :) On 6 December 2011 13:44, Harry Delano <[email protected]> wrote:
What is the way forward....?
Harry
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:49 AM To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir
Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet.
Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion.
"Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither.
But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo.
He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government."
You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world.
Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident?
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
Hey Andrea, Agreed, though it's clear some issues cannot be cut off from ICT, like the persistent blackouts. It's a joke that flies smack in the face of the stated visions, which could as well be mere pipe dreams if we are not serious in building efficiencies that should get us to such destinations.. We very fast need to de-monopolize energy provision in this country. Does anyone remember "Jambonet".? Harry From: Andrea Bohnstedt [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 1:49 PM To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] RE: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir Go back to discussing ICT issues on the ICT list? :) On 6 December 2011 13:44, Harry Delano <[email protected]> wrote: What is the way forward....? Harry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bharry> [email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:49 AM To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet. Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion. "Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither. But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo. He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government." You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world. Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/harry%40comtelsys.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/andrea.bohnstedt%40rati o-magazine.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com <http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post East Africa careers <http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events
Tell me about it. Second day of the week, second power cut, KPLC know of nothing - ideal conditions for a company that publishes online content. I liked Mugo Kibati's quote in the FT - if you can't get power and sanitation to a plot, then Vision 2030 won't happen. On 6 December 2011 14:27, Harry Delano <[email protected]> wrote:
Hey Andrea,****
** **
Agreed, though it’s clear some issues cannot be cut off from ICT, like the persistent blackouts.****
****
It’s a joke that flies smack in the face of the stated visions, which could as well be mere pipe ****
dreams if we are not serious in building efficiencies that should get us to such destinations..****
** **
We very fast need to de-monopolize energy provision in this country. Does anyone remember****
“Jambonet”…?****
** **
Harry****
** **
*From:* Andrea Bohnstedt [mailto:[email protected]] *Sent:* Tuesday, December 06, 2011 1:49 PM *To:* [email protected] *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] RE: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir****
** **
Go back to discussing ICT issues on the ICT list? :) ****
On 6 December 2011 13:44, Harry Delano <[email protected]> wrote:****
What is the way forward....?
Harry
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:49 AM To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir
Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet.
Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion.
"Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither.
But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo.
He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government."
You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world.
Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident?
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/harry%40comtelsys.co.ke
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/andrea.bohnstedt%40rati...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322
www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
****
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
Dear Andrea and all We are very pleased to announce that Mugo Kibati will join the list as a guest discussant for a couple of days to discuss and respond to the issues raised regarding our vision 2030. Thanks to P.S Ndemo for making this happen. It would be great if we could list a number of issues/questions/ideas we would like to put forward. Grace Githaiga will moderate the discussions Thank you Best Alice
Tell me about it. Second day of the week, second power cut, KPLC know of nothing - ideal conditions for a company that publishes online content.
I liked Mugo Kibati's quote in the FT - if you can't get power and sanitation to a plot, then Vision 2030 won't happen.
On 6 December 2011 14:27, Harry Delano <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hey Andrea,
Agreed, though it's clear some issues cannot be cut off from ICT, like the persistent blackouts.
It's a joke that flies smack in the face of the stated visions, which could as well be mere pipe
dreams if we are not serious in building efficiencies that should get us to such destinations..
We very fast need to de-monopolize energy provision in this country. Does anyone remember
"Jambonet"...?
Harry
*From:*Andrea Bohnstedt [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>]
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 06, 2011 1:49 PM *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] RE: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir
Go back to discussing ICT issues on the ICT list? :)
On 6 December 2011 13:44, Harry Delano <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
What is the way forward....?
Harry
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bharry>[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:49 AM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir
Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet.
Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion.
"Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither.
But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo.
He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government."
You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world.
Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident?
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> Sender: [email protected]: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322
www.ratio-magazine.com <http://www.ratio-magazine.com> Find/post East Africa careers <http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events <http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322
www.ratio-magazine.com <http://www.ratio-magazine.com> Find/post East Africa careers <http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events <http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Good morning Listers In preparation of our e-meeting with Mugo Kibati, and in response to our request to you to suggest issues/questions and ideas that we would like to put forward, I kindly request you to look at the Vision 2030 website to refresh yourself of the vision, the pillars and the foundation, and see if we could generate issues of concern from any of any of these areas. 1. Vision http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/vision 2. Foundations of vision 2010 http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars/index/macro_enablers 3. Economic (tourism, agriculture, trade, Informed technology enabled services etc.) http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars 4. Social ( education, health, gender and youth, social development etc.) http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars/index/social 5. Political (rule of law, electoral and political processes, transparency and accountability etc). http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars/index/political Thank you Harry Delano. Details of when we begin this debate and the duration will follow later in the day. A great day to all of you. RgdsGG ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you have the strength to survive, you have the power to succeed. Life is all about choices we make depending upon the situation we are in. Go forth and rule the World! Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 19:35:17 +0300 From: [email protected] Subject: [kictanet] Mugo Kibati: our first guest discussant CC: [email protected] To: [email protected] Dear Andrea and all We are very pleased to announce that Mugo Kibati will join the list as a guest discussant for a couple of days to discuss and respond to the issues raised regarding our vision 2030. Thanks to P.S Ndemo for making this happen. It would be great if we could list a number of issues/questions/ideas we would like to put forward. Grace Githaiga will moderate the discussions Thank you Best Alice Tell me about it. Second day of the week, second power cut, KPLC know of nothing - ideal conditions for a company that publishes online content. I liked Mugo Kibati's quote in the FT - if you can't get power and sanitation to a plot, then Vision 2030 won't happen.
