Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit: I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify. On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella? On the links you sent onlist: www.innovation-africa.net Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008 I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct? What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives. With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens. Alex --- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM Hi Waudo,
As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful partnership.
Kevit Desai
_____
From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 To: Kevit Desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling KEPSA and KIF at the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote KIF at the expense of other associations. The explanation is very simple: KEPSA was formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised by INCLUSIVITY. KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the nature of such an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership mechanism). I would like to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT Board, not just KIF. Please give us space.
Waudo
On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with its own governance structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as KIF vice chairman.
KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry association, member of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman.
Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) private company, director, member of KIF.
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd
, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
htpp://www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
-----Original Message----- From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM To: kevit desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can answer it on
the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a rosy situation
including "collaboration" is simply not true. The reason to be frank is
that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other association to
have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could you as a
KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations including the
major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in KEPSA? It can be
sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote KIF and crack
down on those you feel are in the way.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai"
<[email protected]> said:
Hi Walu,
Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I would like to confirm
that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would like to do a lot
more
and welcome more support.
We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last ministerial stakeholder
forum.
Collaboration is the way forward.
Kevit Desai
KEPSA Director
-----Original Message-----
From:
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke]
On Behalf Of waudo siganga
Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02
Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
e-Commerce in
Kenya
Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS somewhere in the
bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT (or ICT) Profession
on this list a few months ago. But the rather unenthusiastic response I
got gave me the sense that possibly this was not
correct list since
many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT Policy rather than
being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks there will be another
list for professionals and you will be informed (you have the
qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a registration board
like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and Procurement
Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on unheralded. All we need
is a champion or chanpions in the right place.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John Walubengo"
<[email protected]> said:
Marcel,
It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in this
area...unfortunately it seems as if it was restricted within KIF only? I
wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r u there?) or
Information Security Audit & Control (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to
mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya were involved. I beg to
be enlightened.
This brings in an old question - who really represents the IT Profession
in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying
IT is the only
discipline where we seem to lack bodies with
same authority as LSK
(Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of Engineers of Kenya), Medical
Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate the IT Profession.
And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill either (and has a
different objective anyway). But time has come to really start thinking
of regulating the IT profession, even as we struggle to regulate the
industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on this, but they have been
awfully quite except when they award prizes at the end of the year (Waudo
I know u will kill me offline but I just had to say it!).
KEPSA? very reputable and effective
in the Manufacturing
sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as effective - particularly
because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT industry has been 'cloudy'
for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK or ISACA be part of
KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to be enlightened.
O.K. I agree I did digress, but just
loudly and saying that as
we think of regulating electronic
we also need to
simultaneously start regulating the IT profession..but maybe I am wrong.
Particularly because regulation can and often leads to suppression...
walu.
--- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Marcel Werner <[email protected]>
Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # 3 - Report -
Public Panel 19
June 2008
*Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add at least one
percent point growth
to Kenya's overall economic growth within five years.
This is contingent
upon the adoption of legislation that supports electronic
transactions. *Kenya,
as an emerging economy and regional leader, lags behind in
having a legal
framework for e-commerce in place. The current situation is
an anachronism
hampering national development, placing provincial centres
at a
disadvantage, and harming global competitiveness. Both
external and internal
trade require the new framework.The Kenyan private sector
strongly supports
e-commerce legislation, as well as legislation of the
Information and
Communication Technology sector that guarantees an open
market and promotes
innovation.
Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation supporting
electronic transactions
represents the single most powerful innovation opportunity
in the legal
framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is needed to:
-Legalize e-commerce transactions by recognizing an
electronic signature
-Manage and control e-commerce risks
-Remove e-commerce barriers
KIF has studied drafts currently circulating in the public
domain, the
Information and Communications Bill, 2008, and the
Electronic Transactions
Bill, 2007, respectively, both of which are of the highest
technical
standards. Public panels and hearings with sectors of the
economy (including
tourism, agriculture, ICT) have been held on 6th and 27th
May, 4th June and
19th June. The Kenyan private sector has expressed
overwhelming support for
urgent legislation of e-commerce.
Suggested improvements in Bills - The
panels and
hearings to date
have yielded the following important issues for improvement
in the current
Bills:
- Provisions on who can
are missing
- Liability of Internet Service Providers must be
demarcated
- Clarification on which commercial documents are
excluded from
proposed legislation
- Eliminate any ambiguity on admissibility of
electronic evidence
- Need for data protection and privacy provisions
- The Bills are more lenient on e-commerce fraud
than on
traditional fraud
- Remove inconsistencies in determining crimes and
punishments
- Provisions for the inclusion of cyber-crime
within the scope of
the Extradition Act
- Creation of an Administrator for e-commerce laws
whose functions
will be policy implementation and advisory, as a
multi-sectoral body with
industry associations including KIF, lead regulator
Communications
Commission of Kenya and co-regulator Central Bank of Kenya
Gains in tourism, agriculture, healthcare
Industry sectors, notably the tourism industry, are
expressing their desire
to see e-commerce covered by law. In tourism, on-line
travel bookings have
exceeded 80% in the USA and 50% in Europe. Decline in
off-line bookings is
in ample evidence. Those destinations
cannot legally
support abundant
on-line booking, such as Kenya, will loose market share.
E-commerce in
agriculture will improve small-holder's living
standards. Great impact is
expected notably in the coffee sector
provides
livelihood to at least 5
million Kenyans, as well as in the dairy industry.
Healthcare efficiency and
affordability will improve by on-line health data
management systems.
Business operators in rural towns and rural centres have
also expressed keen
interest, as they see scope to address issues of trade
efficiency and
security in rural Kenya.
What is e-commerce
E-commerce is a method of trading that replaces paper-based
documentation by
a mutually binding electronic protocol between buyers and
sellers.
E-commerce is gaining ground globally and has become an
irreversible trend.
Many trading partners are already
Regulation for the that the particularly thinking transactions, public prosecute that that practicing
e-commerce, by
mutual
agreement, also in Kenya. However, e-commerce will reach
its full potential
when parties that do not know each other are able to trade
with full mutual
protection under the law. This will benefit large numbers
of consumers and
businesses, including small-holder farmers, tourism
operators, small-scale
industry and services providers in almost any business
sector.
About KIF
The Kenya Information and Communication Technology
Federation (KIF)
represents the ICT industry with Government and with
private sector bodies
e.g. Kenya Association of Manufacturers and Kenya Private
Sector Alliance
KEPSA <http://www.kepsa.org/>. KIF is a legally
registered membership based
Association, made up of trade associations and professional
bodies within
the national ICT industry, as well as commercial
corporations. KIF has been
accepted as the private sector voice of ICT by Government.
KIF contributes
ideas to key sectors like healthcare, education,
agriculture, construction
industry, and last but not least supports e-government
development. KIF is a
membership-driven organisation. Members bring issues on
public policy and
industry development forward for KIF to take action. Issues
include:
innovation promotion, education improvement, duties, taxes
and levies, rural
ICT investment. KIF has a strong and active network, with
excellent
relationships with all government agencies. KIF membership
is open for
market segment associations and individual companies.
Membership charges are
annual and based on company size. Contact:
[email protected], 020
4440102
MARCEL WERNER, Chairman, Kenya ICT Federation
please send any business mail to:
[email protected]_______________________________________
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Alex: Could this be another example of what Dr Ndemo called (I am misquoting) "they caught us napping"? Maybe we Kenyans should be less gullible and more vigilante. Joe On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
< http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM Hi Waudo,
As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful partnership.
Kevit Desai
_____
From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 To: Kevit Desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling KEPSA and KIF at the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote KIF at the expense of other associations. The explanation is very simple: KEPSA was formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised by INCLUSIVITY. KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the nature of such an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership mechanism). I would like to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT Board, not just KIF. Please give us space.
Waudo
On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with its own governance structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as KIF vice chairman.
KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry association, member of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman.
Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) private company, director, member of KIF.
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd
, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
htpp://www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
-----Original Message----- From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM To: kevit desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can answer it on
the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a rosy situation
including "collaboration" is simply not true. The reason to be frank is
that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other association to
have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could you as a
KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations including the
major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in KEPSA? It can be
sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote KIF and crack
down on those you feel are in the way.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai"
<[email protected]> said:
Hi Walu,
Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I would like to confirm
that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would like to do a lot
more
and welcome more support.
We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last ministerial stakeholder
forum.
Collaboration is the way forward.
Kevit Desai
KEPSA Director
-----Original Message-----
From:
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= [email protected]]
On Behalf Of waudo siganga
Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02
Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
e-Commerce in
Kenya
Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS somewhere in the
bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT (or ICT) Profession
on this list a few months ago. But the rather unenthusiastic response I
got gave me the sense that possibly this was not
correct list since
many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT Policy rather than
being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks there will be another
list for professionals and you will be informed (you have the
qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a registration board
like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and Procurement
Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on unheralded. All we need
is a champion or chanpions in the right place.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John Walubengo"
<[email protected]> said:
Marcel,
It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in this
area...unfortunately it seems as if it was restricted within KIF only? I
wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r u there?) or
Information Security Audit & Control (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to
mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya were involved. I beg to
be enlightened.
This brings in an old question - who really represents the IT Profession
in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying
IT is the only
discipline where we seem to lack bodies with
same authority as LSK
(Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of Engineers of Kenya), Medical
Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate the IT Profession.
And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill either (and has a
different objective anyway). But time has come to really start thinking
of regulating the IT profession, even as we struggle to regulate the
industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on this, but they have been
awfully quite except when they award prizes at the end of the year (Waudo
I know u will kill me offline but I just had to say it!).
KEPSA? very reputable and effective
in the Manufacturing
sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as effective - particularly
because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT industry has been 'cloudy'
for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK or ISACA be part of
KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to be enlightened.
O.K. I agree I did digress, but just
loudly and saying that as
we think of regulating electronic
we also need to
simultaneously start regulating the IT profession..but maybe I am wrong.
Particularly because regulation can and often leads to suppression...
walu.
--- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Marcel Werner <[email protected]>
Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # 3 - Report -
Public Panel 19
June 2008
*Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add at least one
percent point growth
to Kenya's overall economic growth within five years.
This is contingent
upon the adoption of legislation that supports electronic
transactions. *Kenya,
as an emerging economy and regional leader, lags behind in
having a legal
framework for e-commerce in place. The current situation is
an anachronism
hampering national development, placing provincial centres
at a
disadvantage, and harming global competitiveness. Both
external and internal
trade require the new framework.The Kenyan private sector
strongly supports
e-commerce legislation, as well as legislation of the
Information and
Communication Technology sector that guarantees an open
market and promotes
innovation.
Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation supporting
electronic transactions
represents the single most powerful innovation opportunity
in the legal
framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is needed to:
-Legalize e-commerce transactions by recognizing an
electronic signature
-Manage and control e-commerce risks
-Remove e-commerce barriers
KIF has studied drafts currently circulating in the public
domain, the
Information and Communications Bill, 2008, and the
Electronic Transactions
Bill, 2007, respectively, both of which are of the highest
technical
standards. Public panels and hearings with sectors of the
economy (including
tourism, agriculture, ICT) have been held on 6th and 27th
May, 4th June and
19th June. The Kenyan private sector has expressed
overwhelming support for
urgent legislation of e-commerce.
Suggested improvements in Bills - The
panels and
hearings to date
have yielded the following important issues for improvement
in the current
Bills:
- Provisions on who can
are missing
- Liability of Internet Service Providers must be
demarcated
- Clarification on which commercial documents are
excluded from
proposed legislation
- Eliminate any ambiguity on admissibility of
electronic evidence
- Need for data protection and privacy provisions
- The Bills are more lenient on e-commerce fraud
than on
traditional fraud
- Remove inconsistencies in determining crimes and
punishments
- Provisions for the inclusion of cyber-crime
within the scope of
the Extradition Act
- Creation of an Administrator for e-commerce laws
whose functions
will be policy implementation and advisory, as a
multi-sectoral body with
industry associations including KIF, lead regulator
Communications
Commission of Kenya and co-regulator Central Bank of Kenya
Gains in tourism, agriculture, healthcare
Industry sectors, notably the tourism industry, are
expressing their desire
to see e-commerce covered by law. In tourism, on-line
travel bookings have
exceeded 80% in the USA and 50% in Europe. Decline in
off-line bookings is
in ample evidence. Those destinations
cannot legally
support abundant
on-line booking, such as Kenya, will loose market share.
E-commerce in
agriculture will improve small-holder's living
standards. Great impact is
expected notably in the coffee sector
provides
livelihood to at least 5
million Kenyans, as well as in the dairy industry.
Healthcare efficiency and
affordability will improve by on-line health data
management systems.
Business operators in rural towns and rural centres have
also expressed keen
interest, as they see scope to address issues of trade
efficiency and
security in rural Kenya.
What is e-commerce
E-commerce is a method of trading that replaces paper-based
documentation by
a mutually binding electronic protocol between buyers and
sellers.
E-commerce is gaining ground globally and has become an
irreversible trend.
Many trading partners are already
Regulation for the that the particularly thinking transactions, public prosecute that that practicing
e-commerce, by
mutual
agreement, also in Kenya. However, e-commerce will reach
its full potential
when parties that do not know each other are able to trade
with full mutual
protection under the law. This will benefit large numbers
of consumers and
businesses, including small-holder farmers, tourism
operators, small-scale
industry and services providers in almost any business
sector.
About KIF
The Kenya Information and Communication Technology
Federation (KIF)
represents the ICT industry with Government and with
private sector bodies
e.g. Kenya Association of Manufacturers and Kenya Private
Sector Alliance
KEPSA <http://www.kepsa.org/>. KIF is a legally
registered membership based
Association, made up of trade associations and professional
bodies within
the national ICT industry, as well as commercial
corporations. KIF has been
accepted as the private sector voice of ICT by Government.
KIF contributes
ideas to key sectors like healthcare, education,
agriculture, construction
industry, and last but not least supports e-government
development. KIF is a
membership-driven organisation. Members bring issues on
public policy and
industry development forward for KIF to take action. Issues
include:
innovation promotion, education improvement, duties, taxes
and levies, rural
ICT investment. KIF has a strong and active network, with
excellent
relationships with all government agencies. KIF membership
is open for
market segment associations and individual companies.
Membership charges are
annual and based on company size. Contact:
[email protected], 020
4440102
MARCEL WERNER, Chairman, Kenya ICT Federation
please send any business mail to:
[email protected]_______________________________________
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(Confucius).
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Yes they :"caught us napping" with everything...take a look at the ISP's and see how for example wananchi on line was canibalised (for lack of a better word) it was one of the indigenous ISP's that was doing so well. Anyway...while there is nothing wrong with wearing many hats...Kevit is director at KEPSA, KIF, ICT board etc etc, it is important to maintain a level of transparency , indepedence and adhere to good corporate goverannce. It would be interesting to hear from Kevit what they have in place to avoid monopoly, exclusion etc...questions posed by Alex regards Wambui Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 09:33:58 -0400 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya CC: [email protected] To: [email protected] Alex: Could this be another example of what Dr Ndemo called (I am misquoting) "they caught us napping"? Maybe we Kenyans should be less gullible and more vigilante. Joe On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote: Kevit: I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify. On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella? On the links you sent onlist: www.innovation-africa.net Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008 I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct? What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives. With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens. Alex --- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM
Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and
market segment
associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence:
KEPSA decisions
are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from
the private
sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for
membership in KEPSA, neither
are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows
the same approach
for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and
government agencies are
member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR
BASIS with all
those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no
obligation to
offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam
Mwaura of KEPSA or
Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45
To: kevit desai
Cc: kictanet-lists
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions
independence?
The political issue here may be monopolization to the
extent of clouding out
other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory
steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects'
attitude towards
cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments
with different
degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no
competition at all up
to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute
generously to a public
project in the absence of competition, whereas they
contribute very little
in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A
diminishing attitude
towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of
competition increases.
Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the
maximum degree of
competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai
<[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
e-Commerce in Kenya
Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT
Policy Discussions'"
Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM
Hi Waudo,
As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other
association to full
membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful
partnership.
Kevit Desai
_____
From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55
To: Kevit Desai
Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy
Discussions'
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when
handling
KEPSA and KIF at
the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to
promote
KIF at the
expense of other associations. The explanation is very
simple: KEPSA was
formed as a focal point, a bringing together
characterised
by INCLUSIVITY.
KIF on the other hand is an independent association
and the
nature of such
an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership
mechanism). I would like
to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA
ICT
Board, not just
KIF. Please give us space.
Waudo
On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit
Desai"
<[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body
with
its own governance
structure. Elected as a director in private capacity
and as
KIF vice
chairman.
KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry
association, member
of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman.
Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com)
private company,
director, member of KIF.
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP
Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd
, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020
2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
htpp://www.ict.go.ke
-----Original Message-----
From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM
To: kevit desai
Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy
Discussions'
Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET
I can
answer it on
the same forum. I think the picture being painted
about a
rosy situation
including "collaboration" is simply not
true. The
reason to be frank is
that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other
association to
have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government.
Could
you as a
KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations
including the
major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute
in
KEPSA? It can be
sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to
promote
KIF and crack
down on those you feel are in the way.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit
desai"
<[email protected]> said:
Hi Walu,
Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA.
I
would like to confirm
that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We
would
like to do a lot
more
and welcome more support.
We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our
last
ministerial stakeholder
forum.
Collaboration is the way forward.
Kevit Desai
KEPSA Director
-----Original Message-----
From:
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke]
On Behalf Of waudo siganga
Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02
Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy
Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
Regulation for
e-Commerce in
Kenya
Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on
GPRS
somewhere in the
bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the
IT
(or ICT) Profession
on this list a few months ago. But the rather
unenthusiastic response I
got gave me the sense that possibly this was not
the
correct list since
many of the subscribers appear just interested in
ICT
Policy rather than
being actual IT Experts. Within the next two
weeks
there will be another
list for professionals and you will be informed
(you
have the
qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing
for a
registration board
like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and
Procurement
Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on
unheralded. All we need
is a champion or chanpions in the right place.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT),
"John
Walubengo"
<[email protected]> said:
Marcel,
It looks like quite some work has been
ongoing in
this
area...unfortunately it seems as if it was
restricted within KIF only?
I
wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK,
Waudo r
u there?) or
Information Security Audit & Control
(ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to
mention some of the big IT Associations in
Kenya
were involved. I beg to
be enlightened.
This brings in an old question - who really
represents the IT Profession
in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying
that
IT is the only
discipline where we seem to lack bodies with
the
same authority as LSK
(Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of
Engineers of Kenya), Medical
Practictioners Board amongst others to
regulate
the IT Profession.
And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the
bill
either (and has a
different objective anyway). But time has
come
to really start thinking
of regulating the IT profession, even as we
struggle to regulate the
industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead
on
this, but they have been
awfully quite except when they award prizes
at
the end of the year
(Waudo
I know u will kill me offline but I just had
to
say it!).
KEPSA? very reputable and effective
particularly
in the Manufacturing
sector but on IT? am not sure they have been
as
effective - particularly
because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the
IT
industry has been 'cloudy'
for lack of a better word...Can for example
CSK
or ISACA be part of
KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again
need to
be enlightened.
O.K. I agree I did digress, but just
thinking
loudly and saying that as
we think of regulating electronic
transactions,
we also need to
simultaneously start regulating the IT
profession..but maybe I am wrong.
Particularly because regulation can and
often
leads to suppression...
walu.
--- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner
<[email protected]> wrote:
From: Marcel Werner
Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and
Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Cc: [email protected],
"KICTAnet
ICT Policy Discussions"
Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
Legislation and Regulation for
e-Commerce in
Kenya
Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing
Note #
3 - Report -
Public Panel 19
June 2008
*Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will
add
at least one
percent point growth
to Kenya's overall economic growth
within five years.
This is contingent
upon the adoption of legislation that
supports electronic
transactions. *Kenya,
as an emerging economy and regional
leader,
lags behind in
having a legal
framework for e-commerce in place. The
current situation is
an anachronism
hampering national development, placing
provincial centres
at a
disadvantage, and harming global
competitiveness. Both
external and internal
trade require the new framework.The
Kenyan
private sector
strongly supports
e-commerce legislation, as well as
legislation of the
Information and
Communication Technology sector that
guarantees an open
market and promotes
innovation.
Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation
supporting
electronic transactions
represents the single most powerful
innovation opportunity
in the legal
framework of the ICT sector.
Legislation is
needed to:
-Legalize e-commerce transactions by
recognizing an
electronic signature
-Manage and control e-commerce risks
-Remove e-commerce barriers
KIF has studied drafts currently
circulating
in the public
domain, the
Information and Communications Bill,
2008,
and the
Electronic Transactions
Bill, 2007, respectively, both of which
are
of the highest
technical
standards. Public panels and hearings
with
sectors of the
economy (including
tourism, agriculture, ICT) have been
held on
6th and 27th
May, 4th June and
19th June. The Kenyan private sector
has
expressed
overwhelming support for
urgent legislation of e-commerce.
Suggested improvements in Bills - The
public
panels and
hearings to date
have yielded the following important
issues
for improvement
in the current
Bills:
- Provisions on who can
prosecute
are missing
- Liability of Internet
Service
Providers must be
demarcated
- Clarification on which
commercial
documents are
excluded from
proposed legislation
- Eliminate any ambiguity on
admissibility of
electronic evidence
- Need for data protection and
privacy provisions
- The Bills are more lenient
on
e-commerce fraud
than on
traditional fraud
- Remove inconsistencies in
determining crimes and
punishments
- Provisions for the inclusion
of
cyber-crime
within the scope of
the Extradition Act
- Creation of an Administrator
for
e-commerce laws
whose functions
will be policy implementation and
advisory,
as a
multi-sectoral body with
industry associations including KIF,
lead
regulator
Communications
Commission of Kenya and co-regulator
Central
Bank of Kenya
Gains in tourism, agriculture,
healthcare
Industry sectors, notably the tourism
industry, are
expressing their desire
to see e-commerce covered by law. In
tourism, on-line
travel bookings have
exceeded 80% in the USA and 50% in
Europe.
Decline in
off-line bookings is
in ample evidence. Those destinations
that
cannot legally
support abundant
on-line booking, such as Kenya, will
loose
market share.
E-commerce in
agriculture will improve
small-holder's
living
standards. Great impact is
expected notably in the coffee sector
that
provides
livelihood to at least 5
million Kenyans, as well as in the
dairy
industry.
Healthcare efficiency and
affordability will improve by on-line
health
data
management systems.
Business operators in rural towns and
rural
centres have
also expressed keen
interest, as they see scope to address
issues of trade
efficiency and
security in rural Kenya.
What is e-commerce
E-commerce is a method of trading that
replaces paper-based
documentation by
a mutually binding electronic protocol
between buyers and
sellers.
E-commerce is gaining ground globally
and
has become an
irreversible trend.
Many trading partners are already
practicing
e-commerce, by
mutual
agreement, also in Kenya. However,
e-commerce will reach
its full potential
when parties that do not know each
other are
able to trade
with full mutual
protection under the law. This will
benefit
large numbers
of consumers and
businesses, including small-holder
farmers,
tourism
operators, small-scale
industry and services providers in
almost
any business
sector.
About KIF
The Kenya Information and Communication
Technology
Federation (KIF)
represents the ICT industry with
Government
and with
private sector bodies
e.g. Kenya Association of Manufacturers
and
Kenya Private
Sector Alliance
KEPSA <http://www.kepsa.org/>.
KIF is
a legally
registered membership based
Association, made up of trade
associations
and professional
bodies within
the national ICT industry, as well as
commercial
corporations. KIF has been
accepted as the private sector voice of
ICT
by Government.
KIF contributes
ideas to key sectors like healthcare,
education,
agriculture, construction
industry, and last but not least
supports
e-government
development. KIF is a
membership-driven organisation. Members
bring issues on
public policy and
industry development forward for KIF to
take
action. Issues
include:
innovation promotion, education
improvement,
duties, taxes
and levies, rural
ICT investment. KIF has a strong and
active
network, with
excellent
relationships with all government
agencies.
KIF membership
is open for
market segment associations and
individual
companies.
Membership charges are
annual and based on company size.
Contact:
[email protected], 020
4440102
MARCEL WERNER, Chairman, Kenya ICT
Federation
please send any business mail to:
[email protected]_______________________________________
________
kictanet mailing list
This message was sent to:
Unsubscribe or change your options at
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om
People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom
makes
people work
(Confucius).
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
This message was sent to:
Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kevit%40centurionsystem
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People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes
people
work (Confucius).
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,
version
of virus signature
database 3248 (20080707) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes
people
work
(Confucius)._______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmail.com -- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com _________________________________________________________________ Play and win great prizes with Live Search and Kung Fu Panda http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719966/direct/01/
Hi Alex, I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF. I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself. Brian Sent from my iPhone On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM Hi Waudo,
As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful partnership.
Kevit Desai
_____
From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 To: Kevit Desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling KEPSA and KIF at the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote KIF at the expense of other associations. The explanation is very simple: KEPSA was formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised by INCLUSIVITY. KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the nature of such an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership mechanism). I would like to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT Board, not just KIF. Please give us space.
Waudo
On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with its own governance structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as KIF vice chairman.
KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry association, member of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman.
Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) private company, director, member of KIF.
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd
, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
htpp://www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
-----Original Message----- From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM To: kevit desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can answer it on
the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a rosy situation
including "collaboration" is simply not true. The reason to be frank is
that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other association to
have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could you as a
KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations including the
major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in KEPSA? It can be
sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote KIF and crack
down on those you feel are in the way.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai"
<[email protected]> said:
Hi Walu,
Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I would like to confirm
that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would like to do a lot
more
and welcome more support.
We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last ministerial stakeholder
forum.
Collaboration is the way forward.
Kevit Desai
KEPSA Director
-----Original Message-----
From:
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke ]
On Behalf Of waudo siganga
Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02
Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
e-Commerce in
Kenya
Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS somewhere in the
bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT (or ICT) Profession
on this list a few months ago. But the rather unenthusiastic response I
got gave me the sense that possibly this was not
correct list since
many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT Policy rather than
being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks there will be another
list for professionals and you will be informed (you have the
qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a registration board
like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and Procurement
Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on unheralded. All we need
is a champion or chanpions in the right place.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John Walubengo"
<[email protected]> said:
Marcel,
It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in this
area...unfortunately it seems as if it was restricted within KIF only? I
wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r u there?) or
Information Security Audit & Control (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to
mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya were involved. I beg to
be enlightened.
This brings in an old question - who really represents the IT Profession
in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying
IT is the only
discipline where we seem to lack bodies with
same authority as LSK
(Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of Engineers of Kenya), Medical
Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate the IT Profession.
And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill either (and has a
different objective anyway). But time has come to really start thinking
of regulating the IT profession, even as we struggle to regulate the
industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on this, but they have been
awfully quite except when they award prizes at the end of the year (Waudo
I know u will kill me offline but I just had to say it!).
KEPSA? very reputable and effective
in the Manufacturing
sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as effective - particularly
because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT industry has been 'cloudy'
for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK or ISACA be part of
KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to be enlightened.
O.K. I agree I did digress, but just
loudly and saying that as
we think of regulating electronic
Regulation for the that the particularly thinking transactions,
we also need to
simultaneously start regulating the IT profession..but maybe I am wrong.
Particularly because regulation can and often leads to suppression...
walu.
--- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Marcel Werner <[email protected]>
Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # 3 - Report -
Public Panel 19
June 2008
*Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add at least one
percent point growth
to Kenya's overall economic growth within five years.
This is contingent
upon the adoption of legislation that supports electronic
transactions. *Kenya,
as an emerging economy and regional leader, lags behind in
having a legal
framework for e-commerce in place. The current situation is
an anachronism
hampering national development, placing provincial centres
at a
disadvantage, and harming global competitiveness. Both
external and internal
trade require the new framework.The Kenyan private sector
strongly supports
e-commerce legislation, as well as legislation of the
Information and
Communication Technology sector that guarantees an open
market and promotes
innovation.
Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation supporting
electronic transactions
represents the single most powerful innovation opportunity
in the legal
framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is needed to:
-Legalize e-commerce transactions by recognizing an
electronic signature
-Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change. Waudo On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM Hi Waudo,
As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful partnership.
Kevit Desai
_____
From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 To: Kevit Desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling KEPSA and KIF at the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote KIF at the expense of other associations. The explanation is very simple: KEPSA was formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised by INCLUSIVITY. KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the nature of such an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership mechanism). I would like to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT Board, not just KIF. Please give us space.
Waudo
On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with its own governance structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as KIF vice chairman.
KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry association, member of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman.
Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) private company, director, member of KIF.
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd
, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
htpp://www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
-----Original Message----- From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM To: kevit desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can answer it on
the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a rosy situation
including "collaboration" is simply not true. The reason to be frank is
that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other association to
have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could you as a
KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations including the
major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in KEPSA? It can be
sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote KIF and crack
down on those you feel are in the way.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai"
<[email protected]> said:
Hi Walu,
Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I would like to confirm
that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would like to do a lot
more
and welcome more support.
We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last ministerial stakeholder
forum.
Collaboration is the way forward.
Kevit Desai
KEPSA Director
-----Original Message-----
From:
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke ]
On Behalf Of waudo siganga
Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02
Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
e-Commerce in
Kenya
Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS somewhere in the
bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT (or ICT) Profession
on this list a few months ago. But the rather unenthusiastic response I
got gave me the sense that possibly this was not
correct list since
many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT Policy rather than
being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks there will be another
list for professionals and you will be informed (you have the
qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a registration board
like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and Procurement
Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on unheralded. All we need
is a champion or chanpions in the right place.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John Walubengo"
<[email protected]> said:
Marcel,
It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in this
area...unfortunately it seems as if it was restricted within KIF only? I
wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r u there?) or
Information Security Audit & Control (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to
mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya were involved. I beg to
be enlightened.
This brings in an old question - who really represents the IT Profession
in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying
IT is the only
discipline where we seem to lack bodies with
same authority as LSK
(Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of Engineers of Kenya), Medical
Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate the IT Profession.
And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill either (and has a
different objective anyway). But time has come to really start thinking
of regulating the IT profession, even as we struggle to regulate the
industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on this, but they have been
awfully quite except when they award prizes at the end of the year (Waudo
I know u will kill me offline but I just had to say it!).
KEPSA? very reputable and effective
in the Manufacturing
sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as effective - particularly
because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT industry has been 'cloudy'
for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK or ISACA be part of
KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to be enlightened.
O.K. I agree I did digress, but just
loudly and saying that as
we think of regulating electronic
Regulation for the that the particularly thinking transactions,
we also need to
simultaneously start regulating the IT profession..but maybe I am wrong.
Particularly because regulation can and often leads to suppression...
walu.
--- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: Marcel Werner <[email protected]>
> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>
> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # 3 - Report -
> Public Panel 19
> June 2008
>
> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add at least one
> percent point growth
> to Kenya's overall economic growth within five years.
> This is contingent
> upon the adoption of legislation that supports electronic
> transactions. *Kenya,
> as an emerging economy and regional leader, lags behind in
> having a legal
> framework for e-commerce in place. The current situation is
> an anachronism
> hampering national development, placing provincial centres
> at a
> disadvantage, and harming global competitiveness. Both
> external and internal
> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan private sector
> strongly supports
> e-commerce legislation, as well as legislation of the
> Information and
> Communication Technology sector that guarantees an open
> market and promotes
> innovation.
>
> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation supporting
> electronic transactions
> represents the single most powerful innovation opportunity
> in the legal
> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is needed to:
> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by recognizing an
> electronic signature
> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.c... People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector. But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting. I am urging action instead of just talk. Brian Sent from my iPhone On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM Hi Waudo,
As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful partnership.
Kevit Desai
_____
From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 To: Kevit Desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling KEPSA and KIF at the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote KIF at the expense of other associations. The explanation is very simple: KEPSA was formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised by INCLUSIVITY. KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the nature of such an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership mechanism). I would like to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT Board, not just KIF. Please give us space.
Waudo
On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with its own governance structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as KIF vice chairman.
KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry association, member of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman.
Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) private company, director, member of KIF.
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd
, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
htpp://www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
-----Original Message----- From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM To: kevit desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can answer it on
the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a rosy situation
including "collaboration" is simply not true. The reason to be frank is
that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other association to
have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could you as a
KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations including the
major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in KEPSA? It can be
sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote KIF and crack
down on those you feel are in the way.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai"
<[email protected]> said:
Hi Walu,
Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I would like to confirm
that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would like to do a lot
more
and welcome more support.
We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last ministerial stakeholder
forum.
Collaboration is the way forward.
Kevit Desai
KEPSA Director
-----Original Message-----
From:
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke ]
On Behalf Of waudo siganga
Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02
Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
e-Commerce in
Kenya
Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS somewhere in the
bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT (or ICT) Profession
on this list a few months ago. But the rather unenthusiastic response I
got gave me the sense that possibly this was not
correct list since
many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT Policy rather than
being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks there will be another
list for professionals and you will be informed (you have the
qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a registration board
like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and Procurement
Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on unheralded. All we need
is a champion or chanpions in the right place.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John Walubengo"
<[email protected]> said:
> Marcel,
>
> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in this
> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was restricted within KIF only? I
> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r u there?) or
> Information Security Audit & Control (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to
> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya were involved. I beg to
> be enlightened.
>
> This brings in an old question - who really represents the IT Profession
> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying
IT is the only
> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with
same authority as LSK
> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of Engineers of Kenya), Medical
> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate the IT Profession.
>
> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill either (and has a
> different objective anyway). But time has come to really start thinking
> of regulating the IT profession, even as we struggle to regulate the
> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on this, but they have been
> awfully quite except when they award prizes at the end of the year (Waudo
> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to say it!).
>
> KEPSA? very reputable and effective
in the Manufacturing
> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as effective - particularly
> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT industry has been 'cloudy'
> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK or ISACA be part of
> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to be enlightened.
>
> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just
loudly and saying that as
> we think of regulating electronic
Regulation for the that the particularly thinking transactions,
we also need to
> simultaneously start regulating the IT profession..but maybe I am wrong.
> Particularly because regulation can and often leads to suppression...
>
> walu.
> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> From: Marcel Werner <[email protected]>
>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>> To: [email protected]
>> Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>>
>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # 3 - Report -
>> Public Panel 19
>> June 2008
>>
>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add at least one
>> percent point growth
>> to Kenya's overall economic growth within five years.
>> This is contingent
>> upon the adoption of legislation that supports electronic
>> transactions. *Kenya,
>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, lags behind in
>> having a legal
>> framework for e-commerce in place. The current situation is
>> an anachronism
>> hampering national development, placing provincial centres
>> at a
>> disadvantage, and harming global competitiveness. Both
>> external and internal
>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan private sector
>> strongly supports
>> e-commerce legislation, as well as legislation of the
>> Information and
>> Communication Technology sector that guarantees an open
>> market and promotes
>> innovation.
>>
>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation supporting
>> electronic transactions
>> represents the single most powerful innovation opportunity
>> in the legal
>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is needed to:
>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by recognizing an
>> electronic signature
>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.c... People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association??? Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM Hi Waudo,
As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful partnership.
Kevit Desai
_____
From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 To: Kevit Desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling KEPSA and KIF at the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote KIF at the expense of other associations. The explanation is very simple: KEPSA was formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised by INCLUSIVITY. KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the nature of such an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership mechanism). I would like to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT Board, not just KIF. Please give us space.
Waudo
On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with its own governance structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as KIF vice chairman.
KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry association, member of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman.
Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) private company, director, member of KIF.
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd
, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
htpp://www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
-----Original Message----- From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM To: kevit desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can answer it on
the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a rosy situation
including "collaboration" is simply not true. The reason to be frank is
that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other association to
have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could you as a
KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations including the
major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in KEPSA? It can be
sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote KIF and crack
down on those you feel are in the way.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai"
<[email protected]> said:
> Hi Walu,
> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I would like to confirm
> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would like to do a lot
> more
> and welcome more support.
> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last ministerial stakeholder
> forum.
> Collaboration is the way forward.
>
> Kevit Desai
> KEPSA Director
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke ]
> On Behalf Of waudo siganga
> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
e-Commerce in
> Kenya
>
> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS somewhere in the
> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT (or ICT) Profession
> on this list a few months ago. But the rather unenthusiastic response I
> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not
correct list since
> many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT Policy rather than
> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks there will be another
> list for professionals and you will be informed (you have the
> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a registration board
> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and Procurement
> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on unheralded. All we need
> is a champion or chanpions in the right place.
> Waudo
>
>
> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John Walubengo"
> <[email protected]> said:
>> Marcel,
>>
>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in this
>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was restricted within KIF only? I
>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r u there?) or
>> Information Security Audit & Control (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to
>> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya were involved. I beg to
>> be enlightened.
>>
>> This brings in an old question - who really represents the IT Profession
>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying
IT is the only
>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with
same authority as LSK
>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of Engineers of Kenya), Medical
>> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate the IT Profession.
>>
>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill either (and has a
>> different objective anyway). But time has come to really start thinking
>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we struggle to regulate the
>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on this, but they have been
>> awfully quite except when they award prizes at the end of the year (Waudo
>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to say it!).
>>
>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective
in the Manufacturing
>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as effective - particularly
>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT industry has been 'cloudy'
>> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK or ISACA be part of
>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to be enlightened.
>>
>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just
loudly and saying that as
>> we think of regulating electronic
Regulation for the that the particularly thinking transactions,
we also need to
>> simultaneously start regulating the IT profession..but maybe I am wrong.
>> Particularly because regulation can and often leads to suppression...
>>
>> walu.
>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Marcel Werner <[email protected]>
>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>>>
>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # 3 - Report -
>>> Public Panel 19
>>> June 2008
>>>
>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add at least one
>>> percent point growth
>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth within five years.
>>> This is contingent
>>> upon the adoption of legislation that supports electronic
>>> transactions. *Kenya,
>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, lags behind in
>>> having a legal
>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The current situation is
>>> an anachronism
>>> hampering national development, placing provincial centres
>>> at a
>>> disadvantage, and harming global competitiveness. Both
>>> external and internal
>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan private sector
>>> strongly supports
>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as legislation of the
>>> Information and
>>> Communication Technology sector that guarantees an open
>>> market and promotes
>>> innovation.
>>>
>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation supporting
>>> electronic transactions
>>> represents the single most powerful innovation opportunity
>>> in the legal
>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is needed to:
>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by recognizing an
>>> electronic signature
>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.c... People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question: Why are these associations needed? Joe On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
< http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: kevit desai <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> > Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM > Hi Waudo, > > As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > association to full > membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful > partnership. > > > > > > Kevit Desai > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 > To: Kevit Desai > Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling > KEPSA and KIF at > the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote > KIF at the > expense of other associations. The explanation is very > simple: KEPSA was > formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised > by INCLUSIVITY. > KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the > nature of such > an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership > mechanism). I would like > to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT > Board, not just > KIF. Please give us space. > > Waudo > > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" > <[email protected]> said: > > Hi Alex, > > > > KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with > its own governance > structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as > KIF vice > chairman. > > > > KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry > association, member > of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. > > > > Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) > private company, > director, member of KIF. > > > > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd > > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section > > Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition > > Governor - KEPSA > > Director - KEPSA > > Director - Innovation Africa > > Director- Kenya ICT Board > > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation > > BOA - AIESEC > > Member - National Strategy for University Education > > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya > > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 > > > > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, > > Raphta Rd > > , Westlands -Nairobi > > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. > > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 > 2049750 > > Mobile: +254 722 517067 > > > > http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com > > http://www.ieee.org > > http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke > > http://www.innovation-africa.net > > http://www.kepsa.or.ke > > http://www.powerup.co.ke > > http://www.aiesec.org > > http://www.africon2007.co.za > > http://www.kif.or.ke > > htpp://www.ict.go.ke > > http://www.globalcompact.org > > http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM > To: kevit desai > Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can > answer it on > > the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a > rosy situation > > including "collaboration" is simply not true. The > reason to be frank is > > that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other > association to > > have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could > you as a > > KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations > including the > > major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in > KEPSA? It can be > > sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote > KIF and crack > > down on those you feel are in the way. > > Waudo > > > > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai" > > <[email protected]> said: > >> Hi Walu, > >> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I > would like to confirm > >> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would > like to do a lot > >> more > >> and welcome more support. > >> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last > ministerial stakeholder > >> forum. > >> Collaboration is the way forward. > >> > >> Kevit Desai > >> KEPSA Director > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke > >> > [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= [email protected] ] > >> On Behalf Of waudo siganga > >> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 > >> To: [email protected] > >> Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions > >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in > >> Kenya > >> > >> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS > somewhere in the > >> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT > (or ICT) Profession > >> on this list a few months ago. But the rather > unenthusiastic response I > >> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not the > correct list since > >> many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT > Policy rather than > >> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks > there will be another > >> list for professionals and you will be informed (you > have the > >> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a > registration board > >> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and > Procurement > >> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on > unheralded. All we need > >> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. > >> Waudo > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John > Walubengo" > >> <[email protected]> said: > >>> Marcel, > >>> > >>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in > this > >>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was > restricted within KIF only? > I > >>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r > u there?) or > >>> Information Security Audit & Control > (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to > >>> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya > were involved. I beg to > >>> be enlightened. > >>> > >>> This brings in an old question - who really > represents the IT Profession > >>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying that > IT is the only > >>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with the > same authority as LSK > >>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of > Engineers of Kenya), Medical > >>> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate > the IT Profession. > >>> > >>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill > either (and has a > >>> different objective anyway). But time has come > to really start thinking > >>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we > struggle to regulate the > >>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on > this, but they have been > >>> awfully quite except when they award prizes at > the end of the year > (Waudo > >>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to > say it!). > >>> > >>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective particularly > in the Manufacturing > >>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as > effective - particularly > >>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT > industry has been 'cloudy' > >>> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK > or ISACA be part of > >>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to > be enlightened. > >>> > >>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just thinking > loudly and saying that as > >>> we think of regulating electronic transactions, > we also need to > >>> simultaneously start regulating the IT > profession..but maybe I am wrong. > >>> Particularly because regulation can and often > leads to suppression... > >>> > >>> walu. > >>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner > <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Marcel Werner > <[email protected]> > >>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > >>>> To: [email protected] > >>>> Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet > ICT Policy Discussions" > >> <[email protected]> > >>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM > >>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in > Kenya > >>>> > >>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # > 3 - Report - > >>>> Public Panel 19 > >>>> June 2008 > >>>> > >>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add > at least one > >>>> percent point growth > >>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth > within five years. > >>>> This is contingent > >>>> upon the adoption of legislation that > supports electronic > >>>> transactions. *Kenya, > >>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, > lags behind in > >>>> having a legal > >>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The > current situation is > >>>> an anachronism > >>>> hampering national development, placing > provincial centres > >>>> at a > >>>> disadvantage, and harming global > competitiveness. Both > >>>> external and internal > >>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan > private sector > >>>> strongly supports > >>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as > legislation of the > >>>> Information and > >>>> Communication Technology sector that > guarantees an open > >>>> market and promotes > >>>> innovation. > >>>> > >>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation > supporting > >>>> electronic transactions > >>>> represents the single most powerful > innovation opportunity > >>>> in the legal > >>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is > needed to: > >>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by > recognizing an > >>>> electronic signature > >>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.c... People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
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-- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved. SK From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: [email protected] Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question: Why are these associations needed? Joe On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote: Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association??? Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM Hi Waudo,
As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful partnership.
