Re: [kictanet] [isoc_ke] Should Safaricom be broken up as 'recommended' by Airtel?
On 18 February 2015 at 15:22, WANGARI KABIRU via isoc <isoc@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
*"The Kenya Information and Communications Act section 84W gives the Communications Authority of Kenya powers to declare a service provider to be dominant if their market share is at least 50 per cent of the relevant gross market segment," Mr Matiang'i noted. *
Wangare, you have murdered the law, and read it out of context. "The current regulation on competition, published by the ICT ministry in 2010, equates dominance to abuse of the market. The regulator says this makes it difficult to declare a licensee dominant considering that the threshold of proof of abuse is very high." ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya "There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk on higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson
I wonder if breaking up, without sufficient safeguards against cross ownership of the business pieces will achieve intended result? Away from the issue of dominance, who has capacity and willingness to fill in the gap should there be one? @ Wangari, this is a critical sector where dominance has ripple effects even on government services. The comparison to sweets and others.... Regards, 2015-02-18 17:04 GMT+03:00 Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>:
On 18 February 2015 at 15:22, WANGARI KABIRU via isoc <isoc@lists.my.co.ke
wrote:
*"The Kenya Information and Communications Act section 84W gives the Communications Authority of Kenya powers to declare a service provider to be dominant if their market share is at least 50 per cent of the relevant gross market segment," Mr Matiang'i noted. *
Wangare, you have murdered the law, and read it out of context.
"The current regulation on competition, published by the ICT ministry in 2010, equates dominance to abuse of the market. The regulator says this makes it difficult to declare a licensee dominant considering that the threshold of proof of abuse is very high."
______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
"There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk on higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson
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@Mwendwa - u mention some 2010 regulations on competition published by the Ministry of ICT. Not seen these regulations but I would be worried that the ministry of ICT is now publishing regulation - something that is the mandate of the Regulator. Ministry should stick to policy. Either way, the Law (as in the Constitution and the Acts are superior to the Regulations and so in case of conflict I would expect the latter to override) As for breaking up Safcom, I have always proposed we should given its giant state - even the might of MTN, Equity, Airtel combined will barely scratch its dominant position. The question is not so much that they have "earned" this position through hard work and innovation, the question is about creating backup positions for ourselves as a country. Think about it, if MPESA broke down today for more than 2hrs today, we might have street riots. This is good for Safaricom but not good for Kenyan stability -unless and until we have a reliable alternative of MPESA with similar magnitude we are literally a social bomb waiting to be triggered. Indeed if I was a foreign army wishing to attack Kenya, I will not target the barracks or statehouse, I will target MPESA. Our success is has become our biggest liability and we must face that fact and begin to think around it constructively. Airtel is secondary in this conversation if you asked me. We should have had it on own volition. walu. From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] [isoc_ke] Should Safaricom be broken up as 'recommended' by Airtel? On 18 February 2015 at 15:22, WANGARI KABIRU via isoc <isoc@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: “The Kenya Information and Communications Act section 84W gives the Communications Authority of Kenya powers to declare a service provider to be dominant if their market share is at least 50 per cent of the relevant gross market segment,” Mr Matiang’i noted. Wangare, you have murdered the law, and read it out of context. "The current regulation on competition, published by the ICT ministry in 2010, equates dominance to abuse of the market. The regulator says this makes it difficult to declare a licensee dominant considering that the threshold of proof of abuse is very high." ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya "There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk on higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Walu Do you have some socialist leanings? :) There is a simple solution to dealing with the Mpesa dominance issue. Drive policy to ENFORCE interoperability. You kill that dependency very quickly. Rwanda has done it successfully. Why can't we? after all it's a matter of national security. With interoperability I can switch seamlessly within the financial sector infrastructure without worrying. The government/Airtel/Orange/Kenya Bankers then drives awareness ala Digital Migration. :) It's not rocket science and it doesn't require any breakup. :) Ali Hussein +254 770 906375 / 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad
On Feb 20, 2015, at 3:45 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Mwendwa - u mention some 2010 regulations on competition published by the Ministry of ICT. Not seen these regulations but I would be worried that the ministry of ICT is now publishing regulation - something that is the mandate of the Regulator. Ministry should stick to policy.
Either way, the Law (as in the Constitution and the Acts are superior to the Regulations and so in case of conflict I would expect the latter to override)
As for breaking up Safcom, I have always proposed we should given its giant state - even the might of MTN, Equity, Airtel combined will barely scratch its dominant position. The question is not so much that they have "earned" this position through hard work and innovation, the question is about creating backup positions for ourselves as a country.
