Re: [kictanet] [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of Kenyan Wealth Owned by Foreigners
This is an interesting research study. That "Kenyans" own only 31% of "Kenya's" wealth!!! I wonder if there is anybody else perturbed by this fact like me - if at all it is true; and I have no reason to doubt the EA Standard! Apart from South Africa and Nigeria which have enacted laws that restrict the % of stake foreigners can own in banks, Ethiopia too has some interesting laws. There are sectors like banking, broadcasting and air-transport (for aircrafts of less than 20 seating capacity) that are reserved exclusively to 'domestic investors'. There are also sectors (like telecoms) where an investor can only co-invest in partnership with the Government (e.g. currently ZTE/ETC are rolling out a US$ 1.5billion national fiber backbone!!!). One can easily dismiss these Ethiopian (or Nigerian or SAfrican) policies as 'repugnant' - until this 'Kenyan' experience hits you! Wams thanks for sharing! SO --- On Wed, 6/18/08, Margaret Gichuki <Wams2006@gmail.com> wrote: From: Margaret Gichuki <Wams2006@gmail.com> Subject: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of Kenyan Wealth Owned by Foreigners To: "KCA" <kca_main@yahoogroups.com> Cc: NewVisionKenya@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 6:37 PM ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: nmatunda <matunda@hotmail. com> Date: Jun 18, 2008 3:03 PM Subject: [africa-oped] Bulk of Kenyan Wealth Owned by Foreigners To: africa-oped@ yahoogroups. com For many years I have tried to make the point made by Kamau Ngotho below! I am glad that someone has done some research that exposes the fallacy of Kenyans "owning" Kenya. Yet, looking back on events of the past, Kenyans have killed and maimed fellow Kenyans in the pretext that some have eaten more. The real culprits (and we need a national solution for this) are foreign ownership and skewed wealth distribution Read on! By Kamau Ngotho The bulk of Kenya's wealth is in foreign hands, according to statistics obtained exclusively by The Sunday Standard. If Kenya were a cake to be shared out, Kenyans would only lay claim to 31 per cent of the country's total wealth. The rest would go to foreigners. Agriculture, tourism and banking, which combined bring in the country's largest earnings, are in foreign hands. Last year, tea, tourism, flowers and coffee earned the country Sh140 billion, nearly half of the annual national budget. Of this money, only 31 per cent ended up in the country � as tax and real earnings to the nationals. And shareholding in the richest 20 companies that trade at the Nairobi Stock Exchange is foreign. The skewed distribution of wealth between foreigners and Kenyans puts paid to all efforts since independence to hand control of the country to its citizens. Tea growing, which earned the country Sh43.5 billion last year, is concentrated in the hands of six leading agricultural companies whose shareholding is largely foreign. Up to 78 per cent of earnings from tea went, therefore, to foreigners � leaving the balance for Kenyans. The Big Six in the tea sector are Unilever Tea Kenya, Kakuzi Ltd, Williamson Tea Company, Kapchorua Tea, Limuru Tea Company and Sasini Coffee and Tea. The British-owned Brooke Bond Group holds 43.1 million shares of the total 48.8 million shares issued in Univeler Tea Kenya. The same group owns 54 per cent of the total 3.9 million shares issued in Limuru Tea Company. In Kakuzi Ltd, foreigners have a total shareholding of 68.3 per cent of the total 19.6 million shares issued. They hold the shares through Bordure Ltd and Lintak Investment Ltd, with 35.1 and 33.2 per cent shareholding, respectively. Britain's Williamson family has a controlling majority shareholding in both Williamson Tea and Kapchorua Tea companies. In Williamson Tea, it holds 67.2 per cent of the total 8.8 million shares issued through their company, Ngong Tea Holding PLC. In Kapchorua tea, they hold 40 per cent of the 3.9 million shares issued. Sasini Tea and Coffee Ltd is 87.3 per cent owned by business magnate Naushad Merali, a Kenyan. Merali's companies hold his shares in these businesses: Legend Investments Ltd (51.7 per cent), East African Batteries (18.7 per cent), Yana Towers (15.9 per cent) and Swan Estates (1.04 per cent). The reinvigorated tourism sector, which earned Sh42 billion last year, is also foreign-owned. And just as the Sh43.5 billion earnings from tea sector ended up in foreign pockets, so did the Sh42 billion that came from tourism. Tourism earnings went into three directions: Hotels, airlines, and travel/booking agents, in that order. Of Kenya's 290,000-plus tourist hotel bed spaces, foreign hoteliers own 74.3 per cent of it. Tour flights to Kenya are entirely in the hands of foreign airlines. It is all the more foreign-dominated in the traditional tourist peak periods of Easter and Christmas, when there are no scheduled flights to Kenya's tourist hub of Mombasa. During the two seasons, tourists arrive in Mombasa in chartered jets arranged by European tour operators. A tea-picker at work. Foreign companies stationed in European and American capitals also entirely control hotel bookings and transfers. Where internal travel is concerned, foreigners too, dominate by owning 7 of the 11 leading local tour travel firms. At the end of the day, tourism in Kenya remains a foreigners' enclave with indigenous Kenyans left to scratch the surface on petty trades like selling curios and prostitution. After years of lobbying, last year the European Union set aside Sh250 million to economically empower indigenous Kenyans to get a fair share of the lucrative industry. Seven projects were targeted to tilt the balance in a programme called Tourism Diversification and Empowerment Project. But a spokesman at the Nairobi EU office said the money is yet to be released as project proposals submitted are still under evaluation. The only hotel chain listed on the Nairobi Stock Exchange is the TPS Serena. The Aga Khan Fund for Economic Development holds the company's majority shareholding through its company, TPS Holdings Limited. Horticulture, which earned Kenya Sh28.2 billion last year, is the country's third largest foreign exchange earner. It, too, is a foreigners' affair. Indigenous Kenyans mainly come in as casual labourers on the flower farms. Of the 44 certified companies dealing with horticulture products, 26 are foreign-owned. But an even bigger irony is that the leading 10 players in the industry � all foreign-owned � bag 83 per cent of the total income from the sector. Flower farming (floriculture) is the key plank in Kenya's agriculture sector. Seventy six per cent of Kenya's total flower production is concentrated in foreign-owned flowers farms around the Naivasha area. The big three are Homegrown, Sulmac and Oserian. Late last year, Kenya overtook Israel and Columbia as leading exporters of cut flowers. But you would not know that from the world's leading flower auctions in Amsterdam and London. Why? Foreign flower exporters in Kenya have registered their companies abroad � mainly in Amsterdam � and sell flowers they have grown in Kenya under