Hi, Please remember that Mugo Kibati's appointment has been challenged by COSEK who are active members of this forum. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2011, 3:15 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Mugo Kibati: our first guest discussant Good morning Listers In preparation of our e-meeting with Mugo Kibati, and in response to our request to you to suggest issues/questions and ideas that we would like to put forward, I kindly request you to look at the Vision 2030 website to refresh yourself of the vision, the pillars and the foundation, and see if we could generate issues of concern from any of any of these areas. 1. Vision http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/vision 2. Foundations of vision 2010 http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars/index/macro_enablers 3. Economic (tourism, agriculture, trade, Informed technology enabled services etc.) http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars 4. Social ( education, health, gender and youth, social development etc.) http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars/index/social 5. Political (rule of law, electoral and political processes, transparency and accountability etc). http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars/index/political Thank you Harry Delano. Details of when we begin this debate and the duration will follow later in the day. A great day to all of you. Rgds GG ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you have the strength to survive, you have the power to succeed. Life is all about choices we make depending upon the situation we are in. Go forth and rule the World! ________________________________ Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 19:35:17 +0300 From: [email protected] Subject: [kictanet] Mugo Kibati: our first guest discussant CC: [email protected] To: [email protected] Dear Andrea and all We are very pleased to announce that Mugo Kibati will join the list as a guest discussant for a couple of days to discuss and respond to the issues raised regarding our vision 2030. Thanks to P.S Ndemo for making this happen. It would be great if we could list a number of issues/questions/ideas we would like to put forward. Grace Githaiga will moderate the discussions Thank you Best Alice Tell me about it. Second day of the week, second power cut, KPLC know of nothing - ideal conditions for a company that publishes online content.
I liked Mugo Kibati's quote in the FT - if you can't get power and
sanitation to a plot, then Vision 2030 won't happen.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.u... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Yawe, Do you think that this might then be a good opportunity for COFEK (I believe there was a typo error on your message) to respectfully ask him some questions?RgdsGrace Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 05:33:06 +0000 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [kictanet] Mugo Kibati: our first guest discussant To: [email protected] CC: [email protected] Hi, Please remember that Mugo Kibati's appointment has been challenged by COSEK who are active members of this forum. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2011, 3:15 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Mugo Kibati: our first guest discussant Good morning Listers In preparation of our e-meeting with Mugo Kibati, and in response to our request to you to suggest issues/questions and ideas that we would like to put forward, I kindly request you to look at the Vision 2030 website to refresh yourself of the vision, the pillars and the foundation, and see if we could generate issues of concern from any of any of these areas. 1. Vision http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/vision 2. Foundations of vision 2010 http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars/index/macro_enablers 3. Economic (tourism, agriculture, trade, Informed technology enabled services etc.) http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars 4. Social ( education, health, gender and youth, social development etc.) http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars/index/social 5. Political (rule of law, electoral and political processes, transparency and accountability etc). http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars/index/political Thank you Harry Delano. Details of when we begin this debate and the duration will follow later in the day. A great day to all of you. RgdsGG ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you have the strength to survive, you have the power to succeed. Life is all about choices we make depending upon the situation we are in. Go forth and rule the World! Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 19:35:17 +0300 From: [email protected] Subject: [kictanet] Mugo Kibati: our first guest discussant CC: [email protected] To: [email protected] Dear Andrea and all We are very pleased to announce that Mugo Kibati will join the list as a guest discussant for a couple of days to discuss and respond to the issues raised regarding our vision 2030. Thanks to P.S Ndemo for making this happen. It would be great if we could list a number of issues/questions/ideas we would like to put forward. Grace Githaiga will moderate the discussions Thank you Best Alice Tell me about it. Second day of the week, second power cut, KPLC know of nothing - ideal conditions for a company that publishes online content. I liked Mugo Kibati's quote in the FT - if you can't get power and sanitation to a plot, then Vision 2030 won't happen. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.u... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@ Grace It would be a good opportunity but the issue is if they will keep their questions civil and concentrate on the topic of discussion. On second thought Kibati is a big boy he should be able to take care of himself, bring him out to play. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2011, 11:44 Subject: RE: [kictanet] Mugo Kibati: our first guest discussant Yawe, Do you think that this might then be a good opportunity for COFEK (I believe there was a typo error on your message) to respectfullyask him some questions?Rgds Grace ________________________________ Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 05:33:06 +0000 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [kictanet] Mugo Kibati: our first guest discussant To: [email protected] CC: [email protected] Hi, Please remember that Mugo Kibati's appointment has been challenged by COSEK who are active members of this forum. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2011, 3:15 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Mugo Kibati: our first guest discussant Good morning Listers In preparation of our e-meeting with Mugo Kibati, and in response to our request to you to suggest issues/questions and ideas that we would like to put forward, I kindly request you to look at the Vision 2030 website to refresh yourself of the vision, the pillars and the foundation, and see if we could generate issues of concern from any of any of these areas. 1. Vision http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/vision 2. Foundations of vision 2010 http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars/index/macro_enablers 3. Economic (tourism, agriculture, trade, Informed technology enabled services etc.) http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars 4. Social ( education, health, gender and youth, social development etc.) http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars/index/social 5. Political (rule of law, electoral and political processes, transparency and accountability etc). http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars/index/political Thank you Harry Delano. Details of when we begin this debate and the duration will follow later in the day. A great day to all of you. Rgds GG ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you have the strength to survive, you have the power to succeed. Life is all about choices we make depending upon the situation we are in. Go forth and rule the World! ________________________________ Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 19:35:17 +0300 From: [email protected] Subject: [kictanet] Mugo Kibati: our first guest discussant CC: [email protected] To: [email protected] Dear Andrea and all We are very pleased to announce that Mugo Kibati will join the list as a guest discussant for a couple of days to discuss and respond to the issues raised regarding our vision 2030. Thanks to P.S Ndemo for making this happen. It would be great if we could list a number of issues/questions/ideas we would like to put forward. Grace Githaiga will moderate the discussions Thank you Best Alice Tell me about it. Second day of the week, second power cut, KPLC know of nothing - ideal conditions for a company that publishes online content.
