KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
Listers, KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes. People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases. Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/... -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu <http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu> PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
@Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a few thousands? Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: nmutungu@gmail.com To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com Listers, KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/... Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu <http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu> PGP ID : 0x33A3450F _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious how this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be encountered on Privacy issues. *Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with. On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a few thousands?
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: nmutungu@gmail.com To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/... -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali. It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what is going to go on here. This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are comfortably going *public* about it. On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious how this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be encountered on Privacy issues.
*Ali Hussein*
*Principal*
*Hussein & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a few thousands?
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: nmutungu@gmail.com To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/... -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer swahilibox.co.ke www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com ajplus.net www.everylayer.com
Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is! There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na m-pesa' dukas. There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie. costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected - case in point - road tax Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money transactions without a court order! Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;) On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.
It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what is going to go on here.
This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are comfortably going *public* about it.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious how this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be encountered on Privacy issues.
*Ali Hussein*
*Principal*
*Hussein & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a few thousands?
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: nmutungu@gmail.com To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/... -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gm...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
swahilibox.co.ke www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com ajplus.net www.everylayer.com
-- Tony White
1. Paybill platform already has a VAT module that can be activated at any time by Safaricom. The equivalent of Paybill is your organisation Point of Sale or better still ERP. 2. Small players don't need to worry as far as VAT is concerned. If your annual turnover is below five million Kenyan shillings, you are not required to register for VAT On 10/05/2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is!
There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na m-pesa' dukas.
There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie. costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected - case in point - road tax
Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money transactions without a court order!
Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;)
On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.
It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what is going to go on here.
This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are comfortably going *public* about it.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious how this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be encountered on Privacy issues.
*Ali Hussein*
*Principal*
*Hussein & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a few thousands?
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: nmutungu@gmail.com To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/... -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gm...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
swahilibox.co.ke www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com ajplus.net www.everylayer.com
-- Tony White
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafr...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
I agree Mwendwa.. This is tapping the aggregated vendors data at the SafariCom Paybill platform...and no consumer data aggregation is required.
Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 20:40:35 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: Kivuva@transworldafrica.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
1. Paybill platform already has a VAT module that can be activated at any time by Safaricom. The equivalent of Paybill is your organisation Point of Sale or better still ERP. 2. Small players don't need to worry as far as VAT is concerned. If your annual turnover is below five million Kenyan shillings, you are not required to register for VAT
On 10/05/2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is!
There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na m-pesa' dukas.
There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie. costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected - case in point - road tax
Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money transactions without a court order!
Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;)
On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.
It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what is going to go on here.
This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are comfortably going *public* about it.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious how this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be encountered on Privacy issues.
*Ali Hussein*
*Principal*
*Hussein & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a few thousands?
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: nmutungu@gmail.com To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/... -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
swahilibox.co.ke www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com ajplus.net www.everylayer.com
-- Tony White
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
At Lawrence, I stand corrected if I am wrong, but the last I remember, there is still no data protection law in Kenya and the draft bill provision on protection of personal data by an agency was too weak to handle matters such as this one. But I've not tracked the progress, was this bill ever passed? Parliament initially wanted to pass it along with the Access to Information one. Regards Beryl Sent from my iPad
On 10 May 2016, at 11:03 PM, Lawrence Njogu via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I agree Mwendwa.. This is tapping the aggregated vendors data at the SafariCom Paybill platform...and no consumer data aggregation is required.
Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 20:40:35 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: Kivuva@transworldafrica.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
1. Paybill platform already has a VAT module that can be activated at any time by Safaricom. The equivalent of Paybill is your organisation Point of Sale or better still ERP. 2. Small players don't need to worry as far as VAT is concerned. If your annual turnover is below five million Kenyan shillings, you are not required to register for VAT
On 10/05/2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is!
There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na m-pesa' dukas.
There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie. costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected - case in point - road tax
Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money transactions without a court order!
Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;)
On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.
It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what is going to go on here.
This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are comfortably going *public* about it.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious how this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be encountered on Privacy issues.
*Ali Hussein*
*Principal*
*Hussein & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a few thousands?
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: nmutungu@gmail.com To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/... -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
swahilibox.co.ke www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com ajplus.net www.everylayer.com
-- Tony White
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@Njogu, @Kivuva, Do not miss the big point. Which is that KRA has no authority (in the absence of Data Protection Act) to seek data from Safaricom, belonging to Safaricom clients - whether merchants, consumers or otherwise. KRA has ofcourse every right to seek the said data directly from the merchants or consumers (data owners) for that matter. Its a slippery path as some have alluded to. Soon KRA will be going to your hospital to demand data on how big your medical bill was for the last financial year - in order to estimated your net worth and compare that with what you declared in your tax returns. Further they will visit the private school where you kids go to school and demand how much school fees you have paid for your 3kids over the last financial year and do the same algorithm. Finally, they will visit your bank, local pub, gym and whatnot and demand the same information. This is all good for KRA, but hey, this data does NOT belong to the hospital, the private school, the local pub or gym. It belongs to YOU. These other entities are simply data custodians and have no right to share your data with NSIS, KRA, or even your wife :-) walu. From: Lawrence Njogu via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: Lawrence Njogu <lnjogu@hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats #yiv3112560641 #yiv3112560641 --.yiv3112560641hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv3112560641 body.yiv3112560641hmmessage{font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}#yiv3112560641 I agree Mwendwa.. This is tapping the aggregated vendors data at the SafariCom Paybill platform...and no consumer data aggregation is required.
Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 20:40:35 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: Kivuva@transworldafrica.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
1. Paybill platform already has a VAT module that can be activated at any time by Safaricom. The equivalent of Paybill is your organisation Point of Sale or better still ERP. 2. Small players don't need to worry as far as VAT is concerned. If your annual turnover is below five million Kenyan shillings, you are not required to register for VAT
On 10/05/2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is!
There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na m-pesa' dukas.
There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie. costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected - case in point - road tax
Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money transactions without a court order!
Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;)
On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.
It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what is going to go on here.
This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are comfortably going *public* about it.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious how this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be encountered on Privacy issues.
*Ali Hussein*
*Principal*
*Hussein & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a few thousands?
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: nmutungu@gmail.com To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/... -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
swahilibox.co.ke www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com ajplus.net www.everylayer.com
-- Tony White
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
In the absence of a legislation that governs the protection of personal data, entities will use their power to seek data from any source in order to fulfill their mandate. Although Kenya has a data protection bill, it does not provide guidance on what is meant by consent, and the legitimate grounds individuals can raise to object the processing of their data. This is also a wake up call for all of us......In this case, KRA is driven by the will to demand tax compliance from merchants, and that is why they are currently focusing on payroll transactions that are aggregated through Mpesa platform. @Walu As you mentioned, KRA has the right to seek data directly from the merchants..and that is exactly what they are doing. Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 05:35:35 +0000 From: jwalu@yahoo.com To: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: lnjogu@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats @Njogu, @Kivuva, Do not miss the big point. Which is that KRA has no authority (in the absence of Data Protection Act) to seek data from Safaricom, belonging to Safaricom clients - whether merchants, consumers or otherwise. KRA has ofcourse every right to seek the said data directly from the merchants or consumers (data owners) for that matter. Its a slippery path as some have alluded to. Soon KRA will be going to your hospital to demand data on how big your medical bill was for the last financial year - in order to estimated your net worth and compare that with what you declared in your tax returns. Further they will visit the private school where you kids go to school and demand how much school fees you have paid for your 3kids over the last financial year and do the same algorithm. Finally, they will visit your bank, local pub, gym and whatnot and demand the same information. This is all good for KRA, but hey, this data does NOT belong to the hospital, the private school, the local pub or gym. It belongs to YOU. These other entities are simply data custodians and have no right to share your data with NSIS, KRA, or even your wife :-) walu. From: Lawrence Njogu via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: Lawrence Njogu <lnjogu@hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats I agree Mwendwa.. This is tapping the aggregated vendors data at the SafariCom Paybill platform...and no consumer data aggregation is required.> Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 20:40:35 +0300> Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats> From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> CC: Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> To: lnjogu@hotmail.com> > 1. Paybill platform already has a VAT module that can be activated at> any time by Safaricom. The equivalent of Paybill is your organisation> Point of Sale or better still ERP.> 2. Small players don't need to worry as far as VAT is concerned. If> your annual turnover is below five million Kenyan shillings, you are> not required to register for VAT> > On 10/05/2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:> > Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if> > Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is!> >> > There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at> > what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na> > m-pesa' dukas.> >> > There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie.> > costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected -> > case in point - road tax> >> > Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank> > transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money> > transactions without a court order!> >> > Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;)> >> >> > On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet> > <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:> >> Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.> >>> >> It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been> >> mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to> >> not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what> >> is> >> going to go on here.> >>> >> This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a> >> great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are> >> comfortably going *public* about it.> >>> >> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <> >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:> >>> >>> This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious> >>> how> >>> this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be> >>> encountered on Privacy issues.> >>>> >>> *Ali Hussein*> >>>> >>> *Principal*> >>>> >>> *Hussein & Associates*> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Tel: +254 713 601113> >>>> >>> Twitter: @AliHKassim> >>>> >>> Skype: abu-jomo> >>>> >>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> >>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely> >>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the> >>> organizations that I work with.> >>>> >>> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet <> >>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:> >>>> >>>> @Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being> >>>> over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a> >>>> few> >>>> thousands?> >>>>> >>>> ------------------------------> >>>> Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300> >>>> Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats> >>>> From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>>> CC: nmutungu@gmail.com> >>>> To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Listers,> >>>>> >>>> KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data> >>>> gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who> >>>> are not paying their fair share of taxes.> >>>>> >>>> People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of> >>>> rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data> >>>> to> >>>> suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make> >>>> purchases.