Think about it, if MPESA broke down today for more than 2hrs today, we might have street riots. This is good for Safaricom but not good for Kenyan stability -unless and until we have a reliable alternative of MPESA with similar magnitude we are literally a social bomb waiting to be triggered. Indeed if I was a foreign army wishing to attack Kenya, I will not target the barracks or statehouse, I will target MPESA.
Our success is has become our biggest liability and we must face that fact and begin to think around it constructively. Airtel is secondary in this conversation if you asked me. We should have had it on own volition.
walu.
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] [isoc_ke] Should Safaricom be broken up as 'recommended' by Airtel?
On 18 February 2015 at 15:22, WANGARI KABIRU via isoc <isoc@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: “The Kenya Information and Communications Act section 84W gives the Communications Authority of Kenya powers to declare a service provider to be dominant if their market share is at least 50 per cent of the relevant gross market segment,” Mr Matiang’i noted.
Wangare, you have murdered the law, and read it out of context.
"The current regulation on competition, published by the ICT ministry in 2010, equates dominance to abuse of the market. The regulator says this makes it difficult to declare a licensee dominant considering that the threshold of proof of abuse is very high."
______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
"There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk on higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil#Successor_companies Not the first time something like this has been tried. The constituent companies still dominate oil. No new entrants per se. John Leger at T-Mobile figured this out http://www.cnet.com/news/t-mobile-swings-to-q4-profit-as-customer-growth-zoo... On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Walu
Do you have some socialist leanings? :)
There is a simple solution to dealing with the Mpesa dominance issue. Drive policy to ENFORCE interoperability. You kill that dependency very quickly.
Rwanda has done it successfully. Why can't we? after all it's a matter of national security.
With interoperability I can switch seamlessly within the financial sector infrastructure without worrying. The government/Airtel/Orange/Kenya Bankers then drives awareness ala Digital Migration. :)
It's not rocket science and it doesn't require any breakup. :)
*Ali Hussein*
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 20, 2015, at 3:45 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Mwendwa - u mention some 2010 regulations on competition published by the Ministry of ICT. Not seen these regulations but I would be worried that the ministry of ICT is now publishing regulation - something that is the mandate of the Regulator. Ministry should stick to policy.
Either way, the Law (as in the Constitution and the Acts are superior to the Regulations and so in case of conflict I would expect the latter to override)
As for breaking up Safcom, I have always proposed we should given its giant state - even the might of MTN, Equity, Airtel combined will barely scratch its dominant position. The question is not so much that they have "earned" this position through hard work and innovation, the question is about creating backup positions for ourselves as a country.
Think about it, if MPESA broke down today for more than 2hrs today, we might have street riots. This is good for Safaricom but not good for Kenyan stability -unless and until we have a reliable alternative of MPESA with similar magnitude we are literally a social bomb waiting to be triggered. Indeed if I was a foreign army wishing to attack Kenya, I will not target the barracks or statehouse, I will target MPESA.
Our success is has become our biggest liability and we must face that fact and begin to think around it constructively. Airtel is secondary in this conversation if you asked me. We should have had it on own volition.
walu.
------------------------------ *From:* Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *To:* jwalu@yahoo.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 18, 2015 5:04 PM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] [isoc_ke] Should Safaricom be broken up as 'recommended' by Airtel?
On 18 February 2015 at 15:22, WANGARI KABIRU via isoc <isoc@lists.my.co.ke
wrote:
*"The Kenya Information and Communications Act section 84W gives the Communications Authority of Kenya powers to declare a service provider to be dominant if their market share is at least 50 per cent of the relevant gross market segment," Mr Matiang'i noted. *
Wangare, you have murdered the law, and read it out of context.
"The current regulation on competition, published by the ICT ministry in 2010, equates dominance to abuse of the market. The regulator says this makes it difficult to declare a licensee dominant considering that the threshold of proof of abuse is very high."
______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
"There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk on higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Warm Regards, Phares Kariuki *E*: pkariuki@gmail.com | *Twitter*: kaboro | *B*: http://www.angani.co | Angani Limited
Exactly Phares. Ali Hussein +254 770 906375 / 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad
On Feb 20, 2015, at 4:47 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil#Successor_companies
Not the first time something like this has been tried. The constituent companies still dominate oil. No new entrants per se.
