How secure is mpesa
Hi, I am writing this post with a heavy heart as it will likely reverse gains that have been made in the ecommerce and ebanking/mbanking environment. A client of mine, who shall remain unnamed for now in typical Kenya fashion, runs a site that accepts payments using the mpesa paybill system. Due to the close similarity in various paybill number there has been a tendency for people to send money to the account erroneously. As the errors have grown over time the client has had to come up with a way to manage the reversals so us to reduce the impact on their operations. Last week Safaricom accessed the paybill number's account and initiated reversals without notifying them. How sure is Safaricom that the person who indicated that they had sent the money to the wrong number had not already consumed services? As the post master general in waiting I am concerned that such action would have negative effect on ecommerce as reversal of a transaction based on the request of one party will definitely harm the other. The reversed transaction still incurs the owner of the paybill number a cost that is not reversed, this issue was previously raised with the former MD of Safaricom Mr. Michael Joseph who instructed one of the managers to look into and resolve. It has been over 2 years and the issue is yet to be concluded. This action also indicates the issue of Safaricom mistreating SME organisations, if the error was made with the KPLC or Co-Op Bank accounts would the staff have the audacity to make direct reversals on the system? I believe the term for such action is blatant impunity that can only be practised by a monopolistic player in an industry. With a heavy heart I send this post hoping that it will act as a wake up call both to Safaricom and the regulators (CCK & Central Bank) that we need better control and monitoring of the money transfer market otherwise we stand to scare the public which would result in its slow down. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From:Eugene Lidede (Synergy) [mailto: eugene@synergy.co.ke ] Sent: 04 July 2011 09:05 To: robertyawe@synergy.co.ke Subject: M-PESA irregularities Robert, As we spoke; i) Safaricom is now directly manipulating transactions in our M-PESA account without our consent or any manner of reference to us. Is this proper? (see red circle in picture below) ii) They never refund monies deducted from us resulting from the said reversals despite the fact that we are not party to initiating the “wrong payments” (see blue circle). These are wrong payments intended for co-op bank’s 400200 but instead sent to our 400100. iii) This issue has been outstanding since October last year during Michael Josephs days. Safaricom has refused to sort it out. Several emails to their M-PESA department regarding this issue have gone unanswered even those specifically addressed to the referenced Caroline lady. iv) With the deteriorating relationship, it might be time we considered PesaPal, ZAP and Orange money seriously as a payment platform for our retail subscribers Regards Eugene Lidede | Chief Technology Officer | Synergy Systems Limited 6th Floor, Phoenix House, Kenyatta Ave. | Cell: +254 721 289497/476367 | Tel: +254 20 2113163 live.mystocks.co.ke | www.propertykenya.com | www.mystocks.co.ke Outstanding Online Investment Content Provider 2009– Computer Society of Kenya
It has long my belief that only person to person transactions can be reversed as this are based on trust, and on that one person is sending the money, not paying for services. Businesses are meant to use the paybill which means it should be harder to reverse a transaction without both parties consenting to this. Safaricom should also come up with better ways of reducing errors in transaction. User interfaces are usually adapted to best suit a user. In this era of feature phones and smart phones, Safaricom should have apps with better functionality to supplement the USSD based system. An app can have a list of paybill numbers, fetch your address book etc
Bobby, as the PMG in waiting I invite you to participate on the ongoing discussion on Mobile payment platforms under the KIGF thread, we will have a chance to discuss this issues during the face to face meeting slated for mid this month, I hope there will be a speedy resolution to the problem, at the same time I wonder whether there is need to have a policy that will specifically handle the mobile payment platforms, anyone with an idea if there is something out there may also share on the ongoing policy discussion. On 7/4/11, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
It has long my belief that only person to person transactions can be reversed as this are based on trust, and on that one person is sending the money, not paying for services.
Businesses are meant to use the paybill which means it should be harder to reverse a transaction without both parties consenting to this.
Safaricom should also come up with better ways of reducing errors in transaction. User interfaces are usually adapted to best suit a user. In this era of feature phones and smart phones, Safaricom should have apps with better functionality to supplement the USSD based system. An app can have a list of paybill numbers, fetch your address book etc
-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
We are about to finalize the revised drat ICT policy before we table it for the public to make comments. As such I will ask the policy team to follow your thread. My experience with discussions is that we get too many opinions and no serious research with references. Is there a way to change this and build a Knowledge Society? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 10:35:18 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa Bobby, as the PMG in waiting I invite you to participate on the ongoing discussion on Mobile payment platforms under the KIGF thread, we will have a chance to discuss this issues during the face to face meeting slated for mid this month, I hope there will be a speedy resolution to the problem, at the same time I wonder whether there is need to have a policy that will specifically handle the mobile payment platforms, anyone with an idea if there is something out there may also share on the ongoing policy discussion. On 7/4/11, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
It has long my belief that only person to person transactions can be reversed as this are based on trust, and on that one person is sending the money, not paying for services.
