in case yhou support journalists... Hi all. This is to inform you that we have already notified the police that we shall be holding a peaceful procession as indicated in Mbaus email. We have also dispatched a letter to the AG asking him or his representative to wait for our petition on the appointed date. Please send this message to as many journalists as you can. Thank you. _____________________________________________ From: Samuel Mbau Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 12:23 PM To: Julius Bosire; Owino Opondo; Editorial Cc: Business Daily; Easy FM; eam; NTV News Subject: SILENT DEMO Dear journalist, The contentious clause 38 (4) in the Media Bill states: "When a story includes unnamed parties who are not disclosed and the same becomes the subject of a legal tussle as to who is meant, then the editor shall be obligated to disclose the identity of the party or parties referred to." As members of the Fourth Estate who take it upon ourselves to fight for the rights of others, we simply cannot afford to sit down and do nothing while our own rights and a basic tenets of our profession are at stake. The Silent Demo is on! The Silent Demonstration will take place on Wednesday August 15, with the blessings and the support from the majority of media houses and associations as well as myriads of well wishers. We shall assemble 8:30am at Freedom Corner at Uhuru Park. We will then march to the AGs Chambers (via Kenyatta Ave- Moi Ave- Harambee Ave) where we will present a petition to the chief legal adviser to the Government and ask him to advise the President against signing the proposed law. We shall then proceed to march around Parliament two times before breaking the demo at Freedom corner. The whole programme should take about two hours maximum. The demo is silent for there will be no chanting nor singing. We will actually be quiet through out the march and our mouths gagged with black cloth or duct tape. We can also adorn black scarves, head bands or arm bands. So please bring along a gag, dress in your organisations branded wear [if available], AND remember to put on some comfortable walking shoes. We are looking forward to your participation and your organisations support as we SILENCE this bad law. NB: Watch out for a spectacular media showing on that day. Standing as one, Inter-media committee DISCLAIMER: The information contained in or accompanying this e-mail is intended for the use of the stated recipient only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Any views or opinions presented herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Nation Media Group. Tel. 254 720 318 925 blog:http://beckyit.blogspot.com/ --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
Rebecca, I did not want to comment on the Demo but I think the public is being misled here. What is the reasoning behind the Demo when the Government has made it clear that the issue shall be looked at? We delivered on all promises we made to the stakeholders and those who bothered to read and seek dialog. I think by resorting into mob psychology you risk eroding the confidence and and trust that we have built over the past view years. Since we have another bill coming, I have decided to present the lessons learnt (attached) from the Media Bill to avoid such situation in the ICT Bill. It is important that we all understand the legislative process in Kenya and it is only by making decisions based on knowledge that we can develop a civilized nation. Regards Bitange Ndemo.
in case yhou support journalists... Hi all. This is to inform you that we have already notified the police that we shall be holding a peaceful procession as indicated in Mbaus email. We have also dispatched a letter to the AG asking him or his representative to wait for our petition on the appointed date. Please send this message to as many journalists as you can. Thank you. _____________________________________________ From: Samuel Mbau Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 12:23 PM To: Julius Bosire; Owino Opondo; Editorial Cc: Business Daily; Easy FM; eam; NTV News Subject: SILENT DEMO
Dear journalist, The contentious clause 38 (4) in the Media Bill states: "When a story includes unnamed parties who are not disclosed and the same becomes the subject of a legal tussle as to who is meant, then the editor shall be obligated to disclose the identity of the party or parties referred to." As members of the Fourth Estate who take it upon ourselves to fight for the rights of others, we simply cannot afford to sit down and do nothing while our own rights and a basic tenets of our profession are at stake. The Silent Demo is on! The Silent Demonstration will take place on Wednesday August 15, with the blessings and the support from the majority of media houses and associations as well as myriads of well wishers. We shall assemble 8:30am at Freedom Corner at Uhuru Park. We will then march to the AGs Chambers (via Kenyatta Ave- Moi Ave- Harambee Ave) where we will present a petition to the chief legal adviser to the Government and ask him to advise the President against signing the proposed law. We shall then proceed to march around Parliament two times before breaking the demo at Freedom corner. The whole programme should take about two hours maximum. The demo is silent for there will be no chanting nor singing. We will actually be quiet through out the march and our mouths gagged with black cloth or duct tape. We can also adorn black scarves, head bands or arm bands. So please bring along a gag, dress in your organisations branded wear [if available], AND remember to put on some comfortable walking shoes. We are looking forward to your participation and your organisations support as we SILENCE this bad law. NB: Watch out for a spectacular media showing on that day. Standing as one, Inter-media committee
DISCLAIMER: The information contained in or accompanying this e-mail is intended for the use of the stated recipient only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Any views or opinions presented herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Nation Media Group.
Tel. 254 720 318 925
blog:http://beckyit.blogspot.com/
--------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
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Thank you very much Bw. Ndemo for this clear, concise and very practical reminder of our legislative process (it's amazing how quickly we forget the stuff we learnt in pri/sec school)! Rgds, Brian On Aug 14, 2007, at 1:41 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Rebecca, I did not want to comment on the Demo but I think the public is being misled here. What is the reasoning behind the Demo when the Government has made it clear that the issue shall be looked at? We delivered on all promises we made to the stakeholders and those who bothered to read and seek dialog. I think by resorting into mob psychology you risk eroding the confidence and and trust that we have built over the past view years.
Since we have another bill coming, I have decided to present the lessons learnt (attached) from the Media Bill to avoid such situation in the ICT Bill. It is important that we all understand the legislative process in Kenya and it is only by making decisions based on knowledge that we can develop a civilized nation.
Regards
Bitange Ndemo.
in case yhou support journalists... Hi all. This is to inform you that we have already notified the police that we shall be holding a peaceful procession as indicated in Mbau’s email. We have also dispatched a letter to the AG asking him or his representative to wait for our petition on the appointed date. Please send this message to as many journalists as you can. Thank you. _____________________________________________ From: Samuel Mbau Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 12:23 PM To: Julius Bosire; Owino Opondo; Editorial Cc: Business Daily; Easy FM; eam; NTV News Subject: SILENT DEMO
Dear journalist, The contentious clause 38 (4) in the Media Bill states: "When a story includes unnamed parties who are not disclosed and the same becomes the subject of a legal tussle as to who is meant, then the editor shall be obligated to disclose the identity of the party or parties referred to." As members of the Fourth Estate who take it upon ourselves to fight for the rights of others, we simply cannot afford to sit down and do nothing while our own rights and a basic tenets of our profession are at stake. The Silent Demo is on! The ‘’Silent Demonstration’’ will take place on Wednesday August 15, with the blessings and the support from the majority of media houses and associations as well as myriads of well wishers. We shall assemble 8:30am at Freedom Corner at Uhuru Park. We will then march to the AG’s Chambers (via Kenyatta Ave- Moi Ave- Harambee Ave) where we will present a petition to the chief legal adviser to the Government and ask him to advise the President against signing the proposed law. We shall then proceed to march around Parliament two times before breaking the demo at Freedom corner. The whole programme should take about two hours maximum. The demo is silent for there will be no chanting nor singing. We will actually be quiet through out the march and our mouths gagged with black cloth or duct tape. We can also adorn black scarves, head bands or arm bands. So please bring along a gag, dress in your organisation’s branded wear [if available], AND remember to put on some comfortable walking shoes. We are looking forward to your participation and your organisation’s support as we SILENCE this bad law. NB: Watch out for a spectacular media showing on that day. Standing as one, Inter-media committee
DISCLAIMER: The information contained in or accompanying this e- mail is intended for the use of the stated recipient only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Any views or opinions presented herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Nation Media Group.
Tel. 254 720 318 925
blog:http://beckyit.blogspot.com/
--------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
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<The Communications Amendment.doc>
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Dr. Ndemo, You invited us to Safari Park Hotel and on information and belief, we were coming to meet the Parliament Committee. We understood your at the venue explanation why they could not come. However, Would you be in a position to inform stakeholders what to expect of our Safari Park contributions on the Kenya Communications Amendment Bill 2007? i.e. does the ministry have an "updated" version-considerate of expressed concerns? I am made to understand that a Bill's mover (who in this case is the Minister) is allowed to amend it anytime. This also would not only help us know where our concerns lay but it would also help us take informed engagements with the Energy and Communications Committee. I request for this information in view of your emailed informative note advising stakeholders on the law making processes, advising on the steps, when and where to engaging parliamentary committees in the process. Hope to hear from you. Sincerely, Alex --- Brian Longwe <brian@isisweb.nl> wrote:
Thank you very much Bw. Ndemo for this clear, concise and very practical reminder of our legislative process (it's amazing how quickly we forget the stuff we learnt in pri/sec school)!
Rgds,
Brian
On Aug 14, 2007, at 1:41 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Rebecca, I did not want to comment on the Demo but I think
misled here. What is the reasoning behind the Demo when the Government has made it clear that the issue shall be looked at? We delivered on all promises we made to the stakeholders and those who bothered to read and seek dialog. I think by resorting into mob
eroding the confidence and and trust that we have built over the past view years.
Since we have another bill coming, I have decided to present the lessons learnt (attached) from the Media Bill to avoid such situation in the ICT Bill. It is important that we all understand the legislative process in Kenya and it is only by making decisions based on knowledge that we can develop a civilized nation.
Regards
Bitange Ndemo.
in case yhou support journalists... Hi all. This is to inform you that we have already notified the police that we shall be holding a peaceful procession as indicated in Mbaus email. We have also dispatched a letter to the AG asking him or his representative to wait for our petition on the appointed date. Please send this message to as many journalists as you can. Thank you. _____________________________________________ From: Samuel Mbau Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 12:23 PM To: Julius Bosire; Owino Opondo; Editorial Cc: Business Daily; Easy FM; eam; NTV News Subject: SILENT DEMO
Dear journalist, The contentious clause 38 (4) in the Media Bill states: "When a story includes unnamed parties who are not disclosed and the same becomes the subject of a legal tussle as to who is meant, then the editor shall be obligated to disclose the identity of the party or parties referred to." As members of the Fourth Estate who take it upon ourselves to fight for the rights of others, we simply cannot afford to sit down and do nothing while our own rights and a basic tenets of our
stake. The Silent Demo is on! The Silent Demonstration will take place on Wednesday August 15, with the blessings and the support from the majority of media houses and associations as well as myriads of well wishers. We shall assemble 8:30am at Freedom Corner at Uhuru Park. We will then march to the AGs Chambers (via Kenyatta Ave- Moi Ave- Harambee Ave) where we will present a petition to the chief legal adviser to the Government and ask him to advise the President against signing the proposed law. We shall then proceed to march around Parliament two times before breaking the demo at Freedom corner. The whole
about two hours maximum. The demo is silent for there will be no chanting nor singing. We will actually be quiet through out the march and our mouths gagged with black cloth or duct tape. We can also adorn black scarves, head bands or arm bands. So please bring along a gag, dress in your organisations branded wear [if available], AND remember to put on some comfortable walking shoes. We are looking forward to your participation and your organisations support as we SILENCE this bad law. NB: Watch out for a spectacular media showing on that day. Standing as one, Inter-media committee
DISCLAIMER: The information contained in or accompanying this e- mail is intended for the use of the stated recipient only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of
the public is being psychology you risk profession are at programme should take this message if
you are not the intended recipient. Any views or opinions presented herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Nation Media Group.
Tel. 254 720 318 925
blog:http://beckyit.blogspot.com/
--------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
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Once upon a time in 2004 when i worked for Kenya ICT Policy project of IDRC, i came across a bill process presentented in a conference organized by IPAR. I have since forgotten the parts i can audit in the process for the benefit of this list..Could any one be having ideas of all what it takes and what models are involved in the whole process of which we can use task our law makers..and those resposible? In respect to this we should be able to support the quest of Alex and know which areas we should be macho Dr Eric Aligula and Etta are you on this list? My believe is that based on the maturity model used to come up with our laws and with our auditing and transparency skills ( both systems and process we can capture easily where things may be going wrong, unaccepatable, queatioanable etc?) In simple terms, whats the process and how are the stakeholders interest aligned to any bill process? Whats controls are in place to capture all the interests? Regards Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote: Dr. Ndemo, You invited us to Safari Park Hotel and on information and belief, we were coming to meet the Parliament Committee. We understood your at the venue explanation why they could not come. However, Would you be in a position to inform stakeholders what to expect of our Safari Park contributions on the Kenya Communications Amendment Bill 2007? i.e. does the ministry have an "updated" version-considerate of expressed concerns? I am made to understand that a Bill's mover (who in this case is the Minister) is allowed to amend it anytime. This also would not only help us know where our concerns lay but it would also help us take informed engagements with the Energy and Communications Committee. I request for this information in view of your emailed informative note advising stakeholders on the law making processes, advising on the steps, when and where to engaging parliamentary committees in the process. Hope to hear from you. Sincerely, Alex --- Brian Longwe wrote:
Thank you very much Bw. Ndemo for this clear, concise and very practical reminder of our legislative process (it's amazing how quickly we forget the stuff we learnt in pri/sec school)!