John Leger at T-Mobile figured this out http://www.cnet.com/news/t-mobile-swings-to-q4-profit-as-customer-growth-zoo...
On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Walu
Do you have some socialist leanings? :)
There is a simple solution to dealing with the Mpesa dominance issue. Drive policy to ENFORCE interoperability. You kill that dependency very quickly.
Rwanda has done it successfully. Why can't we? after all it's a matter of national security.
With interoperability I can switch seamlessly within the financial sector infrastructure without worrying. The government/Airtel/Orange/Kenya Bankers then drives awareness ala Digital Migration. :)
It's not rocket science and it doesn't require any breakup. :)
Ali Hussein
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 20, 2015, at 3:45 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Mwendwa - u mention some 2010 regulations on competition published by the Ministry of ICT. Not seen these regulations but I would be worried that the ministry of ICT is now publishing regulation - something that is the mandate of the Regulator. Ministry should stick to policy.
Either way, the Law (as in the Constitution and the Acts are superior to the Regulations and so in case of conflict I would expect the latter to override)
As for breaking up Safcom, I have always proposed we should given its giant state - even the might of MTN, Equity, Airtel combined will barely scratch its dominant position. The question is not so much that they have "earned" this position through hard work and innovation, the question is about creating backup positions for ourselves as a country.
Think about it, if MPESA broke down today for more than 2hrs today, we might have street riots. This is good for Safaricom but not good for Kenyan stability -unless and until we have a reliable alternative of MPESA with similar magnitude we are literally a social bomb waiting to be triggered. Indeed if I was a foreign army wishing to attack Kenya, I will not target the barracks or statehouse, I will target MPESA.
Our success is has become our biggest liability and we must face that fact and begin to think around it constructively. Airtel is secondary in this conversation if you asked me. We should have had it on own volition.
walu.
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] [isoc_ke] Should Safaricom be broken up as 'recommended' by Airtel?
On 18 February 2015 at 15:22, WANGARI KABIRU via isoc <isoc@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: “The Kenya Information and Communications Act section 84W gives the Communications Authority of Kenya powers to declare a service provider to be dominant if their market share is at least 50 per cent of the relevant gross market segment,” Mr Matiang’i noted.
Wangare, you have murdered the law, and read it out of context.
"The current regulation on competition, published by the ICT ministry in 2010, equates dominance to abuse of the market. The regulator says this makes it difficult to declare a licensee dominant considering that the threshold of proof of abuse is very high."
______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
"There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk on higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Warm Regards,
Phares Kariuki
E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | B: http://www.angani.co | Angani Limited
Phares, The difference is, they compete against each other in the market and hence push the market and innovations forward. Think of it this way, what if Telkom Kenya hadn't been broken up? There would not have been a Safaricom. IMO, Safaricom should not be curtailed, but broken into two: 1. Safaricom Telcom: Mobile Voice, Data etc Services 2. Safaricom Money: Mpesa, Mshwari etc Safaricom Money as an independent entity should then be a BFF to every Telcom local and International in Money Transfer. Following Ali's argument, this is the company to promote and it could easily be the first Kenyan Company in Fortune 100. But as long as its inside Safaricom where its used as a competetive tool against local competition, it will always remain a small operation internationally and with time it will stifle local creativity in Mobile Money. Waithaka Ngigi Alliance Technologies Nairobi, Kenya www.A1.io On 20 Feb 2015 16:49, "Phares Kariuki via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil#Successor_companies
Not the first time something like this has been tried. The constituent companies still dominate oil. No new entrants per se.
John Leger at T-Mobile figured this out http://www.cnet.com/news/t-mobile-swings-to-q4-profit-as-customer-growth-zoo...
On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Walu
Do you have some socialist leanings? :)
There is a simple solution to dealing with the Mpesa dominance issue. Drive policy to ENFORCE interoperability. You kill that dependency very quickly.
Rwanda has done it successfully. Why can't we? after all it's a matter of national security.
With interoperability I can switch seamlessly within the financial sector infrastructure without worrying. The government/Airtel/Orange/Kenya Bankers then drives awareness ala Digital Migration. :)
It's not rocket science and it doesn't require any breakup. :)
*Ali Hussein*
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 20, 2015, at 3:45 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Mwendwa - u mention some 2010 regulations on competition published by the Ministry of ICT. Not seen these regulations but I would be worried that the ministry of ICT is now publishing regulation - something that is the mandate of the Regulator. Ministry should stick to policy.