Businesses are meant to use the paybill which means it should be harder to reverse a transaction without both parties consenting to this.
Safaricom should also come up with better ways of reducing errors in transaction. User interfaces are usually adapted to best suit a user. In this era of feature phones and smart phones, Safaricom should have apps with better functionality to supplement the USSD based system. An app can have a list of paybill numbers, fetch your address book etc
-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
Mpesa has changed our image. We are all working to shape it and become a truely Kenyan innovation. It is a new product that in a few years will be even better. Like a new pride in a home, the family does not go public to tell all and sundry that she chews food with her mouth open. The African way is to use a third party to pass the message politely. I offer to be the intermediary if Robert has exhausted all channels. We have only heard his side of the story. To save the Pride and our pride, let us try my proposal. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 09:47:40 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hi Daktari, We are more than willing to have you mediate on this issue so that we can wash our dirty linen offline. Please provide your preferred mode of engagement. Regards PS: I thank all those who contributed to this discussion Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Mon, 4 July, 2011 15:10:37 Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa Mpesa has changed our image. We are all working to shape it and become a truely Kenyan innovation. It is a new product that in a few years will be even better. Like a new pride in a home, the family does not go public to tell all and sundry that she chews food with her mouth open. The African way is to use a third party to pass the message politely. I offer to be the intermediary if Robert has exhausted all channels. We have only heard his side of the story. To save the Pride and our pride, let us try my proposal. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 09:47:40 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.u... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Robert/Wachira, I am in South Africa till Wednesday. If robert is still not satisfied could we have a 6am meeting on Thursday? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:09:28 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa Hi Daktari, We are more than willing to have you mediate on this issue so that we can wash our dirty linen offline. Please provide your preferred mode of engagement. Regards PS: I thank all those who contributed to this discussion Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Mon, 4 July, 2011 15:10:37 Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa Mpesa has changed our image. We are all working to shape it and become a truely Kenyan innovation. It is a new product that in a few years will be even better. Like a new pride in a home, the family does not go public to tell all and sundry that she chews food with her mouth open. The African way is to use a third party to pass the message politely. I offer to be the intermediary if Robert has exhausted all channels. We have only heard his side of the story. To save the Pride and our pride, let us try my proposal. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 09:47:40 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.u... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
Agreed. 6am Thursday at Serena. Breakfast is on me. __________________________________________________ Wachira Kang’aru Manager, Public Relations| Safaricom | Telephone: +254 722 003973 | Mobile: +254 722 574424 On 4 July 2011 16:34, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Robert/Wachira, I am in South Africa till Wednesday. If robert is still not satisfied could we have a 6am meeting on Thursday?
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry® ------------------------------ *From: * robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *Date: *Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:09:28 +0100 (BST) *To: *<bitange@jambo.co.ke> *Cc: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa
Hi Daktari,
We are more than willing to have you mediate on this issue so that we can wash our dirty linen offline.
Please provide your preferred mode of engagement.
Regards
PS: I thank all those who contributed to this discussion
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
------------------------------ *From:* "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Mon, 4 July, 2011 15:10:37 *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa
Mpesa has changed our image. We are all working to shape it and become a truely Kenyan innovation. It is a new product that in a few years will be even better. Like a new pride in a home, the family does not go public to tell all and sundry that she chews food with her mouth open.
The African way is to use a third party to pass the message politely. I offer to be the intermediary if Robert has exhausted all channels. We have only heard his side of the story. To save the Pride and our pride, let us try my proposal.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 09:47:40 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by *Jambo MailScanner* <http://www.mail.jambo.co.ke/>, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument. - William G. McAdoo
Let us hear from Robert. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: "Wachira Kang'aru" <wkangaru@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 17:47:13 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa Agreed. 6am Thursday at Serena. Breakfast is on me. __________________________________________________ Wachira Kang’aru Manager, Public Relations| Safaricom | Telephone: +254 722 003973 | Mobile: +254 722 574424 On 4 July 2011 16:34, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Robert/Wachira, I am in South Africa till Wednesday. If robert is still not satisfied could we have a 6am meeting on Thursday?
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry® ------------------------------ *From: * robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *Date: *Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:09:28 +0100 (BST) *To: *<bitange@jambo.co.ke> *Cc: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa
Hi Daktari,
We are more than willing to have you mediate on this issue so that we can wash our dirty linen offline.
Please provide your preferred mode of engagement.
Regards
PS: I thank all those who contributed to this discussion
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
------------------------------ *From:* "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Mon, 4 July, 2011 15:10:37 *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa
Mpesa has changed our image. We are all working to shape it and become a truely Kenyan innovation. It is a new product that in a few years will be even better. Like a new pride in a home, the family does not go public to tell all and sundry that she chews food with her mouth open.