Rgds,
Brian
On Aug 14, 2007, at 1:41 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Rebecca, I did not want to comment on the Demo but I think
misled here. What is the reasoning behind the Demo when the Government has made it clear that the issue shall be looked at? We delivered on all promises we made to the stakeholders and those who bothered to read and seek dialog. I think by resorting into mob
eroding the confidence and and trust that we have built over the past view years.
Since we have another bill coming, I have decided to present the lessons learnt (attached) from the Media Bill to avoid such situation in the ICT Bill. It is important that we all understand the legislative process in Kenya and it is only by making decisions based on knowledge that we can develop a civilized nation.
Regards
Bitange Ndemo.
in case yhou support journalists... Hi all. This is to inform you that we have already notified the police that we shall be holding a peaceful procession as indicated in Mbaus email. We have also dispatched a letter to the AG asking him or his representative to wait for our petition on the appointed date. Please send this message to as many journalists as you can. Thank you. _____________________________________________ From: Samuel Mbau Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 12:23 PM To: Julius Bosire; Owino Opondo; Editorial Cc: Business Daily; Easy FM; eam; NTV News Subject: SILENT DEMO
Dear journalist, The contentious clause 38 (4) in the Media Bill states: "When a story includes unnamed parties who are not disclosed and the same becomes the subject of a legal tussle as to who is meant, then the editor shall be obligated to disclose the identity of the party or parties referred to." As members of the Fourth Estate who take it upon ourselves to fight for the rights of others, we simply cannot afford to sit down and do nothing while our own rights and a basic tenets of our
stake. The Silent Demo is on! The Silent Demonstration will take place on Wednesday August 15, with the blessings and the support from the majority of media houses and associations as well as myriads of well wishers. We shall assemble 8:30am at Freedom Corner at Uhuru Park. We will then march to the AGs Chambers (via Kenyatta Ave- Moi Ave- Harambee Ave) where we will present a petition to the chief legal adviser to the Government and ask him to advise the President against signing the proposed law. We shall then proceed to march around Parliament two times before breaking the demo at Freedom corner. The whole
about two hours maximum. The demo is silent for there will be no chanting nor singing. We will actually be quiet through out the march and our mouths gagged with black cloth or duct tape. We can also adorn black scarves, head bands or arm bands. So please bring along a gag, dress in your organisations branded wear [if available], AND remember to put on some comfortable walking shoes. We are looking forward to your participation and your organisations support as we SILENCE this bad law. NB: Watch out for a spectacular media showing on that day. Standing as one, Inter-media committee
DISCLAIMER: The information contained in or accompanying this e- mail is intended for the use of the stated recipient only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of
the public is being psychology you risk profession are at programme should take this message if
you are not the intended recipient. Any views or opinions presented herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Nation Media Group.
Tel. 254 720 318 925
blog:http://beckyit.blogspot.com/
--------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
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=== message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: benmakai@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/benmakai%40yahoo.com Benjamin Makai Tel: 254-722-540641 P.O. Box 8608, 00300, Nairobi, Kenya --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.
Dear Alex, I tried to explain how parliament works earlier in the week. We cannot revise the bill here. We have taken the proposals to the committee for consideration. Luckily today the committee sumoned me to parliament. They want to have a stakeholder's meeting either on Tuesady or Thursday next week in Mombasa. I shall confirm this to you tomorrow. Any changes now must go through the committee since the bill belongs to parliament. You have this window to make the necessary changes. The safari Park proposals are already with them but they may decide that they do not want to include them. This is where we need the stakeholders to push. I hope you do not leave this window of opportunity to pass and blame us later. Regards Ndemo.
Dr. Ndemo,
You invited us to Safari Park Hotel and on information and belief, we were coming to meet the Parliament Committee. We understood your at the venue explanation why they could not come.
However,
Would you be in a position to inform stakeholders what to expect of our Safari Park contributions on the Kenya Communications Amendment Bill 2007? i.e. does the ministry have an "updated" version-considerate of expressed concerns? I am made to understand that a Bill's mover (who in this case is the Minister) is allowed to amend it anytime.
This also would not only help us know where our concerns lay but it would also help us take informed engagements with the Energy and Communications Committee.
I request for this information in view of your emailed informative note advising stakeholders on the law making processes, advising on the steps, when and where to engaging parliamentary committees in the process.
Hope to hear from you.
Sincerely,
Alex
--- Brian Longwe <brian@isisweb.nl> wrote:
Thank you very much Bw. Ndemo for this clear, concise and very practical reminder of our legislative process (it's amazing how quickly we forget the stuff we learnt in pri/sec school)!
Rgds,
Brian
On Aug 14, 2007, at 1:41 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Rebecca, I did not want to comment on the Demo but I think
misled here. What is the reasoning behind the Demo when the Government has made it clear that the issue shall be looked at? We delivered on all promises we made to the stakeholders and those who bothered to read and seek dialog. I think by resorting into mob
eroding the confidence and and trust that we have built over the past view years.
Since we have another bill coming, I have decided to present the lessons learnt (attached) from the Media Bill to avoid such situation in the ICT Bill. It is important that we all understand the legislative process in Kenya and it is only by making decisions based on knowledge that we can develop a civilized nation.
Regards
Bitange Ndemo.
in case yhou support journalists... Hi all. This is to inform you that we have already notified the police that we shall be holding a peaceful procession as indicated in Mbaus email. We have also dispatched a letter to the AG asking him or his representative to wait for our petition on the appointed date. Please send this message to as many journalists as you can. Thank you. _____________________________________________ From: Samuel Mbau Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 12:23 PM To: Julius Bosire; Owino Opondo; Editorial Cc: Business Daily; Easy FM; eam; NTV News Subject: SILENT DEMO
Dear journalist, The contentious clause 38 (4) in the Media Bill states: "When a story includes unnamed parties who are not disclosed and the same becomes the subject of a legal tussle as to who is meant, then the editor shall be obligated to disclose the identity of the party or parties referred to." As members of the Fourth Estate who take it upon ourselves to fight for the rights of others, we simply cannot afford to sit down and do nothing while our own rights and a basic tenets of our
stake. The Silent Demo is on! The Silent Demonstration will take place on Wednesday August 15, with the blessings and the support from the majority of media houses and associations as well as myriads of well wishers. We shall assemble 8:30am at Freedom Corner at Uhuru Park. We will then march to the AGs Chambers (via Kenyatta Ave- Moi Ave- Harambee Ave) where we will present a petition to the chief legal adviser to the Government and ask him to advise the President against signing the proposed law. We shall then proceed to march around Parliament two times before breaking the demo at Freedom corner. The whole
about two hours maximum. The demo is silent for there will be no chanting nor singing. We will actually be quiet through out the march and our mouths gagged with black cloth or duct tape. We can also adorn black scarves, head bands or arm bands. So please bring along a gag, dress in your organisations branded wear [if available], AND remember to put on some comfortable walking shoes. We are looking forward to your participation and your organisations support as we SILENCE this bad law. NB: Watch out for a spectacular media showing on that day. Standing as one, Inter-media committee
DISCLAIMER: The information contained in or accompanying this e- mail is intended for the use of the stated recipient only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of
the public is being psychology you risk profession are at programme should take this message if
you are not the intended recipient. Any views or opinions presented herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Nation Media Group.
Tel. 254 720 318 925
blog:http://beckyit.blogspot.com/
--------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
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=== message truncated
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Dr.Ndemo This information is very necessary and important. Kindly could you also outline to the level or rather phases pertaining the same sir. This gives us the the auditable elements of the process for the few whom may not be aware of the process and yet they may want to shout loundest.. All is about the welfare of our countr y(personal sentiments and not about who shouts loundest and in some situations or least solutions. ICT is all bout solutions and world wide tested and proven best practices) Regards bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote: Dear Alex, I tried to explain how parliament works earlier in the week. We cannot revise the bill here. We have taken the proposals to the committee for consideration. Luckily today the committee sumoned me to parliament. They want to have a stakeholder's meeting either on Tuesady or Thursday next week in Mombasa. I shall confirm this to you tomorrow. Any changes now must go through the committee since the bill belongs to parliament. You have this window to make the necessary changes. The safari Park proposals are already with them but they may decide that they do not want to include them. This is where we need the stakeholders to push. I hope you do not leave this window of opportunity to pass and blame us later. Regards Ndemo.
Dr. Ndemo,
You invited us to Safari Park Hotel and on information and belief, we were coming to meet the Parliament Committee. We understood your at the venue explanation why they could not come.
However,
Would you be in a position to inform stakeholders what to expect of our Safari Park contributions on the Kenya Communications Amendment Bill 2007? i.e. does the ministry have an "updated" version-considerate of expressed concerns? I am made to understand that a Bill's mover (who in this case is the Minister) is allowed to amend it anytime.
This also would not only help us know where our concerns lay but it would also help us take informed engagements with the Energy and Communications Committee.
I request for this information in view of your emailed informative note advising stakeholders on the law making processes, advising on the steps, when and where to engaging parliamentary committees in the process.
Hope to hear from you.
Sincerely,
Alex
--- Brian Longwe wrote:
Thank you very much Bw. Ndemo for this clear, concise and very practical reminder of our legislative process (it's amazing how quickly we forget the stuff we learnt in pri/sec school)!
Rgds,
Brian
On Aug 14, 2007, at 1:41 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Rebecca, I did not want to comment on the Demo but I think
misled here. What is the reasoning behind the Demo when the Government has made it clear that the issue shall be looked at? We delivered on all promises we made to the stakeholders and those who bothered to read and seek dialog. I think by resorting into mob
eroding the confidence and and trust that we have built over the past view years.
Since we have another bill coming, I have decided to present the lessons learnt (attached) from the Media Bill to avoid such situation in the ICT Bill. It is important that we all understand the legislative process in Kenya and it is only by making decisions based on knowledge that we can develop a civilized nation.
Regards
Bitange Ndemo.
in case yhou support journalists... Hi all. This is to inform you that we have already notified the police that we shall be holding a peaceful procession as indicated in Mbaus email. We have also dispatched a letter to the AG asking him or his representative to wait for our petition on the appointed date. Please send this message to as many journalists as you can. Thank you. _____________________________________________ From: Samuel Mbau Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 12:23 PM To: Julius Bosire; Owino Opondo; Editorial Cc: Business Daily; Easy FM; eam; NTV News Subject: SILENT DEMO
Dear journalist, The contentious clause 38 (4) in the Media Bill states: "When a story includes unnamed parties who are not disclosed and the same becomes the subject of a legal tussle as to who is meant, then the editor shall be obligated to disclose the identity of the party or parties referred to." As members of the Fourth Estate who take it upon ourselves to fight for the rights of others, we simply cannot afford to sit down and do nothing while our own rights and a basic tenets of our
stake. The Silent Demo is on! The Silent Demonstration will take place on Wednesday August 15, with the blessings and the support from the majority of media houses and associations as well as myriads of well wishers. We shall assemble 8:30am at Freedom Corner at Uhuru Park. We will then march to the AGs Chambers (via Kenyatta Ave- Moi Ave- Harambee Ave) where we will present a petition to the chief legal adviser to the Government and ask him to advise the President against signing the proposed law. We shall then proceed to march around Parliament two times before breaking the demo at Freedom corner. The whole
about two hours maximum. The demo is silent for there will be no chanting nor singing. We will actually be quiet through out the march and our mouths gagged with black cloth or duct tape. We can also adorn black scarves, head bands or arm bands. So please bring along a gag, dress in your organisations branded wear [if available], AND remember to put on some comfortable walking shoes. We are looking forward to your participation and your organisations support as we SILENCE this bad law. NB: Watch out for a spectacular media showing on that day. Standing as one, Inter-media committee
DISCLAIMER: The information contained in or accompanying this e- mail is intended for the use of the stated recipient only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of
the public is being psychology you risk profession are at programme should take this message if
you are not the intended recipient. Any views or opinions presented herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Nation Media Group.
Tel. 254 720 318 925
blog:http://beckyit.blogspot.com/
--------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: benmakai@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/benmakai%40yahoo.com Benjamin Makai Tel: 254-722-540641 P.O. Box 8608, 00300, Nairobi, Kenya --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
Good effort bwana Ndemo, Alex i bet you understand how our legislators operate take it easy on bwana Ndemo, bwana Ps try your level best to ensure that Stakeholder expectations are met, so far i guess you deserve a pat Regards On 8/16/07, Benjamin Makai <benmakai@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dr.Ndemo This information is very necessary and important. Kindly could you also outline to the level or rather phases pertaining the same sir.
