Well said Andrew, well said.
There’s a blurry line once the state quotes morality with no firm legal basis underpinning it – slippery slope so to speak.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Andrew Alston via kictanet
Sent: 30 April 2018 15:44
To: cliffordosedo@gmail.com
Cc: Andrew Alston
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I would argue that morality is relative – and when morality starts to come down to religious belief – I am far from convinced that any state should have the right to dictate the religious and moral choices of others, provided they do no demonstrable harm to a third party.
Once you introduce censorship because of moral belief, particularly moral belief that is founded in religious idealism, you open the door to a slippery slope where anything can be countenanced in the name of religion. In the same way the crusades were justified and resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands, in the same way people died in the salem witch trials, they all stem from the same place, the imposition of one’s belief systems on another.
If however we must resort to biblical quotation – when it was written in Luke 20:25 “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s” this is often interpreted as a financial reference – however, this is expanded on in Romans 13:7 where it says “Pay everyone what you owe him: taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due” – and I would argue strongly that the judgement of morality in the religious context is strictly in God’s hands – not the hands of the state (again with the limitation that the lack of morality does not have a detrimental affect on others)
Then again – I prefer the words of one François Rabelais who wrote in 1534, “Do as thou wilt, because men that are free, of gentle birth, well bred and at home in civilized company possess a natural instinct that includes them to virtue and saves them from vice. This instinct they name as their honor”, or, a more extreme and controversial one, “In that ye harm none – do what ye will – but beware – for what ye do comes back thrice unto thee”
However, in all of this – these are personal beliefs and each person is subject to their own beliefs – and in the case of the Kenyan constitution, which clearly defines Kenya as a secular state – personal choices they must remain – because the day that constitution came into force, the issue was no longer Caesar’s to adjudicate on.
Just my personal beliefs.
Andrew
From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet
Sent: 30 April 2018 15:04
To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>
Cc: Lawrence Dinga, CISSP <ldinga@managecom.co.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree, morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
Regards
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM
Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal threshold.
And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who believe in different deities.
Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution recognises freedom of worship.
Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
(1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
(2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of worship.
(3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or religion.
(4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is contrary to the person's belief or religion.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Does Kenya have a state religion?
On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Dear Alex,
I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then it is
immoral and ungodly.
God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
Leviticus 18:22
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Genesis 2:24
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his
wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Regards
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Comninos via kictanet
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM
To: ldinga@managecom.co.ke
Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main
storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan film to
be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on the
8th of May.
Here is the trailer for the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
> What is the film about?
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet <
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi
>> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has banned an
>> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was
reversed
>> by the courts.
>> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> Kind regards,
>> Alex
>> _______________________________________________
>> kictanet mailing list
>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e=
>> Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e=
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_dmuthoni-2540gmail.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=cV_kzVSAVxODhlmSGR0F5JTzQg11XsEHPKkWiNxNJkI&e=
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
...
Alex Comninos
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__comninos.org&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=1VGBkFQz9Mn9VQt6ZQl_kT2TxpZDx66Gg_t5ufF1Ifc&e=
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e=
Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e=
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ldinga-2540managecom.co.ke&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=zMQ1yVUkpoJexE9hu6-hstpD13ucCEAzqiSMTCejPgU&e=
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=vV1aDNnbi-5wukc1ziVGzEuktv0-7dB4wtUWTP9jiXA&e=
Twitter: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_kictanet&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=mjlQVYA9NUEjBqqyObJMqVGD-taw8A4VXcNJia6skXQ&e=
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ebeleokobi-2540fb.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=heal2BnohwLn745zExohEb1E7CKooVYKysBt7WfLqP8&s=FxPAgWG7fD9hpH3dqPuXDy2YSOg35hkDrQdnOqAbGbk&e=
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafrica.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ldinga@managecom.co.ke
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.