Either way, the Law (as in the Constitution and the Acts are superior to the Regulations and so in case of conflict I would expect the latter to override)
As for breaking up Safcom, I have always proposed we should given its giant state - even the might of MTN, Equity, Airtel combined will barely scratch its dominant position. The question is not so much that they have "earned" this position through hard work and innovation, the question is about creating backup positions for ourselves as a country.
Think about it, if MPESA broke down today for more than 2hrs today, we might have street riots. This is good for Safaricom but not good for Kenyan stability -unless and until we have a reliable alternative of MPESA with similar magnitude we are literally a social bomb waiting to be triggered. Indeed if I was a foreign army wishing to attack Kenya, I will not target the barracks or statehouse, I will target MPESA.
Our success is has become our biggest liability and we must face that fact and begin to think around it constructively. Airtel is secondary in this conversation if you asked me. We should have had it on own volition.
walu.
------------------------------ *From:* Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *To:* jwalu@yahoo.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 18, 2015 5:04 PM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] [isoc_ke] Should Safaricom be broken up as 'recommended' by Airtel?
On 18 February 2015 at 15:22, WANGARI KABIRU via isoc < isoc@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
*“The Kenya Information and Communications Act section 84W gives the Communications Authority of Kenya powers to declare a service provider to be dominant if their market share is at least 50 per cent of the relevant gross market segment,” Mr Matiang’i noted. *
Wangare, you have murdered the law, and read it out of context.
"The current regulation on competition, published by the ICT ministry in 2010, equates dominance to abuse of the market. The regulator says this makes it difficult to declare a licensee dominant considering that the threshold of proof of abuse is very high."
______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
"There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk on higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Warm Regards,
Phares Kariuki
*E*: pkariuki@gmail.com | *Twitter*: kaboro | *B*: http://www.angani.co | Angani Limited
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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On 21 February 2015 at 09:20, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Phares,
The difference is, they compete against each other in the market and hence push the market and innovations forward.
Think of it this way, what if Telkom Kenya hadn't been broken up? There would not have been a Safaricom.
IMO, Safaricom should not be curtailed, but broken into two: 1. Safaricom Telcom: Mobile Voice, Data etc Services 2. Safaricom Money: Mpesa, Mshwari etc
Safaricom Money as an independent entity should then be a BFF to every Telcom local and International in Money Transfer.
Following Ali's argument, this is the company to promote and it could easily be the first Kenyan Company in Fortune 100.
But as long as its inside Safaricom where its used as a competetive tool against local competition, it will always remain a small operation internationally and with
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
time it will stifle local creativity in Mobile Money.
Ngigi,
So, with the argument that M-Pesa and it's siblings M-Name-it is used as a competitive tool against local competition, does it not go without saying that the competition should also get their Mobile Money services outside the wings of the Telco to compete with M-Pesa on level playing field? I still think Dennis got this right. These other entities are just not being competitive. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."
From a birds eye view, capitalism/markets are not perfect and thus the need for regulations to keep the market in check. Extreme case being to breakup a dominant player.
Its is this same argument that has been used to support firms which are deemed to be "too big to fail". Once in a while factors (some which have nothing to do with the company's innovativeness) will conspire to make one company dominant and the regulators have to step in and break it up otherwise we are all help hostage as @Walu pointed out earlier. I remember a few years back when KDN (currently liquid) was dominant in the infrastructure market and the panic it caused when it was nearly collapsing.... Josphat On Feb 21, 2015 9:39 AM, "Odhiambo Washington via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
On 21 February 2015 at 09:20, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Phares,
The difference is, they compete against each other in the market and hence push the market and innovations forward.
Think of it this way, what if Telkom Kenya hadn't been broken up? There would not have been a Safaricom.
IMO, Safaricom should not be curtailed, but broken into two: 1. Safaricom Telcom: Mobile Voice, Data etc Services 2. Safaricom Money: Mpesa, Mshwari etc
Safaricom Money as an independent entity should then be a BFF to every Telcom local and International in Money Transfer.
Following Ali's argument, this is the company to promote and it could easily be the first Kenyan Company in Fortune 100.
But as long as its inside Safaricom where its used as a competetive tool against local competition, it will always remain a small operation internationally and with
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
time it will stifle local creativity in Mobile Money.