This gives us the the auditable elements of the process for the few whom may not be aware of the process and yet they may want to shout loundest..
All is about the welfare of our countr y(personal sentiments and not about who shouts loundest and in some situations or least solutions. ICT is all bout solutions and world wide tested and proven best practices)
Regards
*bitange@jambo.co.ke* wrote:
Dear Alex, I tried to explain how parliament works earlier in the week. We cannot revise the bill here. We have taken the proposals to the committee for consideration.
Luckily today the committee sumoned me to parliament. They want to have a stakeholder's meeting either on Tuesady or Thursday next week in Mombasa. I shall confirm this to you tomorrow. Any changes now must go through the committee since the bill belongs to parliament. You have this window to make the necessary changes. The safari Park proposals are already with them but they may decide that they do not want to include them. This is where we need the stakeholders to push.
I hope you do not leave this window of opportunity to pass and blame us later.
Regards
Ndemo.
Dr. Ndemo,
You invited us to Safari Park Hotel and on information and belief, we were coming to meet the Parliament Committee. We understood your at the venue explanation why they could not come.
However,
Would you be in a position to inform stakeholders what to expect of our Safari Park contributions on the Kenya Communications Amendment Bill 2007? i.e. does the ministry have an "updated" version-considerate of expressed concerns? I am made to understand that a Bill's mover (who in this case is the Minister) is allowed to amend it anytime.
This also would not only help us know where our concerns lay but it would also help us take informed engagements with the Energy and Communications Committee.
I request for this information in view of your emailed informative note advising stakeholders on the law making processes, advising on the steps, when and where to engaging parliamentary committees in the process.
Hope to hear from you.
Sincerely,
Alex
--- Brian Longwe wrote:
Thank you very much Bw. Ndemo for this clear, concise and very practical reminder of our legislative process (it's amazing how quickly we forget the stuff we learnt in pri/sec school)!
Rgds,
Brian
On Aug 14, 2007, at 1:41 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Rebecca, I did not want to comment on the Demo but I think
misled here. What is the reasoning behind the Demo when the Government has made it clear that the issue shall be looked at? We delivered on all promises we made to the stakeholders and those who bothered to read and seek dialog. I think by resorting into mob
eroding the confidence and and trust that we have built over the past view years.
Since we have another bill coming, I have decided to present the lessons learnt (attached) from the Media Bill to avoid such situation in the ICT Bill. It is important that we all understand the legislative process in Kenya and it is only by making decisions based on knowledge that we can develop a civilized nation.
Regards
Bitange Ndemo.
in case yhou support journalists... Hi all. This is to inform you that we have already notified the police that we shall be holding a peaceful procession as indicated in Mbau's email. We have also dispatched a letter to the AG asking him or his representative to wait for our petition on the appointed date. Please send this message to as many journalists as you can. Thank you. _____________________________________________ From: Samuel Mbau Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 12:23 PM To: Julius Bosire; Owino Opondo; Editorial Cc: Business Daily; Easy FM; eam; NTV News Subject: SILENT DEMO
Dear journalist, The contentious clause 38 (4) in the Media Bill states: "When a story includes unnamed parties who are not disclosed and the same becomes the subject of a legal tussle as to who is meant, then the editor shall be obligated to disclose the identity of the party or parties referred to." As members of the Fourth Estate who take it upon ourselves to fight for the rights of others, we simply cannot afford to sit down and do nothing while our own rights and a basic tenets of our
stake. The Silent Demo is on! The ''Silent Demonstration'' will take place on Wednesday August 15, with the blessings and the support from the majority of media houses and associations as well as myriads of well wishers. We shall assemble 8:30am at Freedom Corner at Uhuru Park. We will then march to the AG's Chambers (via Kenyatta Ave- Moi Ave- Harambee Ave) where we will present a petition to the chief legal adviser to the Government and ask him to advise the President against signing the proposed law. We shall then proceed to march around Parliament two times before breaking the demo at Freedom corner. The whole
about two hours maximum. The demo is silent for there will be no chanting nor singing. We will actually be quiet through out the march and our mouths gagged with black cloth or duct tape. We can also adorn black scarves, head bands or arm bands. So please bring along a gag, dress in your organisation's branded wear [if available], AND remember to put on some comfortable walking shoes. We are looking forward to your participation and your organisation's support as we SILENCE this bad law. NB: Watch out for a spectacular media showing on that day. Standing as one, Inter-media committee
DISCLAIMER: The information contained in or accompanying this e- mail is intended for the use of the stated recipient only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of
the public is being psychology you risk profession are at programme should take this message if
you are not the intended recipient. Any views or opinions presented herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Nation Media Group.
Tel. 254 720 318 925
blog:http://beckyit.blogspot.com/
--------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
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Benjamin Makai Tel: 254-722-540641 P.O. Box 8608, 00300, Nairobi, Kenya
------------------------------ Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48220/*http://tv.yahoo.com/>on Yahoo! TV.
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-- Barrack O. Otieno Project Discovery P.o. Box 21386 Nairobi 00100 Tel: +254721325277 +254726544442 +254733229925 http://projectdiscovery.or.ke
Barrack, My apologies if I appeared to harass the Permanent Secretary. The gist of my, I believe justified, request for information was to know the fate of our Safari Park contributions considering that the expected legislators could not come because of said Parlimentary Procedures. I needed to know whether we should assume that those contributions we made needed to be repeated should an opportunity to meet with the Committee present itself especially if the ministry could not incorporate them. I interpret Dr. Ndemo's advice as "they have them, because we gave them but now lobby hard yourselves to ensure your interests are captured" I am sufficiently pleased with his reply, his voluntary additional information, and await confirmation on how the committee sees best fit to receive any outstanding stakeholders' concerns on the bill as promised today. Please understand that I consider myself of the issue focussed, not the person, nature and I would seriously err to substitute any clause, error, commission, or omission with "Bitange Ndemo":) Have a laughly day! Alex --- Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Good effort bwana Ndemo, Alex i bet you understand how our legislators operate take it easy on bwana Ndemo, bwana Ps try your level best to ensure that Stakeholder expectations are met, so far i guess you deserve a pat Regards
On 8/16/07, Benjamin Makai <benmakai@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dr.Ndemo This information is very necessary and important.
outline to the level or rather phases pertaining
Kindly could you also the same sir.
This gives us the the auditable elements of the
may not be aware of the process and yet they may want to shout loundest..
All is about the welfare of our countr y(personal sentiments and not about who shouts loundest and in some situations or least solutions. ICT is all bout solutions and world wide tested and proven best practices)
Regards
*bitange@jambo.co.ke* wrote:
Dear Alex, I tried to explain how parliament works earlier in
revise the bill here. We have taken the proposals to the committee for consideration.
Luckily today the committee sumoned me to
stakeholder's meeting either on Tuesady or Thursday next week in Mombasa. I shall confirm this to you tomorrow. Any changes now must go through the committee since the bill belongs to parliament. You have this window to make the necessary changes. The safari Park
them but they may decide that they do not want to include them. This is where we need the stakeholders to push.
I hope you do not leave this window of opportunity to pass and blame us later.
Regards
Ndemo.
Dr. Ndemo,
You invited us to Safari Park Hotel and on information and belief, we were coming to meet the Parliament Committee. We understood your at the venue explanation why they could not come.
However,
Would you be in a position to inform stakeholders what to expect of our Safari Park contributions on
Kenya Communications Amendment Bill 2007? i.e. does the ministry have an "updated" version-considerate of expressed concerns? I am made to understand that a Bill's mover (who in this case is the Minister) is allowed to amend it anytime.
This also would not only help us know where our concerns lay but it would also help us take informed engagements with the Energy and Communications Committee.
I request for this information in view of your emailed informative note advising stakeholders on the law making processes, advising on the steps, when and where to engaging parliamentary committees in
process.
Hope to hear from you.
Sincerely,
Alex
--- Brian Longwe wrote:
Thank you very much Bw. Ndemo for this clear, concise and very practical reminder of our legislative process (it's amazing how quickly we forget the stuff we learnt in
school)!
Rgds,
Brian
On Aug 14, 2007, at 1:41 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Rebecca, I did not want to comment on the Demo but I
the public is being
misled here. What is the reasoning behind the Demo when the Government has made it clear that the issue shall be looked at? We delivered on all promises we made to the stakeholders and
and seek dialog. I think by resorting into mob
bothered to read psychology you risk
eroding the confidence and and trust that we have built over the past view years.
Since we have another bill coming, I have decided to present the lessons learnt (attached) from the Media Bill to avoid such situation in the ICT Bill. It is important that we all understand
legislative
process in Kenya and it is only by making decisions
process for the few whom the week. We cannot parliament. They want to have a proposals are already with the the pri/sec think those who the based on
knowledge that we
can develop a civilized nation.
Regards
Bitange Ndemo.
in case yhou support journalists... Hi all. This is to inform you that we have already notified the police that we shall be holding a peaceful procession as indicated in Mbau's email. We have also dispatched a letter to the AG asking him or his
=== message truncated ===> _______________________________________________
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http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at
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____________________________________________________________________________________ Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
Thanks Alex i appreciate your response your arguments are valid though On 8/17/07, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
Barrack,
My apologies if I appeared to harass the Permanent Secretary. The gist of my, I believe justified, request for information was to know the fate of our Safari Park contributions considering that the expected legislators could not come because of said Parlimentary Procedures.
I needed to know whether we should assume that those contributions we made needed to be repeated should an opportunity to meet with the Committee present itself especially if the ministry could not incorporate them.
I interpret Dr. Ndemo's advice as "they have them, because we gave them but now lobby hard yourselves to ensure your interests are captured"
I am sufficiently pleased with his reply, his voluntary additional information, and await confirmation on how the committee sees best fit to receive any outstanding stakeholders' concerns on the bill as promised today.
Please understand that I consider myself of the issue focussed, not the person, nature and I would seriously err to substitute any clause, error, commission, or omission with "Bitange Ndemo":)
Have a laughly day!
Alex
--- Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Good effort bwana Ndemo, Alex i bet you understand how our legislators operate take it easy on bwana Ndemo, bwana Ps try your level best to ensure that Stakeholder expectations are met, so far i guess you deserve a pat Regards
On 8/16/07, Benjamin Makai <benmakai@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dr.Ndemo This information is very necessary and important.
outline to the level or rather phases pertaining
Kindly could you also the same sir.
This gives us the the auditable elements of the
may not be aware of the process and yet they may want to shout loundest..
All is about the welfare of our countr y(personal sentiments and not about who shouts loundest and in some situations or least solutions. ICT is all bout solutions and world wide tested and proven best practices)
Regards
*bitange@jambo.co.ke* wrote:
Dear Alex, I tried to explain how parliament works earlier in
revise the bill here. We have taken the proposals to the committee for consideration.
Luckily today the committee sumoned me to
stakeholder's meeting either on Tuesady or Thursday next week in Mombasa. I shall confirm this to you tomorrow. Any changes now must go through the committee since the bill belongs to parliament. You have this window to make the necessary changes. The safari Park
them but they may decide that they do not want to include them. This is where we need the stakeholders to push.
I hope you do not leave this window of opportunity to pass and blame us later.
Regards
Ndemo.
Dr. Ndemo,
You invited us to Safari Park Hotel and on information and belief, we were coming to meet the Parliament Committee. We understood your at the venue explanation why they could not come.
However,
Would you be in a position to inform stakeholders what to expect of our Safari Park contributions on
Kenya Communications Amendment Bill 2007? i.e. does the ministry have an "updated" version-considerate of expressed concerns? I am made to understand that a Bill's mover (who in this case is the Minister) is allowed to amend it anytime.
This also would not only help us know where our concerns lay but it would also help us take informed engagements with the Energy and Communications Committee.
I request for this information in view of your emailed informative note advising stakeholders on the law making processes, advising on the steps, when and where to engaging parliamentary committees in
process.
Hope to hear from you.
Sincerely,
Alex
--- Brian Longwe wrote:
Thank you very much Bw. Ndemo for this clear, concise and very practical reminder of our legislative process (it's amazing how quickly we forget the stuff we learnt in
school)!
Rgds,
Brian
On Aug 14, 2007, at 1:41 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Rebecca, I did not want to comment on the Demo but I
the public is being
misled here. What is the reasoning behind the Demo when the Government has made it clear that the issue shall be looked at? We delivered on all promises we made to the stakeholders and
and seek dialog. I think by resorting into mob
bothered to read psychology you risk
eroding the confidence and and trust that we have built over the past view years.