a foreign label. In that case, while flowers from a local company are sold in Amsterdam as flowers from Kenya, Dutch companies growing their flowers in Naivasha sell theirs as flowers from Holland. The consequence of it is that flowers owned by Dutch companies receive preferential treatment at the auction, including exemption from the strict EU-imposed export rules. Flower auctions in Amsterdam and London account for 65 and 25 per cent of Kenya flower sales respectively. Of the approximate 60,000 tonnes of flowers exported from Kenya last year, 37,000 tonnes were sold in Amsterdam and London auctions as flowers from Holland. The statistics can make it look like the entire flower industry in Kenya is one big conspiracy against indigenous people. Foreign air charters, the only ones used in flower transport, charge the highest rates in Nairobi. Freight charges on flowers from Kenya are twice those in the capitals of Kenya's nearest competitors Israel, Columbia and Costa Rica. There are also 40 to 45 per cent higher than in Egypt and South Africa, Kenya's two biggest competitors on the continent. At $400 a day, inspection and storage charges at Jomo Kenyatta International Airport are the highest in the world. So is the freight charge of $1.85-$2.2 per stem. Flowers sold in Kenya's name are inspected stem by stem at the JKIA at the cost of 12 Euro cents a stem. Those grown in Kenya but marketed by overseas-accredited companies are only inspected in bulk. On average, it costs upwards of $1 million to set up a typical flower farm on a half acre spread , which in turn brings in a $50,000 a year. Kenya's fourth leading export earner, coffee, is equally depressing on the ownership scale. The majority of small-scale coffee growers in Kenya sell coffee raw from the farm, earning less than 10 per cent of what the finished end product earns in foreign markets and in a foreign label. Though touted as an agricultural country, the other large-scale agricultural activities in Kenya are also foreign-owned. Rea-Vipingo Plantations, which deals mainly in sisal and dairy farming is 77 per cent owned by the Robinson family of England. They hold the shares through REA Holdings PLC, Unibuckle Holdings Ltd and REA Trading Ltd. Del Monte, world famous for pineapple products, is entirely a French affair and sells its products with the label "Made-in-France" . The question of who owns Kenya's wealth sticks out like a sore thumb in the banking sector. The leading two banks with a combined market share of 71.4 per cent are Barclays Bank of Kenya and the Standard Chartered. They are foreign-owned. Barclays Bank plc of London owns 68 per cent stake in Barclays Bank of Kenya. Standard Bank Africa, a London outfit, in turn owns 81 per cent shareholding in Standard Chartered Bank. To avoid domination by foreign banks, Nigeria and South Africa enacted laws on percentages of shareholding a foreign bank could own. Foreign ownership is also the same cord that runs through key blue chip companies listed on the Nairobi Stock Exchange. At the East African Breweries, British-owned Guinness plc holds 63.5 per cent of the total equity, leaving Kenyans to scramble for the rest. Guinness shares are held in the names of Diageo Kenya Ltd and Diageo Netherlands B.V. In the Nation Media Group, the Aga Khan holds 28.2 million shares of the 35.6 million shares issued. The Aga Khan's shares are held in the names of the Aga Khan Fund for Economic Development and Amin Nanji Juma. In Kenya Airways, Dutch company, KLM, holds 40.6 per cent equity. In Total Kenya Ltd, French companies Total Outre-mer and Elf Oil Kenya Ltd, own 77 per cent of the total shareholding, while in BAT Kenya Ltd, Molensteegh Investment BV of London, holds 68 per cent of the total shareholding. The question of who owns Kenya's wealth generated a national debate in 1968 when the National Council of Churches of Kenya published a paper entitled: "Who Owns Kenya's Industry?" In the paper, the late Anglican Bishop, the Rev Henry Okullu, regretted that five years into independence, "the compass needle had not moved in the direction of indigenous ownership of Kenya's wealth." Thirty-seven years later, the Rev Okullu would turn in his grave to note that the needle has drifted even further away. __._,_.___ Recent Activity 1 New Members 1 New FilesVisit Your Group Yahoo! 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Although in telcom sector the law requiores local partnership, what the research is telling us is not a problem but an opportunity that we must take advantage of. The Tea estates referred to here have changed hands several times. It is therefore imperative that when they float them, we shall mobilize resources to buy them out. It is not enough to complain and leave the issue to die. There is need to educate our people that in a capitalist economy, there are exit routs to pride ourselves with ownweship of our properties. Some advamced countries own far less than 31 percent of their assets. We are fortunate that the investment bug has hit Kenya if Safaricom IPO is anything to go by. Unless we want to radically change our economic orientation with respect to ownership, which I know it is not possible, there is nothing to fuss about. Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping. Ndemo Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:05:27 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: Kazi Afrika<kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [kictanet] [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of Kenyan Wealth Owned by Foreigners _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke
"...Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping." Mmmhhh makes me wonder about this Grand Regency thing. And many other things. --- On Sun, 6/22/08, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "Kazi Afrika" <kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 11:01 AM Although in telcom sector the law requiores local partnership, what the research is telling us is not a problem but an opportunity that we must take advantage of. The Tea estates referred to here have changed hands several times. It is therefore imperative that when they float them, we shall mobilize resources to buy them out. It is not enough to complain and leave the issue to die. There is need to educate our people that in a capitalist economy, there are exit routs to pride ourselves with ownweship of our properties. Some advamced countries own far less than 31 percent of their assets. We are fortunate that the investment bug has hit Kenya if Safaricom IPO is anything to go by. Unless we want to radically change our economic orientation with respect to ownership, which I know it is not possible, there is nothing to fuss about. Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping. Ndemo Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:05:27 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: Kazi Afrika<kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [kictanet] [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of Kenyan Wealth Owned by Foreigners _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kiriinya2000%40yahoo.co...
