Banning of the FILM Rafiki
Hi I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an LGBT film, Rafiki. Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed by the courts. Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list. I am looking forward to the discussion. Kind regards, Alex
What is the film about? On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi
I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an LGBT film, Rafiki.
Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed by the courts.
Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
I am looking forward to the discussion.
Kind regards, Alex
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I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May. Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the film about?
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi
I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an LGBT film, Rafiki.
Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed by the courts.
Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
I am looking forward to the discussion.
Kind regards, Alex
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org
For sure the film does not constitute propaganda for war, hate speech, advocacy for hatred or discrimination neither does it undermine the rights and reputation of others. These are the only acceptable limitations to the freedom of expression (Article 33).
On 30 Apr 2018, at 14:05, Alex Comninos via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU>
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com <mailto:dmuthoni@gmail.com>> wrote:
What is the film about?
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi
I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an LGBT film, Rafiki.
Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed by the courts.
Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
I am looking forward to the discussion.
Kind regards, Alex
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org <http://comninos.org/>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Attached is the explanation given for the banning. (Source: Twitter) Regards, Mildred Achoch. On Monday, April 30, 2018, kanini mutemi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
For sure the film does not constitute propaganda for war, hate speech, advocacy for hatred or discrimination neither does it undermine the rights and reputation of others. These are the only acceptable limitations to the freedom of expression (Article 33).
On 30 Apr 2018, at 14:05, Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the film about?
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet <
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi
I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an LGBT film, Rafiki.
Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was
reversed
by the courts.
Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
I am looking forward to the discussion.
Kind regards, Alex
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmuthoni%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com
Several issues with the statement @Mildred. 1. 'Films made in Kenya for public consumption MUST reflect and respect the dominant value of the Kenyan society' I mean the statement in itself encourages discrimination and makes a mockery of the spirit of the Constitution to grant every person equal protection. Constitutional protection is not for the popular. 2. To invoke Article 45 (definition of marriage) to restrict the Freedom of Expression is just ludicrous. There is no relation between the two. One deals with real life relationships while the latter in this case protects a work of fiction. Article 33 is not subjected to Article 45. 3. It does seem that this problem extends to the powers given to the Board by the Films and Stage Plays Act. Administrative action has to be subjected to constitutional values and principles, key of which is respect for the Bill of Rights. Therefore, the room for discretion is minimal. The grounds for restricting or even banning the public viewing of a work of fiction (right to give and receive information) are set in stone. They are not to be subjected to the moral views of the current Board membership. Otherwise, there will be no predictability in administrative action. 4. 'Kenya is a country with a culture, beliefs and shared values’. This is false. The Constitution even recognises and seeks to uphold our diversity. To look at this as a mere religious or even moral dilemma is to subjectively apply the Bill of rights. No matter how uncomfortable it makes us, we must advocate for the highest degree of respect for the Bill of rights. If we let some injustice slide, we will not realise when the whole essence of the protection is washed away.
On 30 Apr 2018, at 14:55, Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> wrote:
Attached is the explanation given for the banning. (Source: Twitter)
Regards, Mildred Achoch.
On Monday, April 30, 2018, kanini mutemi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: For sure the film does not constitute propaganda for war, hate speech, advocacy for hatred or discrimination neither does it undermine the rights and reputation of others. These are the only acceptable limitations to the freedom of expression (Article 33).
On 30 Apr 2018, at 14:05, Alex Comninos via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU>
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com <mailto:dmuthoni@gmail.com>> wrote:
What is the film about?
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Hi
I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an LGBT film, Rafiki.
Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed by the courts.
Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
I am looking forward to the discussion.
Kind regards, Alex
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet <http://twitter.com/kictanet> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ <https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke <http://www.eacdirectory.co.ke/>
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmuthoni%40gmail.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmuthoni%40gmail.com>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org <http://comninos.org/>
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet <http://twitter.com/kictanet> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ <https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke <http://www.eacdirectory.co.ke/>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
<Db83ow8WsAAOf4A.jpg><Db83nq0XUAAOJ7R.jpg>
Dear Kanini, Thank you so much for your detailed and informative explanation! I really appreciate it. Regards, Mildred. On Monday, April 30, 2018, kanini mutemi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Several issues with the statement @Mildred.
1. 'Films made in Kenya for public consumption MUST reflect and respect the dominant value of the Kenyan society'
I mean the statement in itself encourages discrimination and makes a mockery of the spirit of the Constitution to grant every person equal protection. Constitutional protection is not for the popular.
2. To invoke Article 45 (definition of marriage) to restrict the Freedom of Expression is just ludicrous. There is no relation between the two. One deals with real life relationships while the latter in this case protects a work of fiction. Article 33 is not subjected to Article 45.
3. It does seem that this problem extends to the powers given to the Board by the Films and Stage Plays Act. Administrative action has to be subjected to constitutional values and principles, key of which is respect for the Bill of Rights. Therefore, the room for discretion is minimal. The grounds for restricting or even banning the public viewing of a work of fiction (right to give and receive information) are set in stone. They are not to be subjected to the moral views of the current Board membership. Otherwise, there will be no predictability in administrative action.
4. 'Kenya is a country with a culture, beliefs and shared values’. This is false. The Constitution even recognises and seeks to uphold our diversity.
To look at this as a mere religious or even moral dilemma is to subjectively apply the Bill of rights. No matter how uncomfortable it makes us, we must advocate for the highest degree of respect for the Bill of rights. If we let some injustice slide, we will not realise when the whole essence of the protection is washed away.
On 30 Apr 2018, at 14:55, Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> wrote:
Attached is the explanation given for the banning. (Source: Twitter)
Regards, Mildred Achoch.
On Monday, April 30, 2018, kanini mutemi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
For sure the film does not constitute propaganda for war, hate speech, advocacy for hatred or discrimination neither does it undermine the rights and reputation of others. These are the only acceptable limitations to the freedom of expression (Article 33).
On 30 Apr 2018, at 14:05, Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the film about?
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet <
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi
I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an LGBT film, Rafiki.
Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was
reversed
by the courts.
Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
I am looking forward to the discussion.
Kind regards, Alex
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmutho ni%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com
<Db83ow8WsAAOf4A.jpg><Db83nq0XUAAOJ7R.jpg>
-- Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com
Dear Alex, I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May. Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the film about?
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi
I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an LGBT film, Rafiki.
Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed by the courts.
Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
I am looking forward to the discussion.
Kind regards, Alex
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ldinga%40managecom.co.... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Does Kenya have a state religion? On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Dear Alex, I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May. Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote: > What is the film about? > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: >> Hi >> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an >> LGBT film, Rafiki. >> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts. >> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list. >> I am looking forward to the discussion. >> Kind regards, >> Alex >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e= >> Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e= >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke >> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_dmuthoni-2540gmail.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=cV_kzVSAVxODhlmSGR0F5JTzQg11XsEHPKkWiNxNJkI&e= >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- ... Alex Comninos https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__comninos.org&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=1VGBkFQz9Mn9VQt6ZQl_kT2TxpZDx66Gg_t5ufF1Ifc&e= _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e= Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e= Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ldinga-2540managecom.co.ke&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=zMQ1yVUkpoJexE9hu6-hstpD13ucCEAzqiSMTCejPgU&e= The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. 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I have a problem with governmet making moral decitions. That is and should remain the purvew of other institutions. On 30 Apr 2018, 2:37 PM +0300, Ebele Okobi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>, wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the film about?
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi
I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an LGBT film, Rafiki.
Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed by the courts.
Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
I am looking forward to the discussion.
Kind regards, Alex
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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I have a problem with anyone but myself making my moral decisions. On 30 April 2018 at 14:38, Collins Areba via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I have a problem with governmet making moral decitions. That is and should remain the purvew of other institutions.
On 30 Apr 2018, 2:37 PM +0300, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>, wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=7M_-ucSaFpU
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the film about?
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet <
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi
I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an LGBT film, Rafiki.
Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was
reversed
by the courts.
Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
I am looking forward to the discussion.
Kind regards, Alex
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ comninos.org&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_ Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s= 1VGBkFQz9Mn9VQt6ZQl_kT2TxpZDx66Gg_t5ufF1Ifc&e=
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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-- ------------------------------------------------------------------ ---Freedom is the right of all sentient beings--- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks and Regards, Kariuki James Wanjau, (+254) 0717-315-092 ke.linkedin.com/in/JamesWanjau
@Ebele, Here is the Preamble to our Constitution: CONSTITUTION OF KENYA PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation: HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land: PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation: RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations: COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation: RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law: EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution: ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations. GOD BLESS KENYA Then Article 8: State and religion There shall be no State religion.
On 30 Apr 2018, at 14:38, Collins Areba via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I have a problem with governmet making moral decitions. That is and should remain the purvew of other institutions.
On 30 Apr 2018, 2:37 PM +0300, Ebele Okobi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>, wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the film about?
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi
I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an LGBT film, Rafiki.
Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed by the courts.
Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
I am looking forward to the discussion.
Kind regards, Alex
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KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold. And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities. Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship. Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution: 32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION (1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion. (2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship. (3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion. (4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion. On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an >> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience. Regards From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold. And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities. Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship. Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution: 32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION (1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion. (2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship. (3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion. (4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion. On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Does Kenya have a state religion? On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Dear Alex, I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May. Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote: > What is the film about? > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: >> Hi >> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an >> LGBT film, Rafiki. >> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts. >> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list. >> I am looking forward to the discussion. >> Kind regards, >> Alex >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e= >> Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e= >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke >> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_dmuthoni-2540gmail.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=cV_kzVSAVxODhlmSGR0F5JTzQg11XsEHPKkWiNxNJkI&e= >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- ... Alex Comninos https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__comninos.org&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=1VGBkFQz9Mn9VQt6ZQl_kT2TxpZDx66Gg_t5ufF1Ifc&e= _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e= Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e= Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ldinga-2540managecom.co.ke&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=zMQ1yVUkpoJexE9hu6-hstpD13ucCEAzqiSMTCejPgU&e= The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e= Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e= Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ebeleokobi-2540fb.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=FxPAgWG7fD9hpH3dqPuXDy2YSOg35hkDrQdnOqAbGbk&e= The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafr... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ldinga%40managecom.co.... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@Lawrence Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue? Please explain? There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything? So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament. Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me. Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then
it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on
the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
>> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>
>> Twitter:
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos
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ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