Kevit Desai
_____
From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 To: Kevit Desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling KEPSA and KIF at the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote KIF at the expense of other associations. The explanation is very simple: KEPSA was formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised by INCLUSIVITY. KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the nature of such an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership mechanism). I would like to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT Board, not just KIF. Please give us space.
Waudo
On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with its own governance structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as KIF vice chairman.
KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry association, member of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman.
Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) private company, director, member of KIF.
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd
, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
htpp://www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
-----Original Message----- From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM To: kevit desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can answer it on
the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a rosy situation
including "collaboration" is simply not true. The reason to be frank is
that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other association to
have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could you as a
KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations including the
major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in KEPSA? It can be
sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote KIF and crack
down on those you feel are in the way.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai"
<[email protected]> said:
> Hi Walu,
> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I would like to confirm
> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would like to do a lot
> more
> and welcome more support.
> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last ministerial stakeholder
> forum.
> Collaboration is the way forward.
>
> Kevit Desai
> KEPSA Director
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit> [email protected] ]
> On Behalf Of waudo siganga
> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
e-Commerce in
> Kenya
>
> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS somewhere in the
> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT (or ICT) Profession
> on this list a few months ago. But the rather unenthusiastic response I
> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not
correct list since
> many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT Policy rather than
> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks there will be another
> list for professionals and you will be informed (you have the
> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a registration board
> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and Procurement
> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on unheralded. All we need
> is a champion or chanpions in the right place.
> Waudo
>
>
> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John Walubengo"
> <[email protected]> said:
>> Marcel,
>>
>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in this
>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was restricted within KIF only? I
>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r u there?) or
>> Information Security Audit & Control (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to
>> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya were involved. I beg to
>> be enlightened.
>>
>> This brings in an old question - who really represents the IT Profession
>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying
IT is the only
>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with
same authority as LSK
>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of Engineers of Kenya), Medical
>> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate the IT Profession.
>>
>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill either (and has a
>> different objective anyway). But time has come to really start thinking
>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we struggle to regulate the
>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on this, but they have been
>> awfully quite except when they award prizes at the end of the year (Waudo
>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to say it!).
>>
>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective
in the Manufacturing
>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as effective - particularly
>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT industry has been 'cloudy'
>> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK or ISACA be part of
>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to be enlightened.
>>
>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just
loudly and saying that as
>> we think of regulating electronic
Regulation for the that the particularly thinking transactions,
we also need to
>> simultaneously start regulating the IT profession..but maybe I am wrong.
>> Particularly because regulation can and often leads to suppression...
>>
>> walu.
>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Marcel Werner <[email protected]>
>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>>>
>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # 3 - Report -
>>> Public Panel 19
>>> June 2008
>>>
>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add at least one
>>> percent point growth
>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth within five years.
>>> This is contingent
>>> upon the adoption of legislation that supports electronic
>>> transactions. *Kenya,
>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, lags behind in
>>> having a legal
>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The current situation is
>>> an anachronism
>>> hampering national development, placing provincial centres
>>> at a
>>> disadvantage, and harming global competitiveness. Both
>>> external and internal
>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan private sector
>>> strongly supports
>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as legislation of the
>>> Information and
>>> Communication Technology sector that guarantees an open
>>> market and promotes
>>> innovation.
>>>
>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation supporting
>>> electronic transactions
>>> represents the single most powerful innovation opportunity
>>> in the legal
>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is needed to:
>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by recognizing an
>>> electronic signature
>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.c om People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmail.com -- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com
Hi Sylvester, Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage. Regards, Brian On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo < [email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
*From:* [email protected] [mailto: kictanet-bounces+skisonzo <kictanet-bounces%2Bskisonzo>=gmail.com@ lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Joseph Manthi *Sent:* 09 July 2008 20:47 *To:* [email protected]
*Cc:* kictanet-lists *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
< http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: kevit desai <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> > Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM > Hi Waudo, > > As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > association to full > membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful > partnership. > > > > > > Kevit Desai > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 > To: Kevit Desai > Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling > KEPSA and KIF at > the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote > KIF at the > expense of other associations. The explanation is very > simple: KEPSA was > formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised > by INCLUSIVITY. > KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the > nature of such > an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership > mechanism). I would like > to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT > Board, not just > KIF. Please give us space. > > Waudo > > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" > <[email protected]> said: > > Hi Alex, > > > > KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with > its own governance > structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as > KIF vice > chairman. > > > > KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry > association, member > of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. > > > > Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) > private company, > director, member of KIF. > > > > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd > > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section > > Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition > > Governor - KEPSA > > Director - KEPSA > > Director - Innovation Africa > > Director- Kenya ICT Board > > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation > > BOA - AIESEC > > Member - National Strategy for University Education > > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya > > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 > > > > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, > > Raphta Rd > > , Westlands -Nairobi > > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. > > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 > 2049750 > > Mobile: +254 722 517067 > > > > http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com > > http://www.ieee.org > > http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke > > http://www.innovation-africa.net > > http://www.kepsa.or.ke > > http://www.powerup.co.ke > > http://www.aiesec.org > > http://www.africon2007.co.za > > http://www.kif.or.ke > > htpp://www.ict.go.ke > > http://www.globalcompact.org > > http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM > To: kevit desai > Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can > answer it on > > the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a > rosy situation > > including "collaboration" is simply not true. The > reason to be frank is > > that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other > association to > > have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could > you as a > > KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations > including the > > major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in > KEPSA? It can be > > sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote > KIF and crack > > down on those you feel are in the way. > > Waudo > > > > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai" > > <[email protected]> said: > >> Hi Walu, > >> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I > would like to confirm > >> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would > like to do a lot > >> more > >> and welcome more support. > >> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last > ministerial stakeholder > >> forum. > >> Collaboration is the way forward. > >> > >> Kevit Desai > >> KEPSA Director > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke > >> > [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= [email protected] ] > >> On Behalf Of waudo siganga > >> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 > >> To: [email protected] > >> Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions > >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in > >> Kenya > >> > >> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS > somewhere in the > >> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT > (or ICT) Profession > >> on this list a few months ago. But the rather > unenthusiastic response I > >> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not the > correct list since > >> many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT > Policy rather than > >> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks > there will be another > >> list for professionals and you will be informed (you > have the > >> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a > registration board > >> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and > Procurement > >> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on > unheralded. All we need > >> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. > >> Waudo > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John > Walubengo" > >> <[email protected]> said: > >>> Marcel, > >>> > >>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in > this > >>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was > restricted within KIF only? > I > >>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r > u there?) or > >>> Information Security Audit & Control > (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to > >>> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya > were involved. I beg to > >>> be enlightened. > >>> > >>> This brings in an old question - who really > represents the IT Profession > >>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying that > IT is the only > >>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with the > same authority as LSK > >>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of > Engineers of Kenya), Medical > >>> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate > the IT Profession. > >>> > >>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill > either (and has a > >>> different objective anyway). But time has come > to really start thinking > >>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we > struggle to regulate the > >>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on > this, but they have been > >>> awfully quite except when they award prizes at > the end of the year > (Waudo > >>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to > say it!). > >>> > >>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective particularly > in the Manufacturing > >>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as > effective - particularly > >>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT > industry has been 'cloudy' > >>> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK > or ISACA be part of > >>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to > be enlightened. > >>> > >>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just thinking > loudly and saying that as > >>> we think of regulating electronic transactions, > we also need to > >>> simultaneously start regulating the IT > profession..but maybe I am wrong. > >>> Particularly because regulation can and often > leads to suppression... > >>> > >>> walu. > >>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner > <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Marcel Werner > <[email protected]> > >>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > >>>> To: [email protected] > >>>> Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet > ICT Policy Discussions" > >> <[email protected]> > >>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM > >>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in > Kenya > >>>> > >>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # > 3 - Report - > >>>> Public Panel 19 > >>>> June 2008 > >>>> > >>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add > at least one > >>>> percent point growth > >>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth > within five years. > >>>> This is contingent > >>>> upon the adoption of legislation that > supports electronic > >>>> transactions. *Kenya, > >>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, > lags behind in > >>>> having a legal > >>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The > current situation is > >>>> an anachronism > >>>> hampering national development, placing > provincial centres > >>>> at a > >>>> disadvantage, and harming global > competitiveness. Both > >>>> external and internal > >>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan > private sector > >>>> strongly supports > >>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as > legislation of the > >>>> Information and > >>>> Communication Technology sector that > guarantees an open > >>>> market and promotes > >>>> innovation. > >>>> > >>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation > supporting > >>>> electronic transactions > >>>> represents the single most powerful > innovation opportunity > >>>> in the legal > >>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is > needed to: > >>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by > recognizing an > >>>> electronic signature > >>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
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-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: [email protected] cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
Dear Sylvester, Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities: Historical & present- Impact - Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA) - Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004, 2005, 2006) - E-Government - municipal councils - Open source software community - E-commerce legislation - Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008 - ICT Bills (2006 - 2008) - Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003) - National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006) - Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008 - National innovation system - University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current) - PSDS - Africon 2009 - Public panels with Kenya ICT Board Associations: - KEPSA - KIF - IEEE - Kenya software industry association Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support Kevit Desai Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section Chairman - Engineering students exhibition Governor - KEPSA Director - KEPSA Director - Innovation Africa Director- Kenya ICT Board Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation BOA - AIESEC Member - National Strategy for University Education Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750 Mobile: +254 722 517067 http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.ieee.org <http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke <http://www.engineeringexhibition.com/> http://www.innovation-africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.kepsa.or.ke <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> http://www.powerup.co.ke <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> http://www.aiesec.org <http://www.aiesec.org/> http://www.africon2007.co.za <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/> www.ict.go.ke <http://www.ict.go.ke/> http://www.globalcompact.org <http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb _____ From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: [email protected] Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Hi Sylvester, Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage. Regards, Brian On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo <[email protected]> wrote: And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved. SK From: [email protected] [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bskisonzo> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: [email protected] Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question: Why are these associations needed? Joe On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote: Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association??? Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM Hi Waudo,
As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful partnership.
Kevit Desai
_____
From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 To: Kevit Desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling KEPSA and KIF at the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote KIF at the expense of other associations. The explanation is very simple: KEPSA was formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised by INCLUSIVITY. KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the nature of such an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership mechanism). I would like to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT Board, not just KIF. Please give us space.
Waudo
On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with its own governance structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as KIF vice chairman.
KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry association, member of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman.
Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) private company, director, member of KIF.
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd
, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
htpp://www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
-----Original Message----- From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM To: kevit desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can answer it on
the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a rosy situation
including "collaboration" is simply not true. The reason to be frank is
that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other association to
have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could you as a
KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations including the
major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in KEPSA? It can be
sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote KIF and crack
down on those you feel are in the way.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai"
<[email protected]> said:
> Hi Walu,
> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I would like to confirm
> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would like to do a lot
> more
> and welcome more support.
> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last ministerial stakeholder
> forum.
> Collaboration is the way forward.
>
> Kevit Desai
> KEPSA Director
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit> [email protected] ]
> On Behalf Of waudo siganga
> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
e-Commerce in
> Kenya
>
> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS somewhere in the
> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT (or ICT) Profession
> on this list a few months ago. But the rather unenthusiastic response I
> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not
correct list since
> many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT Policy rather than
> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks there will be another
> list for professionals and you will be informed (you have the
> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a registration board
> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and Procurement
> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on unheralded. All we need
> is a champion or chanpions in the right place.
> Waudo
>
>
> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John Walubengo"
> <[email protected]> said:
>> Marcel,
>>
>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in this
>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was restricted within KIF only? I
>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r u there?) or
>> Information Security Audit & Control (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to
>> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya were involved. I beg to
>> be enlightened.
>>
>> This brings in an old question - who really represents the IT Profession
>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying
IT is the only
>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with
same authority as LSK
>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of Engineers of Kenya), Medical
>> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate the IT Profession.
>>
>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill either (and has a
>> different objective anyway). But time has come to really start thinking
>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we struggle to regulate the
>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on this, but they have been
>> awfully quite except when they award prizes at the end of the year (Waudo
>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to say it!).
>>
>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective
in the Manufacturing
>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as effective - particularly
>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT industry has been 'cloudy'
>> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK or ISACA be part of
>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to be enlightened.
>>
>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just
loudly and saying that as
>> we think of regulating electronic
Regulation for the that the particularly thinking transactions,
we also need to
>> simultaneously start regulating the IT profession..but maybe I am wrong.
>> Particularly because regulation can and often leads to suppression...
>>
>> walu.
>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Marcel Werner <[email protected]>
>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>>>
>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # 3 - Report -
>>> Public Panel 19
>>> June 2008
>>>
>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add at least one
>>> percent point growth
>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth within five years.
>>> This is contingent
>>> upon the adoption of legislation that supports electronic
>>> transactions. *Kenya,
>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, lags behind in
>>> having a legal
>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The current situation is
>>> an anachronism
>>> hampering national development, placing provincial centres
>>> at a
>>> disadvantage, and harming global competitiveness. Both
>>> external and internal
>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan private sector
>>> strongly supports
>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as legislation of the
>>> Information and
>>> Communication Technology sector that guarantees an open
>>> market and promotes
>>> innovation.
>>>
>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation supporting
>>> electronic transactions
>>> represents the single most powerful innovation opportunity
>>> in the legal
>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is needed to:
>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by recognizing an
>>> electronic signature
>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmail.com -- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com -- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: [email protected] cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
Kevit; KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR? Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?. regards, On 7/11/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector ā Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation ā wide awareness campaigns (2004, 2005, 2006)
- E-Government ā municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition ā 1997 ā 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 ā 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 ā 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 ā current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman ā Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo <[email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: kevit desai <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> > Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM > Hi Waudo, > > As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > association to full > membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful > partnership. > > > > > > Kevit Desai > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 > To: Kevit Desai > Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling > KEPSA and KIF at > the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote > KIF at the > expense of other associations. The explanation is very > simple: KEPSA was > formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised > by INCLUSIVITY. > KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the > nature of such > an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership > mechanism). I would like > to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT > Board, not just > KIF. Please give us space. > > Waudo > > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" > <[email protected]> said: > > Hi Alex, > > > > KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with > its own governance > structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as > KIF vice > chairman. > > > > KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry > association, member > of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. > > > > Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) > private company, > director, member of KIF. > > > > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd > > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section > > Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition > > Governor - KEPSA > > Director - KEPSA > > Director - Innovation Africa > > Director- Kenya ICT Board > > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation > > BOA - AIESEC > > Member - National Strategy for University Education > > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya > > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 > > > > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, > > Raphta Rd > > , Westlands -Nairobi > > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. > > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 > 2049750 > > Mobile: +254 722 517067 > > > > http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com > > http://www.ieee.org > > http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke > > http://www.innovation-africa.net > > http://www.kepsa.or.ke > > http://www.powerup.co.ke > > http://www.aiesec.org > > http://www.africon2007.co.za > > http://www.kif.or.ke > > htpp://www.ict.go.ke > > http://www.globalcompact.org > > http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM > To: kevit desai > Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can > answer it on > > the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a > rosy situation > > including "collaboration" is simply not true. The > reason to be frank is > > that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other > association to > > have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could > you as a > > KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations > including the > > major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in > KEPSA? It can be > > sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote > KIF and crack > > down on those you feel are in the way. > > Waudo > > > > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai" > > <[email protected]> said: > >> Hi Walu, > >> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I > would like to confirm > >> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would > like to do a lot > >> more > >> and welcome more support. > >> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last > ministerial stakeholder > >> forum. > >> Collaboration is the way forward. > >> > >> Kevit Desai > >> KEPSA Director > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: >
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >> >
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
] > >> On Behalf Of waudo siganga > >> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 > >> To: [email protected] > >> Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions > >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in > >> Kenya > >> > >> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS > somewhere in the > >> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT > (or ICT) Profession > >> on this list a few months ago. But the rather > unenthusiastic response I > >> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not the > correct list since > >> many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT > Policy rather than > >> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks > there will be another > >> list for professionals and you will be informed (you > have the > >> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a > registration board > >> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and > Procurement > >> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on > unheralded. All we need > >> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. > >> Waudo > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John > Walubengo" > >> <[email protected]> said: > >>> Marcel, > >>> > >>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in > this > >>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was > restricted within KIF only? > I > >>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r > u there?) or > >>> Information Security Audit & Control > (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to > >>> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya > were involved. I beg to > >>> be enlightened. > >>> > >>> This brings in an old question - who really > represents the IT Profession > >>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying that > IT is the only > >>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with the > same authority as LSK > >>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of > Engineers of Kenya), Medical > >>> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate > the IT Profession. > >>> > >>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill > either (and has a > >>> different objective anyway). But time has come > to really start thinking > >>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we > struggle to regulate the > >>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on > this, but they have been > >>> awfully quite except when they award prizes at > the end of the year > (Waudo > >>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to > say it!). > >>> > >>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective particularly > in the Manufacturing > >>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as > effective - particularly > >>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT > industry has been 'cloudy' > >>> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK > or ISACA be part of > >>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to > be enlightened. > >>> > >>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just thinking > loudly and saying that as > >>> we think of regulating electronic transactions, > we also need to > >>> simultaneously start regulating the IT > profession..but maybe I am wrong. > >>> Particularly because regulation can and often > leads to suppression... > >>> > >>> walu. > >>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner > <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Marcel Werner > <[email protected]> > >>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > >>>> To: [email protected] > >>>> Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet > ICT Policy Discussions" > >> <[email protected]> > >>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM > >>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in > Kenya > >>>> > >>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # > 3 - Report - > >>>> Public Panel 19 > >>>> June 2008 > >>>> > >>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add > at least one > >>>> percent point growth > >>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth > within five years. > >>>> This is contingent > >>>> upon the adoption of legislation that > supports electronic > >>>> transactions. *Kenya, > >>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, > lags behind in > >>>> having a legal > >>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The > current situation is > >>>> an anachronism > >>>> hampering national development, placing > provincial centres > >>>> at a > >>>> disadvantage, and harming global > competitiveness. Both > >>>> external and internal > >>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan > private sector > >>>> strongly supports > >>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as > legislation of the > >>>> Information and > >>>> Communication Technology sector that > guarantees an open > >>>> market and promotes > >>>> innovation. > >>>> > >>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation > supporting > >>>> electronic transactions > >>>> represents the single most powerful > innovation opportunity > >>>> in the legal > >>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is > needed to: > >>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by > recognizing an > >>>> electronic signature > >>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false. It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation. For now I close my participation. Kevit Desai -----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Kevit; KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR? Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?. regards, On 7/11/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004,
2005,
2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke]
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo <[email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: kevit desai <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> > Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM > Hi Waudo, > > As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > association to full > membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful > partnership. > > > > > > Kevit Desai > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 > To: Kevit Desai > Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling > KEPSA and KIF at > the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote > KIF at the > expense of other associations. The explanation is very > simple: KEPSA was > formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised > by INCLUSIVITY. > KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the > nature of such > an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership > mechanism). I would like > to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT > Board, not just > KIF. Please give us space. > > Waudo > > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" > <[email protected]> said: > > Hi Alex, > > > > KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with > its own governance > structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as > KIF vice > chairman. > > > > KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry > association, member > of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. > > > > Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) > private company, > director, member of KIF. > > > > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd > > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section > > Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition > > Governor - KEPSA > > Director - KEPSA > > Director - Innovation Africa > > Director- Kenya ICT Board > > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation > > BOA - AIESEC > > Member - National Strategy for University Education > > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya > > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 > > > > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, > > Raphta Rd > > , Westlands -Nairobi > > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. > > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 > 2049750 > > Mobile: +254 722 517067 > > > > http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com > > http://www.ieee.org > > http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke > > http://www.innovation-africa.net > > http://www.kepsa.or.ke > > http://www.powerup.co.ke > > http://www.aiesec.org > > http://www.africon2007.co.za > > http://www.kif.or.ke > > htpp://www.ict.go.ke > > http://www.globalcompact.org > > http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM > To: kevit desai > Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can > answer it on > > the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a > rosy situation > > including "collaboration" is simply not true. The > reason to be frank is > > that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other > association to > > have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could > you as a > > KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations > including the > > major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in > KEPSA? It can be > > sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote > KIF and crack > > down on those you feel are in the way. > > Waudo > > > > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai" > > <[email protected]> said: > >> Hi Walu, > >> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I > would like to confirm > >> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would > like to do a lot > >> more > >> and welcome more support. > >> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last > ministerial stakeholder > >> forum. > >> Collaboration is the way forward. > >> > >> Kevit Desai > >> KEPSA Director > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: >
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >> >
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
] > >> On Behalf Of waudo siganga > >> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 > >> To: [email protected] > >> Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions > >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in > >> Kenya > >> > >> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS > somewhere in the > >> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT > (or ICT) Profession > >> on this list a few months ago. But the rather > unenthusiastic response I > >> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not the > correct list since > >> many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT > Policy rather than > >> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks > there will be another > >> list for professionals and you will be informed (you > have the > >> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a > registration board > >> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and > Procurement > >> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on > unheralded. All we need > >> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. > >> Waudo > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John > Walubengo" > >> <[email protected]> said: > >>> Marcel, > >>> > >>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in > this > >>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was > restricted within KIF only? > I > >>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r > u there?) or > >>> Information Security Audit & Control > (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to > >>> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya > were involved. I beg to > >>> be enlightened. > >>> > >>> This brings in an old question - who really > represents the IT Profession > >>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying that > IT is the only > >>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with the > same authority as LSK > >>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of > Engineers of Kenya), Medical > >>> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate > the IT Profession. > >>> > >>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill > either (and has a > >>> different objective anyway). But time has come > to really start thinking > >>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we > struggle to regulate the > >>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on > this, but they have been > >>> awfully quite except when they award prizes at > the end of the year > (Waudo > >>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to > say it!). > >>> > >>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective particularly > in the Manufacturing > >>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as > effective - particularly > >>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT > industry has been 'cloudy' > >>> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK > or ISACA be part of > >>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to > be enlightened. > >>> > >>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just thinking > loudly and saying that as > >>> we think of regulating electronic transactions, > we also need to > >>> simultaneously start regulating the IT > profession..but maybe I am wrong. > >>> Particularly because regulation can and often > leads to suppression... > >>> > >>> walu. > >>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner > <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Marcel Werner > <[email protected]> > >>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > >>>> To: [email protected] > >>>> Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet > ICT Policy Discussions" > >> <[email protected]> > >>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM > >>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in > Kenya > >>>> > >>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # > 3 - Report - > >>>> Public Panel 19 > >>>> June 2008 > >>>> > >>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add > at least one > >>>> percent point growth > >>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth > within five years. > >>>> This is contingent > >>>> upon the adoption of legislation that > supports electronic > >>>> transactions. *Kenya, > >>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, > lags behind in > >>>> having a legal > >>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The > current situation is > >>>> an anachronism > >>>> hampering national development, placing > provincial centres > >>>> at a > >>>> disadvantage, and harming global > competitiveness. Both > >>>> external and internal > >>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan > private sector > >>>> strongly supports > >>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as > legislation of the > >>>> Information and > >>>> Communication Technology sector that > guarantees an open > >>>> market and promotes > >>>> innovation. > >>>> > >>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation > supporting > >>>> electronic transactions > >>>> represents the single most powerful > innovation opportunity > >>>> in the legal > >>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is > needed to: > >>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by > recognizing an > >>>> electronic signature > >>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false. It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation. For now I close my participation. Kevit Desai -----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Kevit; KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR? Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?. regards, On 7/11/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004,
2005,
2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke]
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo <[email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: kevit desai <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> > Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM > Hi Waudo, > > As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > association to full > membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful > partnership. > > > > > > Kevit Desai > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 > To: Kevit Desai > Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling > KEPSA and KIF at > the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote > KIF at the > expense of other associations. The explanation is very > simple: KEPSA was > formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised > by INCLUSIVITY. > KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the > nature of such > an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership > mechanism). I would like > to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT > Board, not just > KIF. Please give us space. > > Waudo > > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" > <[email protected]> said: > > Hi Alex, > > > > KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with > its own governance > structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as > KIF vice > chairman. > > > > KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry > association, member > of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. > > > > Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) > private company, > director, member of KIF. > > > > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd > > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section > > Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition > > Governor - KEPSA > > Director - KEPSA > > Director - Innovation Africa > > Director- Kenya ICT Board > > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation > > BOA - AIESEC > > Member - National Strategy for University Education > > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya > > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 > > > > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, > > Raphta Rd > > , Westlands -Nairobi > > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. > > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 > 2049750 > > Mobile: +254 722 517067 > > > > http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com > > http://www.ieee.org > > http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke > > http://www.innovation-africa.net > > http://www.kepsa.or.ke > > http://www.powerup.co.ke > > http://www.aiesec.org > > http://www.africon2007.co.za > > http://www.kif.or.ke > > htpp://www.ict.go.ke > > http://www.globalcompact.org > > http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM > To: kevit desai > Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can > answer it on > > the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a > rosy situation > > including "collaboration" is simply not true. The > reason to be frank is > > that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other > association to > > have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could > you as a > > KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations > including the > > major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in > KEPSA? It can be > > sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote > KIF and crack > > down on those you feel are in the way. > > Waudo > > > > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai" > > <[email protected]> said: > >> Hi Walu, > >> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I > would like to confirm > >> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would > like to do a lot > >> more > >> and welcome more support. > >> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last > ministerial stakeholder > >> forum. > >> Collaboration is the way forward. > >> > >> Kevit Desai > >> KEPSA Director > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: >
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >> >
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
] > >> On Behalf Of waudo siganga > >> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 > >> To: [email protected] > >> Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions > >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in > >> Kenya > >> > >> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS > somewhere in the > >> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT > (or ICT) Profession > >> on this list a few months ago. But the rather > unenthusiastic response I > >> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not the > correct list since > >> many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT > Policy rather than > >> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks > there will be another > >> list for professionals and you will be informed (you > have the > >> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a > registration board > >> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and > Procurement > >> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on > unheralded. All we need > >> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. > >> Waudo > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John > Walubengo" > >> <[email protected]> said: > >>> Marcel, > >>> > >>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in > this > >>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was > restricted within KIF only? > I > >>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r > u there?) or > >>> Information Security Audit & Control > (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to > >>> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya > were involved. I beg to > >>> be enlightened. > >>> > >>> This brings in an old question - who really > represents the IT Profession > >>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying that > IT is the only > >>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with the > same authority as LSK > >>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of > Engineers of Kenya), Medical > >>> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate > the IT Profession. > >>> > >>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill > either (and has a > >>> different objective anyway). But time has come > to really start thinking > >>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we > struggle to regulate the > >>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on > this, but they have been > >>> awfully quite except when they award prizes at > the end of the year > (Waudo > >>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to > say it!). > >>> > >>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective particularly > in the Manufacturing > >>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as > effective - particularly > >>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT > industry has been 'cloudy' > >>> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK > or ISACA be part of > >>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to > be enlightened. > >>> > >>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just thinking > loudly and saying that as > >>> we think of regulating electronic transactions, > we also need to > >>> simultaneously start regulating the IT > profession..but maybe I am wrong. > >>> Particularly because regulation can and often > leads to suppression... > >>> > >>> walu. > >>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner > <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Marcel Werner > <[email protected]> > >>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > >>>> To: [email protected] > >>>> Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet > ICT Policy Discussions" > >> <[email protected]> > >>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM > >>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in > Kenya > >>>> > >>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # > 3 - Report - > >>>> Public Panel 19 > >>>> June 2008 > >>>> > >>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add > at least one > >>>> percent point growth > >>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth > within five years. > >>>> This is contingent > >>>> upon the adoption of legislation that > supports electronic > >>>> transactions. *Kenya, > >>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, > lags behind in > >>>> having a legal > >>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The > current situation is > >>>> an anachronism > >>>> hampering national development, placing > provincial centres > >>>> at a > >>>> disadvantage, and harming global > competitiveness. Both > >>>> external and internal > >>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan > private sector > >>>> strongly supports > >>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as > legislation of the > >>>> Information and > >>>> Communication Technology sector that > guarantees an open > >>>> market and promotes > >>>> innovation. > >>>> > >>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation > supporting > >>>> electronic transactions > >>>> represents the single most powerful > innovation opportunity > >>>> in the legal > >>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is > needed to: > >>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by > recognizing an > >>>> electronic signature > >>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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Hello Kictanet membership, The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies. KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week). Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable. The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance ā I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members". We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house. We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense. Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :) 2008/7/11 kevit desai <[email protected]>:
Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false.
It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation.
For now I close my participation.
Kevit Desai
-----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit;
KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR?
Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?.
regards,
On 7/11/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004,
2005,
2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= [email protected]]
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo <[email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: [email protected] [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo <kictanet-bounces%2Bskisonzo>= [email protected]] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: kevit desai <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce > in Kenya > To: [email protected] > Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> > Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM > Hi Alex, > > I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can. > > Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and > market segment > associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: > KEPSA decisions > are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from > the private > sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for > membership in KEPSA, neither > are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows > the same approach > for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and > government agencies are > member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR > BASIS with all > those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no > obligation to > offer service to non members. > > Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam > Mwaura of KEPSA or > Marcel Werner of KIF. > > > Kevit > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 > To: kevit desai > Cc: kictanet-lists > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > Kevit, > > > How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions > independence? > The political issue here may be monopolization to the > extent of clouding out > other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory > steps in. > > We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' > attitude towards > cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments > with different > degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no > competition at all up > to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute > generously to a public > project in the absence of competition, whereas they > contribute very little > in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A > diminishing attitude > towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of > competition increases. > Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the > maximum degree of > competition may be not efficient. > >
< http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
> 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb> > > react. > > > --- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: kevit desai > <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya >> To: [email protected] >> Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT > Policy Discussions'" > <[email protected]> >> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM >> Hi Waudo, >> >> As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other >> association to full >> membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful >> partnership. >> >> >> >> >> >> Kevit Desai >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 >> To: Kevit Desai >> Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions' >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in Kenya >> >> >> >> Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when > handling >> KEPSA and KIF at >> the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to > promote >> KIF at the >> expense of other associations. The explanation is very >> simple: KEPSA was >> formed as a focal point, a bringing together > characterised >> by INCLUSIVITY. >> KIF on the other hand is an independent association > and the >> nature of such >> an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership >> mechanism). I would like >> to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA > ICT >> Board, not just >> KIF. Please give us space. >> >> Waudo >> >> >> >> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit > Desai" >> <[email protected]> said: >> >> Hi Alex, >> >> >> >> KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body > with >> its own governance >> structure. Elected as a director in private capacity > and as >> KIF vice >> chairman. >> >> >> >> KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry >> association, member >> of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. >> >> >> >> Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) >> private company, >> director, member of KIF. >> >> >> >> Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd >> >> Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section >> >> Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition >> >> Governor - KEPSA >> >> Director - KEPSA >> >> Director - Innovation Africa >> >> Director- Kenya ICT Board >> >> Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation >> >> BOA - AIESEC >> >> Member - National Strategy for University Education >> >> Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP > Kenya >> >> General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 >> >> >> >> 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, >> >> Raphta Rd >> >> , Westlands -Nairobi >> >> P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. >> >> Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 >> 2049750 >> >> Mobile: +254 722 517067 >> >> >> >> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com >> >> http://www.ieee.org >> >> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke >> >> http://www.innovation-africa.net >> >> http://www.kepsa.or.ke >> >> http://www.powerup.co.ke >> >> http://www.aiesec.org >> >> http://www.africon2007.co.za >> >> http://www.kif.or.ke >> >> htpp://www.ict.go.ke >> >> http://www.globalcompact.org >> >> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM >> To: kevit desai >> Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions' >> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in Kenya >> >> >> >> Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET > I can >> answer it on >> >> the same forum. I think the picture being painted > about a >> rosy situation >> >> including "collaboration" is simply not > true. The >> reason to be frank is >> >> that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other >> association to >> >> have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. > Could >> you as a >> >> KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations >> including the >> >> major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute > in >> KEPSA? It can be >> >> sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to > promote >> KIF and crack >> >> down on those you feel are in the way. >> >> Waudo >> >> >> >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit > desai" >> >> <[email protected]> said: >> >>> Hi Walu, >> >>> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. > I >> would like to confirm >> >>> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We > would >> like to do a lot >> >>> more >> >>> and welcome more support. >> >>> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our > last >> ministerial stakeholder >> >>> forum. >> >>> Collaboration is the way forward. >> >>> >> >>> Kevit Desai >> >>> KEPSA Director >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: >> > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> >>> >> >
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= [email protected]
> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of waudo siganga >> >>> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 >> >>> To: [email protected] >> >>> Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions >> >>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for >> e-Commerce in >> >>> Kenya >> >>> >> >>> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on > GPRS >> somewhere in the >> >>> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the > IT >> (or ICT) Profession >> >>> on this list a few months ago. But the rather >> unenthusiastic response I >> >>> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not > the >> correct list since >> >>> many of the subscribers appear just interested in > ICT >> Policy rather than >> >>> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two > weeks >> there will be another >> >>> list for professionals and you will be informed > (you >> have the >> >>> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing > for a >> registration board >> >>> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and >> Procurement >> >>> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on >> unheralded. All we need >> >>> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. >> >>> Waudo >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), > "John >> Walubengo" >> >>> <[email protected]> said: >> >>>> Marcel, >> >>>> >> >>>> It looks like quite some work has been > ongoing in >> this >> >>>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was >> restricted within KIF only? >> I >> >>>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, > Waudo r >> u there?) or >> >>>> Information Security Audit & Control >> (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to >> >>>> mention some of the big IT Associations in > Kenya >> were involved. I beg to >> >>>> be enlightened. >> >>>> >> >>>> This brings in an old question - who really >> represents the IT Profession >> >>>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying > that >> IT is the only >> >>>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with > the >> same authority as LSK >> >>>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of >> Engineers of Kenya), Medical >> >>>> Practictioners Board amongst others to > regulate >> the IT Profession. >> >>>> >> >>>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the > bill >> either (and has a >> >>>> different objective anyway). But time has > come >> to really start thinking >> >>>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we >> struggle to regulate the >> >>>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead > on >> this, but they have been >> >>>> awfully quite except when they award prizes > at >> the end of the year >> (Waudo >> >>>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had > to >> say it!). >> >>>> >> >>>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective > particularly >> in the Manufacturing >> >>>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been > as >> effective - particularly >> >>>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the > IT >> industry has been 'cloudy' >> >>>> for lack of a better word...Can for example > CSK >> or ISACA be part of >> >>>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again > need to >> be enlightened. >> >>>> >> >>>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just > thinking >> loudly and saying that as >> >>>> we think of regulating electronic > transactions, >> we also need to >> >>>> simultaneously start regulating the IT >> profession..but maybe I am wrong. >> >>>> Particularly because regulation can and > often >> leads to suppression... >> >>>> >> >>>> walu. >> >>>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> From: Marcel Werner >> <[email protected]> >> >>>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and >> Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya >> >>>>> To: [email protected] >> >>>>> Cc: [email protected], > "KICTAnet >> ICT Policy Discussions" >> >>> <[email protected]> >> >>>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM >> >>>>> Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in >> Kenya >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing > Note # >> 3 - Report - >> >>>>> Public Panel 19 >> >>>>> June 2008 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will > add >> at least one >> >>>>> percent point growth >> >>>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth >> within five years. >> >>>>> This is contingent >> >>>>> upon the adoption of legislation that >> supports electronic >> >>>>> transactions. *Kenya, >> >>>>> as an emerging economy and regional > leader, >> lags behind in >> >>>>> having a legal >> >>>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The >> current situation is >> >>>>> an anachronism >> >>>>> hampering national development, placing >> provincial centres >> >>>>> at a >> >>>>> disadvantage, and harming global >> competitiveness. Both >> >>>>> external and internal >> >>>>> trade require the new framework.The > Kenyan >> private sector >> >>>>> strongly supports >> >>>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as >> legislation of the >> >>>>> Information and >> >>>>> Communication Technology sector that >> guarantees an open >> >>>>> market and promotes >> >>>>> innovation. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation >> supporting >> >>>>> electronic transactions >> >>>>> represents the single most powerful >> innovation opportunity >> >>>>> in the legal >> >>>>> framework of the ICT sector. > Legislation is >> needed to: >> >>>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by >> recognizing an >> >>>>> electronic signature >> >>>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected]
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People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
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Dear Marcel, I have observed the targetted and gradual increase in allegations toward KIF/Kepsa with much concern. Despite both Kevit and my recommendation that those who are curious should visit KIf meetings to familiarize, their continute to be such serious accusations. This is wrong. Alex, I think you need to apologize.... Brian Sent from my iPhone On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, "Marcel Werner" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello Kictanet membership,
The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies.
KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week).
Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable.
The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/ ) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance ā I have to conclude to day that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet) . We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members".
We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house.
We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense.
Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :)
2008/7/11 kevit desai <[email protected]>: Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false.
It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation.
For now I close my participation.
Kevit Desai
-----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit;
KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR?
Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?.
regards,
On 7/11/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral
discussions
private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004, 2005, 2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo <[email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]
wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella
actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]
wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being
ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that
KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public
participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke ] body was the KEPSA the policy procurement
involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: kevit desai <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e- Commerce > in Kenya > To: [email protected] > Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> > Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM > Hi Alex, > > I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can. > > Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and > market segment > associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: > KEPSA decisions > are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from > the private > sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for > membership in KEPSA, neither > are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows > the same approach > for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and > government agencies are > member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR > BASIS with all > those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no > obligation to > offer service to non members. > > Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam > Mwaura of KEPSA or > Marcel Werner of KIF. > > > Kevit > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 > To: kevit desai > Cc: kictanet-lists > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > Kevit, > > > How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions > independence? > The political issue here may be monopolization to the > extent of clouding out > other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory > steps in. > > We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' > attitude towards > cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments > with different > degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no > competition at all up > to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute > generously to a public > project in the absence of competition, whereas they > contribute very little > in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A > diminishing attitude > towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of > competition increases. > Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the > maximum degree of > competition may be not efficient. > >
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
> 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb> > > react. > > > --- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: kevit desai > <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya >> To: [email protected] >> Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT > Policy Discussions'" > <[email protected]> >> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM >> Hi Waudo, >> >> As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other >> association to full >> membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful >> partnership. >> >> >> >> >> >> Kevit Desai >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 >> To: Kevit Desai >> Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions' >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in Kenya >> >> >> >> Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when > handling >> KEPSA and KIF at >> the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to > promote >> KIF at the >> expense of other associations. The explanation is very >> simple: KEPSA was >> formed as a focal point, a bringing together > characterised >> by INCLUSIVITY. >> KIF on the other hand is an independent association > and the >> nature of such >> an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership >> mechanism). I would like >> to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA > ICT >> Board, not just >> KIF. Please give us space. >> >> Waudo >> >> >> >> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit > Desai" >> <[email protected]> said: >> >> Hi Alex, >> >> >> >> KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body > with >> its own governance >> structure. Elected as a director in private capacity > and as >> KIF vice >> chairman. >> >> >> >> KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry >> association, member >> of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. >> >> >> >> Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) >> private company, >> director, member of KIF. >> >> >> >> Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd >> >> Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section >> >> Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition >> >> Governor - KEPSA >> >> Director - KEPSA >> >> Director - Innovation Africa >> >> Director- Kenya ICT Board >> >> Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation >> >> BOA - AIESEC >> >> Member - National Strategy for University Education >> >> Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP > Kenya >> >> General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 >> >> >> >> 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, >> >> Raphta Rd >> >> , Westlands -Nairobi >> >> P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. >> >> Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 >> 2049750 >> >> Mobile: +254 722 517067 >> >> >> >> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com >> >> http://www.ieee.org >> >> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke >> >> http://www.innovation-africa.net >> >> http://www.kepsa.or.ke >> >> http://www.powerup.co.ke >> >> http://www.aiesec.org >> >> http://www.africon2007.co.za >> >> http://www.kif.or.ke >> >> htpp://www.ict.go.ke >> >> http://www.globalcompact.org >> >> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM >> To: kevit desai >> Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions' >> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in Kenya >> >> >> >> Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET > I can >> answer it on >> >> the same forum. I think the picture being painted > about a >> rosy situation >> >> including "collaboration" is simply not > true. The >> reason to be frank is >> >> that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other >> association to >> >> have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. > Could >> you as a >> >> KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations >> including the >> >> major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute > in >> KEPSA? It can be >> >> sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to > promote >> KIF and crack >> >> down on those you feel are in the way. >> >> Waudo >> >> >> >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit > desai" >> >> <[email protected]> said: >> >>> Hi Walu, >> >>> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. > I >> would like to confirm >> >>> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We > would >> like to do a lot >> >>> more >> >>> and welcome more support. >> >>> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our > last >> ministerial stakeholder >> >>> forum. >> >>> Collaboration is the way forward. >> >>> >> >>> Kevit Desai >> >>> KEPSA Director >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: >> > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> >>> >> >
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of waudo siganga >> >>> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 >> >>> To: [email protected] >> >>> Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions >> >>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for >> e-Commerce in >> >>> Kenya >> >>> >> >>> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on > GPRS >> somewhere in the >> >>> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the > IT >> (or ICT) Profession >> >>> on this list a few months ago. But the rather >> unenthusiastic response I >> >>> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not > the >> correct list since >> >>> many of the subscribers appear just interested in > ICT >> Policy rather than >> >>> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two > weeks >> there will be another >> >>> list for professionals and you will be informed > (you >> have the >> >>> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing > for a >> registration board >> >>> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and >> Procurement >> >>> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on >> unheralded. All we need >> >>> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. >> >>> Waudo >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), > "John >> Walubengo" >> >>> <[email protected]> said: >> >>>> Marcel, >> >>>> >> >>>> It looks like quite some work has been > ongoing in >> this >> >>>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was >> restricted within KIF only? >> I >> >>>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, > Waudo r >> u there?) or >> >>>> Information Security Audit & Control >> (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to >> >>>> mention some of the big IT Associations in > Kenya >> were involved. I beg to >> >>>> be enlightened. >> >>>> >> >>>> This brings in an old question - who really >> represents the IT Profession >> >>>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying > that >> IT is the only >> >>>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with > the >> same authority as LSK >> >>>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of >> Engineers of Kenya), Medical >> >>>> Practictioners Board amongst others to > regulate >> the IT Profession. >> >>>> >> >>>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the > bill >> either (and has a >> >>>> different objective anyway). But time has > come >> to really start thinking >> >>>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we >> struggle to regulate the >> >>>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead > on >> this, but they have been >> >>>> awfully quite except when they award prizes > at >> the end of the year >> (Waudo >> >>>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had > to >> say it!). >> >>>> >> >>>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective > particularly >> in the Manufacturing >> >>>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been > as >> effective - particularly >> >>>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the > IT >> industry has been 'cloudy' >> >>>> for lack of a better word...Can for example > CSK >> or ISACA be part of >> >>>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again > need to >> be enlightened. >> >>>> >> >>>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just > thinking >> loudly and saying that as >> >>>> we think of regulating electronic > transactions, >> we also need to >> >>>> simultaneously start regulating the IT >> profession..but maybe I am wrong. >> >>>> Particularly because regulation can and > often >> leads to suppression... >> >>>> >> >>>> walu. >> >>>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> From: Marcel Werner >> <[email protected]> >> >>>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and >> Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya >> >>>>> To: [email protected] >> >>>>> Cc: [email protected], > "KICTAnet >> ICT Policy Discussions" >> >>> <[email protected]> >> >>>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM >> >>>>> Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in >> Kenya >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing > Note # >> 3 - Report - >> >>>>> Public Panel 19 >> >>>>> June 2008 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will > add >> at least one >> >>>>> percent point growth >> >>>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth >> within five years. >> >>>>> This is contingent >> >>>>> upon the adoption of legislation that >> supports electronic >> >>>>> transactions. *Kenya, >> >>>>> as an emerging economy and regional > leader, >> lags behind in >> >>>>> having a legal >> >>>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The >> current situation is >> >>>>> an anachronism >> >>>>> hampering national development, placing >> provincial centres >> >>>>> at a >> >>>>> disadvantage, and harming global >> competitiveness. Both >> >>>>> external and internal >> >>>>> trade require the new framework.The > Kenyan >> private sector >> >>>>> strongly supports >> >>>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as >> legislation of the >> >>>>> Information and >> >>>>> Communication Technology sector that >> guarantees an open >> >>>>> market and promotes >> >>>>> innovation. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation >> supporting >> >>>>> electronic transactions >> >>>>> represents the single most powerful >> innovation opportunity >> >>>>> in the legal >> >>>>> framework of the ICT sector. > Legislation is >> needed to: >> >>>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by >> recognizing an >> >>>>> electronic signature >> >>>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected]
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-- MARCEL
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Dear Marcel It is not KICTANET that is being called to respond to their governance structures and certain issues of transparency ...it is KIF. You claim to be the voice if ICT private sector and many have never heard of you. You have been requested by interested Kenyan's not KICTAnet to respond to issues that touch on membership and conflict of interest instead you get defensive. Very Kenyan politician kind of reaction...but then again you are not Kenyan and that is another issue altogether is it not. regards wambui Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:44:45 +0300 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya CC: [email protected] To: [email protected] Hello Kictanet membership, The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies. KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week). Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable.The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance ā I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members". We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house. We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense. Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :) 2008/7/11 kevit desai <[email protected]>: Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false. It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation. For now I close my participation. Kevit Desai -----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Kevit; KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR? Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?. regards, On 7/11/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further
information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions
private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004,
2005,
2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge
level
of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant
leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board.