Since we have another bill coming, I have decided to present the lessons learnt (attached) from the Media Bill to avoid such situation in the ICT Bill. It is important that we all understand
legislative
process in Kenya and it is only by making decisions
process for the few whom the week. We cannot parliament. They want to have a proposals are already with the the pri/sec think those who the based on
knowledge that we
can develop a civilized nation.
Regards
Bitange Ndemo.
> in case yhou support journalists... > Hi all. > This is to inform you that we have already notified the police > that we > shall be holding a peaceful procession as indicated in Mbau's > email. We > have also dispatched a letter to the AG asking him or his
=== message truncated ===> _______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alex.gakuru%40yahoo.com
____________________________________________________________________________________ Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
-- Barrack O. Otieno Project Discovery P.o. Box 21386 Nairobi 00100 Tel: +254721325277 +254726544442 +254733229925 http://projectdiscovery.or.ke
May I suggest we ask Eng. Rege to help diffuse ICT tensions now bottling up? Borrow his experince on dealing with government, stakeholders, steakholders, and others? Just thinking aloud and welcome comments. Alex --- Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Alex i appreciate your response your arguments are valid though
Barrack,
My apologies if I appeared to harass the Permanent Secretary. The gist of my, I believe justified, request for information was to know the fate of our Safari Park contributions considering that the expected legislators could not come because of said Parlimentary Procedures.
I needed to know whether we should assume that
contributions we made needed to be repeated should an opportunity to meet with the Committee present itself especially if the ministry could not incorporate
On 8/17/07, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote: those them.
I interpret Dr. Ndemo's advice as "they have them, because we gave them but now lobby hard yourselves
ensure your interests are captured"
I am sufficiently pleased with his reply, his voluntary additional information, and await confirmation on how the committee sees best fit to receive any outstanding stakeholders' concerns on the bill as promised today.
Please understand that I consider myself of the issue focussed, not the person, nature and I would seriously err to substitute any clause, error, commission, or omission with "Bitange Ndemo":)
Have a laughly day!
Alex
--- Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Good effort bwana Ndemo, Alex i bet you understand how our legislators operate take it easy on bwana Ndemo, bwana Ps
your level best to ensure that Stakeholder expectations are met, so far i guess you deserve a pat Regards
On 8/16/07, Benjamin Makai <benmakai@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dr.Ndemo This information is very necessary and
important. Kindly could you also
outline to the level or rather phases
the same sir.
This gives us the the auditable elements of
process for the few whom
may not be aware of the process and yet they may want to shout loundest..
All is about the welfare of our countr y(personal sentiments and not about who shouts loundest and in some situations or least solutions. ICT is all bout solutions and world wide tested and
best practices)
Regards
*bitange@jambo.co.ke* wrote:
Dear Alex, I tried to explain how parliament works
earlier in the week. We cannot
revise the bill here. We have taken the
consideration.
Luckily today the committee sumoned me to
to the committee for parliament. They want to have a
stakeholder's meeting either on Tuesady or Thursday next week in Mombasa. I shall confirm this to you tomorrow. Any changes now must go through the committee since the bill belongs to
make the necessary changes. The safari Park
them but they may decide that they do not want to include them. This is where we need the stakeholders to push.
I hope you do not leave this window of opportunity to pass and blame us later.
Regards
Ndemo.
Dr. Ndemo,
You invited us to Safari Park Hotel and on information and belief, we were coming to meet the Parliament Committee. We understood your at the venue explanation why they could not come.
However,
Would you be in a position to inform stakeholders what to expect of our Safari Park contributions on
You have this window to proposals are already with the
Kenya Communications Amendment Bill 2007? i.e. does the ministry have an "updated" version-considerate of expressed concerns? I am made to understand
a
Bill's mover (who in this case is the Minister) is allowed to amend it anytime.
This also would not only help us know where our concerns lay but it would also help us take informed engagements with the Energy and Communications Committee.
I request for this information in view of your emailed informative note advising stakeholders on
making processes, advising on the steps, when and where to engaging parliamentary committees in
law the
process.
Hope to hear from you.
Sincerely,
Alex
--- Brian Longwe wrote:
Thank you very much Bw. Ndemo for this clear, concise and very practical reminder of our legislative
to try pertaining the proven proposals parliament. that the process
=== message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
Dear Alex, There is no crisis or tension in the ICT legislative process. I was pointing out the opportunities that are available to you in ensuring that the piece of legislation you want is passed. As far as I am concerned all of us have representation in parliament and we should utilize that opportunity instead of blaming the Government. The Safari Park proposals shall be given to the MPs. The Thursday date was set anticipating that parliament will go on recess. Now that they are not going on recess, they have proposed August 30th and 31st. We are looking for resources for a venue in Mombasa and shall revert to you. Regards Bitange.
May I suggest we ask Eng. Rege to help diffuse ICT tensions now bottling up? Borrow his experince on dealing with government, stakeholders, steakholders, and others? Just thinking aloud and welcome comments.
Alex
--- Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Alex i appreciate your response your arguments are valid though
Barrack,
My apologies if I appeared to harass the Permanent Secretary. The gist of my, I believe justified, request for information was to know the fate of our Safari Park contributions considering that the expected legislators could not come because of said Parlimentary Procedures.
I needed to know whether we should assume that
contributions we made needed to be repeated should an opportunity to meet with the Committee present itself especially if the ministry could not incorporate
On 8/17/07, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote: those them.
I interpret Dr. Ndemo's advice as "they have them, because we gave them but now lobby hard yourselves
ensure your interests are captured"
I am sufficiently pleased with his reply, his voluntary additional information, and await confirmation on how the committee sees best fit to receive any outstanding stakeholders' concerns on the bill as promised today.
Please understand that I consider myself of the issue focussed, not the person, nature and I would seriously err to substitute any clause, error, commission, or omission with "Bitange Ndemo":)
Have a laughly day!
Alex
--- Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Good effort bwana Ndemo, Alex i bet you understand how our legislators operate take it easy on bwana Ndemo, bwana Ps
your level best to ensure that Stakeholder expectations are met, so far i guess you deserve a pat Regards
On 8/16/07, Benjamin Makai <benmakai@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dr.Ndemo This information is very necessary and
important. Kindly could you also
outline to the level or rather phases
the same sir.
This gives us the the auditable elements of
process for the few whom
may not be aware of the process and yet they may want to shout loundest..
All is about the welfare of our countr y(personal sentiments and not about who shouts loundest and in some situations or least solutions. ICT is all bout solutions and world wide tested and
best practices)
Regards
*bitange@jambo.co.ke* wrote:
Dear Alex, I tried to explain how parliament works
earlier in the week. We cannot
revise the bill here. We have taken the
consideration.
Luckily today the committee sumoned me to
to the committee for parliament. They want to have a
stakeholder's meeting either on Tuesady or Thursday next week in Mombasa. I shall confirm this to you tomorrow. Any changes now must go through the committee since the bill belongs to
make the necessary changes. The safari Park
them but they may decide that they do not want to include them. This is where we need the stakeholders to push.
I hope you do not leave this window of opportunity to pass and blame us later.
Regards
Ndemo.
Dr. Ndemo,
You invited us to Safari Park Hotel and on information and belief, we were coming to meet the Parliament Committee. We understood your at the venue explanation why they could not come.
However,
Would you be in a position to inform stakeholders what to expect of our Safari Park contributions on
You have this window to proposals are already with the
Kenya Communications Amendment Bill 2007? i.e. does the ministry have an "updated" version-considerate of expressed concerns? I am made to understand
a
Bill's mover (who in this case is the Minister) is allowed to amend it anytime.
This also would not only help us know where our concerns lay but it would also help us take informed engagements with the Energy and Communications Committee.
I request for this information in view of your emailed informative note advising stakeholders on
making processes, advising on the steps, when and where to engaging parliamentary committees in
law the
process.
Hope to hear from you.
Sincerely,
Alex
--- Brian Longwe wrote:
> Thank you very much Bw. Ndemo for this clear, > concise and very > practical reminder of our legislative
to try pertaining the proven proposals parliament. that the process
=== message truncated ===
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Dear Dr. Ndemo, It is terrible the media called a dog! but thank you very much for easing the weight of responsibility... http://www.isoc.or.ke Certainly, I would really appreciate if my full confidence were restored considering frighteningly it appears communication is under attack across Africa: The New Struggle for Press Freedom in Africa http://allafrica.com/stories/200708201115.html and stories like "Botswana, Kenya and Zimbabwe pass tyrannical Bills" http://www.eastandard.net/archives/index.php?mnu=details&id=1143973075&catid=4 I trust you understand why I have to stay put regarding the Communication Amendment Bill - concerned because since March 2006, the top five most popular Ethiopian web sites (including CyberEthiopia) and several blogs have been blocked and are inaccessible across Ethiopia. The apparent objective is to prevent the dissemination of information that is critical of the current regime. See http://www.cyberethiopia.com/net/docs/internet_repression_in_ethiopia.html RSF had also reported the censorship along with other media watchdogs and had called on the relevant ministries in Ethiopia, but no reaction so far. http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=17783 I am only afraid that foreign companies may not trust their outsourcing to our entrepreneurs if only and just government were remotely perceived "packet sniffing" regime. I have no doubt all of us in Kenya wish nothing came in our way of vision 2030. Lord forbid but should Kenya sink, we all go under and I want to stay afloat with my head above the water for a long time. Regards, Alex --- bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Dear Alex, There is no crisis or tension in the ICT legislative process. I was pointing out the opportunities that are available to you in ensuring that the piece of legislation you want is passed. As far as I am concerned all of us have representation in parliament and we should utilize that opportunity instead of blaming the Government.
The Safari Park proposals shall be given to the MPs. The Thursday date was set anticipating that parliament will go on recess. Now that they are not going on recess, they have proposed August 30th and 31st. We are looking for resources for a venue in Mombasa and shall revert to you.
Regards
Bitange.
May I suggest we ask Eng. Rege to help diffuse ICT tensions now bottling up? Borrow his experince on dealing with government, stakeholders, steakholders, and others? Just thinking aloud and welcome comments.
Alex
--- Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Alex i appreciate your response your arguments are valid though
Barrack,
My apologies if I appeared to harass the Permanent Secretary. The gist of my, I believe justified, request for information was to know the fate of our Safari Park contributions considering that the expected legislators could not come because of said Parlimentary Procedures.
I needed to know whether we should assume that
contributions we made needed to be repeated should an opportunity to meet with the Committee present itself especially if the ministry could not incorporate
On 8/17/07, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote: those them.
I interpret Dr. Ndemo's advice as "they have
because we gave them but now lobby hard yourselves to ensure your interests are captured"
I am sufficiently pleased with his reply, his voluntary additional information, and await confirmation on how the committee sees best fit to receive any outstanding stakeholders' concerns on the bill as promised today.
Please understand that I consider myself of the issue focussed, not the person, nature and I would seriously err to substitute any clause, error, commission, or omission with "Bitange Ndemo":)
Have a laughly day!
Alex
--- Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Good effort bwana Ndemo, Alex i bet you understand how our legislators operate take it easy on bwana Ndemo, bwana Ps
your level best to ensure that Stakeholder expectations are met, so far i guess you deserve a pat Regards
On 8/16/07, Benjamin Makai <benmakai@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dr.Ndemo This information is very necessary and
important. Kindly could you also
outline to the level or rather phases
the same sir.
This gives us the the auditable elements of
process for the few whom
may not be aware of the process and yet
want to shout loundest..
All is about the welfare of our countr
y(personal sentiments and not about
who shouts loundest and in some situations or least solutions. ICT is all bout solutions and world wide tested and
best practices)
Regards
*bitange@jambo.co.ke* wrote:
Dear Alex, I tried to explain how parliament works
earlier in the week. We cannot
revise the bill here. We have taken the
consideration.
Luckily today the committee sumoned me to
to the committee for parliament. They want to have a
stakeholder's meeting either on Tuesady or Thursday next week in Mombasa. I shall confirm this to you tomorrow. Any changes now must go through the committee since the bill belongs to
them, try pertaining the they may proven proposals parliament.
make the necessary changes. The safari Park
You have this window to proposals are already with
them but they may decide that they do not want to include them. This is where we need the stakeholders to push.
I hope you do not leave this window of opportunity to pass and blame us later.
Regards
Ndemo.
> Dr. Ndemo, > > You invited us to Safari Park Hotel and on information > and belief, we were coming to meet the Parliament > Committee. We understood your at the venue explanation > why they could not come.
=== message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
SMS is not allowed in Ethiopia - let alone media freedom or conducive legislation ..... it is not fair to compare a country with such advanced civil liberties as Kenya with a dictatorial regime. It is also important to look at the other side of the coin and challenge/question our media as to why they would want to blacken our country's good record and reputation on the international arena. Please be assured that we have enemies who would use any means to make us look bad ..... don't take anything that appears in print as gospel ...... 'nuff said, Brian On Aug 20, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Alex Gakuru wrote:
Dear Dr. Ndemo,
It is terrible the media called a dog! but thank you very much for easing the weight of responsibility...