________________________________ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alex.comninos%40gmail....
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org
@Alex I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs. The board has also given the reasons behind the ban. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki @Lawrence Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue? Please explain? There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything? So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament. Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me. Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then
it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on
the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
>> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>
>> Twitter:
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
Twitter:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
Unsubscribe or change your options at
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
Twitter:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
Unsubscribe or change your options at
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email CONSTITUTION OF KENYA PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation: *My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. * HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land: PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation: *Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.* *There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!* RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations: COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation: RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law: * If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?* *Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!* EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution: ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations. GOD BLESS KENYA *These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. * *Twahir* On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: @Alex I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs. The board has also given the reasons behind the ban. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki @Lawrence Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue? Please explain? There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything? So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament. Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me. Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then
it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on
the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
>> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>
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>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
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ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos
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development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
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-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/twahir%40hussein.me.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Actually – there are many religions that have no issue with homosexuality. Buddhism makes no distinction between hetrosexual or homosexual relations The wiccan religion has a text that says “all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals” Hinduism makes no distinction (and in 2009 the Hindu Council UK explicity stated this) The Vedas religious texts even go so far as to refer to people in a third gender that is neither male nor female. In Sikhism marriage is seen as a union of souls, and the soul is seen as genderless. The list goes on and on and on – so sorry – your stance that no religion supports LGBT relationships as ok – is factually incorrect. Andrew From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet Sent: 30 April 2018 15:55 To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> Cc: Twahir Hussein Kassim <twahir@hussein.me.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my thoughts below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email CONSTITUTION OF KENYA PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation: My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land: PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation: Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing. There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys! RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations: COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation: RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law: If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live? Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge! EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution: ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations. GOD BLESS KENYA These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. Twahir On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: @Alex I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs. The board has also given the reasons behind the ban. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki @Lawrence Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue? Please explain? There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything? So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament. Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me. Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then
it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on
the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU>
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com<mailto:dmuthoni@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
>> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>
>> Twitter:
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/<https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/> >> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke<http://www.eacdirectory.co.ke>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Twitter:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/<https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke<http://www.eacdirectory.co.ke>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
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platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet<https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet<http://twitter.com/kictanet> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/<https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke<http://www.eacdirectory.co.ke>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
________________________________ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet<https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet<http://twitter.com/kictanet> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/<https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke<http://www.eacdirectory.co.ke>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org<http://comninos.org> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet<https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet<http://twitter.com/kictanet> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/<https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke<http://www.eacdirectory.co.ke> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/twahir%40hussein.me.ke<https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/twahir%40hussein.me.ke> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Andrew, Thanks for the history class. By religion I meant the Abrahamic religions; namely Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I am yet to see any text from the above mentioned condoning homosexuality. Twahir On Apr 30, 2018 16:17, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote: Actually – there are many religions that have no issue with homosexuality. Buddhism makes no distinction between hetrosexual or homosexual relations The wiccan religion has a text that says “all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals” Hinduism makes no distinction (and in 2009 the Hindu Council UK explicity stated this) The Vedas religious texts even go so far as to refer to people in a third gender that is neither male nor female. In Sikhism marriage is seen as a union of souls, and the soul is seen as genderless. The list goes on and on and on – so sorry – your stance that no religion supports LGBT relationships as ok – is factually incorrect. Andrew *From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston= liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet *Sent:* 30 April 2018 15:55 *To:* Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> *Cc:* Twahir Hussein Kassim <twahir@hussein.me.ke> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email *CONSTITUTION OF KENYA* PREAMBLE *ACKNOWLEDGING *the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation: *My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. * *HONOURING *those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land: *PROUD *of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation: *Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.* *There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!* *RESPECTFUL *of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations: *COMMITTED *to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation: *RECOGNISING *the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law: * If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?* *Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!* *EXERCISING *our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution: *ADOPT, ENACT *and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations. GOD BLESS KENYA *These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. * *Twahir* On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: @Alex I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs. The board has also given the reasons behind the ban. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki @Lawrence Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue? Please explain? There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything? So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament. Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me. Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then
it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on
the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
>> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>
>> Twitter:
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos
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ICT
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development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
________________________________ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/twahir%40hussein.me.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Oh I agree those may condemn homosexuality - but kenya is not limited to abrahamic religions and the constitution affords them no special privilege. I also point out that we cannot discount the religions of approximately 2.1 billion people on the planet that do not follow the abrahamic religions and choose other forms of faith - including Kenyans (and that’s not history - it’s current day reality) Andrew ________________________________ From: Twahir Hussein Kassim <twahir@hussein.me.ke> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 7:55:45 PM To: Andrew Alston Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki Andrew, Thanks for the history class. By religion I meant the Abrahamic religions; namely Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I am yet to see any text from the above mentioned condoning homosexuality. Twahir On Apr 30, 2018 16:17, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote: Actually – there are many religions that have no issue with homosexuality. Buddhism makes no distinction between hetrosexual or homosexual relations The wiccan religion has a text that says “all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals” Hinduism makes no distinction (and in 2009 the Hindu Council UK explicity stated this) The Vedas religious texts even go so far as to refer to people in a third gender that is neither male nor female. In Sikhism marriage is seen as a union of souls, and the soul is seen as genderless. The list goes on and on and on – so sorry – your stance that no religion supports LGBT relationships as ok – is factually incorrect. Andrew From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston<mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bandrew.alston>=liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke>] On Behalf Of Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet Sent: 30 April 2018 15:55 To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>> Cc: Twahir Hussein Kassim <twahir@hussein.me.ke<mailto:twahir@hussein.me.ke>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my thoughts below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email CONSTITUTION OF KENYA PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation: My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land: PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation: Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing. There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys! RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations: COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation: RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law: If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live? Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge! EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution: ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations. GOD BLESS KENYA These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. Twahir On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: @Alex I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs. The board has also given the reasons behind the ban. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki @Lawrence Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue? Please explain? There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything? So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament. Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me. Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then
it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on
the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU>
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com<mailto:dmuthoni@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
>> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>
>> Twitter:
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/<https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/> >> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke<http://www.eacdirectory.co.ke>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Twitter:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/<https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke<http://www.eacdirectory.co.ke>
Unsubscribe or change your options at
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Twitter:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/<https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke<http://www.eacdirectory.co.ke>
Unsubscribe or change your options at
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org<http://comninos.org> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet<https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet<http://twitter.com/kictanet> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/<https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke<http://www.eacdirectory.co.ke> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/twahir%40hussein.me.ke<https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/twahir%40hussein.me.ke> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so? If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia? If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture? Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands. The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture. The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end. On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my thoughts below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email CONSTITUTION OF KENYA PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation: My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land: PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation: Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing. There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys! RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations: COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation: RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law: If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live? Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge! EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution: ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations. GOD BLESS KENYA These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. Twahir On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: @Alex I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs. The board has also given the reasons behind the ban. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki @Lawrence Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue? Please explain? There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything? So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament. Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me. Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then
it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on
the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com<mailto:dmuthoni@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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More data on homosexuality across pre-colonial Africa- https://mobile.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/Is-homosexuality-alien... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/09/being-gay-african-hist... http://blog.swaliafrica.com/the-homosexual-nature-of-africas-past/ http://www.lse.ac.uk/gender/assets/documents/research/graduate-working-paper... On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:21 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so? If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia? If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture? Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands. The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture. The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end. On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my thoughts below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email CONSTITUTION OF KENYA PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation: My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land: PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation: Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing. There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys! RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations: COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation: RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law: If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live? Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge! EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution: ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations. GOD BLESS KENYA These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. Twahir On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: @Alex I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs. The board has also given the reasons behind the ban. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki @Lawrence Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue? Please explain? There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything? So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament. Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me. Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then
it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on
the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com<mailto:dmuthoni@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos
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development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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-- ... 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Let me add this one as well http://sidneyochieng.co.ke/2010/04/homosexuality-in-pre-colonial-kenya/ On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 16:30 Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
More data on homosexuality across pre-colonial Africa-
https://mobile.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/Is-homosexuality-alien...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/09/being-gay-african-hist...
http://blog.swaliafrica.com/the-homosexual-nature-of-africas-past/
http://www.lse.ac.uk/gender/assets/documents/research/graduate-working-paper...
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:21 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture.
The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end.
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there
on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The minute one is judged by others rather than by reality, things become warped. Because incentives, biases, and politics obscure reality’s feedback loops. Gatekeepers keep gates far worse than a crowd of buyers. E Njoroge Mwangi Technology| FINTECH | Big Data Cell +44 7539372742 Skype: Erick.mwangi On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 2:33 PM, Wamathai (HapaKenya) via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Let me add this one as well
http://sidneyochieng.co.ke/2010/04/homosexuality-in-pre-colonial-kenya/
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 16:30 Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
More data on homosexuality across pre-colonial Africa-
https://mobile.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/Is- homosexuality-alien-or-not-to-Africa-369821
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/09/ being-gay-african-history-homosexuality-christianity
http://blog.swaliafrica.com/the-homosexual-nature-of-africas-past/
http://www.lse.ac.uk/gender/assets/documents/research/ graduate-working-papers/Postcolonial-Amnesia.pdf
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:21 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture.
The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end.
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
fast to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there
on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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platform
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the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos
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people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in
the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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Admin please. This is an ICT policy group. The topic of discussion does not correspond to the purpose. In any case I stand for the survival of the human race and not baseless thrills. On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 4:43 PM, Erick Mwangi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
The minute one is judged by others rather than by reality, things become warped. Because incentives, biases, and politics obscure reality’s feedback loops. Gatekeepers keep gates far worse than a crowd of buyers.
E Njoroge Mwangi Technology| FINTECH | Big Data
Cell +44 7539372742 Skype: Erick.mwangi
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 2:33 PM, Wamathai (HapaKenya) via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Let me add this one as well
http://sidneyochieng.co.ke/2010/04/homosexuality-in-pre-colonial-kenya/
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 16:30 Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
More data on homosexuality across pre-colonial Africa-
https://mobile.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/Is-hom osexuality-alien-or-not-to-Africa-369821
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/09/being- gay-african-history-homosexuality-christianity
http://blog.swaliafrica.com/the-homosexual-nature-of-africas-past/
http://www.lse.ac.uk/gender/assets/documents/research/gradua te-working-papers/Postcolonial-Amnesia.pdf
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:21 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture.
The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end.
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
fast to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the
main
storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere
there on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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-- Thank you, Best regards, Athar Ahmad Bhatti +2547264881311 Skype: atharab http://ke.linkedin.com/pub/athar-ahmad-bhatti/6/49b/374
There was a case in which NGO Board declined to register an NGO on account that it will be advancing homosexuality. A 1 Judge bench ruled in favor of the petitioner arguing that sex included sexual orientation which the Constitution protects. Its a long one but let me highlight some notes it; The Board and the Attorney General rely on their moral convictions and what they postulate to be the moral convictions of most Kenyans. They also rely on verses from the Bible, the Quran and various studies which they submit have been undertaken regarding homosexuality. We must emphasize, however, that no matter how strongly held moral and religious beliefs may be, they cannot be a basis for limiting rights: they are not laws as contemplated by the Constitution. Thus, neither the Penal Code, whose provisions we have set out above, which is the only legislation that the respondents rely on, nor the religious tenets that the Board cites, meet the constitutional test for limitation of rights. The wording of Article 27 is clear – the right to equality and non-discrimination applies to “every person”, the meaning of which we have already addressed. In addition, article 27(2) provides no internal qualifier and is written in broad terms of “equal enjoyment of all rights and fundamental freedoms”. In relation to Article 27(4), whilst it does not explicitly state that sexual orientation is a prohibited ground of discrimination, it prohibits discrimination both directly and indirectly against any person on any ground. The grounds that are listed are not exhaustive – this is evident from the use of “including” which is defined in article 259(4)(b) of the Constitution as meaning *“includes, but is not limited to”*. It appears to us that in the present case, the Board has acted in a manner that is unconstitutional and unlawful, and amounts to an abuse of power. It is not for the Board to only register NGOs whose names are in harmony with the personal views and convictions of its officials regarding gay and lesbian people. By refusing to register the proposed NGO because it objects to the name chosen for it, or because it considers that the group whose interests the proposed NGO seeks to advocate is not morally acceptable in Kenyan society, then it has arrogated to itself, contrary to the Constitution, the power to determine which person or persons are worthy of constitutional protection, and whose rights are guaranteed under the Constitution. Find it here... http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/108412/ On 30 April 2018 at 16:49, Athar Ahmad Bhatti via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Admin please. This is an ICT policy group. The topic of discussion does not correspond to the purpose. In any case I stand for the survival of the human race and not baseless thrills.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 4:43 PM, Erick Mwangi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
The minute one is judged by others rather than by reality, things become warped. Because incentives, biases, and politics obscure reality’s feedback loops. Gatekeepers keep gates far worse than a crowd of buyers.
E Njoroge Mwangi Technology| FINTECH | Big Data
Cell +44 7539372742 Skype: Erick.mwangi
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 2:33 PM, Wamathai (HapaKenya) via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Let me add this one as well
http://sidneyochieng.co.ke/2010/04/homosexuality-in-pre-colonial-kenya/
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 16:30 Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
More data on homosexuality across pre-colonial Africa-
https://mobile.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/Is-hom osexuality-alien-or-not-to-Africa-369821
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/09/being- gay-african-history-homosexuality-christianity
http://blog.swaliafrica.com/the-homosexual-nature-of-africas-past/
http://www.lse.ac.uk/gender/assets/documents/research/gradua te-working-papers/Postcolonial-Amnesia.pdf
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:21 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture.
The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end.
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
fast to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the
main
storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first
Kenyan film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere
there on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <
dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but
it was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
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behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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--
Thank you,
Best regards,
Athar Ahmad Bhatti
+2547264881311
Skype: atharab
http://ke.linkedin.com/pub/athar-ahmad-bhatti/6/49b/374
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Athar, Actually this does affect ICT policy. The Kenya Film Classification Board, according to its chair and the board itself, has the power to block(viewing/distribution) of not just films but really any video it deems to violate so called "morals and values" of Kenya. This a a threat not just to free speech but any businesses that make/distribute/sell videos online. The extremes of this were demonstrated when the board chair claimed that the video of that unfortunate deputy governor that surfaced the last couple of weeks was not authorised by the board and should be taken down. This was video that was taken by someones cellphone. Does that mean I need to check with KFCB every time I want to take a video on my phone? Could this be used one day to come after me if I took video of corruption happening? The censorship powers of the KFCB are far to broad. Hiding behind article 45 of the constitution is an impressive bit of slight of hand by the board. LGBTI community is not looking to get married, yet, they want to be treated as human beings. All this said I think it's time we got rid of the penal code in its entirety. On 30 April 2018 at 16:49, Athar Ahmad Bhatti via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Admin please. This is an ICT policy group. The topic of discussion does not correspond to the purpose. In any case I stand for the survival of the human race and not baseless thrills.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 4:43 PM, Erick Mwangi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
The minute one is judged by others rather than by reality, things become warped. Because incentives, biases, and politics obscure reality’s feedback loops. Gatekeepers keep gates far worse than a crowd of buyers.
E Njoroge Mwangi Technology| FINTECH | Big Data
Cell +44 7539372742 Skype: Erick.mwangi
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 2:33 PM, Wamathai (HapaKenya) via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Let me add this one as well
http://sidneyochieng.co.ke/2010/04/homosexuality-in-pre-colonial-kenya/
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 16:30 Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
More data on homosexuality across pre-colonial Africa-
https://mobile.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/Is-hom osexuality-alien-or-not-to-Africa-369821
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/09/being- gay-african-history-homosexuality-christianity
http://blog.swaliafrica.com/the-homosexual-nature-of-africas-past/
http://www.lse.ac.uk/gender/assets/documents/research/gradua te-working-papers/Postcolonial-Amnesia.pdf
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:21 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture.
The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end.