We
need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
www.ict.go.ke
________________________________
From:
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke]
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe
Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57
Cc: kictanet-lists
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in
Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET
is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so
many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own
decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo
<[email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me?
KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never
heard
of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been
involved.
SK
From:
[mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi
Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47
Cc: kictanet-lists
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in
Kenya
Waudo:
I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]>
wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The
idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind
that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW
association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was
actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did
someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right
track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure
it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on
someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover
there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the
front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT
Board not being equated with KIF.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe"
<[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when
KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa
to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am
right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner
workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]>
wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the
internal
operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/
KIF
relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community.
For
your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA
and
decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector
associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto
stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately
represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with
this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the
KEPSA
ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a
favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the
KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other
associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions"
instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the
MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA
but I
am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe"
<[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to
you
about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and
anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next
KIF
meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]>
wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you
further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told
Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other
association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now
appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of
"exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be
wrong
but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry
Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market
the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see
announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies
Act
( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company?
I
found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and
OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET
Registrar: TUCOWS INC.
Whois Server: whois.tucows.com
Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net
Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET
Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET
Status: redemptionPeriod
Updated Date: 24-jun-2008
Creation Date: 14-may-2007
Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >>
www.kif.or.ke
( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion
Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background
when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how
representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in
trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy
participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement
involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs
abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai
wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce
in Kenya
Cc: "'kictanet-lists'"
Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM
Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and
market segment
associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence:
KEPSA decisions
are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from
the private
sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for
membership in KEPSA, neither
are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows
the same approach
for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and
government agencies are
member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR
BASIS with all
those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no
obligation to
offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam
Mwaura of KEPSA or
Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45
To: kevit desai
Cc: kictanet-lists
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions
independence?
The political issue here may be monopolization to the
extent of clouding out
other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory
steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects'
attitude towards
cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments
with different
degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no
competition at all up
to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute
generously to a public
project in the absence of competition, whereas they
contribute very little
in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A
diminishing attitude
towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of
competition increases.
Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the
maximum degree of
competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai
<[email protected]> wrote:
> From: kevit desai
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
e-Commerce in Kenya
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT
Policy Discussions'"
> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM
> Hi Waudo,
>
> As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other
> association to full
> membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful
> partnership.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kevit Desai
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: waudo siganga
[mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55
> To: Kevit Desai
> Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy
> Discussions'
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
> e-Commerce in Kenya
>
>
>
> Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when
handling
> KEPSA and KIF at
> the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to
promote
> KIF at the
> expense of other associations. The explanation is very
> simple: KEPSA was
> formed as a focal point, a bringing together
characterised
> by INCLUSIVITY.
> KIF on the other hand is an independent association
and the
> nature of such
> an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership
> mechanism). I would like
> to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA
ICT
> Board, not just
> KIF. Please give us space.
>
> Waudo
>
>
>
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit
Desai"
> <[email protected]> said:
>
> Hi Alex,
>
>
>
> KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body
with
> its own governance
> structure. Elected as a director in private capacity
and as
> KIF vice
> chairman.
>
>
>
> KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry
> association, member
> of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman.
>
>
>
> Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com)
> private company,
> director, member of KIF.
>
>
>
> Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd
>
> Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
>
> Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition
>
> Governor - KEPSA
>
> Director - KEPSA
>
> Director - Innovation Africa
>
> Director- Kenya ICT Board
>
> Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
>
> BOA - AIESEC
>
> Member - National Strategy for University Education
>
> Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP
Kenya
>
> General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
>
>
>
> 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
>
> Raphta Rd
>
> , Westlands -Nairobi
>
> P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
>
> Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020
> 2049750
>
> Mobile: +254 722 517067
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> htpp://www.ict.go.ke
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: waudo siganga
[mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM
> To: kevit desai
> Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy
> Discussions'
> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
> e-Commerce in Kenya
>
>
>
> Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET
I can
> answer it on
>
> the same forum. I think the picture being painted
about a
> rosy situation
>
> including "collaboration" is simply not
true. The
> reason to be frank is
>
> that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other
> association to
>
> have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government.
Could
> you as a
>
> KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations
> including the
>
> major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute
in
> KEPSA? It can be
>
> sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to
promote
> KIF and crack
>
> down on those you feel are in the way.
>
> Waudo
>
>
>
> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit
desai"
>
> <[email protected]> said:
>
>> Hi Walu,
>
>> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA.
I
> would like to confirm
>
>> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We
would
> like to do a lot
>
>> more
>
>> and welcome more support.
>
>> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our
last
> ministerial stakeholder
>
>> forum.
>
>> Collaboration is the way forward.
>
>>
>
>> Kevit Desai
>
>> KEPSA Director
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From:
>
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>
>>
>
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
]
>
>> On Behalf Of waudo siganga
>
>> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02
>
>> To: [email protected]
>
>> Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy
> Discussions
>
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
Regulation for
> e-Commerce in
>
>> Kenya
>
>>
>
>> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on
GPRS
> somewhere in the
>
>> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the
IT
> (or ICT) Profession
>
>> on this list a few months ago. But the rather
> unenthusiastic response I
>
>> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not
the
> correct list since
>
>> many of the subscribers appear just interested in
ICT
> Policy rather than
>
>> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two
weeks
> there will be another
>
>> list for professionals and you will be informed
(you
> have the
>
>> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing
for a
> registration board
>
>> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and
> Procurement
>
>> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on
> unheralded. All we need
>
>> is a champion or chanpions in the right place.
>
>> Waudo
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT),
"John
> Walubengo"
>
>> <[email protected]> said:
>
>>> Marcel,
>
>>>
>
>>> It looks like quite some work has been
ongoing in
> this
>
>>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was
> restricted within KIF only?
> I
>
>>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK,
Waudo r
> u there?) or
>
>>> Information Security Audit & Control
> (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to
>
>>> mention some of the big IT Associations in
Kenya
> were involved. I beg to
>
>>> be enlightened.
>
>>>
>
>>> This brings in an old question - who really
> represents the IT Profession
>
>>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying
that
> IT is the only
>
>>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with
the
> same authority as LSK
>
>>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of
> Engineers of Kenya), Medical
>
>>> Practictioners Board amongst others to
regulate
> the IT Profession.
>
>>>
>
>>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the
bill
> either (and has a
>
>>> different objective anyway). But time has
come
> to really start thinking
>
>>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we
> struggle to regulate the
>
>>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead
on
> this, but they have been
>
>>> awfully quite except when they award prizes
at
> the end of the year
> (Waudo
>
>>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had
to
> say it!).
>
>>>
>
>>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective
particularly
> in the Manufacturing
>
>>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been
as
> effective - particularly
>
>>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the
IT
> industry has been 'cloudy'
>
>>> for lack of a better word...Can for example
CSK
> or ISACA be part of
>
>>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again
need to
> be enlightened.
>
>>>
>
>>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just
thinking
> loudly and saying that as
>
>>> we think of regulating electronic
transactions,
> we also need to
>
>>> simultaneously start regulating the IT
> profession..but maybe I am wrong.
>
>>> Particularly because regulation can and
often
> leads to suppression...
>
>>>
>
>>> walu.
>
>>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>
>
>>>> From: Marcel Werner
>
>>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and
> Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>
>>>> To: [email protected]
>
>>>> Cc: [email protected],
"KICTAnet
> ICT Policy Discussions"
>
>> <[email protected]>
>
>>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
>
>>>> Legislation and Regulation for
e-Commerce in
> Kenya
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing
Note #
> 3 - Report -
>
>>>> Public Panel 19
>
>>>> June 2008
>
>>>>
>
>>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will
add
> at least one
>
>>>> percent point growth
>
>>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth
> within five years.
>
>>>> This is contingent
>
>>>> upon the adoption of legislation that
> supports electronic
>
>>>> transactions. *Kenya,
>
>>>> as an emerging economy and regional
leader,
> lags behind in
>
>>>> having a legal
>
>>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The
> current situation is
>
>>>> an anachronism
>
>>>> hampering national development, placing
> provincial centres
>
>>>> at a
>
>>>> disadvantage, and harming global
> competitiveness. Both
>
>>>> external and internal
>
>>>> trade require the new framework.The
Kenyan
> private sector
>
>>>> strongly supports
>
>>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as
> legislation of the
>
>>>> Information and
>
>>>> Communication Technology sector that
> guarantees an open
>
>>>> market and promotes
>
>>>> innovation.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation
> supporting
>
>>>> electronic transactions
>
>>>> represents the single most powerful
> innovation opportunity
>
>>>> in the legal
>
>>>> framework of the ICT sector.
Legislation is
> needed to:
>
>>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by
> recognizing an
>
>>>> electronic signature
>
>>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r
<KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/marcelcwerner%40gmail.c... -- MARCEL please send any business mail to: [email protected] _________________________________________________________________ Play and win great prizes with Live Search and Kung Fu Panda http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719966/direct/01/
Marcel: We expect better than you calling legitimate discussion "nonsense". Obviously there is someting rotten in "Bombay" (and I am misquoting) as the saying goes. Right now every Kenyan should really be concerned about these so called represnetatives of the private sector who are scared of real questions. We should be very afraid of another Goldenberg scandal and we know the people who were involved in that. Open up gentlemen. Joe On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 5:52 PM, wambui jane <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Marcel
It is not KICTANET that is being called to respond to their governance structures and certain issues of transparency ...it is KIF. You claim to be the voice if ICT private sector and many have never heard of you. You have been requested by interested Kenyan's not KICTAnet to respond to issues that touch on membership and conflict of interest instead you get defensive. Very Kenyan politician kind of reaction...but then again you are not Kenyan and that is another issue altogether is it not.
regards wambui
------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:44:45 +0300 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya CC: [email protected] To: [email protected]
Hello Kictanet membership,
The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies.
KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week).
Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable.
The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance ā I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members".
We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house.
We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense.
Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :)
2008/7/11 kevit desai <[email protected]>:
Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false.
It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation.
For now I close my participation.
Kevit Desai
-----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit;
KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR?
Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?.
regards,
On 7/11/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004,
2005,
2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= [email protected]]
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo <[email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: [email protected] [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo <kictanet-bounces%2Bskisonzo>= [email protected]] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET<http://innovation-africa.net/> Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET <http://ultra103.uk2.net/> Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET <http://ultra104.uk2.net/> Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: kevit desai <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce > in Kenya > To: [email protected] > Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> > Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM > Hi Alex, > > I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can. > > Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and > market segment > associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: > KEPSA decisions > are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from > the private > sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for > membership in KEPSA, neither > are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows > the same approach > for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and > government agencies are > member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR > BASIS with all > those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no > obligation to > offer service to non members. > > Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam > Mwaura of KEPSA or > Marcel Werner of KIF. > > > Kevit > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 > To: kevit desai > Cc: kictanet-lists > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > Kevit, > > > How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions > independence? > The political issue here may be monopolization to the > extent of clouding out > other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory > steps in. > > We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' > attitude towards > cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments > with different > degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no > competition at all up > to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute > generously to a public > project in the absence of competition, whereas they > contribute very little > in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A > diminishing attitude > towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of > competition increases. > Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the > maximum degree of > competition may be not efficient. > >
< http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
> 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb> > > react. > > > --- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: kevit desai > <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya >> To: [email protected] >> Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT > Policy Discussions'" > <[email protected]> >> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM >> Hi Waudo, >> >> As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other >> association to full >> membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful >> partnership. >> >> >> >> >> >> Kevit Desai >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 >> To: Kevit Desai >> Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions' >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in Kenya >> >> >> >> Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when > handling >> KEPSA and KIF at >> the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to > promote >> KIF at the >> expense of other associations. The explanation is very >> simple: KEPSA was >> formed as a focal point, a bringing together > characterised >> by INCLUSIVITY. >> KIF on the other hand is an independent association > and the >> nature of such >> an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership >> mechanism). I would like >> to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA > ICT >> Board, not just >> KIF. Please give us space. >> >> Waudo >> >> >> >> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit > Desai" >> <[email protected]> said: >> >> Hi Alex, >> >> >> >> KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body > with >> its own governance >> structure. Elected as a director in private capacity > and as >> KIF vice >> chairman. >> >> >> >> KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry >> association, member >> of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. >> >> >> >> Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) >> private company, >> director, member of KIF. >> >> >> >> Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd >> >> Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section >> >> Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition >> >> Governor - KEPSA >> >> Director - KEPSA >> >> Director - Innovation Africa >> >> Director- Kenya ICT Board >> >> Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation >> >> BOA - AIESEC >> >> Member - National Strategy for University Education >> >> Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP > Kenya >> >> General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 >> >> >> >> 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, >> >> Raphta Rd >> >> , Westlands -Nairobi >> >> P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. >> >> Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 >> 2049750 >> >> Mobile: +254 722 517067 >> >> >> >> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com >> >> http://www.ieee.org >> >> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke >> >> http://www.innovation-africa.net >> >> http://www.kepsa.or.ke >> >> http://www.powerup.co.ke >> >> http://www.aiesec.org >> >> http://www.africon2007.co.za >> >> http://www.kif.or.ke >> >> htpp://www.ict.go.ke >> >> http://www.globalcompact.org >> >> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM >> To: kevit desai >> Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions' >> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in Kenya >> >> >> >> Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET > I can >> answer it on >> >> the same forum. I think the picture being painted > about a >> rosy situation >> >> including "collaboration" is simply not > true. The >> reason to be frank is >> >> that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other >> association to >> >> have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. > Could >> you as a >> >> KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations >> including the >> >> major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute > in >> KEPSA? It can be >> >> sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to > promote >> KIF and crack >> >> down on those you feel are in the way. >> >> Waudo >> >> >> >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit > desai" >> >> <[email protected]> said: >> >>> Hi Walu, >> >>> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. > I >> would like to confirm >> >>> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We > would >> like to do a lot >> >>> more >> >>> and welcome more support. >> >>> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our > last >> ministerial stakeholder >> >>> forum. >> >>> Collaboration is the way forward. >> >>> >> >>> Kevit Desai >> >>> KEPSA Director >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: >> > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> >>> >> >
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= [email protected]
> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of waudo siganga >> >>> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 >> >>> To: [email protected] >> >>> Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions >> >>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for >> e-Commerce in >> >>> Kenya >> >>> >> >>> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on > GPRS >> somewhere in the >> >>> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the > IT >> (or ICT) Profession >> >>> on this list a few months ago. But the rather >> unenthusiastic response I >> >>> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not > the >> correct list since >> >>> many of the subscribers appear just interested in > ICT >> Policy rather than >> >>> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two > weeks >> there will be another >> >>> list for professionals and you will be informed > (you >> have the >> >>> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing > for a >> registration board >> >>> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and >> Procurement >> >>> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on >> unheralded. All we need >> >>> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. >> >>> Waudo >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), > "John >> Walubengo" >> >>> <[email protected]> said: >> >>>> Marcel, >> >>>> >> >>>> It looks like quite some work has been > ongoing in >> this >> >>>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was >> restricted within KIF only? >> I >> >>>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, > Waudo r >> u there?) or >> >>>> Information Security Audit & Control >> (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to >> >>>> mention some of the big IT Associations in > Kenya >> were involved. I beg to >> >>>> be enlightened. >> >>>> >> >>>> This brings in an old question - who really >> represents the IT Profession >> >>>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying > that >> IT is the only >> >>>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with > the >> same authority as LSK >> >>>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of >> Engineers of Kenya), Medical >> >>>> Practictioners Board amongst others to > regulate >> the IT Profession. >> >>>> >> >>>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the > bill >> either (and has a >> >>>> different objective anyway). But time has > come >> to really start thinking >> >>>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we >> struggle to regulate the >> >>>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead > on >> this, but they have been >> >>>> awfully quite except when they award prizes > at >> the end of the year >> (Waudo >> >>>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had > to >> say it!). >> >>>> >> >>>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective > particularly >> in the Manufacturing >> >>>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been > as >> effective - particularly >> >>>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the > IT >> industry has been 'cloudy' >> >>>> for lack of a better word...Can for example > CSK >> or ISACA be part of >> >>>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again > need to >> be enlightened. >> >>>> >> >>>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just > thinking >> loudly and saying that as >> >>>> we think of regulating electronic > transactions, >> we also need to >> >>>> simultaneously start regulating the IT >> profession..but maybe I am wrong. >> >>>> Particularly because regulation can and > often >> leads to suppression... >> >>>> >> >>>> walu. >> >>>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> From: Marcel Werner >> <[email protected]> >> >>>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and >> Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya >> >>>>> To: [email protected] >> >>>>> Cc: [email protected], > "KICTAnet >> ICT Policy Discussions" >> >>> <[email protected]> >> >>>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM >> >>>>> Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in >> Kenya >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing > Note # >> 3 - Report - >> >>>>> Public Panel 19 >> >>>>> June 2008 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will > add >> at least one >> >>>>> percent point growth >> >>>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth >> within five years. >> >>>>> This is contingent >> >>>>> upon the adoption of legislation that >> supports electronic >> >>>>> transactions. *Kenya, >> >>>>> as an emerging economy and regional > leader, >> lags behind in >> >>>>> having a legal >> >>>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The >> current situation is >> >>>>> an anachronism >> >>>>> hampering national development, placing >> provincial centres >> >>>>> at a >> >>>>> disadvantage, and harming global >> competitiveness. Both >> >>>>> external and internal >> >>>>> trade require the new framework.The > Kenyan >> private sector >> >>>>> strongly supports >> >>>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as >> legislation of the >> >>>>> Information and >> >>>>> Communication Technology sector that >> guarantees an open >> >>>>> market and promotes >> >>>>> innovation. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation >> supporting >> >>>>> electronic transactions >> >>>>> represents the single most powerful >> innovation opportunity >> >>>>> in the legal >> >>>>> framework of the ICT sector. > Legislation is >> needed to: >> >>>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by >> recognizing an >> >>>>> electronic signature >> >>>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected]
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Joseph, KIF through its activities has been part of the solution towards: Poverty eradication Developing prospects for youth Developing Rural areas Creating equitable platforms for Women in ICT's Creating enabling environments for small holders. SME etc Our Chairman is a good man, and you do not have to be concerned about him. If you know the people involved in Goldenberg, as a Kenyan you should be doing something about it. Do we need to compare good organizations like KIF to terrible scandals like Goldenberg? Very concerned Kenyan. Kevit Desai _____ From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 12 July 2008 01:13 To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Marcel: We expect better than you calling legitimate discussion "nonsense". Obviously there is someting rotten in "Bombay" (and I am misquoting) as the saying goes. Right now every Kenyan should really be concerned about these so called represnetatives of the private sector who are scared of real questions. We should be very afraid of another Goldenberg scandal and we know the people who were involved in that. Open up gentlemen. Joe On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 5:52 PM, wambui jane <[email protected]> wrote: Dear Marcel It is not KICTANET that is being called to respond to their governance structures and certain issues of transparency ...it is KIF. You claim to be the voice if ICT private sector and many have never heard of you. You have been requested by interested Kenyan's not KICTAnet to respond to issues that touch on membership and conflict of interest instead you get defensive. Very Kenyan politician kind of reaction...but then again you are not Kenyan and that is another issue altogether is it not. regards wambui _____ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:44:45 +0300 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya CC: [email protected] To: [email protected] Hello Kictanet membership, The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies. KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week). Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable. The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance - I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members". We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house. We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense. Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :) 2008/7/11 kevit desai <[email protected]>: Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false. It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation. For now I close my participation. Kevit Desai -----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Kevit; KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR? Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?. regards, On 7/11/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004,
2005,
2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/>
http://www.ieee.org <http://www.ieee.org/>
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/>
http://www.innovation-africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/>
http://www.kepsa.or.ke <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/>
http://www.powerup.co.ke <http://www.powerup.co.ke/>
http://www.aiesec.org <http://www.aiesec.org/>
http://www.africon2007.co.za <http://www.africon2007.co.za/>
http://www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/>
www.ict.go.ke <http://www.ict.go.ke/>
http://www.globalcompact.org <http://www.globalcompact.org/>
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit> =centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> ]
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo <[email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com <http://gmail.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bskisonzo> =gmail.com <http://gmail.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> ] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/>
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET <http://innovation-africa.net/> Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com <http://whois.tucows.com/> Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/> Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET <http://ultra103.uk2.net/> Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET <http://ultra104.uk2.net/> Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/> ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: kevit desai <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> > Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM > Hi Waudo, > > As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > association to full > membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful > partnership. > > > > > > Kevit Desai > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 > To: Kevit Desai > Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling > KEPSA and KIF at > the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote > KIF at the > expense of other associations. The explanation is very > simple: KEPSA was > formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised > by INCLUSIVITY. > KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the > nature of such > an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership > mechanism). I would like > to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT > Board, not just > KIF. Please give us space. > > Waudo > > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" > <[email protected]> said: > > Hi Alex, > > > > KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with > its own governance > structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as > KIF vice > chairman. > > > > KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry > association, member > of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. > > > > Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> ) > private company, > director, member of KIF. > > > > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd > > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section > > Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition > > Governor - KEPSA > > Director - KEPSA > > Director - Innovation Africa > > Director- Kenya ICT Board > > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation > > BOA - AIESEC > > Member - National Strategy for University Education > > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya > > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 > > > > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, > > Raphta Rd > > , Westlands -Nairobi > > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. > > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 > 2049750 > > Mobile: +254 722 517067 > > > > http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> > > http://www.ieee.org <http://www.ieee.org/> > > http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> > > http://www.innovation-africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> > > http://www.kepsa.or.ke <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> > > http://www.powerup.co.ke <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> > > http://www.aiesec.org <http://www.aiesec.org/> > > http://www.africon2007.co.za <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> > > http://www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/> > > htpp://www.ict.go.ke <http://www.ict.go.ke/> > > http://www.globalcompact.org <http://www.globalcompact.org/> > > http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM > To: kevit desai > Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can > answer it on > > the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a > rosy situation > > including "collaboration" is simply not true. The > reason to be frank is > > that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other > association to > > have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could > you as a > > KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations > including the > > major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in > KEPSA? It can be > > sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote > KIF and crack > > down on those you feel are in the way. > > Waudo > > > > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai" > > <[email protected]> said: > >> Hi Walu, > >> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I > would like to confirm > >> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would > like to do a lot > >> more > >> and welcome more support. > >> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last > ministerial stakeholder > >> forum. > >> Collaboration is the way forward. > >> > >> Kevit Desai > >> KEPSA Director > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: >
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
> >> >
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit> =centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
] > >> On Behalf Of waudo siganga > >> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 > >> To: [email protected] > >> Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions > >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in > >> Kenya > >> > >> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS > somewhere in the > >> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT > (or ICT) Profession > >> on this list a few months ago. But the rather > unenthusiastic response I > >> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not the > correct list since > >> many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT > Policy rather than > >> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks > there will be another > >> list for professionals and you will be informed (you > have the > >> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a > registration board > >> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and > Procurement > >> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on > unheralded. All we need > >> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. > >> Waudo > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John > Walubengo" > >> <[email protected]> said: > >>> Marcel, > >>> > >>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in > this > >>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was > restricted within KIF only? > I > >>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r > u there?) or > >>> Information Security Audit & Control > (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to > >>> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya > were involved. I beg to > >>> be enlightened. > >>> > >>> This brings in an old question - who really > represents the IT Profession > >>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying that > IT is the only > >>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with the > same authority as LSK > >>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of > Engineers of Kenya), Medical > >>> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate > the IT Profession. > >>> > >>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill > either (and has a > >>> different objective anyway). But time has come > to really start thinking > >>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we > struggle to regulate the > >>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on > this, but they have been > >>> awfully quite except when they award prizes at > the end of the year > (Waudo > >>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to > say it!). > >>> > >>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective particularly > in the Manufacturing > >>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as > effective - particularly > >>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT > industry has been 'cloudy' > >>> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK > or ISACA be part of > >>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to > be enlightened. > >>> > >>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just thinking > loudly and saying that as > >>> we think of regulating electronic transactions, > we also need to > >>> simultaneously start regulating the IT > profession..but maybe I am wrong. > >>> Particularly because regulation can and often > leads to suppression... > >>> > >>> walu. > >>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner > <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Marcel Werner > <[email protected]> > >>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > >>>> To: [email protected] > >>>> Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet > ICT Policy Discussions" > >> <[email protected]> > >>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM > >>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in > Kenya > >>>> > >>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # > 3 - Report - > >>>> Public Panel 19 > >>>> June 2008 > >>>> > >>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add > at least one > >>>> percent point growth > >>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth > within five years. > >>>> This is contingent > >>>> upon the adoption of legislation that > supports electronic > >>>> transactions. *Kenya, > >>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, > lags behind in > >>>> having a legal > >>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The > current situation is > >>>> an anachronism > >>>> hampering national development, placing > provincial centres > >>>> at a > >>>> disadvantage, and harming global > competitiveness. Both > >>>> external and internal > >>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan > private sector > >>>> strongly supports > >>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as > legislation of the > >>>> Information and > >>>> Communication Technology sector that > guarantees an open > >>>> market and promotes > >>>> innovation. > >>>> > >>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation > supporting > >>>> electronic transactions > >>>> represents the single most powerful > innovation opportunity > >>>> in the legal > >>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is > needed to: > >>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by > recognizing an > >>>> electronic signature > >>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/marcelcwerner%40gmail.c om <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/[email protected] m> -- MARCEL please send any business mail to: [email protected] _____ Get Messenger on your Mobile! Get <http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719964/direct/01/> it now! _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmail.com -- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com
Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF, I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue. As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows. I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya. I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum. As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs. I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month. I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya, and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions. Sincerely Brian Munyao Longwe Chairman, KICTANET Sent from my iPhone On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, "Marcel Werner" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello Kictanet membership,
The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies.
KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week).
Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable.
The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/ ) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance ā I have to conclude to day that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet) . We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members".
We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house.
We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense.
Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :)
2008/7/11 kevit desai <[email protected]>: Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false.
It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation.
For now I close my participation.
Kevit Desai
-----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit;
KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR?
Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?.
regards,
On 7/11/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral
discussions
private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004, 2005, 2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo <[email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]
wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella
actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]
wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being
ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that
KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public
participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke ] body was the KEPSA the policy procurement
involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: kevit desai <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e- Commerce > in Kenya > To: [email protected] > Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> > Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM > Hi Alex, > > I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can. > > Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and > market segment > associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: > KEPSA decisions > are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from > the private > sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for > membership in KEPSA, neither > are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows > the same approach > for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and > government agencies are > member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR > BASIS with all > those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no > obligation to > offer service to non members. > > Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam > Mwaura of KEPSA or > Marcel Werner of KIF. > > > Kevit > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 > To: kevit desai > Cc: kictanet-lists > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > Kevit, > > > How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions > independence? > The political issue here may be monopolization to the > extent of clouding out > other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory > steps in. > > We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' > attitude towards > cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments > with different > degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no > competition at all up > to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute > generously to a public > project in the absence of competition, whereas they > contribute very little > in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A > diminishing attitude > towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of > competition increases. > Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the > maximum degree of > competition may be not efficient. > >
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
> 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb> > > react. > > > --- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: kevit desai > <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya >> To: [email protected] >> Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT > Policy Discussions'" > <[email protected]> >> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM >> Hi Waudo, >> >> As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other >> association to full >> membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful >> partnership. >> >> >> >> >> >> Kevit Desai >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 >> To: Kevit Desai >> Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions' >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in Kenya >> >> >> >> Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when > handling >> KEPSA and KIF at >> the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to > promote >> KIF at the >> expense of other associations. The explanation is very >> simple: KEPSA was >> formed as a focal point, a bringing together > characterised >> by INCLUSIVITY. >> KIF on the other hand is an independent association > and the >> nature of such >> an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership >> mechanism). I would like >> to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA > ICT >> Board, not just >> KIF. Please give us space. >> >> Waudo >> >> >> >> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit > Desai" >> <[email protected]> said: >> >> Hi Alex, >> >> >> >> KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body > with >> its own governance >> structure. Elected as a director in private capacity > and as >> KIF vice >> chairman. >> >> >> >> KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry >> association, member >> of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. >> >> >> >> Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) >> private company, >> director, member of KIF. >> >> >> >> Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd >> >> Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section >> >> Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition >> >> Governor - KEPSA >> >> Director - KEPSA >> >> Director - Innovation Africa >> >> Director- Kenya ICT Board >> >> Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation >> >> BOA - AIESEC >> >> Member - National Strategy for University Education >> >> Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP > Kenya >> >> General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 >> >> >> >> 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, >> >> Raphta Rd >> >> , Westlands -Nairobi >> >> P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. >> >> Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 >> 2049750 >> >> Mobile: +254 722 517067 >> >> >> >> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com >> >> http://www.ieee.org >> >> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke >> >> http://www.innovation-africa.net >> >> http://www.kepsa.or.ke >> >> http://www.powerup.co.ke >> >> http://www.aiesec.org >> >> http://www.africon2007.co.za >> >> http://www.kif.or.ke >> >> htpp://www.ict.go.ke >> >> http://www.globalcompact.org >> >> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM >> To: kevit desai >> Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions' >> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in Kenya >> >> >> >> Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET > I can >> answer it on >> >> the same forum. I think the picture being painted > about a >> rosy situation >> >> including "collaboration" is simply not > true. The >> reason to be frank is >> >> that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other >> association to >> >> have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. > Could >> you as a >> >> KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations >> including the >> >> major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute > in >> KEPSA? It can be >> >> sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to > promote >> KIF and crack >> >> down on those you feel are in the way. >> >> Waudo >> >> >> >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit > desai" >> >> <[email protected]> said: >> >>> Hi Walu, >> >>> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. > I >> would like to confirm >> >>> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We > would >> like to do a lot >> >>> more >> >>> and welcome more support. >> >>> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our > last >> ministerial stakeholder >> >>> forum. >> >>> Collaboration is the way forward. >> >>> >> >>> Kevit Desai >> >>> KEPSA Director >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: >> > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> >>> >> >
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of waudo siganga >> >>> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 >> >>> To: [email protected] >> >>> Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions >> >>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for >> e-Commerce in >> >>> Kenya >> >>> >> >>> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on > GPRS >> somewhere in the >> >>> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the > IT >> (or ICT) Profession >> >>> on this list a few months ago. But the rather >> unenthusiastic response I >> >>> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not > the >> correct list since >> >>> many of the subscribers appear just interested in > ICT >> Policy rather than >> >>> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two > weeks >> there will be another >> >>> list for professionals and you will be informed > (you >> have the >> >>> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing > for a >> registration board >> >>> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and >> Procurement >> >>> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on >> unheralded. All we need >> >>> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. >> >>> Waudo >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), > "John >> Walubengo" >> >>> <[email protected]> said: >> >>>> Marcel, >> >>>> >> >>>> It looks like quite some work has been > ongoing in >> this >> >>>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was >> restricted within KIF only? >> I >> >>>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, > Waudo r >> u there?) or >> >>>> Information Security Audit & Control >> (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to >> >>>> mention some of the big IT Associations in > Kenya >> were involved. I beg to >> >>>> be enlightened. >> >>>> >> >>>> This brings in an old question - who really >> represents the IT Profession >> >>>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying > that >> IT is the only >> >>>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with > the >> same authority as LSK >> >>>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of >> Engineers of Kenya), Medical >> >>>> Practictioners Board amongst others to > regulate >> the IT Profession. >> >>>> >> >>>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the > bill >> either (and has a >> >>>> different objective anyway). But time has > come >> to really start thinking >> >>>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we >> struggle to regulate the >> >>>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead > on >> this, but they have been >> >>>> awfully quite except when they award prizes > at >> the end of the year >> (Waudo >> >>>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had > to >> say it!). >> >>>> >> >>>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective > particularly >> in the Manufacturing >> >>>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been > as >> effective - particularly >> >>>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the > IT >> industry has been 'cloudy' >> >>>> for lack of a better word...Can for example > CSK >> or ISACA be part of >> >>>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again > need to >> be enlightened. >> >>>> >> >>>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just > thinking >> loudly and saying that as >> >>>> we think of regulating electronic > transactions, >> we also need to >> >>>> simultaneously start regulating the IT >> profession..but maybe I am wrong. >> >>>> Particularly because regulation can and > often >> leads to suppression... >> >>>> >> >>>> walu. >> >>>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> From: Marcel Werner >> <[email protected]> >> >>>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and >> Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya >> >>>>> To: [email protected] >> >>>>> Cc: [email protected], > "KICTAnet >> ICT Policy Discussions" >> >>> <[email protected]> >> >>>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM >> >>>>> Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in >> Kenya >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing > Note # >> 3 - Report - >> >>>>> Public Panel 19 >> >>>>> June 2008 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will > add >> at least one >> >>>>> percent point growth >> >>>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth >> within five years. >> >>>>> This is contingent >> >>>>> upon the adoption of legislation that >> supports electronic >> >>>>> transactions. *Kenya, >> >>>>> as an emerging economy and regional > leader, >> lags behind in >> >>>>> having a legal >> >>>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The >> current situation is >> >>>>> an anachronism >> >>>>> hampering national development, placing >> provincial centres >> >>>>> at a >> >>>>> disadvantage, and harming global >> competitiveness. Both >> >>>>> external and internal >> >>>>> trade require the new framework.The > Kenyan >> private sector >> >>>>> strongly supports >> >>>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as >> legislation of the >> >>>>> Information and >> >>>>> Communication Technology sector that >> guarantees an open >> >>>>> market and promotes >> >>>>> innovation. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation >> supporting >> >>>>> electronic transactions >> >>>>> represents the single most powerful >> innovation opportunity >> >>>>> in the legal >> >>>>> framework of the ICT sector. > Legislation is >> needed to: >> >>>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by >> recognizing an >> >>>>> electronic signature >> >>>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected]
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Hey all, I have been out in some bush last 2days and just getting online now... Must admit this thread got personal along the way. Lets try and focus on the bigger picture which i thought was already alluded to a while back by Gilda, Kisonzo amongst others. The big picture seemed to be that the IT fraternity needs to re-organise for better presentation/engagement with Government. Whether that is through KEPSA, KIF, CSK or any other body is a question beyond an online dialogue. Maybe IDRC, DFID, Danida, KICTAnet or any other bodies could convene a stakeholder session to kick-start/review this process? Saying that money was misappropriated or that someone is not Kenyan is really not something to discuss on the KICTAnet forum (remember focus on your core business and you excel). So please lets agree to retire this thread and like all other discussions - encourage the concerned parties and stakeholders to take and act on what is deemed valuable and ignore what is not. walu. --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote: > From: Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> > Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > To: [email protected] > Cc: "kictanet-lists" <[email protected]> > Date: Saturday, July 12, 2008, 10:50 AM > Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF, > > I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on > behalf of > KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent > dialogue. > > As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has > welcomed anyone > with questions to have these answered in person while at > the same time > providing as many answers as this media allows. > > I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and > seriously > dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya. I now humbly > beg you to > forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their > misuse of > this forum. > > As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see > this forum > turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that > have > characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs. > > I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from > Alex, by > Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other > member who > persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month. > > I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to > desist from > the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently > witnessed. > We must work *together* for a better Kenya, and this will > not come > through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions. > > Sincerely > > Brian Munyao Longwe > Chairman, KICTANET > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, "Marcel Werner" > <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Hello Kictanet membership, > > > > The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable > organization, duly > > registered and maintaining a proper governance system > with a > > registered, paid-up membership base consisting of > equally reputable > > ICT associations and companies. > > > > KIF has done a number of useful things over the period > of its > > existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this > week). > > > > Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to > discredit our own > > organization KIF and its members with insinuations and > slander. This > > is unacceptable. > > > > The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of > Kictanet (nr 8). We > > do not wish to be associated with an organization that > lends itself > > to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that > can go on with > > impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and > other's > > initiatives that are being implemented in the public > interest (see > > again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with > doubtful > > legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any > membership > > instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged > nor have we > > paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT > Action > > Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report > (posted on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/ > > ) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. > Personally I had > > highlighted this membership problem already a year ago > in the > > interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid > 2007 in the > > evaluation study of its role and performance ā I > have to conclude to > > day that membership management has never been > addressed at Kictanet) > > . We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of > its appointed > > "Members". > > > > We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a > legitimate > > constituency because there is need for a place of > dialogue between > > civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not > playing such a > > role today at all and creates a space for civil > society to alienate > > itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to > clean up its house. > > > > We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in > society, and we > > need to reach out internationally. We don't have > time for any > > nonsense. > > > > Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :) > > > > > > 2008/7/11 kevit desai > <[email protected]>: > > Alex, > > Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established > organization, > > supported by its members who are also reputable and > well established > > organizations. > > I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money > from KIF. > > Please > > verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and > conditions > > since your > > information is false. > > > > It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF > and its > > membership on > > a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have > extended an > > invitation to > > meet so that I can give further explanations. I am > waiting to gauge > > the > > interest in this invitation. > > > > For now I close my participation. > > > > Kevit Desai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gakuru , Alex > [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 > > To: kevit desai > > Cc: kictanet-lists > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in > > Kenya > > > > Kevit; > > > > KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a > certain business > > fund. > > I am curious centurion system hosts them under their > CSR? > > > > Public forum to explain all dealings openly and > transparently?. > > > > regards, > > > > On 7/11/08, kevit desai > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sylvester, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you > would like further > > > information on the following activities: > > > > > > > > > > > > Historical & present- Impact > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular > sectoral > > discussions > > > private sector - Government, with KEPSA) > > > > > > - Power up with ICT nation - wide > awareness campaigns > > (2004, > > 2005, > > > 2006) > > > > > > - E-Government - municipal councils > > > > > > - Open source software community > > > > > > - E-commerce legislation > > > > > > - Engineering student exhibition - 1997 > - 2008 > > > > > > - ICT Bills (2006 - 2008) > > > > > > - Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003) > > > > > > - National ICT Policy formulation (2004 > - 2006) > > > > > > - Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008 > > > > > > - National innovation system > > > > > > - University Education Reforms Task > Force (2006 - current) > > > > > > - PSDS > > > > > > - Africon 2009 > > > > > > - Public panels with Kenya ICT Board > > > > > > > > > > > > Associations: > > > > > > > > > > > > - KEPSA > > > > > > - KIF > > > > > > - IEEE > > > > > > - Kenya software industry association > > > > > > > > > Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This > will allow me to > > gauge > > level > > > of participation so as to plan the venue and also > mobilize the > > relevant > > > leaders. If you are not on board, it would be > great to have you on > > board. > > We > > > need your support > > > > > > > > > > > > Kevit Desai > > > > > > > > > > > > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems > > > > > > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section > > > > > > Chairman - Engineering students exhibition > > > > > > Governor - KEPSA > > > > > > Director - KEPSA > > > > > > Director - Innovation Africa > > > > > > Director- Kenya ICT Board > > > > > > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation > > > > > > BOA - AIESEC > > > > > > Member - National Strategy for University > Education > > > > > > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable > Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya > > > > > > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 > > > > > > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands > -Nairobi > > > > > > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. > > > > > > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: > 020 2049750 > > > > > > Mobile: +254 722 517067 > > > > > > http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com > > > > > > http://www.ieee.org > > > > > > http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke > > > > > > http://www.innovation-africa.net > > > > > > http://www.kepsa.or.ke > > > > > > http://www.powerup.co.ke > > > > > > http://www.aiesec.org > > > > > > http://www.africon2007.co.za > > > > > > http://www.kif.or.ke > > > > > > www.ict.go.ke > > > > > > http://www.globalcompact.org > > > > > > http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > From: > > > > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke > > > > > > [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke > > > ] > > > On Behalf Of Brian Longwe > > > Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Cc: kictanet-lists > > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for e-Commerce > > in > > Kenya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Sylvester, > > > > > > Thank you so very much for highlighting yet > another way in which > > KICTANET > > > is beneficial to the communicat at large. through > KICTANET we all > > learn so > > > many good things that are happening in/around - > and can then make > > our own > > > decisions as to whether to follow up/engage. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester > Kisonzo > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > And where can I read (or get information) about > all these new > > names to me? > > > KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined > this group, I had > > never > > heard > > > of them. So I wonder how all the > 'stakeholders' have all along been > > > involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > SK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > > > [email protected] > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] > > > On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi > > > Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: kictanet-lists > > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for e-Commerce > > in > > Kenya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Waudo: > > > I would like to pose a simple question: > > > > > > Why are these associations needed? > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga > <[email protected] > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the > private sector > > voice. The > > > idea was to bring together EXISTING > associations. Someone got > > early wind > > > that ICT was one of the identified sectors and > decided to > > register a NEW > > > association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The > real umbrella > > body was > > > actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT > Board. Period. Why did > > > someone find a pressing need to form a NEW > association??? > > > > > > Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT > Board is on the > > right > > > track with all associations on board. We have to > struggle to make > > sure > > > it stays that way. I do not understand why you > seem to be > > insisting on > > > someone visiting KIF. What is the value > addition? What can one > > discover > > > there??? Some say there are personal companies > underneath and KIF > > is the > > > front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My > interest is KEPSA > > ICT > > > Board not being equated with KIF. > > > Waudo > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian > Munyao Longwe" > > > <[email protected]> said: > > > > Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF > is KEPSAs "child" > > i.e when > > > > KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF > was established *by* > > KEpsa > > > > to act as the umbrella for ICT private > sector. > > > > > > > > But I stand to be corrected if I'm > getting my facts wrong. But > > if I am > > > > right then it *is* important for any > critics to understand the > > inner > > > > workings by visiting. > > > > > > > > I am urging action instead of just talk. > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > > On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo > siganga" <[email protected] > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Brian - I do not think that the > issue is an interest in the > > > > > internal > > > > > operations of KIF. We are talking > governance in the context > > of KEPSA/ > > > > > KIF > > > > > relationship, something also of > interest to the consumer > > community. > > > > > For > > > > > your information last year all > stakeholders held a meeting in > > KEPSA > > > > > and > > > > > decided to open membership to all > interested Private Sector > > > > > associations. This was after it was > observed that the hitherto > > > > > stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant > that the sector was not > > adequately > > > > > represented. Some people may have felt > unhappy or even > > insecure with > > > > > this development. The problem is that > my friend Kevit, being > > the > > KEPSA > > > > > ICT director uses his position to > constantly market KIF as if > > it is a > > > > > favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I > would like to confirm that > > the > > > > > KEPSA/KIF relationship is > vibrant." - as if implying the other > > > > > associations are dead) He is often > busy promoting "KIF > > Positions" > > > > > instead of "KEPSA Positions" > including using KIF letterheads > > at the > > > > > MSFs. I have misgivings about the > current ICT leadership in > > KEPSA > > > > > but I > > > > > am hopeful things will change. > > > > > > > > > > Waudo > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, > "Brian Munyao Longwe" > > > > > <[email protected]> said: > > > > >> Hi Alex, > > > > >> > > > > >> I would find it hard to imagine > how much more Kevit can > > explain to > > > > >> you > > > > >> about KIF. > > > > >> > > > > >> I would like to suggest that Kevit > extend an invitation to > > you (and > > > > >> anyone else who might be > interested/concerned) to attend the > > next > > KIF > > > > >> meeting as an observer and > see/feel the animal yourself. > > > > >> > > > > >> Brian > > > > >> > > > > >> Sent from my iPhone > > > > >> > > > > >> On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex > Gakuru > > <[email protected]> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> Kevit: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I am afraid you have not > clarified well enough. I shall not > > ask you > > > > >>> further KEPSA questions > although on your previous email you > > told > > > > >>> Waundo "As the director > of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > > > > >>> association to full membership > of KEPSA." Apparently this now > > > > >>> appears to have changed. And I > doubt Waundo complained of > > > > >>> "exclusion" not of > his private self, rather of CSK? I could > > be > > wrong > > > > >>> but he could clarify. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Jun 23, 2008 it was > announced that a "Local Software > > Industry > > > > >>> Association established" > with, among others, "3.1 > > Objective, Market > > > > >>> the local software industry to > venture capitalists." (see > > > > >>> announcement document > attached) Was it registered under > > Societies > > > > >>> Act > > > > >>> ( Read Public interest) or as > Private (non-or-for-profit) > > Company? > > I > > > > >>> found it strange it was formed > 3 days to aour very > > successful and > > > > >>> OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also > under your umbrella? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On the links you sent onlist: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> www.innovation-africa.net > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Domain Name: > INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET > > > > >>> Registrar: TUCOWS INC. > > > > >>> Whois Server: > whois.tucows.com > > > > >>> Referral URL: > http://domainhelp.opensrs.net > > > > >>> Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET > > > > >>> Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET > > > > >>> Status: redemptionPeriod > > > > >>> Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 > > > > >>> Creation Date: 14-may-2007 > > > > >>> Expiration Date: 14-may-2008 > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I tried > www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to > >> > > > www.kif.or.ke > > > > >>> ( but today it now says > "under construction") I gather > > Centurion > > > > >>> Systems offices accommodates > KIF, is that correct? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> What I am trying is to > understand is who speaks in the > > background > > > > >>> when when "KIF" > issues "stakeholders" statements on an > > issue,how > > > > >>> representative or public > service-oriented, good governance, > > in > > > > >>> trying to understand new and > old associations' motives. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> With above information, it > would clear doubts of public > > policy > > > > >>> participation illegitimacy or > inappropriate public > > procurement > > > > >>> involvement(s). For the sake > of our growing transparent ICTs > > > > >>> abundantly rewarding > enterprising citizens. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Alex > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> --- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit > desai > > > <[email protected]> > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> From: kevit desai > <[email protected]> > > > > >>>> Subject: RE: [kictanet] > Legislation and Regulation for e- > > Commerce > > > > >>>> in Kenya > > > > >>>> To: [email protected] > > > > >>>> Cc: > "'kictanet-lists'" > > > <[email protected]> > > > > >>>> Date: Wednesday, July 9, > 2008, 2:50 AM > > > > >>>> Hi Alex, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> I'm pleased to clarify > as much as I can. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Kepsa has an open > membership of PRIVATE sector industry and > > > > >>>> market segment > > > > >>>> associations in almost all > economic sectors. Independence: > > > > >>>> KEPSA decisions > > > > >>>> are dependent on members > wishes, and members are drawn from > > > > >>>> the private > > > > >>>> sector. In fact, NGO's > are not approached for > > > > >>>> membership in KEPSA, > neither > > > > >>>> are government bodies > including parastatals. KIF follows > > > > >>>> the same approach > > > > >>>> for membership and > decision-making. No NGO's and > > > > >>>> government agencies are > > > > >>>> member ofn KIF. However, > KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR > > > > >>>> BASIS with all > > > > >>>> those stakeholders. Having > said that, KEPSA and KIF have no > > > > >>>> obligation to > > > > >>>> offer service to non > members. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Hopefully this helps to > clarify. Do get in touch with Sam > > > > >>>> Mwaura of KEPSA or > > > > >>>> Marcel Werner of KIF. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Kevit > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> -----Original Message----- > > > > >>>> From: Alex Gakuru > [mailto:[email protected]] > > > > >>>> Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 > > > > >>>> To: kevit desai > > > > >>>> Cc: kictanet-lists > > > > >>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] > Legislation and Regulation for > > > > >>>> e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Kevit, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> How does KEPSA and KIF > governance relate ensuring decisions > > > > >>>> independence? > > > > >>>> The political issue here > may be monopolization to the > > > > >>>> extent of clouding out > > > > >>>> other actors thereby > generating conflict. The Motive Theory > > > > >>>> steps in. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> We investigate the effects > of competition on subjects' > > > > >>>> attitude towards > > > > >>>> cooperation. Three groups > face three economic environments > > > > >>>> with different > > > > >>>> degrees of competition, > from a benchmark case with no > > > > >>>> competition at all up > > > > >>>> to a perfect competition > case. Subjects contribute > > > > >>>> generously to a public > > > > >>>> project in the absence of > competition, whereas they > > > > >>>> contribute very little > > > > >>>> in the presence of a > maximum degree of competition. A > > > > >>>> diminishing attitude > > > > >>>> towards cooperation > clearly emerges as the degree of > > > > >>>> competition increases. > > > > >>>> Therefore, if cooperation > does enhance well-being, the > > > > >>>> maximum degree of > > > > >>>> competition may be not > efficient. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > > > <http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba > > > > >>>> 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> react. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> --- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit > desai > > > > >>>> > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>> From: kevit desai > > > > >>>> > <[email protected]> > > > > >>>>> Subject: Re: > [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > > > > >>>> e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > >>>>> To: > [email protected] > > > > >>>>> Cc: > [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT > > > > >>>> Policy > Discussions'" > > > > >>>> > <[email protected]> > > > > >>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 8, > 2008, 1:14 PM > > > > >>>>> Hi Waudo, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> As the director of > KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > > > > >>>>> association to full > > > > >>>>> membership of KEPSA. > We look forward to a meaningful > > > > >>>>> partnership. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Kevit Desai > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> _____ > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> From: waudo siganga > > > [mailto:[email protected]] > > > > >>>>> Sent: 08 July 2008 > 13:55 > > > > >>>>> To: Kevit Desai > > > > >>>>> Cc: > [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > > > > >>>>> Discussions' > > > > >>>>> Subject: Re: > [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > > > > >>>>> e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Hello Kevit - I think > one needs to be careful when > > > > >>>> handling > > > > >>>>> KEPSA and KIF at > > > > >>>>> the same time. Do not > use your foothold in KEPSA to > > > > >>>> promote > > > > >>>>> KIF at the > > > > >>>>> expense of other > associations. The explanation is very > > > > >>>>> simple: KEPSA was > > > > >>>>> formed as a focal > point, a bringing together > > > > >>>> characterised > > > > >>>>> by INCLUSIVITY. > > > > >>>>> KIF on the other hand > is an independent association > > > > >>>> and the > > > > >>>>> nature of such > > > > >>>>> an association is > EXCLUSIVITY (through membership > > > > >>>>> mechanism). I would > like > > > > >>>>> to see the promotion > of more associations on the KEPSA > > > > >>>> ICT > > > > >>>>> Board, not just > > > > >>>>> KIF. Please give us > space. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Waudo > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 > 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit > > > > >>>> Desai" > > > > >>>>> > <[email protected]> said: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Hi Alex, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> KEPSA > ([email protected]): private sector policy body > > > > >>>> with > > > > >>>>> its own governance > > > > >>>>> structure. Elected as > a director in private capacity > > > > >>>> and as > > > > >>>>> KIF vice > > > > >>>>> chairman. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> KIF > ([email protected]): membership-based industry > > > > >>>>> association, member > > > > >>>>> of KEPSA's ICT > section. Elected as vice-chairman. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Centurion Systems Ltd: > (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) > > > > >>>>> private company, > > > > >>>>> director, member of > KIF. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Director of > Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Chairperson IEEE - > Kenya Section > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Chairperson - > Engineering Students Exhibition > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Governor - KEPSA > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Director - KEPSA > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Director - Innovation > Africa > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Director- Kenya ICT > Board > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Vice Chairman - Kenya > ICT Federation > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> BOA - AIESEC > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Member - National > Strategy for University Education > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Co-ordinator - Growing > Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP > > > > >>>> Kenya > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> General Co-Chair - > Africon 2009 > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> 2nd Fl, New Rehema > Hse, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Raphta Rd > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> , Westlands -Nairobi > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 > Nrb. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 > Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 > > > > >>>>> 2049750 > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Mobile: +254 722 > 517067 > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> http://www.ieee.org > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > http://www.innovation-africa.net > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> http://www.kepsa.or.ke > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > http://www.powerup.co.ke > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> http://www.aiesec.org > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > http://www.africon2007.co.za > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> http://www.kif.or.ke > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> htpp://www.ict.go.ke > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > http://www.globalcompact.org > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> -----Original > Message----- > > > > >>>>> From: waudo siganga > > > [mailto:[email protected]] > > > > >>>>> Sent: Monday, July 07, > 2008 9:40 PM > > > > >>>>> To: kevit desai > > > > >>>>> Cc: > [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > > > > >>>>> Discussions' > > > > >>>>> Subject: RE: > [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > > > > >>>>> e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Hello Kevit - Since > you sent this message to KICTANET > > > > >>>> I can > > > > >>>>> answer it on > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> the same forum. I > think the picture being painted > > > > >>>> about a > > > > >>>>> rosy situation > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> including > "collaboration" is simply not > > > > >>>> true. The > > > > >>>>> reason to be frank is > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> that there a few in > your KIF who do not want any other > > > > >>>>> association to > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> have a voice in KEPSA > or to interact with Government. > > > > >>>> Could > > > > >>>>> you as a > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> KEPSA director ensure > that all interested associations > > > > >>>>> including the > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> major ones not in KIF > are allowed room to contribute > > > > >>>> in > > > > >>>>> KEPSA? It can be > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> sad if you mis-use > your position in KEPSA only to > > > > >>>> promote > > > > >>>>> KIF and crack > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> down on those you feel > are in the way. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Waudo > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 > 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit > > > > >>>> desai" > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > <[email protected]> said: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Hi Walu, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Associations are > welcome to be members of KEPSA. > > > > >>>> I > > > > >>>>> would like to confirm > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> that the KEPSA/KIF > relationship is vibrant. We > > > > >>>> would > > > > >>>>> like to do a lot > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> more > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> and welcome more > support. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> We appreciate > Waudo's contributions at our > > > > >>>> last > > > > >>>>> ministerial > stakeholder > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> forum. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Collaboration is > the way forward. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Kevit Desai > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> KEPSA Director > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> -----Original > Message----- > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> From: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > > > [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke > > > > >>>> ] > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> On Behalf Of waudo > siganga > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Sent: 07 July 2008 > 19:02 > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> To: > [email protected] > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Cc: > [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy > > > > >>>>> Discussions > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: > [kictanet] Legislation and > > > > >>>> Regulation for > > > > >>>>> e-Commerce in > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Kenya > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Hi Walu - I am > catching you loud and clear on > > > > >>>> GPRS > > > > >>>>> somewhere in the > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> bush. I did bring > out the issue of regulating the > > > > >>>> IT > > > > >>>>> (or ICT) Profession > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> on this list a few > months ago. But the rather > > > > >>>>> unenthusiastic > response I > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> got gave me the > sense that possibly this was not > > > > >>>> the > > > > >>>>> correct list since > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> many of the > subscribers appear just interested in > > > > >>>> ICT > > > > >>>>> Policy rather than > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> being actual IT > Experts. Within the next two > > > > >>>> weeks > > > > >>>>> there will be another > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> list for > professionals and you will be informed > > > > >>>> (you > > > > >>>>> have the > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> qualifications, > don't you??). We are pushing > > > > >>>> for a > > > > >>>>> registration board > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> like thise done > last yeaer for nutritionists and > > > > >>>>> Procurement > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Practitioners. > There is a lot of work going on > > > > >>>>> unheralded. All we > need > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> is a champion or > chanpions in the right place. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Waudo > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 > 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), > > > > >>>> "John > > > > >>>>> Walubengo" > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > <[email protected]> said: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Marcel, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> It looks like > quite some work has been > > > > >>>> ongoing in > > > > >>>>> this > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > area...unfortunately it seems as if it was > > > > >>>>> restricted within KIF > only? > > > > >>>>> I > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> wonder if > Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, > > > > >>>> Waudo r > > > > >>>>> u there?) or > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Information > Security Audit & Control > > > > >>>>> (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) > just to > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> mention some > of the big IT Associations in > > > > >>>> Kenya > > > > >>>>> were involved. I beg > to > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> be > enlightened. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> This brings in > an old question - who really > > > > >>>>> represents the IT > Profession > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> in Kenya? > Shem has been on record as saying > > > > >>>> that > > > > >>>>> IT is the only > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> discipline > where we seem to lack bodies with > > > > >>>> the > > > > >>>>> same authority as LSK > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> (Law Society > of Kenya), IEK (Institute of > > > > >>>>> Engineers of Kenya), > Medical > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Practictioners > Board amongst others to > > > > >>>> regulate > > > > >>>>> the IT Profession. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> And by the > way, KICTAnet does not fit the > > > > >>>> bill > > > > >>>>> either (and has a > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> different > objective anyway). But time has > > > > >>>> come > > > > >>>>> to really start > thinking > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> of regulating > the IT profession, even as we > > > > >>>>> struggle to regulate > the > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead > > > > >>>> on > > > > >>>>> this, but they have > been > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> awfully quite > except when they award prizes > > > > >>>> at > > > > >>>>> the end of the year > > > > >>>>> (Waudo > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> I know u will > kill me offline but I just had > > > > >>>> to > > > > >>>>> say it!). > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> KEPSA? very > reputable and effective > > > > >>>> particularly > > > > >>>>> in the Manufacturing > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> sector but on > IT? am not sure they have been > > > > >>>> as > > > > >>>>> effective - > particularly > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> because the > link between KEPSA/KIF and the > > > > >>>> IT > > > > >>>>> industry has been > 'cloudy' > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> for lack of a > better word...Can for example > > > > >>>> CSK > > > > >>>>> or ISACA be part of > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> KEPSA without > being part of KIF? I again > > > > >>>> need to > > > > >>>>> be enlightened. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> O.K. I agree I > did digress, but just > > > > >>>> thinking > > > > >>>>> loudly and saying that > as > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> we think of > regulating electronic > > > > >>>> transactions, > > > > >>>>> we also need to > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> simultaneously > start regulating the IT > > > > >>>>> profession..but maybe > I am wrong. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Particularly > because regulation can and > > > > >>>> often > > > > >>>>> leads to > suppression... > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> walu. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> --- On Sun, > 7/6/08, Marcel Werner > > > > >>>>> > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> From: > Marcel Werner > > > > >>>>> > <[email protected]> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Subject: > [kictanet] Legislation and > > > > >>>>> Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> To: > [email protected] > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Cc: > [email protected], > > > > >>>> "KICTAnet > > > > >>>>> ICT Policy > Discussions" > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > <[email protected]> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Date: > Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > Legislation and Regulation for > > > > >>>> e-Commerce in > > > > >>>>> Kenya > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Kenya ICT > Federation (KIF) - Briefing > > > > >>>> Note # > > > > >>>>> 3 - Report - > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Public > Panel 19 > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> June 2008 > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will > > > > >>>> add > > > > >>>>> at least one > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> percent > point growth > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> to > Kenya's overall economic growth > > > > >>>>> within five years. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> This is > contingent > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> upon the > adoption of legislation that > > > > >>>>> supports electronic > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > transactions. *Kenya, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> as an > emerging economy and regional > > > > >>>> leader, > > > > >>>>> lags behind in > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> having a > legal > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> framework > for e-commerce in place. The > > > > >>>>> current situation is > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> an > anachronism > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> hampering > national development, placing > > > > >>>>> provincial centres > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> at a > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > disadvantage, and harming global > > > > >>>>> competitiveness. Both > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> external > and internal > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> trade > require the new framework.The > > > > >>>> Kenyan > > > > >>>>> private sector > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> strongly > supports > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> e-commerce > legislation, as well as > > > > >>>>> legislation of the > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > Information and > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > Communication Technology sector that > > > > >>>>> guarantees an open > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> market and > promotes > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > innovation. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Why > e-commerce law? Today, legislation > > > > >>>>> supporting > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> electronic > transactions > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> represents > the single most powerful > > > > >>>>> innovation opportunity > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> in the > legal > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> framework > of the ICT sector. > > > > >>>> Legislation is > > > > >>>>> needed to: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> -Legalize > e-commerce transactions by > > > > >>>>> recognizing an > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> electronic > signature > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> -Manage > and control e-commerce r > > > > >>> <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY > ASSOCIATION.doc> > > > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > > > > >>> kictanet mailing list > > > > >>> [email protected] > > > > >>> > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > >>> > > > > >>> This message was sent to: > [email protected] > > > > >>> Unsubscribe or change your > options at > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com > > > > >> > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > > >> kictanet mailing list > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > >> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > >> > > > > >> This message was sent to: > [email protected] > > > > >> Unsubscribe or change your options > at > > > > >> > > > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.c > > om > > > > > People make a plan work, a plan alone > seldom makes people work > > > > > (Confucius). > > > > > > > > People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom > makes people work > > (Confucius). > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > kictanet mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > > > This message was sent to: [email protected] > > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Joseph Manthi > > > CEO > > > MEO Ltd > > > http://www.meoltd.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > kictanet mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > > > This message was sent to: [email protected] > > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Brian Munyao Longwe > > > e-mail: [email protected] > > > cell: + 254 722 518 744 > > > blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com > > > meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > kictanet mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > > > This message was sent to: > [email protected] > > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > > > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alexgakuru.lists%40gmai > > l.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > kictanet mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > This message was sent to: [email protected] > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/marcelcwerner%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > -- > > MARCEL > > > > please send any business mail to: > > [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > > kictanet mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > This message was sent to: [email protected] > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com_______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: [email protected] > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
Walu, My opinion is that all associations have their own strengths. They are all unique. They all serve members in different ways. All leaders and members of associations of ICT's subscribe to Kictanet. Could Kictanet be thought off as a big virtual board room? With definite capacity to bring consensus to all issues off ICT's in National development. Kictanet is hard working, they work on Sunday too.. Some times in the middle off the night. Kevit Desai -----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of John Walubengo Sent: 12 July 2008 12:12 To: [email protected] Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfor e-Commerce in Kenya Hey all, I have been out in some bush last 2days and just getting online now... Must admit this thread got personal along the way. Lets try and focus on the bigger picture which i thought was already alluded to a while back by Gilda, Kisonzo amongst others. The big picture seemed to be that the IT fraternity needs to re-organise for better presentation/engagement with Government. Whether that is through KEPSA, KIF, CSK or any other body is a question beyond an online dialogue. Maybe IDRC, DFID, Danida, KICTAnet or any other bodies could convene a stakeholder session to kick-start/review this process? Saying that money was misappropriated or that someone is not Kenyan is really not something to discuss on the KICTAnet forum (remember focus on your core business and you excel). So please lets agree to retire this thread and like all other discussions - encourage the concerned parties and stakeholders to take and act on what is deemed valuable and ignore what is not. walu. --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote: > From: Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> > Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > To: [email protected] > Cc: "kictanet-lists" <[email protected]> > Date: Saturday, July 12, 2008, 10:50 AM > Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF, > > I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on > behalf of > KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent > dialogue. > > As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has > welcomed anyone > with questions to have these answered in person while at > the same time > providing as many answers as this media allows. > > I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and > seriously > dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya. I now humbly > beg you to > forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their > misuse of > this forum. > > As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see > this forum > turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that > have > characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs. > > I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from > Alex, by > Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other > member who > persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month. > > I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to > desist from > the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently > witnessed. > We must work *together* for a better Kenya, and this will > not come > through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions. > > Sincerely > > Brian Munyao Longwe > Chairman, KICTANET > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, "Marcel Werner" > <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Hello Kictanet membership, > > > > The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable > organization, duly > > registered and maintaining a proper governance system > with a > > registered, paid-up membership base consisting of > equally reputable > > ICT associations and companies. > > > > KIF has done a number of useful things over the period > of its > > existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this > week). > > > > Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to > discredit our own > > organization KIF and its members with insinuations and > slander. This > > is unacceptable. > > > > The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of > Kictanet (nr 8). We > > do not wish to be associated with an organization that > lends itself > > to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that > can go on with > > impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and > other's > > initiatives that are being implemented in the public > interest (see > > again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with > doubtful > > legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any > membership > > instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged > nor have we > > paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT > Action > > Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report > (posted on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/ > > ) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. > Personally I had > > highlighted this membership problem already a year ago > in the > > interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid > 2007 in the > > evaluation study of its role and performance - I > have to conclude to > > day that membership management has never been > addressed at Kictanet) > > . We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of > its appointed > > "Members". > > > > We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a > legitimate > > constituency because there is need for a place of > dialogue between > > civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not > playing such a > > role today at all and creates a space for civil > society to alienate > > itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to > clean up its house. > > > > We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in > society, and we > > need to reach out internationally. We don't have > time for any > > nonsense. > > > > Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :) > > > > > > 2008/7/11 kevit desai > <[email protected]>: > > Alex, > > Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established > organization, > > supported by its members who are also reputable and > well established > > organizations. > > I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money > from KIF. > > Please > > verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and > conditions > > since your > > information is false. > > > > It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF > and its > > membership on > > a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have > extended an > > invitation to > > meet so that I can give further explanations. I am > waiting to gauge > > the > > interest in this invitation. > > > > For now I close my participation. > > > > Kevit Desai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gakuru , Alex > [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 > > To: kevit desai > > Cc: kictanet-lists > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in > > Kenya > > > > Kevit; > > > > KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a > certain business > > fund. > > I am curious centurion system hosts them under their > CSR? > > > > Public forum to explain all dealings openly and > transparently?. > > > > regards, > > > > On 7/11/08, kevit desai > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sylvester, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you > would like further > > > information on the following activities: > > > > > > > > > > > > Historical & present- Impact > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular > sectoral > > discussions > > > private sector - Government, with KEPSA) > > > > > > - Power up with ICT nation - wide > awareness campaigns > > (2004, > > 2005, > > > 2006) > > > > > > - E-Government - municipal councils > > > > > > - Open source software community > > > > > > - E-commerce legislation > > > > > > - Engineering student exhibition - 1997 > - 2008 > > > > > > - ICT Bills (2006 - 2008) > > > > > > - Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003) > > > > > > - National ICT Policy formulation (2004 > - 2006) > > > > > > - Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008 > > > > > > - National innovation system > > > > > > - University Education Reforms Task > Force (2006 - current) > > > > > > - PSDS > > > > > > - Africon 2009 > > > > > > - Public panels with Kenya ICT Board > > > > > > > > > > > > Associations: > > > > > > > > > > > > - KEPSA > > > > > > - KIF > > > > > > - IEEE > > > > > > - Kenya software industry association > > > > > > > > > Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This > will allow me to > > gauge > > level > > > of participation so as to plan the venue and also > mobilize the > > relevant > > > leaders. If you are not on board, it would be > great to have you on > > board. > > We > > > need your support > > > > > > > > > > > > Kevit Desai > > > > > > > > > > > > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems > > > > > > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section > > > > > > Chairman - Engineering students exhibition > > > > > > Governor - KEPSA > > > > > > Director - KEPSA > > > > > > Director - Innovation Africa > > > > > > Director- Kenya ICT Board > > > > > > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation > > > > > > BOA - AIESEC > > > > > > Member - National Strategy for University > Education > > > > > > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable > Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya > > > > > > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 > > > > > > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands > -Nairobi > > > > > > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. > > > > > > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: > 020 2049750 > > > > > > Mobile: +254 722 517067 > > > > > > http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com > > > > > > http://www.ieee.org > > > > > > http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke > > > > > > http://www.innovation-africa.net > > > > > > http://www.kepsa.or.ke > > > > > > http://www.powerup.co.ke > > > > > > http://www.aiesec.org > > > > > > http://www.africon2007.co.za > > > > > > http://www.kif.or.ke > > > > > > www.ict.go.ke > > > > > > http://www.globalcompact.org > > > > > > http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > From: > > > > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke > > > > > > [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke > > > ] > > > On Behalf Of Brian Longwe > > > Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Cc: kictanet-lists > > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for e-Commerce > > in > > Kenya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Sylvester, > > > > > > Thank you so very much for highlighting yet > another way in which > > KICTANET > > > is beneficial to the communicat at large. through > KICTANET we all > > learn so > > > many good things that are happening in/around - > and can then make > > our own > > > decisions as to whether to follow up/engage. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester > Kisonzo > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > And where can I read (or get information) about > all these new > > names to me? > > > KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined > this group, I had > > never > > heard > > > of them. So I wonder how all the > 'stakeholders' have all along been > > > involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > SK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > > > [email protected] > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] > > > On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi > > > Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: kictanet-lists > > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for e-Commerce > > in > > Kenya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Waudo: > > > I would like to pose a simple question: > > > > > > Why are these associations needed? > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga > <[email protected] > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the > private sector > > voice. The > > > idea was to bring together EXISTING > associations. Someone got > > early wind > > > that ICT was one of the identified sectors and > decided to > > register a NEW > > > association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The > real umbrella > > body was > > > actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT > Board. Period. Why did > > > someone find a pressing need to form a NEW > association??? > > > > > > Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT > Board is on the > > right > > > track with all associations on board. We have to > struggle to make > > sure > > > it stays that way. I do not understand why you > seem to be > > insisting on > > > someone visiting KIF. What is the value > addition? What can one > > discover > > > there??? Some say there are personal companies > underneath and KIF > > is the > > > front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My > interest is KEPSA > > ICT > > > Board not being equated with KIF. > > > Waudo > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian > Munyao Longwe" > > > <[email protected]> said: > > > > Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF > is KEPSAs "child" > > i.e when > > > > KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF > was established *by* > > KEpsa > > > > to act as the umbrella for ICT private > sector. > > > > > > > > But I stand to be corrected if I'm > getting my facts wrong. But > > if I am > > > > right then it *is* important for any > critics to understand the > > inner > > > > workings by visiting. > > > > > > > > I am urging action instead of just talk. > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > > On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo > siganga" <[email protected] > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Brian - I do not think that the > issue is an interest in the > > > > > internal > > > > > operations of KIF. We are talking > governance in the context > > of KEPSA/ > > > > > KIF > > > > > relationship, something also of > interest to the consumer > > community. > > > > > For > > > > > your information last year all > stakeholders held a meeting in > > KEPSA > > > > > and > > > > > decided to open membership to all > interested Private Sector > > > > > associations. This was after it was > observed that the hitherto > > > > > stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant > that the sector was not > > adequately > > > > > represented. Some people may have felt > unhappy or even > > insecure with > > > > > this development. The problem is that > my friend Kevit, being > > the > > KEPSA > > > > > ICT director uses his position to > constantly market KIF as if > > it is a > > > > > favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I > would like to confirm that > > the > > > > > KEPSA/KIF relationship is > vibrant." - as if implying the other > > > > > associations are dead) He is often > busy promoting "KIF > > Positions" > > > > > instead of "KEPSA Positions" > including using KIF letterheads > > at the > > > > > MSFs. I have misgivings about the > current ICT leadership in > > KEPSA > > > > > but I > > > > > am hopeful things will change. > > > > > > > > > > Waudo > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, > "Brian Munyao Longwe" > > > > > <[email protected]> said: > > > > >> Hi Alex, > > > > >> > > > > >> I would find it hard to imagine > how much more Kevit can > > explain to > > > > >> you > > > > >> about KIF. > > > > >> > > > > >> I would like to suggest that Kevit > extend an invitation to > > you (and > > > > >> anyone else who might be > interested/concerned) to attend the > > next > > KIF > > > > >> meeting as an observer and > see/feel the animal yourself. > > > > >> > > > > >> Brian > > > > >> > > > > >> Sent from my iPhone > > > > >> > > > > >> On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex > Gakuru > > <[email protected]> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> Kevit: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I am afraid you have not > clarified well enough. I shall not > > ask you > > > > >>> further KEPSA questions > although on your previous email you > > told > > > > >>> Waundo "As the director > of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > > > > >>> association to full membership > of KEPSA." Apparently this now > > > > >>> appears to have changed. And I > doubt Waundo complained of > > > > >>> "exclusion" not of > his private self, rather of CSK? I could > > be > > wrong > > > > >>> but he could clarify. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Jun 23, 2008 it was > announced that a "Local Software > > Industry > > > > >>> Association established" > with, among others, "3.1 > > Objective, Market > > > > >>> the local software industry to > venture capitalists." (see > > > > >>> announcement document > attached) Was it registered under > > Societies > > > > >>> Act > > > > >>> ( Read Public interest) or as > Private (non-or-for-profit) > > Company? > > I > > > > >>> found it strange it was formed > 3 days to aour very > > successful and > > > > >>> OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also > under your umbrella? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On the links you sent onlist: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> www.innovation-africa.net > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Domain Name: > INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET > > > > >>> Registrar: TUCOWS INC. > > > > >>> Whois Server: > whois.tucows.com > > > > >>> Referral URL: > http://domainhelp.opensrs.net > > > > >>> Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET > > > > >>> Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET > > > > >>> Status: redemptionPeriod > > > > >>> Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 > > > > >>> Creation Date: 14-may-2007 > > > > >>> Expiration Date: 14-may-2008 > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I tried > www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to > >> > > > www.kif.or.ke > > > > >>> ( but today it now says > "under construction") I gather > > Centurion > > > > >>> Systems offices accommodates > KIF, is that correct? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> What I am trying is to > understand is who speaks in the > > background > > > > >>> when when "KIF" > issues "stakeholders" statements on an > > issue,how > > > > >>> representative or public > service-oriented, good governance, > > in > > > > >>> trying to understand new and > old associations' motives. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> With above information, it > would clear doubts of public > > policy > > > > >>> participation illegitimacy or > inappropriate public > > procurement > > > > >>> involvement(s). For the sake > of our growing transparent ICTs > > > > >>> abundantly rewarding > enterprising citizens. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Alex > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> --- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit > desai > > > <[email protected]> > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> From: kevit desai > <[email protected]> > > > > >>>> Subject: RE: [kictanet] > Legislation and Regulation for e- > > Commerce > > > > >>>> in Kenya > > > > >>>> To: [email protected] > > > > >>>> Cc: > "'kictanet-lists'" > > > <[email protected]> > > > > >>>> Date: Wednesday, July 9, > 2008, 2:50 AM > > > > >>>> Hi Alex, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> I'm pleased to clarify > as much as I can. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Kepsa has an open > membership of PRIVATE sector industry and > > > > >>>> market segment > > > > >>>> associations in almost all > economic sectors. Independence: > > > > >>>> KEPSA decisions > > > > >>>> are dependent on members > wishes, and members are drawn from > > > > >>>> the private > > > > >>>> sector. In fact, NGO's > are not approached for > > > > >>>> membership in KEPSA, > neither > > > > >>>> are government bodies > including parastatals. KIF follows > > > > >>>> the same approach > > > > >>>> for membership and > decision-making. No NGO's and > > > > >>>> government agencies are > > > > >>>> member ofn KIF. However, > KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR > > > > >>>> BASIS with all > > > > >>>> those stakeholders. Having > said that, KEPSA and KIF have no > > > > >>>> obligation to > > > > >>>> offer service to non > members. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Hopefully this helps to > clarify. Do get in touch with Sam > > > > >>>> Mwaura of KEPSA or > > > > >>>> Marcel Werner of KIF. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Kevit > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> -----Original Message----- > > > > >>>> From: Alex Gakuru > [mailto:[email protected]] > > > > >>>> Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 > > > > >>>> To: kevit desai > > > > >>>> Cc: kictanet-lists > > > > >>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] > Legislation and Regulation for > > > > >>>> e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Kevit, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> How does KEPSA and KIF > governance relate ensuring decisions > > > > >>>> independence? > > > > >>>> The political issue here > may be monopolization to the > > > > >>>> extent of clouding out > > > > >>>> other actors thereby > generating conflict. The Motive Theory > > > > >>>> steps in. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> We investigate the effects > of competition on subjects' > > > > >>>> attitude towards > > > > >>>> cooperation. Three groups > face three economic environments > > > > >>>> with different > > > > >>>> degrees of competition, > from a benchmark case with no > > > > >>>> competition at all up > > > > >>>> to a perfect competition > case. Subjects contribute > > > > >>>> generously to a public > > > > >>>> project in the absence of > competition, whereas they > > > > >>>> contribute very little > > > > >>>> in the presence of a > maximum degree of competition. A > > > > >>>> diminishing attitude > > > > >>>> towards cooperation > clearly emerges as the degree of > > > > >>>> competition increases. > > > > >>>> Therefore, if cooperation > does enhance well-being, the > > > > >>>> maximum degree of > > > > >>>> competition may be not > efficient. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > > > <http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba > > > > >>>> 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> react. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> --- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit > desai > > > > >>>> > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>> From: kevit desai > > > > >>>> > <[email protected]> > > > > >>>>> Subject: Re: > [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > > > > >>>> e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > >>>>> To: > [email protected] > > > > >>>>> Cc: > [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT > > > > >>>> Policy > Discussions'" > > > > >>>> > <[email protected]> > > > > >>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 8, > 2008, 1:14 PM > > > > >>>>> Hi Waudo, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> As the director of > KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > > > > >>>>> association to full > > > > >>>>> membership of KEPSA. > We look forward to a meaningful > > > > >>>>> partnership. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Kevit Desai > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> _____ > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> From: waudo siganga > > > [mailto:[email protected]] > > > > >>>>> Sent: 08 July 2008 > 13:55 > > > > >>>>> To: Kevit Desai > > > > >>>>> Cc: > [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > > > > >>>>> Discussions' > > > > >>>>> Subject: Re: > [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > > > > >>>>> e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Hello Kevit - I think > one needs to be careful when > > > > >>>> handling > > > > >>>>> KEPSA and KIF at > > > > >>>>> the same time. Do not > use your foothold in KEPSA to > > > > >>>> promote > > > > >>>>> KIF at the > > > > >>>>> expense of other > associations. The explanation is very > > > > >>>>> simple: KEPSA was > > > > >>>>> formed as a focal > point, a bringing together > > > > >>>> characterised > > > > >>>>> by INCLUSIVITY. > > > > >>>>> KIF on the other hand > is an independent association > > > > >>>> and the > > > > >>>>> nature of such > > > > >>>>> an association is > EXCLUSIVITY (through membership > > > > >>>>> mechanism). I would > like > > > > >>>>> to see the promotion > of more associations on the KEPSA > > > > >>>> ICT > > > > >>>>> Board, not just > > > > >>>>> KIF. Please give us > space. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Waudo > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 > 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit > > > > >>>> Desai" > > > > >>>>> > <[email protected]> said: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Hi Alex, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> KEPSA > ([email protected]): private sector policy body > > > > >>>> with > > > > >>>>> its own governance > > > > >>>>> structure. Elected as > a director in private capacity > > > > >>>> and as > > > > >>>>> KIF vice > > > > >>>>> chairman. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> KIF > ([email protected]): membership-based industry > > > > >>>>> association, member > > > > >>>>> of KEPSA's ICT > section. Elected as vice-chairman. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Centurion Systems Ltd: > (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) > > > > >>>>> private company, > > > > >>>>> director, member of > KIF. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Director of > Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Chairperson IEEE - > Kenya Section > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Chairperson - > Engineering Students Exhibition > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Governor - KEPSA > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Director - KEPSA > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Director - Innovation > Africa > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Director- Kenya ICT > Board > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Vice Chairman - Kenya > ICT Federation > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> BOA - AIESEC > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Member - National > Strategy for University Education > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Co-ordinator - Growing > Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP > > > > >>>> Kenya > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> General Co-Chair - > Africon 2009 > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> 2nd Fl, New Rehema > Hse, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Raphta Rd > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> , Westlands -Nairobi > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 > Nrb. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 > Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 > > > > >>>>> 2049750 > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Mobile: +254 722 > 517067 > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> http://www.ieee.org > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > http://www.innovation-africa.net > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> http://www.kepsa.or.ke > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > http://www.powerup.co.ke > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> http://www.aiesec.org > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > http://www.africon2007.co.za > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> http://www.kif.or.ke > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> htpp://www.ict.go.ke > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > http://www.globalcompact.org > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> -----Original > Message----- > > > > >>>>> From: waudo siganga > > > [mailto:[email protected]] > > > > >>>>> Sent: Monday, July 07, > 2008 9:40 PM > > > > >>>>> To: kevit desai > > > > >>>>> Cc: > [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > > > > >>>>> Discussions' > > > > >>>>> Subject: RE: > [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > > > > >>>>> e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Hello Kevit - Since > you sent this message to KICTANET > > > > >>>> I can > > > > >>>>> answer it on > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> the same forum. I > think the picture being painted > > > > >>>> about a > > > > >>>>> rosy situation > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> including > "collaboration" is simply not > > > > >>>> true. The > > > > >>>>> reason to be frank is > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> that there a few in > your KIF who do not want any other > > > > >>>>> association to > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> have a voice in KEPSA > or to interact with Government. > > > > >>>> Could > > > > >>>>> you as a > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> KEPSA director ensure > that all interested associations > > > > >>>>> including the > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> major ones not in KIF > are allowed room to contribute > > > > >>>> in > > > > >>>>> KEPSA? It can be > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> sad if you mis-use > your position in KEPSA only to > > > > >>>> promote > > > > >>>>> KIF and crack > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> down on those you feel > are in the way. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Waudo > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 > 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit > > > > >>>> desai" > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > <[email protected]> said: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Hi Walu, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Associations are > welcome to be members of KEPSA. > > > > >>>> I > > > > >>>>> would like to confirm > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> that the KEPSA/KIF > relationship is vibrant. We > > > > >>>> would > > > > >>>>> like to do a lot > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> more > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> and welcome more > support. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> We appreciate > Waudo's contributions at our > > > > >>>> last > > > > >>>>> ministerial > stakeholder > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> forum. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Collaboration is > the way forward. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Kevit Desai > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> KEPSA Director > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> -----Original > Message----- > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> From: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > > > [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke > > > > >>>> ] > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> On Behalf Of waudo > siganga > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Sent: 07 July 2008 > 19:02 > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> To: > [email protected] > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Cc: > [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy > > > > >>>>> Discussions > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: > [kictanet] Legislation and > > > > >>>> Regulation for > > > > >>>>> e-Commerce in > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Kenya > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Hi Walu - I am > catching you loud and clear on > > > > >>>> GPRS > > > > >>>>> somewhere in the > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> bush. I did bring > out the issue of regulating the > > > > >>>> IT > > > > >>>>> (or ICT) Profession > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> on this list a few > months ago. But the rather > > > > >>>>> unenthusiastic > response I > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> got gave me the > sense that possibly this was not > > > > >>>> the > > > > >>>>> correct list since > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> many of the > subscribers appear just interested in > > > > >>>> ICT > > > > >>>>> Policy rather than > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> being actual IT > Experts. Within the next two > > > > >>>> weeks > > > > >>>>> there will be another > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> list for > professionals and you will be informed > > > > >>>> (you > > > > >>>>> have the > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> qualifications, > don't you??). We are pushing > > > > >>>> for a > > > > >>>>> registration board > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> like thise done > last yeaer for nutritionists and > > > > >>>>> Procurement > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Practitioners. > There is a lot of work going on > > > > >>>>> unheralded. All we > need > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> is a champion or > chanpions in the right place. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Waudo > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 > 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), > > > > >>>> "John > > > > >>>>> Walubengo" > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > <[email protected]> said: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Marcel, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> It looks like > quite some work has been > > > > >>>> ongoing in > > > > >>>>> this > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > area...unfortunately it seems as if it was > > > > >>>>> restricted within KIF > only? > > > > >>>>> I > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> wonder if > Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, > > > > >>>> Waudo r > > > > >>>>> u there?) or > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Information > Security Audit & Control > > > > >>>>> (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) > just to > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> mention some > of the big IT Associations in > > > > >>>> Kenya > > > > >>>>> were involved. I beg > to > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> be > enlightened. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> This brings in > an old question - who really > > > > >>>>> represents the IT > Profession > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> in Kenya? > Shem has been on record as saying > > > > >>>> that > > > > >>>>> IT is the only > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> discipline > where we seem to lack bodies with > > > > >>>> the > > > > >>>>> same authority as LSK > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> (Law Society > of Kenya), IEK (Institute of > > > > >>>>> Engineers of Kenya), > Medical > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Practictioners > Board amongst others to > > > > >>>> regulate > > > > >>>>> the IT Profession. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> And by the > way, KICTAnet does not fit the > > > > >>>> bill > > > > >>>>> either (and has a > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> different > objective anyway). But time has > > > > >>>> come > > > > >>>>> to really start > thinking > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> of regulating > the IT profession, even as we > > > > >>>>> struggle to regulate > the > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead > > > > >>>> on > > > > >>>>> this, but they have > been > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> awfully quite > except when they award prizes > > > > >>>> at > > > > >>>>> the end of the year > > > > >>>>> (Waudo > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> I know u will > kill me offline but I just had > > > > >>>> to > > > > >>>>> say it!). > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> KEPSA? very > reputable and effective > > > > >>>> particularly > > > > >>>>> in the Manufacturing > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> sector but on > IT? am not sure they have been > > > > >>>> as > > > > >>>>> effective - > particularly > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> because the > link between KEPSA/KIF and the > > > > >>>> IT > > > > >>>>> industry has been > 'cloudy' > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> for lack of a > better word...Can for example > > > > >>>> CSK > > > > >>>>> or ISACA be part of > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> KEPSA without > being part of KIF? I again > > > > >>>> need to > > > > >>>>> be enlightened. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> O.K. I agree I > did digress, but just > > > > >>>> thinking > > > > >>>>> loudly and saying that > as > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> we think of > regulating electronic > > > > >>>> transactions, > > > > >>>>> we also need to > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> simultaneously > start regulating the IT > > > > >>>>> profession..but maybe > I am wrong. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Particularly > because regulation can and > > > > >>>> often > > > > >>>>> leads to > suppression... > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> walu. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> --- On Sun, > 7/6/08, Marcel Werner > > > > >>>>> > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> From: > Marcel Werner > > > > >>>>> > <[email protected]> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Subject: > [kictanet] Legislation and > > > > >>>>> Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> To: > [email protected] > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Cc: > [email protected], > > > > >>>> "KICTAnet > > > > >>>>> ICT Policy > Discussions" > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > <[email protected]> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Date: > Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > Legislation and Regulation for > > > > >>>> e-Commerce in > > > > >>>>> Kenya > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Kenya ICT > Federation (KIF) - Briefing > > > > >>>> Note # > > > > >>>>> 3 - Report - > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Public > Panel 19 > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> June 2008 > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will > > > > >>>> add > > > > >>>>> at least one > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> percent > point growth > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> to > Kenya's overall economic growth > > > > >>>>> within five years. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> This is > contingent > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> upon the > adoption of legislation that > > > > >>>>> supports electronic > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > transactions. *Kenya, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> as an > emerging economy and regional > > > > >>>> leader, > > > > >>>>> lags behind in > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> having a > legal > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> framework > for e-commerce in place. The > > > > >>>>> current situation is > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> an > anachronism > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> hampering > national development, placing > > > > >>>>> provincial centres > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> at a > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > disadvantage, and harming global > > > > >>>>> competitiveness. Both > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> external > and internal > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> trade > require the new framework.The > > > > >>>> Kenyan > > > > >>>>> private sector > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> strongly > supports > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> e-commerce > legislation, as well as > > > > >>>>> legislation of the > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > Information and > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > Communication Technology sector that > > > > >>>>> guarantees an open > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> market and > promotes > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > innovation. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Why > e-commerce law? Today, legislation > > > > >>>>> supporting > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> electronic > transactions > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> represents > the single most powerful > > > > >>>>> innovation opportunity > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> in the > legal > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> framework > of the ICT sector. > > > > >>>> Legislation is > > > > >>>>> needed to: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> -Legalize > e-commerce transactions by > > > > >>>>> recognizing an > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> electronic > signature > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> -Manage > and control e-commerce r > > > > >>> <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY > ASSOCIATION.doc> > > > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > > > > >>> kictanet mailing list > > > > >>> [email protected] > > > > >>> > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > >>> > > > > >>> This message was sent to: > [email protected] > > > > >>> Unsubscribe or change your > options at > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com > > > > >> > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > > >> kictanet mailing list > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > >> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > >> > > > > >> This message was sent to: > [email protected] > > > > >> Unsubscribe or change your options > at > > > > >> > > > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.c > > om > > > > > People make a plan work, a plan alone > seldom makes people work > > > > > (Confucius). > > > > > > > > People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom > makes people work > > (Confucius). > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > kictanet mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > > > This message was sent to: [email protected] > > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Joseph Manthi > > > CEO > > > MEO Ltd > > > http://www.meoltd.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > kictanet mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > > > This message was sent to: [email protected] > > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Brian Munyao Longwe > > > e-mail: [email protected] > > > cell: + 254 722 518 744 > > > blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com > > > meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > kictanet mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > > > This message was sent to: > [email protected] > > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > > > > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alexgakuru.lists%40gmai > > l.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > kictanet mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > This message was sent to: [email protected] > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/marcelcwerner%40gmail.c om > > > > > > > > -- > > MARCEL > > > > please send any business mail to: > > [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > > kictanet mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > This message was sent to: [email protected] > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com____ ___________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: [email protected] > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kevit%40centurionsystem sltd.com
Dear Brian, Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman. Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some off the very exciting things we are doing. What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the success and contributions of some people. Kenya's grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner, and others, they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICT's. Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place. Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us all to a common vision of ICT's for National development. I am waiting.. Kevit Desai _____ From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe Sent: 12 July 2008 09:50 To: [email protected] Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF, I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue. As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows. I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya. I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum. As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs. I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month. I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya, and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions. Sincerely Brian Munyao Longwe Chairman, KICTANET Sent from my iPhone On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, "Marcel Werner" <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Kictanet membership, The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies. KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week). Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable. The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on <http://www.kictanet.or.ke/> http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance - I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members". We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house. We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense. Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :) 2008/7/11 kevit desai < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>: Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false. It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation. For now I close my participation. Kevit Desai -----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Kevit; KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR? Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?. regards, On 7/11/08, kevit desai < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004,
2005,
2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
<http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
<http://www.ieee.org> http://www.ieee.org
<http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
<http://www.innovation-africa.net> http://www.innovation-africa.net
<http://www.kepsa.or.ke> http://www.kepsa.or.ke
<http://www.powerup.co.ke> http://www.powerup.co.ke
<http://www.aiesec.org> http://www.aiesec.org
<http://www.africon2007.co.za> http://www.africon2007.co.za
<http://www.kif.or.ke> http://www.kif.or.ke
<http://www.ict.go.ke> www.ict.go.ke
<http://www.globalcompact.org> http://www.globalcompact.org
<http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit> [email protected]]
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: [email protected] [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bskisonzo> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
<http://www.innovation-africa.net> www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net> http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke> www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> <http://www.kif.or.ke> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
< <http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
> From: kevit desai < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] > Cc: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> > Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM > Hi Waudo, > > As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > association to full > membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful > partnership. > > > > > > Kevit Desai > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: waudo siganga [mailto: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]] > Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 > To: Kevit Desai > Cc: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling > KEPSA and KIF at > the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote > KIF at the > expense of other associations. The explanation is very > simple: KEPSA was > formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised > by INCLUSIVITY. > KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the > nature of such > an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership > mechanism). I would like > to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT > Board, not just > KIF. Please give us space. > > Waudo > > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" > < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> said: > > Hi Alex, > > > > KEPSA ( <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]): private sector policy body with > its own governance > structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as > KIF vice > chairman. > > > > KIF ( <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]): membership-based industry > association, member > of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. > > > > Centurion Systems Ltd: ( <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com> www.centurionsystemsltd.com) > private company, > director, member of KIF. > > > > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd > > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section > > Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition > > Governor - KEPSA > > Director - KEPSA > > Director - Innovation Africa > > Director- Kenya ICT Board > > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation > > BOA - AIESEC > > Member - National Strategy for University Education > > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya > > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 > > > > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, > > Raphta Rd > > , Westlands -Nairobi > > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. > > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 > 2049750 > > Mobile: +254 722 517067 > > > > <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com > > <http://www.ieee.org> http://www.ieee.org > > <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke > > <http://www.innovation-africa.net> http://www.innovation-africa.net > > <http://www.kepsa.or.ke> http://www.kepsa.or.ke > > <http://www.powerup.co.ke> http://www.powerup.co.ke > > <http://www.aiesec.org> http://www.aiesec.org > > <http://www.africon2007.co.za> http://www.africon2007.co.za > > <http://www.kif.or.ke> http://www.kif.or.ke > > htpp:// <http://www.ict.go.ke> www.ict.go.ke > > <http://www.globalcompact.org> http://www.globalcompact.org > > <http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: waudo siganga [mailto: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]] > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM > To: kevit desai > Cc: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can > answer it on > > the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a > rosy situation > > including "collaboration" is simply not true. The > reason to be frank is > > that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other > association to > > have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could > you as a > > KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations > including the > > major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in > KEPSA? It can be > > sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote > KIF and crack > > down on those you feel are in the way. > > Waudo > > > > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai" > > < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> said: > >> Hi Walu, > >> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I > would like to confirm > >> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would > like to do a lot > >> more > >> and welcome more support. > >> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last > ministerial stakeholder > >> forum. > >> Collaboration is the way forward. > >> > >> Kevit Desai > >> KEPSA Director > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: >
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >> >
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit> [email protected]
] > >> On Behalf Of waudo siganga > >> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 > >> To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] > >> Cc: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions > >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in > >> Kenya > >> > >> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS > somewhere in the > >> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT > (or ICT) Profession > >> on this list a few months ago. But the rather > unenthusiastic response I > >> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not the > correct list since > >> many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT > Policy rather than > >> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks > there will be another > >> list for professionals and you will be informed (you > have the > >> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a > registration board > >> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and > Procurement > >> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on > unheralded. All we need > >> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. > >> Waudo > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John > Walubengo" > >> < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> said: > >>> Marcel, > >>> > >>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in > this > >>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was > restricted within KIF only? > I > >>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r > u there?) or > >>> Information Security Audit & Control > (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to > >>> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya > were involved. I beg to > >>> be enlightened. > >>> > >>> This brings in an old question - who really > represents the IT Profession > >>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying that > IT is the only > >>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with the > same authority as LSK > >>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of > Engineers of Kenya), Medical > >>> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate > the IT Profession. > >>> > >>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill > either (and has a > >>> different objective anyway). But time has come > to really start thinking > >>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we > struggle to regulate the > >>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on > this, but they have been > >>> awfully quite except when they award prizes at > the end of the year > (Waudo > >>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to > say it!). > >>> > >>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective particularly > in the Manufacturing > >>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as > effective - particularly > >>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT > industry has been 'cloudy' > >>> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK > or ISACA be part of > >>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to > be enlightened. > >>> > >>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just thinking > loudly and saying that as > >>> we think of regulating electronic transactions, > we also need to > >>> simultaneously start regulating the IT > profession..but maybe I am wrong. > >>> Particularly because regulation can and often > leads to suppression... > >>> > >>> walu. > >>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner > < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Marcel Werner > < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> > >>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > >>>> To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] > >>>> Cc: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected], "KICTAnet > ICT Policy Discussions" > >> < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> > >>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM > >>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in > Kenya > >>>> > >>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # > 3 - Report - > >>>> Public Panel 19 > >>>> June 2008 > >>>> > >>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add > at least one > >>>> percent point growth > >>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth > within five years. > >>>> This is contingent > >>>> upon the adoption of legislation that > supports electronic > >>>> transactions. *Kenya, > >>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, > lags behind in > >>>> having a legal > >>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The > current situation is > >>>> an anachronism > >>>> hampering national development, placing > provincial centres > >>>> at a > >>>> disadvantage, and harming global > competitiveness. Both > >>>> external and internal > >>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan > private sector > >>>> strongly supports > >>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as > legislation of the > >>>> Information and > >>>> Communication Technology sector that > guarantees an open > >>>> market and promotes > >>>> innovation. > >>>> > >>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation > supporting > >>>> electronic transactions > >>>> represents the single most powerful > innovation opportunity > >>>> in the legal > >>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is > needed to: > >>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by > recognizing an > >>>> electronic signature > >>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/marcelcwerner%40gmail. com> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/marcelcwerner%40gmail.c om -- MARCEL please send any business mail to: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
Kevit This is the height of arrogance - excuse my sceptism. The names you have just mentioned are the exact reasons why Kenyan's should be very ashamed of themselves. I do not see Kenyan's directing major corporations in India and Europe. Joe On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:52 PM, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Brian,
Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman.
Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some off the very exciting things we are doing.
What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the success and contributions of some people. Kenya's grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner, and others, they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICT's.
Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place.
Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us all to a common vision of ICT's for National development.
I am waitingā¦.
Kevit Desai
------------------------------
*From:* kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@ lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit<kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Brian Munyao Longwe *Sent:* 12 July 2008 09:50 *To:* [email protected] *Cc:* kictanet-lists *Subject:* [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya
Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF,
I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue.
As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows.
I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya. I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum.
As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs.
I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month.
I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya, and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions.
Sincerely
Brian Munyao Longwe
Chairman, KICTANET
Sent from my iPhone
On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, "Marcel Werner" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello Kictanet membership,
The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies.
KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week).
Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable.
The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on <http://www.kictanet.or.ke/>http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance ā I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members".
We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house.
We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense.
Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :)
2008/7/11 kevit desai < <[email protected]> [email protected]>:
Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false.
It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation.
For now I close my participation.
Kevit Desai
-----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto: <[email protected]> [email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24
To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit;
KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR?
Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?.
regards,
On 7/11/08, kevit desai < <[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004,
2005,
2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
<http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/>http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
<http://www.ieee.org/>http://www.ieee.org
<http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
<http://www.innovation-africa.net/>http://www.innovation-africa.net
<http://www.kepsa.or.ke/>http://www.kepsa.or.ke
<http://www.powerup.co.ke/>http://www.powerup.co.ke
<http://www.aiesec.org/>http://www.aiesec.org
<http://www.africon2007.co.za/>http://www.africon2007.co.za
<http://www.kif.or.ke/>http://www.kif.or.ke
<http://www.ict.go.ke/>www.ict.go.ke
<http://www.globalcompact.org/>http://www.globalcompact.org
<http://www.undp.org/business/gsb>http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= [email protected]]
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: <[email protected]>[email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo < <[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: [email protected] [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo <kictanet-bounces%2Bskisonzo>= [email protected]] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: <[email protected]>[email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <<[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" < <[email protected]>[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <<[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" < <[email protected]>[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru < <[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
<http://www.innovation-africa.net/>www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET<http://innovation-africa.net/> Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/> http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET <http://ultra103.uk2.net/> Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET <http://ultra104.uk2.net/> Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> <http://www.kif.or.ke/>www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai < <[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
> From: kevit desai < <[email protected]> [email protected]> > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce > in Kenya > To: <[email protected]>[email protected] > Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" < <[email protected]>[email protected]> > Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM > Hi Alex, > > I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can. > > Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and > market segment > associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: > KEPSA decisions > are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from > the private > sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for > membership in KEPSA, neither > are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows > the same approach > for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and > government agencies are > member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR > BASIS with all > those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no > obligation to > offer service to non members. > > Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam > Mwaura of KEPSA or > Marcel Werner of KIF. > > > Kevit > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Gakuru [mailto: <[email protected]> [email protected]] > Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 > To: kevit desai > Cc: kictanet-lists > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > Kevit, > > > How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions > independence? > The political issue here may be monopolization to the > extent of clouding out > other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory > steps in. > > We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' > attitude towards > cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments > with different > degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no > competition at all up > to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute > generously to a public > project in the absence of competition, whereas they > contribute very little > in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A > diminishing attitude > towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of > competition increases. > Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the > maximum degree of > competition may be not efficient. > >
> 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb> > > react. > > > --- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai > < <[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: kevit desai > < <[email protected]>[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya >> To: <[email protected]>[email protected] >> Cc: <[email protected]>[email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT > Policy Discussions'" > < <[email protected]>[email protected]> >> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM >> Hi Waudo, >> >> As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other >> association to full >> membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful >> partnership. >> >> >> >> >> >> Kevit Desai >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: waudo siganga [mailto: <[email protected]>[email protected]] >> Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 >> To: Kevit Desai >> Cc: <[email protected]>[email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions' >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in Kenya >> >> >> >> Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when > handling >> KEPSA and KIF at >> the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to > promote >> KIF at the >> expense of other associations. The explanation is very >> simple: KEPSA was >> formed as a focal point, a bringing together > characterised >> by INCLUSIVITY. >> KIF on the other hand is an independent association > and the >> nature of such >> an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership >> mechanism). I would like >> to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA > ICT >> Board, not just >> KIF. Please give us space. >> >> Waudo >> >> >> >> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit > Desai" >> < <[email protected]>[email protected]> said: >> >> Hi Alex, >> >> >> >> KEPSA ( <[email protected]>[email protected]): private sector
<<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba policy body
> with >> its own governance >> structure. Elected as a director in private capacity > and as >> KIF vice >> chairman. >> >> >> >> KIF ( <[email protected]>[email protected]): membership-based industry >> association, member >> of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. >> >> >> >> Centurion Systems Ltd: ( <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> www.centurionsystemsltd.com) >> private company, >> director, member of KIF. >> >> >> >> Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd >> >> Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section >> >> Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition >> >> Governor - KEPSA >> >> Director - KEPSA >> >> Director - Innovation Africa >> >> Director- Kenya ICT Board >> >> Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation >> >> BOA - AIESEC >> >> Member - National Strategy for University Education >> >> Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP > Kenya >> >> General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 >> >> >> >> 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, >> >> Raphta Rd >> >> , Westlands -Nairobi >> >> P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. >> >> Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 >> 2049750 >> >> Mobile: +254 722 517067 >> >> >> >> <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com >> >> <http://www.ieee.org/>http://www.ieee.org >> >> <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke >> >> <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net >> >> <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/>http://www.kepsa.or.ke >> >> <http://www.powerup.co.ke/>http://www.powerup.co.ke >> >> <http://www.aiesec.org/>http://www.aiesec.org >> >> <http://www.africon2007.co.za/>http://www.africon2007.co.za >> >> <http://www.kif.or.ke/>http://www.kif.or.ke >> >> htpp:// <http://www.ict.go.ke/>www.ict.go.ke >> >> <http://www.globalcompact.org/>http://www.globalcompact.org >> >> <http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: waudo siganga [mailto: <[email protected]>[email protected]] >> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM >> To: kevit desai >> Cc: <[email protected]>[email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions' >> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in Kenya >> >> >> >> Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET > I can >> answer it on >> >> the same forum. I think the picture being painted > about a >> rosy situation >> >> including "collaboration" is simply not > true. The >> reason to be frank is >> >> that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other >> association to >> >> have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. > Could >> you as a >> >> KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations >> including the >> >> major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute > in >> KEPSA? It can be >> >> sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to > promote >> KIF and crack >> >> down on those you feel are in the way. >> >> Waudo >> >> >> >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit > desai" >> >> < <[email protected]>[email protected]> said: >> >>> Hi Walu, >> >>> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. > I >> would like to confirm >> >>> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We > would >> like to do a lot >> >>> more >> >>> and welcome more support. >> >>> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our > last >> ministerial stakeholder >> >>> forum. >> >>> Collaboration is the way forward. >> >>> >> >>> Kevit Desai >> >>> KEPSA Director >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: >> > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> >>> >> >
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= [email protected]
> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of waudo siganga >> >>> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 >> >>> To: <[email protected]> [email protected] >> >>> Cc: <[email protected]>[email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions >> >>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for >> e-Commerce in >> >>> Kenya >> >>> >> >>> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on > GPRS >> somewhere in the >> >>> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the > IT >> (or ICT) Profession >> >>> on this list a few months ago. But the rather >> unenthusiastic response I >> >>> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not > the >> correct list since >> >>> many of the subscribers appear just interested in > ICT >> Policy rather than >> >>> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two > weeks >> there will be another >> >>> list for professionals and you will be informed > (you >> have the >> >>> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing > for a >> registration board >> >>> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and >> Procurement >> >>> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on >> unheralded. All we need >> >>> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. >> >>> Waudo >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), > "John >> Walubengo" >> >>> < <[email protected]>[email protected]> said: >> >>>> Marcel, >> >>>> >> >>>> It looks like quite some work has been > ongoing in >> this >> >>>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was >> restricted within KIF only? >> I >> >>>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, > Waudo r >> u there?) or >> >>>> Information Security Audit & Control >> (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to >> >>>> mention some of the big IT Associations in > Kenya >> were involved. I beg to >> >>>> be enlightened. >> >>>> >> >>>> This brings in an old question - who really >> represents the IT Profession >> >>>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying > that >> IT is the only >> >>>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with > the >> same authority as LSK >> >>>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of >> Engineers of Kenya), Medical >> >>>> Practictioners Board amongst others to > regulate >> the IT Profession. >> >>>> >> >>>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the > bill >> either (and has a >> >>>> different objective anyway). But time has > come >> to really start thinking >> >>>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we >> struggle to regulate the >> >>>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead > on >> this, but they have been >> >>>> awfully quite except when they award prizes > at >> the end of the year >> (Waudo >> >>>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had > to >> say it!). >> >>>> >> >>>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective > particularly >> in the Manufacturing >> >>>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been > as >> effective - particularly >> >>>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the > IT >> industry has been 'cloudy' >> >>>> for lack of a better word...Can for example > CSK >> or ISACA be part of >> >>>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again > need to >> be enlightened. >> >>>> >> >>>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just > thinking >> loudly and saying that as >> >>>> we think of regulating electronic > transactions, >> we also need to >> >>>> simultaneously start regulating the IT >> profession..but maybe I am wrong. >> >>>> Particularly because regulation can and > often >> leads to suppression... >> >>>> >> >>>> walu. >> >>>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner >> < <[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> From: Marcel Werner >> < <[email protected]>[email protected]> >> >>>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and >> Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya >> >>>>> To: <[email protected]>[email protected] >> >>>>> Cc: <[email protected]>[email protected], > "KICTAnet >> ICT Policy Discussions" >> >>> < <[email protected]>[email protected]
>> >>>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM >> >>>>> Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in >> Kenya >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing > Note # >> 3 - Report - >> >>>>> Public Panel 19 >> >>>>> June 2008 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will > add >> at least one >> >>>>> percent point growth >> >>>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth >> within five years. >> >>>>> This is contingent >> >>>>> upon the adoption of legislation that >> supports electronic >> >>>>> transactions. *Kenya, >> >>>>> as an emerging economy and regional > leader, >> lags behind in >> >>>>> having a legal >> >>>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The >> current situation is >> >>>>> an anachronism >> >>>>> hampering national development, placing >> provincial centres >> >>>>> at a >> >>>>> disadvantage, and harming global >> competitiveness. Both >> >>>>> external and internal >> >>>>> trade require the new framework.The > Kenyan >> private sector >> >>>>> strongly supports >> >>>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as >> legislation of the >> >>>>> Information and >> >>>>> Communication Technology sector that >> guarantees an open >> >>>>> market and promotes >> >>>>> innovation. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation >> supporting >> >>>>> electronic transactions >> >>>>> represents the single most powerful >> innovation opportunity >> >>>>> in the legal >> >>>>> framework of the ICT sector. > Legislation is >> needed to: >> >>>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by >> recognizing an >> >>>>> electronic signature >> >>>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list <[email protected]>[email protected]
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Hi John, That kind of talk and reasoning is not helpful. There are actually very many Kenyans out there doing business and being successful all over the world. We should avoid racist/xenophobic insinuations on this list. We have already in the recent past permanently suspended members who persisted in ethic hate-speak. This forum is not a platform for our pet peeves or hangups. I would urge members to think about whether the comment/contribution is related to ICT in terms of policy, advocacy, strategy and/or awareness and desist from posting if not. Brian Sent from my iPhone On 12 Jul 2008, at 9:12 PM, "Joseph Manthi" <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit This is the height of arrogance - excuse my sceptism. The names you have just mentioned are the exact reasons why Kenyan's should be very ashamed of themselves.
I do not see Kenyan's directing major corporations in India and Europe.
Joe
On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:52 PM, kevit desai <[email protected]
wrote: Dear Brian,
Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman.
Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some off the very exciting things we are doing.
What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the success and contributions of some people. Kenya's grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner, and others, they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICT's.
Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place.
Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us all to a common vision of ICT's for National development.
I am waitingā¦.
Kevit Desai
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke ] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe Sent: 12 July 2008 09:50 To: [email protected] Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya
Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF,
I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue.
As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows.
I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya. I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum.
As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs.
I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month.
I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya, and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions.
Sincerely
Brian Munyao Longwe
Chairman, KICTANET
Sent from my iPhone
On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, "Marcel Werner" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello Kictanet membership,
The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies.
KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week).
Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable.
The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/ ) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance ā I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kicta net). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appo inted "Members".
We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house.
We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense.
Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :)
2008/7/11 kevit desai <[email protected]>:
Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false.
It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation.
For now I close my participation.
Kevit Desai
-----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24
To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit;
KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR?
Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?.
regards,
On 7/11/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like
further
information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004, 2005, 2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e- Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo <[email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e- Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]
wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella
actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]
wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being
ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that
KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke ] body was the KEPSA the the next KIF
meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]
wrote:
> Kevit: > > I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you > further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told > Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now > appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of > "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong > but he could clarify. > > On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry > Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market > the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see > announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies > Act > ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I > found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and > OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella? > > On the links you sent onlist: > > www.innovation-africa.net > > Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET > Registrar: TUCOWS INC. > Whois Server: whois.tucows.com > Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net > Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET > Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET > Status: redemptionPeriod > Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 > Creation Date: 14-may-2007 > Expiration Date: 14-may-2008 > > I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to
www.kif.or.ke
> ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion > Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct? > > What I am trying is to understand is who s
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Brian We can stick our heads into the sands all we want but when you look around Kenya you will see major chunks of the economy controlled by foreigners. No self respecting peoples should allow this to happen. Misquoting Nyerere - this is ukoloni mamboleo. What really concerns me right now - and it really pains me - is that we are about tobgive up the ICT industry to a bunch of foreigners. If this is not ICT policy I do not know what is. Again go to India and the EEU and tell me how many Africans are running major ICT corporations. Why are we letting this happen? So that we can look like we are civilized? Does any one else see what I am saying? Joe Joseph Manthi CEO, MEO Ltd T:603 320 2924 F:315 320 2920 On Jul 12, 2008, at 3:38 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi John,
That kind of talk and reasoning is not helpful. There are actually very many Kenyans out there doing business and being successful all over the world.
We should avoid racist/xenophobic insinuations on this list. We have already in the recent past permanently suspended members who persisted in ethic hate-speak. This forum is not a platform for our pet peeves or hangups.
I would urge members to think about whether the comment/contribution is related to ICT in terms of policy, advocacy, strategy and/or awareness and desist from posting if not.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 12 Jul 2008, at 9:12 PM, "Joseph Manthi" <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit This is the height of arrogance - excuse my sceptism. The names you have just mentioned are the exact reasons why Kenyan's should be very ashamed of themselves.
I do not see Kenyan's directing major corporations in India and Europe.
Joe
On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:52 PM, kevit desai <[email protected]
wrote: Dear Brian,
Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman.
Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some off the very exciting things we are doing.
What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the success and contributions of some people. Kenya's grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner, and others, they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICT's.
Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place.
Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us all to a common vision of ICT's for National development.
I am waitingā¦.
Kevit Desai
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke ] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe Sent: 12 July 2008 09:50 To: [email protected] Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya
Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF,
I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue.
As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows.
I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya. I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum.
As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs.
I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month.
I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya, and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions.
Sincerely
Brian Munyao Longwe
Chairman, KICTANET
Sent from my iPhone
On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, "Marcel Werner" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello Kictanet membership,
The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies.
KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week).
Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable.
The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance ā I have to conclude today that membership managemen t has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members".
We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house.
We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense.
Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :)
2008/7/11 kevit desai <[email protected]>:
Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false.
It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation.
For now I close my participation.
Kevit Desai
-----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24
To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit;
KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR?
Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?.
regards,
On 7/11/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like
further
information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004, 2005, 2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces [email protected]
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e- Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo <[email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e- Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]
wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella
actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand
workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]
wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in
internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm
KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said: > Hi Alex, > > I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to > you > about KIF. > > I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and > anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke ] body was the inner the that the the next KIF
> meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself. > > Brian > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]
> wrote: > >> Kevit: >> >> I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you >> further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told >> Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other >> association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now >> appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of >> "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong >> but he could clarify. >> >> On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry >> Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market >> the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see >> announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies >> Act >> ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I >> found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and >> OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella? >> >> On the links you sent onlist: >> >> www.innovation-africa.net >> >> Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET >> Registrar: TUCOWS INC. >> Whois Server: whois.tucows.com >> Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net >> Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET >> Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET >> Status: redemptionPeriod >> Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 >> Creation Date: 14-may-2007 >> Expiration Date: 14-may-2008 >> >> I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke >> ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion >> Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct? >> >> What I am trying is to understand is who s
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Hi Manthi, Now *that* is framed in language we can discuss.... It is true that we do no have a policy that guides the entry of foreign *companies* and/or investors from the standpoint of protecting/ building Kenyan capacity. Take the example of mobile sector, there is not one single operator that is *controlled* locally - this is true for all 4 operators; safaricom, celtel, econet and orange. Is this a good or a bad thing? Hmmm - worth thinking about. Control comes through investment. For the policy angle, look at what Egypt did with the first major mobile infrastructure rollouts. As part of they supply contract they required that the vendor build a local handset manufacture plant on a build-own-opreate-transfer (BOOT) model. Today these plants are 100% egypt owned, creating employment and Egypt manufactures handets for the local market and also exports to many other Arabic speaking countries. Food for thought... Brian Sent from my iPhone On 12 Jul 2008, at 11:35 PM, Joseph Manthi <[email protected]> wrote:
Brian We can stick our heads into the sands all we want but when you look around Kenya you will see major chunks of the economy controlled by foreigners.
No self respecting peoples should allow this to happen. Misquoting Nyerere - this is ukoloni mamboleo.
What really concerns me right now - and it really pains me - is that we are about tobgive up the ICT industry to a bunch of foreigners. If this is not ICT policy I do not know what is.
Again go to India and the EEU and tell me how many Africans are running major ICT corporations.
Why are we letting this happen? So that we can look like we are civilized? Does any one else see what I am saying?
Joe
Joseph Manthi CEO, MEO Ltd T:603 320 2924 F:315 320 2920
On Jul 12, 2008, at 3:38 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi John,
That kind of talk and reasoning is not helpful. There are actually very many Kenyans out there doing business and being successful all over the world.
We should avoid racist/xenophobic insinuations on this list. We have already in the recent past permanently suspended members who persisted in ethic hate-speak. This forum is not a platform for our pet peeves or hangups.
I would urge members to think about whether the comment/ contribution is related to ICT in terms of policy, advocacy, strategy and/or awareness and desist from posting if not.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 12 Jul 2008, at 9:12 PM, "Joseph Manthi" <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit This is the height of arrogance - excuse my sceptism. The names you have just mentioned are the exact reasons why Kenyan's should be very ashamed of themselves.
I do not see Kenyan's directing major corporations in India and Europe.
Joe
On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:52 PM, kevit desai <[email protected]
wrote: Dear Brian,
Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman.
Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some off the very exciting things we are doing.
What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the success and contributions of some people. Kenya's grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner, and others, they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICT's.
Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place.
Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us all to a common vision of ICT's for National development.
I am waitingā¦.
Kevit Desai
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke ] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe Sent: 12 July 2008 09:50 To: [email protected] Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya
Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF,
I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue.
As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows.
I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya. I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum.
As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs.
I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month.
I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya, and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions.
Sincerely
Brian Munyao Longwe
Chairman, KICTANET
Sent from my iPhone
On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, "Marcel Werner" <[email protected]
wrote:
Hello Kictanet membership,
The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies.
KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week).
Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable.
The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance ā I have to conclude today that me mbership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members".
We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house.
We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense.
Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :)
2008/7/11 kevit desai <[email protected]>:
Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false.
Brian, Ā I don't get the moral of your story: is it that it is good the firms are today 100% owned by Egyptians, or that the Egyptians invited/allowed the foreigners to build the infrastructure? Ā Shem --- On Sun, 7/13/08, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote: From: Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya To: "Shem Ochuodho" <[email protected]> Cc: "kictanet-lists" <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 12:28 AM Hi Manthi, Now *that* is framed in language we can discuss.... It is true that we do no have a policy that guides the entry of foreign *companies* and/or investors from the standpoint of protecting/building Kenyan capacity. Take the example of mobile sector, there is not one single operator that is *controlled* locally - this is true for all 4 operators; safaricom, celtel, econet and orange. Is this a good or a bad thing? Hmmm - worth thinking about. Control comes through investment.Ā For the policy angle, look at what Egypt did with the first major mobile Ā infrastructure rollouts. As part of they supply contract they required that the vendor build a local handset manufacture plant on a build-own-opreate-transfer (BOOT) model. Today these plants are 100% egypt owned, creating employment and Egypt manufactures handets for the local market and also exports to many other Arabic speaking countries. Food for thought... Brian Sent from my iPhone On 12 Jul 2008, at 11:35 PM, Joseph Manthi <[email protected]> wrote: Brian We can stick our heads into the sands all we want but when you look around Kenya you will see major chunks of the economy controlled by foreigners.Ā No self respecting peoples should allow this to happen. Misquoting Nyerere - this is ukoloni mamboleo. What really concerns me right now - and it really pains me - is that we are about tobgive up the ICT industry to a bunch of foreigners. If this is not ICT policy I do not know what is. Again goĀ to India and the EEU and tell me how many Africans are running major ICT corporations. Why are we letting this happen? So that we can look like we are civilized? Does any one else see what I am saying? JoeĀ Joseph Manthi CEO, MEO Ltd T:603 320 2924 F:315 320 2920 On Jul 12, 2008, at 3:38 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote: Hi John, That kind of talk and reasoning is not helpful. There are actually very many Kenyans out there doing business and being successful all over the world. We should avoid racist/xenophobic insinuations on this list. We have already in the recent past permanently suspended members who persisted in ethic hate-speak. This forum is not a platform for our pet peeves or hangups.Ā I would urge members to think about whether the comment/contribution is related to ICT in terms of policy, advocacy, strategy and/or awareness and desist from posting if not.Ā Brian Sent from my iPhone On 12 Jul 2008, at 9:12 PM, "Joseph Manthi" <[email protected]> wrote: Kevit This is the height of arrogance - excuse my sceptism.Ā The names you have just mentioned are the exact reasons why Kenyan's should be very ashamed of themselves.Ā Ā I do not see Kenyan's directing major corporations in India and Europe. Ā Joe On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:52 PM, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote: Dear Brian, Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman. Ā Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some off the very exciting things we are doing. Ā What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the success and contributions of some people. Ā Ā Kenya's grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner, and others, they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICT's. Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place. Ā Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us all to a common vision of ICT's for National development. Ā I am waitingā¦. Ā Kevit Desai Ā From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe Sent: 12 July 2008 09:50 To: [email protected] Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya Ā Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF, Ā I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue. Ā As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows. Ā I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya. I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum.Ā Ā As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs. Ā I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month. Ā I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya, and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions. Ā Sincerely Ā Brian Munyao Longwe Chairman, KICTANET Sent from my iPhone On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, "Marcel Werner" <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Kictanet membership, The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies. KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week). Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable. The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance ā I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members". We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house. We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense. Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF Ā Ā :) Ā 2008/7/11 kevit desai <[email protected]>: Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/shemochuodho%40yahoo.co...
Hi All - I am the one that asserted that Kenyan (ICT) associations should be run by Kenyans and I stand by that. It has absolutely nothing to do with racism. Every country has policies to protect its people. Even in the USA you can only stand for president if you were born American. Is that racism? Associations are at the heart of pushing for policy and it pains me to see foreigners jostling Kenyans out of the way and being the ones running up and down the Government corridors carrying "position papers". I find it deplorable that Brian is using his position on the list to threaten to unsubscribe those who do not agree with his views and consign them to the Nyayo House dungeons. Brian you have been partisan on these issues throughout. You are issuing "apologies" to people you already sided with and they are quickly "accepting". At one time you were saying we visit KIF to see how they run meetings as though suggesting Kenyans do not know how to run meetings. Is this the Brian I knew or someone using your mail account? Tafadhali, wacha wananchi wasema hata kama uko pande ile ingine. Waudo On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:52:02 +0300, "kevit desai" <kevit@centurionsystems ltd.com> said: Dear Brian, Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman. Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some off the very exciting things we are doing. What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the success and contributions of some people. KenyaĀs grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner, and others, they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICTĀs. Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place. Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us all to a common vision of ICTĀs for National development. I am waitingĀ . Kevit Desai _________________________________________________________________ From: [email protected]. ke [mailto:[email protected] anet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe Sent: 12 July 2008 09:50 To: [email protected] Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF, I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue. As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows. I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya. I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum. As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs. I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month. I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya, and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions. Sincerely Brian Munyao Longwe Chairman, KICTANET Sent from my iPhone On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, "Marcel Werner" <[1][email protected]> wrote: Hello Kictanet membership, The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies. KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week). Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable. The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on [2]http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance Ā I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members". We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house. We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense. Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :) 2008/7/11 kevit desai <[3][email protected]>: Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false. It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation. For now I close my participation. Kevit Desai -----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto:[4][email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Kevit; KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR? Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?. regards, On 7/11/08, kevit desai <[5][email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like
further
information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004, 2005, 2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd , Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
[6]http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
[8]http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
[9]http://www.innovation-africa.net
[13]http://www.africon2007.co.za
[15]www.ict.go.ke
[16]http://www.globalcompact.org
[17]http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From:
kictanet-bounces+kevit=[18]centurionsystemsltd.com@[19]lists.kict anet.or.ke
[mailto:[20]kictanet-bounces+kevit=[21]centurionsystemsltd.com@[2 2]lists.kictanet.or.ke]
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: [23][email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo <[24][email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From:
kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=[25]gmail.com@[26]lists.kictanet.or.ke
On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: [30][email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[31][email protected]> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella
actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[32][email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand
workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[33][email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in
internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm
KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[34][email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend
meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[35][email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently
appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
[36]www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: [37]INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: [38]whois.tucows.com Referral URL: [39]http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: [40]ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: [41]ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried [42]www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> [43]www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public
participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public
[mailto:[27]kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=[28]gmail.com@[29]lists.kic tanet.or.ke] body was the inner the that the the next KIF this now policy procurement
involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[44][email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[45][email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [46][email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[47][email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[48][email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[50][email protected]> wrote:
> From: kevit desai <[51][email protected]> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > To: [52][email protected] > Cc: [53][email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[54][email protected]> > Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM > Hi Waudo, > > As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > association to full > membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful > partnership. > > > > > > Kevit Desai > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: waudo siganga [mailto:[55][email protected]] > Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 > To: Kevit Desai > Cc: [56][email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling > KEPSA and KIF at > the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote > KIF at the > expense of other associations. The explanation is very > simple: KEPSA was > formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised > by INCLUSIVITY. > KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the > nature of such > an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership > mechanism). I would like > to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT > Board, not just > KIF. Please give us space. > > Waudo > > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" > <[57][email protected]> said: > > Hi Alex, > > > > KEPSA ([58][email protected]): private sector policy
<[49]http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1 /2/fb32f4c6e9ba body
with > its own governance > structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as > KIF vice > chairman. > > > > KIF ([59][email protected]): membership-based industry > association, member > of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. > > > > Centurion Systems Ltd: ([60]www.centurionsystemsltd.com) > private company, > director, member of KIF. > > > > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd > > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section > > Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition > > Governor - KEPSA > > Director - KEPSA > > Director - Innovation Africa > > Director- Kenya ICT Board > > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation > > BOA - AIESEC > > Member - National Strategy for University Education > > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya > > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 > > > > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, > >
Raphta Rd
> > , Westlands -Nairobi > > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. > > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 > 2049750 > > Mobile: +254 722 517067 > > > > [61]http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com > > [62]http://www.ieee.org > > [63]http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke > > [64]http://www.innovation-africa.net > > [65]http://www.kepsa.or.ke > > [66]http://www.powerup.co.ke > > [67]http://www.aiesec.org > > [68]http://www.africon2007.co.za > > [69]http://www.kif.or.ke > > htpp://[70]www.ict.go.ke > > [71]http://www.globalcompact.org > > [72]http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: waudo siganga [mailto:[73][email protected]] > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM > To: kevit desai > Cc: [74][email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can > answer it on > > the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a > rosy situation > > including "collaboration" is simply not true. The > reason to be frank is > > that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other > association to > > have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could > you as a > > KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations > including the > > major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in > KEPSA? It can be > > sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote > KIF and crack > > down on those you feel are in the way. > > Waudo > > > > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai" > > <[75][email protected]> said: > >> Hi Walu, > >> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I > would like to confirm > >> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would > like to do a lot > >> more > >> and welcome more support. > >> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last > ministerial stakeholder > >> forum. > >> Collaboration is the way forward. > >> > >> Kevit Desai > >> KEPSA Director > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: >
kictanet-bounces+kevit=[76]centurionsystemsltd.com@[77]lists.kict anet.or.ke
> >> >
[mailto:[78]kictanet-bounces+kevit=[79]centurionsystemsltd.com@[8 0]lists.kictanet.or.ke
] > >> On Behalf Of waudo siganga > >> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 > >> To: [81][email protected] > >> Cc: [82][email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions > >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in > >> Kenya > >> > >> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS > somewhere in the > >> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT > (or ICT) Profession > >> on this list a few months ago. But the rather > unenthusiastic response I > >> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not the > correct list since > >> many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT > Policy rather than > >> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks > there will be another > >> list for professionals and you will be informed (you > have the > >> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a > registration board > >> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and > Procurement > >> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on > unheralded. All we need > >> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. > >> Waudo > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John > Walubengo" > >> <[83][email protected]> said: > >>> Marcel, > >>> > >>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in > this > >>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was > restricted within KIF only? > I > >>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r > u there?) or > >>> Information Security Audit & Control > (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to > >>> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya > were involved. I beg to > >>> be enlightened. > >>> > >>> This brings in an old question - who really > represents the IT Profession > >>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying that > IT is the only > >>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with the > same authority as LSK > >>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of > Engineers of Kenya), Medical > >>> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate > the IT Profession. > >>> > >>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill > either (and has a > >>> different objective anyway). But time has come > to really start thinking > >>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we > struggle to regulate the > >>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on > this, but they have been > >>> awfully quite except when they award prizes at > the end of the year > (Waudo > >>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to > say it!). > >>> > >>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective particularly > in the Manufacturing > >>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as > effective - particularly > >>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT > industry has been 'cloudy' > >>> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK > or ISACA be part of > >>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to > be enlightened. > >>> > >>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just thinking > loudly and saying that as > >>> we think of regulating electronic transactions, > we also need to > >>> simultaneously start regulating the IT > profession..but maybe I am wrong. > >>> Particularly because regulation can and often > leads to suppression... > >>> > >>> walu. > >>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner > <[84][email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Marcel Werner > <[85][email protected]> > >>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > >>>> To: [86][email protected] > >>>> Cc: [87][email protected], "KICTAnet > ICT Policy Discussions" > >> <[88][email protected]> > >>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM > >>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in > Kenya > >>>> > >>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # > 3 - Report - > >>>> Public Panel 19 > >>>> June 2008 > >>>> > >>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add > at least one > >>>> percent point growth > >>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth > within five years. > >>>> This is contingent > >>>> upon the adoption of legislation that > supports electronic > >>>> transactions. *Kenya, > >>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, > lags behind in > >>>> having a legal > >>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The > current situation is > >>>> an anachronism > >>>> hampering national development, placing > provincial centres > >>>> at a > >>>> disadvantage, and harming global > competitiveness. Both > >>>> external and internal > >>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan > private sector > >>>> strongly supports > >>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as > legislation of the > >>>> Information and > >>>> Communication Technology sector that > guarantees an open > >>>> market and promotes > >>>> innovation. > >>>> > >>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation > supporting > >>>> electronic transactions > >>>> represents the single most powerful > innovation opportunity > >>>> in the legal > >>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is > needed to: > >>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by > recognizing an > >>>> electronic signature > >>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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http://www.innovation-africa.net/ 10. http://www.kepsa.or.ke/ 11. http://www.powerup.co.ke/ 12. http://www.aiesec.org/ 13. http://www.africon2007.co.za/ 14. http://www.kif.or.ke/ 15. http://www.ict.go.ke/ 16. http://www.globalcompact.org/ 17. http://www.undp.org/business/gsb 18. http://centurionsystemsltd.com/ 19. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/ 20. mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit 21. http://centurionsystemsltd.com/ 22. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/ 23. mailto:[email protected] 24. mailto:[email protected] 25. http://gmail.com/ 26. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/ 27. mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo 28. http://gmail.com/ 29. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/ 30. mailto:[email protected] 31. mailto:[email protected] 32. mailto:[email protected] 33. mailto:[email protected] 34. mailto:[email protected] 35. mailto:[email protected] 36. http://www.innovation-africa.net/ 37. http://innovation-africa.net/ 38. http://whois.tucows.com/ 39. http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/ 40. http://ultra103.uk2.net/ 41. 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72. http://www.undp.org/business/gsb 73. mailto:[email protected] 74. mailto:[email protected] 75. mailto:[email protected] 76. http://centurionsystemsltd.com/ 77. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/ 78. mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit 79. http://centurionsystemsltd.com/ 80. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/ 81. mailto:[email protected] 82. mailto:[email protected] 83. mailto:[email protected] 84. mailto:[email protected] 85. mailto:[email protected] 86. mailto:[email protected] 87. mailto:[email protected] 88. mailto:[email protected] 89. mailto:[email protected] 90. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet 91. mailto:[email protected] 92. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/[email protected] 93. mailto:[email protected] 94. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet 95. mailto:[email protected] 96. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/[email protected] 97. mailto:[email protected] 98. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet 99. 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http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/[email protected] Hidden links: 122. http://www.kictanet.or.ke/ 123. mailto:[email protected] 124. mailto:[email protected] 125. mailto:[email protected] 126. http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/ 127. http://www.ieee.org/ 128. http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/ 129. http://www.innovation-africa.net/ 130. http://www.kepsa.or.ke/ 131. http://www.powerup.co.ke/ 132. http://www.aiesec.org/ 133. http://www.africon2007.co.za/ 134. http://www.kif.or.ke/ 135. http://www.ict.go.ke/ 136. http://www.globalcompact.org/ 137. http://www.undp.org/business/gsb 138. mailto:[email protected] 139. mailto:[email protected] 140. mailto:[email protected] 141. mailto:[email protected] 142. mailto:[email protected] 143. mailto:[email protected] 144. mailto:[email protected] 145. mailto:[email protected] 146. http://www.innovation-africa.net/ 147. http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/ 148. http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/ 149. http://www.kif.or.ke/ 150. mailto:[email protected] 151. mailto:[email protected] 152. mailto:[email protected] 153. mailto:[email protected] 154. mailto:[email protected] 155. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba 156. mailto:[email protected] 157. mailto:[email protected] 158. mailto:[email protected] 159. mailto:[email protected] 160. mailto:[email protected] 161. mailto:[email protected] 162. mailto:[email protected] 163. mailto:[email protected] 164. mailto:[email protected] 165. mailto:[email protected] 166. http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/ 167. http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/ 168. http://www.ieee.org/ 169. http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/ 170. http://www.innovation-africa.net/ 171. http://www.kepsa.or.ke/ 172. http://www.powerup.co.ke/ 173. http://www.aiesec.org/ 174. http://www.africon2007.co.za/ 175. http://www.kif.or.ke/ 176. http://www.ict.go.ke/ 177. http://www.globalcompact.org/ 178. http://www.undp.org/business/gsb 179. mailto:[email protected] 180. mailto:[email protected] 181. mailto:[email protected] 182. mailto:[email protected] 183. mailto:[email protected] 184. mailto:[email protected] 185. mailto:[email protected] 186. mailto:[email protected] 187. mailto:[email protected] 188. mailto:[email protected] 189. mailto:[email protected] 190. mailto:[email protected] 191. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet 192. mailto:[email protected] 193. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/[email protected] 194. mailto:[email protected] 195. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet 196. mailto:[email protected] 197. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/[email protected] 198. mailto:[email protected] 199. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet 200. mailto:[email protected] 201. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/[email protected] 202. http://www.meoltd.com/ 203. mailto:[email protected] 204. 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Gentlemen, Before these so called foreigners got these positions that Kenyans would have occupied, what were Kenyans waiting for? (Honest question.) If there is a higher appointing authority that picks these so called foreigners over Kenyans then it's them to blame (if there is a good reason). That said, as much as free speech is appreciated, so is discretion. Sorry to say but it is embarrassing to read some of these posts. Regards. --- On Sun, 7/13/08, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote: From: waudo siganga <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 9:19 AM Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya Hi All - I am the one that asserted that Kenyan (ICT) associations should be run by Kenyans and I stand by that. It has absolutely nothing to do with racism. Every country has policies to protect its people. Even in the USA you can only stand for president if you were born American. Is that racism? Associations are at the heart of pushing for policy and it pains me to see foreigners jostling Kenyans out of the wayĀ and being the ones running up and down the Government corridors carrying "position papers".I find it deplorable that Brian is using his position on the list to threaten to unsubscribe those who do not agree with his views and consign them to the Nyayo House dungeons. Brian you have been partisan on these issues throughout. You are issuing "apologies" to people you already sided with and they are quickly "accepting".Ā At one time you were saying we visit KIF to see how they run meetings as though suggesting Kenyans do not know how to run meetings. Is this the Brian I knew or someone using your mail account? Tafadhali, wacha wananchi wasema hata kama uko pande ile ingine.WaudoĀ On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:52:02 +0300, "kevit desai" <[email protected]> said: Dear Brian,Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman.Ā Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some off the very exciting things we are doing.Ā What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the success and contributions of some people. Ā Ā Kenya ās grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner , and others, they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICTās. Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place.Ā Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us all to a common vision of ICTās for National development. Ā I am waitingā¦.Ā Kevit DesaiĀ From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe Sent: 12 July 2008 09:50 To: [email protected] Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in KenyaĀ Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF,Ā I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue.Ā As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows.Ā I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya . I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum.Ā Ā As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs.Ā I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month.Ā I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya , and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions.Ā SincerelyĀ Brian Munyao LongweChairman, KICTANET Sent from my iPhone On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, " Marcel Werner " <[email protected]> wrote:Hello Kictanet membership,The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies.KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week).Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable.The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance ā I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members".We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house.We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense.Best regards, Marcel Werner , chairman of KIF Ā Ā :)Ā 2008/7/11 kevit desai <[email protected]>:Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false. It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation. For now I close my participation. Kevit Desai -----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Kevit; KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR? Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?. regards, On 7/11/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Ā Historical & present- Impact
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004,
2005,
2006)
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā E-Government - municipal councils
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Open source software community
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā E-commerce legislation
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā National innovation system
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā PSDS
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Africon 2009
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā KEPSA
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā KIF
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā IEEE
- Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd , Westlands - Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile : +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
Ā ________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke]
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Ā Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 Ā To: [email protected]
Ā Cc: kictanet-lists Ā Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Ā Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Ā Regards,
Ā Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo <[email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Ā Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Ā Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 Ā To: [email protected]
Ā Cc: kictanet-lists Ā Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: Ā I would like to pose a simple question:
Ā Why are these associations needed?