Certainly, I would really appreciate if my full confidence were restored considering frighteningly it appears communication is under attack across Africa: The New Struggle for Press Freedom in Africa http://allafrica.com/stories/200708201115.html and stories like "Botswana, Kenya and Zimbabwe pass tyrannical Bills" http://www.eastandard.net/archives/index.php? mnu=details&id=1143973075&catid=4
I trust you understand why I have to stay put regarding the Communication Amendment Bill - concerned because since March 2006, the top five most popular Ethiopian web sites (including CyberEthiopia) and several blogs have been blocked and are inaccessible across Ethiopia. The apparent objective is to prevent the dissemination of information that is critical of the current regime.
See http://www.cyberethiopia.com/net/docs/ internet_repression_in_ethiopia.html
RSF had also reported the censorship along with other media watchdogs and had called on the relevant ministries in Ethiopia, but no reaction so far. http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=17783
I am only afraid that foreign companies may not trust their outsourcing to our entrepreneurs if only and just government were remotely perceived "packet sniffing" regime. I have no doubt all of us in Kenya wish nothing came in our way of vision 2030.
Lord forbid but should Kenya sink, we all go under and I want to stay afloat with my head above the water for a long time.
Regards,
Alex
--- bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Dear Alex, There is no crisis or tension in the ICT legislative process. I was pointing out the opportunities that are available to you in ensuring that the piece of legislation you want is passed. As far as I am concerned all of us have representation in parliament and we should utilize that opportunity instead of blaming the Government.
The Safari Park proposals shall be given to the MPs. The Thursday date was set anticipating that parliament will go on recess. Now that they are not going on recess, they have proposed August 30th and 31st. We are looking for resources for a venue in Mombasa and shall revert to you.
Regards
Bitange.
May I suggest we ask Eng. Rege to help diffuse ICT tensions now bottling up? Borrow his experince on dealing with government, stakeholders, steakholders, and others? Just thinking aloud and welcome comments.
Alex
--- Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Alex i appreciate your response your arguments are valid though
Barrack,
My apologies if I appeared to harass the Permanent Secretary. The gist of my, I believe justified, request for information was to know the fate of our Safari Park contributions considering that the expected legislators could not come because of said Parlimentary Procedures.
I needed to know whether we should assume that
contributions we made needed to be repeated should an opportunity to meet with the Committee present itself especially if the ministry could not incorporate
On 8/17/07, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote: those them.
I interpret Dr. Ndemo's advice as "they have
because we gave them but now lobby hard yourselves to ensure your interests are captured"
I am sufficiently pleased with his reply, his voluntary additional information, and await confirmation on how the committee sees best fit to receive any outstanding stakeholders' concerns on the bill as promised today.
Please understand that I consider myself of the issue focussed, not the person, nature and I would seriously err to substitute any clause, error, commission, or omission with "Bitange Ndemo":)
Have a laughly day!
Alex
--- Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Good effort bwana Ndemo, Alex i bet you understand how our legislators operate take it easy on bwana Ndemo, bwana Ps
your level best to ensure that Stakeholder expectations are met, so far i guess you deserve a pat Regards
On 8/16/07, Benjamin Makai <benmakai@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Dr.Ndemo > This information is very necessary and important. Kindly could you also > outline to the level or rather phases
the same sir. > > This gives us the the auditable elements of
process for the few whom > may not be aware of the process and yet
want to shout loundest.. > > > > All is about the welfare of our countr y(personal sentiments and not about > who shouts loundest and in some situations or least solutions. ICT is all > bout solutions and world wide tested and
best practices) > > Regards > > > *bitange@jambo.co.ke* wrote: > > Dear Alex, > I tried to explain how parliament works earlier in the week. We cannot > revise the bill here. We have taken the
to the committee for > consideration. > > Luckily today the committee sumoned me to parliament. They want to have a > stakeholder's meeting either on Tuesady or Thursday next week in Mombasa. > I shall confirm this to you tomorrow. Any changes now must go through the > committee since the bill belongs to
them, try pertaining the they may proven proposals parliament.
You have this window to > make the necessary changes. The safari Park proposals are already with > them but they may decide that they do not want to include them. This is > where we need the stakeholders to push. > > I hope you do not leave this window of opportunity to pass and blame us > later. > > > Regards > > > Ndemo. > > > > >> Dr. Ndemo, >> >> You invited us to Safari Park Hotel and on information >> and belief, we were coming to meet the Parliament >> Committee. We understood your at the venue explanation >> why they could not come.
=== message truncated ===
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I disagree with Sam Vaknin's arguments "Regulate the Internet!" "It is time for legislators and regulators to step in. Even a moderate dose of legislation and the willingness not to succumb to either to mob or to business pressures will go a long way towards restoring the Internet to its original purpose: the civilized and lawful - not to mention pleasurable - exchange of information and opinion over computer networks." http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=34976 But Greek and Latin owe their humbling philosophical esteem to regard, value, and placing the essence of a good debate far above time-tied points of view. Thus, I am happy in Kenya recently I attended a meeting only to find all asked to satisfactorily justify their support of THE OPPOSITE point of view. How clever of them.... "Democracy is hard, perhaps the most complex and difficult of all forms of government. It is filled with tensions and contradictions, and requires that its members labor diligently to make it work. Democracy is not designed for efficiency, but for accountability; a democratic government may not be able to act as quickly as a dictatorship, but once committed to a course of action it can draw upon deep wellsprings of popular support," http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/democracy/ This is the space all citizens are obliged to aggressively defend and not so quickly entrust it to powerful government leaders submerged in own interests. Let's debate some more Brian! --- Brian Longwe <brian@isisweb.nl> wrote:
SMS is not allowed in Ethiopia - let alone media freedom or conducive legislation ..... it is not fair to compare a country with such advanced civil liberties as Kenya with a dictatorial regime.
It is also important to look at the other side of the coin and challenge/question our media as to why they would want to blacken our country's good record and reputation on the international arena. Please be assured that we have enemies who would use any means to make us look bad ..... don't take anything that appears in print as gospel ......
'nuff said,
Brian
On Aug 20, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Alex Gakuru wrote:
Dear Dr. Ndemo,
It is terrible the media called a dog! but thank you very much for easing the weight of responsibility...
Certainly, I would really appreciate if my full confidence were restored considering frighteningly it appears communication is under attack across Africa: The New Struggle for Press Freedom in Africa http://allafrica.com/stories/200708201115.html and stories like "Botswana, Kenya and Zimbabwe pass tyrannical Bills" http://www.eastandard.net/archives/index.php? mnu=details&id=1143973075&catid=4
I trust you understand why I have to stay put regarding the Communication Amendment Bill - concerned because since March 2006, the top five most popular Ethiopian web sites (including CyberEthiopia) and several blogs have been blocked and are inaccessible across Ethiopia. The apparent objective is to prevent the dissemination of information that is critical of the current regime.
See http://www.cyberethiopia.com/net/docs/ internet_repression_in_ethiopia.html
RSF had also reported the censorship along with other media watchdogs and had called on the relevant ministries in Ethiopia, but no reaction so far. http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=17783
I am only afraid that foreign companies may not trust their outsourcing to our entrepreneurs if only and just government were remotely perceived "packet sniffing" regime. I have no doubt all of us in Kenya wish nothing came in our way of vision 2030.
Lord forbid but should Kenya sink, we all go under and I want to stay afloat with my head above the water for a long time.
Regards,
Alex
--- bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Dear Alex, There is no crisis or tension in the ICT legislative process. I was pointing out the opportunities that are available to you in ensuring that the piece of legislation you want is passed. As far as I am concerned all of us have representation in parliament and we should utilize that opportunity instead of blaming the Government.
The Safari Park proposals shall be given to the MPs. The Thursday date was set anticipating that parliament will go on recess. Now that they are not going on recess, they have proposed August 30th and 31st. We are looking for resources for a venue in Mombasa and shall revert to you.
Regards
Bitange.
May I suggest we ask Eng. Rege to help diffuse ICT tensions now bottling up? Borrow his experince on dealing with government, stakeholders, steakholders, and others? Just thinking aloud and welcome comments.
Alex
--- Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Alex i appreciate your response your arguments are valid though
Barrack,
My apologies if I appeared to harass the Permanent Secretary. The gist of my, I believe justified, request for information was to know the fate of our Safari Park contributions considering that the expected legislators could not come because of said Parlimentary Procedures.
I needed to know whether we should assume that
contributions we made needed to be repeated should an opportunity to meet with the Committee present itself especially if the ministry could not incorporate
On 8/17/07, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote: those them.
I interpret Dr. Ndemo's advice as "they have
because we gave them but now lobby hard yourselves to ensure your interests are captured"
I am sufficiently pleased with his reply, his voluntary additional information, and await confirmation on how the committee sees best fit to receive any outstanding stakeholders' concerns on the bill as promised today.
Please understand that I consider myself of
them, the issue
focussed, not the person, nature and I would seriously err to substitute any clause, error, commission, or omission with "Bitange Ndemo":)
Have a laughly day!
Alex
--- Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
=== message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
Alex, For your information,the original Internet was not regulated. However, after commercialization in the early 1990's we see a lot of regulation, not by laws passed by legislators or regulators BUT by the "Codes"made by programmers who determine what you can or cannot do on the Internet. JN On 8/21/07, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
I disagree with Sam Vaknin's arguments "Regulate the Internet!"
"It is time for legislators and regulators to step in. Even a moderate dose of legislation and the willingness not to succumb to either to mob or to business pressures will go a long way towards restoring the Internet to its original purpose: the civilized and lawful - not to mention pleasurable - exchange of information and opinion over computer networks."
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=34976
But Greek and Latin owe their humbling philosophical esteem to regard, value, and placing the essence of a good debate far above time-tied points of view. Thus, I am happy in Kenya recently I attended a meeting only to find all asked to satisfactorily justify their support of THE OPPOSITE point of view. How clever of them....
"Democracy is hard, perhaps the most complex and difficult of all forms of government. It is filled with tensions and contradictions, and requires that its members labor diligently to make it work. Democracy is not designed for efficiency, but for accountability; a democratic government may not be able to act as quickly as a dictatorship, but once committed to a course of action it can draw upon deep wellsprings of popular support,"
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/democracy/
This is the space all citizens are obliged to aggressively defend and not so quickly entrust it to powerful government leaders submerged in own interests.
Let's debate some more Brian!
--- Brian Longwe <brian@isisweb.nl> wrote:
SMS is not allowed in Ethiopia - let alone media freedom or conducive legislation ..... it is not fair to compare a country with such advanced civil liberties as Kenya with a dictatorial regime.
It is also important to look at the other side of the coin and challenge/question our media as to why they would want to blacken our country's good record and reputation on the international arena. Please be assured that we have enemies who would use any means to make us look bad ..... don't take anything that appears in print as gospel ......
'nuff said,
Brian
On Aug 20, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Alex Gakuru wrote:
Dear Dr. Ndemo,
It is terrible the media called a dog! but thank you very much for easing the weight of responsibility...
Certainly, I would really appreciate if my full confidence were restored considering frighteningly it appears communication is under attack across Africa: The New Struggle for Press Freedom in Africa http://allafrica.com/stories/200708201115.html and stories like "Botswana, Kenya and Zimbabwe pass tyrannical Bills" http://www.eastandard.net/archives/index.php? mnu=details&id=1143973075&catid=4
I trust you understand why I have to stay put regarding the Communication Amendment Bill - concerned because since March 2006, the top five most popular Ethiopian web sites (including CyberEthiopia) and several blogs have been blocked and are inaccessible across Ethiopia. The apparent objective is to prevent the dissemination of information that is critical of the current regime.
See http://www.cyberethiopia.com/net/docs/ internet_repression_in_ethiopia.html
RSF had also reported the censorship along with other media watchdogs and had called on the relevant ministries in Ethiopia, but no reaction so far. http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=17783
I am only afraid that foreign companies may not trust their outsourcing to our entrepreneurs if only and just government were remotely perceived "packet sniffing" regime. I have no doubt all of us in Kenya wish nothing came in our way of vision 2030.
Lord forbid but should Kenya sink, we all go under and I want to stay afloat with my head above the water for a long time.
Regards,
Alex
--- bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Dear Alex, There is no crisis or tension in the ICT legislative process. I was pointing out the opportunities that are available to you in ensuring that the piece of legislation you want is passed. As far as I am concerned all of us have representation in parliament and we should utilize that opportunity instead of blaming the Government.
The Safari Park proposals shall be given to the MPs. The Thursday date was set anticipating that parliament will go on recess. Now that they are not going on recess, they have proposed August 30th and 31st. We are looking for resources for a venue in Mombasa and shall revert to you.