I hope PS Ndemo is/has been watching the proceedings in Parliament (re Hon. Kimunya Censor Debate re Grand Regency, Safaricom IPO, Telkom Kenya, etc!!!). Shem --- On Sun, 6/29/08, wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> wrote: From: wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: "Shem Ochuodho" <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 8:30 AM "...Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping." Mmmhhh makes me wonder about this Grand Regency thing. And many other things. --- On Sun, 6/22/08, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "Kazi Afrika" <kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 11:01 AM Although in telcom sector the law requiores local partnership, what the research is telling us is not a problem but an opportunity that we must take advantage of. The Tea estates referred to here have changed hands several times. It is therefore imperative that when they float them, we shall mobilize resources to buy them out. It is not enough to complain and leave the issue to die. There is need to educate our people that in a capitalist economy, there are exit routs to pride ourselves with ownweship of our properties. Some advamced countries own far less than 31 percent of their assets. We are fortunate that the investment bug has hit Kenya if Safaricom IPO is anything to go by. Unless we want to radically change our economic orientation with respect to ownership, which I know it is not possible, there is nothing to fuss about. Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping. Ndemo Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:05:27 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: Kazi Afrika<kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [kictanet] [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of Kenyan Wealth Owned by Foreigners _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kiriinya2000%40yahoo.co... _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: shemochuodho@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/shemochuodho%40yahoo.co...
I watched and what became abundantly clear is that today Parliament conducted a witchhunt. With regards to the various recent disposals I think anyone who has been watching closely has seen that efficient options in due process was followed. I must actually venture to congratulate the government at the speed with which they have been able to process these deals. Previous govts have failed miserably in offloading some of these behemoths. Whether Kimunya is a witch or not - time will tell - unfortunately most 'witches' have been burnt alive by the time the truth that they are innocent comes out .... c'est la vie B On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 6:30 PM, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
I hope PS Ndemo is/has been watching the proceedings in Parliament (re Hon. Kimunya Censor Debate re Grand Regency, Safaricom IPO, Telkom Kenya, etc!!!).
Shem
--- On *Sun, 6/29/08, wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com>* wrote:
From: wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: "Shem Ochuodho" <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 8:30 AM
"...Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping."
Mmmhhh makes me wonder about this Grand Regency thing. And many other things.
--- On *Sun, 6/22/08, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke>* wrote:
From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "Kazi Afrika" <kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 11:01 AM
Although in telcom sector the law requiores local partnership, what the research is telling us is not a problem but an opportunity that we must take advantage of. The Tea estates referred to here have changed hands several times. It is therefore imperative that when they float them, we shall mobilize resources to buy them out.
It is not enough to complain and leave the issue to die. There is need to educate our people that in a capitalist economy, there are exit routs to pride ourselves with ownweship of our properties. Some advamced countries own far less than 31 percent of their assets.
We are fortunate that the investment bug has hit Kenya if Safaricom IPO is anything to go by. Unless we want to radically change our economic orientation with respect to ownership, which I know it is not possible, there is nothing to fuss about.
Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping.
Ndemo
Sent from my BlackBerry(R)
-----Original Message----- From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:05:27 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: Kazi Afrika<kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [kictanet] [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of Kenyan Wealth Owned by Foreigners
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-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
Did the pipeline matter end to cast the first stone? --- On Wed, 7/2/08, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 8:30 AM I hope PS Ndemo is/has been watching the proceedings in Parliament (re Hon. Kimunya Censor Debate re Grand Regency, Safaricom IPO, Telkom Kenya, etc!!!).
Shem
--- On Sun, 6/29/08, wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: "Shem Ochuodho" <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 8:30 AM
"...Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping."
Mmmhhh makes me wonder about this Grand Regency thing. And many other things.
--- On Sun, 6/22/08, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "Kazi Afrika" <kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 11:01 AM
Although in telcom sector the law requiores local partnership, what the research is telling us is not a problem but an opportunity that we must take advantage of. The Tea estates referred to here have changed hands several times. It is therefore imperative that when they float them, we shall mobilize resources to buy them out.
It is not enough to complain and leave the issue to die. There is need to educate our people that in a capitalist economy, there are exit routs to pride ourselves with ownweship of our properties. Some advamced countries own far less than 31 percent of their assets.
We are fortunate that the investment bug has hit Kenya if Safaricom IPO is anything to go by. Unless we want to radically change our economic orientation with respect to ownership, which I know it is not possible, there is nothing to fuss about.
Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping.
Ndemo
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:05:27 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: Kazi Afrika<kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [kictanet] [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of Kenyan Wealth Owned by Foreigners
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And the Rwanda thing,,,, On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 12:58 AM, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
Did the pipeline matter end to cast the first stone?
--- On Wed, 7/2/08, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 8:30 AM I hope PS Ndemo is/has been watching the proceedings in Parliament (re Hon. Kimunya Censor Debate re Grand Regency, Safaricom IPO, Telkom Kenya, etc!!!).
Shem
--- On Sun, 6/29/08, wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: "Shem Ochuodho" <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 8:30 AM
"...Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping."
Mmmhhh makes me wonder about this Grand Regency thing. And many other things.
--- On Sun, 6/22/08, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "Kazi Afrika" <kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 11:01 AM
Although in telcom sector the law requiores local partnership, what the research is telling us is not a problem but an opportunity that we must take advantage of. The Tea estates referred to here have changed hands several times. It is therefore imperative that when they float them, we shall mobilize resources to buy them out.
It is not enough to complain and leave the issue to die. There is need to educate our people that in a capitalist economy, there are exit routs to pride ourselves with ownweship of our properties. Some advamced countries own far less than 31 percent of their assets.
We are fortunate that the investment bug has hit Kenya if Safaricom IPO is anything to go by. Unless we want to radically change our economic orientation with respect to ownership, which I know it is not possible, there is nothing to fuss about.
Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping.
Ndemo
Sent from my BlackBerry(R)
-----Original Message----- From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:05:27 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: Kazi Afrika<kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [kictanet] [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of Kenyan Wealth Owned by Foreigners
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On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:29 AM, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
And the Rwanda thing,,,,
As earlier suggested by one member, we may be forced into emergency moderation if this continues. Let us focus on what this list is for and let those responsible for those other things handle them. We are not into the mudslinging business, I believe. ./Lists Admin -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post
I think the article in the Business Daily today (pg 10-11) makes a lot of sense. The valuations for Grand Regency that are being bandied about by the politicos are completely off. Considering that the the Lonrho Group of hotels (5 different distinct units) - consisting of The Norfolk, Mt Kenya Safari Club, The Ark, Aberdare Country Club and Mara Safari Club - we *all* sold for a total of Kshs. 2billion. Getting 3.1 billion (or 2.9B after forex issues) is quite a steal for Grand Regency. We are clearly witnessing a witchhunt over here .... nevertheless with great power comes great responsibility.... time will tell B On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
Did the pipeline matter end to cast the first stone?
--- On Wed, 7/2/08, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 8:30 AM I hope PS Ndemo is/has been watching the proceedings in Parliament (re Hon. Kimunya Censor Debate re Grand Regency, Safaricom IPO, Telkom Kenya, etc!!!).