The African way is to use a third party to pass the message politely. I offer to be the intermediary if Robert has exhausted all channels. We have only heard his side of the story. To save the Pride and our pride, let us try my proposal.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 09:47:40 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by *Jambo MailScanner* <http://www.mail.jambo.co.ke/>, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument. - William G. McAdoo ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
Hi, The time is too early, unlike daktari I still have school going children, lets make it 7:30am my proposal is that we meet in the PS's office where there are no sharp objects like knives and forks. We would also like to know who are coming from Safaricom so that we can decide who to bring along such as lawyers and askaris. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Mon, 4 July, 2011 18:11:24 Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa Let us hear from Robert. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® ________________________________ From: "Wachira Kang'aru" <wkangaru@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 17:47:13 +0300 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa Agreed. 6am Thursday at Serena. Breakfast is on me. __________________________________________________ Wachira Kang’aru Manager, Public Relations| Safaricom | Telephone: +254 722 003973 | Mobile: +254 722 574424 On 4 July 2011 16:34, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: Robert/Wachira,
I am in South Africa till Wednesday. If robert is still not satisfied could we have a 6am meeting on Thursday?
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:09:28 +0100 (BST) To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa
Hi Daktari,
We are more than willing to have you mediate on this issue so that we can wash our dirty linen offline.
Please provide your preferred mode of engagement.
Regards
PS: I thank all those who contributed to this discussion Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke>
To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Mon, 4 July, 2011 15:10:37 Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa
Mpesa has changed our image. We are all working to shape it and become a truely Kenyan innovation. It is a new product that in a few years will be even better. Like a new pride in a home, the family does not go public to tell all and sundry that she chews food with her mouth open.
The African way is to use a third party to pass the message politely. I offer to be the intermediary if Robert has exhausted all channels. We have only heard his side of the story. To save the Pride and our pride, let us try my proposal.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 09:47:40 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument. - William G. McAdoo -------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
Robert, That is fine with me. Looking forward to seeing you. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 13:26:11 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa Hi, The time is too early, unlike daktari I still have school going children, lets make it 7:30am my proposal is that we meet in the PS's office where there are no sharp objects like knives and forks. We would also like to know who are coming from Safaricom so that we can decide who to bring along such as lawyers and askaris. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Mon, 4 July, 2011 18:11:24 Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa Let us hear from Robert. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® ________________________________ From: "Wachira Kang'aru" <wkangaru@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 17:47:13 +0300 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa Agreed. 6am Thursday at Serena. Breakfast is on me. __________________________________________________ Wachira Kang’aru Manager, Public Relations| Safaricom | Telephone: +254 722 003973 | Mobile: +254 722 574424 On 4 July 2011 16:34, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: Robert/Wachira,
I am in South Africa till Wednesday. If robert is still not satisfied could we have a 6am meeting on Thursday?
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:09:28 +0100 (BST) To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa
Hi Daktari,
We are more than willing to have you mediate on this issue so that we can wash our dirty linen offline.
Please provide your preferred mode of engagement.
Regards
PS: I thank all those who contributed to this discussion Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke>
To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Mon, 4 July, 2011 15:10:37 Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa
Mpesa has changed our image. We are all working to shape it and become a truely Kenyan innovation. It is a new product that in a few years will be even better. Like a new pride in a home, the family does not go public to tell all and sundry that she chews food with her mouth open.
The African way is to use a third party to pass the message politely. I offer to be the intermediary if Robert has exhausted all channels. We have only heard his side of the story. To save the Pride and our pride, let us try my proposal.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 09:47:40 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world" _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument. - William G. McAdoo -------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world" ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
Thanks Daktari and Bobby we look forward to the new policy document and for contributions from the Policy team as well, with regard to the knowledge society, there are many netizens who lurk in the background and implement most of the issues deliberated on the list, I think this is a positive attribute since we have seen many tangible results emanating from discussions on list, making the discussions too academic might also ward of participants who may hitherto have valid opinions or point, nonetheless, I am sure the researchers on the list have taken note of your positive challenge. On 7/4/11, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Robert/Wachira, I am in South Africa till Wednesday. If robert is still not satisfied could we have a 6am meeting on Thursday?
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:09:28 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa
Hi Daktari,
We are more than willing to have you mediate on this issue so that we can wash our dirty linen offline.
Please provide your preferred mode of engagement.
Regards
PS: I thank all those who contributed to this discussion Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Mon, 4 July, 2011 15:10:37 Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa
Mpesa has changed our image. We are all working to shape it and become a truely Kenyan innovation. It is a new product that in a few years will be even better. Like a new pride in a home, the family does not go public to tell all and sundry that she chews food with her mouth open.