Regards
Bitange.
May I suggest we ask Eng. Rege to help diffuse ICT tensions now bottling up? Borrow his experince on dealing with government, stakeholders, steakholders, and others? Just thinking aloud and welcome comments.
Alex
--- Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Alex i appreciate your response your arguments are valid though
On 8/17/07, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote: > Barrack, > > My apologies if I appeared to harass the Permanent > Secretary. The gist of my, I believe justified, > request for information was to know the fate of our > Safari Park contributions considering that the > expected legislators could not come because of said > Parlimentary Procedures. > > I needed to know whether we should assume that those > contributions we made needed to be repeated should an > opportunity to meet with the Committee present itself > especially if the ministry could not incorporate them. > > I interpret Dr. Ndemo's advice as "they have them, > because we gave them but now lobby hard yourselves to > ensure your interests are captured" > > I am sufficiently pleased with his reply, his > voluntary additional information, and await > confirmation on how the committee sees best fit to > receive any outstanding stakeholders' concerns on > the bill as promised today. > > Please understand that I consider myself of the issue > focussed, not the person, nature and I would seriously > err to substitute any clause, error, commission, or > omission with "Bitange Ndemo":) > > Have a laughly day! > > Alex > > --- Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote: >
=== message truncated ===
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-- Eng.J.N. Kariuki, Tel.+254-20-2719953 P.O.Box 72748, NAIROBI 00200, KENYA e-mail: jnkariuki@gmail.com;John.Kariuki@ties.itu.int;kibubuti@yahoo.co.uk
Precisely! Why should the author conclude "It is time for legislators and regulators to step in." It smacks of a call for government net control while instead end users should continue developing their own codes to make the internet to grow. Q: Which Legislators? Kenya,EA,EU,Congress.. Q: Which Regulators? CCK, OfCOM, FCC.. The internet's success was based on the following reasons: "HISTORY: WE OWE IT ALL TO THE HIPPIES" 1. "Access to computers should be unlimited and total." 2. "All information should be free." 3. "Mistrust authority - promote decentralization." 4. "You can create art and beauty on a computer." 5. "Computers can change your life for the better." http://members.aye.net/~hippie/hippie/special_.htm The article to me sounds like building blocks justifying grounds from Mugabe's and the Chinese to censor internet and we all know the favourite entry points (separately below could also be one such) ---- Separately, http://www.bdafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2587&Itemid=5813 We note "Consumer Bill to boost online transactions" and welcome this government move. Our Consumers Association was not informed, or involved in the background policy formulation process if and/or when that took place. Further, the Bill is not listed at http://www.kenyalaw.org/Bills/ so I may not have specifics. Overall, our interpretation is that this Bill's intention is just similar to the Government's NGO Coordination Board that checks for CS registrations, etc. for govt - while the Civil Society have an own "industry" NGO Council that deals with their dear "end-user" (in this case ICT consumers) issues. KEBS-we have a BIG consumer issue on their "closed" endorsement of Microsoft-sponsored OOXML standard i.e. without open and wide industry consultations. If Ms Catherine Ngahu, were on this list perhaps she would have clarified apparently because Internet consumer protection stands out on the story. In principle, ICAK welcomes this bill, wishes later government appointees well and we hope to interact with them at a convenient moment in the future (after the bill is passed.) Thxs -- John Kariuki <jnkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Alex, For your information,the original Internet was not regulated. However, after commercialization in the early 1990's we see a lot of regulation, not by laws passed by legislators or regulators BUT by the "Codes"made by programmers who determine what you can or cannot do on the Internet.
JN
On 8/21/07, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
I disagree with Sam Vaknin's arguments "Regulate
Internet!"
"It is time for legislators and regulators to step in. Even a moderate dose of legislation and the willingness not to succumb to either to mob or to business pressures will go a long way towards restoring the Internet to its original purpose:
civilized and lawful - not to mention pleasurable
the the -
exchange of information and opinion over computer networks."
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=34976
But Greek and Latin owe their humbling
esteem to regard, value, and placing the essence of a good debate far above time-tied points of view. Thus, I am happy in Kenya recently I attended a meeting only to find all asked to satisfactorily justify their support of THE OPPOSITE point of view. How clever of them....
"Democracy is hard, perhaps the most complex and difficult of all forms of government. It is filled with tensions and contradictions, and requires
its members labor diligently to make it work. Democracy is not designed for efficiency, but for accountability; a democratic government may not be able to act as quickly as a dictatorship, but once committed to a course of action it can draw upon deep wellsprings of popular support,"
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/democracy/
This is the space all citizens are obliged to aggressively defend and not so quickly entrust it to powerful government leaders submerged in own interests.
Let's debate some more Brian!
--- Brian Longwe <brian@isisweb.nl> wrote:
SMS is not allowed in Ethiopia - let alone media freedom or conducive legislation ..... it is not fair to compare a country with such advanced civil liberties as Kenya with a dictatorial regime.
It is also important to look at the other side of the coin and challenge/question our media as to why they would want to blacken our country's good record and reputation on the international arena. Please be assured that we have enemies who would use any means to make us look bad ..... don't take anything that appears in print as gospel ......
'nuff said,
Brian
On Aug 20, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Alex Gakuru wrote:
Dear Dr. Ndemo,
It is terrible the media called a dog! but
you
very much for easing the weight of responsibility...
Certainly, I would really appreciate if my full confidence were restored considering frighteningly it appears communication is under attack across Africa: The New Struggle for Press Freedom in Africa http://allafrica.com/stories/200708201115.html and stories like "Botswana, Kenya and Zimbabwe
tyrannical Bills" http://www.eastandard.net/archives/index.php? mnu=details&id=1143973075&catid=4
I trust you understand why I have to stay put regarding the Communication Amendment Bill - concerned because since March 2006, the top five most popular Ethiopian web sites (including CyberEthiopia) and several blogs have been blocked and are inaccessible across Ethiopia. The apparent objective is to prevent the dissemination of information that is critical of the current regime.
See http://www.cyberethiopia.com/net/docs/ internet_repression_in_ethiopia.html
RSF had also reported the censorship along with other media watchdogs and had called on the relevant ministries in Ethiopia, but no reaction so far.
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=17783
I am only afraid that foreign companies may
not trust
their outsourcing to our entrepreneurs if only and just government were remotely perceived "packet sniffing" regime. I have no doubt all of us in Kenya wish nothing came in our way of vision
philosophical that thank pass 2030.
Lord forbid but should Kenya sink, we all go
under and
I want to stay afloat with my head above the water for a long time.
Regards,
Alex
--- bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Dear Alex, There is no crisis or tension in the ICT legislative process. I was pointing out the opportunities that are available to you in ensuring that the piece of legislation you want is passed. As far as I am concerned all of us have representation in parliament and we should utilize that opportunity instead of blaming the Government.
=== message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/
Alex, I wish that things were that simple. However, regulation by code raises very serious legal issues as it amounts to "privatisation of law making" but this is a subject of another day! On 8/22/07, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
Precisely! Why should the author conclude "It is time for legislators and regulators to step in." It smacks of a call for government net control while instead end users should continue developing their own codes to make the internet to grow.
Q: Which Legislators? Kenya,EA,EU,Congress.. Q: Which Regulators? CCK, OfCOM, FCC..
The internet's success was based on the following reasons: "HISTORY: WE OWE IT ALL TO THE HIPPIES"
1. "Access to computers should be unlimited and total." 2. "All information should be free." 3. "Mistrust authority - promote decentralization." 4. "You can create art and beauty on a computer." 5. "Computers can change your life for the better."
http://members.aye.net/~hippie/hippie/special_.htm
The article to me sounds like building blocks justifying grounds from Mugabe's and the Chinese to censor internet and we all know the favourite entry points (separately below could also be one such)
---- Separately,
http://www.bdafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2587&Itemid=5813 We note "Consumer Bill to boost online transactions" and welcome this government move.
Our Consumers Association was not informed, or involved in the background policy formulation process if and/or when that took place. Further, the Bill is not listed at http://www.kenyalaw.org/Bills/ so I may not have specifics.
Overall, our interpretation is that this Bill's intention is just similar to the Government's NGO Coordination Board that checks for CS registrations, etc. for govt - while the Civil Society have an own "industry" NGO Council that deals with their dear "end-user" (in this case ICT consumers) issues.
KEBS-we have a BIG consumer issue on their "closed" endorsement of Microsoft-sponsored OOXML standard i.e. without open and wide industry consultations.
If Ms Catherine Ngahu, were on this list perhaps she would have clarified apparently because Internet consumer protection stands out on the story.
In principle, ICAK welcomes this bill, wishes later government appointees well and we hope to interact with them at a convenient moment in the future (after the bill is passed.)
Thxs
-- John Kariuki <jnkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Alex, For your information,the original Internet was not regulated. However, after commercialization in the early 1990's we see a lot of regulation, not by laws passed by legislators or regulators BUT by the "Codes"made by programmers who determine what you can or cannot do on the Internet.
JN
On 8/21/07, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
I disagree with Sam Vaknin's arguments "Regulate
Internet!"
"It is time for legislators and regulators to step in. Even a moderate dose of legislation and the willingness not to succumb to either to mob or to business pressures will go a long way towards restoring the Internet to its original purpose:
civilized and lawful - not to mention pleasurable
the the -
exchange of information and opinion over computer networks."
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=34976
But Greek and Latin owe their humbling
esteem to regard, value, and placing the essence of a good debate far above time-tied points of view. Thus, I am happy in Kenya recently I attended a meeting only to find all asked to satisfactorily justify their support of THE OPPOSITE point of view. How clever of them....
"Democracy is hard, perhaps the most complex and difficult of all forms of government. It is filled with tensions and contradictions, and requires
its members labor diligently to make it work. Democracy is not designed for efficiency, but for accountability; a democratic government may not be able to act as quickly as a dictatorship, but once committed to a course of action it can draw upon deep wellsprings of popular support,"
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/democracy/
This is the space all citizens are obliged to aggressively defend and not so quickly entrust it to powerful government leaders submerged in own interests.
Let's debate some more Brian!
--- Brian Longwe <brian@isisweb.nl> wrote:
SMS is not allowed in Ethiopia - let alone media freedom or conducive legislation ..... it is not fair to compare a country with such advanced civil liberties as Kenya with a dictatorial regime.
It is also important to look at the other side of the coin and challenge/question our media as to why they would want to blacken our country's good record and reputation on the international arena. Please be assured that we have enemies who would use any means to make us look bad ..... don't take anything that appears in print as gospel ......
'nuff said,
Brian
On Aug 20, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Alex Gakuru wrote:
Dear Dr. Ndemo,
It is terrible the media called a dog! but
you
very much for easing the weight of responsibility...
Certainly, I would really appreciate if my full confidence were restored considering frighteningly it appears communication is under attack across Africa: The New Struggle for Press Freedom in Africa http://allafrica.com/stories/200708201115.html and stories like "Botswana, Kenya and Zimbabwe
tyrannical Bills" http://www.eastandard.net/archives/index.php? mnu=details&id=1143973075&catid=4
I trust you understand why I have to stay put regarding the Communication Amendment Bill - concerned because since March 2006, the top five most popular Ethiopian web sites (including CyberEthiopia) and several blogs have been blocked and are inaccessible across Ethiopia. The apparent objective is to prevent the dissemination of information that is critical of the current regime.
See http://www.cyberethiopia.com/net/docs/ internet_repression_in_ethiopia.html
RSF had also reported the censorship along with other media watchdogs and had called on the relevant ministries in Ethiopia, but no reaction so far.
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=17783
I am only afraid that foreign companies may
not trust
their outsourcing to our entrepreneurs if only and just government were remotely perceived "packet sniffing" regime. I have no doubt all of us in Kenya wish nothing came in our way of vision
philosophical that thank pass 2030.
Lord forbid but should Kenya sink, we all go
under and
I want to stay afloat with my head above the water for a long time.
Regards,
Alex
--- bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Dear Alex, There is no crisis or tension in the ICT legislative process. I was pointing out the opportunities that are available to you in ensuring that the piece of legislation you want is passed. As far as I am concerned all of us have representation in parliament and we should utilize that opportunity instead of blaming the Government.
=== message truncated ===
____________________________________________________________________________________ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/
-- Eng.J.N. Kariuki, Tel.+254-20-2719953 P.O.Box 72748, NAIROBI 00200, KENYA e-mail: jnkariuki@gmail.com;John.Kariuki@ties.itu.int;kibubuti@yahoo.co.uk
Yes John, Agreed we leave the subject for another day. Just remember we are always available for consultations Thxs --- John Kariuki <jnkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Alex, I wish that things were that simple. However, regulation by code raises very serious legal issues as it amounts to "privatisation of law making" but this is a subject of another day!