I liked Mugo Kibati's quote in the FT - if you can't get power and
sanitation to a plot, then Vision 2030 won't happen.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.u... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hey Grace, Thanks, actually I share your sentiment, and have been on the website checking out the Key pillars and the enablers Dear Mr. Mugo Kibati, As a vision for this country, we congratulate the team for being bold. I believe the forum here will focus heavily on the ICT Sub-sector. But, just as the Vision 2030 correctly correlates interdependence between different projects on the map, we will not hesitate to point out that ICT needs the rest as enablers, just as the rest needs it. My first question is, what are the clear bench marks to achieve the stated vision for the country, looking at the project pillars listed? How do we measure and audit achievements to date to ascertain whether this ship is on course..? I note that, under the Macro Enablers section, the project in which we have had keen interest falls under the heading " <http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/projects/details/Macro_enablers/2> Energy Generation of 2300MW and distributed at competitive prices" While the endeavor towards generation of enough power, for adequate, quality, reliable and affordable energy is laudable and ongoing, we urgently need to address the question of "distribution" of the same to go lock-in-step with these valiant efforts. I believe Energy distribution should be listed as a "Macro-Enabler", then this way we can now address the question of the monopolized aspect of it that currently is almost crippling and reducing the project to naught, at the expense of progress in other project areas. Left unchecked, a monopolized energy distribution network on which everything else hinges as we go forward, could as well be equated to a "national security disaster-in-awaiting". Can the team review the objectives in this area to focus heavily on this aspect also, and propose, pursue and lobby unrelentingly towards a de-monopolized energy distribution design. Let this nation have the benefit of redundancy in this area. Short of this, we are left at the mercy of the current national distributor. At the very best, it remains a cog in the wheel of this Vision2030. I would wish to draw the team Vision2030 to the tremendous success that we've all witnessed in the Telecommunication subsector, since liberalization was introduced from around 2002/3 and competitiveness brought about the huge dividends that we now reap. We herald this as one of the greatest turning points in this industry. Let's go that route in the energy subsector. End of my first presentation. Harry From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Grace Githaiga Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 3:15 AM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [kictanet] Mugo Kibati: our first guest discussant Good morning Listers In preparation of our e-meeting with Mugo Kibati, and in response to our request to you to suggest issues/questions and ideas that we would like to put forward, I kindly request you to look at the Vision 2030 website to refresh yourself of the vision, the pillars and the foundation, and see if we could generate issues of concern from any of any of these areas. 1. Vision http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/vision 2. Foundations of vision 2010 http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars/index/macro_enablers 3. Economic (tourism, agriculture, trade, Informed technology enabled services etc.) http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars 4. Social ( education, health, gender and youth, social development etc.) http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars/index/social 5. Political (rule of law, electoral and political processes, transparency and accountability etc). http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/pillars/index/political Thank you Harry Delano. Details of when we begin this debate and the duration will follow later in the day. A great day to all of you. Rgds GG ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- If you have the strength to survive, you have the power to succeed. Life is all about choices we make depending upon the situation we are in. Go forth and rule the World! _____ Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 19:35:17 +0300 From: [email protected] Subject: [kictanet] Mugo Kibati: our first guest discussant CC: [email protected] To: [email protected] Dear Andrea and all We are very pleased to announce that Mugo Kibati will join the list as a guest discussant for a couple of days to discuss and respond to the issues raised regarding our vision 2030. Thanks to P.S Ndemo for making this happen. It would be great if we could list a number of issues/questions/ideas we would like to put forward. Grace Githaiga will moderate the discussions Thank you Best Alice Tell me about it. Second day of the week, second power cut, KPLC know of nothing - ideal conditions for a company that publishes online content. I liked Mugo Kibati's quote in the FT - if you can't get power and sanitation to a plot, then Vision 2030 won't happen.
Andrea, I had thought as much too a while back had been over-ruled. Maybe we are digressing too much. Indeed I was now beginning to shop for another ICT list... Wherease we may not divorce ICTs from regular life (politics, economics, religion, etc) I really wish Listers could at least pretend to show the connection with ICTs...whenever they get off topic. walu. --- On Tue, 12/6/11, Andrea Bohnstedt <[email protected]> wrote: From: Andrea Bohnstedt <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir To: [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2011, 1:49 PM Go back to discussing ICT issues on the ICT list? :) On 6 December 2011 13:44, Harry Delano <[email protected]> wrote: What is the way forward....? Harry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:49 AM To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet. Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion. "Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither. But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo. He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government." You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world. Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/harry%40comtelsys.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/andrea.bohnstedt%40rati... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Walubengo, I respect your decision. Will raise pure ICT issues. Is Media ICT? If not then I will not respond to David. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 07:23:49 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Bwana PS, Indeed Media is part of ICT. However, the context under discussion seems to get too political if not personal rather than ICT. And so I appreciate if you dont reply to Makali or do so over a cup of tea in town ;-) regards, walu. --- On Tue, 12/6/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? To: "Walubengo J" <[email protected]>, [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2011, 6:30 PM Walubengo, I respect your decision. Will raise pure ICT issues. Is Media ICT? If not then I will not respond to David. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 07:23:49 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Ok. I respect your judgment. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 08:08:05 To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? Bwana PS, Indeed Media is part of ICT. However, the context under discussion seems to get too political if not personal rather than ICT. And so I appreciate if you dont reply to Makali or do so over a cup of tea in town ;-) regards, walu. --- On Tue, 12/6/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? To: "Walubengo J" <[email protected]>, [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2011, 6:30 PM Walubengo, I respect your decision. Will raise pure ICT issues. Is Media ICT? If not then I will not respond to David. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 07:23:49 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Or, pragmatic suggestion, we finish this discussion thread, and with future posts, everyone has a quick little think whether it's ICT or ICT related before posting? Maybe Dr Ndemo should write a blog for ICT and non-ICT issues. Or have a Facebook page. That's both an ICT suggestion and will make all those happy who want to continue non-ICT discussions with him :) On 6 December 2011 19:27, <[email protected]> wrote:
** Ok. I respect your judgment.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry® ------------------------------ *From: * Walubengo J <[email protected]> *Date: *Tue, 6 Dec 2011 08:08:05 -0800 (PST) *To: *<[email protected]>; < [email protected]> *Cc: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic?
Bwana PS,
Indeed Media is part of ICT. However, the context under discussion seems to get too political if not personal rather than ICT. And so I appreciate if you dont reply to Makali or do so over a cup of tea in town ;-)
regards, walu.
--- On *Tue, 12/6/11, [email protected] <[email protected]>* wrote:
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? To: "Walubengo J" <[email protected]>, kictanet-bounces+bitange= [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2011, 6:30 PM
Walubengo, I respect your decision. Will raise pure ICT issues. Is Media ICT? If not then I will not respond to David.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <[email protected] <http://mc/[email protected]>> Sender: [email protected]<http://mc/[email protected]>: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 07:23:49 To: <[email protected] <http://mc/[email protected]>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]<http://mc/[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic?