> >>>>> >>>> Full article here:> >>>> http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/3196496/-/brq96h/-/index.html> >>>> --> >>>> Grace L.N. Mutung'u> >>>> Nairobi Kenya> >>>> Skype: gracebomu> >>>> Twitter: @Bomu> >>>>> >>>> <http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>> >>>>> >>>> PGP ID : 0x33A3450F> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list> >>>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or> >>>> change your options at> >>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.com> >>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform> >>>> for> >>>> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and> >>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT> >>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and> >>>> development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of> >>>> acceptable> >>>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times> >>>> and> >>>> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect> >>>> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________> >>>> kictanet mailing list> >>>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> >>>>> >>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at> >>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com> >>>>> >>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform> >>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and> >>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT> >>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and> >>>> development.> >>>>> >>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors> >>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and> >>>> bandwidth,> >>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,> >>>> do> >>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________> >>> kictanet mailing list> >>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> >>>> >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at> >>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gmail.com> >>>> >>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform> >>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and> >>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT> >>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and> >>> development.> >>>> >>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors> >>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and> >>> bandwidth,> >>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do> >>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> --> >> *Ahmed Maawy*> >> Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO)> >> Ambassador - Open Knowledge> >> Director - Startup Grind Mombasa> >> Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer> >> (KE) +254 714 960 627> >> Skype: ultimateprogramer> >>> >> swahilibox.co.ke> >> www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/>> >> startupgrind.com> >> ajplus.net> >> www.everylayer.com> >>> >> >> > --> > Tony White> >> > _______________________________________________> > kictanet mailing list> > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> >> > Unsubscribe or change your options at> > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafrica.com> >> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for> > people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and> > regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT> > sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.> >> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors> > online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,> > share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do> > not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.> > > -- > ______________________> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya> twitter.com/lordmwesh> > _______________________________________________> kictanet mailing list> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> > Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lnjogu%40hotmail.com> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________kictanet mailing listkictanet@lists.kictanet.or.kehttps://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanetUnsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.comThe Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Just curious. Safaricom already has all this data. Is it that violation of privacy will happen when the data is transferred to KRA? Is it that we trust Safaricom more than government? I guess by the mere fact that we embrace technology and use it to achieve all our daily activities privacy in the sense we are discussing diminishes. Rgds, James Kagwe On May 11, 2016 12:55 PM, "Lawrence Njogu via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
In the absence of a legislation that governs the protection of personal data, entities will use their power to seek data from any source in order to fulfill their mandate. Although Kenya has a data protection bill, it does not provide guidance on what is meant by consent, and the legitimate grounds individuals can raise to object the processing of their data. This is also a wake up call for all of us...... In this case, KRA is driven by the will to demand tax compliance from merchants, and that is why they are currently focusing on payroll transactions that are aggregated through Mpesa platform. @Walu As you mentioned, KRA has the right to seek data directly from the merchants..and that is exactly what they are doing.
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 05:35:35 +0000 From: jwalu@yahoo.com To: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: lnjogu@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
@Njogu, @Kivuva,
Do not miss the big point. Which is that KRA has no authority (in the absence of Data Protection Act) to seek data from Safaricom, belonging to Safaricom clients - whether merchants, consumers or otherwise.
KRA has ofcourse every right to seek the said data directly from the merchants or consumers (data owners) for that matter.
Its a slippery path as some have alluded to. Soon KRA will be going to your hospital to demand data on how big your medical bill was for the last financial year - in order to estimated your net worth and compare that with what you declared in your tax returns.
Further they will visit the private school where you kids go to school and demand how much school fees you have paid for your 3kids over the last financial year and do the same algorithm.
Finally, they will visit your bank, local pub, gym and whatnot and demand the same information.
This is all good for KRA, but hey, this data does NOT belong to the hospital, the private school, the local pub or gym. It belongs to YOU. These other entities are simply data custodians and have no right to share your data with NSIS, KRA, or even your wife :-)
walu.
------------------------------ *From:* Lawrence Njogu via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *To:* jwalu@yahoo.com *Cc:* Lawrence Njogu <lnjogu@hotmail.com> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 10, 2016 11:03 PM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
I agree Mwendwa.. This is tapping the aggregated vendors data at the SafariCom Paybill platform...and no consumer data aggregation is required.
Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 20:40:35 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: Kivuva@transworldafrica.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
1. Paybill platform already has a VAT module that can be activated at any time by Safaricom. The equivalent of Paybill is your organisation Point of Sale or better still ERP. 2. Small players don't need to worry as far as VAT is concerned. If your annual turnover is below five million Kenyan shillings, you are not required to register for VAT
Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is!
There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na m-pesa' dukas.
There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie. costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected - case in point - road tax
Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money transactions without a court order!
Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;)
On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.
It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what is going to go on here.
This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are comfortably going *public* about it.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious how this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be encountered on Privacy issues.
*Ali Hussein*
*Principal*
*Hussein & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are
mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys
few thousands?
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: nmutungu@gmail.com To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here:
http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/...
