Safaricom is actually a state corporation since the government has shareholding.
They can argue it’s a government department sharing information with another government department.
Regards,
From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+awatila=yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of James Kagwe via kictanet
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:43 PM
To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: James Kagwe <kagwejg@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
Just curious. Safaricom already has all this data. Is it that violation of privacy will happen when the data is transferred to KRA? Is it that we trust Safaricom more than government? I guess by the mere fact that we embrace technology and use it to achieve all our daily activities privacy in the sense we are discussing diminishes.
Rgds,
James KagweOn May 11, 2016 12:55 PM, "Lawrence Njogu via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
In the absence of a legislation that governs the protection of personal data, entities will use their power to seek data from any source in order to fulfill their mandate. Although Kenya has a data protection bill, it does not provide guidance on what is meant by consent, and the legitimate grounds individuals can raise to object the processing of their data. This is also a wake up call for all of us......
In this case, KRA is driven by the will to demand tax compliance from merchants, and that is why they are currently focusing on payroll transactions that are aggregated through Mpesa platform.
@Walu As you mentioned, KRA has the right to seek data directly from the merchants..and that is exactly what they are doing.
Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 05:35:35 +0000
From: jwalu@yahoo.com
To: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
CC: lnjogu@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats@Njogu, @Kivuva,
Do not miss the big point. Which is that KRA has no authority (in the absence of Data Protection Act) to seek data from Safaricom, belonging to Safaricom clients - whether merchants, consumers or otherwise.
KRA has ofcourse every right to seek the said data directly from the merchants or consumers (data owners) for that matter.
Its a slippery path as some have alluded to. Soon KRA will be going to your hospital to demand data on how big your medical bill was for the last financial year - in order to estimated your net worth and compare that with what you declared in your tax returns.
Further they will visit the private school where you kids go to school and demand how much school fees you have paid for your 3kids over the last financial year and do the same algorithm.
Finally, they will visit your bank, local pub, gym and whatnot and demand the same information.
This is all good for KRA, but hey, this data does NOT belong to the hospital, the private school, the local pub or gym. It belongs to YOU. These other entities are simply data custodians and have no right to share your data with NSIS, KRA, or even your wife :-)
walu.
From: Lawrence Njogu via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
To: jwalu@yahoo.com
Cc: Lawrence Njogu <lnjogu@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
I agree Mwendwa.. This is tapping the aggregated vendors data at the SafariCom Paybill platform...and no consumer data aggregation is required.
> Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 20:40:35 +0300
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
> From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> CC: Kivuva@transworldafrica.com
> To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
>
> 1. Paybill platform already has a VAT module that can be activated at
> any time by Safaricom. The equivalent of Paybill is your organisation
> Point of Sale or better still ERP.
> 2. Small players don't need to worry as far as VAT is concerned. If
> your annual turnover is below five million Kenyan shillings, you are
> not required to register for VAT
>
> On 10/05/2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> > Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if
> > Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is!
> >
> > There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at
> > what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na
> > m-pesa' dukas.
> >
> > There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie.
> > costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected -
> > case in point - road tax
> >
> > Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank
> > transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money
> > transactions without a court order!
> >
> > Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;)
> >
> >
> > On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet
> > <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >> Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.
> >>
> >> It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been
> >> mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to
> >> not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what
> >> is
> >> going to go on here.
> >>
> >> This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a
> >> great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are
> >> comfortably going *public* about it.
> >>
> >> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <
> >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>
> >>> This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious
> >>> how
> >>> this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be
> >>> encountered on Privacy issues.
> >>>
> >>> *Ali Hussein*
> >>>
> >>> *Principal*
> >>>
> >>> *Hussein & Associates*
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Tel: +254 713 601113
> >>>
> >>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> >>>
> >>> Skype: abu-jomo
> >>>
> >>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> >>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
> >>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
> >>> organizations that I work with.
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet <
> >>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> @Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being
> >>>> over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a
> >>>> few
> >>>> thousands?
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------
> >>>> Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300
> >>>> Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
> >>>> From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >>>> CC: nmutungu@gmail.com
> >>>> To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Listers,
> >>>>
> >>>> KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data
> >>>> gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who
> >>>> are not paying their fair share of taxes.
> >>>>
> >>>> People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of
> >>>> rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data
> >>>> to
> >>>> suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make
> >>>> purchases.
> >>>>
> >>>> Full article here:
> >>>> http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/3196496/-/brq96h/-/index.html
> >>>> --
> >>>> Grace L.N. Mutung'u
> >>>> Nairobi Kenya
> >>>> Skype: gracebomu
> >>>> Twitter: @Bomu
> >>>>
> >>>> <http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
> >>>>
> >>>> PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list
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> >>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or
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> >>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.com
> >>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
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> >>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> >>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
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> >>>
> >>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> *Ahmed Maawy*
> >> Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO)
> >> Ambassador - Open Knowledge
> >> Director - Startup Grind Mombasa
> >> Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer
> >> (KE) +254 714 960 627
> >> Skype: ultimateprogramer
> >>
> >> swahilibox.co.ke
> >> www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/>
> >> startupgrind.com
> >> ajplus.net
> >> www.everylayer.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tony White
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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> >
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> > people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
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> > sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> >
> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
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> > not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
>
> --
> ______________________
> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
> twitter.com/lordmwesh
>
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.