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
fast to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the
main
storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first
Kenyan film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere
there on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <
dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but
it was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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--
Thank you,
Best regards,
Athar Ahmad Bhatti
+2547264881311
Skype: atharab
http://ke.linkedin.com/pub/athar-ahmad-bhatti/6/49b/374
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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-- Regards, Sidney *Twitter:* @princelySid <https://twitter.com/princelySid> | *Web: * sidneyochieng.co.ke *Skype: *sidney.ochieng | *Github:* princelySid <https://github.com/princelySid>
Moral beliefs aside, I thought KFCB was moving from censorship to classification. Would it not have sufficed to classifying the film as only appropriate for adults and give warning if it contained violence, nudity and "lgbtqia" ? Our policy makers should also trust we, the society that donates them the power they wield, are reasonable human beings who can make good choices. PS: The paragraph in the letter implying that an artist must refer to the Board while changing a script is just sad. In a country where we want to grow the arts? Il lunedì 30 aprile 2018, Sidney Ochieng via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> ha scritto:
Athar, Actually this does affect ICT policy. The Kenya Film Classification Board, according to its chair and the board itself, has the power to block(viewing/distribution) of not just films but really any video it deems to violate so called "morals and values" of Kenya. This a a threat not just to free speech but any businesses that make/distribute/sell videos online. The extremes of this were demonstrated when the board chair claimed that the video of that unfortunate deputy governor that surfaced the last couple of weeks was not authorised by the board and should be taken down. This was video that was taken by someones cellphone. Does that mean I need to check with KFCB every time I want to take a video on my phone? Could this be used one day to come after me if I took video of corruption happening? The censorship powers of the KFCB are far to broad.
Hiding behind article 45 of the constitution is an impressive bit of slight of hand by the board. LGBTI community is not looking to get married, yet, they want to be treated as human beings.
All this said I think it's time we got rid of the penal code in its entirety.
On 30 April 2018 at 16:49, Athar Ahmad Bhatti via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Admin please. This is an ICT policy group. The topic of discussion does not correspond to the purpose. In any case I stand for the survival of the human race and not baseless thrills.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 4:43 PM, Erick Mwangi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
The minute one is judged by others rather than by reality, things become warped. Because incentives, biases, and politics obscure reality’s feedback loops. Gatekeepers keep gates far worse than a crowd of buyers.
E Njoroge Mwangi Technology| FINTECH | Big Data
Cell +44 7539372742 Skype: Erick.mwangi
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 2:33 PM, Wamathai (HapaKenya) via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Let me add this one as well
http://sidneyochieng.co.ke/2010/04/homosexuality-in-pre-colonial-kenya/
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 16:30 Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
More data on homosexuality across pre-colonial Africa-
https://mobile.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/Is-hom osexuality-alien-or-not-to-Africa-369821
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/09/being- gay-african-history-homosexuality-christianity
http://blog.swaliafrica.com/the-homosexual-nature-of-africas-past/
http://www.lse.ac.uk/gender/assets/documents/research/gradua te-working-papers/Postcolonial-Amnesia.pdf
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:21 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture.
The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end.
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> Does Kenya have a state religion?
> On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> Dear Alex,
> I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is > immoral and ungodly. > God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
> Leviticus 18:22 > You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
> Genesis 2:24 > Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his > wife, and they shall become one flesh.
> Regards
> -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Comninos via kictanet > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM > To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke > Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
> I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main > storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to > be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the > 8th of May.
> Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU
> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni < dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
> > What is the film about?
> > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >> Hi
> >> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an > >> LGBT film, Rafiki.
> >> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was > reversed > >> by the courts.
> >> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
> >> I am looking forward to the discussion.
> >> Kind regards, > >> Alex
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> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors > online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, > share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do > not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> -- > ... > Alex Comninos
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> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for > people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and > regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT > sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors > online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, > share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do > not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
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> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=lEmZ6eqzQeeVBgrhN7SA6sMu7HuwajuPExQgvOYP8L8&s=OmhwitnHVUvaO7-aqm6qhphWO-YL9hLPh7jdzjUNbwg&e=> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=lEmZ6eqzQeeVBgrhN7SA6sMu7HuwajuPExQgvOYP8L8&s=HX-T6W5LfUmugzrd4fn4dJxG9FsrdnX8ANM6p-3J3u8&e=> > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ > Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.eacdirectory.co.ke&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=lEmZ6eqzQeeVBgrhN7SA6sMu7HuwajuPExQgvOYP8L8&s=PIOBdfXycVbMCPnG-19ySzT36JZnfJH_AJHjmUGK7eY&e=>
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> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
________________________________ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=lEmZ6eqzQeeVBgrhN7SA6sMu7HuwajuPExQgvOYP8L8&s=OmhwitnHVUvaO7-aqm6qhphWO-YL9hLPh7jdzjUNbwg&e=> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=lEmZ6eqzQeeVBgrhN7SA6sMu7HuwajuPExQgvOYP8L8&s=HX-T6W5LfUmugzrd4fn4dJxG9FsrdnX8ANM6p-3J3u8&e=> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.eacdirectory.co.ke&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=lEmZ6eqzQeeVBgrhN7SA6sMu7HuwajuPExQgvOYP8L8&s=PIOBdfXycVbMCPnG-19ySzT36JZnfJH_AJHjmUGK7eY&e=>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=lEmZ6eqzQeeVBgrhN7SA6sMu7HuwajuPExQgvOYP8L8&s=OmhwitnHVUvaO7-aqm6qhphWO-YL9hLPh7jdzjUNbwg&e=> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=lEmZ6eqzQeeVBgrhN7SA6sMu7HuwajuPExQgvOYP8L8&s=HX-T6W5LfUmugzrd4fn4dJxG9FsrdnX8ANM6p-3J3u8&e=> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.eacdirectory.co.ke&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=lEmZ6eqzQeeVBgrhN7SA6sMu7HuwajuPExQgvOYP8L8&s=PIOBdfXycVbMCPnG-19ySzT36JZnfJH_AJHjmUGK7eY&e=>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__comninos.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=lEmZ6eqzQeeVBgrhN7SA6sMu7HuwajuPExQgvOYP8L8&s=LT5O7_ZxuPdrrj4qPTNyfZ5exROcfcney_KeryDXz3Q&e=>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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-- Regards, Sidney
*Twitter:* @princelySid <https://twitter.com/princelySid> | *Web: *s idneyochieng.co.ke *Skype: *sidney.ochieng | *Github:* princelySid <https://github.com/princelySid>
-- Grace Mutung'u Skype: gracebomu @Bomu PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
In addition to the matter of changing the script, any practicing filmmaker is aware that a script or screenplay is only a blueprint. As a screenwriter, I know only too well that the finished film is never the exact copy of the screenplay. It doesn't make sense to rate screenplays. Regards, Mildred Achoch. On Monday, April 30, 2018, Grace Bomu via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Moral beliefs aside, I thought KFCB was moving from censorship to classification. Would it not have sufficed to classifying the film as only appropriate for adults and give warning if it contained violence, nudity and "lgbtqia" ?
Our policy makers should also trust we, the society that donates them the power they wield, are reasonable human beings who can make good choices.
PS: The paragraph in the letter implying that an artist must refer to the Board while changing a script is just sad. In a country where we want to grow the arts?
Il lunedì 30 aprile 2018, Sidney Ochieng via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> ha scritto:
Athar, Actually this does affect ICT policy. The Kenya Film Classification Board, according to its chair and the board itself, has the power to block(viewing/distribution) of not just films but really any video it deems to violate so called "morals and values" of Kenya. This a a threat not just to free speech but any businesses that make/distribute/sell videos online. The extremes of this were demonstrated when the board chair claimed that the video of that unfortunate deputy governor that surfaced the last couple of weeks was not authorised by the board and should be taken down. This was video that was taken by someones cellphone. Does that mean I need to check with KFCB every time I want to take a video on my phone? Could this be used one day to come after me if I took video of corruption happening? The censorship powers of the KFCB are far to broad.
Hiding behind article 45 of the constitution is an impressive bit of slight of hand by the board. LGBTI community is not looking to get married, yet, they want to be treated as human beings.
All this said I think it's time we got rid of the penal code in its entirety.
On 30 April 2018 at 16:49, Athar Ahmad Bhatti via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Admin please. This is an ICT policy group. The topic of discussion does not correspond to the purpose. In any case I stand for the survival of the human race and not baseless thrills.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 4:43 PM, Erick Mwangi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
The minute one is judged by others rather than by reality, things become warped. Because incentives, biases, and politics obscure reality’s feedback loops. Gatekeepers keep gates far worse than a crowd of buyers.
E Njoroge Mwangi Technology| FINTECH | Big Data
Cell +44 7539372742 Skype: Erick.mwangi
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 2:33 PM, Wamathai (HapaKenya) via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Let me add this one as well
http://sidneyochieng.co.ke/2010/04/homosexuality-in-pre-colonial-kenya/
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 16:30 Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
More data on homosexuality across pre-colonial Africa-
https://mobile.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/Is- homosexuality-alien-or-not-to-Africa-369821
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/09/ being-gay-african-history-homosexuality-christianity
http://blog.swaliafrica.com/the-homosexual-nature-of-africas-past/
http://www.lse.ac.uk/gender/assets/documents/research/ graduate-working-papers/Postcolonial-Amnesia.pdf
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:21 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture.
The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end.
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there
on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
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behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
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--
Thank you,
Best regards,
Athar Ahmad Bhatti
+2547264881311
Skype: atharab
http://ke.linkedin.com/pub/athar-ahmad-bhatti/6/49b/374
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-- Regards, Sidney
*Twitter:* @princelySid <https://twitter.com/princelySid> | *Web: *s idneyochie <http://sidneyochieng.co.ke/>
-- Grace Mutung'u Skype: gracebomu @Bomu PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
-- Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com
Listers, I think the discussion here is a clear illustration of the Board’s thought process and by extension its poor decision. We first want to decide whether we agree with what the creative is portraying before we decide whether they deserve the right to say it or not. Hence a convoluted argument on whether we like/accept/condemn/loathe the LGBQTIA. We have missed the point entirely. Going back to what I said earlier on the media shutdown, whether we think highly of something or not, we must respect the author’s right to say it. On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 18:06, Mildred Achoch via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
In addition to the matter of changing the script, any practicing filmmaker is aware that a script or screenplay is only a blueprint. As a screenwriter, I know only too well that the finished film is never the exact copy of the screenplay. It doesn't make sense to rate screenplays.
Regards, Mildred Achoch.
On Monday, April 30, 2018, Grace Bomu via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Moral beliefs aside, I thought KFCB was moving from censorship to classification. Would it not have sufficed to classifying the film as only appropriate for adults and give warning if it contained violence, nudity and "lgbtqia" ?
Our policy makers should also trust we, the society that donates them the power they wield, are reasonable human beings who can make good choices.
PS: The paragraph in the letter implying that an artist must refer to the Board while changing a script is just sad. In a country where we want to grow the arts?
Il lunedì 30 aprile 2018, Sidney Ochieng via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> ha scritto:
Athar, Actually this does affect ICT policy. The Kenya Film Classification Board, according to its chair and the board itself, has the power to block(viewing/distribution) of not just films but really any video it deems to violate so called "morals and values" of Kenya. This a a threat not just to free speech but any businesses that make/distribute/sell videos online. The extremes of this were demonstrated when the board chair claimed that the video of that unfortunate deputy governor that surfaced the last couple of weeks was not authorised by the board and should be taken down. This was video that was taken by someones cellphone. Does that mean I need to check with KFCB every time I want to take a video on my phone? Could this be used one day to come after me if I took video of corruption happening? The censorship powers of the KFCB are far to broad.
Hiding behind article 45 of the constitution is an impressive bit of slight of hand by the board. LGBTI community is not looking to get married, yet, they want to be treated as human beings.
All this said I think it's time we got rid of the penal code in its entirety.
On 30 April 2018 at 16:49, Athar Ahmad Bhatti via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Admin please. This is an ICT policy group. The topic of discussion does not correspond to the purpose. In any case I stand for the survival of the human race and not baseless thrills.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 4:43 PM, Erick Mwangi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
The minute one is judged by others rather than by reality, things become warped. Because incentives, biases, and politics obscure reality’s feedback loops. Gatekeepers keep gates far worse than a crowd of buyers.
E Njoroge Mwangi Technology| FINTECH | Big Data
Cell +44 7539372742 Skype: Erick.mwangi
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 2:33 PM, Wamathai (HapaKenya) via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Let me add this one as well
http://sidneyochieng.co.ke/2010/04/homosexuality-in-pre-colonial-kenya/
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 16:30 Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
More data on homosexuality across pre-colonial Africa-
https://mobile.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/Is-homosexuality-alien...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/09/being-gay-african-hist...
http://blog.swaliafrica.com/the-homosexual-nature-of-africas-past/
http://www.lse.ac.uk/gender/assets/documents/research/graduate-working-paper...
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:21 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture.
The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end.
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
fast to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there
on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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--
Thank you,
Best regards,
Athar Ahmad Bhatti
+2547264881311
Skype: atharab
http://ke.linkedin.com/pub/athar-ahmad-bhatti/6/49b/374
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-- Regards, Sidney
*Twitter:* @princelySid <https://twitter.com/princelySid> | *Web: * sidneyochie <http://sidneyochieng.co.ke/>
-- Grace Mutung'u Skype: gracebomu @Bomu PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
-- Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com
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-- *Mercy Mutemi, Advocate*.