On 8/22/07, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
Precisely! Why should the author conclude "It is
time
for legislators and regulators to step in." It smacks of a call for government net control while instead end users should continue developing their own codes to make the internet to grow.
Q: Which Legislators? Kenya,EA,EU,Congress.. Q: Which Regulators? CCK, OfCOM, FCC..
The internet's success was based on the following reasons: "HISTORY: WE OWE IT ALL TO THE HIPPIES"
1. "Access to computers should be unlimited and total." 2. "All information should be free." 3. "Mistrust authority - promote decentralization." 4. "You can create art and beauty on a computer." 5. "Computers can change your life for the better."
http://members.aye.net/~hippie/hippie/special_.htm
The article to me sounds like building blocks justifying grounds from Mugabe's and the Chinese to censor internet and we all know the favourite entry points (separately below could also be one such)
---- Separately,
http://www.bdafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2587&Itemid=5813
We note "Consumer Bill to boost online transactions" and welcome this government move.
Our Consumers Association was not informed, or involved in the background policy formulation process if and/or when that took place. Further, the Bill is not listed at http://www.kenyalaw.org/Bills/ so I may not have specifics.
Overall, our interpretation is that this Bill's intention is just similar to the Government's NGO Coordination Board that checks for CS registrations, etc. for govt - while the Civil Society have an own "industry" NGO Council that deals with their dear "end-user" (in this case ICT consumers) issues.
KEBS-we have a BIG consumer issue on their "closed" endorsement of Microsoft-sponsored OOXML standard i.e. without open and wide industry consultations.
If Ms Catherine Ngahu, were on this list perhaps she would have clarified apparently because Internet consumer protection stands out on the story.
In principle, ICAK welcomes this bill, wishes later government appointees well and we hope to interact with them at a convenient moment in the future (after the bill is passed.)
Thxs
-- John Kariuki <jnkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Alex, For your information,the original Internet was not regulated. However, after commercialization in the early 1990's we see a lot of regulation, not by laws passed by legislators or regulators BUT by the "Codes"made by programmers who determine what you can or cannot do on the Internet.
JN
On 8/21/07, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
I disagree with Sam Vaknin's arguments
Internet!"
"It is time for legislators and regulators to step in. Even a moderate dose of legislation and the willingness not to succumb to either to mob or to business pressures will go a long way towards restoring the Internet to its original
civilized and lawful - not to mention
"Regulate the purpose: the pleasurable -
exchange of information and opinion over computer networks."
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=34976
But Greek and Latin owe their humbling
esteem to regard, value, and placing the essence of a good debate far above time-tied points of view. Thus, I am happy in Kenya recently I attended a meeting only to find all asked to satisfactorily justify
support of THE OPPOSITE point of view. How clever of them....
"Democracy is hard, perhaps the most complex and difficult of all forms of government. It is filled with tensions and contradictions, and requires
philosophical their that
its members labor diligently to make it work. Democracy is not designed for efficiency, but for accountability; a democratic government may not be able to act as quickly as a dictatorship, but once committed to a course of action it can draw upon deep wellsprings of popular support,"
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/democracy/
This is the space all citizens are obliged to aggressively defend and not so quickly entrust
it to
powerful government leaders submerged in own interests.
Let's debate some more Brian!
--- Brian Longwe <brian@isisweb.nl> wrote:
SMS is not allowed in Ethiopia - let alone media freedom or conducive legislation ..... it is not fair to compare a country with such advanced civil liberties as Kenya with a dictatorial regime.
=== message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
Kudos to the Ministry for the action taken regarding the Communications Amendments Bill. But I have a big bone to pick with the media, in one of the local dailies: "The withdrawn communication bill would have given the Government unfettered powers against the media"...... On what planet does the writer of this article live? It seems that in this recent anti-government tirade no one has really taken time to read and digest the contents of the comms amendment bill. Anyway I for one am very happy that both the Media and the Comms Amendment Bills have been withdrawn - not because I had any issues with either of the bills but more because the naysayers, witchhunters and doomsday prophets will have to search high and low to find something to whine about. Mblayo
Brian I agree with you and as we strive towards being an outsourcing destinations, demos dont reflect very well. We should try to minimize or totally avoid them and enter into meaningful dialog where possible. However wakwitu......wo is isisweb.nl? and may your remind us what we learn in primo and seco? Brian Longwe <brian@isisweb.nl> wrote: Thank you very much Bw. Ndemo for this clear, concise and very practical reminder of our legislative process (it's amazing how quickly we forget the stuff we learnt in pri/sec school)! Rgds, Brian On Aug 14, 2007, at 1:41 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Rebecca, I did not want to comment on the Demo but I think the public is being misled here. What is the reasoning behind the Demo when the Government has made it clear that the issue shall be looked at? We delivered on all promises we made to the stakeholders and those who bothered to read and seek dialog. I think by resorting into mob psychology you risk eroding the confidence and and trust that we have built over the past view years.
Since we have another bill coming, I have decided to present the lessons learnt (attached) from the Media Bill to avoid such situation in the ICT Bill. It is important that we all understand the legislative process in Kenya and it is only by making decisions based on knowledge that we can develop a civilized nation.
Regards
Bitange Ndemo.
in case yhou support journalists... Hi all. This is to inform you that we have already notified the police that we shall be holding a peaceful procession as indicated in Mbaus email. We have also dispatched a letter to the AG asking him or his representative to wait for our petition on the appointed date. Please send this message to as many journalists as you can. Thank you. _____________________________________________ From: Samuel Mbau Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 12:23 PM To: Julius Bosire; Owino Opondo; Editorial Cc: Business Daily; Easy FM; eam; NTV News Subject: SILENT DEMO
Dear journalist, The contentious clause 38 (4) in the Media Bill states: "When a story includes unnamed parties who are not disclosed and the same becomes the subject of a legal tussle as to who is meant, then the editor shall be obligated to disclose the identity of the party or parties referred to." As members of the Fourth Estate who take it upon ourselves to fight for the rights of others, we simply cannot afford to sit down and do nothing while our own rights and a basic tenets of our profession are at stake. The Silent Demo is on! The Silent Demonstration will take place on Wednesday August 15, with the blessings and the support from the majority of media houses and associations as well as myriads of well wishers. We shall assemble 8:30am at Freedom Corner at Uhuru Park. We will then march to the AGs Chambers (via Kenyatta Ave- Moi Ave- Harambee Ave) where we will present a petition to the chief legal adviser to the Government and ask him to advise the President against signing the proposed law. We shall then proceed to march around Parliament two times before breaking the demo at Freedom corner. The whole programme should take about two hours maximum. The demo is silent for there will be no chanting nor singing. We will actually be quiet through out the march and our mouths gagged with black cloth or duct tape. We can also adorn black scarves, head bands or arm bands. So please bring along a gag, dress in your organisations branded wear [if available], AND remember to put on some comfortable walking shoes. We are looking forward to your participation and your organisations support as we SILENCE this bad law. NB: Watch out for a spectacular media showing on that day. Standing as one, Inter-media committee
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: benmakai@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/benmakai%40yahoo.com Benjamin Makai Tel: 254-722-540641 P.O. Box 8608, 00300, Nairobi, Kenya --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids.
--- Benjamin Makai <benmakai@yahoo.com> wrote:
as we strive towards being an outsourcing destinations, demos dont reflect very well. We should try to minimize or totally avoid them and enter into meaningful dialog where possible.
You would not be suggesting that as we strive to achieve outsourcing destination all else totally stops? As for dialog - to me this demo was about journalists raising the conscience of our hard-working nation to reform and chance the ways of the political culture of breaking long dialog and hard-earned promises. That's all really. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
Alex Its all about a win win situation. What reflects well about our country tricles down to what we strive to achieve in the environment set by the same country's governance , however this doesnt say that processes or standards pertaining to specific issues should be undermined. I leave u with a quote from an interviewer when i finished my university in a very small city or town in kenya... asking me "you mean you graduated from the university which has been stonning my buses?" I had no answer..but image is very vital........ Reflect this" outsource my service to a demo city and country" ? lets not be short sighted just to gain 3 min of fame !!!!!!!. in the name of freespace and democracy and consumer rights....... there are set standards, best practices world wide...i guesss u understand that better.. Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote: --- Benjamin Makai wrote:
as we strive towards being an outsourcing destinations, demos dont reflect very well. We should try to minimize or totally avoid them and enter into meaningful dialog where possible.
You would not be suggesting that as we strive to achieve outsourcing destination all else totally stops? As for dialog - to me this demo was about journalists raising the conscience of our hard-working nation to reform and chance the ways of the political culture of breaking long dialog and hard-earned promises. That's all really. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting Benjamin Makai Tel: 254-722-540641 P.O. Box 8608, 00300, Nairobi, Kenya --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.
Press freedom is often a measure of a society's openness and suitability of practising business in a free society. The government's willingness to uphold constitutional freedoms and rights is another measure by which investors can gauge whether the government supports an open society and whether that government is able to respect and follow the laid down laws. Unfortunately the law making process failed to follow ordinary norms when the clause was passed by a small minority not representative of tthe majority represented in parliament and were it not for freedom of expression the law would likely have made it into the books. Would we as a country rather receive negative press like Zimbabwe which recently passed a law to conduct wide spread surveillance or receive recognition as being a law abiding country which has room for differing opinions and a thriving media? Can anyone expect any cautious investor to invest in Zimbabwe with enthusiasm given such negative publicity: "HARARE (Reuters) - Zimbabwe's President Robert Mugabe has signed into law an act enabling state security agents to monitor phone lines, mail and the Internet, a government notice published on Friday said." http://africa.reuters.com/top/news/usnBAN436752.html compare this to the following international media reports which recognise that we have come a long way from a time when freedoms were often suppressed and attacked but which are also cognisant that we're not perfect: "The media has had greater freedom under Kibaki than during the 24-year rule of his predecessor Daniel arap Moi, when reporters were routinely harassed and sometimes tortured." http://africa.reuters.com/country/KE/news/usnL15846976.html According to an insider Member of Parliament and former VP, it is apparent the government has possibly breached its ability to be trusted, though his opinions will likely be attacked as the opinions of yet another politician, the opinion piece is worth reading. The 5 Ds strategy of government was rather intriguing: http://allafrica.com/stories/200708150788.html Peaceful demonstrations are recognised the world over for achieving positive results the world over. Countries which have had open societies for many decades or centuries support the right to peacefully and lawfully demonstrate, to attack this fundamental and constitutionally protected right sends the wrong message about the country we live in. Just to illustrate a recent parallel, a few weeks back, legal high skilled immigrants in the US engaged in various forms of peaceful demos from sending flowers to peaceful marches. The result was that a mere minority of the US work population 0.07% managed to reverse a terrible government decision by making the impact of the government's actions known and understood: The actions: http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2007/db20070713_68755... The results: http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2007/db20070717_92308... In both cases, the legislative bodies failed to perform, in one case failing to pass a bill and in the other "sneaking" in a constitutionally debatable clause into a bill and passing it by a less than a 50% quorum. Had those affected in both countries kept quiet, it is likely they would have gone on to become the victims of legislative bodies that did seem keen on listening without them being vocal. This is what democracy is about, a thriving democracy is key to the country to being seen positively as an investment and business destination. On 8/16/07, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- Benjamin Makai <benmakai@yahoo.com> wrote:
as we strive towards being an outsourcing destinations, demos dont reflect very well. We should try to minimize or totally avoid them and enter into meaningful dialog where possible.
You would not be suggesting that as we strive to achieve outsourcing destination all else totally stops? As for dialog - to me this demo was about journalists raising the conscience of our hard-working nation to reform and chance the ways of the political culture of breaking long dialog and hard-earned promises. That's all really.