Shem
--- On Sun, 6/29/08, wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: "Shem Ochuodho" <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 8:30 AM
"...Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping."
Mmmhhh makes me wonder about this Grand Regency thing. And many other things.
--- On Sun, 6/22/08, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "Kazi Afrika" <kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 11:01 AM
Although in telcom sector the law requiores local partnership, what the research is telling us is not a problem but an opportunity that we must take advantage of. The Tea estates referred to here have changed hands several times. It is therefore imperative that when they float them, we shall mobilize resources to buy them out.
It is not enough to complain and leave the issue to die. There is need to educate our people that in a capitalist economy, there are exit routs to pride ourselves with ownweship of our properties. Some advamced countries own far less than 31 percent of their assets.
We are fortunate that the investment bug has hit Kenya if Safaricom IPO is anything to go by. Unless we want to radically change our economic orientation with respect to ownership, which I know it is not possible, there is nothing to fuss about.
Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping.
Ndemo
Sent from my BlackBerry(R)
-----Original Message----- From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:05:27 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: Kazi Afrika<kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [kictanet] [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of Kenyan Wealth Owned by Foreigners
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And more attacks levelled not only against Kimunya but now Dr. Ndemo?... it seems like the former government (or is it members of the government and institutions) are being targeted for vituperative pronouncements. And I agree it is absurd and unfortunate and in the long run, the victims may be burnt alive but in the end as in so many other orchestrated witch hunts the world over ( remember US Joe McCarthy's anti communism hysteria dubbed McCarthyism) the witches and motives are also always finally exposed. We seem to be going back to the culture of suspicion, fear, and revenge with all the questionable methods and rather reckless talk, and as a result we are making personalities the issue rather than the cause. We seem to have put hope, courage, and dialogue in the back burner. Thank you Walu for reminding us why we started this Multi stakeholder list 3 years ago. Let us use it for the purpose it was created.....towards universal affordable access to ICTs. best alice p.s views above are personal. Not to be associated with any of the institutions I am affiliated with. ---------------------------- Brian Longwe wrote:
I think the article in the Business Daily today (pg 10-11) makes a lot of sense. The valuations for Grand Regency that are being bandied about by the politicos are completely off.
Considering that the the Lonrho Group of hotels (5 different distinct units) - consisting of The Norfolk, Mt Kenya Safari Club, The Ark, Aberdare Country Club and Mara Safari Club - we *all* sold for a total of Kshs. 2billion. Getting 3.1 billion (or 2.9B after forex issues) is quite a steal for Grand Regency.
We are clearly witnessing a witchhunt over here .... nevertheless with great power comes great responsibility.... time will tell
B
I cannot agree with you any less. No one has talked of de-registering the professionals who did the valuation for CBK! I think the politicians, just like some others, are attaching value to the big name called 'Grand Regency' as opposed to the business. Does anyone know of established systems that can be employed in valuations? From: kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 03 July 2008 09:10 To: skisonzo@gmail.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners I think the article in the Business Daily today (pg 10-11) makes a lot of sense. The valuations for Grand Regency that are being bandied about by the politicos are completely off. Considering that the the Lonrho Group of hotels (5 different distinct units) - consisting of The Norfolk, Mt Kenya Safari Club, The Ark, Aberdare Country Club and Mara Safari Club - we *all* sold for a total of Kshs. 2billion. Getting 3.1 billion (or 2.9B after forex issues) is quite a steal for Grand Regency. We are clearly witnessing a witchhunt over here .... nevertheless with great power comes great responsibility.... time will tell B On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote: Did the pipeline matter end to cast the first stone? --- On Wed, 7/2/08, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com
Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 8:30 AM
I hope PS Ndemo is/has been watching the proceedings in Parliament (re Hon. Kimunya Censor Debate re Grand Regency, Safaricom IPO, Telkom Kenya, etc!!!).
Shem
--- On Sun, 6/29/08, wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: "Shem Ochuodho" <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 8:30 AM
"...Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping."
Mmmhhh makes me wonder about this Grand Regency thing. And many other things.
--- On Sun, 6/22/08, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "Kazi Afrika" <kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 11:01 AM
Although in telcom sector the law requiores local partnership, what the research is telling us is not a problem but an opportunity that we must take advantage of. The Tea estates referred to here have changed hands several times. It is therefore imperative that when they float them, we shall mobilize resources to buy them out.
It is not enough to complain and leave the issue to die. There is need to educate our people that in a capitalist economy, there are exit routs to pride ourselves with ownweship of our properties. Some advamced countries own far less than 31 percent of their assets.
We are fortunate that the investment bug has hit Kenya if Safaricom IPO is anything to go by. Unless we want to radically change our economic orientation with respect to ownership, which I know it is not possible, there is nothing to fuss about.
Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping.
Ndemo
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:05:27 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: Kazi Afrika<kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [kictanet] [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of Kenyan Wealth Owned by Foreigners
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http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alex.gakuru%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com -- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
Gakuru, I took the State to court 4 years ago; the matter has never been heard. Unfortunately, being in court, it even can't be discussed openly. They control the courts. If there is anything more you know than I do, I would like to hear it. So/And that would be a wrong excuse not to ask queries. Shem --- On Thu, 7/3/08, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: shemochuodho@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 12:58 AM Did the pipeline matter end to cast the first stone? --- On Wed, 7/2/08, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 8:30 AM I hope PS Ndemo is/has been watching the proceedings in Parliament (re Hon. Kimunya Censor Debate re Grand Regency, Safaricom IPO, Telkom Kenya, etc!!!).
Shem
--- On Sun, 6/29/08, wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: "Shem Ochuodho" <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 8:30 AM
"...Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping."
Mmmhhh makes me wonder about this Grand Regency thing. And many other things.
--- On Sun, 6/22/08, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "Kazi Afrika" <kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 11:01 AM
Although in telcom sector the law requiores local partnership, what the research is telling us is not a problem but an opportunity that we must take advantage of. The Tea estates referred to here have changed hands several times. It is therefore imperative that when they float them, we shall mobilize resources to buy them out.
It is not enough to complain and leave the issue to die. There is need to educate our people that in a capitalist economy, there are exit routs to pride ourselves with ownweship of our properties. Some advamced countries own far less than 31 percent of their assets.
We are fortunate that the investment bug has hit Kenya if Safaricom IPO is anything to go by. Unless we want to radically change our economic orientation with respect to ownership, which I know it is not possible, there is nothing to fuss about.
Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping.