Ā Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The Ā idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind Ā that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW Ā association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was Ā actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did Ā someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Ā Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right Ā track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure Ā it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on Ā someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover Ā there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the Ā front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Ā Board not being equated with KIF. Ā Waudo
Ā On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" Ā <[email protected]> said: Ā > Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when Ā > KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa Ā > to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector. Ā > Ā > But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am Ā > right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner Ā > workings by visiting. Ā > Ā > I am urging action instead of just talk. Ā > Ā > Brian Ā > Ā > Sent from my iPhone Ā > Ā > On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]> Ā > wrote: Ā > Ā > > Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the Ā > > internal Ā > > operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ Ā > > KIF Ā > > relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. Ā > > For Ā > > your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA Ā > > and Ā > > decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector Ā > > associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto Ā > > stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately Ā > > represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with Ā > > this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA Ā > > ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a Ā > > favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the Ā > > KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other Ā > > associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" Ā > > instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the Ā > > MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA Ā > > but I Ā > > am hopeful things will change. Ā > > Ā > > Waudo Ā > > Ā > > On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" Ā > > <[email protected]> said: Ā > >> Hi Alex, Ā > >> Ā > >> I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to Ā > >> you Ā > >> about KIF. Ā > >> Ā > >> I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and Ā > >> anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF Ā > >> meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself. Ā > >> Ā > >> Brian Ā > >> Ā > >> Sent from my iPhone Ā > >> Ā > >> On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> Ā > >> wrote: Ā > >> Ā > >>> Kevit: Ā > >>> Ā > >>> I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you Ā > >>> further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Ā > >>> Waundo "As the director of KEPSA Ā I welcome CSK and any other Ā > >>> association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now Ā > >>> appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of Ā > >>> "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong Ā > >>> but he could clarify. Ā > >>> Ā > >>> On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Ā > >>> Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market Ā > >>> the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see Ā > >>> announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Ā > >>> Act Ā > >>> ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I Ā > >>> found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and Ā > >>> OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella? Ā > >>> Ā > >>> On the links you sent onlist: Ā > >>> Ā > >>> www.innovation-africa.net Ā > >>> Ā > >>> Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Ā > >>> Ā Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Ā > >>> Ā Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Ā > >>> Ā Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Ā > >>> Ā Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Ā > >>> Ā Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Ā > >>> Ā Status: redemptionPeriod Ā > >>> Ā Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Ā > >>> Ā Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Ā > >>> Ā Expiration Date: 14-may-2008 Ā > >>> Ā > >>> I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke Ā > >>> ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Ā > >>> Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct? Ā > >>> Ā > >>> What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background Ā > >>> when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how Ā > >>> representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in Ā > >>> trying to understand new and old associations' motives. Ā > >>> Ā > >>> With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy Ā > >>> participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement Ā > >>> involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs Ā > >>> abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens. Ā > >>> Ā > >>> Ā > >>> Alex Ā > >>> Ā > >>> Ā > >>> --- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> Ā > >>> wrote: Ā > >>> Ā > >>>> From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Ā > >>>> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce Ā > >>>> in Kenya Ā > >>>> To: [email protected] Ā > >>>> Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Ā > >>>> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Ā > >>>> Hi Alex, Ā > >>>> Ā > >>>> I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can. Ā > >>>> Ā > >>>> Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and Ā > >>>> market segment Ā > >>>> associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence : Ā > >>>> KEPSA decisions Ā > >>>> are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from Ā > >>>> the private Ā > >>>> sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for Ā > >>>> membership in KEPSA, neither Ā > >>>> are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows Ā > >>>> the same approach Ā > >>>> for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and Ā > >>>> government agencies are Ā > >>>> member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR Ā > >>>> BASIS with all Ā > >>>> those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no Ā > >>>> obligation to Ā > >>>> offer service to non members. Ā > >>>> Ā > >>>> Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Ā > >>>> Mwaura of KEPSA or Ā > >>>> Marcel Werner of KIF. Ā > >>>> Ā > >>>> Ā > >>>> Kevit Ā > >>>> Ā > >>>> Ā > >>>> -----Original Message----- Ā > >>>> From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Ā > >>>> Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 Ā > >>>> To: kevit desai Ā > >>>> Cc: kictanet-lists Ā > >>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for Ā > >>>> e-Commerce in Kenya Ā > >>>> Ā > >>>> Kevit, Ā > >>>> Ā > >>>> Ā > >>>> How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions Ā > >>>> independence? Ā > >>>> The political issue here may be monopolization to the Ā > >>>> extent of clouding out Ā > >>>> other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory Ā > >>>> steps in. Ā > >>>> Ā > >>>> We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' Ā > >>>> attitude towards Ā > >>>> cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments Ā > >>>> with different Ā > >>>> degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no Ā > >>>> competition at all up Ā > >>>> to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute Ā > >>>> generously to a public Ā > >>>> project in the absence of competition, whereas they Ā > >>>> contribute very little Ā > >>>> in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A Ā > >>>> diminishing attitude Ā > >>>> towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of Ā > >>>> competition increases. Ā > >>>> Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the Ā > >>>> maximum degree of Ā > >>>> competition may be not efficient. Ā > >>>> Ā > >>>>
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
Ā > >>>> 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb> Ā > >>>> Ā > >>>> react. Ā > >>>> Ā > >>>> Ā > >>>> --- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai Ā > >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: Ā > >>>> Ā > >>>>> From: kevit desai Ā > >>>> <[email protected]> Ā > >>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for Ā > >>>> e-Commerce in Kenya Ā > >>>>> To: [email protected] Ā > >>>>> Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Ā > >>>> Policy Discussions'" Ā > >>>> <[email protected]> Ā > >>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM Ā > >>>>> Hi Waudo, Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> As the director of KEPSA Ā I welcome CSK and any other Ā > >>>>> association to full Ā > >>>>> membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful Ā > >>>>> partnership. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Kevit Desai Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> _____ Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Ā > >>>>> Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 Ā > >>>>> To: Kevit Desai Ā > >>>>> Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Ā > >>>>> Discussions' Ā > >>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for Ā > >>>>> e-Commerce in Kenya Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when Ā > >>>> handling Ā > >>>>> KEPSA and KIF at Ā > >>>>> the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to Ā > >>>> promote Ā > >>>>> KIF at the Ā > >>>>> expense of other associations. The explanation is very Ā > >>>>> simple: KEPSA was Ā > >>>>> formed as a focal point, a bringing together Ā > >>>> characterised Ā > >>>>> by INCLUSIVITY. Ā > >>>>> KIF on the other hand is an independent association Ā > >>>> and the Ā > >>>>> nature of such Ā > >>>>> an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership Ā > >>>>> mechanism). I would like Ā > >>>>> to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA Ā > >>>> ICT Ā > >>>>> Board, not just Ā > >>>>> KIF. Please give us space. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Waudo Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Ā > >>>> Desai" Ā > >>>>> <[email protected]> said: Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Hi Alex, Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body Ā > >>>> with Ā > >>>>> its own governance Ā > >>>>> structure. Elected as a director in private capacity Ā > >>>> and as Ā > >>>>> KIF vice Ā > >>>>> chairman. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry Ā > >>>>> association, member Ā > >>>>> of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) Ā > >>>>> private company, Ā > >>>>> director, member of KIF. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Governor - KEPSA Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Director - KEPSA Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Director - Innovation Africa Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Director- Kenya ICT Board Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> BOA - AIESEC Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Member - National Strategy for University Education Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Ā > >>>> Kenya Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Raphta Rd Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> , Westlands - Nairobi Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 Ā > >>>>> 2049750 Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Mobile : +254 722 517067 Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> http://www.ieee.org Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> http://www.innovation-africa.net Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> http://www.kepsa.or.ke Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> http://www.powerup.co.ke Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> http://www.aiesec.org Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> http://www.africon2007.co.za Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> http://www.kif.or.ke Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> htpp://www.ict.go.ke Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> http://www.globalcompact.org Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> -----Original Message----- Ā > >>>>> From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Ā > >>>>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM Ā > >>>>> To: kevit desai Ā > >>>>> Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Ā > >>>>> Discussions' Ā > >>>>> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for Ā > >>>>> e-Commerce in Kenya Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET Ā > >>>> I can Ā > >>>>> answer it on Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> the same forum. I think the picture being painted Ā > >>>> about a Ā > >>>>> rosy situation Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> including "collaboration" is simply not Ā > >>>> true. The Ā > >>>>> reason to Ā be frank is Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other Ā > >>>>> association to Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Ā > >>>> Could Ā > >>>>> you as a Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations Ā > >>>>> including the Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute Ā > >>>> in Ā > >>>>> KEPSA? It can be Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to Ā > >>>> promote Ā > >>>>> KIF and crack Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> down on those you feel are in the way. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Waudo Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit Ā > >>>> desai" Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>> <[email protected]> said: Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Hi Walu, Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. Ā > >>>> I Ā > >>>>> would like to confirm Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. Ā We Ā > >>>> would Ā > >>>>> like to do a lot Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> more Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> and welcome more support. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our Ā > >>>> last Ā > >>>>> ministerial stakeholder Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> forum. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Collaboration is the way forward. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Kevit Desai Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> KEPSA Director Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> From: Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>> kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
Ā > >>>> ] Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> On Behalf Of waudo siganga Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> To: [email protected] Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy Ā > >>>>> Discussions Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Ā > >>>> Regulation for Ā > >>>>> e-Commerce in Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Kenya Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on Ā > >>>> GPRS Ā > >>>>> somewhere in the Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the Ā > >>>> IT Ā > >>>>> (or ICT) Profession Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> on this list a few months ago. But the rather Ā > >>>>> unenthusiastic response I Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not Ā > >>>> the Ā > >>>>> correct list since Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> many of the subscribers appear just interested in Ā > >>>> ICT Ā > >>>>> Policy rather than Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two Ā > >>>> weeks Ā > >>>>> there will be another Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> list for professionals and you will be informed Ā > >>>> (you Ā > >>>>> have the Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing Ā > >>>> for a Ā > >>>>> registration board Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> like thise done last yeaer for Ā nutritionists and Ā > >>>>> Procurement Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on Ā > >>>>> unheralded. All we need Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Waudo Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), Ā > >>>> "John Ā > >>>>> Walubengo" Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> <[email protected]> said: Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> Marcel, Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> It looks like quite some work has been Ā > >>>> ongoing in Ā > >>>>> this Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was Ā > >>>>> restricted within KIF only? Ā > >>>>> I Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Ā > >>>> Waudo r Ā > >>>>> u there?) or Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> Information Security Audit & Control Ā > >>>>> (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> mention some of the big IT Associations in Ā > >>>> Kenya Ā > >>>>> were involved. I beg to Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> be enlightened. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> This brings in an old question - who really Ā > >>>>> represents the IT Profession Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> in Kenya ? Ā Shem has been on record as saying Ā > >>>> that Ā > >>>>> IT is the only Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with Ā > >>>> the Ā > >>>>> same authority as LSK Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> (Law Society of Kenya ), IEK (Institute of Ā > >>>>> Engineers of Kenya ), Medical Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> Practictioners Board amongst others to Ā > >>>> regulate Ā > >>>>> the IT Profession. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the Ā > >>>> bill Ā > >>>>> either Ā (and has a Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> different objective anyway). Ā But time has Ā > >>>> come Ā > >>>>> to really start thinking Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we Ā > >>>>> struggle to regulate the Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead Ā > >>>> on Ā > >>>>> this, but they have been Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> awfully quite except when they award prizes Ā > >>>> at Ā > >>>>> the end of the year Ā > >>>>> (Waudo Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had Ā > >>>> to Ā > >>>>> say it!). Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective Ā > >>>> particularly Ā > >>>>> in the Manufacturing Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been Ā > >>>> as Ā > >>>>> effective - particularly Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the Ā > >>>> IT Ā > >>>>> industry has been 'cloudy' Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> for lack of a better word...Can for example Ā > >>>> CSK Ā > >>>>> or ISACA Ā be part of Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again Ā > >>>> need to Ā > >>>>> be enlightened. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just Ā > >>>> thinking Ā > >>>>> loudly and saying that as Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> we think of regulating electronic Ā > >>>> transactions, Ā > >>>>> we also need to Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> simultaneously start regulating the IT Ā > >>>>> profession..but maybe I am wrong. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> Particularly because regulation can and Ā > >>>> often Ā > >>>>> leads to suppression... Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> walu. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner Ā > >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> From: Marcel Werner Ā > >>>>> <[email protected]> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and Ā > >>>>> Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> To: [email protected] Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> Cc: [email protected], Ā > >>>> "KICTAnet Ā > >>>>> ICT Policy Discussions" Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>> <[email protected]> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> Legislation and Regulation for Ā > >>>> e-Commerce in Ā > >>>>> Kenya Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Ā > >>>> Note # Ā > >>>>> 3 Ā - Report - Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> Public Panel 19 Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> June 2008 Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will Ā > >>>> add Ā > >>>>> at least one Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> percent point growth Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> to Kenya 's overall economic growth Ā > >>>>> within five years. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> This is contingent Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> upon the adoption of legislation that Ā > >>>>> supports electronic Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> transactions. * Kenya , Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> as an emerging economy and regional Ā > >>>> leader, Ā > >>>>> lags behind in Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> having a legal Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The Ā > >>>>> current situation is Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> an anachronism Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> hampering national development, placing Ā > >>>>> provincial centres Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> at a Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> disadvantage, and harming global Ā > >>>>> competitiveness. Both Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> external and internal Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> trade require the new framework.The Ā > >>>> Kenyan Ā > >>>>> private sector Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> strongly supports Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as Ā > >>>>> legislation of the Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> Information and Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> Communication Technology sector that Ā > >>>>> guarantees an open Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> market and promotes Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> innovation. Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation Ā > >>>>> supporting Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> electronic transactions Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> represents the single most powerful Ā > >>>>> innovation opportunity Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> in the legal Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> framework of the ICT sector. Ā > >>>> Legislation is Ā > >>>>> needed to: Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by Ā > >>>>> recognizing an Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> electronic signature Ā > >>>>> Ā > >>>>>>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r Ā > >>> < KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc> Ā > >>> _______________________________________________ Ā > >>> kictanet mailing list Ā > >>> [email protected] Ā > >>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Ā > >>> Ā > >>> This message was sent to: [email protected] Ā > >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com Ā > >> Ā > >> _______________________________________________ Ā > >> kictanet mailing list Ā > >> [email protected] Ā > >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Ā > >> Ā > >> This message was sent to: [email protected] Ā > >> Unsubscribe or change your options at Ā > >>
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.c om
Ā > > People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work Ā > > (Confucius). Ā > > Ā People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
Ā _______________________________________________ Ā kictanet mailing list Ā [email protected] Ā http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Ā This message was sent to: [email protected] Ā Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmail.com
Ā -- Ā Joseph Manthi Ā CEO Ā MEO Ltd Ā http://www.meoltd.com
Ā _______________________________________________ Ā kictanet mailing list Ā [email protected] Ā http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Ā This message was sent to: [email protected] Ā Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
Ā -- Ā Brian Munyao Longwe Ā e-mail: [email protected] Ā cell: + 254 722 518 744 Ā blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com Ā meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ Ā kictanet mailing list Ā [email protected] Ā http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Ā This message was sent to: [email protected] Ā Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alexgakuru.lists%40gmai l.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/marcelcwerner%40gmail.c... -- MARCEL please send any business mail to: [email protected] _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius). _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kiriinya2000%40yahoo.co...
Why don't we all meet at the Jacaranda, land mark, Westlands at 5.00pm today. At the poolside. Informal discussion. I will be waiting. Kevit Desai _____ From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of wesley kiriinya Sent: 13 July 2008 10:52 To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya Gentlemen, Before these so called foreigners got these positions that Kenyans would have occupied, what were Kenyans waiting for? (Honest question.) If there is a higher appointing authority that picks these so called foreigners over Kenyans then it's them to blame (if there is a good reason). That said, as much as free speech is appreciated, so is discretion. Sorry to say but it is embarrassing to read some of these posts. Regards. --- On Sun, 7/13/08, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote: From: waudo siganga <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 9:19 AM Hi All - I am the one that asserted that Kenyan (ICT) associations should be run by Kenyans and I stand by that. It has absolutely nothing to do with racism. Every country has policies to protect its people. Even in the USA you can only stand for president if you were born American. Is that racism? Associations are at the heart of pushing for policy and it pains me to see foreigners jostling Kenyans out of the way and being the ones running up and down the Government corridors carrying "position papers". I find it deplorable that Brian is using his position on the list to threaten to unsubscribe those who do not agree with his views and consign them to the Nyayo House dungeons. Brian you have been partisan on these issues throughout. You are issuing "apologies" to people you already sided with and they are quickly "accepting". At one time you were saying we visit KIF to see how they run meetings as though suggesting Kenyans do not know how to run meetings. Is this the Brian I knew or someone using your mail account? Tafadhali, wacha wananchi wasema hata kama uko pande ile ingine. Waudo On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:52:02 +0300, "kevit desai" <[email protected]> said: Dear Brian, Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman. Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some off the very exciting things we are doing. What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the success and contributions of some people. Kenya 's grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner , and others, they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICT's. Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place. Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us all to a common vision of ICT's for National development. I am waiting.. Kevit Desai _____ From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe Sent: 12 July 2008 09:50 To: [email protected] Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF, I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue. As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows. I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya . I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum. As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs. I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month. I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya , and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions. Sincerely Brian Munyao Longwe Chairman, KICTANET Sent from my iPhone On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, " Marcel Werner " <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Kictanet membership, The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies. KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week). Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable. The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on <http://www.kictanet.or.ke/> http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance - I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members". We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house. We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense. Best regards, Marcel Werner , chairman of KIF :) 2008/7/11 kevit desai < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>: Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false. It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation. For now I close my participation. Kevit Desai -----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Kevit; KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR? Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?. regards, On 7/11/08, kevit desai < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004,
2005,
2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd , Westlands - Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile : +254 722 517067
<http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
<http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/>
<http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.ieee.org <http://www.ieee.org/>
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/>
<http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net
<http://www.innovation-africa.net/>
<http://www.aiesec.org/> http://www.aiesec.org <http://www.aiesec.org/>
<http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.africon2007.co.za
<http://www.africon2007.co.za/>
<http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/>
<http://www.ict.go.ke/> www.ict.go.ke <http://www.ict.go.ke/>
<http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.globalcompact.org
<http://www.globalcompact.org/>
<http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com
<http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> ]
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com <http://gmail.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com <http://gmail.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> ] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
<http://www.innovation-africa.net/> www.innovation-africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/>
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET <http://innovation-africa.net/> Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com <http://whois.tucows.com/> Referral URL: <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/> http://domainhelp.opensrs.net <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/> Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET <http://ultra103.uk2.net/> Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET <http://ultra104.uk2.net/> Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> www.innovation-africa.co.ke <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> >> was re-directing to >> <http://www.kif.or.ke/> www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/> ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence : KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
< <http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
> From: kevit desai < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] > Cc: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> > Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM > Hi Waudo, > > As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > association to full > membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful > partnership. > > > > > > Kevit Desai > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: waudo siganga [mailto: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]] > Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 > To: Kevit Desai > Cc: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling > KEPSA and KIF at > the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote > KIF at the > expense of other associations. The explanation is very > simple: KEPSA was > formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised > by INCLUSIVITY. > KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the > nature of such > an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership > mechanism). I would like > to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT > Board, not just > KIF. Please give us space. > > Waudo > > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" > < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> said: > > Hi Alex, > > > > KEPSA ( <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]): private sector policy body with > its own governance > structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as > KIF vice > chairman. > > > > KIF ( <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]): membership-based industry > association, member > of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. > > > > Centurion Systems Ltd: ( <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> ) > private company, > director, member of KIF. > > > > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd > > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section > > Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition > > Governor - KEPSA > > Director - KEPSA > > Director - Innovation Africa > > Director- Kenya ICT Board > > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation > > BOA - AIESEC > > Member - National Strategy for University Education > > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya > > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 > > > > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, > >
Raphta Rd
> > , Westlands - Nairobi > > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. > > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 > 2049750 > > Mobile : +254 722 517067 > > > > <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> > > <http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.ieee.org <http://www.ieee.org/> > > <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> > > <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> > > <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> http://www.kepsa.or.ke <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> > > <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> http://www.powerup.co.ke <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> > > <http://www.aiesec.org/> http://www.aiesec.org <http://www.aiesec.org/> > > <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.africon2007.co.za <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> > > <http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/> > > htpp:// <http://www.ict.go.ke/> www.ict.go.ke <http://www.ict.go.ke/> > > <http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.globalcompact.org <http://www.globalcompact.org/> > > <http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: waudo siganga [mailto: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]] > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM > To: kevit desai > Cc: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can > answer it on > > the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a > rosy situation > > including "collaboration" is simply not true. The > reason to be frank is > > that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other > association to > > have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could > you as a > > KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations > including the > > major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in > KEPSA? It can be > > sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote > KIF and crack > > down on those you feel are in the way. > > Waudo > > > > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai" > > < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> said: > >> Hi Walu, > >> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I > would like to confirm > >> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would > like to do a lot > >> more > >> and welcome more support. > >> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last > ministerial stakeholder > >> forum. > >> Collaboration is the way forward. > >> > >> Kevit Desai > >> KEPSA Director > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: >
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
> >> >
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
] > >> On Behalf Of waudo siganga > >> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 > >> To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] > >> Cc: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions > >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in > >> Kenya > >> > >> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS > somewhere in the > >> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT > (or ICT) Profession > >> on this list a few months ago. But the rather > unenthusiastic response I > >> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not the > correct list since > >> many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT > Policy rather than > >> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks > there will be another > >> list for professionals and you will be informed (you > have the > >> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a > registration board > >> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and > Procurement > >> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on > unheralded. All we need > >> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. > >> Waudo > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John > Walubengo" > >> < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> said: > >>> Marcel, > >>> > >>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in > this > >>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was > restricted within KIF only? > I > >>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r > u there?) or > >>> Information Security Audit & Control > (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to > >>> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya > were involved. I beg to > >>> be enlightened. > >>> > >>> This brings in an old question - who really > represents the IT Profession > >>> in Kenya ? Shem has been on record as saying that > IT is the only > >>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with the > same authority as LSK > >>> (Law Society of Kenya ), IEK (Institute of > Engineers of Kenya ), Medical > >>> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate > the IT Profession. > >>> > >>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill > either (and has a > >>> different objective anyway). But time has come > to really start thinking > >>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we > struggle to regulate the > >>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on > this, but they have been > >>> awfully quite except when they award prizes at > the end of the year > (Waudo > >>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to > say it!). > >>> > >>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective particularly > in the Manufacturing > >>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as > effective - particularly > >>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT > industry has been 'cloudy' > >>> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK > or ISACA be part of > >>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to > be enlightened. > >>> > >>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just thinking > loudly and saying that as > >>> we think of regulating electronic transactions, > we also need to > >>> simultaneously start regulating the IT > profession..but maybe I am wrong. > >>> Particularly because regulation can and often > leads to suppression... > >>> > >>> walu. > >>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner > < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Marcel Werner > < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> > >>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > >>>> To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] > >>>> Cc: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected], "KICTAnet > ICT Policy Discussions" > >> < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> > >>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM > >>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in > Kenya > >>>> > >>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # > 3 - Report - > >>>> Public Panel 19 > >>>> June 2008 > >>>> > >>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add > at least one > >>>> percent point growth > >>>> to Kenya 's overall economic growth > within five years. > >>>> This is contingent > >>>> upon the adoption of legislation that > supports electronic > >>>> transactions. * Kenya , > >>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, > lags behind in > >>>> having a legal > >>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The > current situation is > >>>> an anachronism > >>>> hampering national development, placing > provincial centres > >>>> at a > >>>> disadvantage, and harming global > competitiveness. Both > >>>> external and internal > >>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan > private sector > >>>> strongly supports > >>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as > legislation of the > >>>> Information and > >>>> Communication Technology sector that > guarantees an open > >>>> market and promotes > >>>> innovation. > >>>> > >>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation > supporting > >>>> electronic transactions > >>>> represents the single most powerful > innovation opportunity > >>>> in the legal > >>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is > needed to: > >>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by > recognizing an > >>>> electronic signature > >>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r < KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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In only 100 words, let me say that something is giving in here. There is clearly inability by the various 'centers' in providing leadership...which is worrisome because if we 'IT Experts' cannot handle ourselves with decorum, then how can you convince your cousin in the village not to go and kill the other tribesman?? If I recall clearly, some months ago, the Computer Society (Read Waudo) had the Vice President preside over the awards occasion...and...around the same time, the engineering exhibition (Read..Kevit) also had some high level attendees. In other words, what am saying is that I saw synergy at its best and clearly none had advantage over the other. Competition and anonymous entities breed healthy working niches. In my honest opinion, and specifically referring to Waudo, it is pessimistic when finally the genie grants you a wish, you ask the genie to kill your neighbours 98 cows so that you can both have two cows each. I think, your deliberate attempt to '%$Ā£"$Ā£' KIF is myopic. Ask the genie to grant you 98 cows not to kill your neighbours 98 of them. As a conclusion, I must admit that I have never received an email (and I read all my email, including spam) calling me for an AGM/election of any of these organisations...KIF, KICTANET, Consumer Organisation (Alex) and CSK. I have attended sessions in all and some have not held elections in more than ten years. Apparently election fever does not only eat our politicians. Last time I checked, Alice was coordinating Kictanet and yesterday I learnt that there is also a chairman. Some expert also came to my office last year to discuss these structures in Kictanet and nothing ever materialised. In the final analysis, this means that anyone can take advantage of a society that is crippled by bad governance. ICT industry reeks of it. It begins by electing officials acceptable to the players. Who is ready to offer the much needed leadership??? -- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Apartments, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1Ā°17'13.8" E - 36Ā°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke --- On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 10:51 AM, wesley kiriinya <[email protected]> wrote:
Gentlemen,
Before these so called foreigners got these positions that Kenyans would have occupied, what were Kenyans waiting for? (Honest question.)
If there is a higher appointing authority that picks these so called foreigners over Kenyans then it's them to blame (if there is a good reason).
That said, as much as free speech is appreciated, so is discretion. Sorry to say but it is embarrassing to read some of these posts.
Regards.
--- On *Sun, 7/13/08, waudo siganga <[email protected]>* wrote:
From: waudo siganga <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 9:19 AM
Hi All - I am the one that asserted that Kenyan (ICT) associations should be run by Kenyans and I stand by that. It has absolutely nothing to do with racism. Every country has policies to protect its people. Even in the USA you can only stand for president if you were born American. Is that racism? Associations are at the heart of pushing for policy and it pains me to see foreigners jostling Kenyans out of the way and being the ones running up and down the Government corridors carrying "position papers".
I find it deplorable that Brian is using his position on the list to threaten to unsubscribe those who do not agree with his views and consign them to the Nyayo House dungeons. Brian you have been partisan on these issues throughout. You are issuing "apologies" to people you already sided with and they are quickly "accepting". At one time you were saying we visit KIF to see how they run meetings as though suggesting Kenyans do not know how to run meetings. Is this the Brian I knew or someone using your mail account? Tafadhali, wacha wananchi wasema hata kama uko pande ile ingine.
Waudo
I am strongly opposed to top-down opinion quashing by any quarters. We do not have to agree on every issue to paint a rosy state of ICT affairs in Kenya. Who would we be fooling ? I believe this list is mature enough for online democracy as long as conversations are founded and guided by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (attached pdf proudly brought to you by OpenOffice.org;) Article 19 Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. Since others have called me consumer lobbyist, consumer rights advocate, etc, in this context you could also refer to me as Internet Freedom fighter;) --- On Sun, 7/13/08, Bill Kagai <[email protected]> wrote:
As a conclusion, I must admit that I have never received an email (and I read all my email, including spam) calling me for an AGM/election of any of these organisations...KIF, KICTANET, Consumer Organisation (Alex) and CSK. I have attended sessions in all and some have not held elections in more than ten years. Apparently election fever does not only eat our politicians. Last time I checked, Alice was coordinating Kictanet and yesterday I learnt that there is also a chairman. Some expert also came to my office last year to discuss these structures in Kictanet and nothing ever materialised.
In the final analysis, this means that anyone can take advantage of a society that is crippled by bad governance. ICT industry reeks of it. It begins by electing officials acceptable to the players. Who is ready to offer the much needed leadership???
There was a time in Kenya when leadership was an automatic genetic quality. One had to have certain family DNAs, for example, for (s)he to be eligible parliament. Unless one was the son, daughter, nephew, niece, cousin etc of so-or-so from a who-is-whos, (full?) secret database guarded like a warship. That political culture led to deplorable public sector governance and the private sector was justified in uniting in the fight against resultant corruption. Note: It takes two for a corrupt transaction to be completed thus an impeccable private sector governance is a prerequisite. Furthermore, suppose the "private sector" infiltrated government? This would mean privatization of public interest, a government that pursued private profit-driven NOT universal public-interest agenda, example being universal access, services, security etc... Governance questions-ICT Consumers Association of Kenya: This (4-year) old like of attack (not from you Bill) first surfaced in 2005. See attached article. Our lawyers paid registration fees twice after the first set of application documents "got lost" at Sheria house. Next, delayed issuance of certificate of registration, without which it would be illegal to collect membership fees from the public or hold grand public meetings such as the AGM.("Scheduling Next AGM" < http://www.bdix.net/pipermail/ke-internetusers/2008-March/date.html>. The Societies Act, (Cap 108) requires that within 120 days the government either issues applicants with a certificate or a memorandum stating reasons applied association cannot be registered. We were last told to check from the post office since the Act requires certificates be issued through registered post. <http://www.bizcommunity.com/Article/414/78/17690.html> and <http://www.usig.org/countryinfo/laws/Kenya/Kenya%20The%20Societies%20Act%20s.%2011,%20Cap%20108.pdf> At some point last year, someone requested these details suggesting their lawyers could also engage on our behalf. To sort out the root causes of deliberate Consumer Protection frustrations after our diplomatic requests fell on many deaf ears, and others who turned out only interested in updating themselves on our status we go into stealth mode -we do not post *everything* on ke-users list... Justified after after twice paying registration fees. Pingamizi tele za upande na upande ili watumizi wa vyombo vya mawasiliano waendelee kunyanyaswa zinastahili mbinu mwafaka na za kuwatoka na juu.... (The "Politics" i referred to earlier) Consumers, like all other rights, are fought for not served on a silver platter by Telcos and Internet service providers, their partners and collaborators in and out of corridors of power and influence. Our understanding of surrounding policy, legal, regulatory and how government functions has helped find very good support from several government quarters which is only making The ICT Consumers Association even stronger. In view of my Founder Chairman title on our application documents, I hope I have cleared all suggestive authenticity doubts raised, proven our resolute agenda reinforced by our assertive engagement strategy. However, if this is inadequate on own governance let me know and I'll be glad to share more onlist being a believer in online democracy. Furthermore Consumer protection is in and of public interest and we are expected to demand it by the ICT policy .
Dear Bill, I will arrange tohave the secretariat, which Alice heads send you copies of documents which have previously been circulated on this list to all members, and records of meetings where the issues you raise have been addressed, if there are organizations in ICT that have poor governance, those do not include KICTANET. But I do agree with you that both the CSK and Consumers chairpersons seems to have some serious beef with KIF. However, as a multistakeholder network, Kictanet accomodates all. But as I have asserted previously, this forum will not be turned into a rumor-mill or hate-zone. And to Waudo I reiterate, any and I mean *any* member who tries to misuse this network while it is under my watch will face the full fury that my position allows. I believe in authority with responsibility and will take full responsibility for my words and actions, so help me God... To certain members of this list who are either not resident or have not been resident in this country for some time, please be cautious with your statements, sometimes you might be bashing someone who has made huge sacrifice to serve this nation's ICT. Brian Sent from my iPhone On 13 Jul 2008, at 1:09 PM, "Bill Kagai" <[email protected]> wrote:
In only 100 words, let me say that something is giving in here. There is clearly inability by the various 'centers' in providing leadership...which is worrisome because if we 'IT Experts' cannot handle ourselves with decorum, then how can you convince your cousin in the village not to go and kill the other tribesman??
If I recall clearly, some months ago, the Computer Society (Read Waudo) had the Vice President preside over the awards occasion...and...around the same time, the engineering exhibition (Read..Kevit) also had some high level attendees. In other words, what am saying is that I saw synergy at its best and clearly none had advantage over the other. Competition and anonymous entities breed healthy working niches.
In my honest opinion, and specifically referring to Waudo, it is pessimistic when finally the genie grants you a wish, you ask the genie to kill your neighbours 98 cows so that you can both have two cows each. I think, your deliberate attempt to '%$Ā£"$Ā£' KIF is myopi c. Ask the genie to grant you 98 cows not to kill your neighbours 98 of them.
As a conclusion, I must admit that I have never received an email (and I read all my email, including spam) calling me for an AGM/ election of any of these organisations...KIF, KICTANET, Consumer Organisation (Alex) and CSK. I have attended sessions in all and some have not held elections in more than ten years. Apparently election fever does not only eat our politicians. Last time I checked, Alice was coordinating Kictanet and yesterday I learnt that there is also a chairman. Some expert also came to my office last year to discuss these structures in Kictanet and nothing ever materialised.
In the final analysis, this means that anyone can take advantage of a society that is crippled by bad governance. ICT industry reeks of it. It begins by electing officials acceptable to the players. Who is ready to offer the much needed leadership???
-- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Apartments, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1Ā°17'13.8" E - 36Ā°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke ---
On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 10:51 AM, wesley kiriinya <[email protected]
wrote: Gentlemen,
Before these so called foreigners got these positions that Kenyans would have occupied, what were Kenyans waiting for? (Honest question.)
If there is a higher appointing authority that picks these so called foreigners over Kenyans then it's them to blame (if there is a good reason).
That said, as much as free speech is appreciated, so is discretion. Sorry to say but it is embarrassing to read some of these posts.
Regards.
--- On Sun, 7/13/08, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote: From: waudo siganga <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 9:19 AM
Hi All - I am the one that asserted that Kenyan (ICT) associations should be run by Kenyans and I stand by that. It has absolutely nothing to do with racism. Every country has policies to protect its people. Even in the USA you can only stand for president if you were born American. Is that racism? Associations are at the heart of pushing for policy and it pains me to see foreigners jostling Kenyans out of the way and being the ones running up and down the Government corridors carrying "position papers".
I find it deplorable that Brian is using his position on the list to threaten to unsubscribe those who do not agree with his views and consign them to the Nyayo House dungeons. Brian you have been partisan on these issues throughout. You are issuing "apologies" to people you already sided with and they are quickly "accepting". At one time you were saying we visit KIF to see how they run meetings as though suggesting Kenyans do not know how to run meetings. Is this the Brian I knew or someone using your mail account? Tafadhali, wacha wananchi wasema hata kama uko pande ile ingine.
Waudo
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On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 11:20 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
I will arrange tohave the secretariat, which Alice heads send you copies of documents which have previously been circulated on this list to all members, and records of meetings where the issues you raise have been addressed, if there are organizations in ICT that have poor governance, those do not include KICTANET.
Brian, I have seen the IDRC sponsored institutional assessment report. I am asking if election of officers have ever been held and how were members invited to vote??. And maybe...when...is the next Kictanet election..for those who might wish to run for positions??
--- On Sun, 7/13/08, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
To certain members of this list who are either not resident or have not been resident in this country for some time, please be cautious with your statements, sometimes you might be bashing someone who has made huge sacrifice to serve this nation's ICT.
Earlier said we should not discriminate against non-Kenyans. Would you be asking that honest opinion now also be qualified and legitimized by the residency status? The Diaspora should keep off? Expanding to all society, are historical "made huge sacrifice to serve this nation" permanent tickets to never be questioned? To be rewarded generously ad infinitum? I am avoiding cheapening the discussion.