Deal all, I don't want to dwell in religion when it comes to some issues. However, it is important to underscore whether the Film Board went overboard, or the film is meant to ruffle our diverse cultural heritage. As an individual, I laud the banning of the film (whether it receives an Oscar or not). Reason? If it's promoting or giving 'hope' to lesbians, my personal morals (underline) have been stepped on. My point is that we need to question tje mandate of KFCB vs. cultural erosion. Regards, Solomon On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 21:55 kanini mutemi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
I think the discussion here is a clear illustration of the Board’s thought process and by extension its poor decision. We first want to decide whether we agree with what the creative is portraying before we decide whether they deserve the right to say it or not. Hence a convoluted argument on whether we like/accept/condemn/loathe the LGBQTIA. We have missed the point entirely. Going back to what I said earlier on the media shutdown, whether we think highly of something or not, we must respect the author’s right to say it.
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 18:06, Mildred Achoch via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
In addition to the matter of changing the script, any practicing filmmaker is aware that a script or screenplay is only a blueprint. As a screenwriter, I know only too well that the finished film is never the exact copy of the screenplay. It doesn't make sense to rate screenplays.
Regards, Mildred Achoch.
On Monday, April 30, 2018, Grace Bomu via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Moral beliefs aside, I thought KFCB was moving from censorship to classification. Would it not have sufficed to classifying the film as only appropriate for adults and give warning if it contained violence, nudity and "lgbtqia" ?
Our policy makers should also trust we, the society that donates them the power they wield, are reasonable human beings who can make good choices.
PS: The paragraph in the letter implying that an artist must refer to the Board while changing a script is just sad. In a country where we want to grow the arts?
Il lunedì 30 aprile 2018, Sidney Ochieng via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> ha scritto:
Athar, Actually this does affect ICT policy. The Kenya Film Classification Board, according to its chair and the board itself, has the power to block(viewing/distribution) of not just films but really any video it deems to violate so called "morals and values" of Kenya. This a a threat not just to free speech but any businesses that make/distribute/sell videos online. The extremes of this were demonstrated when the board chair claimed that the video of that unfortunate deputy governor that surfaced the last couple of weeks was not authorised by the board and should be taken down. This was video that was taken by someones cellphone. Does that mean I need to check with KFCB every time I want to take a video on my phone? Could this be used one day to come after me if I took video of corruption happening? The censorship powers of the KFCB are far to broad.
Hiding behind article 45 of the constitution is an impressive bit of slight of hand by the board. LGBTI community is not looking to get married, yet, they want to be treated as human beings.
All this said I think it's time we got rid of the penal code in its entirety.
On 30 April 2018 at 16:49, Athar Ahmad Bhatti via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Admin please. This is an ICT policy group. The topic of discussion does not correspond to the purpose. In any case I stand for the survival of the human race and not baseless thrills.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 4:43 PM, Erick Mwangi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
The minute one is judged by others rather than by reality, things become warped. Because incentives, biases, and politics obscure reality’s feedback loops. Gatekeepers keep gates far worse than a crowd of buyers.
E Njoroge Mwangi Technology| FINTECH | Big Data
Cell +44 7539372742 Skype: Erick.mwangi
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 2:33 PM, Wamathai (HapaKenya) via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Let me add this one as well
http://sidneyochieng.co.ke/2010/04/homosexuality-in-pre-colonial-kenya/
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 16:30 Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
More data on homosexuality across pre-colonial Africa-
https://mobile.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/Is-homosexuality-alien...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/09/being-gay-african-hist...
http://blog.swaliafrica.com/the-homosexual-nature-of-africas-past/
http://www.lse.ac.uk/gender/assets/documents/research/graduate-working-paper...
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:21 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture.
The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end.
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
fast to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the
main
storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere
there on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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--
Thank you,
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Ebele that is LGBT-biased literature. Drawing people on with Christianity was brought by colonists so let's embrace this craziness. The fact that you shared it herein is not relevant to ICT issues. Trying to beat that its not a Kenyan value - does not make the LGBT values Kenyan either. That tangent of thought is unhealthy. Its not even a more open way of thinking. Its just not a necessary list to make. On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
More data on homosexuality across pre-colonial Africa-
https://mobile.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/Is- homosexuality-alien-or-not-to-Africa-369821
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/09/ being-gay-african-history-homosexuality-christianity
http://blog.swaliafrica.com/the-homosexual-nature-of-africas-past/
http://www.lse.ac.uk/gender/assets/documents/research/ graduate-working-papers/Postcolonial-Amnesia.pdf
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:21 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture.
The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end.
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there
on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
platform
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ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
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behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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-- Sincerely, L.W. Gichaga, PhD *The BEST is yet ahead! * ●Twitter: @LWGichaga <https://twitter.com/LWGichaga> ● Pinterest <https://t.co/uS0z68mKmF>
Ebele, Thanks for the insight into Igbo cultures and traditions. Here too amongst the Miji Kenda tribes we have had those traditions of female husbands BUT as you rightly stated it was for the purpose of getting children; we had a saying as we were growing up "Amenunua kitabu asomewe" literally translated means "she has bought a book to be read by others!". It is a biological impossibility for a woman to impregnate another woman! It was understood that such relationships weren't of a sexual nature rather a symbiotic relation. There was nothing *gay* in the sense we understand it now. Twahir On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 16:17 Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com> wrote:
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture.
The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end.
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there
on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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In Igbo culture, the wives would be impregnated by men, (usually married men) but would live as wives, in every sense of the word, with their husband wife. Same way current same sex marriages get sperm donors, but with less technology. ;-) Not sure how you can confirm, without having installed yourself in all of those beds/mats/huts across all of those ethnic groups, across all of those centuries, across the Continent, that there was no sex. It’s actually amusing the lengths we go to pretend same sex relationships aren’t “African”. Have a look at the articles sent previously-they are eye opening. But I’m happy to move this conversation off of the list-look forward to seeing many of you Wednesday! On Apr 30, 2018, at 6:07 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim <twahir@hussein.me.ke<mailto:twahir@hussein.me.ke>> wrote: Ebele, Thanks for the insight into Igbo cultures and traditions. Here too amongst the Miji Kenda tribes we have had those traditions of female husbands BUT as you rightly stated it was for the purpose of getting children; we had a saying as we were growing up "Amenunua kitabu asomewe" literally translated means "she has bought a book to be read by others!". It is a biological impossibility for a woman to impregnate another woman! It was understood that such relationships weren't of a sexual nature rather a symbiotic relation. There was nothing gay in the sense we understand it now. Twahir On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 16:17 Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com>> wrote: Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so? If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia? If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture? Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands. The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture. The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end. On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my thoughts below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email CONSTITUTION OF KENYA PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation: My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land: PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation: Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing. There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys! RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations: COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation: RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law: If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live? Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge! EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution: ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations. GOD BLESS KENYA These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. Twahir On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: @Alex I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs. The board has also given the reasons behind the ban. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki @Lawrence Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue? Please explain? There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything? So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament. Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me. Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then
it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on
the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com<mailto:dmuthoni@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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Ebele, As mentioned by others, there is a supposition of no State Religion.. Article 8 of the conflicted 2010 Kenya Constitution. Here is a Christian fundamental.. (stated in 3 different ways) (i) Christianity is not a Theocracy - John 6:15. (ii) Christ does not reign in a corrupt people/world which rejects him. John 18:36 (iii) Christ rules only over those who believe in and follow him. Luke 17:21 As such, Christendom (actual practitioners of Christianity) in Kenya opposed the entrenchment of any one religion in the 2010 constitution. Sodomy supporters and polygamists (generally opposed to sodomy and Christianity) united in attacking Christianity in Kenya. https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/opinion/Why-the-No-campaign- could-destroy-the-Church-/440808-914652-q0rigu/index.html Articles 24 (4) and 170 are in direct conflict with Article 27. Article 170 creates positions which can only be occupied by males of one particular religion. https://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/quotes/constitution-of-kenya-article-24... http://www.klrc.go.ke/index.php/constitution-of-kenya/112-chapter-four-the-b... Neither polygamy nor sodomy introduced literacy or modern health care in Africa. It was Christian missions. Christianity (do to others as you would have them do you) is as "foreign", as Africans posting on Facebook pages. African communications were historically and primarily ORAL not written :) If Facebook pitched initially pitched itself as an LGBT network would it be as massive as it is today? Is it not true, some developed nations are paying their citizens to procreate? How does sodomy promote their survival? When do you hear of decent procreating couples (spouses) complaining they have been rejected at some Gay Club? On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 8:24 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
In Igbo culture, the wives would be impregnated by men, (usually married men) but would live as wives, in every sense of the word, with their husband wife. Same way current same sex marriages get sperm donors, but with less technology. ;-) Not sure how you can confirm, without having installed yourself in all of those beds/mats/huts across all of those ethnic groups, across all of those centuries, across the Continent, that there was no sex.
It’s actually amusing the lengths we go to pretend same sex relationships aren’t “African”. Have a look at the articles sent previously-they are eye opening.
But I’m happy to move this conversation off of the list-look forward to seeing many of you Wednesday!
On Apr 30, 2018, at 6:07 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim <twahir@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Ebele,
Thanks for the insight into Igbo cultures and traditions. Here too amongst the Miji Kenda tribes we have had those traditions of female husbands BUT as you rightly stated it was for the purpose of getting children; we had a saying as we were growing up "Amenunua kitabu asomewe" literally translated means "she has bought a book to be read by others!". It is a biological impossibility for a woman to impregnate another woman! It was understood that such relationships weren't of a sexual nature rather a symbiotic relation. There was nothing *gay* in the sense we understand it now.
Twahir
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 16:17 Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com> wrote:
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture.
The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end.
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
fast to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there
on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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On 30 April 2018 at 16:17, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
@Ebele, is that Igbo practice the same thing as Lesbianism (or homosexuality for that matter)? NO. That practice of women marrying women and those wives bearing children for their woman husbands is far away from LGBT. The women don't go having those weird moments with their wives! These women marry other women because they are barren and so their wives "help" them get children. Ultimately, men sleep with and impregnate these wives - with the consent of their women husbands. Wait, were you trying to justify some portion of the raging debate with that illustration of Igbo culture? :-) PS: Everyone - methinks this post is irrelevant and will not end up bringing forth any policy formulation with a bearing towards ICTs, which is what this forum is all about. The moment religion rears its ugly head in any discussion, that usually marks the "tower of Babel" moment. *So I intend to kill this thread before it becomes the longest, yet useless thread, that KICTANet has ever had. Anyone opposed to that decision, please raise your hands :-)* {List Technical Admin] -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft."
Washington: How will policy on sexual orientation and gender identity and expression online be formulated without recourse to its grounding in religion and morality and human rights? This issue is 100% a KICTANET issue. KICTANET mailing list is a platform that sees a converge of diverse points of view. When this issue was raised back in 2016, I was ordered to drop it because ‘It is not within KICTANet’s scope’. This was by a KICTANET convener. Now I see entitlement is leading to censorship on what can and cannot be discussed here. KICTANET the registered organization does not own the mailing list. You guys may organise and maintain it - a GREAT service to the Kenyan ICT community - but do not assume you own it. Occasionally you issue statements claiming they are ‘KCTANET’ positions. Perhaps it is time you categorically indicate that they represent those who intentionally signed up on them instead of dragging everyone into all the positions because as this discussion and the previous on Election Act amendment in 2017 illustrated, we have no common position on most things - we are here to discuss. -Moses
On 30 Apr 2018, at 13:13, Odhiambo Washington via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
On 30 April 2018 at 16:17, Ebele Okobi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
@Ebele, is that Igbo practice the same thing as Lesbianism (or homosexuality for that matter)? NO. That practice of women marrying women and those wives bearing children for their woman husbands is far away from LGBT. The women don't go having those weird moments with their wives! These women marry other women because they are barren and so their wives "help" them get children. Ultimately, men sleep with and impregnate these wives - with the consent of their women husbands. Wait, were you trying to justify some portion of the raging debate with that illustration of Igbo culture? :-)
PS: Everyone - methinks this post is irrelevant and will not end up bringing forth any policy formulation with a bearing towards ICTs, which is what this forum is all about. The moment religion rears its ugly head in any discussion, that usually marks the "tower of Babel" moment. So I intend to kill this thread before it becomes the longest, yet useless thread, that KICTANet has ever had. Anyone opposed to that decision, please raise your hands :-)
{List Technical Admin]
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft." _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Ebele I’m curious about the Igbo culture of same sex marriage. Forgive me for asking but was this relationship of a sexual nature or of a companionship nature? I ask because some members of the Mijikenda tribe at the coast of Kenya have the same arrangement but these marriages were conceived mainly from a cultural companionship perspective as opposed to a sexual one. And yes, these ‘wives’ bore children through men. Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle Sent from my iPad
On 30 Apr 2018, at 4:17 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture.
The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end.
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my thoughts below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok.
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.
There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?
Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. Twahir
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: @Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then
it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on
the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
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We didn't have lesbianism before Chrstianity came. On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture.
The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end.