The African way is to use a third party to pass the message politely. I offer to be the intermediary if Robert has exhausted all channels. We have only heard his side of the story. To save the Pride and our pride, let us try my proposal.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 09:47:40 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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Hi Daktari, We are more than willing to have you mediate on this issue so that we can wash our dirty linen offline. Please provide your preferred mode of engagement. Regards PS: I thank all those who contributed to this discussion Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Mon, 4 July, 2011 15:10:37 Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa Mpesa has changed our image. We are all working to shape it and become a truely Kenyan innovation. It is a new product that in a few years will be even better. Like a new pride in a home, the family does not go public to tell all and sundry that she chews food with her mouth open. The African way is to use a third party to pass the message politely. I offer to be the intermediary if Robert has exhausted all channels. We have only heard his side of the story. To save the Pride and our pride, let us try my proposal. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 09:47:40 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.u... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Yes B Ndemo, Mpesa (or shall I say 'Mpisa' as it is sometimes referred to in Europe) has brought great respect for Kenya. However, I would not encourage a hush hush approach to problems that the service may experience. When customers complain in whatever way that they think will get them heard, the company and service improves e.g. the comprehensive response that has been sent out on this issue. If I may add, in the new Constitutional culture of transparency, Kenyans seem to get the best results when matters of public interest (and Mpesa now falls in this category) are handled publicly. regards, Wamuyu Quoting bitange@jambo.co.ke:
Mpesa has changed our image. We are all working to shape it and become a truely Kenyan innovation. It is a new product that in a few years will be even better. Like a new pride in a home, the family does not go public to tell all and sundry that she chews food with her mouth open.
The African way is to use a third party to pass the message politely. I offer to be the intermediary if Robert has exhausted all channels. We have only heard his side of the story. To save the Pride and our pride, let us try my proposal.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 09:47:40 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Even SMs from Safaricom are not being delivered to Orange cdma network yet the sender is being charged. This has been going on since last Friday as that is the day I send someone on the CDMA Network Anyone out there who has experienced the same come forward we take the necessary consumer protection action. Regards
Hi,
I am writing this post with a heavy heart as it will likely reverse gains that have been made in the ecommerce and ebanking/mbanking environment.
A client of mine, who shall remain unnamed for now in typical Kenya fashion, runs a site that accepts payments using the mpesa paybill system. Due to the close similarity in various paybill number there has been a tendency for people to send money to the account erroneously.
As the errors have grown over time the client has had to come up with a way to manage the reversals so us to reduce the impact on their operations. Last week Safaricom accessed the paybill number's account and initiated reversals without notifying them.
How sure is Safaricom that the person who indicated that they had sent the money to the wrong number had not already consumed services? As the post master general in waiting I am concerned that such action would have negative effect on ecommerce as reversal of a transaction based on the request of one party will definitely harm the other.
The reversed transaction still incurs the owner of the paybill number a cost that is not reversed, this issue was previously raised with the former MD of Safaricom Mr. Michael Joseph who instructed one of the managers to look into and resolve. It has been over 2 years and the issue is yet to be concluded.
This action also indicates the issue of Safaricom mistreating SME organisations, if the error was made with the KPLC or Co-Op Bank accounts would the staff have the audacity to make direct reversals on the system?
I believe the term for such action is blatant impunity that can only be practised by a monopolistic player in an industry.
With a heavy heart I send this post hoping that it will act as a wake up call both to Safaricom and the regulators (CCK & Central Bank) that we need better control and monitoring of the money transfer market otherwise we stand to scare the public which would result in its slow down.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________
From:Eugene Lidede (Synergy) [mailto: eugene@synergy.co.ke ] Sent: 04 July 2011 09:05 To: robertyawe@synergy.co.ke Subject: M-PESA irregularities
Robert,
As we spoke; i) Safaricom is now directly manipulating transactions in our M-PESA account without our consent or any manner of reference to us. Is this proper? (see red circle in picture below) ii) They never refund monies deducted from us resulting from the said reversals despite the fact that we are not party to initiating the âwrong paymentsâ (see blue circle). These are wrong payments intended for co-op bankâs 400200 but instead sent to our 400100. iii) This issue has been outstanding since October last year during Michael Josephs days. Safaricom has refused to sort it out. Several emails to their M-PESA department regarding this issue have gone unanswered even those specifically addressed to the referenced Caroline lady. iv) With the deteriorating relationship, it might be time we considered PesaPal, ZAP and Orange money seriously as a payment platform for our retail subscribers
Regards
Eugene Lidede | Chief Technology Officer | Synergy Systems Limited 6th Floor, Phoenix House, Kenyatta Ave. | Cell: +254 721 289497/476367 | Tel: +254 20 2113163 live.mystocks.co.ke | www.propertykenya.com | www.mystocks.co.ke Outstanding Online Investment Content Provider 2009â Computer Society of Kenya ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
On 4 July 2011 11:33, <amugambi@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Even SMs from Safaricom are not being delivered to Orange cdma network yet the sender is being charged. This has been going on since last Friday as that is the day I send someone on the CDMA Network
Anyone out there who has experienced the same come forward we take the necessary consumer protection action.
Regards
Given that we are talking about M-PESA in this thread, Is it not rude to distract the topic of the thread by bringing in another different issue rather than starting its own thread?
Hi,
I am writing this post with a heavy heart as it will likely reverse gains that have been made in the ecommerce and ebanking/mbanking environment.
