Re: [kictanet] Net neutrality 'first world' problem?
Good analogy Kivuva. Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113 On Feb 27, 2016 11:59 AM, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <lordmwesh@gmail.com> wrote:
Let us debate on the notion of "bread" 🍞 alone.
We all know lack of a balanced diet brings kwashiorkor. And it brings stunted growth too. Forget zika virus, normal children in Africa get smaller brains because of the stunted growth.
Take that analogy and compare it to the malnutritioned internet being paraded around. Out children too will develop intellectual Kwashiorkor On Feb 27, 2016 10:17 AM, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Ebele
It has to do with the issue of Third Party Liability.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113 On Feb 27, 2016 10:01 AM, "Ebele Okobi" <ebeleokobi@fb.com> wrote:
I'm curious-what does the KFCB demand that Google censor content have to do with net neutrality?
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Feb 27, 2016, at 5:32 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Nanjira
The CS is definitely entitled to his opinion. Like all of us. My concern is of course that his opinion can be construed to be Government Policy. And Net Neutrality cannot be distilled in such a simplistic way.
I think it's high time this country and the rest of Africa have a deep conversation about what Net Neutrality means for us.
Take for example the issue of KFCB the other day when the CEO announced that they have asked Google to take down the 'offending' video of same sex marriage/love endorsement.
I was astounded that the whole discussion degenerated to the issue of homosexuality!!
My questions and concerns were quite clear and they alluded to our total lack of policy regarding Net Neutrality. And address in an ICT Forum.
KFCB used the right tools to ask for the video take down. The same tools have been used by other governments.
With all due respect to the CS but I think he needs to be careful not to simplify this important matter. Let's discuss it fully and come up with our own Net Neutrality version. This definitely doesn't include abdicating our responsibilities as a country to global internet companies. This will be a recipe for disaster.
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
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On 27 Feb 2016, at 8:08 AM, Nanjira Sambuli via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is at least the second piece citing the CS' point of view. It might be in order to write a letter to him explaining why it is not a first world problem.
Regards, Nanjira.
Sent from my iPhone.
On 27 Feb 2016, at 07:44, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Ali Hussein)
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On Feb 27, 2016, at 12:18 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Good analogy Kivuva.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
On Feb 27, 2016 11:59 AM, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <lordmwesh@gmail.com> wrote: Let us debate on the notion of "bread" 🍞 alone.
We all know lack of a balanced diet brings kwashiorkor. And it brings stunted growth too. Forget zika virus, normal children in Africa get smaller brains because of the stunted growth.
Take that analogy and compare it to the malnutritioned internet being paraded around. Out children too will develop intellectual Kwashiorkor
On Feb 27, 2016 10:17 AM, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Ebele
It has to do with the issue of Third Party Liability.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
On Feb 27, 2016 10:01 AM, "Ebele Okobi" <ebeleokobi@fb.com> wrote: I'm curious-what does the KFCB demand that Google censor content have to do with net neutrality?
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG ebeleokobi@fb.com
On Feb 27, 2016, at 5:32 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Nanjira
The CS is definitely entitled to his opinion. Like all of us. My concern is of course that his opinion can be construed to be Government Policy. And Net Neutrality cannot be distilled in such a simplistic way.
I think it's high time this country and the rest of Africa have a deep conversation about what Net Neutrality means for us.
Take for example the issue of KFCB the other day when the CEO announced that they have asked Google to take down the 'offending' video of same sex marriage/love endorsement.
I was astounded that the whole discussion degenerated to the issue of homosexuality!!
My questions and concerns were quite clear and they alluded to our total lack of policy regarding Net Neutrality. And address in an ICT Forum.
KFCB used the right tools to ask for the video take down. The same tools have been used by other governments.
With all due respect to the CS but I think he needs to be careful not to simplify this important matter. Let's discuss it fully and come up with our own Net Neutrality version. This definitely doesn't include abdicating our responsibilities as a country to global internet companies. This will be a recipe for disaster.
Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 27 Feb 2016, at 8:08 AM, Nanjira Sambuli via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is at least the second piece citing the CS' point of view. It might be in order to write a letter to him explaining why it is not a first world problem.
Regards, Nanjira.
Sent from my iPhone.