Ngigi,
So, with the argument that M-Pesa and it's siblings M-Name-it is used as a competitive tool against local competition, does it not go without saying that the competition should also get their Mobile Money services outside the wings of the Telco to compete with M-Pesa on level playing field? I still think Dennis got this right. These other entities are just not being competitive.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
The Regulator sometimes fails to do their job - for example, YU should not have been merged into competitors, it should have been forced to seek a buyer elsewhere if it wanted to sell. An article on The Economist finds four mobile operators are good for a country, and three or less are bad for customers http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21641267-merger-o2-and-three-would-sui... On Sat, 21 Feb 2015 09:51 Josphat Karanja via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
From a birds eye view, capitalism/markets are not perfect and thus the need for regulations to keep the market in check. Extreme case being to breakup a dominant player.
Its is this same argument that has been used to support firms which are deemed to be "too big to fail".
Once in a while factors (some which have nothing to do with the company's innovativeness) will conspire to make one company dominant and the regulators have to step in and break it up otherwise we are all help hostage as @Walu pointed out earlier.
I remember a few years back when KDN (currently liquid) was dominant in the infrastructure market and the panic it caused when it was nearly collapsing....
Josphat On Feb 21, 2015 9:39 AM, "Odhiambo Washington via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
On 21 February 2015 at 09:20, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Phares,
The difference is, they compete against each other in the market and hence push the market and innovations forward.
Think of it this way, what if Telkom Kenya hadn't been broken up? There would not have been a Safaricom.
IMO, Safaricom should not be curtailed, but broken into two: 1. Safaricom Telcom: Mobile Voice, Data etc Services 2. Safaricom Money: Mpesa, Mshwari etc
Safaricom Money as an independent entity should then be a BFF to every Telcom local and International in Money Transfer.
Following Ali's argument, this is the company to promote and it could easily be the first Kenyan Company in Fortune 100.
But as long as its inside Safaricom where its used as a competetive tool against local competition, it will always remain a small operation internationally and with
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
time it will stifle local creativity in Mobile Money.
Ngigi,
So, with the argument that M-Pesa and it's siblings M-Name-it is used as a competitive tool against local competition, does it not go without saying that the competition should also get their Mobile Money services outside the wings of the Telco to compete with M-Pesa on level playing field? I still think Dennis got this right. These other entities are just not being competitive.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@ Ali, I think I am a social democrat aka "moderate capitalist" that is make money yes, but dont exploit the masses. Last time I argued this case Bob C thought I was a communist :-) Anyway, your solution is perfect and yes, we dont need to break up Safcom as a company (it's not in my interest though obviously it is in Airtel's and other competitors :) MPESA interoperability (publicly available APIs - for the geeks) is the "simple" answer. But try to approach that territory and you will start another war and with the Broadcasting war still simmering, I doubt that the regulator/ministry has the resources to fight on these two front simuoultaneously. Safcom can and will chew them faster than the broadcasters are attempting to do. Think Equity and their thin-sim card strategy(read interoperability attempt) and how far they went :-) walu. From: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> To: Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] [isoc_ke] Should Safaricom be broken up as 'recommended' by Airtel? Walu Do you have some socialist leanings? :) There is a simple solution to dealing with the Mpesa dominance issue. Drive policy to ENFORCE interoperability. You kill that dependency very quickly. Rwanda has done it successfully. Why can't we? after all it's a matter of national security. With interoperability I can switch seamlessly within the financial sector infrastructure without worrying. The government/Airtel/Orange/Kenya Bankers then drives awareness ala Digital Migration. :) It's not rocket science and it doesn't require any breakup. :) Ali Hussein +254 770 906375 / 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassimSkype: abu-jomoLinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassimBlog: www.alyhussein.com "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad On Feb 20, 2015, at 3:45 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: @Mwendwa - u mention some 2010 regulations on competition published by the Ministry of ICT. Not seen these regulations but I would be worried that the ministry of ICT is now publishing regulation - something that is the mandate of the Regulator. Ministry should stick to policy. Either way, the Law (as in the Constitution and the Acts are superior to the Regulations and so in case of conflict I would expect the latter to override) As for breaking up Safcom, I have always proposed we should given its giant state - even the might of MTN, Equity, Airtel combined will barely scratch its dominant position. The question is not so much that they have "earned" this position through hard work and innovation, the question is about creating backup positions for ourselves as a country. Think about it, if MPESA broke down today for more than 2hrs today, we might have street riots. This is good for Safaricom but not good for Kenyan stability -unless and until we have a reliable alternative of MPESA with similar magnitude we are literally a social bomb waiting to