A client of mine, who shall remain unnamed for now in typical Kenya fashion, runs a site that accepts payments using the mpesa paybill system. Due to the close similarity in various paybill number there has been a tendency for people to send money to the account erroneously.
As the errors have grown over time the client has had to come up with a way to manage the reversals so us to reduce the impact on their operations. Last week Safaricom accessed the paybill number's account and initiated reversals without notifying them.
How sure is Safaricom that the person who indicated that they had sent the money to the wrong number had not already consumed services? As the post master general in waiting I am concerned that such action would have negative effect on ecommerce as reversal of a transaction based on the request of one party will definitely harm the other.
The reversed transaction still incurs the owner of the paybill number a cost that is not reversed, this issue was previously raised with the former MD of Safaricom Mr. Michael Joseph who instructed one of the managers to look into and resolve. It has been over 2 years and the issue is yet to be concluded.
This action also indicates the issue of Safaricom mistreating SME organisations, if the error was made with the KPLC or Co-Op Bank accounts would the staff have the audacity to make direct reversals on the system?
I believe the term for such action is blatant impunity that can only be practised by a monopolistic player in an industry.
With a heavy heart I send this post hoping that it will act as a wake up call both to Safaricom and the regulators (CCK & Central Bank) that we need better control and monitoring of the money transfer market otherwise we stand to scare the public which would result in its slow down.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________
From:Eugene Lidede (Synergy) [mailto: eugene@synergy.co.ke ] Sent: 04 July 2011 09:05 To: robertyawe@synergy.co.ke Subject: M-PESA irregularities
Robert,
As we spoke; i) Safaricom is now directly manipulating transactions in our M-PESA account without our consent or any manner of reference to us. Is this proper? (see red circle in picture below) ii) They never refund monies deducted from us resulting from the said reversals despite the fact that we are not party to initiating the “wrong payments†(see blue circle). These are wrong payments intended for co-op bank’s 400200 but instead sent to our 400100. iii) This issue has been outstanding since October last year during Michael Josephs days. Safaricom has refused to sort it out. Several emails to their M-PESA department regarding this issue have gone unanswered even those specifically addressed to the referenced Caroline lady. iv) With the deteriorating relationship, it might be time we considered PesaPal, ZAP and Orange money seriously as a payment platform for our retail subscribers
Regards
Eugene Lidede | Chief Technology Officer | Synergy Systems Limited 6th Floor, Phoenix House, Kenyatta Ave. | Cell: +254 721 289497/476367 | Tel: +254 20 2113163 live.mystocks.co.ke | www.propertykenya.com | www.mystocks.co.ke Outstanding Online Investment Content Provider 2009– Computer Society of Kenya ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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My apologies Dennis if my contribution distracted any listers attention from the purpose of the thread. Best Regards On 7/4/11, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
On 4 July 2011 11:33, <amugambi@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Even SMs from Safaricom are not being delivered to Orange cdma network yet the sender is being charged. This has been going on since last Friday as that is the day I send someone on the CDMA Network
Anyone out there who has experienced the same come forward we take the necessary consumer protection action.
Regards
Given that we are talking about M-PESA in this thread, Is it not rude to distract the topic of the thread by bringing in another different issue rather than starting its own thread?
Hi,
I am writing this post with a heavy heart as it will likely reverse gains that have been made in the ecommerce and ebanking/mbanking environment.
A client of mine, who shall remain unnamed for now in typical Kenya fashion, runs a site that accepts payments using the mpesa paybill system. Due to the close similarity in various paybill number there has been a tendency for people to send money to the account erroneously.
As the errors have grown over time the client has had to come up with a way to manage the reversals so us to reduce the impact on their operations. Last week Safaricom accessed the paybill number's account and initiated reversals without notifying them.
How sure is Safaricom that the person who indicated that they had sent the money to the wrong number had not already consumed services? As the post master general in waiting I am concerned that such action would have negative effect on ecommerce as reversal of a transaction based on the request of one party will definitely harm the other.
The reversed transaction still incurs the owner of the paybill number a cost that is not reversed, this issue was previously raised with the former MD of Safaricom Mr. Michael Joseph who instructed one of the managers to look into and resolve. It has been over 2 years and the issue is yet to be concluded.
This action also indicates the issue of Safaricom mistreating SME organisations, if the error was made with the KPLC or Co-Op Bank accounts would the staff have the audacity to make direct reversals on the system?
I believe the term for such action is blatant impunity that can only be practised by a monopolistic player in an industry.