Ndemo
Shem, Alex et al, Am not sure if this is the right forum to discuss or speculate on who is the bigger thief within the ICT industry. And if someone wishes to go in the direction, they must do so on conclusive evidence or at least try to find a way to tie (disguise?) that discussion towards ICT Policies - e.g. what ICT Policies need to be in place to pre-empt such recurrence. If we dont stick to these guidelines, I foresee a lot of members un-subscribing...starting with me. walu. By the Way: I do love juicy stories, I just dont think that this is the space for them. --- On Thu, 7/3/08, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "New Vision List" <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 10:41 AM Gakuru,
I took the State to court 4 years ago; the matter has never been heard. Unfortunately, being in court, it even can't be discussed openly. They control the courts. If there is anything more you know than I do, I would like to hear it. So/And that would be a wrong excuse not to ask queries.
Shem
--- On Thu, 7/3/08, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: shemochuodho@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 12:58 AM
Did the pipeline matter end to cast the first stone?
--- On Wed, 7/2/08, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 8:30 AM I hope PS Ndemo is/has been watching the proceedings in Parliament (re Hon. Kimunya Censor Debate re Grand Regency, Safaricom IPO, Telkom Kenya, etc!!!).
Shem
--- On Sun, 6/29/08, wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: "Shem Ochuodho" <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 8:30 AM
"...Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping."
Mmmhhh makes me wonder about this Grand Regency thing. And many other things.
--- On Sun, 6/22/08, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "Kazi Afrika" <kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 11:01 AM
Although in telcom sector the law requiores local partnership, what the research is telling us is not a problem but an opportunity that we must take advantage of. The Tea estates referred to here have changed hands several times. It is therefore imperative that when they float them, we shall mobilize resources to buy them out.
It is not enough to complain and leave the issue to die. There is need to educate our people that in a capitalist economy, there are exit routs to pride ourselves with ownweship of our properties. Some advamced countries own far less than 31 percent of their assets.
We are fortunate that the investment bug has hit Kenya if Safaricom IPO is anything to go by. Unless we want to radically change our economic orientation with respect to ownership, which I know it is not possible, there is nothing to fuss about.
Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping.
Ndemo _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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Thank you, John. I too wondered what the connection was. Sorry, if that went off-line. My premise has all along been that: there needs to be fairness, transparency and professionalism in the sector; that there is emerging capacity/talent that needs to be nurtured and harnessed; and that the local industry needs to be protected. I'll for sure stick to that train of discourse. Rgrds, Shem --- On Thu, 7/3/08, John Walubengo <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: From: John Walubengo <jwalu@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Lets stick to the ICT Policy Agenda To: shemochuodho@yahoo.com Cc: "New Vision List" <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 3:09 AM Shem, Alex et al, Am not sure if this is the right forum to discuss or speculate on who is the bigger thief within the ICT industry. And if someone wishes to go in the direction, they must do so on conclusive evidence or at least try to find a way to tie (disguise?) that discussion towards ICT Policies - e.g. what ICT Policies need to be in place to pre-empt such recurrence. If we dont stick to these guidelines, I foresee a lot of members un-subscribing...starting with me. walu. By the Way: I do love juicy stories, I just dont think that this is the space for them.
List policy certainly now re-railed. We do not wish anyone to unsubscribe. Wish you also moderatorly issue the command chmod "lurk" to 777 for another;) Chao, --- On Thu, 7/3/08, John Walubengo <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: John Walubengo <jwalu@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Lets stick to the ICT Policy Agenda To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Cc: "New Vision List" <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 12:09 AM Shem, Alex et al,
Am not sure if this is the right forum to discuss or speculate on who is the bigger thief within the ICT industry. And if someone wishes to go in the direction, they must do so on conclusive evidence or at least try to find a way to tie (disguise?) that discussion towards ICT Policies - e.g. what ICT Policies need to be in place to pre-empt such recurrence.
If we dont stick to these guidelines, I foresee a lot of members un-subscribing...starting with me.
walu. By the Way: I do love juicy stories, I just dont think that this is the space for them.
--- On Thu, 7/3/08, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "New Vision List" <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 10:41 AM Gakuru,
I took the State to court 4 years ago; the matter has never been heard. Unfortunately, being in court, it even can't be discussed openly. They control the courts. If there is anything more you know than I do, I would like to hear it. So/And that would be a wrong excuse not to ask queries.
Shem
--- On Thu, 7/3/08, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: shemochuodho@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 12:58 AM
Did the pipeline matter end to cast the first stone?
--- On Wed, 7/2/08, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 8:30 AM I hope PS Ndemo is/has been watching the proceedings in Parliament (re Hon. Kimunya Censor Debate re Grand Regency, Safaricom IPO, Telkom Kenya, etc!!!).
Shem
--- On Sun, 6/29/08, wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: "Shem Ochuodho" <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 8:30 AM
"...Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping."
Mmmhhh makes me wonder about this Grand Regency thing. And many other things.
--- On Sun, 6/22/08, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "Kazi Afrika" <kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 11:01 AM
Although in telcom sector the law requiores local partnership, what the research is telling us is not a problem but an opportunity that we must take advantage of. The Tea estates referred to here have changed hands several times. It is therefore imperative that when they float them, we shall mobilize resources to buy them out.
It is not enough to complain and leave the issue to die. There is need to educate our people that in a capitalist economy, there are exit routs to pride ourselves with ownweship of our properties. Some advamced countries own far less than 31 percent of their assets.
We are fortunate that the investment bug has hit Kenya if Safaricom IPO is anything to go by. Unless we want to radically change our economic orientation with respect to ownership, which I know it is not possible, there is nothing to fuss about.
Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping.
Ndemo _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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A cross post. Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote: List policy certainly now re-railed. We do not wish anyone to unsubscribe. Wish you also moderatorly issue the command chmod "lurk" to 777 for another;) Chao, --- On Thu, 7/3/08, John Walubengo wrote:
From: John Walubengo Subject: Re: [kictanet] Lets stick to the ICT Policy Agenda To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Cc: "New Vision List" , "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 12:09 AM Shem, Alex et al,
Am not sure if this is the right forum to discuss or speculate on who is the bigger thief within the ICT industry. And if someone wishes to go in the direction, they must do so on conclusive evidence or at least try to find a way to tie (disguise?) that discussion towards ICT Policies - e.g. what ICT Policies need to be in place to pre-empt such recurrence.
If we dont stick to these guidelines, I foresee a lot of members un-subscribing...starting with me.
walu. By the Way: I do love juicy stories, I just dont think that this is the space for them.