One need only look at past history and realize that a Kenyan whether resident in Kenya or not is an underdog when it comes to fairly competing against foreign entities that have the "right connections" and "right" goes beyond having "business connections". When official policy intentionally or unintentionally appears to dictate that anything Kenyan led should be relegated or ranked lower because local is not better, is the biggest single contributing factor that has led to foreign control and ownership of key sectors of the economy. One need only look at India's current economic prosperity where official policy was key in ensuring that any major player wanting to do business in India had to engage in joint ventures with local players, the benefit of that foresight can now be seen as some of these firms turn into true multinationals as a result of knowledge and technology transfer while ensuring that in the process, the wealth and long term benefits generated remained mostly in India and not in foreign coffers. As for the diaspora, they may have already decided to keep off due to the lack of incentive and a guaranteed (not preferential) level playing field , besides remittances, can anyone mention any major investment activity in a key national sector that a broad based diaspora led initiative has succeeded when competing in one's own country against foreign led entities? The answer might be found once again in official policy and approach as this brief analysis indicates, why should one invest where they are likely to get burned by playing their cards fairly and transparently when the policy makers are not willing to address key issues of legitimate investor concern? http://kenyaimagine.blogspot.com/2007/03/kimunya-attempts-to-woo-kenyan-dias... On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 11:36 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
--- On Sun, 7/13/08, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
To certain members of this list who are either not resident or have not been resident in this country for some time, please be cautious with your statements, sometimes you might be bashing someone who has made huge sacrifice to serve this nation's ICT.
Earlier said we should not discriminate against non-Kenyans. Would you be asking that honest opinion now also be qualified and legitimized by the residency status? The Diaspora should keep off?
Expanding to all society, are historical "made huge sacrifice to serve this nation" permanent tickets to never be questioned? To be rewarded generously ad infinitum? I am avoiding cheapening the discussion.
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Mike Well said. What I would like to add is that every investor in Kenya should be subjected to the same rules that a Kenyan would be subjected to in India and EEU or any other country. Additionally we should not be having foreigners attempting to shape Kenya's public policy. In fact in the US no foreign owned company is allowed anywhere near where public policy is created. Any foreign based public policy body must identify itself as such. In this case KIF would be an illegal associations because it has non Kenyan entities as its members. At the end of the day when all hell breaks loose these guys are the first ones to get airlifted by their embassies and leave Kenyans to face the music alone. We have seen it time and again all over Africa. They say: "History does not repeat itself only the folly of Kenyans does" Joe On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Mike Theuri <[email protected]> wrote:
One need only look at past history and realize that a Kenyan whether resident in Kenya or not is an underdog when it comes to fairly competing against foreign entities that have the "right connections" and "right" goes beyond having "business connections". When official policy intentionally or unintentionally appears to dictate that anything Kenyan led should be relegated or ranked lower because local is not better, is the biggest single contributing factor that has led to foreign control and ownership of key sectors of the economy.
One need only look at India's current economic prosperity where official policy was key in ensuring that any major player wanting to do business in India had to engage in joint ventures with local players, the benefit of that foresight can now be seen as some of these firms turn into true multinationals as a result of knowledge and technology transfer while ensuring that in the process, the wealth and long term benefits generated remained mostly in India and not in foreign coffers.
As for the diaspora, they may have already decided to keep off due to the lack of incentive and a guaranteed (not preferential) level playing field , besides remittances, can anyone mention any major investment activity in a key national sector that a broad based diaspora led initiative has succeeded when competing in one's own country against foreign led entities? The answer might be found once again in official policy and approach as this brief analysis indicates, why should one invest where they are likely to get burned by playing their cards fairly and transparently when the policy makers are not willing to address key issues of legitimate investor concern?
http://kenyaimagine.blogspot.com/2007/03/kimunya-attempts-to-woo-kenyan-dias...
On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 11:36 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
--- On Sun, 7/13/08, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
To certain members of this list who are either not resident or have not been resident in this country for some time, please be cautious with your statements, sometimes you might be bashing someone who has made huge sacrifice to serve this nation's ICT.
Earlier said we should not discriminate against non-Kenyans. Would you be asking that honest opinion now also be qualified and legitimized by the residency status? The Diaspora should keep off?
Expanding to all society, are historical "made huge sacrifice to serve this nation" permanent tickets to never be questioned? To be rewarded generously ad infinitum? I am avoiding cheapening the discussion.
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This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mike.theuri%40gmail.com
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-- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com
My thoughts are yet to organise themselves adequately in my head to comment on this issue, however it occurs to me that the argument that you advance Mike may inadvertently be 'an eye for an eye' sort of argument. India and the US for example can do perfectly well without investment from Kenya or Africa. in fact, i am led to wonder what the state of affairs is with regard to FDI inflows. How much of the FDI inflows in the US originate from Africa? And in Kenya, how much of the FDI inflows originate from Kenya? The social argument you advance in general (while taking exception to the racial slurs) is generally sound but does it make sense to the extent that it will put Ugali in Wanjiku's mouth (the business argument)? Zimbabwe tried to be protectionist. Outside of the external factors that have surely contributed to the hyper-inflation there, it occurs to me that the land he acquired was redistributed among his cronies and within a month (i was there), erstwhile lush fields of tobacco lay frigid. I wonder if protectionist policies would enhance our global competitiveness as a country in the larger scheme of things? or is it the hard work that people are putting into the development of the industry. Back to Marcel and Kevit, who have been unfortunately dragged into this. i have seen them putting in long, hard hours of work for the industry - on the ecommerce policy, for example. I wonder if it is fair to villify such efforts and what it says about ourselves? Sent from my BlackBerryĀ® smartphone provided by Celtel Kenya -----Original Message----- From: "Joseph Manthi" <[email protected]> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:54:42 To: <[email protected]> Cc: kictanet-lists<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Ken _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alkags%40alkags.com
Al: It is this kind of argument that is making it hard for us to get into grips with our own development. Why is it that we can not protect ours without us being considered racist or xenophobic? Is India and China considered any of this when they demand that no company that can operate in these countries without local ownership? What about S Africa? Remember EASSY? Joe On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 12:57 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
My thoughts are yet to organise themselves adequately in my head to comment on this issue, however it occurs to me that the argument that you advance Mike may inadvertently be 'an eye for an eye' sort of argument.
India and the US for example can do perfectly well without investment from Kenya or Africa. in fact, i am led to wonder what the state of affairs is with regard to FDI inflows. How much of the FDI inflows in the US originate from Africa? And in Kenya, how much of the FDI inflows originate from Kenya?
The social argument you advance in general (while taking exception to the racial slurs) is generally sound but does it make sense to the extent that it will put Ugali in Wanjiku's mouth (the business argument)?
Zimbabwe tried to be protectionist. Outside of the external factors that have surely contributed to the hyper-inflation there, it occurs to me that the land he acquired was redistributed among his cronies and within a month (i was there), erstwhile lush fields of tobacco lay frigid. I wonder if protectionist policies would enhance our global competitiveness as a country in the larger scheme of things?
or is it the hard work that people are putting into the development of the industry.
Back to Marcel and Kevit, who have been unfortunately dragged into this. i have seen them putting in long, hard hours of work for the industry - on the ecommerce policy, for example. I wonder if it is fair to villify such efforts and what it says about ourselves? Sent from my BlackBerry(R) smartphone provided by Celtel Kenya
-----Original Message----- From: "Joseph Manthi" <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:54:42 To: <[email protected]> Cc: kictanet-lists<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Ken
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-- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:57 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
I wonder if protectionist policies would enhance our global competitiveness as a country in the larger scheme of things?
Alkags, I have written too much (today), but kindly indulge me with this one last post I could not resist because it harbours on what I do for a living - information vending ;-) You know about Unilver Tea. Basic stats look like this...and another reason why you should subscribe to MediaCorp services NSE Sector Agricultural Company Unilever Tea Code UNLV Year Of 1925 Year of Listing 1972 Issued Shares 48,875,000.00 Share Float 11 All Time Low 36.00 All Time High 130.00 Market Capitalisation (Million) 2.26B Par Value *Top 10 Shareholders* *Name* *%* Shareholder1 Brooke Bond Group Ltd. - 88.23 Shareholder2 Board of Trustees Of NSSF 2.94 Shareholder3 KCB Staff Pension 0.52 Shareholder4 UAP Provincial Insurance 0.33 Shareholder5 Old mutual life Ass 0.29 Shareholder6 BBK Nominees 0.27 Shareholder7 Co-op Bank Kenya 0.22 Shareholder8 BBK Nominees 0.22 Shareholder9 xxxx Shareholder10 Ins Co. of East Africa 0.17 *Top10Total Shares * * * *93.37* * * *Profit Before Tax (Year)* *[Million]* *Profit After Tax (Year)* *[Million]* 2000 410.00 2000 450.00 2001 420.00 2001 220.00 2002 415.00 2002 130.00 2003 400.00 2003 60.00 2004 450.00 2004 370.00 2005 100.00 2005 70.00 2006 100.00 2006 60.00 2007 2007 *Earning Per Share * *Kshs* *Dividend PayOut* *Kshs* 2000 9.20 2000 6.00 2001 4.60 2001 2.00 2002 2.50 2002 2.50 2003 1.30 2003 6.00 2004 7.40 2004 8.00 2005 1.40 2005 2.00 2006 1.10 2006 2.00 2007 2007 P/E Ratio Bankers Barclay bank of Kenya,Citibank NA,Cooperative Bank Registrars Cooperative Bank Registrars My point Foreigners hold 88% of the company and thus in a position to make board decisions regardless of the African investors thinking after all..they holding only 12%. Some investors bought into this company at more than kshs 100 and when it ceased trading, shares were moving in the 40-45 range. The shares will be called back because the foreigners agenda is different and there intention is not to make money for the local investors. [Country of origin and Fair trade issues]. The local investors including NSSF, KCB pensioners and many more Wanjikus have been screwed. RVR is coming next. Joe is therefore really not far from the point...if Unilever lesson is anything to go by. We need a unified approach ...If you want to do business in Kenya...get Kenyan partner...is simply not enough... We need to get Kenyans in decision making positions also. PS. Regarding Flo's kind request to facilitate... Ownership of the process is what is critical. Locals should not only drive but own and ultimately be responsible for the direction they take. You have done well...but maybe...as Frank Sinatra would sing...its time for MY WAY. Ciao, Bill
Bill, V good points.let me ask you how much of the 280 billion that was oversubscribed for Safaricom was local, Kenyan money? Can Kenyans afford to invest (and therefore control) businesses both in and out of Kenya? Yes! But do they? No! Everybody goes running after the Safaricoms when the "outsiders" are investing (and taking bigger risk) in tomorrows Unilever. I know of deals that are being closed right now worth several million dollars with "foreign" investors for businesss that have been round the block locally several times and couldn't even get the time of day from some of our local financiers. I say its time for us to put *our* money where our mouth is. Al's point is unshakeable, if you own it you control it. Let us find out ways in which we can own without undermining or destroying our markets (e.g Mugabe) Brian Sent from my iPhone On 14 Jul 2008, at 8:36 PM, "Bill Kagai" <[email protected]> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:57 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: I wonder if protectionist policies would enhance our global competitiveness as a country in the larger scheme of things?
Alkags, I have written too much (today), but kindly indulge me with this one last post I could not resist because it harbours on what I do for a living - information vending ;-)
You know about Unilver Tea. Basic stats look like this...and another reason why you should subscribe to MediaCorp services
NSE Sector
Agricultural
Company
Unilever Tea
Code
UNLV
Year Of
1925
Year of Listing
1972
Issued Shares
48,875,000.00
Share Float
11
All Time Low
36.00
All Time High
130.00
Market Capitalisation (Million)
2.26B
Par Value
Top 10 Shareholders
Name
%
Shareholder1
Brooke Bond Group Ltd. -
88.23
Shareholder2
Board of Trustees Of NSSF
2.94
Shareholder3
KCB Staff Pension
0.52
Shareholder4
UAP Provincial Insurance
0.33
Shareholder5
Old mutual life Ass
0.29
Shareholder6
BBK Nominees
0.27
Shareholder7
Co-op Bank Kenya
0.22
Shareholder8
BBK Nominees
0.22
Shareholder9
xxxx
Shareholder10
Ins Co. of East Africa
0.17
Top10Total Shares
93.37
Profit Before Tax (Year)
[Million]
Profit After Tax (Year)
[Million]
2000
410.00
2000
450.00
2001
420.00
2001
220.00
2002
415.00
2002
130.00
2003
400.00
2003
60.00
2004
450.00
2004
370.00
2005
100.00
2005
70.00
2006
100.00
2006
60.00
2007
2007
Earning Per Share
Kshs
Dividend PayOut
Kshs
2000
9.20
2000
6.00
2001
4.60
2001
2.00
2002
2.50
2002
2.50
2003
1.30
2003
6.00
2004
7.40
2004
8.00
2005
1.40
2005
2.00
2006
1.10
2006
2.00
2007
2007
P/E Ratio
Bankers
Barclay bank of Kenya,Citibank NA,Cooperative Bank
Registrars
Cooperative Bank Registrars
My point Foreigners hold 88% of the company and thus in a position to make board decisions regardless of the African investors thinking after all..they holding only 12%. Some investors bought into this company at more than kshs 100 and when it ceased trading, shares were moving in the 40-45 range. The shares will be called back because the foreigners agenda is different and there intention is not to make money for the local investors. [Country of origin and Fair trade issues]. The local investors including NSSF, KCB pensioners and many more Wanjikus have been screwed.
RVR is coming next.
Joe is therefore really not far from the point...if Unilever lesson is anything to go by. We need a unified approach ...If you want to do business in Kenya...get Kenyan partner...is simply not enough...
We need to get Kenyans in decision making positions also.
PS. Regarding Flo's kind request to facilitate... Ownership of the process is what is critical. Locals should not only drive but own and ultimately be responsible for the direction they take. You have done well...but maybe...as Frank Sinatra would sing...its time for MY WAY.
Ciao, Bill _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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Brian Now you are spreading rumours, innuendos, and xenophobia. This is an old story and I think things have either changed or are going to change soon. Every time an African raises these things about ownership of African resources the old donkey is trotted out - see Zimbabwe, Libya, Somalia etc etc etc When is this going to change? Only when our best and brightest start behaving like they would like our scant resources to be owned by us. Joe On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
Bill,
V good points.let me ask you how much of the 280 billion that was oversubscribed for Safaricom was local, Kenyan money? Can Kenyans afford to invest (and therefore control) businesses both in and out of Kenya? Yes! But do they? No!
Everybody goes running after the Safaricoms when the "outsiders" are investing (and taking bigger risk) in tomorrows Unilever.
I know of deals that are being closed right now worth several million dollars with "foreign" investors for businesss that have been round the block locally several times and couldn't even get the time of day from some of our local financiers.
I say its time for us to put *our* money where our mouth is.
Al's point is unshakeable, if you own it you control it. Let us find out ways in which we can own without undermining or destroying our markets (e.g Mugabe)
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Jul 2008, at 8:36 PM, "Bill Kagai" <[email protected]> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:57 PM, < <[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
I wonder if protectionist policies would enhance our global competitiveness as a country in the larger scheme of things?
Alkags, I have written too much (today), but kindly indulge me with this one last post I could not resist because it harbours on what I do for a living - information vending ;-)
You know about Unilver Tea. Basic stats look like this...and another reason why you should subscribe to MediaCorp services
NSE Sector
Agricultural
Company
Unilever Tea
Code
UNLV
Year Of
1925
Year of Listing
1972
Issued Shares
48,875,000.00
Share Float
11
All Time Low
36.00
All Time High
130.00
Market Capitalisation (Million)
2.26B
Par Value
*Top 10 Shareholders*
*Name*
*%*
Shareholder1
Brooke Bond Group Ltd. -
88.23
Shareholder2
Board of Trustees Of NSSF
2.94
Shareholder3
KCB Staff Pension
0.52
Shareholder4
UAP Provincial Insurance
0.33
Shareholder5
Old mutual life Ass
0.29
Shareholder6
BBK Nominees
0.27
Shareholder7
Co-op Bank Kenya
0.22
Shareholder8
BBK Nominees
0.22
Shareholder9
xxxx
Shareholder10
Ins Co. of East Africa
0.17
*Top10Total Shares *
* *
*93.37*
* *
*Profit Before Tax (Year)*
*[Million]*
*Profit After Tax (Year)*
*[Million]*
2000
410.00
2000
450.00
2001
420.00
2001
220.00
2002
415.00
2002
130.00
2003
400.00
2003
60.00
2004
450.00
2004
370.00
2005
100.00
2005
70.00
2006
100.00
2006
60.00
2007
2007
*Earning Per Share *
*Kshs*
*Dividend PayOut*
*Kshs*
2000
9.20
2000
6.00
2001
4.60
2001
2.00
2002
2.50
2002
2.50
2003
1.30
2003
6.00
2004
7.40
2004
8.00
2005
1.40
2005
2.00
2006
1.10
2006
2.00
2007
2007
P/E Ratio
Bankers
Barclay bank of Kenya,Citibank NA,Cooperative Bank
Registrars
Cooperative Bank Registrars
My point Foreigners hold 88% of the company and thus in a position to make board decisions regardless of the African investors thinking after all..they holding only 12%. Some investors bought into this company at more than kshs 100 and when it ceased trading, shares were moving in the 40-45 range. The shares will be called back because the foreigners agenda is different and there intention is not to make money for the local investors. [Country of origin and Fair trade issues]. The local investors including NSSF, KCB pensioners and many more Wanjikus have been screwed.
RVR is coming next.
Joe is therefore really not far from the point...if Unilever lesson is anything to go by. We need a unified approach ...If you want to do business in Kenya...get Kenyan partner...is simply not enough...
We need to get Kenyans in decision making positions also.
PS. Regarding Flo's kind request to facilitate... Ownership of the process is what is critical. Locals should not only drive but own and ultimately be responsible for the direction they take. You have done well...but maybe...as Frank Sinatra would sing...its time for MY WAY.
Ciao, Bill
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-- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com
Hi Joe, Take a look at this: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com/2008/06/tbl-mirror-fund-acumen-fund-in.html Yes, both funds are resident in Kenya and even have Kenyan employees, but 100% of the money is from outside (Netherlands for TBL and USA for Acumen). I was involved in setting up TBL - http://www.tblmirrorfund.com/Background.htm - so I know, and right now several other deals are close to signing. Most of the portfolio copmanies or those that are in the dealflow pipelines of these funds have been running around trying to get other Kenyans to *believe* in them and then invest and have sighed with relief when these "foreign" funds come knocking. When these guys are making big news with their IPO and incredible exits in another 5-6 years time will Kenyans complain? Yes! Let's face it - deep down we don't have faith in our own products/content/fellow-citizens - will policy fix that? Brian On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Joseph Manthi <[email protected]> wrote:
Brian Now you are spreading rumours, innuendos, and xenophobia. This is an old story and I think things have either changed or are going to change soon.
Every time an African raises these things about ownership of African resources the old donkey is trotted out - see Zimbabwe, Libya, Somalia etc etc etc
When is this going to change? Only when our best and brightest start behaving like they would like our scant resources to be owned by us.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
Bill,
V good points.let me ask you how much of the 280 billion that was oversubscribed for Safaricom was local, Kenyan money? Can Kenyans afford to invest (and therefore control) businesses both in and out of Kenya? Yes! But do they? No!
Everybody goes running after the Safaricoms when the "outsiders" are investing (and taking bigger risk) in tomorrows Unilever.
I know of deals that are being closed right now worth several million dollars with "foreign" investors for businesss that have been round the block locally several times and couldn't even get the time of day from some of our local financiers.
I say its time for us to put *our* money where our mouth is.
Al's point is unshakeable, if you own it you control it. Let us find out ways in which we can own without undermining or destroying our markets (e.g Mugabe)
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Jul 2008, at 8:36 PM, "Bill Kagai" <[email protected]> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:57 PM, < <[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
I wonder if protectionist policies would enhance our global competitiveness as a country in the larger scheme of things?
Alkags, I have written too much (today), but kindly indulge me with this one last post I could not resist because it harbours on what I do for a living - information vending ;-)
You know about Unilver Tea. Basic stats look like this...and another reason why you should subscribe to MediaCorp services
NSE Sector
Agricultural
Company
Unilever Tea
Code
UNLV
Year Of
1925
Year of Listing
1972
Issued Shares
48,875,000.00
Share Float
11
All Time Low
36.00
All Time High
130.00
Market Capitalisation (Million)
2.26B
Par Value
*Top 10 Shareholders*
*Name*
*%*
Shareholder1
Brooke Bond Group Ltd. -
88.23
Shareholder2
Board of Trustees Of NSSF
2.94
Shareholder3
KCB Staff Pension
0.52
Shareholder4
UAP Provincial Insurance
0.33
Shareholder5
Old mutual life Ass
0.29
Shareholder6
BBK Nominees
0.27
Shareholder7
Co-op Bank Kenya
0.22
Shareholder8
BBK Nominees
0.22
Shareholder9
xxxx
Shareholder10
Ins Co. of East Africa
0.17
*Top10Total Shares *
* *
*93.37*
* *
*Profit Before Tax (Year)*
*[Million]*
*Profit After Tax (Year)*
*[Million]*
2000
410.00
2000
450.00
2001
420.00
2001
220.00
2002
415.00
2002
130.00
2003
400.00
2003
60.00
2004
450.00
2004
370.00
2005
100.00
2005
70.00
2006
100.00
2006
60.00
2007
2007
*Earning Per Share *
*Kshs*
*Dividend PayOut*
*Kshs*
2000
9.20
2000
6.00
2001
4.60
2001
2.00
2002
2.50
2002
2.50
2003
1.30
2003
6.00
2004
7.40
2004
8.00
2005
1.40
2005
2.00
2006
1.10
2006
2.00
2007
2007
P/E Ratio
Bankers
Barclay bank of Kenya,Citibank NA,Cooperative Bank
Registrars
Cooperative Bank Registrars
My point Foreigners hold 88% of the company and thus in a position to make board decisions regardless of the African investors thinking after all..they holding only 12%. Some investors bought into this company at more than kshs 100 and when it ceased trading, shares were moving in the 40-45 range. The shares will be called back because the foreigners agenda is different and there intention is not to make money for the local investors. [Country of origin and Fair trade issues]. The local investors including NSSF, KCB pensioners and many more Wanjikus have been screwed.
RVR is coming next.
Joe is therefore really not far from the point...if Unilever lesson is anything to go by. We need a unified approach ...If you want to do business in Kenya...get Kenyan partner...is simply not enough...
We need to get Kenyans in decision making positions also.
PS. Regarding Flo's kind request to facilitate... Ownership of the process is what is critical. Locals should not only drive but own and ultimately be responsible for the direction they take. You have done well...but maybe...as Frank Sinatra would sing...its time for MY WAY.
Ciao, Bill
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-- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: [email protected] cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
Policy would be a starting point in helping remove or reduce the hurdles that numerous Kenyan investors and entreprenuers appear to be facing, I'm not sure the below response made it to the list but what Frank mentions below is worth addressing and it is a good thing that it will be: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: <[email protected]> Date: Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:11 AM [...] The buying of assets in Kenya is good. We were proposing that we remove the asset out of the discussion but if politics will not allow us to do that, we may want to concentrate on more stable investments. I made a proposal regarding the issue surrounding current legislation on ICT as the chair of KAIF. I even pulled in the concerned authorities. Maybe you can help send the message that we are more than ready for participation in not only ICT, but also in real investment. We were rebuffed since we did not fit into the slot we were supposed to fit into. I believe the key thing is changing the mind set/approach. Kenyans abroad are repelled by institutions that tell them what to do, i.e. the seller telling the customer what they need. If the mindset could be changed where Kenyans overseas can determine what they need (basic economics where the demands determines the supply), then we would see a very healthy and consistent flow of ideas and remittances. I have been involved in leadership abroad and have a clue what people want. [...] Frank Mwaniki On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 7:49 AM, Brian Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Joe,
Take a look at this: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com/2008/06/tbl-mirror-fund-acumen-fund-in.html
Yes, both funds are resident in Kenya and even have Kenyan employees, but 100% of the money is from outside (Netherlands for TBL and USA for Acumen).
I was involved in setting up TBL - http://www.tblmirrorfund.com/Background.htm - so I know, and right now several other deals are close to signing.
Most of the portfolio copmanies or those that are in the dealflow pipelines of these funds have been running around trying to get other Kenyans to *believe* in them and then invest and have sighed with relief when these "foreign" funds come knocking.
When these guys are making big news with their IPO and incredible exits in another 5-6 years time will Kenyans complain? Yes!
Let's face it - deep down we don't have faith in our own products/content/fellow-citizens - will policy fix that?
Brian
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Joseph Manthi <[email protected]> wrote:
Brian Now you are spreading rumours, innuendos, and xenophobia. This is an old story and I think things have either changed or are going to change soon.
Every time an African raises these things about ownership of African resources the old donkey is trotted out - see Zimbabwe, Libya, Somalia etc etc etc
When is this going to change? Only when our best and brightest start behaving like they would like our scant resources to be owned by us.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
Bill,
V good points.let me ask you how much of the 280 billion that was oversubscribed for Safaricom was local, Kenyan money? Can Kenyans afford to invest (and therefore control) businesses both in and out of Kenya? Yes! But do they? No!
Everybody goes running after the Safaricoms when the "outsiders" are investing (and taking bigger risk) in tomorrows Unilever.
I know of deals that are being closed right now worth several million dollars with "foreign" investors for businesss that have been round the block locally several times and couldn't even get the time of day from some of our local financiers.
I say its time for us to put *our* money where our mouth is.
Al's point is unshakeable, if you own it you control it. Let us find out ways in which we can own without undermining or destroying our markets (e.g Mugabe)
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Jul 2008, at 8:36 PM, "Bill Kagai" <[email protected]> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:57 PM, < <[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
I wonder if protectionist policies would enhance our global competitiveness as a country in the larger scheme of things?
Alkags, I have written too much (today), but kindly indulge me with this one last post I could not resist because it harbours on what I do for a living - information vending ;-)
You know about Unilver Tea. Basic stats look like this...and another reason why you should subscribe to MediaCorp services
NSE Sector
Agricultural
Company
Unilever Tea
Code
UNLV
Year Of
1925
Year of Listing
1972
Issued Shares
48,875,000.00
Share Float
11
All Time Low
36.00
All Time High
130.00
Market Capitalisation (Million)
2.26B
Par Value
*Top 10 Shareholders*
*Name*
*%*
Shareholder1
Brooke Bond Group Ltd. -
88.23
Shareholder2
Board of Trustees Of NSSF
2.94
Shareholder3
KCB Staff Pension
0.52
Shareholder4
UAP Provincial Insurance
0.33
Shareholder5
Old mutual life Ass
0.29
Shareholder6
BBK Nominees
0.27
Shareholder7
Co-op Bank Kenya
0.22
Shareholder8
BBK Nominees
0.22
Shareholder9
xxxx
Shareholder10
Ins Co. of East Africa
0.17
*Top10Total Shares *
* *
*93.37*
* *
*Profit Before Tax (Year)*
*[Million]*
*Profit After Tax (Year)*
*[Million]*
2000
410.00
2000
450.00
2001
420.00
2001
220.00
2002
415.00
2002
130.00
2003
400.00
2003
60.00
2004
450.00
2004
370.00
2005
100.00
2005
70.00
2006
100.00
2006
60.00
2007
2007
*Earning Per Share *
*Kshs*
*Dividend PayOut*
*Kshs*
2000
9.20
2000
6.00
2001
4.60
2001
2.00
2002
2.50
2002
2.50
2003
1.30
2003
6.00
2004
7.40
2004
8.00
2005
1.40
2005
2.00
2006
1.10
2006
2.00
2007
2007
P/E Ratio
Bankers
Barclay bank of Kenya,Citibank NA,Cooperative Bank
Registrars
Cooperative Bank Registrars
My point Foreigners hold 88% of the company and thus in a position to make board decisions regardless of the African investors thinking after all..they holding only 12%. Some investors bought into this company at more than kshs 100 and when it ceased trading, shares were moving in the 40-45 range. The shares will be called back because the foreigners agenda is different and there intention is not to make money for the local investors. [Country of origin and Fair trade issues]. The local investors including NSSF, KCB pensioners and many more Wanjikus have been screwed.
RVR is coming next.
Joe is therefore really not far from the point...if Unilever lesson is anything to go by. We need a unified approach ...If you want to do business in Kenya...get Kenyan partner...is simply not enough...
We need to get Kenyans in decision making positions also.
PS. Regarding Flo's kind request to facilitate... Ownership of the process is what is critical. Locals should not only drive but own and ultimately be responsible for the direction they take. You have done well...but maybe...as Frank Sinatra would sing...its time for MY WAY.
Ciao, Bill
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-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: [email protected] cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
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Is not odd? That on one hand the ICT Board is tirelessly marketing Kenya as competitive investment destination to potential foreigner investors "to be top 10 hub" while on the other hand our very own nationals abroad have difficulties investing in Kenya? Right thinking persons would seriously consider removal of all "investinecks" impediments as priority no 0 ( i.e. history, unheard of, ever again?). Daktari some radical policy adjustments are needed here to catalyse and attract all ICT FDIs out there? --- On Tue, 7/15/08, Mike Theuri <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Mike Theuri <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Ken To: [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 12:38 PM Policy would be a starting point in helping remove or reduce the hurdles that numerous Kenyan investors and entreprenuers appear to be facing, I'm not sure the below response made it to the list but what Frank mentions below is worth addressing and it is a good thing that it will be:
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: <[email protected]> Date: Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:11 AM
[...]
The buying of assets in Kenya is good. We were proposing that we remove the asset out of the discussion but if politics will not allow us to do that, we may want to concentrate on more stable investments.
I made a proposal regarding the issue surrounding current legislation on ICT as the chair of KAIF. I even pulled in the concerned authorities. Maybe you can help send the message that we are more than ready for participation in not only ICT, but also in real investment. We were rebuffed since we did not fit into the slot we were supposed to fit into.
I believe the key thing is changing the mind set/approach. Kenyans abroad are repelled by institutions that tell them what to do, i.e. the seller telling the customer what they need. If the mindset could be changed where Kenyans overseas can determine what they need (basic economics where the demands determines the supply), then we would see a very healthy and consistent flow of ideas and remittances. I have been involved in leadership abroad and have a clue what people want.
[...]
Frank Mwaniki
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 7:49 AM, Brian Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Joe,
Take a look at this:
http://mashilingi.blogspot.com/2008/06/tbl-mirror-fund-acumen-fund-in.html
Yes, both funds are resident in Kenya and even have
100% of the money is from outside (Netherlands for TBL and USA for Acumen).
I was involved in setting up TBL - http://www.tblmirrorfund.com/Background.htm - so I know, and right now several other deals are close to signing.
Most of the portfolio copmanies or those that are in
of these funds have been running around trying to get other Kenyans to *believe* in them and then invest and have sighed with relief when these "foreign" funds come knocking.
When these guys are making big news with their IPO and incredible exits in another 5-6 years time will Kenyans complain? Yes!
Let's face it - deep down we don't have faith in our own products/content/fellow-citizens - will policy fix
Kenyan employees, but the dealflow pipelines that?
Brian
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Joseph Manthi
<[email protected]> wrote:
Brian Now you are spreading rumours, innuendos, and
story and I think things have either changed or are going to change soon.
Every time an African raises these things about ownership of African resources the old donkey is trotted out - see Zimbabwe, Libya, Somalia etc etc etc
When is this going to change? Only when our best and brightest start behaving like they would like our scant resources to be owned by us.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
Bill,
V good points.let me ask you how much of the 280 billion that was oversubscribed for Safaricom was local, Kenyan money? Can Kenyans afford to invest (and therefore control) businesses both in and out of Kenya? Yes! But do they? No!
Everybody goes running after the Safaricoms when the "outsiders" are investing (and taking bigger risk) in tomorrows Unilever.
I know of deals that are being closed right now worth several million dollars with "foreign" investors for businesss that have been round the block locally several times and couldn't even get the time of day from some of our local financiers.
I say its time for us to put *our* money where our mouth is.
Al's point is unshakeable, if you own it you control it. Let us find out ways in which we can own without undermining or destroying our markets (e.g Mugabe)
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Jul 2008, at 8:36 PM, "Bill Kagai" <[email protected]> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:57 PM, < <[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
I wonder if protectionist policies would enhance our global competitiveness as a country in the larger scheme of things?
Alkags, I have written too much (today), but kindly indulge me with this one last post I could not resist because it harbours on what I do for a living - information vending ;-)
You know about Unilver Tea. Basic stats look
reason why you should subscribe to MediaCorp services
NSE Sector
Agricultural
Company
Unilever Tea
Code
UNLV
Year Of
1925
Year of Listing
1972
Issued Shares
48,875,000.00
Share Float
11
All Time Low
36.00
All Time High
130.00
Market Capitalisation (Million)
2.26B
Par Value
*Top 10 Shareholders*
*Name*
*%*
Shareholder1
Brooke Bond Group Ltd. -
88.23
Shareholder2
Board of Trustees Of NSSF
2.94
Shareholder3
KCB Staff Pension
0.52
Shareholder4
UAP Provincial Insurance
0.33
Shareholder5
Old mutual life Ass
0.29
Shareholder6
BBK Nominees
0.27
Shareholder7
Co-op Bank Kenya
0.22
Shareholder8
BBK Nominees
0.22
Shareholder9
xxxx
Shareholder10
Ins Co. of East Africa
0.17
*Top10Total Shares *
* *
*93.37*
* *
*Profit Before Tax (Year)*
*[Million]*
*Profit After Tax (Year)*
*[Million]*
2000
410.00
2000
450.00
2001
420.00
2001
220.00
2002
415.00
2002
130.00
2003
400.00
2003
60.00
2004
450.00
2004
370.00
2005
100.00
2005
70.00
2006
100.00
2006
60.00
2007
2007
*Earning Per Share *
*Kshs*
*Dividend PayOut*
*Kshs*
2000
9.20
2000
6.00
2001
4.60
2001
2.00
2002
2.50
2002
2.50
2003
1.30
2003
6.00
2004
7.40
2004
8.00
2005
1.40
2005
2.00
2006
1.10
2006
2.00
2007
2007
P/E Ratio
Bankers
Barclay bank of Kenya,Citibank NA,Cooperative Bank
Registrars
Cooperative Bank Registrars
My point Foreigners hold 88% of the company and thus in a position to make board decisions regardless of the African investors
holding only 12%. Some investors bought into
100 and when it ceased trading, shares were moving in the 40-45 range. The shares will be called back because the foreigners agenda is different and there intention is not to make money for the local investors. [Country of origin and Fair trade issues]. The local investors including NSSF, KCB pensioners and many more Wanjikus have been screwed.
RVR is coming next.
Joe is therefore really not far from the
anything to go by. We need a unified approach ...If you want to do business in Kenya...get Kenyan partner...is simply not enough...
We need to get Kenyans in decision making
xenophobia. This is an old like this...and another thinking after all..they this company at more than kshs point...if Unilever lesson is positions also.
PS. Regarding Flo's kind request to
facilitate...
Ownership of the process is what is critical. Locals should not only drive but own and ultimately be responsible for the direction they take. You have done well...but maybe...as Frank Sinatra would sing...its time for MY WAY.
Ciao, Bill
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-- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: [email protected] cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
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Hey Bill - I have to agree with everything you say in this mail. Brilliant stuff! Kenyans need to be promoted into all sorts of leadership positions. Secondly, the meeting being called is a good idea but it must be by and for KENYANS. We got to start believing in ourselves. If this meeting is organized with participation of all and with the small matter of involving only KENYANS taken into account, then I will definitely attend. I also agree with Bw. Manthi that Flo, though being the nice personality she is, should not chair the meeting as there are many qualified KENYANS. About the other mail promoting me to the honourable position of goat herder I have to disappoint you since I have been goat-herding for a number of years now. Everyone who knows me well knows that whenever I get a chance I am always upcountry in Mukangu village, Kakamega. This in addition to my other work as WITSA Director and Vice President (feel free to call me Mr Vice President), still serving my term on ICANN Nom-Com, on the Board of IFIP, Co-Chair of WITFOR busy preparing the next meeting in Vietnam 2009, Board Member at the ICC BASIS in Paris, etc. In WITSA I have to serve until after the 2012 World IT Congress in Canada - and that is renewable! You see, rearing goats does not exclude one from being busy. We need to meet over tea Bill, preferably in the village. Long live KENYA, Waudo On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:36:45 +0300, "Bill Kagai" <[email protected]> sa id: On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:57 PM, <[1][email protected]> wrote: I wonder if protectionist policies would enhance our global competitiveness as a country in the larger scheme of things? Alkags, I have written too much (today), but kindly indulge me with this one last post I could not resist because it harbours on what I do for a living - information vending ;-) You know about Unilver Tea. Basic stats look like this...and another reason why you should subscribe to MediaCorp services NSE Sector Agricultural Company Unilever Tea Code UNLV Year Of 1925 Year of Listing 1972 Issued Shares 48,875,000.00 Share Float 11 All Time Low 36.00 All Time High 130.00 Market Capitalisation (Million) 2.26B Par Value Top 10 Shareholders Name % Shareholder1 Brooke Bond Group Ltd. - 88.23 Shareholder2 Board of Trustees Of NSSF 2.94 Shareholder3 KCB Staff Pension 0.52 Shareholder4 UAP Provincial Insurance 0.33 Shareholder5 Old mutual life Ass 0.29 Shareholder6 BBK Nominees 0.27 Shareholder7 Co-op Bank Kenya 0.22 Shareholder8 BBK Nominees 0.22 Shareholder9 xxxx Shareholder10 Ins Co. of East Africa 0.17 Top10Total Shares 93.37 Profit Before Tax (Year) [Million] Profit After Tax (Year) [Million] 2000 410.00 2000 450.00 2001 420.00 2001 220.00 2002 415.00 2002 130.00 2003 400.00 2003 60.00 2004 450.00 2004 370.00 2005 100.00 2005 70.00 2006 100.00 2006 60.00 2007 2007 Earning Per Share Kshs Dividend PayOut Kshs 2000 9.20 2000 6.00 2001 4.60 2001 2.00 2002 2.50 2002 2.50 2003 1.30 2003 6.00 2004 7.40 2004 8.00 2005 1.40 2005 2.00 2006 1.10 2006 2.00 2007 2007 P/E Ratio Bankers Barclay bank of Kenya,Citibank NA,Cooperative Bank Registrars Cooperative Bank Registrars My point Foreigners hold 88% of the company and thus in a position to make board decisions regardless of the African investors thinking after all..they holding only 12%. Some investors bought into this company at more than kshs 100 and when it ceased trading, shares were moving in the 40-45 range. The shares will be called back because the foreigners agenda is different and there intention is not to make money for the local investors. [Country of origin and Fair trade issues]. The local investors including NSSF, KCB pensioners and many more Wanjikus have been screwed. RVR is coming next. Joe is therefore really not far from the point...if Unilever lesson is anything to go by. We need a unified approach ...If you want to do business in Kenya...get Kenyan partner...is simply not enough... We need to get Kenyans in decision making positions also. PS. Regarding Flo's kind request to facilitate... Ownership of the process is what is critical. Locals should not only drive but own and ultimately be responsible for the direction they take. You have done well...but maybe...as Frank Sinatra would sing...its time for MY WAY. Ciao, Bill References 1. mailto:[email protected] People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
Hi Al Kags. I suppose you are a KENYAN like me. Let me ask you a question, albeit hypothetical. Suppose I somehow developed a keen interest in the ICT situation in, let's say, Holland (a suspicious situation for a Nyauthi already since no-one can work out my motivation). Suppose I wrote a wonderful paper on, let's say, ecommerce in Holland and wanted to hand it, to the Dutch Government. I approach the Dutch Embassy in Nairobi and explain to them my story - the ICT Policy in Holland is in a mess and I have the solution which I weant to place before the Dutch minister responsible or the Parliament. Will I get the visa??? Will I be able to pass those nasty boys at Schipol immigration with my story? I would be surprised to get "Yes" answers. KENYANS must control their ICT Policy process and not outsource it. Waudo On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:57:23 +0000, [email protected] said:
My thoughts are yet to organise themselves adequately in my head to comment on this issue, however it occurs to me that the argument that you advance Mike may inadvertently be 'an eye for an eye' sort of argument.
India and the US for example can do perfectly well without investment from Kenya or Africa. in fact, i am led to wonder what the state of affairs is with regard to FDI inflows. How much of the FDI inflows in the US originate from Africa? And in Kenya, how much of the FDI inflows originate from Kenya?
The social argument you advance in general (while taking exception to the racial slurs) is generally sound but does it make sense to the extent that it will put Ugali in Wanjiku's mouth (the business argument)?
Zimbabwe tried to be protectionist. Outside of the external factors that have surely contributed to the hyper-inflation there, it occurs to me that the land he acquired was redistributed among his cronies and within a month (i was there), erstwhile lush fields of tobacco lay frigid. I wonder if protectionist policies would enhance our global competitiveness as a country in the larger scheme of things?
or is it the hard work that people are putting into the development of the industry.
Back to Marcel and Kevit, who have been unfortunately dragged into this. i have seen them putting in long, hard hours of work for the industry - on the ecommerce policy, for example. I wonder if it is fair to villify such efforts and what it says about ourselves? Sent from my BlackBerryĀ® smartphone provided by Celtel Kenya
-----Original Message----- From: "Joseph Manthi" <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:54:42 To: <[email protected]> Cc: kictanet-lists<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Ken
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This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.c... People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
Well put I don't know why we feel we have to kowtow to these foreigners on things that are as important ad life and death. Call my writing crude if you may but what I am saying is something that needs to be said. Joe Joseph Manthi CEO, MEO Ltd T:603 320 2924 F:315 320 2920 On Jul 14, 2008, at 4:18 PM, "waudo siganga" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Al Kags. I suppose you are a KENYAN like me. Let me ask you a question, albeit hypothetical. Suppose I somehow developed a keen interest in the ICT situation in, let's say, Holland (a suspicious situation for a Nyauthi already since no-one can work out my motivation). Suppose I wrote a wonderful paper on, let's say, ecommerce in Holland and wanted to hand it, to the Dutch Government. I approach the Dutch Embassy in Nairobi and explain to them my story - the ICT Policy in Holland is in a mess and I have the solution which I weant to place before the Dutch minister responsible or the Parliament. Will I get the visa??? Will I be able to pass those nasty boys at Schipol immigration with my story? I would be surprised to get "Yes" answers.
KENYANS must control their ICT Policy process and not outsource it.
Waudo
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:57:23 +0000, [email protected] said:
My thoughts are yet to organise themselves adequately in my head to comment on this issue, however it occurs to me that the argument that you advance Mike may inadvertently be 'an eye for an eye' sort of argument.
India and the US for example can do perfectly well without investment from Kenya or Africa. in fact, i am led to wonder what the state of affairs is with regard to FDI inflows. How much of the FDI inflows in the US originate from Africa? And in Kenya, how much of the FDI inflows originate from Kenya?
The social argument you advance in general (while taking exception to the racial slurs) is generally sound but does it make sense to the extent that it will put Ugali in Wanjiku's mouth (the business argument)?
Zimbabwe tried to be protectionist. Outside of the external factors that have surely contributed to the hyper-inflation there, it occurs to me that the land he acquired was redistributed among his cronies and within a month (i was there), erstwhile lush fields of tobacco lay frigid. I wonder if protectionist policies would enhance our global competitiveness as a country in the larger scheme of things?
or is it the hard work that people are putting into the development of the industry.