With a heavy heart I send this post hoping that it will act as a wake up call both to Safaricom and the regulators (CCK & Central Bank) that we need better control and monitoring of the money transfer market otherwise we stand to scare the public which would result in its slow down.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________
From:Eugene Lidede (Synergy) [mailto: eugene@synergy.co.ke ] Sent: 04 July 2011 09:05 To: robertyawe@synergy.co.ke Subject: M-PESA irregularities
Robert,
As we spoke; i) Safaricom is now directly manipulating transactions in our M-PESA account without our consent or any manner of reference to us. Is this proper? (see red circle in picture below) ii) They never refund monies deducted from us resulting from the said reversals despite the fact that we are not party to initiating the “wrong payments†(see blue circle). These are wrong payments intended for co-op bank’s 400200 but instead sent to our 400100. iii) This issue has been outstanding since October last year during Michael Josephs days. Safaricom has refused to sort it out. Several emails to their M-PESA department regarding this issue have gone unanswered even those specifically addressed to the referenced Caroline lady. iv) With the deteriorating relationship, it might be time we considered PesaPal, ZAP and Orange money seriously as a payment platform for our retail subscribers
Regards
Eugene Lidede | Chief Technology Officer | Synergy Systems Limited 6th Floor, Phoenix House, Kenyatta Ave. | Cell: +254 721 289497/476367 | Tel: +254 20 2113163 live.mystocks.co.ke | www.propertykenya.com | www.mystocks.co.ke Outstanding Online Investment Content Provider 2009– Computer Society of Kenya ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- with Regards:
blog.denniskioko.com <http://www.denniskioko.com/>
-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
Not yours Barrack, but the person talking about SMS delivery. I also think there was a post a while back about mobile operator customer care issues getting raised in the list. On 4 July 2011 12:07, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
My apologies Dennis if my contribution distracted any listers attention from the purpose of the thread.
Best Regards
On 4 July 2011 11:33, <amugambi@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Even SMs from Safaricom are not being delivered to Orange cdma network yet the sender is being charged. This has been going on since last Friday as that is the day I send someone on the CDMA Network
Anyone out there who has experienced the same come forward we take the necessary consumer protection action.
Regards
Given that we are talking about M-PESA in this thread, Is it not rude to distract the topic of the thread by bringing in another different issue rather than starting its own thread?
Hi,
I am writing this post with a heavy heart as it will likely reverse gains that have been made in the ecommerce and ebanking/mbanking environment.
A client of mine, who shall remain unnamed for now in typical Kenya fashion, runs a site that accepts payments using the mpesa paybill system. Due to the close similarity in various paybill number there has been a tendency
for
people to send money to the account erroneously.
As the errors have grown over time the client has had to come up with a way to manage the reversals so us to reduce the impact on their operations. Last week Safaricom accessed the paybill number's account and initiated reversals without notifying them.
How sure is Safaricom that the person who indicated that they had sent the money to the wrong number had not already consumed services? As the post master general in waiting I am concerned that such action would have negative effect on ecommerce as reversal of a transaction based on the request of one
will definitely harm the other.
The reversed transaction still incurs the owner of the paybill number a cost that is not reversed, this issue was previously raised with the former MD of Safaricom Mr. Michael Joseph who instructed one of the managers to look into and resolve. It has been over 2 years and the issue is yet to be concluded.
This action also indicates the issue of Safaricom mistreating SME organisations, if the error was made with the KPLC or Co-Op Bank accounts would the staff have the audacity to make direct reversals on the system?
I believe the term for such action is blatant impunity that can only be practised by a monopolistic player in an industry.
With a heavy heart I send this post hoping that it will act as a wake up call both to Safaricom and the regulators (CCK & Central Bank) that we need better control and monitoring of the money transfer market otherwise we stand to scare the public which would result in its slow down.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________
From:Eugene Lidede (Synergy) [mailto: eugene@synergy.co.ke ] Sent: 04 July 2011 09:05 To: robertyawe@synergy.co.ke Subject: M-PESA irregularities
Robert,
As we spoke; i) Safaricom is now directly manipulating transactions in our M-PESA account without our consent or any manner of reference to us. Is this proper? (see red circle in picture below) ii) They never refund monies deducted from us resulting from the said reversals despite the fact that we are not party to initiating the “wrong payments†(see blue circle). These are wrong payments intended for co-op bank’s 400200 but instead sent to our 400100. iii) This issue has been outstanding since October last year during Michael Josephs days. Safaricom has refused to sort it out. Several emails to their M-PESA department regarding this issue have gone unanswered even those specifically addressed to the referenced Caroline lady. iv) With the deteriorating relationship, it might be time we considered PesaPal, ZAP and Orange money seriously as a payment platform for our retail subscribers
Regards
Eugene Lidede | Chief Technology Officer | Synergy Systems Limited 6th Floor, Phoenix House, Kenyatta Ave. | Cell: +254 721 289497/476367 | Tel: +254 20 2113163 live.mystocks.co.ke | www.propertykenya.com | www.mystocks.co.ke Outstanding Online Investment Content Provider 2009– Computer Society of Kenya ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
On 7/4/11, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote: party platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmbuvi%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- with Regards:
blog.denniskioko.com <http://www.denniskioko.com/>
-- Sent from my mobile device
Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
-- with Regards: blog.denniskioko.com <http://www.denniskioko.com/>
Robert, Thank you for your feedback. We would like to take this opportunity to provide clarity on the reversal process and the steps we taken to ensure the integrity of the system and process while securing subscriber’s cash. Safaricom does not initiate the reversal but in our effort to assist customers who make genuine mistakes, we contact the PayBill partner with a request that they reverse the entry, which they are expected to do after establishing, on their side, that it is indeed a genuine error. Where a customer contacts us that they have paid to the wrong number, we follow the below process; 1. The customer is given the contact numbers for the partner they paid in error to request for a reversal since as Safaricom, we cannot tell if the customer genuinely paid to the wrong client. 2. If the customer is referred back to Safaricom, we contact the partner through an e-mail requesting for assistance. 3. The PayBill partner then reverses the transaction by sending the money back to the customer. 4. If the PayBill partner is unable to reverse the transaction, we reverse it back on their behalf after we receive the instructions from them. The challenge that PayBill partners have been facing is that the charges incurred by them after the reversal to the customer is not reversible. However, we recognize the inconvenience this may pose and our Product Development team is looking into this with a view to come up with a long-term solution. In the meantime, we request our partners to invoice for the value after which we refund them. On a wider scale, we are carrying out the BIG SIM (phone look-up) education to encourage subscribers to save PayBill numbers on their SIMs to avoid such errors. We have also introduced a service that allows our subscribers, on dialing *234#, to look up and verify PayBill account numbers. All this is actively done in keeping with our promise to give the best experience to our customers in all facets of our operations. We are happy to be part of this discussion and appreciate the feedback we are getting. We reiterate our commitment to continue reviewing our processes to improve service offerings. Regards, __________________________________________________ Wachira Kang’aru Public Relations Manager | Safaricom | Telephone: +254 722 003973 | Mobile: +254 722 574424 On 4 July 2011 09:13, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
I am writing this post with a heavy heart as it will likely reverse gains that have been made in the ecommerce and ebanking/mbanking environment.
A client of mine, who shall remain unnamed for now in typical Kenya fashion, runs a site that accepts payments using the mpesa paybill system. Due to the close similarity in various paybill number there has been a tendency for people to send money to the account erroneously.
As the errors have grown over time the client has had to come up with a way to manage the reversals so us to reduce the impact on their operations. Last week Safaricom accessed the paybill number's account and initiated reversals without notifying them.
How sure is Safaricom that the person who indicated that they had sent the money to the wrong number had not already consumed services? As the post master general in waiting I am concerned that such action would have negative effect on ecommerce as reversal of a transaction based on the request of one party will definitely harm the other.
The reversed transaction still incurs the owner of the paybill number a cost that is not reversed, this issue was previously raised with the former MD of Safaricom Mr. Michael Joseph who instructed one of the managers to look into and resolve. It has been over 2 years and the issue is yet to be concluded.
This action also indicates the issue of Safaricom mistreating SME organisations, if the error was made with the KPLC or Co-Op Bank accounts would the staff have the audacity to make direct reversals on the system?
I believe the term for such action is blatant impunity that can only be practised by a monopolistic player in an industry.
With a heavy heart I send this post hoping that it will act as a wake up call both to Safaricom and the regulators (CCK & Central Bank) that we need better control and monitoring of the money transfer market otherwise we stand to scare the public which would result in its slow down.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
------------------------------
*From:* Eugene Lidede (Synergy) [mailto: eugene@synergy.co.ke ] *Sent:* 04 July 2011 09:05 *To:* robertyawe@synergy.co.ke *Subject:* M-PESA irregularities
Robert,
As we spoke;
i) Safaricom is now directly manipulating transactions in our M-PESA account without our consent or any manner of reference to us. Is this proper? (see red circle in picture below)
ii) They never refund monies deducted from us resulting from the said reversals despite the fact that we are not party to initiating the “wrong payments” (see blue circle). These are wrong payments intended for co-op bank’s 400200 but instead sent to our 400100.
iii) This issue has been outstanding since October last year during Michael Josephs days. Safaricom has refused to sort it out. Several emails to their M-PESA department regarding this issue have gone unanswered even those specifically addressed to the referenced Caroline lady.
iv) With the deteriorating relationship, it might be time we considered PesaPal, ZAP and Orange money seriously as a payment platform for our retail subscribers
Regards
*Eugene Lidede | *Chief Technology Officer | Synergy Systems Limited**
6th Floor, Phoenix House, Kenyatta Ave. | Cell: +254 721 289497/476367 | Tel: +254 20 2113163
live.mystocks.co.ke | www.propertykenya.com | www.mystocks.co.ke
*Outstanding Online Investment Content Provider 2009* – Computer Society of Kenya
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Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wkangaru%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument. - William G. McAdoo
Thanks Wachira for informing us on the steps that Safaricom is taking in this matter. As for the Paybill errors, I think that the arrangement suits both parties. I like the USSD Paybill look up too. On 4 July 2011 14:16, Wachira Kang'aru <wkangaru@gmail.com> wrote:
Robert,
Thank you for your feedback.