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there
on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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-- Sincerely, L.W. Gichaga, PhD *The BEST is yet ahead! * ●Twitter: @LWGichaga <https://twitter.com/LWGichaga> ● Pinterest <https://t.co/uS0z68mKmF>
It is not about religion. These things like LGBT re just against the norms in our African culture with or without Christianity. From: Lucy Gichaga via kictanet Sent: Monday, May 07, 2018 11:57 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Lucy Gichaga Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki We didn't have lesbianism before Chrstianity came. On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so? If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia? If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture? Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands. The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture. The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end. On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my thoughts below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email CONSTITUTION OF KENYA PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation: My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land: PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation: Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing. There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys! RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations: COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation: RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law: If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live? Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge! EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution: ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations. GOD BLESS KENYA These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. Twahir On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: @Alex I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs. The board has also given the reasons behind the ban. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki @Lawrence Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue? Please explain? There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything? So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament. Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me. Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: > Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience. > Regards > From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM > To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke > Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki > KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold. > And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities. > Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship. > Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution: > 32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION > (1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion. > (2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship. > (3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion. > (4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion. > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: >> Does Kenya have a state religion? >> On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: >> Dear Alex, >> I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is >> immoral and ungodly. >> God only approves a relation between a man and a woman >> Leviticus 18:22 >> You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. >> Genesis 2:24 >> Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his >> wife, and they shall become one flesh. >> Regards >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alex Comninos via kictanet >> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM >> To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke >> Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki >> I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main >> storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to >> be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the >> 8th of May. >> Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU >> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote: >> > What is the film about? >> > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an >> >> LGBT film, Rafiki. >> >> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was >> reversed >> >> by the courts. >> >> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list. >> >> I am looking forward to the discussion. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Alex >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> kictanet mailing list >> >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e= >> >> Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e= >> >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >> >> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke >> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_dmuthoni-2540gmail.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=cV_kzVSAVxODhlmSGR0F5JTzQg11XsEHPKkWiNxNJkI&e= >> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform >> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy >> and >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >> -- >> ... >> Alex Comninos https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__comninos.org&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=1VGBkFQz9Mn9VQt6ZQl_kT2TxpZDx66Gg_t5ufF1Ifc&e= >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e= >> Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e= >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke >> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ldinga-2540managecom.co.ke&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=zMQ1yVUkpoJexE9hu6-hstpD13ucCEAzqiSMTCejPgU&e= >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for >> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e= >> Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e= >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke >> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ebeleokobi-2540fb.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=FxPAgWG7fD9hpH3dqPuXDy2YSOg35hkDrQdnOqAbGbk&e= >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke >> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafr... >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. > ________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ > Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke > Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ldinga%40managecom.co.... > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ > Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke > Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alex.comninos%40gmail.... > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/twahir%40hussein.me.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=lEmZ6eqzQeeVBgrhN7SA6sMu7HuwajuPExQgvOYP8L8&s=OmhwitnHVUvaO7-aqm6qhphWO-YL9hLPh7jdzjUNbwg&e= Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=lEmZ6eqzQeeVBgrhN7SA6sMu7HuwajuPExQgvOYP8L8&s=HX-T6W5LfUmugzrd4fn4dJxG9FsrdnX8ANM6p-3J3u8&e= Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ebeleokobi-2540fb.com&d=DwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=lEmZ6eqzQeeVBgrhN7SA6sMu7HuwajuPExQgvOYP8L8&s=LWeSzhyOulCSUaZxi2-_xwegTDmEzU-q-nS-0oq2-eQ&e= The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lw.gichaga%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Sincerely, L.W. Gichaga, PhD The BEST is yet ahead! ●Twitter: @LWGichaga ● Pinterest -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ldinga%40managecom.co.... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hi Lucy, Its good you bring the issue of the National Value System which was also a silent pillar in the Vision 2030 document. In as much as we want to ignore this pillar , it is key for any nation that is development conscious. We must recognize that in as much as we have a right to debate leaders have a responsibility to make decisions that shape the Society based on what the society subscribes to as values. Best Regards On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 5:18 AM, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
It is not about religion. These things like LGBT re just against the norms in our African culture with or without Christianity.
*From:* Lucy Gichaga via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Monday, May 07, 2018 11:57 PM *To:* ldinga@managecom.co.ke *Cc:* Lucy Gichaga <lw.gichaga@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
We didn't have lesbianism before Chrstianity came.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How so?
If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part of one’s culture?
Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had, prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage, in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear children for their women husbands.
The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture.
The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end.
On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
*If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
fast to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there
on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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Spot on Twahir, Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters. If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues. As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority. Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted? I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal. #We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting. walu. On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my thoughts below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email CONSTITUTION OF KENYA PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation: My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land: PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation: Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing. There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys! RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations: COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation: RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law: If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live? Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge! EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution: ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations. GOD BLESS KENYA These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. Twahir On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: @Alex I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs. The board has also given the reasons behind the ban. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki @Lawrence Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue? Please explain? There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything? So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament. Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me. Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an >> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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Walu - sorry but for once I fundamentally disagree with you, because this argument fails to notice one thing. We have a choice to watch any movie made - we choose if we sit in front of the TV and watch it - we are not handcuffed to the couch. My point is - just as you or anyone else has a choice not to view the content, others who wish to watch it in the privacy of their homes should be free to do so. If no one imposes their enjoyment of a film on you - why should your disagreement with the content be imposed on others? Andrew Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ________________________________ From: kictanet <kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 7:13:00 PM To: Andrew Alston Cc: Walubengo J Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki Spot on Twahir, Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters. If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues. As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority. Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted? I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal. #We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting. walu. On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my thoughts below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email CONSTITUTION OF KENYA PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation: My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land: PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation: Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing. There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys! RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations: COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation: RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law: If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live? Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge! EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution: ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations. GOD BLESS KENYA These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. Twahir On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: @Alex I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs. The board has also given the reasons behind the ban. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki @Lawrence Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue? Please explain? There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything? So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament. Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me. Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then
it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on
the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU>
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com<mailto:dmuthoni@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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Walu, you are wrong in so many levels. All our societal issues are not mutually exclusive, and every actor has their role. There are those who push for better maternal healthcare, and they will not work in areas of mining rights. Those dealing with extrajudicial killings have no interest in cross-border trade. You cannot say now you will pursue flooding menace, and ignore road carnage. You cannot pursue healthcare problems, and ignore education or drought. We cannot pursue corruption and ignore markets for our produce. And who is pushing what on who's throat? Since when did sexual rights become a mzungu thing? On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 7:47 PM Andrew Alston via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Walu - sorry but for once I fundamentally disagree with you, because this argument fails to notice one thing.
We have a choice to watch any movie made - we choose if we sit in front of the TV and watch it - we are not handcuffed to the couch.
My point is - just as you or anyone else has a choice not to view the content, others who wish to watch it in the privacy of their homes should be free to do so.
If no one imposes their enjoyment of a film on you - why should your disagreement with the content be imposed on others?
Andrew
Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ------------------------------ *From:* kictanet <kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston= liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Monday, April 30, 2018 7:13:00 PM *To:* Andrew Alston *Cc:* Walubengo J *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
Spot on Twahir,
Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters.
If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues.
As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority.
Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted?
I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal.
#We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting.
walu.
On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there
on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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behaviors
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@Washington: It is one of those debates that remind us that ICT is everywhere. Let people express their views. @Walu, storytelling is part of human development. That a story gives a different point of view from yours is part of the dynamics of culture. At the risk of disclosing my age, in my staunch Catholic household, we enjoyed Ramayan (a Hindu movie with lots of snakes) on Sundays; we read this book about Tekayo who was a cannibal; we watch Afrosinema where we see witchcraft....it just helps us travel to other worlds beyond ours. Again, the role of KFCB should just be to tell us what is in the film. We can make choices on whether to watch it or not depending on our religious or other convictions and interests. At least that is what moving from a censorship to a classification policy should mean. 2018-04-30 20:19 GMT+03:00 Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>:
Walu, you are wrong in so many levels.
All our societal issues are not mutually exclusive, and every actor has their role. There are those who push for better maternal healthcare, and they will not work in areas of mining rights. Those dealing with extrajudicial killings have no interest in cross-border trade. You cannot say now you will pursue flooding menace, and ignore road carnage. You cannot pursue healthcare problems, and ignore education or drought. We cannot pursue corruption and ignore markets for our produce.
And who is pushing what on who's throat? Since when did sexual rights become a mzungu thing?
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 7:47 PM Andrew Alston via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Walu - sorry but for once I fundamentally disagree with you, because this argument fails to notice one thing.
We have a choice to watch any movie made - we choose if we sit in front of the TV and watch it - we are not handcuffed to the couch.
My point is - just as you or anyone else has a choice not to view the content, others who wish to watch it in the privacy of their homes should be free to do so.
If no one imposes their enjoyment of a film on you - why should your disagreement with the content be imposed on others?
Andrew
Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ------------------------------ *From:* kictanet <kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=liquidtelecom.com@ lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of Walubengo J via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Monday, April 30, 2018 7:13:00 PM *To:* Andrew Alston *Cc:* Walubengo J *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
Spot on Twahir,
Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters.
If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues.
As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority.
Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted?
I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal.
#We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting.
walu.
On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
fast to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there
on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
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-- Grace Mutung'u Skype: gracebomu @Bomu PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
+1 Grace, I have to agree – this issue may not be directly ICT related – but strong parallels can be drawn and it crosses the boundaries of ICT and general principles related to legal aspects, human rights and various other areas. If this is not the forum for such a debate, what is? Because I do believe that such a debate needs to be had – without such contentious debates how do we advance? It is through the avoidance of sensitive subjects in the name of avoiding discomfort and in the same of political correctness that results in issues never getting dealt with and serves as a catalyst for further division and stigmatization – let the debate continue 😊 Andrew From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Grace Bomu via kictanet Sent: 30 April 2018 20:33 To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> Cc: Grace Bomu <nmutungu@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki @Washington: It is one of those debates that remind us that ICT is everywhere. Let people express their views. @Walu, storytelling is part of human development. That a story gives a different point of view from yours is part of the dynamics of culture. At the risk of disclosing my age, in my staunch Catholic household, we enjoyed Ramayan (a Hindu movie with lots of snakes) on Sundays; we read this book about Tekayo who was a cannibal; we watch Afrosinema where we see witchcraft....it just helps us travel to other worlds beyond ours. Again, the role of KFCB should just be to tell us what is in the film. We can make choices on whether to watch it or not depending on our religious or other convictions and interests. At least that is what moving from a censorship to a classification policy should mean. 2018-04-30 20:19 GMT+03:00 Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>>: Walu, you are wrong in so many levels. All our societal issues are not mutually exclusive, and every actor has their role. There are those who push for better maternal healthcare, and they will not work in areas of mining rights. Those dealing with extrajudicial killings have no interest in cross-border trade. You cannot say now you will pursue flooding menace, and ignore road carnage. You cannot pursue healthcare problems, and ignore education or drought. We cannot pursue corruption and ignore markets for our produce. And who is pushing what on who's throat? Since when did sexual rights become a mzungu thing? On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 7:47 PM Andrew Alston via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Walu - sorry but for once I fundamentally disagree with you, because this argument fails to notice one thing. We have a choice to watch any movie made - we choose if we sit in front of the TV and watch it - we are not handcuffed to the couch. My point is - just as you or anyone else has a choice not to view the content, others who wish to watch it in the privacy of their homes should be free to do so. If no one imposes their enjoyment of a film on you - why should your disagreement with the content be imposed on others? Andrew Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ________________________________ From: kictanet <kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> on behalf of Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 7:13:00 PM To: Andrew Alston Cc: Walubengo J Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki Spot on Twahir, Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters. If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues. As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority. Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted? I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal. #We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting. walu. On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my thoughts below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email CONSTITUTION OF KENYA PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation: My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land: PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation: Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing. There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys! RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations: COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation: RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law: If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live? Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge! EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution: ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations. GOD BLESS KENYA These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. Twahir On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: @Alex I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs. The board has also given the reasons behind the ban. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki @Lawrence Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue? Please explain? There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything? So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament. Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me. Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then
it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on
the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU>
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com<mailto:dmuthoni@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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Washington, killing the tread will amount to internet censorship on the list. It has been argued here that this thread actually has an ICT component because of the intersection of the internet with creative content, and also the role of KFCB plays in the sector On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 8:19 PM Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
Walu, you are wrong in so many levels.
All our societal issues are not mutually exclusive, and every actor has their role. There are those who push for better maternal healthcare, and they will not work in areas of mining rights. Those dealing with extrajudicial killings have no interest in cross-border trade. You cannot say now you will pursue flooding menace, and ignore road carnage. You cannot pursue healthcare problems, and ignore education or drought. We cannot pursue corruption and ignore markets for our produce.
And who is pushing what on who's throat? Since when did sexual rights become a mzungu thing?
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 7:47 PM Andrew Alston via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Walu - sorry but for once I fundamentally disagree with you, because this argument fails to notice one thing.
We have a choice to watch any movie made - we choose if we sit in front of the TV and watch it - we are not handcuffed to the couch.
My point is - just as you or anyone else has a choice not to view the content, others who wish to watch it in the privacy of their homes should be free to do so.
If no one imposes their enjoyment of a film on you - why should your disagreement with the content be imposed on others?
Andrew
Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ------------------------------ *From:* kictanet <kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston= liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Monday, April 30, 2018 7:13:00 PM *To:* Andrew Alston *Cc:* Walubengo J *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
Spot on Twahir,
Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters.
If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues.
As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority.
Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted?
I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal.
#We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting.
walu.