--- On Thu, 7/3/08, Shem Ochuodho wrote:
From: Shem Ochuodho Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "New Vision List" , "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 10:41 AM Gakuru,
I took the State to court 4 years ago; the matter has never been heard. Unfortunately, being in court, it even can't be discussed openly. They control the courts. If there is anything more you know than I do, I would like to hear it. So/And that would be a wrong excuse not to ask queries.
Shem
--- On Thu, 7/3/08, Alex Gakuru wrote:
From: Alex Gakuru Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: shemochuodho@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 12:58 AM
Did the pipeline matter end to cast the first stone?
--- On Wed, 7/2/08, Shem Ochuodho wrote:
From: Shem Ochuodho
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 8:30 AM I hope PS Ndemo is/has been watching the proceedings in Parliament (re Hon. Kimunya Censor Debate re Grand Regency, Safaricom IPO, Telkom Kenya, etc!!!).
Shem
--- On Sun, 6/29/08, wesley kiriinya wrote:
From: wesley kiriinya
Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: "Shem Ochuodho"
Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 8:30 AM
"...Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping."
Mmmhhh makes me wonder about this Grand Regency thing. And many other things.
--- On Sun, 6/22/08, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
From: bitange@jambo.co.ke
Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "Kazi Afrika" , "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 11:01 AM
Although in telcom sector the law requiores local partnership, what the research is telling us is not a problem but an opportunity that we must take advantage of. The Tea estates referred to here have changed hands several times. It is therefore imperative that when they float them, we shall mobilize resources to buy them out.
It is not enough to complain and leave the issue to die. There is need to educate our people that in a capitalist economy, there are exit routs to pride ourselves with ownweship of our properties. Some advamced countries own far less than 31 percent of their assets.
We are fortunate that the investment bug has hit Kenya if Safaricom IPO is anything to go by. Unless we want to radically change our economic orientation with respect to ownership, which I know it is not possible, there is nothing to fuss about.
Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping.
Ndemo _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: mleonardo@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mleonardo%40yahoo.com
From: John Walubengo Subject: Re: [kictanet] Lets stick to the ICT Policy Agenda To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Cc: "New Vision List" , "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 12:09 AM Shem, Alex et al,
Am not sure if this is the right forum to discuss or speculate on who is the bigger thief within the ICT industry. And if someone wishes to go in the
Hi All, Came across this interesting piece and thought members could have a look. http://politics.nationmedia.com/Blog/default.asp?Display=294 Regards, Jotham --- On Fri, 7/4/08, Leonard Mware <mleonardo@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Leonard Mware <mleonardo@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Lets stick to the ICT Policy Agenda To: jokilimo@yahoo.com Cc: "New Vision List" <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 5:33 AM A cross post. Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote: List policy certainly now re-railed. We do not wish anyone to unsubscribe. Wish you also moderatorly issue the command chmod "lurk" to 777 for another;) Chao, --- On Thu, 7/3/08, John Walubengo wrote: direction,
they must do so on conclusive evidence or at least try to find a way to tie (disguise?) that discussion towards ICT Policies - e.g. what ICT Policies need to be in place to pre-empt such recurrence.
If we dont stick to these guidelines, I foresee a lot of members un-subscribing...starting with me.
walu. By the Way: I do love juicy stories, I just dont think that this is the space for them.
--- On Thu, 7/3/08, Shem Ochuodho wrote:
From: Shem Ochuodho Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "New Vision List" , "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 10:41 AM Gakuru,
I took the State to court 4 years ago; the matter has never been heard. Unfortunately, being in court, it even can't be discussed openly. They control the courts. If there is anything more you know than I do, I would like to hear it. So/And that would be a wrong excuse not to ask queries.
Shem
--- On Thu, 7/3/08, Alex Gakuru wrote:
From: Alex Gakuru Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: shemochuodho@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 12:58 AM
Did the pipeline matter end to cast the first stone?
--- On Wed, 7/2/08, Shem Ochuodho wrote:
From: Shem Ochuodho
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 8:30 AM I hope PS Ndemo is/has been watching the proceedings in Parliament (re Hon. Kimunya Censor Debate re Grand Regency, Safaricom IPO, Telkom Kenya, etc!!!).
Shem
--- On Sun, 6/29/08, wesley kiriinya wrote:
From: wesley kiriinya
Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: "Shem Ochuodho"
Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 8:30 AM
"...Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping."
Mmmhhh makes me wonder about this Grand Regency thing.
And
many other things.
--- On Sun, 6/22/08, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
From: bitange@jambo.co.ke
Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "Kazi Afrika" , "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 11:01 AM
Although in telcom sector the law requiores local partnership, what the research is telling us is not a problem but an opportunity that we
of. The Tea estates referred to here have changed hands several times. It is therefore imperative that when they float them, we shall mobilize resources to buy them out.
It is not enough to complain and leave the issue to die. There is need to educate our people that in a capitalist economy,
must take advantage there are
exit routs to pride ourselves with ownweship of our properties. Some advamced countries own far less than 31 percent of their assets.
We are fortunate that the investment bug has hit Kenya if Safaricom IPO is
economic orientation with respect to ownership, which I know it is not
there is nothing to fuss about.
Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what
anything to go by. Unless we want to radically change our possible, they own.
They simply caught us napping.
Ndemo _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alex.gakuru%40yahoo.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: mleonardo@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mleonardo%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: jokilimo@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jokilimo%40yahoo.com
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
Gakuru,
I took the State to court 4 years ago; the matter has never been heard. Unfortunately, being in court, it even can't be discussed openly. They control the courts. If there is anything more you know than I do, I would like to hear it. So/And that would be a wrong excuse not to ask queries.
Shem
--- On Thu, 7/3/08, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: shemochuodho@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 12:58 AM
Did the pipeline matter end to cast the first stone?
Hello Shem & Alex, The direction the two of you are taking is "off topic" for this list. It would be wise to either cease this discussion now, or take your exchanges off list, please! I also don't understand why this is made to spill to "New Vision List <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>" as I've seen that on the headers CC. Let's stick to the agendas for which this list was conceived. ./Lists Admin -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post
Members: It seems to me that this particular discussion is becoming political. If it is, I concur with Washington that the participants should look for another venue. Joe On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 3:23 AM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
Gakuru,
I took the State to court 4 years ago; the matter has never been heard. Unfortunately, being in court, it even can't be discussed openly. They control the courts. If there is anything more you know than I do, I would like to hear it. So/And that would be a wrong excuse not to ask queries.