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I like Dr. Ndemo's thinking. It usually has thrilling paradigm shift. I wish he can write a book on "who cursed Africa". Better still, he can get a column in our dailies, especially The East African. His trail of thought is similar to that of Generali Ulimwengu and Onyango Obo, if not better. Walubengo, I don't think it is easy to divorce ICT with politics. "Managing IT Governance" is a fundamental aspect in today's enterprise, and the CTO and CIO cannot drive that process well without the innings of politics. Governance means to direct and control the actions or conduct of others by using rules and controls set by an authority. "Lets not forget, POLITICS is an agenda and often includes deceit, lies or willful omission. Self serving agendas are pushed ahead of the best interest of society" - CISA study guide, 3rd edition by David Cannon. That is a quote from not a POLITICAL SCIENCE book but an IT book. On 06/12/2011, Walubengo J <[email protected]> wrote:
Bwana PS,
Indeed Media is part of ICT. However, the context under discussion seems to get too political if not personal rather than ICT. And so I appreciate if you dont reply to Makali or do so over a cup of tea in town ;-)
regards, walu.
--- On Tue, 12/6/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? To: "Walubengo J" <[email protected]>, [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2011, 6:30 PM
Walubengo, I respect your decision. Will raise pure ICT issues. Is Media ICT? If not then I will not respond to David.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 07:23:49 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic?
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva For Business Development Transworld Computer Channels Cel: 0722402248 twitter.com/lordmwesh transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know
Hi Walu and all ICTs can not be discussed in isolation Wish to share this from a global Internet Governance List "Wikipedia: I know everything! Google: I have everything! Facebook: I know everybody Internet: Without me you all nothing. Electricity: Keep talking @£*&*& ;-)" Difficult to discuss ICTs without taking into consideration electricity, and other basic's and generally human development, livelihood issues, etc As for the Bashir discussion, I agree with Makali, that "It is unfortunate that the government should be speaking out of turn with our new Supreme Law and the reality of the new Kenya" and our new constitution. What will happen with ICT related provisions like Freedom of Information? Best Alice
Andrea,
I had thought as much too a while back had been over-ruled. Maybe we are digressing too much. Indeed I was now beginning to shop for another ICT list...
Wherease we may not divorce ICTs from regular life (politics, economics, religion, etc) I really wish Listers could at least pretend to show the connection with ICTs...whenever they get off topic.
walu.
--- On *Tue, 12/6/11, Andrea Bohnstedt /<[email protected]>/* wrote:
From: Andrea Bohnstedt <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir To: [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2011, 1:49 PM
Go back to discussing ICT issues on the ICT list? :)
On 6 December 2011 13:44, Harry Delano <[email protected] </mc/[email protected]>> wrote:
What is the way forward....?
Harry
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] </mc/[email protected]> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry </mc/compose?to=kictanet-bounces%2Bharry>[email protected] </mc/[email protected]>] On Behalf Of [email protected] </mc/[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:49 AM To: [email protected] </mc/[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir
Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet.
Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion.
"Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither.
But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo.
He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government."
You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world.
Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident?
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected] </mc/[email protected]>> Sender: [email protected]: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected] </mc/[email protected]>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected] </mc/[email protected]>> Subject: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322
www.ratio-magazine.com <http://www.ratio-magazine.com> Find/post East Africa careers <http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events <http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
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On 12/6/11, Alice Munyua <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Walu and all
ICTs can not be discussed in isolation
Agreed.
Wish to share this from a global Internet Governance List "Wikipedia: I know everything! Google: I have everything! Facebook: I know everybody Internet: Without me you all nothing. Electricity: Keep talking @£*&*& ;-)"
;-)
Difficult to discuss ICTs without taking into consideration electricity, and other basic's and generally human development, livelihood issues, etc
Yes, but can we keep God out of the mix please? I don't expect to get Scripture from an ICT4 list! -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
I understand some people would like us to arrest Bashir to uphold the constitution. Is the constitution there to serve Kenyans or are Kenyans there to serve the constitution? I do not see business people agreeing easily with civil society activists. Of what benefit is it for Kenya to chase after Bashir? On Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 07:26 PM, Alice Munyua wrote: Hi Walu and all ICTs can not be discussed in isolation Wish to share this from a global Internet Governance List "Wikipedia: I know everything! Google: I have everything! Facebook: I know everybody Internet: Without me you all nothing. Electricity: Keep talking @£*&*& ;-)" Difficult to discuss ICTs without taking into consideration electricity, and other basic's and generally human development, livelihood issues, etc As for the Bashir discussion, I agree with Makali, that "It is unfortunate that the government should be speaking out of turn with our new Supreme Law and the reality of the new Kenya" and our new constitution. What will happen with ICT related provisions like Freedom of Information? Best Alice Andrea, I had thought as much too a while back had been over-ruled. Maybe we are digressing too much. Indeed I was now beginning to shop for another ICT list... Wherease we may not divorce ICTs from regular life (politics, economics, religion, etc) I really wish Listers could at least pretend to show the connection with ICTs...whenever they get off topic. walu. --- On Tue, 12/6/11, Andrea Bohnstedt [1]<[email protected]> wrote: From: Andrea Bohnstedt [2]<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir To: [3][email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" [4]<[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2011, 1:49 PM Go back to discussing ICT issues on the ICT list? :) On 6 December 2011 13:44, Harry Delano <[email protected]> wrote: What is the way forward....? Harry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]. or.ke] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:49 AM To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet. Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion. "Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither. But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo. He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government." You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world. Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]> Sender: [5][email protected] te: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] [6]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at [7]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitang e%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] [8]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at [9]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/harry% 40comtelsys.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] [10]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at [11]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/andre a.bohnstedt%40ratio-magazine.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- [12]Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 [13]www.ratio-magazine.com [14]Find/post East Africa careers [15]Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] [16]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at [17]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40 yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [18][email protected] [19]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at [20]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mail man/options/kictanet/alice%40apc.org The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform fo r people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regula tion. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector i n support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors onl ine that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, sh are knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do no t spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/ options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform fo r people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regula tion. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector i n support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors onl ine that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, sh are knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do no t spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected] 3. mailto:[email protected] 4. mailto:[email protected] 5. mailto:[email protected]: 6. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet 7. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke 8. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet 9. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/harry%40comtelsys.co.ke 10. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet 11. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/andrea.bohnstedt%40rati... 12. http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt 13. http://www.ratio-magazine.com/ 14. http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php 15. http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php 16. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet 17. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com 18. mailto:[email protected] 19. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet 20. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alice%40apc.org
Walubengo, Yesterday we spent a great deal of time discussing how technology will impact governance in the days a head. We heard arguments from leading social scientists, economists, politicians and journalists. Then in my break I read your post on refocusing our discussions around IT issues. I have spent the night reflecting on this and now I am a bit confused. What do we mean when we say ICT is cross cutting? What is content in ICT terms? Can we use ICT as a tool for development? And what is development? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 07:23:49 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Dr. Ndemo, What is the demography of users in this forum? Most are CEOs, heads of advocacy groups, journalists, techies, e.t.c. These are people most inclined to gravitate towards politics. That's why political threads attract so many responses. I don't see the need to pacify political comments. Its part of our life. And ICT is at the center of politics On 07/12/2011, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
Walubengo, Yesterday we spent a great deal of time discussing how technology will impact governance in the days a head. We heard arguments from leading social scientists, economists, politicians and journalists.