Back to Marcel and Kevit, who have been unfortunately dragged into this. i have seen them putting in long, hard hours of work for the industry - on the ecommerce policy, for example. I wonder if it is fair to villify such efforts and what it says about ourselves? Sent from my BlackBerryĀ® smartphone provided by Celtel Kenya
-----Original Message----- From: "Joseph Manthi" <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:54:42 To: <[email protected]> Cc: kictanet-lists<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Ken
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Kags, Comparing India and the US to Kenya would be rather disproportionate. However there is plenty of FDI going into the US from across the world, thanks to a weak dollar, but even when it does, its not a blank check as appears to be the case in Kenya. Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic, Dubai Ports World, China National Offshore Oil Corp and mostly recently Airbus have all found out that attempts at major takeovers or entry into sovereign sectors of the US economy will be met with swift public, political and regulatory opposition. You may not be aware but a South African company that failed to make a breakthrough in Kenya paid $5.4 billion to purchase the 2nd largest brewer in the US 6 years ago, if we're on the same continent, its not unfathomable that 10-20 years down the road with the right investment environment and framework, that Kenyan companies could be on takeover sprees, maybe not on the same scale, just as the South Africans appear to be on a new takeover mission in Kenya. However for this to happen there need to be radical changes that must be implemented through policy, regulation and the legal framework. http://money.cnn.com/2002/05/30/news/deals/miller_sab/index.htm South African invasion http://www.bdafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8707&Itemid=5822 Lack of funding leads to change of strategy http://www.bdafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8751&Itemid=5812 India and China did not magically become economic power houses overnight. They did it by supporting and investing in indigenous enterprises. Through their protectionist policies, they are the same countries that are now keeping the US economy afloat through the purchase of US treasuries when 10-15 years ago they could have been dismissed as nobodys. Malaysia while in the midst of an economic depression, quickly realised that FDI was not the sole answer but government driven investment in local enterprises to promote private enterprise and ownership was key to regaining the country's economic prosperity. The key issue is ensuring that in the process of FDI coming into a country that the country is not loosing its economic independence and sovereignty. The country needs FDI but not at the cost of relinquishing the little indigenous economic independence that is left in Kenya, the truth is, investment by Kenyans (specifically law abiding citizens) will remain in Kenya, foreign investment is not done primarily with the core objective of developing Kenya, but for the benefit of the investors, when the investors are citizens of a foreign country, it is only logical that the returns will find their way back to those foreign lands. When the investors are Kenyans whether they got there by way of a stepping stone (ie government or other) or without one, the chances of investment returns being reinvested into the country or finding their way back into the country if invested regionally will ultimately find their way back to Kenya. Charity begins at home, only Kenyans can help make Kenya competitive in the global economy, if Kenyans sit back and expect foreign investors on their behalf to develop the country and promote local entrepreneurship then we will be a very disappointed lot. The Zimbabwe type protectionist policies are not the way to go about enhancing an economy. Mugabe wanted to hang onto power, so he figured he could gain political mileage and capital by engaging in radical and populist land grabbing. The motive there was not indigenous economic development but ultimate dictatorship. There are many examples across the world both in developing and developed countries where protectionist policies have played a role in promoting indigenous ownership of enterprises, Zimbabwe just happens not be a good example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform_in_Zimbabwe#Land_reform_elsewhere On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:57 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
My thoughts are yet to organise themselves adequately in my head to comment on this issue, however it occurs to me that the argument that you advance Mike may inadvertently be 'an eye for an eye' sort of argument.
India and the US for example can do perfectly well without investment from Kenya or Africa. in fact, i am led to wonder what the state of affairs is with regard to FDI inflows. How much of the FDI inflows in the US originate from Africa? And in Kenya, how much of the FDI inflows originate from Kenya?
The social argument you advance in general (while taking exception to the racial slurs) is generally sound but does it make sense to the extent that it will put Ugali in Wanjiku's mouth (the business argument)?
Zimbabwe tried to be protectionist. Outside of the external factors that have surely contributed to the hyper-inflation there, it occurs to me that the land he acquired was redistributed among his cronies and within a month (i was there), erstwhile lush fields of tobacco lay frigid. I wonder if protectionist policies would enhance our global competitiveness as a country in the larger scheme of things?
or is it the hard work that people are putting into the development of the industry.
Back to Marcel and Kevit, who have been unfortunately dragged into this. i have seen them putting in long, hard hours of work for the industry - on the ecommerce policy, for example. I wonder if it is fair to villify such efforts and what it says about ourselves? Sent from my BlackBerry(R) smartphone provided by Celtel Kenya
-----Original Message----- From: "Joseph Manthi" <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:54:42 To: <[email protected]> Cc: kictanet-lists<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Ken
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Joe, Had these rules been implemented, today we might be in a position to call Kenya "economically sovereign" but that is far from reality and unless corrective measures are undertaken rather quickly it will be too late unless the government of the day turns radical and resorts to nationalising private entities the Hugo Chavez way. However that is a mirage on the horizon, as any such attempts would likely to lead to expropriation claims in international world courts, pariah status and we would be headed the Zimbabwean way where having seven figures in one's bank account would qualify one as a poor millionaire. Friends of Kenya are most welcome to give their input and offer expertise, however, policy making ought to be led and controlled by Kenyans. Policy makers and decision makers will hopefully grasp the urgency of the need to ensure that the country's economic independence and national security is not threatened by abdicating their core duties to formulate policy that will result in greater Kenyan ownership and control of the key sectors of the economy. If it takes legislation to mandate a shift in shareholding over time eg the South African economic empowerment way, it would be worth the time, consideration and study. As you correctly point out, the US, Canada, China, Libya and many more around the world would never allow foreigners directly or indirectly by proxy to define public policy, to do so would be to deliberately disown the nation's sovereignity. Mike On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Joseph Manthi <[email protected]> wrote:
Mike Well said.
What I would like to add is that every investor in Kenya should be subjected to the same rules that a Kenyan would be subjected to in India and EEU or any other country. Additionally we should not be having foreigners attempting to shape Kenya's public policy. In fact in the US no foreign owned company is allowed anywhere near where public policy is created. Any foreign based public policy body must identify itself as such. In this case KIF would be an illegal associations because it has non Kenyan entities as its members.
At the end of the day when all hell breaks loose these guys are the first ones to get airlifted by their embassies and leave Kenyans to face the music alone. We have seen it time and again all over Africa.
They say: "History does not repeat itself only the folly of Kenyans does"
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Mike Theuri <[email protected]> wrote:
One need only look at past history and realize that a Kenyan whether resident in Kenya or not is an underdog when it comes to fairly competing against foreign entities that have the "right connections" and "right" goes beyond having "business connections". When official policy intentionally or unintentionally appears to dictate that anything Kenyan led should be relegated or ranked lower because local is not better, is the biggest single contributing factor that has led to foreign control and ownership of key sectors of the economy.
One need only look at India's current economic prosperity where official policy was key in ensuring that any major player wanting to do business in India had to engage in joint ventures with local players, the benefit of that foresight can now be seen as some of these firms turn into true multinationals as a result of knowledge and technology transfer while ensuring that in the process, the wealth and long term benefits generated remained mostly in India and not in foreign coffers.
As for the diaspora, they may have already decided to keep off due to the lack of incentive and a guaranteed (not preferential) level playing field , besides remittances, can anyone mention any major investment activity in a key national sector that a broad based diaspora led initiative has succeeded when competing in one's own country against foreign led entities? The answer might be found once again in official policy and approach as this brief analysis indicates, why should one invest where they are likely to get burned by playing their cards fairly and transparently when the policy makers are not willing to address key issues of legitimate investor concern?
http://kenyaimagine.blogspot.com/2007/03/kimunya-attempts-to-woo-kenyan-dias...
On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 11:36 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
--- On Sun, 7/13/08, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
To certain members of this list who are either not resident or have not been resident in this country for some time, please be cautious with your statements, sometimes you might be bashing someone who has made huge sacrifice to serve this nation's ICT.
Earlier said we should not discriminate against non-Kenyans. Would you be asking that honest opinion now also be qualified and legitimized by the residency status? The Diaspora should keep off?
Expanding to all society, are historical "made huge sacrifice to serve this nation" permanent tickets to never be questioned? To be rewarded generously ad infinitum? I am avoiding cheapening the discussion.
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-- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com
Mike So the question of the day is this? Where do we go from here? Look at what foreign companies are doing all over Africa while we are napping - especially Indian and Middle Eastern ones? If I may be rhetorical - Is it a well established fact that we cannot find Kenyan - I mean indigenous Kenyans - MDs of Celtel, Safaricom, KDN, Orange etc? Is that a fact? All Kenyan members of this list would like a concrete resolution to this - if I may be bold enough to say this. Thanks, Joe On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 6:39 PM, Mike Theuri <[email protected]> wrote:
Joe,
Had these rules been implemented, today we might be in a position to call Kenya "economically sovereign" but that is far from reality and unless corrective measures are undertaken rather quickly it will be too late unless the government of the day turns radical and resorts to nationalising private entities the Hugo Chavez way. However that is a mirage on the horizon, as any such attempts would likely to lead to expropriation claims in international world courts, pariah status and we would be headed the Zimbabwean way where having seven figures in one's bank account would qualify one as a poor millionaire.
Friends of Kenya are most welcome to give their input and offer expertise, however, policy making ought to be led and controlled by Kenyans. Policy makers and decision makers will hopefully grasp the urgency of the need to ensure that the country's economic independence and national security is not threatened by abdicating their core duties to formulate policy that will result in greater Kenyan ownership and control of the key sectors of the economy. If it takes legislation to mandate a shift in shareholding over time eg the South African economic empowerment way, it would be worth the time, consideration and study. As you correctly point out, the US, Canada, China, Libya and many more around the world would never allow foreigners directly or indirectly by proxy to define public policy, to do so would be to deliberately disown the nation's sovereignity.
Mike
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Joseph Manthi <[email protected]> wrote:
Mike Well said.
What I would like to add is that every investor in Kenya should be subjected to the same rules that a Kenyan would be subjected to in India and EEU or any other country. Additionally we should not be having foreigners attempting to shape Kenya's public policy. In fact in the US no foreign owned company is allowed anywhere near where public policy is created. Any foreign based public policy body must identify itself as such. In this case KIF would be an illegal associations because it has non Kenyan entities as its members.
At the end of the day when all hell breaks loose these guys are the first ones to get airlifted by their embassies and leave Kenyans to face the music alone. We have seen it time and again all over Africa.
They say: "History does not repeat itself only the folly of Kenyans does"
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Mike Theuri <[email protected]> wrote:
One need only look at past history and realize that a Kenyan whether resident in Kenya or not is an underdog when it comes to fairly competing against foreign entities that have the "right connections" and "right" goes beyond having "business connections". When official policy intentionally or unintentionally appears to dictate that anything Kenyan led should be relegated or ranked lower because local is not better, is the biggest single contributing factor that has led to foreign control and ownership of key sectors of the economy.
One need only look at India's current economic prosperity where official policy was key in ensuring that any major player wanting to do business in India had to engage in joint ventures with local players, the benefit of that foresight can now be seen as some of these firms turn into true multinationals as a result of knowledge and technology transfer while ensuring that in the process, the wealth and long term benefits generated remained mostly in India and not in foreign coffers.
As for the diaspora, they may have already decided to keep off due to the lack of incentive and a guaranteed (not preferential) level playing field , besides remittances, can anyone mention any major investment activity in a key national sector that a broad based diaspora led initiative has succeeded when competing in one's own country against foreign led entities? The answer might be found once again in official policy and approach as this brief analysis indicates, why should one invest where they are likely to get burned by playing their cards fairly and transparently when the policy makers are not willing to address key issues of legitimate investor concern?
http://kenyaimagine.blogspot.com/2007/03/kimunya-attempts-to-woo-kenyan-dias...
On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 11:36 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
--- On Sun, 7/13/08, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
To certain members of this list who are either not resident or have not been resident in this country for some time, please be cautious with your statements, sometimes you might be bashing someone who has made huge sacrifice to serve this nation's ICT.
Earlier said we should not discriminate against non-Kenyans. Would you be asking that honest opinion now also be qualified and legitimized by the residency status? The Diaspora should keep off?
Expanding to all society, are historical "made huge sacrifice to serve this nation" permanent tickets to never be questioned? To be rewarded generously ad infinitum? I am avoiding cheapening the discussion.
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-- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com
-- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com
Joe, We have many qualified Kenyans both within and outside the country, who could run these companies just as efficiently, the foreign investors behind these companies obviously have their financial interests higher placed and that is why one of their own is at the helm. Economically speaking, there are many squandered opportunities that go to waste. For example the Egyptian government raised US$1 billion dollars from the sale of 3G licences. An entity with heavy interests in Kenya's ICT sector spent over $500m for such a licence. In contrast the same licence in Kenya went for $20m. Naturally new shareholders associated with the entity will be happy as "investors" that their new investment did not spend hundreds of millions to acquire access to a rare and finite national asset. Which brings one to what might seem like a wish list. What if the government had sold the 3G licences for $100m? $40m could have gone to the exchequer to ease tax payers burdens and $60m could have gone into an ICT specific development fund. The below thoughts assume that one would not come to the table empty handed and that the necessary vetting and due diligence would be naturally carried out: - Establish a self sustaining government managed fund to promote indigenous Kenyan ownership of enterprises specific to ICT a) Ease access to capital needs by helping fund eligible and qualifying indigenous enterprises b) Can be administered through the CBK or in conjunction with local commercial banks and limited to specific lending terms c) Establish repayment periods - Issue government backed guarantees to ease access to capital for qualifying enterprises or locals engaged in equity participation with foreign investors. - Establish laws and the framework to grant incentives to foreign investors who create opportunities for local investors to participate in their entities through significant equity participation. - Passive equity participation by government in local indigenous enterprises - Passive equity participation by government in foreign led enterprises with a view to eventually offloading the equity to Kenyans Perhaps additional questions to ask in trying to address these issues are: - What will it take to ensure that Kenyans can effectively compete in the global/regional ICT sector? - Who are the stakeholders needed to ensure that policies get the due attention of parliament? - What are the regulatory changes needed to allow the government to participate passively in private ICT sector investments? - At what level do regulatory changes that promote local ownership and entrepreneurship need to be undertaken to make this a part of official government policy and economic strategy? On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Joseph Manthi <[email protected]> wrote:
Mike So the question of the day is this?
Where do we go from here? Look at what foreign companies are doing all over Africa while we are napping - especially Indian and Middle Eastern ones? If I may be rhetorical - Is it a well established fact that we cannot find Kenyan - I mean indigenous Kenyans - MDs of Celtel, Safaricom, KDN, Orange etc? Is that a fact?
All Kenyan members of this list would like a concrete resolution to this - if I may be bold enough to say this.
Thanks, Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 6:39 PM, Mike Theuri <[email protected]> wrote:
Joe,
Had these rules been implemented, today we might be in a position to call Kenya "economically sovereign" but that is far from reality and unless corrective measures are undertaken rather quickly it will be too late unless the government of the day turns radical and resorts to nationalising private entities the Hugo Chavez way. However that is a mirage on the horizon, as any such attempts would likely to lead to expropriation claims in international world courts, pariah status and we would be headed the Zimbabwean way where having seven figures in one's bank account would qualify one as a poor millionaire.
Friends of Kenya are most welcome to give their input and offer expertise, however, policy making ought to be led and controlled by Kenyans. Policy makers and decision makers will hopefully grasp the urgency of the need to ensure that the country's economic independence and national security is not threatened by abdicating their core duties to formulate policy that will result in greater Kenyan ownership and control of the key sectors of the economy. If it takes legislation to mandate a shift in shareholding over time eg the South African economic empowerment way, it would be worth the time, consideration and study. As you correctly point out, the US, Canada, China, Libya and many more around the world would never allow foreigners directly or indirectly by proxy to define public policy, to do so would be to deliberately disown the nation's sovereignity.
Mike
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Joseph Manthi <[email protected]> wrote:
Mike Well said.
What I would like to add is that every investor in Kenya should be subjected to the same rules that a Kenyan would be subjected to in India and EEU or any other country. Additionally we should not be having foreigners attempting to shape Kenya's public policy. In fact in the US no foreign owned company is allowed anywhere near where public policy is created. Any foreign based public policy body must identify itself as such. In this case KIF would be an illegal associations because it has non Kenyan entities as its members.
At the end of the day when all hell breaks loose these guys are the first ones to get airlifted by their embassies and leave Kenyans to face the music alone. We have seen it time and again all over Africa.
They say: "History does not repeat itself only the folly of Kenyans does"
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Mike Theuri <[email protected]> wrote:
One need only look at past history and realize that a Kenyan whether resident in Kenya or not is an underdog when it comes to fairly competing against foreign entities that have the "right connections" and "right" goes beyond having "business connections". When official policy intentionally or unintentionally appears to dictate that anything Kenyan led should be relegated or ranked lower because local is not better, is the biggest single contributing factor that has led to foreign control and ownership of key sectors of the economy.
One need only look at India's current economic prosperity where official policy was key in ensuring that any major player wanting to do business in India had to engage in joint ventures with local players, the benefit of that foresight can now be seen as some of these firms turn into true multinationals as a result of knowledge and technology transfer while ensuring that in the process, the wealth and long term benefits generated remained mostly in India and not in foreign coffers.
As for the diaspora, they may have already decided to keep off due to the lack of incentive and a guaranteed (not preferential) level playing field , besides remittances, can anyone mention any major investment activity in a key national sector that a broad based diaspora led initiative has succeeded when competing in one's own country against foreign led entities? The answer might be found once again in official policy and approach as this brief analysis indicates, why should one invest where they are likely to get burned by playing their cards fairly and transparently when the policy makers are not willing to address key issues of legitimate investor concern?
http://kenyaimagine.blogspot.com/2007/03/kimunya-attempts-to-woo-kenyan-dias...
On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 11:36 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
--- On Sun, 7/13/08, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
To certain members of this list who are either not resident or have not been resident in this country for some time, please be cautious with your statements, sometimes you might be bashing someone who has made huge sacrifice to serve this nation's ICT.
Earlier said we should not discriminate against non-Kenyans. Would you be asking that honest opinion now also be qualified and legitimized by the residency status? The Diaspora should keep off?
Expanding to all society, are historical "made huge sacrifice to serve this nation" permanent tickets to never be questioned? To be rewarded generously ad infinitum? I am avoiding cheapening the discussion.
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This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mike.theuri%40gmail.com
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The idea of a meeting for all stakeholders is great! I suggest that an agenda for the meeting be agreed upon before the meeting. This can be done in this forum, probably with inclusion of other interested groups. Since the issues to be discussed are of such national importance, the meeting should be widely publicised to ensure information reaches all interested parties, not just those on KICTANET. Probably the PS's office can foot the bill for newspaper adverts? Regards Kisonzo From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 15 July 2008 01:51 To: [email protected] Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Ken Mike So the question of the day is this? Where do we go from here? Look at what foreign companies are doing all over Africa while we are napping - especially Indian and Middle Eastern ones? If I may be rhetorical - Is it a well established fact that we cannot find Kenyan - I mean indigenous Kenyans - MDs of Celtel, Safaricom, KDN, Orange etc? Is that a fact? All Kenyan members of this list would like a concrete resolution to this - if I may be bold enough to say this. Thanks, Joe On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 6:39 PM, Mike Theuri <[email protected]> wrote: Joe, Had these rules been implemented, today we might be in a position to call Kenya "economically sovereign" but that is far from reality and unless corrective measures are undertaken rather quickly it will be too late unless the government of the day turns radical and resorts to nationalising private entities the Hugo Chavez way. However that is a mirage on the horizon, as any such attempts would likely to lead to expropriation claims in international world courts, pariah status and we would be headed the Zimbabwean way where having seven figures in one's bank account would qualify one as a poor millionaire. Friends of Kenya are most welcome to give their input and offer expertise, however, policy making ought to be led and controlled by Kenyans. Policy makers and decision makers will hopefully grasp the urgency of the need to ensure that the country's economic independence and national security is not threatened by abdicating their core duties to formulate policy that will result in greater Kenyan ownership and control of the key sectors of the economy. If it takes legislation to mandate a shift in shareholding over time eg the South African economic empowerment way, it would be worth the time, consideration and study. As you correctly point out, the US, Canada, China, Libya and many more around the world would never allow foreigners directly or indirectly by proxy to define public policy, to do so would be to deliberately disown the nation's sovereignity. Mike On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Joseph Manthi <[email protected]> wrote: Mike Well said. What I would like to add is that every investor in Kenya should be subjected to the same rules that a Kenyan would be subjected to in India and EEU or any other country. Additionally we should not be having foreigners attempting to shape Kenya's public policy. In fact in the US no foreign owned company is allowed anywhere near where public policy is created. Any foreign based public policy body must identify itself as such. In this case KIF would be an illegal associations because it has non Kenyan entities as its members. At the end of the day when all hell breaks loose these guys are the first ones to get airlifted by their embassies and leave Kenyans to face the music alone. We have seen it time and again all over Africa. They say: "History does not repeat itself only the folly of Kenyans does" Joe On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Mike Theuri <[email protected]> wrote: One need only look at past history and realize that a Kenyan whether resident in Kenya or not is an underdog when it comes to fairly competing against foreign entities that have the "right connections" and "right" goes beyond having "business connections". When official policy intentionally or unintentionally appears to dictate that anything Kenyan led should be relegated or ranked lower because local is not better, is the biggest single contributing factor that has led to foreign control and ownership of key sectors of the economy. One need only look at India's current economic prosperity where official policy was key in ensuring that any major player wanting to do business in India had to engage in joint ventures with local players, the benefit of that foresight can now be seen as some of these firms turn into true multinationals as a result of knowledge and technology transfer while ensuring that in the process, the wealth and long term benefits generated remained mostly in India and not in foreign coffers. As for the diaspora, they may have already decided to keep off due to the lack of incentive and a guaranteed (not preferential) level playing field , besides remittances, can anyone mention any major investment activity in a key national sector that a broad based diaspora led initiative has succeeded when competing in one's own country against foreign led entities? The answer might be found once again in official policy and approach as this brief analysis indicates, why should one invest where they are likely to get burned by playing their cards fairly and transparently when the policy makers are not willing to address key issues of legitimate investor concern? http://kenyaimagine.blogspot.com/2007/03/kimunya-attempts-to-woo-kenyan-dias pora.html On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 11:36 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote: --- On Sun, 7/13/08, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
To certain members of this list who are either not resident or have not been resident in this country for some time, please be cautious with your statements, sometimes you might be bashing someone who has made huge sacrifice to serve this nation's ICT.
Earlier said we should not discriminate against non-Kenyans. Would you be asking that honest opinion now also be qualified and legitimized by the residency status? The Diaspora should keep off? Expanding to all society, are historical "made huge sacrifice to serve this nation" permanent tickets to never be questioned? To be rewarded generously ad infinitum? I am avoiding cheapening the discussion. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mike.theuri%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmail.com -- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com <http://www.meoltd.com/> -- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com
Dear all, It will be a great honour to host a stakeholders' meeting during the week of July 28th to kick off the ICT Policy review process. I note that some of you have strong views on our general economic orientation. This in my view may not be solvable easily. We must look into our history in order to shape our future. First the facts: The policy of Africanization failed. The pursuit of Panafricanism is good for Africa (see what Anan, Adeniji, Krigler etc have done to us when we could not agree), Kenyans are playing a key role in many countries and we shall hurt them if we pursue isolationist ideology, Kenya has highly qualified people who can easily be MDs in communication industry and that will happen as it has already happened with KQ, all operators in this country have a local equity participation that can be reviewed upwards whenever Kenyans demand so and in the past we have had to review the policy downwards to get to where we are. Will make more contribution on economic orientation later. Ndemo Sent from my BlackBerryĀ® -----Original Message----- From: "Sylvester Kisonzo" <[email protected]> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:37:16 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'kictanet-lists'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Ken _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke
Folks, I quick post as food for thought..... We all all know that poverty is the worst form of violence. We discussed this more than 15 months ago proposing some ICT related solutions... <http://www.bdix.net/pipermail/ke-internetusers/2007-April/date.html> Hitting the nail on the head, January's "tribal clashes" were no more than a violent ventilation of crippling poverty only wrongly directed at the visible but wrong "enemy" - your neighbour. The real enemy is poverty and the weapon to fight it is global competitiveness. Starting by thinking outside confines of Kenyan borders. Full stop. To dismantle institutionalised poverty (infra)structure requires cool, calm, and collected cunningness. We cannot now rush to self-isolate ourselves and risk a second wave of western media coverage xenophobia. Again occupying every world newspapers front pages and dominating their TV screens. Tourists again afraid to come and further diminishing our global competitiveness poverty rising further defeating desired objective. It's not about Florence Etta. Have we fully considered how other foreign development friends (in education, water, sanitation, health, etc ) may now feel after this? How many they are, what would be the consequences? We should avoid rushed venting of misplaced wraths on our visible friends solely on "foreign", "residency status" etc. We should embrace new friends and ditch bad local ones to avoid making a bad situation even worse then look for new tangible enemies to blame. Let us make the meeting an internationally acceptable multi-stakeholders forum, that we presented kictanet as during "best practice MSFs" at last years IGF. I had the presentation somewhere, I will look for it hopefully post here... On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 1:42 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear all, It will be a great honour to host a stakeholders' meeting during the week of July 28th to kick off the ICT Policy review process. I note that some of you have strong views on our general economic orientation. This in my view may not be solvable easily.
We must look into our history in order to shape our future. First the facts: The policy of Africanization failed. The pursuit of Panafricanism is good for Africa (see what Anan, Adeniji, Krigler etc have done to us when we could not agree), Kenyans are playing a key role in many countries and we shall hurt them if we pursue isolationist ideology, Kenya has highly qualified people who can easily be MDs in communication industry and that will happen as it has already happened with KQ, all operators in this country have a local equity participation that can be reviewed upwards whenever Kenyans demand so and in the past we have had to review the policy downwards to get to where we are.
Will make more contribution on economic orientation later.
Ndemo
Sent from my BlackBerry(R)
-----Original Message----- From: "Sylvester Kisonzo" <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:37:16 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'kictanet-lists'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Ken
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Bwana PS: Your comments are very welcome. As a Kenyan it is very heartening to see that these discussions are being taken seriously at the highest level. Again to misquote Jaramogi Oginga we - especially those in the diaspora who have to send money to our relatives every month for up keep - "it is yet not uhuru". Because we have no control of our destiny. Joe On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 6:42 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear all, It will be a great honour to host a stakeholders' meeting during the week of July 28th to kick off the ICT Policy review process. I note that some of you have strong views on our general economic orientation. This in my view may not be solvable easily.
We must look into our history in order to shape our future. First the facts: The policy of Africanization failed. The pursuit of Panafricanism is good for Africa (see what Anan, Adeniji, Krigler etc have done to us when we could not agree), Kenyans are playing a key role in many countries and we shall hurt them if we pursue isolationist ideology, Kenya has highly qualified people who can easily be MDs in communication industry and that will happen as it has already happened with KQ, all operators in this country have a local equity participation that can be reviewed upwards whenever Kenyans demand so and in the past we have had to review the policy downwards to get to where we are.
Will make more contribution on economic orientation later.
Ndemo
Sent from my BlackBerry(R)
-----Original Message----- From: "Sylvester Kisonzo" <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:37:16 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'kictanet-lists'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Ken
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Waudo, it will greatly help if you defined who is Kenyan. By definition Obama is Kenyan yet he is running for Presidency in the USA. If you read the history of this country, Desai, that is, Kevit's grandfather was a freedom fighter. Did he fight for his grand children to called foreigners? Ndemo Sent from my BlackBerryĀ® -----Original Message----- From: "waudo siganga" <[email protected]> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:19:42 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'kictanet-lists'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke
Dear Bwana PS - With all due respect I never mentioned specific names when talking about foreigners. There is no email where I have mentioned the name of Kevit as a foreigner. I talked generally about foreigners and the principle, which hopefully Government will suppport, is that they should not run ICT associations in Kenya. The foreigners know themselves. I have also restricted myself to talking about PRIVATE SECTOR organization. Kevit, whom I have hit hard regarding KEPSA, has agreed to look into the issues I raised and I mentioned that I look forward to that. As for US President all I know is that Article Two of the US Constitution sets the 3 principal qualifications to be eligible for election as US President, the first being that a Presidential candidate must: be a natural-born citizen of the United States. The little information I have about Obama I always thought he was American for purposes of that requirement. Otherwise thank you for facilitating the MSFs - hopefully we can make them more frequent as you suggested - and also being close to your constituency through this forum. Kind Regards, Waudo On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:49:21 +0000, [email protected] said:
Waudo, it will greatly help if you defined who is Kenyan. By definition Obama is Kenyan yet he is running for Presidency in the USA. If you read the history of this country, Desai, that is, Kevit's grandfather was a freedom fighter. Did he fight for his grand children to called foreigners?
Ndemo
Sent from my BlackBerryĀ®
-----Original Message----- From: "waudo siganga" <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:19:42 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'kictanet-lists'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya
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People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
Waudo, MSF's up to date have always attracted many associations. All of them being vibrant. GOVT associations are present and DR Ndemo personally chairs them. The system provides equal representation. I assure you i will make them better and also look into the important details, like letterheads. I was delighted to have your presence at the last MSF. You made important contributions. We have to keep collaborating, after all you are a vetran of ICT's. The ICT agenda is far too large for one organization to handle. All the associations in the country are important. Yes certainly keep being hope full, we all need to improve. I wish you had informed me of all your inhibitions directly. If you need further reassurance please come and see me. Brian was one of the first participants of the MSF's. Back then we were all new to the system that was passed on to us by the founding member off KEPSA, Mike Eldon. We all wanted to make a big difference. The tradition of selfless voluntarism by all members still continues. It's a hallmark of the ICT MSF. Kevit Desai KEPSA Director -----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of waudo siganga Sent: 09 July 2008 18:40 To: [email protected] Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change. Waudo On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM Hi Waudo,
As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful partnership.
Kevit Desai
_____
From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 To: Kevit Desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling KEPSA and KIF at the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote KIF at the expense of other associations. The explanation is very simple: KEPSA was formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised by INCLUSIVITY. KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the nature of such an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership mechanism). I would like to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT Board, not just KIF. Please give us space.
Waudo
On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with its own governance structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as KIF vice chairman.
KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry association, member of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman.
Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) private company, director, member of KIF.
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd
, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
htpp://www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
-----Original Message----- From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM To: kevit desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can answer it on
the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a rosy situation
including "collaboration" is simply not true. The reason to be frank is
that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other association to
have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could you as a
KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations including the
major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in KEPSA? It can be
sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote KIF and crack
down on those you feel are in the way.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai"
<[email protected]> said:
Hi Walu,
Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I would like to confirm
that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would like to do a lot
more
and welcome more support.
We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last ministerial stakeholder
forum.
Collaboration is the way forward.
Kevit Desai
KEPSA Director
-----Original Message-----
From:
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
]
On Behalf Of waudo siganga
Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02
Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
e-Commerce in
Kenya
Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS somewhere in the
bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT (or ICT) Profession
on this list a few months ago. But the rather unenthusiastic response I
got gave me the sense that possibly this was not
correct list since
many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT Policy rather than
being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks there will be another
list for professionals and you will be informed (you have the
qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a registration board
like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and Procurement
Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on unheralded. All we need
is a champion or chanpions in the right place.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John Walubengo"
<[email protected]> said:
Marcel,
It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in this
area...unfortunately it seems as if it was restricted within KIF only? I
wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r u there?) or
Information Security Audit & Control (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to
mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya were involved. I beg to
be enlightened.
This brings in an old question - who really represents the IT Profession
in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying
IT is the only
discipline where we seem to lack bodies with
same authority as LSK
(Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of Engineers of Kenya), Medical
Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate the IT Profession.
And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill either (and has a
different objective anyway). But time has come to really start thinking
of regulating the IT profession, even as we struggle to regulate the
industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on this, but they have been
awfully quite except when they award prizes at the end of the year (Waudo
I know u will kill me offline but I just had to say it!).
KEPSA? very reputable and effective
in the Manufacturing
sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as effective - particularly
because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT industry has been 'cloudy'
for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK or ISACA be part of
KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to be enlightened.
O.K. I agree I did digress, but just
loudly and saying that as
we think of regulating electronic
Regulation for the that the particularly thinking transactions,
we also need to
simultaneously start regulating the IT profession..but maybe I am wrong.
Particularly because regulation can and often leads to suppression...
walu.
--- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: Marcel Werner <[email protected]>
> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>
> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # 3 - Report -
> Public Panel 19
> June 2008
>
> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add at least one
> percent point growth
> to Kenya's overall economic growth within five years.
> This is contingent
> upon the adoption of legislation that supports electronic
> transactions. *Kenya,
> as an emerging economy and regional leader, lags behind in
> having a legal
> framework for e-commerce in place. The current situation is
> an anachronism
> hampering national development, placing provincial centres
> at a
> disadvantage, and harming global competitiveness. Both
> external and internal
> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan private sector
> strongly supports
> e-commerce legislation, as well as legislation of the
> Information and
> Communication Technology sector that guarantees an open
> market and promotes
> innovation.
>
> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation supporting
> electronic transactions
> represents the single most powerful innovation opportunity
> in the legal
> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is needed to:
> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by recognizing an
> electronic signature
> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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Thanks Kevit. Actually my appearance and that of other new stakeholders at the last MSF was due to the reforms that have been forced into KEPSA ICT Board under the resitance of KIF. I was not even aware of earlier MSFs. It's like they were arranged secretly on the part of the Private sector by KIF. The PS chairs the MSF but he is not part of how the private sector organizes itself to arrive there. He does his part by offering the forum. Nonetheless I will take your word that you are committed to inclusivity. Recent happenings in KEPSA ICT Board including abandonment of election of vice-chairs/villification of those facilitating the inclusivity agenda had not indicated that. Waudo On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 20:54:40 +0300, "kevit desai" <[email protected]> said:
Waudo, MSF's up to date have always attracted many associations. All of them being vibrant. GOVT associations are present and DR Ndemo personally chairs them. The system provides equal representation. I assure you i will make them better and also look into the important details, like letterheads. I was delighted to have your presence at the last MSF. You made important contributions. We have to keep collaborating, after all you are a vetran of ICT's. The ICT agenda is far too large for one organization to handle. All the associations in the country are important. Yes certainly keep being hope full, we all need to improve. I wish you had informed me of all your inhibitions directly. If you need further reassurance please come and see me.
Brian was one of the first participants of the MSF's. Back then we were all new to the system that was passed on to us by the founding member off KEPSA, Mike Eldon. We all wanted to make a big difference. The tradition of selfless voluntarism by all members still continues. It's a hallmark of the ICT MSF.
Kevit Desai KEPSA Director
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of waudo siganga Sent: 09 July 2008 18:40 To: [email protected] Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM Hi Waudo,
As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful partnership.
Kevit Desai
_____
From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 To: Kevit Desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling KEPSA and KIF at the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote KIF at the expense of other associations. The explanation is very simple: KEPSA was formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised by INCLUSIVITY. KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the nature of such an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership mechanism). I would like to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT Board, not just KIF. Please give us space.
Waudo
On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with its own governance structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as KIF vice chairman.
KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry association, member of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman.
Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) private company, director, member of KIF.
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd
, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
htpp://www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
-----Original Message----- From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM To: kevit desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can answer it on
the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a rosy situation
including "collaboration" is simply not true. The reason to be frank is
that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other association to
have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could you as a
KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations including the
major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in KEPSA? It can be
sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote KIF and crack
down on those you feel are in the way.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai"
<[email protected]> said:
Hi Walu,
Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I would like to confirm
that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would like to do a lot
more
and welcome more support.
We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last ministerial stakeholder
forum.
Collaboration is the way forward.
Kevit Desai
KEPSA Director
-----Original Message-----
From:
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
]
On Behalf Of waudo siganga
Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02
Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
e-Commerce in
Kenya
Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS somewhere in the
bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT (or ICT) Profession
on this list a few months ago. But the rather unenthusiastic response I
got gave me the sense that possibly this was not
correct list since
many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT Policy rather than
being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks there will be another
list for professionals and you will be informed (you have the
qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a registration board
like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and Procurement
Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on unheralded. All we need
is a champion or chanpions in the right place.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John Walubengo"
<[email protected]> said:
> Marcel,
>
> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in this
> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was restricted within KIF only? I
> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r u there?) or
> Information Security Audit & Control (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to
> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya were involved. I beg to
> be enlightened.
>
> This brings in an old question - who really represents the IT Profession
> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying
IT is the only
> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with
same authority as LSK
> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of Engineers of Kenya), Medical
> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate the IT Profession.
>
> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill either (and has a
> different objective anyway). But time has come to really start thinking
> of regulating the IT profession, even as we struggle to regulate the
> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on this, but they have been
> awfully quite except when they award prizes at the end of the year (Waudo
> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to say it!).
>
> KEPSA? very reputable and effective
in the Manufacturing
> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as effective - particularly
> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT industry has been 'cloudy'
> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK or ISACA be part of
> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to be enlightened.
>
> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just
loudly and saying that as
> we think of regulating electronic
Regulation for the that the particularly thinking transactions,
we also need to
> simultaneously start regulating the IT profession..but maybe I am wrong.
> Particularly because regulation can and often leads to suppression...
>
> walu.
> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> From: Marcel Werner <[email protected]>
>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>> To: [email protected]
>> Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>>
>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # 3 - Report -
>> Public Panel 19
>> June 2008
>>
>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add at least one
>> percent point growth
>> to Kenya's overall economic growth within five years.
>> This is contingent
>> upon the adoption of legislation that supports electronic
>> transactions. *Kenya,
>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, lags behind in
>> having a legal
>> framework for e-commerce in place. The current situation is
>> an anachronism
>> hampering national development, placing provincial centres
>> at a
>> disadvantage, and harming global competitiveness. Both
>> external and internal
>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan private sector
>> strongly supports
>> e-commerce legislation, as well as legislation of the
>> Information and
>> Communication Technology sector that guarantees an open
>> market and promotes
>> innovation.
>>
>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation supporting
>> electronic transactions
>> represents the single most powerful innovation opportunity
>> in the legal
>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is needed to:
>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by recognizing an
>> electronic signature
>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kevit%40centurionsystem sltd.com
People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
Hi Kevit, I have been following the many comments on KIF the past two days. May I suggest that KIF calls a meeting at some point with all its associated Associations to iron out any issues and chart a way forward on how the groups can work representatively in KEPSA? I think that may address the "transparency" queries I am seeing on emails on KICTANET. Kind regards, Gilda Odera ----- Original Message ----- From: "kevit desai" <[email protected]> To: "Gilda Odera" <[email protected]> Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo, MSF's up to date have always attracted many associations. All of them being vibrant. GOVT associations are present and DR Ndemo personally chairs them. The system provides equal representation. I assure you i will make them better and also look into the important details, like letterheads. I was delighted to have your presence at the last MSF. You made important contributions. We have to keep collaborating, after all you are a vetran of ICT's. The ICT agenda is far too large for one organization to handle. All the associations in the country are important. Yes certainly keep being hope full, we all need to improve. I wish you had informed me of all your inhibitions directly. If you need further reassurance please come and see me.
Brian was one of the first participants of the MSF's. Back then we were all new to the system that was passed on to us by the founding member off KEPSA, Mike Eldon. We all wanted to make a big difference. The tradition of selfless voluntarism by all members still continues. It's a hallmark of the ICT MSF.
Kevit Desai KEPSA Director
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of waudo siganga Sent: 09 July 2008 18:40 To: [email protected] Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <[email protected]> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >> www.kif.or.ke ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence: KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: kevit desai <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected], "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM Hi Waudo,
As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful partnership.
Kevit Desai
_____
From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 To: Kevit Desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling KEPSA and KIF at the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote KIF at the expense of other associations. The explanation is very simple: KEPSA was formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised by INCLUSIVITY. KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the nature of such an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership mechanism). I would like to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT Board, not just KIF. Please give us space.
Waudo
On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" <[email protected]> said:
Hi Alex,
KEPSA ([email protected]): private sector policy body with its own governance structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as KIF vice chairman.
KIF ([email protected]): membership-based industry association, member of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman.
Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com) private company, director, member of KIF.
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd
, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
http://www.innovation-africa.net
htpp://www.ict.go.ke
http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
-----Original Message----- From: waudo siganga [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM To: kevit desai Cc: [email protected]; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can answer it on
the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a rosy situation
including "collaboration" is simply not true. The reason to be frank is
that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other association to
have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could you as a
KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations including the
major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in KEPSA? It can be
sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote KIF and crack
down on those you feel are in the way.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai"
<[email protected]> said:
Hi Walu,
Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I would like to confirm
that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would like to do a lot
more
and welcome more support.
We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last ministerial stakeholder
forum.
Collaboration is the way forward.
Kevit Desai
KEPSA Director
-----Original Message-----
From:
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
]
On Behalf Of waudo siganga
Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02
Cc: [email protected]; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
e-Commerce in
Kenya
Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS somewhere in the
bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT (or ICT) Profession
on this list a few months ago. But the rather unenthusiastic response I
got gave me the sense that possibly this was not
correct list since
many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT Policy rather than
being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks there will be another
list for professionals and you will be informed (you have the
qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a registration board
like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and Procurement
Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on unheralded. All we need
is a champion or chanpions in the right place.
Waudo
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John Walubengo"
<[email protected]> said:
> Marcel,
>
> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in this
> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was restricted within KIF only? I
> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r u there?) or
> Information Security Audit & Control (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to
> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya were involved. I beg to
> be enlightened.
>
> This brings in an old question - who really represents the IT Profession
> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying
IT is the only
> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with
same authority as LSK
> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of Engineers of Kenya), Medical
> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate the IT Profession.
>
> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill either (and has a
> different objective anyway). But time has come to really start thinking
> of regulating the IT profession, even as we struggle to regulate the
> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on this, but they have been
> awfully quite except when they award prizes at the end of the year (Waudo
> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to say it!).
>
> KEPSA? very reputable and effective
in the Manufacturing
> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as effective - particularly
> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT industry has been 'cloudy'
> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK or ISACA be part of
> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to be enlightened.
>
> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just
loudly and saying that as
> we think of regulating electronic
Regulation for the that the particularly thinking transactions,
we also need to
> simultaneously start regulating the IT profession..but maybe I am wrong.
> Particularly because regulation can and often leads to suppression...
>
> walu.
> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> From: Marcel Werner <[email protected]>
>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>> To: [email protected]
>> Cc: [email protected], "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>>
>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # 3 - Report -
>> Public Panel 19
>> June 2008
>>
>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add at least one
>> percent point growth
>> to Kenya's overall economic growth within five years.
>> This is contingent
>> upon the adoption of legislation that supports electronic
>> transactions. *Kenya,
>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, lags behind in
>> having a legal
>> framework for e-commerce in place. The current situation is
>> an anachronism
>> hampering national development, placing provincial centres
>> at a
>> disadvantage, and harming global competitiveness. Both
>> external and internal
>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan private sector
>> strongly supports
>> e-commerce legislation, as well as legislation of the
>> Information and
>> Communication Technology sector that guarantees an open
>> market and promotes
>> innovation.
>>
>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation supporting
>> electronic transactions
>> represents the single most powerful innovation opportunity
>> in the legal
>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is needed to:
>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by recognizing an
>> electronic signature
>> -Manage and control e-commerce r <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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participants (18)
-
Alex Gakuru -
alkagsļ¼ alkags.com -
Bill Kagai -
bitangeļ¼ jambo.co.ke -
Brian Longwe -
Brian Munyao Longwe
-
Gakuru , Alex -
Gilda Odera -
John Walubengo -
Joseph Manthi -
kevit desai -
Marcel Werner -
Mike Theuri -
Shem Ochuodho -
Sylvester Kisonzo -
wambui jane -
waudo siganga -
wesley kiriinya