-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
On 10/05/2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: purely transacting a list platform platform privacy, platform privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
swahilibox.co.ke www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com ajplus.net www.everylayer.com
-- Tony White
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people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@Kagwe, Indeed Safcom (and other mobile operators) have the data. Infact they have more data about you and me than we can imagine. With what the have, they can trace out your route from home, to office to your preferred pub and if applicable your *plan b* :-). Further they know whom you talked to and for how long during the day, night and over the last six months. They also know how much you paid for your groceries/supermarket, water bills and power bills, taxi..etc. But its all fine as long as they do not share this data with 3rd parties. Same way your doctor knows your biological profile inside out. It's fine as long as he or she does not Blog about it. Also you lecturer knows how many supplimentaries you had or did not have... Its all fine since that data is collected for a specific purpose relating to their tasks. The moment it is shared to 3rd parties for other purposes - surveillance, tax, marketing, etc, it violates your privacy and requires court orders to sanction. This is the old essence of data protection. 'Old' because I recognise that the post-Google generation (Yr 2000+) seem not to give a hoot about data privacy. After all, they Snapchat, Instagram and Tweet whatever it is they are doing, eating, sleeping, showering and what have you. They seem not to have a private life, and so why try to data-protect it? Very interesting times we live in. walu.nb: KRA can actually access your '3rd party' data through court orders, but not as a matter of routine or standard working procedure. From: James Kagwe via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: James Kagwe <kagwejg@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats Just curious. Safaricom already has all this data. Is it that violation of privacy will happen when the data is transferred to KRA? Is it that we trust Safaricom more than government? I guess by the mere fact that we embrace technology and use it to achieve all our daily activities privacy in the sense we are discussing diminishes.Rgds, James KagweOn May 11, 2016 12:55 PM, "Lawrence Njogu via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: In the absence of a legislation that governs the protection of personal data, entities will use their power to seek data from any source in order to fulfill their mandate. Although Kenya has a data protection bill, it does not provide guidance on what is meant by consent, and the legitimate grounds individuals can raise to object the processing of their data. This is also a wake up call for all of us......In this case, KRA is driven by the will to demand tax compliance from merchants, and that is why they are currently focusing on payroll transactions that are aggregated through Mpesa platform. @Walu As you mentioned, KRA has the right to seek data directly from the merchants..and that is exactly what they are doing. Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 05:35:35 +0000 From: jwalu@yahoo.com To: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: lnjogu@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats @Njogu, @Kivuva, Do not miss the big point. Which is that KRA has no authority (in the absence of Data Protection Act) to seek data from Safaricom, belonging to Safaricom clients - whether merchants, consumers or otherwise. KRA has ofcourse every right to seek the said data directly from the merchants or consumers (data owners) for that matter. Its a slippery path as some have alluded to. Soon KRA will be going to your hospital to demand data on how big your medical bill was for the last financial year - in order to estimated your net worth and compare that with what you declared in your tax returns. Further they will visit the private school where you kids go to school and demand how much school fees you have paid for your 3kids over the last financial year and do the same algorithm. Finally, they will visit your bank, local pub, gym and whatnot and demand the same information. This is all good for KRA, but hey, this data does NOT belong to the hospital, the private school, the local pub or gym. It belongs to YOU. These other entities are simply data custodians and have no right to share your data with NSIS, KRA, or even your wife :-) walu. From: Lawrence Njogu via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: Lawrence Njogu <lnjogu@hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats I agree Mwendwa.. This is tapping the aggregated vendors data at the SafariCom Paybill platform...and no consumer data aggregation is required.
Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 20:40:35 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: Kivuva@transworldafrica.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
1. Paybill platform already has a VAT module that can be activated at any time by Safaricom. The equivalent of Paybill is your organisation Point of Sale or better still ERP. 2. Small players don't need to worry as far as VAT is concerned. If your annual turnover is below five million Kenyan shillings, you are not required to register for VAT
On 10/05/2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is!
There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na m-pesa' dukas.
There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie. costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected - case in point - road tax
Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money transactions without a court order!
Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;)
On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.
It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what is going to go on here.
This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are comfortably going *public* about it.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious how this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be encountered on Privacy issues.
*Ali Hussein*
*Principal*
*Hussein & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a few thousands?
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: nmutungu@gmail.com To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/... -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
swahilibox.co.ke www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com ajplus.net www.everylayer.com
-- Tony White
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kagwejg%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Safaricom is actually a state corporation since the government has shareholding. They can argue it’s a government department sharing information with another government department. Regards, From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+awatila=yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of James Kagwe via kictanet Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:43 PM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: James Kagwe <kagwejg@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats Just curious. Safaricom already has all this data. Is it that violation of privacy will happen when the data is transferred to KRA? Is it that we trust Safaricom more than government? I guess by the mere fact that we embrace technology and use it to achieve all our daily activities privacy in the sense we are discussing diminishes. Rgds, James Kagwe On May 11, 2016 12:55 PM, "Lawrence Njogu via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > wrote: In the absence of a legislation that governs the protection of personal data, entities will use their power to seek data from any source in order to fulfill their mandate. Although Kenya has a data protection bill, it does not provide guidance on what is meant by consent, and the legitimate grounds individuals can raise to object the processing of their data. This is also a wake up call for all of us...... In this case, KRA is driven by the will to demand tax compliance from merchants, and that is why they are currently focusing on payroll transactions that are aggregated through Mpesa platform. @Walu As you mentioned, KRA has the right to seek data directly from the merchants..and that is exactly what they are doing. _____ Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 05:35:35 +0000 From: jwalu@yahoo.com <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> To: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> CC: lnjogu@hotmail.com <mailto:lnjogu@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats @Njogu, @Kivuva, Do not miss the big point. Which is that KRA has no authority (in the absence of Data Protection Act) to seek data from Safaricom, belonging to Safaricom clients - whether merchants, consumers or otherwise. KRA has ofcourse every right to seek the said data directly from the merchants or consumers (data owners) for that matter. Its a slippery path as some have alluded to. Soon KRA will be going to your hospital to demand data on how big your medical bill was for the last financial year - in order to estimated your net worth and compare that with what you declared in your tax returns. Further they will visit the private school where you kids go to school and demand how much school fees you have paid for your 3kids over the last financial year and do the same algorithm. Finally, they will visit your bank, local pub, gym and whatnot and demand the same information. This is all good for KRA, but hey, this data does NOT belong to the hospital, the private school, the local pub or gym. It belongs to YOU. These other entities are simply data custodians and have no right to share your data with NSIS, KRA, or even your wife :-) walu. _____ From: Lawrence Njogu via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > To: jwalu@yahoo.com <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: Lawrence Njogu <lnjogu@hotmail.com <mailto:lnjogu@hotmail.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats I agree Mwendwa.. This is tapping the aggregated vendors data at the SafariCom Paybill platform...and no consumer data aggregation is required.
Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 20:40:35 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> CC: Kivuva@transworldafrica.com <mailto:Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> To: lnjogu@hotmail.com <mailto:lnjogu@hotmail.com>
1. Paybill platform already has a VAT module that can be activated at any time by Safaricom. The equivalent of Paybill is your organisation Point of Sale or better still ERP. 2. Small players don't need to worry as far as VAT is concerned. If your annual turnover is below five million Kenyan shillings, you are not required to register for VAT
On 10/05/2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > wrote:
Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is!
There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na m-pesa' dukas.
There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie. costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected - case in point - road tax
Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money transactions without a court order!
Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;)
On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > wrote:
Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.
It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what is going to go on here.
This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are comfortably going *public* about it.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > wrote:
This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious how this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be encountered on Privacy issues.
*Ali Hussein*
*Principal*
*Hussein & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > wrote:
@Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a few thousands?
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> CC: nmutungu@gmail.com <mailto:nmutungu@gmail.com> To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com <mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>
Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/... -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
swahilibox.co.ke <http://swahilibox.co.ke> www.okfn.org <http://www.okfn.org> <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com <http://startupgrind.com> ajplus.net <http://ajplus.net> www.everylayer.com <http://www.everylayer.com>
-- Tony White
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh <http://twitter.com/lordmwesh>
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kagwejg%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
I think we are forgetting one thing here. This is data mining for the masses. Not an individual business. In this specific case, there is a very fine line between investigating the books of a business and mass surveillance. On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Alex Watila via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Safaricom is actually a state corporation since the government has shareholding.
They can argue it’s a government department sharing information with another government department.
Regards,
*From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+awatila= yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *James Kagwe via kictanet *Sent:* Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:43 PM *To:* awatila@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* James Kagwe <kagwejg@gmail.com>
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
Just curious. Safaricom already has all this data. Is it that violation of privacy will happen when the data is transferred to KRA? Is it that we trust Safaricom more than government? I guess by the mere fact that we embrace technology and use it to achieve all our daily activities privacy in the sense we are discussing diminishes.
Rgds, James Kagwe
On May 11, 2016 12:55 PM, "Lawrence Njogu via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
In the absence of a legislation that governs the protection of personal data, entities will use their power to seek data from any source in order to fulfill their mandate. Although Kenya has a data protection bill, it does not provide guidance on what is meant by consent, and the legitimate grounds individuals can raise to object the processing of their data. This is also a wake up call for all of us......
In this case, KRA is driven by the will to demand tax compliance from merchants, and that is why they are currently focusing on payroll transactions that are aggregated through Mpesa platform.
@Walu As you mentioned, KRA has the right to seek data directly from the merchants..and that is exactly what they are doing.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 05:35:35 +0000 From: jwalu@yahoo.com To: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: lnjogu@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
@Njogu, @Kivuva,
Do not miss the big point. Which is that KRA has no authority (in the absence of Data Protection Act) to seek data from Safaricom, belonging to Safaricom clients - whether merchants, consumers or otherwise.
KRA has ofcourse every right to seek the said data directly from the merchants or consumers (data owners) for that matter.
Its a slippery path as some have alluded to. Soon KRA will be going to your hospital to demand data on how big your medical bill was for the last financial year - in order to estimated your net worth and compare that with what you declared in your tax returns.
Further they will visit the private school where you kids go to school and demand how much school fees you have paid for your 3kids over the last financial year and do the same algorithm.
Finally, they will visit your bank, local pub, gym and whatnot and demand the same information.
This is all good for KRA, but hey, this data does NOT belong to the hospital, the private school, the local pub or gym. It belongs to YOU. These other entities are simply data custodians and have no right to share your data with NSIS, KRA, or even your wife :-)
walu.
------------------------------
*From:* Lawrence Njogu via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *To:* jwalu@yahoo.com *Cc:* Lawrence Njogu <lnjogu@hotmail.com> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 10, 2016 11:03 PM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
I agree Mwendwa.. This is tapping the aggregated vendors data at the SafariCom Paybill platform...and no consumer data aggregation is required.
Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 20:40:35 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: Kivuva@transworldafrica.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
1. Paybill platform already has a VAT module that can be activated at any time by Safaricom. The equivalent of Paybill is your organisation Point of Sale or better still ERP. 2. Small players don't need to worry as far as VAT is concerned. If your annual turnover is below five million Kenyan shillings, you are not required to register for VAT
Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is!
There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na m-pesa' dukas.
There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie. costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected - case in point - road tax
Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money transactions without a court order!
Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;)
On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.
It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what is going to go on here.
This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are comfortably going *public* about it.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious how this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be encountered on Privacy issues.
*Ali Hussein*
*Principal*
*Hussein & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are
mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys
few thousands?
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: nmutungu@gmail.com To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here:
http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/...
-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing
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for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
On 10/05/2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: purely transacting a list platform platform privacy, platform privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
swahilibox.co.ke www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com ajplus.net www.everylayer.com
-- Tony White
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platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer swahilibox.co.ke www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com ajplus.net www.everylayer.com
Quite Possible...infact Safaricom and other data custodians (Hospitals, Supermarkets, Universities, Banks, etc) may share data with anyone they want (not just KRA) and there is very little you and I can do about it. Precisely why you need the Data Protection Act (if your were born before-Google :-). So that when they do, you can at least sue them and make lawyers happy. walu. From: Alex Watila via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats #yiv4678713980 #yiv4678713980 -- _filtered #yiv4678713980 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4678713980 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4678713980 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv4678713980 #yiv4678713980 p.yiv4678713980MsoNormal, #yiv4678713980 li.yiv4678713980MsoNormal, #yiv4678713980 div.yiv4678713980MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4678713980 a:link, #yiv4678713980 span.yiv4678713980MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4678713980 a:visited, #yiv4678713980 span.yiv4678713980MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4678713980 p {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4678713980 span.yiv4678713980EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv4678713980 .yiv4678713980MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv4678713980 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv4678713980 div.yiv4678713980WordSection1 {}#yiv4678713980 Safaricom is actually a state corporation since the government has shareholding.They can argue it’s a government department sharing information with another government department. Regards, From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+awatila=yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of James Kagwe via kictanet Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:43 PM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: James Kagwe <kagwejg@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats Just curious. Safaricom already has all this data. Is it that violation of privacy will happen when the data is transferred to KRA? Is it that we trust Safaricom more than government? I guess by the mere fact that we embrace technology and use it to achieve all our daily activities privacy in the sense we are discussing diminishes.Rgds, James KagweOn May 11, 2016 12:55 PM, "Lawrence Njogu via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: In the absence of a legislation that governs the protection of personal data, entities will use their power to seek data from any source in order to fulfill their mandate. Although Kenya has a data protection bill, it does not provide guidance on what is meant by consent, and the legitimate grounds individuals can raise to object the processing of their data. This is also a wake up call for all of us......In this case, KRA is driven by the will to demand tax compliance from merchants, and that is why they are currently focusing on payroll transactions that are aggregated through Mpesa platform. @Walu As you mentioned, KRA has the right to seek data directly from the merchants..and that is exactly what they are doing. Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 05:35:35 +0000 From: jwalu@yahoo.com To: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: lnjogu@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats@Njogu, @Kivuva, Do not miss the big point. Which is that KRA has no authority (in the absence of Data Protection Act) to seek data from Safaricom, belonging to Safaricom clients - whether merchants, consumers or otherwise. KRA has ofcourse every right to seek the said data directly from the merchants or consumers (data owners) for that matter. Its a slippery path as some have alluded to. Soon KRA will be going to your hospital to demand data on how big your medical bill was for the last financial year - in order to estimated your net worth and compare that with what you declared in your tax returns. Further they will visit the private school where you kids go to school and demand how much school fees you have paid for your 3kids over the last financial year and do the same algorithm. Finally, they will visit your bank, local pub, gym and whatnot and demand the same information. This is all good for KRA, but hey, this data does NOT belong to the hospital, the private school, the local pub or gym. It belongs to YOU. These other entities are simply data custodians and have no right to share your data with NSIS, KRA, or even your wife :-) walu. From: Lawrence Njogu via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: Lawrence Njogu <lnjogu@hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats I agree Mwendwa.. This is tapping the aggregated vendors data at the SafariCom Paybill platform...and no consumer data aggregation is required.> Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 20:40:35 +0300
Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: Kivuva@transworldafrica.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
1. Paybill platform already has a VAT module that can be activated at any time by Safaricom. The equivalent of Paybill is your organisation Point of Sale or better still ERP. 2. Small players don't need to worry as far as VAT is concerned. If your annual turnover is below five million Kenyan shillings, you are not required to register for VAT
On 10/05/2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is!
There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na m-pesa' dukas.
There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie. costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected - case in point - road tax
Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money transactions without a court order!
Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;)
On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.
It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what is going to go on here.
This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are comfortably going *public* about it.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious how this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be encountered on Privacy issues.