Shem
--- On Thu, 7/3/08, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: shemochuodho@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 12:58 AM
Did the pipeline matter end to cast the first stone?
Hello Shem & Alex,
The direction the two of you are taking is "off topic" for this list. It would be wise to either cease this discussion now, or take your exchanges off list, please! I also don't understand why this is made to spill to "New Vision List <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>" as I've seen that on the headers CC.
Let's stick to the agendas for which this list was conceived.
./Lists Admin
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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-- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com
Well... I joined this group recently... and while I realise it is a professional forum, I do not see why members cannot question the integrity of others - that's democracy. I accuse, I ought to be ready to be accused! I am not sure any professional group can ignore matters of national importance for the fact that they are kind of unrelated to the profession... From: kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 04 July 2008 19:24 To: skisonzo@gmail.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners Members: It seems to me that this particular discussion is becoming political. If it is, I concur with Washington that the participants should look for another venue. Joe On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 3:23 AM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
Gakuru,
I took the State to court 4 years ago; the matter has never been heard. Unfortunately, being in court, it even can't be discussed openly. They control the courts. If there is anything more you know than I do, I would like to hear it. So/And that would be a wrong excuse not to ask queries.
Shem
--- On Thu, 7/3/08, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: shemochuodho@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 12:58 AM
Did the pipeline matter end to cast the first stone?
Hello Shem & Alex, The direction the two of you are taking is "off topic" for this list. It would be wise to either cease this discussion now, or take your exchanges off list, please! I also don't understand why this is made to spill to "New Vision List <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>" as I've seen that on the headers CC. Let's stick to the agendas for which this list was conceived. ./Lists Admin -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: jmanthi@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmail.com -- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com
Hi Sylvester/and other listmembers, While I appreciate your point of view it is also important for us to ensure that we maintain an atmosphere within the list that 'breeds' dialogue - and encourages healthy debate while discouraging personal/personality attacks. This list is not simply there for people in ICT to blaze whenever and at whomever they want. It serves a very significant role of providing a platform that cuts across every layer of our society and allows debate/dialogue on the very issues that affect our ICT sector. This debate and dialogue will often end up in some very clear imperatives which are then taken and turned into actions - actions which affect the entire nation. KICTANET has played a very significant and key role in: - adoption/ratification of VOIP regulations - introduction of fully liberalised international data gateways - development of a 'single' ICT policy - and subsequent ratification/adoption by Cabinet - several input towards taxations issues surrounding ICTs All of the above are areas that have benefited from the civility, seriousness, focus, determination and commitment from the various stakeholders in KICTANET. It has also acted as a magnet and drawn many, both locally and from abroad who have an interest in Kenya's ICT sector. I will also add that some of those interests are not always noble and we have had cases in the past where individuals who have refused to adhere to the code and ethics of this list have had to be removed and left to find other places where they can dispense their vitriol. It is therefore very critical for us to defend and protect the integrity, freedom and openness of this list so that it can play it's part in helping KICTANET fulfil it larger role of *Action* in Kenya's ICT sector. Let us not lose focus. Regards, Brian Chairperson, KICTANET On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 10:22 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo <skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> wrote:
Well... I joined this group recently... and while I realise it is a professional forum, I do not see why members cannot question the integrity of others – that's democracy. I accuse, I ought to be ready to be accused! I am not sure any professional group can ignore matters of national importance for the fact that they are kind of unrelated to the profession...
*From:* kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto: kictanet-bounces+skisonzo <kictanet-bounces%2Bskisonzo>=gmail.com@ lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Joseph Manthi *Sent:* 04 July 2008 19:24 *To:* skisonzo@gmail.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners
Members: It seems to me that this particular discussion is becoming political. If it is, I concur with Washington that the participants should look for another venue.
Joe
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 3:23 AM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
Gakuru,
I took the State to court 4 years ago; the matter has never been heard. Unfortunately, being in court, it even can't be discussed openly. They control the courts. If there is anything more you know than I do, I would like to hear it. So/And that would be a wrong excuse not to ask queries.
Shem
--- On Thu, 7/3/08, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: shemochuodho@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 12:58 AM
Did the pipeline matter end to cast the first stone?
Hello Shem & Alex,
The direction the two of you are taking is "off topic" for this list. It would be wise to either cease this discussion now, or take your exchanges off list, please! I also don't understand why this is made to spill to "New Vision List <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>" as I've seen that on the headers CC.
Let's stick to the agendas for which this list was conceived.
./Lists Admin
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post
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Hello Brian, Thank you for the explanation. I have no further doubts that I subscribed to the right list. I was a bit confused when I recently saw a message referring to the forum as a personal outfit. To all... take that as my introduction to the group! SK From: Brian Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: 05 July 2008 10:43 To: skisonzo@securenet.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners Hi Sylvester/and other listmembers, While I appreciate your point of view it is also important for us to ensure that we maintain an atmosphere within the list that 'breeds' dialogue - and encourages healthy debate while discouraging personal/personality attacks. This list is not simply there for people in ICT to blaze whenever and at whomever they want. It serves a very significant role of providing a platform that cuts across every layer of our society and allows debate/dialogue on the very issues that affect our ICT sector. This debate and dialogue will often end up in some very clear imperatives which are then taken and turned into actions - actions which affect the entire nation. KICTANET has played a very significant and key role in: - adoption/ratification of VOIP regulations - introduction of fully liberalised international data gateways - development of a 'single' ICT policy - and subsequent ratification/adoption by Cabinet - several input towards taxations issues surrounding ICTs All of the above are areas that have benefited from the civility, seriousness, focus, determination and commitment from the various stakeholders in KICTANET. It has also acted as a magnet and drawn many, both locally and from abroad who have an interest in Kenya's ICT sector. I will also add that some of those interests are not always noble and we have had cases in the past where individuals who have refused to adhere to the code and ethics of this list have had to be removed and left to find other places where they can dispense their vitriol. It is therefore very critical for us to defend and protect the integrity, freedom and openness of this list so that it can play it's part in helping KICTANET fulfil it larger role of *Action* in Kenya's ICT sector. Let us not lose focus. Regards, Brian Chairperson, KICTANET On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 10:22 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo <skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> wrote: Well... I joined this group recently... and while I realise it is a professional forum, I do not see why members cannot question the integrity of others - that's democracy. I accuse, I ought to be ready to be accused! I am not sure any professional group can ignore matters of national importance for the fact that they are kind of unrelated to the profession... From: kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bskisonzo> =gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 04 July 2008 19:24 To: skisonzo@gmail.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners Members: It seems to me that this particular discussion is becoming political. If it is, I concur with Washington that the participants should look for another venue. Joe On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 3:23 AM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
Gakuru,
I took the State to court 4 years ago; the matter has never been heard. Unfortunately, being in court, it even can't be discussed openly. They control the courts. If there is anything more you know than I do, I would like to hear it. So/And that would be a wrong excuse not to ask queries.