We would like to take this opportunity to provide clarity on the reversal process and the steps we taken to ensure the integrity of the system and process while securing subscriber’s cash.
Safaricom does not initiate the reversal but in our effort to assist customers who make genuine mistakes, we contact the PayBill partner with a request that they reverse the entry, which they are expected to do after establishing, on their side, that it is indeed a genuine error.
Where a customer contacts us that they have paid to the wrong number, we follow the below process;
1. The customer is given the contact numbers for the partner they paid in error to request for a reversal since as Safaricom, we cannot tell if the customer genuinely paid to the wrong client.
2. If the customer is referred back to Safaricom, we contact the partner through an e-mail requesting for assistance.
3. The PayBill partner then reverses the transaction by sending the money back to the customer.
4. If the PayBill partner is unable to reverse the transaction, we reverse it back on their behalf after we receive the instructions from them.
The challenge that PayBill partners have been facing is that the charges incurred by them after the reversal to the customer is not reversible. However, we recognize the inconvenience this may pose and our Product Development team is looking into this with a view to come up with a long-term solution. In the meantime, we request our partners to invoice for the value after which we refund them.
On a wider scale, we are carrying out the BIG SIM (phone look-up) education to encourage subscribers to save PayBill numbers on their SIMs to avoid such errors. We have also introduced a service that allows our subscribers, on dialing *234#, to look up and verify PayBill account numbers. All this is actively done in keeping with our promise to give the best experience to our customers in all facets of our operations.
We are happy to be part of this discussion and appreciate the feedback we are getting. We reiterate our commitment to continue reviewing our processes to improve service offerings.
Regards,
__________________________________________________
Wachira Kang’aru
Public Relations Manager | Safaricom |
Telephone: +254 722 003973 |
Mobile: +254 722 574424
On 4 July 2011 09:13, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
I am writing this post with a heavy heart as it will likely reverse gains that have been made in the ecommerce and ebanking/mbanking environment.
A client of mine, who shall remain unnamed for now in typical Kenya fashion, runs a site that accepts payments using the mpesa paybill system. Due to the close similarity in various paybill number there has been a tendency for people to send money to the account erroneously.
As the errors have grown over time the client has had to come up with a way to manage the reversals so us to reduce the impact on their operations. Last week Safaricom accessed the paybill number's account and initiated reversals without notifying them.
How sure is Safaricom that the person who indicated that they had sent the money to the wrong number had not already consumed services? As the post master general in waiting I am concerned that such action would have negative effect on ecommerce as reversal of a transaction based on the request of one party will definitely harm the other.
The reversed transaction still incurs the owner of the paybill number a cost that is not reversed, this issue was previously raised with the former MD of Safaricom Mr. Michael Joseph who instructed one of the managers to look into and resolve. It has been over 2 years and the issue is yet to be concluded.
This action also indicates the issue of Safaricom mistreating SME organisations, if the error was made with the KPLC or Co-Op Bank accounts would the staff have the audacity to make direct reversals on the system?
I believe the term for such action is blatant impunity that can only be practised by a monopolistic player in an industry.
With a heavy heart I send this post hoping that it will act as a wake up call both to Safaricom and the regulators (CCK & Central Bank) that we need better control and monitoring of the money transfer market otherwise we stand to scare the public which would result in its slow down.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
------------------------------
*From:* Eugene Lidede (Synergy) [mailto: eugene@synergy.co.ke ] *Sent:* 04 July 2011 09:05 *To:* robertyawe@synergy.co.ke *Subject:* M-PESA irregularities
Robert,
As we spoke;
i) Safaricom is now directly manipulating transactions in our M-PESA account without our consent or any manner of reference to us. Is this proper? (see red circle in picture below)
ii) They never refund monies deducted from us resulting from the said reversals despite the fact that we are not party to initiating the “wrong payments” (see blue circle). These are wrong payments intended for co-op bank’s 400200 but instead sent to our 400100.
iii) This issue has been outstanding since October last year during Michael Josephs days. Safaricom has refused to sort it out. Several emails to their M-PESA department regarding this issue have gone unanswered even those specifically addressed to the referenced Caroline lady.
iv) With the deteriorating relationship, it might be time we considered PesaPal, ZAP and Orange money seriously as a payment platform for our retail subscribers
Regards
*Eugene Lidede | *Chief Technology Officer | Synergy Systems Limited**
6th Floor, Phoenix House, Kenyatta Ave. | Cell: +254 721 289497/476367 | Tel: +254 20 2113163
live.mystocks.co.ke | www.propertykenya.com | www.mystocks.co.ke
*Outstanding Online Investment Content Provider 2009* – Computer Society of Kenya
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument. - William G. McAdoo
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmbuvi%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- with Regards: blog.denniskioko.com <http://www.denniskioko.com/>
participants (7)
-
amugambi＠jambo.co.ke -
Barrack Otieno -
bitange＠jambo.co.ke -
Dennis Kioko -
robert yawe -
Wachira Kang'aru -
Wamuyu Gatheru