Then in my break I read your post on refocusing our discussions around IT issues. I have spent the night reflecting on this and now I am a bit confused. What do we mean when we say ICT is cross cutting? What is content in ICT terms? Can we use ICT as a tool for development? And what is development?
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 07:23:49 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic?
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva For Business Development Transworld Computer Channels Cel: 0722402248 twitter.com/lordmwesh transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know
Dr. Ndemo, All I agree it is a very thin line that we have to strive to balance on. ICT is and should be cross cutting into socio-economic and political spheres. But the way I see it is for the list is as follows: 1. Pure Politcs: "Why its wrong for Kenya to Pacify Bashir": then followed by discussions for and against the move to pacify Bashir. Many vibrant lists exist for this type of conversations e.g http://www.mashada.com/ 2. ICTs and Politics "How Media is (mis?)leading the Masses in the Bashir Case": then followed by discussions on how this could be propagated or curtailed using new media?(FB, Twitter, etc). Obviously this is the "boring" option but it is what KICTAnet is/was about ref: http://www.kictanet.or.ke/ I could be wrong but option 2 is they way I have always viewed this list. Another example. 1. Pure Ranting. "No Fuel, No Electricity, No Water". Again, many lists exists elsewhere to ventilate on this. Indeed I have quite ventilated on this on my twitter handle @jwalu. But have a look at point 2 below 2. ICTS and Fuel, Electricity, Water, -What ICT tools exists to prevent persistent shortages in Fuel, Power, Water etc? Obviously this again is probably the "boring" option but closer to the KICTAnet mission http://www.kictanet.or.ke/ But that was the thinking 8yrs ago, maybe what Listers are saying is that they want this to change and hey, I cannot stop that since it is about democracy and what the majority want. But I can remind you that this list is both local and international and unless contributors seek to bring out the ICT connection, quite a bit of Listers are likely to seek a way out. walu. --- On Wed, 12/7/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? To: "Walubengo J" <[email protected]>, [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:41 AM Walubengo, Yesterday we spent a great deal of time discussing how technology will impact governance in the days a head. We heard arguments from leading social scientists, economists, politicians and journalists. Then in my break I read your post on refocusing our discussions around IT issues. I have spent the night reflecting on this and now I am a bit confused. What do we mean when we say ICT is cross cutting? What is content in ICT terms? Can we use ICT as a tool for development? And what is development? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 07:23:49 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Walubengo, Here is what I think. Technology can indeed help solve many of the problems that you refer to as pure ranting. Problems are actually opportunities. Imagine if we create an application that automatically sends an SMS to KPLC every time the power goes off. Another application to read the meter and synchronize it with billing such that the customer gets an alert before disconnection. Develop a querry system to compare bills from the local area. Use geo-sensing to determine consumption patterns. This is how we can create efficiencies and create jobs. We can also clean our environment by use of clean power. Our sewage in Kariobamngi is a good source for biogas. We can use it too to water the Muthaiga Golf course. As I write this we are discussing how big data can impact policy. Our foreign policy needs to come from evidence base, that is big data on trade, environment, diplomacy. We need data to inform us the long term effect to our national interests if we vary any of the variables stated. Big data analytics is pure IT but formulation of relevant variables is politicking. We cannot hide behind our inadequacies. What we need are volunteers to take any debate here and relate it to IT and how technology can help solve the problem. This is the basis of innovation. It is dangerous to avoid confronting issues. Steve Jobs died before making discoveries on technology and speech. Our failure to critically this how technology can help reduce hate messages will hurt us in the days to come. We are not even able to condemn bad content yet we promote content as a driver of ICT growth. Kictanet has just requested to have Mugo as guest discussant yet ICT is a small aspect of the Vision. In my view you need a radical review of this noble initiative. Our discussions must lead to some specific objective. We can use the forum to spur innovation. Simple issues like cost of broadband, customer service and other mundane issues will not impact on our desired future (that is if we all understand it but I leave Mugo to articulate it). Have a wonderful day. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 01:29:09 To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-reality check Dr. Ndemo, All I agree it is a very thin line that we have to strive to balance on. ICT is and should be cross cutting into socio-economic and political spheres. But the way I see it is for the list is as follows: 1. Pure Politcs: "Why its wrong for Kenya to Pacify Bashir": then followed by discussions for and against the move to pacify Bashir. Many vibrant lists exist for this type of conversations e.g http://www.mashada.com/ 2. ICTs and Politics "How Media is (mis?)leading the Masses in the Bashir Case": then followed by discussions on how this could be propagated or curtailed using new media?(FB, Twitter, etc). Obviously this is the "boring" option but it is what KICTAnet is/was about ref: http://www.kictanet.or.ke/ I could be wrong but option 2 is they way I have always viewed this list. Another example. 1. Pure Ranting. "No Fuel, No Electricity, No Water". Again, many lists exists elsewhere to ventilate on this. Indeed I have quite ventilated on this on my twitter handle @jwalu. But have a look at point 2 below 2. ICTS and Fuel, Electricity, Water, -What ICT tools exists to prevent persistent shortages in Fuel, Power, Water etc? Obviously this again is probably the "boring" option but closer to the KICTAnet mission http://www.kictanet.or.ke/ But that was the thinking 8yrs ago, maybe what Listers are saying is that they want this to change and hey, I cannot stop that since it is about democracy and what the majority want. But I can remind you that this list is both local and international and unless contributors seek to bring out the ICT connection, quite a bit of Listers are likely to seek a way out. walu. --- On Wed, 12/7/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? To: "Walubengo J" <[email protected]>, [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:41 AM Walubengo, Yesterday we spent a great deal of time discussing how technology will impact governance in the days a head. We heard arguments from leading social scientists, economists, politicians and journalists. Then in my break I read your post on refocusing our discussions around IT issues. I have spent the night reflecting on this and now I am a bit confused. What do we mean when we say ICT is cross cutting? What is content in ICT terms? Can we use ICT as a tool for development? And what is development? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 07:23:49 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Dr. Ndemo, +1 (I agree) walu. nb: by the way, where is this Mugo Kibati? Did Yawe knock him out before round 1? --- On Wed, 12/7/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-reality check To: "Walubengo J" <[email protected]>, [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 1:15 PM Walubengo, Here is what I think. Technology can indeed help solve many of the problems that you refer to as pure ranting. Problems are actually opportunities. Imagine if we create an application that automatically sends an SMS to KPLC every time the power goes off. Another application to read the meter and synchronize it with billing such that the customer gets an alert before disconnection. Develop a querry system to compare bills from the local area. Use geo-sensing to determine consumption patterns. This is how we can create efficiencies and create jobs. We can also clean our environment by use of clean power. Our sewage in Kariobamngi is a good source for biogas. We can use it too to water the Muthaiga Golf course. As I write this we are discussing how big data can impact policy. Our foreign policy needs to come from evidence base, that is big data on trade, environment, diplomacy. We need data to inform us the long term effect to our national interests if we vary any of the variables stated. Big data analytics is pure IT but formulation of relevant variables is politicking. We cannot hide behind our inadequacies. What we need are volunteers to take any debate here and relate it to IT and how technology can help solve the problem. This is the basis of innovation. It is dangerous to avoid confronting issues. Steve Jobs died before making discoveries on technology and speech. Our failure to critically this how technology can help reduce hate messages will hurt us in the days to come. We are not even able to condemn bad content yet we promote content as a driver of ICT growth. Kictanet has just requested to have Mugo as guest discussant yet ICT is a small aspect of the Vision. In my view you need a radical review of this noble initiative. Our discussions must lead to some specific objective. We can use the forum to spur innovation. Simple issues like cost of broadband, customer service and other mundane issues will not impact on our desired future (that is if we all understand it but I leave Mugo to articulate it). Have a wonderful day. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry®From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 01:29:09 -0800 (PST)To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]>Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-reality check Dr. Ndemo, All I agree it is a very thin line that we have to strive to balance on. ICT is and should be cross cutting into socio-economic and political spheres. But the way I see it is for the list is as follows: 1. Pure Politcs: "Why its wrong for Kenya to Pacify Bashir": then followed by discussions for and against the move to pacify Bashir. Many vibrant lists exist for this type of conversations e.g http://www.mashada.com/ 2. ICTs and Politics "How Media is (mis?)leading the Masses in the Bashir Case": then followed by discussions on how this could be propagated or curtailed using new media?(FB, Twitter, etc). Obviously this is the "boring" option but it is what KICTAnet is/was about ref: http://www.kictanet.or.ke/ I could be wrong but option 2 is they way I have always viewed this list. Another example. 1. Pure Ranting. "No Fuel, No Electricity, No Water". Again, many lists exists elsewhere to ventilate on this. Indeed I have quite ventilated on this on my twitter handle @jwalu. But have a look at point 2 below 2. ICTS and Fuel, Electricity, Water, -What ICT tools exists to prevent persistent shortages in Fuel, Power, Water etc? Obviously this again is probably the "boring" option but closer to the KICTAnet mission http://www.kictanet.or.ke/ But that was the thinking 8yrs ago, maybe what Listers are saying is that they want this to change and hey, I cannot stop that since it is about democracy and what the majority want. But I can remind you that this list is both local and international and unless contributors seek to bring out the ICT connection, quite a bit of Listers are likely to seek a way out. walu. --- On Wed, 12/7/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? To: "Walubengo J" <[email protected]>, [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:41 AM Walubengo, Yesterday we spent a great deal of time discussing how technology will impact governance in the days a head. We heard arguments from leading social scientists, economists, politicians and journalists. Then in my break I read your post on refocusing our discussions around IT issues. I have spent the night reflecting on this and now I am a bit confused. What do we mean when we say ICT is cross cutting? What is content in ICT terms? Can we use ICT as a tool for development? And what is development? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 07:23:49 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Listers, I concur that there is need to keep the discussions on ICT Related issues. Keep the main thing, the main thing. A lot of the ranting, in my opinion, is obnoxious. It sound more like a whistle blowing forum from disgruntled customers. Etinick On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Walubengo J <[email protected]> wrote:
Dr. Ndemo,
+1 (I agree)
walu. nb: by the way, where is this Mugo Kibati? Did Yawe knock him out before round 1?
--- On *Wed, 12/7/11, [email protected] <[email protected]>* wrote:
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-reality check
To: "Walubengo J" <[email protected]>, kictanet-bounces+bitange= [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 1:15 PM
Walubengo, Here is what I think.
Technology can indeed help solve many of the problems that you refer to as pure ranting. Problems are actually opportunities. Imagine if we create an application that automatically sends an SMS to KPLC every time the power goes off. Another application to read the meter and synchronize it with billing such that the customer gets an alert before disconnection. Develop a querry system to compare bills from the local area. Use geo-sensing to determine consumption patterns.
This is how we can create efficiencies and create jobs. We can also clean our environment by use of clean power. Our sewage in Kariobamngi is a good source for biogas. We can use it too to water the Muthaiga Golf course.
As I write this we are discussing how big data can impact policy. Our foreign policy needs to come from evidence base, that is big data on trade, environment, diplomacy. We need data to inform us the long term effect to our national interests if we vary any of the variables stated. Big data analytics is pure IT but formulation of relevant variables is politicking.
We cannot hide behind our inadequacies. What we need are volunteers to take any debate here and relate it to IT and how technology can help solve the problem. This is the basis of innovation. It is dangerous to avoid confronting issues.
Steve Jobs died before making discoveries on technology and speech. Our failure to critically this how technology can help reduce hate messages will hurt us in the days to come. We are not even able to condemn bad content yet we promote content as a driver of ICT growth.
Kictanet has just requested to have Mugo as guest discussant yet ICT is a small aspect of the Vision.
In my view you need a radical review of this noble initiative. Our discussions must lead to some specific objective. We can use the forum to spur innovation. Simple issues like cost of broadband, customer service and other mundane issues will not impact on our desired future (that is if we all understand it but I leave Mugo to articulate it).