On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
fast to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there
on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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I disagree with you Walu on multiple levels here. 1. You say 'Forced down on us by mainly foreign money/masters'. You erase all those brave Kenyans who have stood up in the face of homophobia and bigotry and asked for basic human recognition at the risk of their physical and social risks. In instances where this has a face of western money, do you also not accept money from the same donors for roads, agriculture, and ‘Internet freedom’? It is hypocritical. 2. Some issues [like fighting corruption and service delivery] are more important than human rights for minorities. You assume that these issue are mutually exclusive and that you, and not others, have the authority to rank what is important and worthy of attention. If you would look through Kenya’s health policy for the last 20 years, you would see how the issue of homosexuality and the stigma associated with it limits the effectiveness of HIV/AIDS prevention campaigns. Psychiatry clinics and substance abuse rehabilitation centres are littered with humans struggling with extreme forms of social and physical strains. Most humans who identify as sexual minorities fear visibility for obvious physical and social risks associated with it yet these are key populations who are more exposed to risky lifestyles that make spreading HIV much subtle and harder to contain due to their anonymity. These human rights are less about sex and more about public life experiences and policies. 3. You trivialize sexual orientation and gender identity communities by your LGBT'x-y-z’ wording and LGBT-'whatever'. It is a pity that instead of probing further on why those identities exist, you wish them away because 'they are growing faster than I can interpret them'. Talk of entitlement: unless I can understand it, it is absurd. Leave a lot of question marks. I expected better justification but what I read was all bigotry and entitlement. -Moses
On 30 Apr 2018, at 12:13, Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Spot on Twahir,
Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters.
If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues.
As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority.
Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted?
I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal.
#We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting.
walu.
On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my thoughts below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok.
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.
There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?
Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone.
Twahir
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: @Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke <mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke <mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then
it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke <mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on
the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU>
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com <mailto:dmuthoni@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
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Hi Mose, Andrew et al, Googling 'bigotry'...and LGBT-xxx May get back to you, but if I dont, just know I am not well equipped to deal with moral issues from a legal perspective ;-) But I hear you. walu. On Monday, April 30, 2018, 8:00:33 PM GMT+3, Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> wrote: I disagree with you Walu on multiple levels here. 1. You say 'Forced down on us by mainly foreign money/masters'. You erase all those brave Kenyans who have stood up in the face of homophobia and bigotry and asked for basic human recognition at the risk of their physical and social risks. In instances where this has a face of western money, do you also not accept money from the same donors for roads, agriculture, and ‘Internet freedom’? It is hypocritical. 2. Some issues [like fighting corruption and service delivery] are more important than human rights for minorities. You assume that these issue are mutually exclusive and that you, and not others, have the authority to rank what is important and worthy of attention. If you would look through Kenya’s health policy for the last 20 years, you would see how the issue of homosexuality and the stigma associated with it limits the effectiveness of HIV/AIDS prevention campaigns. Psychiatry clinics and substance abuse rehabilitation centres are littered with humans struggling with extreme forms of social and physical strains. Most humans who identify as sexual minorities fear visibility for obvious physical and social risks associated with it yet these are key populations who are more exposed to risky lifestyles that make spreading HIV much subtle and harder to contain due to their anonymity. These human rights are less about sex and more about public life experiences and policies. 3. You trivialize sexual orientation and gender identity communities by your LGBT'x-y-z’ wording and LGBT-'whatever'. It is a pity that instead of probing further on why those identities exist, you wish them away because 'they are growing faster than I can interpret them'. Talk of entitlement: unless I can understand it, it is absurd. Leave a lot of question marks. I expected better justification but what I read was all bigotry and entitlement. -Moses On 30 Apr 2018, at 12:13, Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Spot on Twahir, Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters. If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues. As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority. Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted? I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal. #We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting. walu. On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my thoughts below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email CONSTITUTION OF KENYA PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation: My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land: PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation: Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing. There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys! RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations: COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation: RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law: If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live? Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge! EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution: ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations. GOD BLESS KENYA These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. Twahir On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: @Alex I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs. The board has also given the reasons behind the ban. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki @Lawrence Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue? Please explain? There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything? So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament. Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me. Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an >> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/twahir%40hussein.me.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mosekaranja%40gmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Whatever arguments we may put across, lesbianism and gayism is an outside culture in Kenya and even in most African societies. As I said before, it is about morality but it is relative/subjective and depends more on one’s conscience and beliefs. I wonder why this topic has elicited so much arguments, a lot more than many ICT oriented topics which have been brought on the wall. Regards From: Mose Karanja via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 8:00 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mose Karanja Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki I disagree with you Walu on multiple levels here. 1. You say 'Forced down on us by mainly foreign money/masters'. You erase all those brave Kenyans who have stood up in the face of homophobia and bigotry and asked for basic human recognition at the risk of their physical and social risks. In instances where this has a face of western money, do you also not accept money from the same donors for roads, agriculture, and ‘Internet freedom’? It is hypocritical. 2. Some issues [like fighting corruption and service delivery] are more important than human rights for minorities. You assume that these issue are mutually exclusive and that you, and not others, have the authority to rank what is important and worthy of attention. If you would look through Kenya’s health policy for the last 20 years, you would see how the issue of homosexuality and the stigma associated with it limits the effectiveness of HIV/AIDS prevention campaigns. Psychiatry clinics and substance abuse rehabilitation centres are littered with humans struggling with extreme forms of social and physical strains. Most humans who identify as sexual minorities fear visibility for obvious physical and social risks associated with it yet these are key populations who are more exposed to risky lifestyles that make spreading HIV much subtle and harder to contain due to their anonymity. These human rights are less about sex and more about public life experiences and policies. 3. You trivialize sexual orientation and gender identity communities by your LGBT'x-y-z’ wording and LGBT-'whatever'. It is a pity that instead of probing further on why those identities exist, you wish them away because 'they are growing faster than I can interpret them'. Talk of entitlement: unless I can understand it, it is absurd. Leave a lot of question marks. I expected better justification but what I read was all bigotry and entitlement. -Moses On 30 Apr 2018, at 12:13, Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Spot on Twahir, Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters. If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues. As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority. Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted? I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal. #We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting. walu. On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my thoughts below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email CONSTITUTION OF KENYA PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation: My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land: PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation: Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing. There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys! RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations: COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation: RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law: If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live? Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge! EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution: ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations. GOD BLESS KENYA These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. Twahir On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: @Alex I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs. The board has also given the reasons behind the ban. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki @Lawrence Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue? Please explain? There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything? So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament. Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me. Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: > Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience. > Regards > From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM > To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke > Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki > KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold. > And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities. > Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship. > Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution: > 32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION > (1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion. > (2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship. > (3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion. > (4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion. > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: >> Does Kenya have a state religion? >> On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: >> Dear Alex, >> I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is >> immoral and ungodly. >> God only approves a relation between a man and a woman >> Leviticus 18:22 >> You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. >> Genesis 2:24 >> Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his >> wife, and they shall become one flesh. >> Regards >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alex Comninos via kictanet >> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM >> To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke >> Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki >> I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main >> storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to >> be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the >> 8th of May. >> Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU >> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote: >> > What is the film about? >> > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an >> >> LGBT film, Rafiki. >> >> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was >> reversed >> >> by the courts. >> >> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list. >> >> I am looking forward to the discussion. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Alex >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> kictanet mailing list >> >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e= >> >> Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e= >> >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >> >> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke >> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_dmuthoni-2540gmail.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=cV_kzVSAVxODhlmSGR0F5JTzQg11XsEHPKkWiNxNJkI&e= >> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform >> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy >> and >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >> -- >> ... >> Alex Comninos https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__comninos.org&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=1VGBkFQz9Mn9VQt6ZQl_kT2TxpZDx66Gg_t5ufF1Ifc&e= >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e= >> Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e= >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke >> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ldinga-2540managecom.co.ke&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=zMQ1yVUkpoJexE9hu6-hstpD13ucCEAzqiSMTCejPgU&e= >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for >> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e= >> Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e= >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke >> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ebeleokobi-2540fb.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=FxPAgWG7fD9hpH3dqPuXDy2YSOg35hkDrQdnOqAbGbk&e= >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. 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The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. > ________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ > Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke > Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ldinga%40managecom.co.... > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ > Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke > Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alex.comninos%40gmail.... > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- ... 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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ldinga%40managecom.co.... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Walu, You've got to be kidding me *"If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues" *is, and I'm going to put it bluntly here, patent nonsense. More money is spent on fight corruption than a lot of other causes. Name, from the top of your head even 5 institutions that have managed to bring LGBTI issues to the forefront for national conversation. In fact almost every time this conversation happens in Kenya it's because the government is banning something. So maybe you need to talk the Kenyans artists who feel that these stories need to be told. No one is forcing anything. You don't have to watch this movie or any other material that covers these issues. This thing of saying that we have more important issues is disingenuous, it's the same thing our president keeps doing in telling us to focus on development instead of corruption, hunger and education. We as a nation are not stupid or one dimensional, we can doing several things at once; you know like care that someone is dying of hunger, that someone else is being discriminated against and that internet access is still too expensive in this country;) On 30 April 2018 at 19:13, Walubengo J via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Spot on Twahir,
Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters.
If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues.
As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority.
Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted?
I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal.
#We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting.
walu.
On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there
on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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platform
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sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
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behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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-- Regards, Sidney *Twitter:* @princelySid <https://twitter.com/princelySid> | *Web: * sidneyochieng.co.ke *Skype: *sidney.ochieng | *Github:* princelySid <https://github.com/princelySid>
Sidney, I think it is possible for us as Kenyans to concentrate on our multi-faceted issues like corruption, pathetic state of our healthcare system, constant strikes by public sector workers which have an adverse effect on the economy etc. But to a limited extent Walu is also right, we have so many problems or so many Goliath's to slay in this country that the LGBT issue looks like a western problem. If it’s human rights violations e.g Miguna and utter disobedience by the Government of court orders, I see where Walu is going by saying honestly we have bigger issues to fry than LGBT rights. We have deeper human rights issues than LGBT problem, how many times are people arrested in this country without knowing the reason why, driven round in circles in different police stations and not allowed to contact their next of kin or a lawyer. Police human right violations still continue unabated. To me if there is a scale, LGBT issues honestly are the least of our problems right now. Regards, Lucy. Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 30, 2018, at 20:07, Sidney Ochieng via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Walu, You've got to be kidding me "If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues" is, and I'm going to put it bluntly here, patent nonsense. More money is spent on fight corruption than a lot of other causes. Name, from the top of your head even 5 institutions that have managed to bring LGBTI issues to the forefront for national conversation. In fact almost every time this conversation happens in Kenya it's because the government is banning something. So maybe you need to talk the Kenyans artists who feel that these stories need to be told.
No one is forcing anything. You don't have to watch this movie or any other material that covers these issues.
This thing of saying that we have more important issues is disingenuous, it's the same thing our president keeps doing in telling us to focus on development instead of corruption, hunger and education. We as a nation are not stupid or one dimensional, we can doing several things at once; you know like care that someone is dying of hunger, that someone else is being discriminated against and that internet access is still too expensive in this country;)
On 30 April 2018 at 19:13, Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Spot on Twahir,
Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters.
If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues.
As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority.
Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted?
I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal.
#We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting.
walu.
On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my thoughts below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok.
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.
There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?
Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone.
Twahir
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: @Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then
it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on
the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
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I believe we can be outraged by multiple things at once, which is why I find the "We have more important things to worry about" argument to be limiting and highly reductionist. Fine, the issue of gay rights may not matter to you right now where you are, but for someone somewhere it's an issue of their right to live and love as they please, and as such, it's pretty important to them. It shouldn't bother me what two consenting adults are doing, and indeed it doesn't. My faith is my faith, and no matter how much whatever these consenting adults are doing goes against it, that's their decision, not mine. For Ezekiel Mutua to use a public platform to denounce a work of art because it goes against 'dominant values' not only completely goes against freedom of expression, it assumes that after watching this film, we shall all abandon our lifestyles, heterosexual or otherwise, and become absorbed in 'gayism'. So ridiculous. Eric Mugendi about.me/mugendi [image: Eric Mugendi on about.me] <http://about.me/mugendi> On Tue, 1 May 2018 at 16:26, lucy gakaria via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Sidney,
I think it is possible for us as Kenyans to concentrate on our multi-faceted issues like corruption, pathetic state of our healthcare system, constant strikes by public sector workers which have an adverse effect on the economy etc.
But to a limited extent Walu is also right, we have so many problems or so many Goliath's to slay in this country that the LGBT issue looks like a western problem.
If it’s human rights violations e.g Miguna and utter disobedience by the Government of court orders, I see where Walu is going by saying honestly we have bigger issues to fry than LGBT rights. We have deeper human rights issues than LGBT problem, how many times are people arrested in this country without knowing the reason why, driven round in circles in different police stations and not allowed to contact their next of kin or a lawyer. Police human right violations still continue unabated. To me if there is a scale, LGBT issues honestly are the least of our problems right now.
Regards, Lucy.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 30, 2018, at 20:07, Sidney Ochieng via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Walu, You've got to be kidding me *"If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues" *is, and I'm going to put it bluntly here, patent nonsense. More money is spent on fight corruption than a lot of other causes. Name, from the top of your head even 5 institutions that have managed to bring LGBTI issues to the forefront for national conversation. In fact almost every time this conversation happens in Kenya it's because the government is banning something. So maybe you need to talk the Kenyans artists who feel that these stories need to be told.