Shem
--- On Thu, 7/3/08, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: shemochuodho@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 12:58 AM
Did the pipeline matter end to cast the first stone?
Hello Shem & Alex, The direction the two of you are taking is "off topic" for this list. It would be wise to either cease this discussion now, or take your exchanges off list, please! I also don't understand why this is made to spill to "New Vision List <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>" as I've seen that on the headers CC. Let's stick to the agendas for which this list was conceived. ./Lists Admin -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: jmanthi@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmail.com -- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com -- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
------ Forwarded Message From: CILS <conferences@cils2.org> Reply-To: CILS <conferences@cils2.org> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:29:24 +0200 Subject: INTERNET LAW CONFERENCE We seek speakers and panel moderators for the 3rd Symposium on The Internet: Governance and the Law. 26-27 October 2008, at Montreal, Quebec, Canada. The delegate fee is US $1,200. As a member of the faculty, you will receive a 40 per cent discount. The faculty fee thus is US $720, including one night's lodging at the Omni Mont Royale Hotel, networking lunch, opening dinner, cocktail reception, travel insurance, morning and afternoon coffee, CLE/CPD accreditation, written materials, and log-on rights to conference online materials. Sessions will be held at McGill University. Day registration fee for Monday for attendees from the Greater Montréal Area is US $155. Topics include Internet governance; cyber regulation; convergence of telecommunications, computers, and broadcast; competition; deregulation; free speech, defamation, and hate speech, privacy and security; consumer protection; cryptography; domain names; open-source issues; patents, copyright, and trade marks; cybercrime and terrorism; e-commerce; legal liability and e-transactions, property and piracy; and telemarketing fraud. Please advise me if you have interest in serving as a speaker or panel moderator. Regards, Dennis Campbell Center for International Legal Studies PO Box 19 A5033 Salzburg, Austria Austria Fax 43 662 835171 US Fax 1 509 3560077 Should you no longer wish to receive program announcements, please reply to remove@cils2.org.
Mware: All the topics are so interesting and relevant to us since our ICTs have been used to embed strange new perceptions and feelings of tribalism and violence. I hope several Kenyans will participate. Thank you so much. On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Leonard Mware <mleonardo@yahoo.com> wrote:
------ Forwarded Message From: CILS <conferences@cils2.org> Reply-To: CILS <conferences@cils2.org> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:29:24 +0200 Subject: INTERNET LAW CONFERENCE
We seek speakers and panel moderators for the 3rd Symposium on The Internet: Governance and the Law. 26-27 October 2008, at Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
The delegate fee is US $1,200. As a member of the faculty, you will receive a 40 per cent discount. The faculty fee thus is US $720, including one night's lodging at the Omni Mont Royale Hotel, networking lunch, opening dinner, cocktail reception, travel insurance, morning and afternoon coffee, CLE/CPD accreditation, written materials, and log-on rights to conference online materials. Sessions will be held at McGill University.
Day registration fee for Monday for attendees from the Greater Montréal Area is US $155.
Topics include Internet governance; cyber regulation; convergence of telecommunications, computers, and broadcast; competition; deregulation; free speech, defamation, and hate speech, privacy and security; consumer protection; cryptography; domain names; open-source issues; patents, copyright, and trade marks; cybercrime and terrorism; e-commerce; legal liability and e-transactions, property and piracy; and telemarketing fraud.
Please advise me if you have interest in serving as a speaker or panel moderator.
Regards, Dennis Campbell Center for International Legal Studies PO Box 19 A5033 Salzburg, Austria Austria Fax 43 662 835171 US Fax 1 509 3560077
Should you no longer wish to receive program announcements, please reply to remove@cils2.org.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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On that note...we have degenerated. I take the early opportunity to leave this list. -- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Apartments, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1°17'13.8" E - 36°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke --- On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
Gakuru,
I took the State to court 4 years ago; the matter has never been heard. Unfortunately, being in court, it even can't be discussed openly. They control the courts. If there is anything more you know than I do, I would like to hear it. So/And that would be a wrong excuse not to ask queries.
Shem
--- On *Thu, 7/3/08, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com>* wrote:
From: Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: shemochuodho@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 12:58 AM
Did the pipeline matter end to cast the first stone?
--- On Wed, 7/2/08, Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Shem Ochuodho <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 8:30 AM I hope PS Ndemo is/has been watching the proceedings in Parliament (re Hon. Kimunya Censor Debate re Grand Regency, Safaricom IPO, Telkom Kenya, etc!!!).
Shem
--- On Sun, 6/29/08, wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: "Shem Ochuodho" <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 8:30 AM
"...Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping."
Mmmhhh makes me wonder about this Grand Regency thing. And many other things.
--- On Sun, 6/22/08, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] {Disarmed} Re: [NewVisionKenya] Fwd: [africa-oped] Bulk of KenyanWealth Owned by Foreigners To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "Kazi Afrika" <kaziafrika@googlegroups.com>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 11:01 AM
Although in telcom sector the law requiores local partnership, what the research is telling us is not a problem but an opportunity that we must take advantage of. The Tea estates referred to here have changed hands several times. It is therefore imperative that when they float them, we shall mobilize resources to buy them out.
It is not enough to complain and leave the issue to die. There is need to educate our people that in a capitalist economy, there are exit routs to pride ourselves with ownweship of our properties. Some advamced countries own far less than 31 percent of their assets.
We are fortunate that the investment bug has hit Kenya if Safaricom IPO is anything to go by. Unless we want to radically change our economic orientation with respect to ownership, which I know it is not possible, there is nothing to fuss about.
Way forward, mobilize resources the Transcentury way and buy out all that which is owned by foreiners. They did not steal what they own. They simply caught us napping.
Ndemo
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participants (14)
-
Alex Gakuru
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alice
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Bill Kagai
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bitange@jambo.co.ke
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Brian Longwe
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Gakuru , Alex
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John Walubengo
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Joseph Manthi
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Jotham Kilimo
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Leonard Mware
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Odhiambo Washington
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Shem Ochuodho
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Sylvester Kisonzo
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wesley kiriinya