Have a wonderful day.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry® ------------------------------ *From: *Walubengo J <[email protected]> *Date: *Wed, 7 Dec 2011 01:29:09 -0800 (PST) *To: *<[email protected]>; < [email protected]> *Cc: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-reality check
Dr. Ndemo, All
I agree it is a very thin line that we have to strive to balance on. ICT is and should be cross cutting into socio-economic and political spheres. But the way I see it is for the list is as follows:
1. Pure Politcs: "Why its wrong for Kenya to Pacify Bashir": then followed by discussions for and against the move to pacify Bashir. Many vibrant lists exist for this type of conversations e.g http://www.mashada.com/
2. ICTs and Politics "How Media is (mis?)leading the Masses in the Bashir Case": then followed by discussions on how this could be propagated or curtailed using new media?(FB, Twitter, etc). Obviously this is the "boring" option but it is what KICTAnet is/was about ref: http://www.kictanet.or.ke/
I could be wrong but option 2 is they way I have always viewed this list. Another example.
1. Pure Ranting. "No Fuel, No Electricity, No Water". Again, many lists exists elsewhere to ventilate on this. Indeed I have quite ventilated on this on my twitter handle @jwalu. But have a look at point 2 below
2. ICTS and Fuel, Electricity, Water, -What ICT tools exists to prevent persistent shortages in Fuel, Power, Water etc? Obviously this again is probably the "boring" option but closer to the KICTAnet mission http://www.kictanet.or.ke/
But that was the thinking 8yrs ago, maybe what Listers are saying is that they want this to change and hey, I cannot stop that since it is about democracy and what the majority want. But I can remind you that this list is both local and international and unless contributors seek to bring out the ICT connection, quite a bit of Listers are likely to seek a way out.
walu.
--- On *Wed, 12/7/11, [email protected] <[email protected]>* wrote:
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? To: "Walubengo J" <[email protected]>, kictanet-bounces+bitange= [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:41 AM
Walubengo, Yesterday we spent a great deal of time discussing how technology will impact governance in the days a head. We heard arguments from leading social scientists, economists, politicians and journalists.
Then in my break I read your post on refocusing our discussions around IT issues. I have spent the night reflecting on this and now I am a bit confused. What do we mean when we say ICT is cross cutting? What is content in ICT terms? Can we use ICT as a tool for development? And what is development?
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 07:23:49 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic?
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/etinick%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Walu, As you can see, we are eagerly awaiting. Actually Grace says that efforts are underway behind the scenes to get us started off and engage Mr. Kibati in earnest. Am hopeful that his 1 week stay as our distinguished guest will be extended, since it's almost gone. I remember you used to organize some "town hall" style consultative forums sometimes back. Just wondering if such would be an ideal forum platform, especially given the weighty discussion at hand. Again we look forward, as we await for the moderator to blow the whistle.. Harry Nb: As you can also see, I have changed the subject for this thread, and for a good reason. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Walubengo J Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 11:59 AM To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-reality check Dr. Ndemo, +1 (I agree) walu. nb: by the way, where is this Mugo Kibati? Did Yawe knock him out before round 1? --- On Wed, 12/7/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-reality check To: "Walubengo J" <[email protected]>, [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 1:15 PM Walubengo, Here is what I think. Technology can indeed help solve many of the problems that you refer to as pure ranting. Problems are actually opportunities. Imagine if we create an application that automatically sends an SMS to KPLC every time the power goes off. Another application to read the meter and synchronize it with billing such that the customer gets an alert before disconnection. Develop a querry system to compare bills from the local area. Use geo-sensing to determine consumption patterns. This is how we can create efficiencies and create jobs. We can also clean our environment by use of clean power. Our sewage in Kariobamngi is a good source for biogas. We can use it too to water the Muthaiga Golf course. As I write this we are discussing how big data can impact policy. Our foreign policy needs to come from evidence base, that is big data on trade, environment, diplomacy. We need data to inform us the long term effect to our national interests if we vary any of the variables stated. Big data analytics is pure IT but formulation of relevant variables is politicking. We cannot hide behind our inadequacies. What we need are volunteers to take any debate here and relate it to IT and how technology can help solve the problem. This is the basis of innovation. It is dangerous to avoid confronting issues. Steve Jobs died before making discoveries on technology and speech. Our failure to critically this how technology can help reduce hate messages will hurt us in the days to come. We are not even able to condemn bad content yet we promote content as a driver of ICT growth. Kictanet has just requested to have Mugo as guest discussant yet ICT is a small aspect of the Vision. In my view you need a radical review of this noble initiative. Our discussions must lead to some specific objective. We can use the forum to spur innovation. Simple issues like cost of broadband, customer service and other mundane issues will not impact on our desired future (that is if we all understand it but I leave Mugo to articulate it). Have a wonderful day. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerryR _____ From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 01:29:09 -0800 (PST) To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-reality check Dr. Ndemo, All I agree it is a very thin line that we have to strive to balance on. ICT is and should be cross cutting into socio-economic and political spheres. But the way I see it is for the list is as follows: 1. Pure Politcs: "Why its wrong for Kenya to Pacify Bashir": then followed by discussions for and against the move to pacify Bashir. Many vibrant lists exist for this type of conversations e.g http://www.mashada.com/ 2. ICTs and Politics "How Media is (mis?)leading the Masses in the Bashir Case": then followed by discussions on how this could be propagated or curtailed using new media?(FB, Twitter, etc). Obviously this is the "boring" option but it is what KICTAnet is/was about ref: http://www.kictanet.or.ke/ I could be wrong but option 2 is they way I have always viewed this list. Another example. 1. Pure Ranting. "No Fuel, No Electricity, No Water". Again, many lists exists elsewhere to ventilate on this. Indeed I have quite ventilated on this on my twitter handle @jwalu. But have a look at point 2 below 2. ICTS and Fuel, Electricity, Water, -What ICT tools exists to prevent persistent shortages in Fuel, Power, Water etc? Obviously this again is probably the "boring" option but closer to the KICTAnet mission http://www.kictanet.or.ke/ But that was the thinking 8yrs ago, maybe what Listers are saying is that they want this to change and hey, I cannot stop that since it is about democracy and what the majority want. But I can remind you that this list is both local and international and unless contributors seek to bring out the ICT connection, quite a bit of Listers are likely to seek a way out. walu. --- On Wed, 12/7/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? To: "Walubengo J" <[email protected]>, [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:41 AM Walubengo, Yesterday we spent a great deal of time discussing how technology will impact governance in the days a head. We heard arguments from leading social scientists, economists, politicians and journalists. Then in my break I read your post on refocusing our discussions around IT issues. I have spent the night reflecting on this and now I am a bit confused. What do we mean when we say ICT is cross cutting? What is content in ICT terms? Can we use ICT as a tool for development? And what is development? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 07:23:49 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Walubengo, Eight years down the line, if we are indeed carrying out a real reality check, then it would inform us that times are changing just too fast, and we happen to be at a point that we may at best call, a "cross-sector convergence" zone. The point am trying to make is, it would really be futile to talk and discuss accelerated technology, such as Konza Technology centre, when such convergent subsectors - such as energy are lagging behind, and dragging through mud. Democracy, Governance, Multistakeholder policy formulation, liberalization etc - These are not strange terms when it comes to the wider ICT space that we right now enjoy. They are anchors that create the enabling environment for ICT to thrive. Otherwise I still pose, does anyone remember 9-10 yrs ago, and how far we have come..? Instead of hopping across to other mundane forums and back, I suppose the best approach would be for listers to be given every chance to air their opinion ( in a civil way) as ICT stakeholders, who at the same time happen to be larger stakeholders in the rest of pretty much what goes on in the nation and the world at large and seek to provide tangible solutions - most notably, using ICT tools. As times change fast, as they are doing now, let the forum never lose its relevance. Harry From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Walubengo J Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:29 PM To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-reality check Dr. Ndemo, All I agree it is a very thin line that we have to strive to balance on. ICT is and should be cross cutting into socio-economic and political spheres. But the way I see it is for the list is as follows: 1. Pure Politcs: "Why its wrong for Kenya to Pacify Bashir": then followed by discussions for and against the move to pacify Bashir. Many vibrant lists exist for this type of conversations e.g http://www.mashada.com/ 2. ICTs and Politics "How Media is (mis?)leading the Masses in the Bashir Case": then followed by discussions on how this could be propagated or curtailed using new media?(FB, Twitter, etc). Obviously this is the "boring" option but it is what KICTAnet is/was about ref: http://www.kictanet.or.ke/ I could be wrong but option 2 is they way I have always viewed this list. Another example. 1. Pure Ranting. "No Fuel, No Electricity, No Water". Again, many lists exists elsewhere to ventilate on this. Indeed I have quite ventilated on this on my twitter handle @jwalu. But have a look at point 2 below 2. ICTS and Fuel, Electricity, Water, -What ICT tools exists to prevent persistent shortages in Fuel, Power, Water etc? Obviously this again is probably the "boring" option but closer to the KICTAnet mission http://www.kictanet.or.ke/ But that was the thinking 8yrs ago, maybe what Listers are saying is that they want this to change and hey, I cannot stop that since it is about democracy and what the majority want. But I can remind you that this list is both local and international and unless contributors seek to bring out the ICT connection, quite a bit of Listers are likely to seek a way out. walu. --- On Wed, 12/7/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? To: "Walubengo J" <[email protected]>, [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:41 AM Walubengo, Yesterday we spent a great deal of time discussing how technology will impact governance in the days a head. We heard arguments from leading social scientists, economists, politicians and journalists. Then in my break I read your post on refocusing our discussions around IT issues. I have spent the night reflecting on this and now I am a bit confused. What do we mean when we say ICT is cross cutting? What is content in ICT terms? Can we use ICT as a tool for development? And what is development? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 07:23:49 To: <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
What Walu said. I think this sums it up very nicely if we want to keep the list an ICT list. On 7 December 2011 12:29, Walubengo J <[email protected]> wrote:
Dr. Ndemo, All
I agree it is a very thin line that we have to strive to balance on. ICT is and should be cross cutting into socio-economic and political spheres. But the way I see it is for the list is as follows:
1. Pure Politcs: "Why its wrong for Kenya to Pacify Bashir": then followed by discussions for and against the move to pacify Bashir. Many vibrant lists exist for this type of conversations e.g http://www.mashada.com/
2. ICTs and Politics "How Media is (mis?)leading the Masses in the Bashir Case": then followed by discussions on how this could be propagated or curtailed using new media?(FB, Twitter, etc). Obviously this is the "boring" option but it is what KICTAnet is/was about ref: http://www.kictanet.or.ke/
I could be wrong but option 2 is they way I have always viewed this list. Another example.
1. Pure Ranting. "No Fuel, No Electricity, No Water". Again, many lists exists elsewhere to ventilate on this. Indeed I have quite ventilated on this on my twitter handle @jwalu. But have a look at point 2 below
2. ICTS and Fuel, Electricity, Water, -What ICT tools exists to prevent persistent shortages in Fuel, Power, Water etc? Obviously this again is probably the "boring" option but closer to the KICTAnet mission http://www.kictanet.or.ke/
But that was the thinking 8yrs ago, maybe what Listers are saying is that they want this to change and hey, I cannot stop that since it is about democracy and what the majority want. But I can remind you that this list is both local and international and unless contributors seek to bring out the ICT connection, quite a bit of Listers are likely to seek a way out.
walu.
--- On *Wed, 12/7/11, [email protected] <[email protected]>* wrote:
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic? To: "Walubengo J" <[email protected]>, kictanet-bounces+bitange= [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:41 AM
Walubengo, Yesterday we spent a great deal of time discussing how technology will impact governance in the days a head. We heard arguments from leading social scientists, economists, politicians and journalists.
Then in my break I read your post on refocusing our discussions around IT issues. I have spent the night reflecting on this and now I am a bit confused. What do we mean when we say ICT is cross cutting? What is content in ICT terms? Can we use ICT as a tool for development? And what is development?
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <[email protected] <http://mc/[email protected]>> Sender: [email protected]<http://mc/[email protected]>: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 07:23:49 To: <[email protected] <http://mc/[email protected]>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<[email protected]<http://mc/[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It's Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir-offtopic?
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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participants (15)
-
Alice Munyua -
Andrea Bohnstedt -
bitange＠jambo.co.ke -
David Makali -
Etinick Mutinda -
Grace Githaiga -
Harry Delano -
Info -
K Machuhi -
lordmwesh -
McTim -
robert yawe -
samuel ochanji -
Walubengo J -
waudo siganga