Theuri !! My questions still upholds.. at what stage or phase of the process can one cite and say it is where things went wrong? Enlighten us....please !! I beleive in evidence..Am not in governemnt nor am in evidenceless scenarios.... We can only learn by highlighting where their was deviation from the norms or agreed ways acceptable by all standards..proffessional, political etc.......Lets not just be a a list of people who support anything based on nothing. Educate others whom may share my concerns,at what stage of bill making process things went wrong..Lets brainstorm on possible causes of this, and at the same time identify the solutions to this now and in future..By doing so, then we shall be building a healthy nation.....In ICT evidence is key to an concern raised and at what level it happened....do we have auditors..more so systems and processes auditors in this list? Think of it and ask what can be done to ensure minimal people will not pass what we dont agree on in the future and how all stakeholders opinions can always be factored in any situation be it that is being effected by technocrats, politicians etc for they are not the final say...and dwell on what is practical and realistic using approved and acceptable measures and indicators. Thats whats interest towards a common goal is all about...not minitutes of fame through demos....and uncalled for immature actions. mike.theuri@gmail.com> Mike Theuri <wrote: Press freedom is often a measure of a society's openness and suitability of practising business in a free society. The government's willingness to uphold constitutional freedoms and rights is another measure by which investors can gauge whether the government supports an open society and whether that government is able to respect and follow the laid down laws. Unfortunately the law making process failed to follow ordinary norms when the clause was passed by a small minority not representative of tthe majority represented in parliament and were it not for freedom of expression the law would likely have made it into the books. Would we as a country rather receive negative press like Zimbabwe which recently passed a law to conduct wide spread surveillance or receive recognition as being a law abiding country which has room for differing opinions and a thriving media? Can anyone expect any cautious investor to invest in Zimbabwe with enthusiasm given such negative publicity: "HARARE (Reuters) - Zimbabwe's President Robert Mugabe has signed into law an act enabling state security agents to monitor phone lines, mail and the Internet, a government notice published on Friday said." http://africa.reuters.com/top/news/usnBAN436752.html compare this to the following international media reports which recognise that we have come a long way from a time when freedoms were often suppressed and attacked but which are also cognisant that we're not perfect: "The media has had greater freedom under Kibaki than during the 24-year rule of his predecessor Daniel arap Moi, when reporters were routinely harassed and sometimes tortured." http://africa.reuters.com/country/KE/news/usnL15846976.html According to an insider Member of Parliament and former VP, it is apparent the government has possibly breached its ability to be trusted, though his opinions will likely be attacked as the opinions of yet another politician, the opinion piece is worth reading. The 5 Ds strategy of government was rather intriguing: http://allafrica.com/stories/200708150788.html Peaceful demonstrations are recognised the world over for achieving positive results the world over. Countries which have had open societies for many decades or centuries support the right to peacefully and lawfully demonstrate, to attack this fundamental and constitutionally protected right sends the wrong message about the country we live in. Just to illustrate a recent parallel, a few weeks back, legal high skilled immigrants in the US engaged in various forms of peaceful demos from sending flowers to peaceful marches. The result was that a mere minority of the US work population 0.07% managed to reverse a terrible government decision by making the impact of the government's actions known and understood: The actions: http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2007/db20070713_68755... The results: http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2007/db20070717_92308... In both cases, the legislative bodies failed to perform, in one case failing to pass a bill and in the other "sneaking" in a constitutionally debatable clause into a bill and passing it by a less than a 50% quorum. Had those affected in both countries kept quiet, it is likely they would have gone on to become the victims of legislative bodies that did seem keen on listening without them being vocal. This is what democracy is about, a thriving democracy is key to the country to being seen positively as an investment and business destination. On 8/16/07, Alex Gakuru wrote:
--- Benjamin Makai wrote:
as we strive towards being an outsourcing destinations, demos dont reflect very well. We should try to minimize or totally avoid them and enter into meaningful dialog where possible.
You would not be suggesting that as we strive to achieve outsourcing destination all else totally stops? As for dialog - to me this demo was about journalists raising the conscience of our hard-working nation to reform and chance the ways of the political culture of breaking long dialog and hard-earned promises. That's all really.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: benmakai@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/benmakai%40yahoo.com --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
Makai,
Thats whats interest towards a common goal is all about...not minitutes of fame through demos....and uncalled for immature actions.
Disclosure: I'm not a member of the media fraternity and neither work for a media house at the time of writing this message. I support the manner in which members of the media handled themselves...maturely and within their constitutionally guaranteed rights. If there had been chaos, stone throwing or other disorderly conduct I might be able to concur how this might amount to seeking fame or engaging in immature actions. Let us be respectful of the media's right to peacefully congregate, exercise their right to freedom of expression, associate and present petitions on matters affecting their industry and livelihoods, after all they are not engaged in this as a matter of regular practice. Going back to the process. Things went wrong at the legislative stage when the MP introduced an agenda that was not subjected to exhaustive debate by a full house or the semblance of it. The evidence is that 27 MPs voted for the measure, the house has 222 voting members thus a mere 12% of the elected representatives of the people passed the clause. Was this legal under the rules? Yes. Did it reflect the wishes of the people and/or the government? Very unlikely given the reaction by society. Indeed one must ask where the other 195 members were when the vote was being held. Had the house been full, I'm sure there would have been substantive debate and the final ammended clause would have better reflected that debate. If the wananchi's representatives are not present to convey their views and opposition to the bill then wananchi have no choice but to express themselves through other legal means. What other avenues did wananchi and the media have to get the matter sorted out at this late in the legislative process without first making sure that the focus was on the issue? Securing an appointment with the President for 300 people in a timely fashion prior to his signing the bill would be near impossible The possible solutions are: Political: Kenyans can elect hard working MPs from amongst themselves who will go beyond technically reporting to work and be fully engaged in the legislative process. Since there are no performance contracts attached to these positions this is a hard one to enforce except once every 5 years. The possibility of recall petitions and elections may put MPs on notice that they could be recalled by their constitutents should they fail to perform. Expecting MPs to pass a "job elimination" law that affects them any time soon is akin to wishful thinking Legal Procedures: Parliament can amend its standing orders procedures to ensure that bills are not passed without a quorum present. As one newspaper article recently observed, a single MP could single handledly pass a bill! Hearings: Parliamentary committees can conduct multiple public hearings to obtain representations from members of the public and stakeholders. The onus falls on all parties for this to be successful. Such hearings should be easily accessible, well publicised and attendees should strive to attend or submit their written comments. Educational: Far broader educational initiatives for citizens to understand how the legislative and parliamentary processes work at the primary and secondary school levels will help educate future voters/constituents on how they can be better engaged in the process. I doubt that there are many Kenyans who take the time to write to their MP to share their opinions on upcoming and pending legislative matters. Better Access to MP offices: Instead of seeking huge pay raises, it would serve to spend the funds to provide better and easier access to MPs through establishing or enhancing offices dedicated to providing an audience to constituents. For example provision of toll free numbers to MP offices and online contact forms through www.bunge.go.ke, having staff dedicated to taking these calls and presenting issues to the MPs would go a long way in getting constituents views across. These are just a few thoughts on how we can avoid such legislative mishaps from happening in future, they are not overnight possibly not even the right solutions. I'm sure others may have better ideas. I have hope I have helped point out where things went wrong. On 8/16/07, Benjamin Makai <benmakai@yahoo.com> wrote:
Theuri !! My questions still upholds.. at what stage or phase of the process can one cite and say it is where things went wrong? Enlighten us....please !!
I beleive in evidence..Am not in governemnt nor am in evidenceless scenarios.... We can only learn by highlighting where their was deviation from the norms or agreed ways acceptable by all standards..proffessional, political etc.......Lets not just be a a list of people who support anything based on nothing.
Educate others whom may share my concerns,at what stage of bill making process things went wrong..Lets brainstorm on possible causes of this, and at the same time identify the solutions to this now and in future..By doing so, then we shall be building a healthy nation.....In ICT evidence is key to an concern raised and at what level it happened....do we have auditors..more so systems and processes auditors in this list?
Think of it and ask what can be done to ensure minimal people will not pass what we dont agree on in the future and how all stakeholders opinions can always be factored in any situation be it that is being effected by technocrats, politicians etc for they are not the final say...and dwell on what is practical and realistic using approved and acceptable measures and indicators.
Thats whats interest towards a common goal is all about...not minitutes of fame through demos....and uncalled for immature actions.
--- Benjamin Makai <benmakai@yahoo.com> wrote: ...snip> In ICT evidence is key to an concern raised and at what level it happened....do we have auditors..more so systems and processes auditors in this list? <snip ------ Ben, I was challenged by the above statement and felt I could take the opportunity to confirm that indeed the list has several IS auditors. Indeed Preston (preston@k-90ea.com) one of the founder Chair of ISACA-Kenya Chapter (Information Systems Audit & Control Assosciation, www.isaca.org) has been one of the guys who likes lurking silently in the background ;-). Most of you might be more familiar with the CISA or CISM exams that are administered by ISACA and are internationally recognised as the key qualifications particularly when it comes to Information Security in business enterprises. And just going back to Lizzete's type of concerns, I think in future, it would be wise to consider ISACA-Kenya Chapter as one of the bodies that should be included for board membership in Kenya ICT Board, KENIC Board, KICTANet Board, CSK Board, etc,etc. walu. --- Benjamin Makai <benmakai@yahoo.com> wrote:
Theuri !! My questions still upholds.. at what stage or phase of the process can one cite and say it is where things went wrong? Enlighten us....please !!
I beleive in evidence..Am not in governemnt nor am in evidenceless scenarios.... We can only learn by highlighting where their was deviation from the norms or agreed ways acceptable by all standards..proffessional, political etc.......Lets not just be a a list of people who support anything based on nothing.
Educate others whom may share my concerns,at what stage of bill making process things went wrong..Lets brainstorm on possible causes of this, and at the same time identify the solutions to this now and in future..By doing so, then we shall be building a healthy nation.....In ICT evidence is key to an concern raised and at what level it happened....do we have auditors..more so systems and processes auditors in this list?
Think of it and ask what can be done to ensure minimal people will not pass what we dont agree on in the future and how all stakeholders opinions can always be factored in any situation be it that is being effected by technocrats, politicians etc for they are not the final say...and dwell on what is practical and realistic using approved and acceptable measures and indicators.
Thats whats interest towards a common goal is all about...not minitutes of fame through demos....and uncalled for immature actions.
mike.theuri@gmail.com> Mike Theuri <wrote: Press freedom is often a measure of a society's openness and suitability of practising business in a free society. The government's willingness to uphold constitutional freedoms and rights is another measure by which investors can gauge whether the government supports an open society and whether that government is able to respect and follow the laid down laws. Unfortunately the law making process failed to follow ordinary norms when the clause was passed by a small minority not representative of tthe majority represented in parliament and were it not for freedom of expression the law would likely have made it into the books.
Would we as a country rather receive negative press like Zimbabwe which recently passed a law to conduct wide spread surveillance or receive recognition as being a law abiding country which has room for differing opinions and a thriving media? Can anyone expect any cautious investor to invest in Zimbabwe with enthusiasm given such negative publicity:
"HARARE (Reuters) - Zimbabwe's President Robert Mugabe has signed into law an act enabling state security agents to monitor phone lines, mail and the Internet, a government notice published on Friday said." http://africa.reuters.com/top/news/usnBAN436752.html
compare this to the following international media reports which recognise that we have come a long way from a time when freedoms were often suppressed and attacked but which are also cognisant that we're not perfect:
"The media has had greater freedom under Kibaki than during the 24-year rule of his predecessor Daniel arap Moi, when reporters were routinely harassed and sometimes tortured."
http://africa.reuters.com/country/KE/news/usnL15846976.html
According to an insider Member of Parliament and former VP, it is apparent the government has possibly breached its ability to be trusted, though his opinions will likely be attacked as the opinions of yet another politician, the opinion piece is worth reading. The 5 Ds strategy of government was rather intriguing: http://allafrica.com/stories/200708150788.html
Peaceful demonstrations are recognised the world over for achieving positive results the world over. Countries which have had open societies for many decades or centuries support the right to peacefully and lawfully demonstrate, to attack this fundamental and constitutionally protected right sends the wrong message about the country we live in.
Just to illustrate a recent parallel, a few weeks back, legal high skilled immigrants in the US engaged in various forms of peaceful demos from sending flowers to peaceful marches. The result was that a mere minority of the US work population 0.07% managed to reverse a terrible government decision by making the impact of the government's actions known and understood:
The actions:
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2007/db20070713_68755...
The results:
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2007/db20070717_92308...
In both cases, the legislative bodies failed to perform, in one case failing to pass a bill and in the other "sneaking" in a constitutionally debatable clause into a bill and passing it by a less than a 50% quorum. Had those affected in both countries kept quiet, it is likely they would have gone on to become the victims of legislative bodies that did seem keen on listening without them being vocal. This is what democracy is about, a thriving democracy is key to the country to being seen positively as an investment and business destination.
On 8/16/07, Alex Gakuru wrote:
--- Benjamin Makai wrote:
as we strive towards being an outsourcing destinations, demos dont reflect very well. We should try to minimize or totally avoid them and enter into meaningful dialog where possible.
You would not be suggesting that as we strive to achieve outsourcing destination all else totally stops? As for dialog - to me this demo was about journalists raising the conscience of our hard-working nation to reform and chance the ways of the political culture of breaking long dialog and hard-earned promises. That's all really.
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participants (9)
-
Alex Gakuru -
Barrack Otieno -
Benjamin Makai -
bitange＠jambo.co.ke -
Brian Longwe -
John Kariuki -
John Walubengo -
Mike Theuri -
Rebecca Wanjiku