*Ali Hussein*
*Principal*
*Hussein & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a few thousands?
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: nmutungu@gmail.com To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/... -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
swahilibox.co.ke www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com ajplus.net www.everylayer.com
-- Tony White
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kagwejg%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Walu, It may be possible that the current KRA act already allows them to do that. For example from the kra website http://www.revenue.go.ke/index.php/domestic-taxes/vat/power-of-the-commissio... they indicate they already have the following powers under the VAT act (a) To enter business premises without any warrant during normal working hours or at any time when there is evidence of fraud. (b) To examine premises, books, documents and records (c) To have and exercise all the rights, powers, privileges and protection of a police officer. Regards, From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+awatila=yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Walubengo J via kictanet Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 8:36 AM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats @Njogu, @Kivuva, Do not miss the big point. Which is that KRA has no authority (in the absence of Data Protection Act) to seek data from Safaricom, belonging to Safaricom clients - whether merchants, consumers or otherwise. KRA has ofcourse every right to seek the said data directly from the merchants or consumers (data owners) for that matter. Its a slippery path as some have alluded to. Soon KRA will be going to your hospital to demand data on how big your medical bill was for the last financial year - in order to estimated your net worth and compare that with what you declared in your tax returns. Further they will visit the private school where you kids go to school and demand how much school fees you have paid for your 3kids over the last financial year and do the same algorithm. Finally, they will visit your bank, local pub, gym and whatnot and demand the same information. This is all good for KRA, but hey, this data does NOT belong to the hospital, the private school, the local pub or gym. It belongs to YOU. These other entities are simply data custodians and have no right to share your data with NSIS, KRA, or even your wife :-) walu. _____ From: Lawrence Njogu via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > To: jwalu@yahoo.com <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: Lawrence Njogu <lnjogu@hotmail.com <mailto:lnjogu@hotmail.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats I agree Mwendwa.. This is tapping the aggregated vendors data at the SafariCom Paybill platform...and no consumer data aggregation is required.
Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 20:40:35 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> CC: Kivuva@transworldafrica.com <mailto:Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> To: lnjogu@hotmail.com <mailto:lnjogu@hotmail.com>
1. Paybill platform already has a VAT module that can be activated at any time by Safaricom. The equivalent of Paybill is your organisation Point of Sale or better still ERP. 2. Small players don't need to worry as far as VAT is concerned. If your annual turnover is below five million Kenyan shillings, you are not required to register for VAT
On 10/05/2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > wrote:
Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is!
There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na m-pesa' dukas.
There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie. costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected - case in point - road tax
Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money transactions without a court order!
Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;)
On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > wrote:
Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.
It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what is going to go on here.
This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are comfortably going *public* about it.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > wrote:
This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious how this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be encountered on Privacy issues.
*Ali Hussein*
*Principal*
*Hussein & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > wrote:
@Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a few thousands?
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> CC: nmutungu@gmail.com <mailto:nmutungu@gmail.com> To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com <mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>
Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/... -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@Watila, the big point again is '3rd Party'. KRA may/can bust into Safaricom or any other business premise anytime. But when they do so, they can only carry data relating to Safaricom business. Not Safaricom's customer data. Examples:They can ask Agha-khan Hospital to account for their invoices/reciepts. But I would be scared if Agha-khan starts giving them my medical records (My name, which doctor I saw, what I am suffering from, etc). They can ask MMU to account for student fees (invoices/receipts). But I would be very suprised if the Accountant starts giving them student names, class registers and CAT marks. In short, there is a difference between data owned by the business entity (which KRA has express right to access) and data which the business collects about you in the course of their work (which belongs to you and KRA cannot /should not get it through that business entity but from you - unless permitted to do so by a court order). walu. From: Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> To: 'Walubengo J' <jwalu@yahoo.com>; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 4:09 PM Subject: RE: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats #yiv3552560940 #yiv3552560940 -- _filtered #yiv3552560940 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3552560940 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3552560940 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3552560940 {font-family:Verdana;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv3552560940 #yiv3552560940 p.yiv3552560940MsoNormal, #yiv3552560940 li.yiv3552560940MsoNormal, #yiv3552560940 div.yiv3552560940MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv3552560940 a:link, #yiv3552560940 span.yiv3552560940MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3552560940 a:visited, #yiv3552560940 span.yiv3552560940MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3552560940 span.yiv3552560940EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv3552560940 span.yiv3552560940apple-converted-space {}#yiv3552560940 .yiv3552560940MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv3552560940 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv3552560940 div.yiv3552560940WordSection1 {}#yiv3552560940 Walu,It may be possible that the current KRA act already allows them to do that. For example from the kra website http://www.revenue.go.ke/index.php/domestic-taxes/vat/power-of-the-commissio... they indicate they already have the following powers under the VAT act (a) To enter business premises without any warrant during normal working hours or at any time when there is evidence of fraud. (b) To examine premises, books, documents and records (c) To have and exercise all the rights, powers, privileges and protection of a police officer. Regards, From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+awatila=yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Walubengo J via kictanet Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 8:36 AM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats @Njogu, @Kivuva, Do not miss the big point. Which is that KRA has no authority (in the absence of Data Protection Act) to seek data from Safaricom, belonging to Safaricom clients - whether merchants, consumers or otherwise. KRA has ofcourse every right to seek the said data directly from the merchants or consumers (data owners) for that matter. Its a slippery path as some have alluded to. Soon KRA will be going to your hospital to demand data on how big your medical bill was for the last financial year - in order to estimated your net worth and compare that with what you declared in your tax returns. Further they will visit the private school where you kids go to school and demand how much school fees you have paid for your 3kids over the last financial year and do the same algorithm. Finally, they will visit your bank, local pub, gym and whatnot and demand the same information. This is all good for KRA, but hey, this data does NOT belong to the hospital, the private school, the local pub or gym. It belongs to YOU. These other entities are simply data custodians and have no right to share your data with NSIS, KRA, or even your wife :-) walu. From: Lawrence Njogu via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: Lawrence Njogu <lnjogu@hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats I agree Mwendwa.. This is tapping the aggregated vendors data at the SafariCom Paybill platform...and no consumer data aggregation is required.> Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 20:40:35 +0300
Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: Kivuva@transworldafrica.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
1. Paybill platform already has a VAT module that can be activated at any time by Safaricom. The equivalent of Paybill is your organisation Point of Sale or better still ERP. 2. Small players don't need to worry as far as VAT is concerned. If your annual turnover is below five million Kenyan shillings, you are not required to register for VAT
On 10/05/2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is!