No one is forcing anything. You don't have to watch this movie or any other material that covers these issues.
This thing of saying that we have more important issues is disingenuous, it's the same thing our president keeps doing in telling us to focus on development instead of corruption, hunger and education. We as a nation are not stupid or one dimensional, we can doing several things at once; you know like care that someone is dying of hunger, that someone else is being discriminated against and that internet access is still too expensive in this country;)
On 30 April 2018 at 19:13, Walubengo J via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Spot on Twahir,
Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters.
If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues.
As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority.
Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted?
I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal.
#We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting.
walu.
On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
fast to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there
on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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There are multiple facets to this issue in my opinion, censorship and the values being 'promoted'. I think they can be handled separately. The most common supporting argument I've heard being advanced for the banning of the film is "it is promoting the wrong values to our children". This immediately reveals the major failing by the parents. If you think something is wrong, talk frankly with your children about it. The egotistic Ezekiel Mutua cannot be given the responsibility of 'parenting' the children. Most parents just don't want to discuss anything relating to sex with their children and quietly hope that the children will not be able to see that which is banned. Now, on the matter of values, were there same sex relationships in the past? Yes, but the nature of those relationships what their proponents are claiming them to be? Absolutely not. Another common slogan is "homosexuality is not unAfrican, homophobia is". This is usually a patronizing comment that claims that we were all fine & dandy with homosexuality before the colonialists & their religion frowned upon the practice and banned it through their laws. There are a lot of practices that the colonialists frowned upon, and none of them was ever clamped down successfully, polygamy for instance. There is no practice that attracted as much vitriol from the colonialists than polygamy. Polygamists are still treated like scum in the West, but the practice is still fairly common. There are vast areas in the continent that weren't reached by the colonialists and therefore their 'gay bashing' message never got through, most of them frown on homosexuality. Finally, on the bit that "what two consenting adults do is none of anybody's business", the statement is not entirely true. Incest is banned in the vast majority of the states & countries in the West, in that case it doesn't matter whether you are consenting or not. Polygamy is a criminal offense, whether the parties are consenting or not. One can defend their position without using wishy washy arguments. Ed On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Eric Mugendi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I believe we can be outraged by multiple things at once, which is why I find the "We have more important things to worry about" argument to be limiting and highly reductionist. Fine, the issue of gay rights may not matter to you right now where you are, but for someone somewhere it's an issue of their right to live and love as they please, and as such, it's pretty important to them. It shouldn't bother me what two consenting adults are doing, and indeed it doesn't. My faith is my faith, and no matter how much whatever these consenting adults are doing goes against it, that's their decision, not mine. For Ezekiel Mutua to use a public platform to denounce a work of art because it goes against 'dominant values' not only completely goes against freedom of expression, it assumes that after watching this film, we shall all abandon our lifestyles, heterosexual or otherwise, and become absorbed in 'gayism'. So ridiculous.
Eric Mugendi about.me/mugendi [image: Eric Mugendi on about.me] <http://about.me/mugendi>
On Tue, 1 May 2018 at 16:26, lucy gakaria via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Sidney,
I think it is possible for us as Kenyans to concentrate on our multi-faceted issues like corruption, pathetic state of our healthcare system, constant strikes by public sector workers which have an adverse effect on the economy etc.
But to a limited extent Walu is also right, we have so many problems or so many Goliath's to slay in this country that the LGBT issue looks like a western problem.
If it’s human rights violations e.g Miguna and utter disobedience by the Government of court orders, I see where Walu is going by saying honestly we have bigger issues to fry than LGBT rights. We have deeper human rights issues than LGBT problem, how many times are people arrested in this country without knowing the reason why, driven round in circles in different police stations and not allowed to contact their next of kin or a lawyer. Police human right violations still continue unabated. To me if there is a scale, LGBT issues honestly are the least of our problems right now.
Regards, Lucy.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 30, 2018, at 20:07, Sidney Ochieng via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Walu, You've got to be kidding me *"If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues" *is, and I'm going to put it bluntly here, patent nonsense. More money is spent on fight corruption than a lot of other causes. Name, from the top of your head even 5 institutions that have managed to bring LGBTI issues to the forefront for national conversation. In fact almost every time this conversation happens in Kenya it's because the government is banning something. So maybe you need to talk the Kenyans artists who feel that these stories need to be told.
No one is forcing anything. You don't have to watch this movie or any other material that covers these issues.
This thing of saying that we have more important issues is disingenuous, it's the same thing our president keeps doing in telling us to focus on development instead of corruption, hunger and education. We as a nation are not stupid or one dimensional, we can doing several things at once; you know like care that someone is dying of hunger, that someone else is being discriminated against and that internet access is still too expensive in this country;)
On 30 April 2018 at 19:13, Walubengo J via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Spot on Twahir,
Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters.
If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues.
As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority.
Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted?
I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal.
#We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting.
walu.
On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
fast to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the
main
storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere
there on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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well said eric On May 1, 2018 7:26 PM, "Eric Mugendi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I believe we can be outraged by multiple things at once, which is why I find the "We have more important things to worry about" argument to be limiting and highly reductionist. Fine, the issue of gay rights may not matter to you right now where you are, but for someone somewhere it's an issue of their right to live and love as they please, and as such, it's pretty important to them. It shouldn't bother me what two consenting adults are doing, and indeed it doesn't. My faith is my faith, and no matter how much whatever these consenting adults are doing goes against it, that's their decision, not mine. For Ezekiel Mutua to use a public platform to denounce a work of art because it goes against 'dominant values' not only completely goes against freedom of expression, it assumes that after watching this film, we shall all abandon our lifestyles, heterosexual or otherwise, and become absorbed in 'gayism'. So ridiculous.
Eric Mugendi about.me/mugendi [image: Eric Mugendi on about.me] <http://about.me/mugendi>
On Tue, 1 May 2018 at 16:26, lucy gakaria via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Sidney,
I think it is possible for us as Kenyans to concentrate on our multi-faceted issues like corruption, pathetic state of our healthcare system, constant strikes by public sector workers which have an adverse effect on the economy etc.
But to a limited extent Walu is also right, we have so many problems or so many Goliath's to slay in this country that the LGBT issue looks like a western problem.
If it’s human rights violations e.g Miguna and utter disobedience by the Government of court orders, I see where Walu is going by saying honestly we have bigger issues to fry than LGBT rights. We have deeper human rights issues than LGBT problem, how many times are people arrested in this country without knowing the reason why, driven round in circles in different police stations and not allowed to contact their next of kin or a lawyer. Police human right violations still continue unabated. To me if there is a scale, LGBT issues honestly are the least of our problems right now.
Regards, Lucy.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 30, 2018, at 20:07, Sidney Ochieng via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Walu, You've got to be kidding me *"If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues" *is, and I'm going to put it bluntly here, patent nonsense. More money is spent on fight corruption than a lot of other causes. Name, from the top of your head even 5 institutions that have managed to bring LGBTI issues to the forefront for national conversation. In fact almost every time this conversation happens in Kenya it's because the government is banning something. So maybe you need to talk the Kenyans artists who feel that these stories need to be told.
No one is forcing anything. You don't have to watch this movie or any other material that covers these issues.
This thing of saying that we have more important issues is disingenuous, it's the same thing our president keeps doing in telling us to focus on development instead of corruption, hunger and education. We as a nation are not stupid or one dimensional, we can doing several things at once; you know like care that someone is dying of hunger, that someone else is being discriminated against and that internet access is still too expensive in this country;)
On 30 April 2018 at 19:13, Walubengo J via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Spot on Twahir,
Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters.
If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues.
As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority.
Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted?
I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal.
#We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting.
walu.
On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
fast to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the
main
storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere
there on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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At the risk of the lawyers on Board making more 'updated' views, our penal code (attached - Section 165) clearly states LGBT issues as ILLEGAL in Kenya and punishable with a 5 year sentence! Clearly, a film about a Lesbian couple in Nairobi is a ridiculously imposed notion and Kenyans won't be taken for a ride with 'do you have a state religion' - it's not about a religion, it's about Kenyan values that do not include that notion. Blatantly yes! I am an academic and will not be intimidated to take on values that are not ours. Period. Very strongly on that!!!!! Kudos to KFCB for banning Rafiki! Penal Code Section 165. 165. Indecent practices between males Any male person who, whether in public or private, commits any act of gross indecency with another male person, or procures another male person to commit any act of gross indecency with him, or attempts to procure the commission of any such act by any male person with himself or with another male person, whether in public or private, is guilty of a felony and is liable to imprisonment for five years On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 11:33 PM, albert migowa via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
well said eric On May 1, 2018 7:26 PM, "Eric Mugendi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I believe we can be outraged by multiple things at once, which is why I find the "We have more important things to worry about" argument to be limiting and highly reductionist. Fine, the issue of gay rights may not matter to you right now where you are, but for someone somewhere it's an issue of their right to live and love as they please, and as such, it's pretty important to them. It shouldn't bother me what two consenting adults are doing, and indeed it doesn't. My faith is my faith, and no matter how much whatever these consenting adults are doing goes against it, that's their decision, not mine. For Ezekiel Mutua to use a public platform to denounce a work of art because it goes against 'dominant values' not only completely goes against freedom of expression, it assumes that after watching this film, we shall all abandon our lifestyles, heterosexual or otherwise, and become absorbed in 'gayism'. So ridiculous.
Eric Mugendi about.me/mugendi [image: Eric Mugendi on about.me] <http://about.me/mugendi>
On Tue, 1 May 2018 at 16:26, lucy gakaria via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Sidney,
I think it is possible for us as Kenyans to concentrate on our multi-faceted issues like corruption, pathetic state of our healthcare system, constant strikes by public sector workers which have an adverse effect on the economy etc.
But to a limited extent Walu is also right, we have so many problems or so many Goliath's to slay in this country that the LGBT issue looks like a western problem.
If it’s human rights violations e.g Miguna and utter disobedience by the Government of court orders, I see where Walu is going by saying honestly we have bigger issues to fry than LGBT rights. We have deeper human rights issues than LGBT problem, how many times are people arrested in this country without knowing the reason why, driven round in circles in different police stations and not allowed to contact their next of kin or a lawyer. Police human right violations still continue unabated. To me if there is a scale, LGBT issues honestly are the least of our problems right now.
Regards, Lucy.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 30, 2018, at 20:07, Sidney Ochieng via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Walu, You've got to be kidding me *"If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues" *is, and I'm going to put it bluntly here, patent nonsense. More money is spent on fight corruption than a lot of other causes. Name, from the top of your head even 5 institutions that have managed to bring LGBTI issues to the forefront for national conversation. In fact almost every time this conversation happens in Kenya it's because the government is banning something. So maybe you need to talk the Kenyans artists who feel that these stories need to be told.
No one is forcing anything. You don't have to watch this movie or any other material that covers these issues.
This thing of saying that we have more important issues is disingenuous, it's the same thing our president keeps doing in telling us to focus on development instead of corruption, hunger and education. We as a nation are not stupid or one dimensional, we can doing several things at once; you know like care that someone is dying of hunger, that someone else is being discriminated against and that internet access is still too expensive in this country;)
On 30 April 2018 at 19:13, Walubengo J via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Spot on Twahir,
Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters.
If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues.
As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority.
Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted?
I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal.
#We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting.
walu.
On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
fast to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the
main
storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first
Kenyan film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere
there on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <
dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but
it was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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I think many have pointed to the fact that the film isn't illegal in any way. The content of the film is in contention however because of some people's religious beliefs or otherwise. It is possible to avoid the film or conversations about LGTBTIQ people without blocking everyone's else's rights to have the same conversations and even watch the film.. Feel free to pretend that this is not a present reality and leave the rest, who have no problem with human beings exercising their sexuality, to be. On Tue, May 1, 2018, 16:26 lucy gakaria via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Sidney,
I think it is possible for us as Kenyans to concentrate on our multi-faceted issues like corruption, pathetic state of our healthcare system, constant strikes by public sector workers which have an adverse effect on the economy etc.
But to a limited extent Walu is also right, we have so many problems or so many Goliath's to slay in this country that the LGBT issue looks like a western problem.
If it’s human rights violations e.g Miguna and utter disobedience by the Government of court orders, I see where Walu is going by saying honestly we have bigger issues to fry than LGBT rights. We have deeper human rights issues than LGBT problem, how many times are people arrested in this country without knowing the reason why, driven round in circles in different police stations and not allowed to contact their next of kin or a lawyer. Police human right violations still continue unabated. To me if there is a scale, LGBT issues honestly are the least of our problems right now.
Regards, Lucy.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 30, 2018, at 20:07, Sidney Ochieng via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Walu, You've got to be kidding me *"If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues" *is, and I'm going to put it bluntly here, patent nonsense. More money is spent on fight corruption than a lot of other causes. Name, from the top of your head even 5 institutions that have managed to bring LGBTI issues to the forefront for national conversation. In fact almost every time this conversation happens in Kenya it's because the government is banning something. So maybe you need to talk the Kenyans artists who feel that these stories need to be told.
No one is forcing anything. You don't have to watch this movie or any other material that covers these issues.
This thing of saying that we have more important issues is disingenuous, it's the same thing our president keeps doing in telling us to focus on development instead of corruption, hunger and education. We as a nation are not stupid or one dimensional, we can doing several things at once; you know like care that someone is dying of hunger, that someone else is being discriminated against and that internet access is still too expensive in this country;)
On 30 April 2018 at 19:13, Walubengo J via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Spot on Twahir,
Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters.