be triggered. Indeed if I was a foreign army wishing to attack Kenya, I will not target the barracks or statehouse, I will target MPESA. Our success is has become our biggest liability and we must face that fact and begin to think around it constructively. Airtel is secondary in this conversation if you asked me. We should have had it on own volition. walu. From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] [isoc_ke] Should Safaricom be broken up as 'recommended' by Airtel? On 18 February 2015 at 15:22, WANGARI KABIRU via isoc <isoc@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: “The Kenya Information and Communications Act section 84W gives the Communications Authority of Kenya powers to declare a service provider to be dominant if their market share is at least 50 per cent of the relevant gross market segment,” Mr Matiang’i noted. Wangare, you have murdered the law, and read it out of context. "The current regulation on competition, published by the ICT ministry in 2010, equates dominance to abuse of the market. The regulator says this makes it difficult to declare a licensee dominant considering that the threshold of proof of abuse is very high." ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya "There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk on higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@Wali That's my point exactly. We need to move this country away from vested interests and truly embrace National Interest. Interoperability is the answer and I hope the policy makers can push this through. Hope Eng. Rege is somewhere listening. (Or lurking) :) Ali Hussein +254 770 906375 / 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad
On Feb 20, 2015, at 5:30 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
@ Ali,
I think I am a social democrat aka "moderate capitalist" that is make money yes, but dont exploit the masses. Last time I argued this case Bob C thought I was a communist :-)
Anyway, your solution is perfect and yes, we dont need to break up Safcom as a company (it's not in my interest though obviously it is in Airtel's and other competitors :)
MPESA interoperability (publicly available APIs - for the geeks) is the "simple" answer. But try to approach that territory and you will start another war and with the Broadcasting war still simmering, I doubt that the regulator/ministry has the resources to fight on these two front simuoultaneously.
Safcom can and will chew them faster than the broadcasters are attempting to do. Think Equity and their thin-sim card strategy(read interoperability attempt) and how far they went :-)
walu.
From: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> To: Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] [isoc_ke] Should Safaricom be broken up as 'recommended' by Airtel?
Walu
Do you have some socialist leanings? :)
There is a simple solution to dealing with the Mpesa dominance issue. Drive policy to ENFORCE interoperability. You kill that dependency very quickly.
Rwanda has done it successfully. Why can't we? after all it's a matter of national security.
With interoperability I can switch seamlessly within the financial sector infrastructure without worrying. The government/Airtel/Orange/Kenya Bankers then drives awareness ala Digital Migration. :)
It's not rocket science and it doesn't require any breakup. :)
Ali Hussein
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 20, 2015, at 3:45 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Mwendwa - u mention some 2010 regulations on competition published by the Ministry of ICT. Not seen these regulations but I would be worried that the ministry of ICT is now publishing regulation - something that is the mandate of the Regulator. Ministry should stick to policy.
Either way, the Law (as in the Constitution and the Acts are superior to the Regulations and so in case of conflict I would expect the latter to override)
As for breaking up Safcom, I have always proposed we should given its giant state - even the might of MTN, Equity, Airtel combined will barely scratch its dominant position. The question is not so much that they have "earned" this position through hard work and innovation, the question is about creating backup positions for ourselves as a country.
Think about it, if MPESA broke down today for more than 2hrs today, we might have street riots. This is good for Safaricom but not good for Kenyan stability -unless and until we have a reliable alternative of MPESA with similar magnitude we are literally a social bomb waiting to be triggered. Indeed if I was a foreign army wishing to attack Kenya, I will not target the barracks or statehouse, I will target MPESA.
Our success is has become our biggest liability and we must face that fact and begin to think around it constructively. Airtel is secondary in this conversation if you asked me. We should have had it on own volition.
walu.
From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] [isoc_ke] Should Safaricom be broken up as 'recommended' by Airtel?
On 18 February 2015 at 15:22, WANGARI KABIRU via isoc <isoc@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: “The Kenya Information and Communications Act section 84W gives the Communications Authority of Kenya powers to declare a service provider to be dominant if their market share is at least 50 per cent of the relevant gross market segment,” Mr Matiang’i noted.
Wangare, you have murdered the law, and read it out of context.
"The current regulation on competition, published by the ICT ministry in 2010, equates dominance to abuse of the market. The regulator says this makes it difficult to declare a licensee dominant considering that the threshold of proof of abuse is very high."
______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
"There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk on higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (9)
-
Ali Hussein -
Dennis Kioko -
Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) -
Josphat Karanja -
Mwendwa Kivuva -
Ngigi Waithaka -
Odhiambo Washington -
Phares Kariuki -
Walubengo J