There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na m-pesa' dukas.
There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie. costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected - case in point - road tax
Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money transactions without a court order!
Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;)
On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.
It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what is going to go on here.
This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are comfortably going *public* about it.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious how this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be encountered on Privacy issues.
*Ali Hussein*
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*Hussein & Associates*
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On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a few thousands?
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: nmutungu@gmail.com To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/... -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
swahilibox.co.ke www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com ajplus.net www.everylayer.com
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Good strategy from KRA... Big problem for Citizen data/Data Privacy. As a country, we should first enact the Data Protection Act before trying to force Safarcom to share data that does not legally belong to them. Otherwise soon, KRA will want to know what you did with your credit card, medical insurance card, debit card etc - all with the good intention of raising our national tax revenue. But remember, what the CBK governor told citizen 'Baba'? Cant share client data without express permission from the data owner :-) Safcom can - and if they follow international best practice - will likely do the same to KRA. walu. From: Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 2:09 PM Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats Listers, KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/... Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu <http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu> PGP ID : 0x33A3450F _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Listers, This is very very dicey... Collecting data on our Mpesa Transactions is akin to KRA collecting data on our Bank Transactions. That is simply not allowed en'masse, unless by a court order. Put it this way, there's no way KRA can get a data feed from *all* the banks on our financial transactions and hence this extends to MPesa et.al Why? If you have my entire financial records then you know just about *everything* about me such as where I am at any one time, where I eat, where I take my kids to school, friends I associate with, girlfriends, boyfriends, medical history etc Basically *everything* that violates my rights to privacy and that's why there is a process that has to be followed to get such information. Sent from [Nylas N1](https://nylas.com/n1?ref=n1), the extensible, open source mail client. On May 10 2016, at 2:10 pm, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here: <http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to- catch-tax-cheats/-/996/3196496/-/brq96h/-/index.html>
\--
Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>>;
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
Ngugi Can't agree with you more. That's why I said that KRA's move to expand the Tax Bracket is commendable. The current thinking about how to go about it is what's slippery. Let's take your bank information analogy one step further:- In the world of AML (Anti Money Laundering) Compliance and prudential rules there is something called False Positives. This basically means the AML Software flags suspicious names that may have been flagged globally due to similarities with known jihadi/ISIL/AlShabaab etc type groups. Names like:- 1. Obama - too similar to Osama :-) 2. Hussein - Relative to Saddam Hussein :-) 3. Abu-Bakr - namesake to ISIL Leader I can go on but you get the drift. The reason why there's no blanket flag and why there's a so called 'white list' is exactly why government's don't have a blanket rule to scrutinize all bank accounts. I support the expansion of the Tax Bracket by innovative means. I'd just be careful not to trod on personal liberties and privacy. Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad
On 11 May 2016, at 12:24 AM, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers, This is very very dicey... Collecting data on our Mpesa Transactions is akin to KRA collecting data on our Bank Transactions.
That is simply not allowed en'masse, unless by a court order. Put it this way, there's no way KRA can get a data feed from *all* the banks on our financial transactions and hence this extends to MPesa et.al
Why? If you have my entire financial records then you know just about *everything* about me such as where I am at any one time, where I eat, where I take my kids to school, friends I associate with, girlfriends, boyfriends, medical history etc
Basically *everything* that violates my rights to privacy and that's why there is a process that has to be followed to get such information.
Sent from Nylas N1, the extensible, open source mail client.
On May 10 2016, at 2:10 pm, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/...
-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (12)
-
Ahmed Mohamed Maawy -
Alex Watila -
Ali Hussein -
Beryl Aidi -
Grace Githaiga -
Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) -
James Kagwe -
Lawrence Njogu -
Mwendwa Kivuva -
Ngigi Waithaka -
Tony White -
Walubengo J