If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues.
As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority.
Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted?
I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal.
#We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting.
walu.
On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
*My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
*Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
*There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
* If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
*Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
*These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
*Twahir*
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral depending on one's beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something, contact me.
Kindly, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
then it is
immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
fast to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there
on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
was
reversed >> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards, >> Alex
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org
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-- Regards, Sidney
*Twitter:* @princelySid <https://twitter.com/princelySid> | *Web: * sidneyochieng.co.ke *Skype: *sidney.ochieng | *Github:* princelySid <https://github.com/princelySid>
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I would argue that morality is relative – and when morality starts to come down to religious belief – I am far from convinced that any state should have the right to dictate the religious and moral choices of others, provided they do no demonstrable harm to a third party. Once you introduce censorship because of moral belief, particularly moral belief that is founded in religious idealism, you open the door to a slippery slope where anything can be countenanced in the name of religion. In the same way the crusades were justified and resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands, in the same way people died in the salem witch trials, they all stem from the same place, the imposition of one’s belief systems on another. If however we must resort to biblical quotation – when it was written in Luke 20:25 “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s” this is often interpreted as a financial reference – however, this is expanded on in Romans 13:7 where it says “Pay everyone what you owe him: taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due” – and I would argue strongly that the judgement of morality in the religious context is strictly in God’s hands – not the hands of the state (again with the limitation that the lack of morality does not have a detrimental affect on others) Then again – I prefer the words of one François Rabelais<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Rabelais> who wrote in 1534, “Do as thou wilt, because men that are free, of gentle birth, well bred and at home in civilized company possess a natural instinct that includes them to virtue and saves them from vice. This instinct they name as their honor”, or, a more extreme and controversial one, “In that ye harm none – do what ye will – but beware – for what ye do comes back thrice unto thee” However, in all of this – these are personal beliefs and each person is subject to their own beliefs – and in the case of the Kenyan constitution, which clearly defines Kenya as a secular state – personal choices they must remain – because the day that constitution came into force, the issue was no longer Caesar’s to adjudicate on. Just my personal beliefs. Andrew From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet Sent: 30 April 2018 15:04 To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> Cc: Lawrence Dinga, CISSP <ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience. Regards From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva<mailto:Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold. And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities. Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship. Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution: 32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION (1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion. (2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship. (3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion. (4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion. On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Does Kenya have a state religion? On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Dear Alex, I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke<mailto:ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May. Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com<mailto:dmuthoni@gmail.com>> wrote: > What is the film about? > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: >> Hi >> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an >> LGBT film, Rafiki. >> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts. >> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list. >> I am looking forward to the discussion. >> Kind regards, >> Alex >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e=> >> Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e=> >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/<https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/> >> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke<http://www.eacdirectory.co.ke> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_dmuthoni-2540gmail.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=cV_kzVSAVxODhlmSGR0F5JTzQg11XsEHPKkWiNxNJkI&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_dmuthoni-2540gmail.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=cV_kzVSAVxODhlmSGR0F5JTzQg11XsEHPKkWiNxNJkI&e=> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- ... 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Well said Andrew, well said. There’s a blurry line once the state quotes morality with no firm legal basis underpinning it – slippery slope so to speak. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Andrew Alston via kictanet Sent: 30 April 2018 15:44 To: cliffordosedo@gmail.com Cc: Andrew Alston Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki I would argue that morality is relative – and when morality starts to come down to religious belief – I am far from convinced that any state should have the right to dictate the religious and moral choices of others, provided they do no demonstrable harm to a third party. Once you introduce censorship because of moral belief, particularly moral belief that is founded in religious idealism, you open the door to a slippery slope where anything can be countenanced in the name of religion. In the same way the crusades were justified and resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands, in the same way people died in the salem witch trials, they all stem from the same place, the imposition of one’s belief systems on another. If however we must resort to biblical quotation – when it was written in Luke 20:25 “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s” this is often interpreted as a financial reference – however, this is expanded on in Romans 13:7 where it says “Pay everyone what you owe him: taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due” – and I would argue strongly that the judgement of morality in the religious context is strictly in God’s hands – not the hands of the state (again with the limitation that the lack of morality does not have a detrimental affect on others) Then again – I prefer the words of one François Rabelais who wrote in 1534, “Do as thou wilt, because men that are free, of gentle birth, well bred and at home in civilized company possess a natural instinct that includes them to virtue and saves them from vice. This instinct they name as their honor”, or, a more extreme and controversial one, “In that ye harm none – do what ye will – but beware – for what ye do comes back thrice unto thee” However, in all of this – these are personal beliefs and each person is subject to their own beliefs – and in the case of the Kenyan constitution, which clearly defines Kenya as a secular state – personal choices they must remain – because the day that constitution came into force, the issue was no longer Caesar’s to adjudicate on. Just my personal beliefs. Andrew From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet Sent: 30 April 2018 15:04 To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> Cc: Lawrence Dinga, CISSP <ldinga@managecom.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience. Regards From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold. And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities. Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship. Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution: 32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION (1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion. (2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship. (3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion. (4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion. On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Does Kenya have a state religion? On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Dear Alex, I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May. Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote: > What is the film about? > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: >> Hi >> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an >> LGBT film, Rafiki. >> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed >> by the courts. >> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list. >> I am looking forward to the discussion. >> Kind regards, >> Alex >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e= >> Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e= >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke >> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_dmuthoni-2540gmail.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=cV_kzVSAVxODhlmSGR0F5JTzQg11XsEHPKkWiNxNJkI&e= >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- ... Alex Comninos https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__comninos.org&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=1VGBkFQz9Mn9VQt6ZQl_kT2TxpZDx66Gg_t5ufF1Ifc&e= _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e= Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e= Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ldinga-2540managecom.co.ke&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=zMQ1yVUkpoJexE9hu6-hstpD13ucCEAzqiSMTCejPgU&e= The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. 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The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafr... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ldinga@managecom.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Dear Lawrence, Perhaps I can introduce you to some of my LGBT friends? You will find them nice people I am sure, all moral, and many are good christians. Freedom of religion, expression, and thought are protected by the Kenyan constitution. This does not allow people to impose their religious beliefs on others. Kenya is not a religious theocracy. I thought that according to Jesus, Christians dont follow the old testament to the word. Perhaps there are more updated interpretations of the Bible, moral philosophy, or human rights instruments that could follow. I would not not the first testament word for word. That is asking for trouble. "He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord."(Deuteronomy 23:1) Deuteronomy 25:11-1: If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity. "Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18) "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again." Exodus 21: 7-8 Kind regards, Alex On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 13:32, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP <ldinga@managecom.co.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the film about?
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi
I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an LGBT film, Rafiki.
Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed by the courts.
Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
I am looking forward to the discussion.
Kind regards, Alex
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org
Dear Lawrence, lf we were to go with your religious/ Biblical angle, then everything in Kenya is immoral and wrong in the eyes of God, (i) starting with corruption,(see the ten commandments-thou shall not steal, you shall not covet your neighbour's property , the story of Zaccheus, e.t.c), (ii) Adultery which is an everyday thing everywhere(thou shall not covet your neighbour's wife) (iii) discrimination and abuse of women- doesn't the Bible say that God is no respecter of persons? doesn't the Bible give instructions on how to treat others (iv) ethnicity- love your neighbour as love your yourself? and I could go on and on For you religious guys, it is very hypocritical to throw the moral card only when you feel like, if we are to throw the moral card, let us apply it to everything and I mean everything! Regards Tracy Kadesa, LL.B ,University of Nairobi. Dip KSL tracykadesa.wordpress.com legalwalk.wordpress.com On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=7M_-ucSaFpU
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the film about?
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet <
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi
I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an
LGBT film, Rafiki.
Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was
reversed
by the courts.
Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
I am looking forward to the discussion.
Kind regards,
Alex
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmutho ni%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/options/kictanet/kadesatracy%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Tracy, First things first, Cambridge Dictionary defines hypocrisy as:- *a situation in which someone pretends to believe something that they do not really believe, or that is the opposite of what they do or say at another time.* Link: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hypocrisy All that you listed are vices we all condemn. When we single out a vice and actually have the audacity to call it a virtue? That is what *hypocrisy* is! Advocating for LGBT rights to assemble with placards to be given rights to enforce their unnatural preferences... NEXT would we advocate for ROBBERS having a right to break into my house as a means to earn a living! What the *gay guys *do behind their doors is not my concern nor should it be anyone elses. What I mind is it being forced onto our kids! As Walu rightly put, we have MORE PERTINENT ISSUES to resolve. So my dear sister, there is nothing hypocritical in my beliefs. I call a wrong for what it is -* A WRONG*! Twahir On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 17:47 Tracy Kadesa via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Lawrence,
lf we were to go with your religious/ Biblical angle, then everything in Kenya is immoral and wrong in the eyes of God,
(i) starting with corruption,(see the ten commandments-thou shall not steal, you shall not covet your neighbour's property , the story of Zaccheus, e.t.c),
(ii) Adultery which is an everyday thing everywhere(thou shall not covet your neighbour's wife)
(iii) discrimination and abuse of women- doesn't the Bible say that God is no respecter of persons? doesn't the Bible give instructions on how to treat others
(iv) ethnicity- love your neighbour as love your yourself?
and I could go on and on
For you religious guys, it is very hypocritical to throw the moral card only when you feel like, if we are to throw the moral card, let us apply it to everything and I mean everything!
Regards
Tracy Kadesa, LL.B ,University of Nairobi. Dip KSL tracykadesa.wordpress.com legalwalk.wordpress.com
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the film about?
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet <
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi
I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an
LGBT film, Rafiki.
Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was
reversed
by the courts.
Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
I am looking forward to the discussion.
Kind regards,
Alex
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmuthoni%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
This topic is not adding any value to the ICT fraternity. From: Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 8:36 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Twahir Hussein Kassim Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki Tracy, First things first, Cambridge Dictionary defines hypocrisy as:- a situation in which someone pretends to believe something that they do not really believe, or that is the opposite of what they do or say at another time. Link: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hypocrisy All that you listed are vices we all condemn. When we single out a vice and actually have the audacity to call it a virtue? That is what hypocrisy is! Advocating for LGBT rights to assemble with placards to be given rights to enforce their unnatural preferences... NEXT would we advocate for ROBBERS having a right to break into my house as a means to earn a living! What the gay guys do behind their doors is not my concern nor should it be anyone elses. What I mind is it being forced onto our kids! As Walu rightly put, we have MORE PERTINENT ISSUES to resolve. So my dear sister, there is nothing hypocritical in my beliefs. I call a wrong for what it is - A WRONG! Twahir On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 17:47 Tracy Kadesa via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Dear Lawrence, lf we were to go with your religious/ Biblical angle, then everything in Kenya is immoral and wrong in the eyes of God, (i) starting with corruption,(see the ten commandments-thou shall not steal, you shall not covet your neighbour's property , the story of Zaccheus, e.t.c), (ii) Adultery which is an everyday thing everywhere(thou shall not covet your neighbour's wife) (iii) discrimination and abuse of women- doesn't the Bible say that God is no respecter of persons? doesn't the Bible give instructions on how to treat others (iv) ethnicity- love your neighbour as love your yourself? and I could go on and on For you religious guys, it is very hypocritical to throw the moral card only when you feel like, if we are to throw the moral card, let us apply it to everything and I mean everything! Regards Tracy Kadesa, LL.B ,University of Nairobi. Dip KSL tracykadesa.wordpress.com legalwalk.wordpress.com On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Dear Alex, I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is immoral and ungodly. God only approves a relation between a man and a woman Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Alex Comninos via kictanet Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the 8th of May. Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote: What is the film about? On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Hi I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an LGBT film, Rafiki. Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed by the courts. Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list. I am looking forward to the discussion. Kind regards, Alex _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmuthoni%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- ... Alex Comninos http://comninos.org _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ldinga%40managecom.co.... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kadesatracy%40gmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/twahir%40hussein.me.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ldinga%40managecom.co.... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Greetings, It was also proclaimed that "It is illegal to watch films that have not been sanctioned by the Kenya Film Classification Board." I am now concerned that I will be committing a crime when I watch content posted on social media. Regards, Mildred Achoch. On Monday, April 30, 2018, Alex Comninos via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi
I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an LGBT film, Rafiki.
Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was reversed by the courts.
Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
I am looking forward to the discussion.
Kind regards, Alex
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com
participants (31)
-
albert migowa -
Alex Comninos -
Ali Hussein -
Andrew Alston -
Athar Ahmad Bhatti -
Barrack Otieno -
Clifford Derrick -
Collins Areba -
Dorcas Muthoni -
Ebele Okobi -
Edwin Onyango Owino -
Eric Mugendi -
Erick Mwangi -
Grace Bomu -
James Wanjau -
kanini mutemi -
Lawrence Dinga, CISSP -
lucy gakaria -
Lucy Gichaga -
Mildred Achoch -
Mose Karanja -
Mwendwa Kivuva -
Odhiambo Washington -
S.M. Muraya -
Shitemi Khamadi -
Sidney Ochieng -
Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau -
Tracy Kadesa -
Twahir Hussein Kassim -
Walubengo J -
Wamathai (HapaKenya)