>> On 27 Feb 2016, at 07:44, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote: > Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Ali Hussein)
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I agree, we need to discuss net neutrality in the context of Africa. However, this is how I interprate Net Neutrality in the African Context: - Firstly, SMS access to Twitter can not be termed as using the Internet. It is termed as using SMS to access a service that is not available on feature phones. So that is discounted. - If someone has access to a smart phone, he or she can get a 150 MB bundle for around 50 Shillings. You can also get daily bundles for 10 or 20 shillings. The fact that someone has a smart phone means he can easily acquire a 10 or 20 bob bundle every day. I am yet to see someone who has a smart phone but can not pay at least 50 bob for a 150 MB bundle he can utilize for at most 3 or 4 days. - There does reach a time when access to the Internet is vital, and, someone may have run out of data bundles. This may be the case in critical situations involving maybe even emergency situations. In such scenarios Internet Basics may be a huge plus. Imagine being in the middle of an area where there is unrest and you can not tweet or facebook about it. Free Basics can save the day and can give voice to people who may need to have an opinion aired before anything catastrophic happens and evidence is lost. I think we all agree that yes, it does give unfair advantage to specific players, but then what if there is a genuine need? What if we need people to talk about critical situations, what if God Forbid fire breaks out in a suburb and the people close by don't have a bundle active? Free Basics can in such situations even save lives. It can allow people to tweet and responders to respond. I do not think people would deliberately block access to other sites because they get FB or Twitter for free. What happens if they need to follow up on a link that they want to read on? But it is needed where it can be of help. So generally, lets not discount the need for access to platforms like Twitter or Facebook in cases where 999 can not be accessible. Infact, this is a good means by which emergency response services (Red Cross, etc) can set up hash tags and twitter accounts to allow respondents to send vital emergency information for quick response. For free. When there is an urgent need for it to be there. Because a 50 MB Bundle can not be used to tweet heavy photos out of an emergency scene for more than 5 minutes. Ahmed On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Good analogy Kivuva.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113 On Feb 27, 2016 11:59 AM, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <lordmwesh@gmail.com> wrote:
Let us debate on the notion of "bread" 🍞 alone.
We all know lack of a balanced diet brings kwashiorkor. And it brings stunted growth too. Forget zika virus, normal children in Africa get smaller brains because of the stunted growth.
Take that analogy and compare it to the malnutritioned internet being paraded around. Out children too will develop intellectual Kwashiorkor On Feb 27, 2016 10:17 AM, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Ebele
It has to do with the issue of Third Party Liability.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113 On Feb 27, 2016 10:01 AM, "Ebele Okobi" <ebeleokobi@fb.com> wrote:
I'm curious-what does the KFCB demand that Google censor content have to do with net neutrality?
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Feb 27, 2016, at 5:32 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Nanjira
The CS is definitely entitled to his opinion. Like all of us. My concern is of course that his opinion can be construed to be Government Policy. And Net Neutrality cannot be distilled in such a simplistic way.
I think it's high time this country and the rest of Africa have a deep conversation about what Net Neutrality means for us.
Take for example the issue of KFCB the other day when the CEO announced that they have asked Google to take down the 'offending' video of same sex marriage/love endorsement.
I was astounded that the whole discussion degenerated to the issue of homosexuality!!
My questions and concerns were quite clear and they alluded to our total lack of policy regarding Net Neutrality. And address in an ICT Forum.
KFCB used the right tools to ask for the video take down. The same tools have been used by other governments.
With all due respect to the CS but I think he needs to be careful not to simplify this important matter. Let's discuss it fully and come up with our own Net Neutrality version. This definitely doesn't include abdicating our responsibilities as a country to global internet companies. This will be a recipe for disaster.
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ke.linkedin.com_in_alihkassim&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=ZD6llrZ9U0Tt0C7TClsJ8TOxAcf6FGVyWVYRjpMuap0&s=sWZ0vbizFku0Ii-UHXdmGL18LtQiJB-I-6szcESplVI&e=>
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 27 Feb 2016, at 8:08 AM, Nanjira Sambuli via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is at least the second piece citing the CS' point of view. It might be in order to write a letter to him explaining why it is not a first world problem.
Regards, Nanjira.
Sent from my iPhone.
On 27 Feb 2016, at 07:44, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Ali Hussein)
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My view is simply do we all even understand what we are discussing here? My firm belief here is that we do not even understand what our local market requirements are and therefore the debate. All have to recognise there is s cost of running the network properly and this cost will be shared by the players who use this network yo provide services to the various provider. There needs to be an informed discussion..
On 27 Feb 2016, at 19:47, Waithaka Ngigi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I often wonder...
Would we make the choices we are making about Net Neutrality if we had never used the Internet before?
Aren't we making these choices from the PoV of the privileged few in Africa who have constant access to the Net to a point where we taking it for granted?
Is it not similiar to say someone contributing maize to a hungry family in Kenya and then someone insisting that unless it's a full balanced diet, there can be no contribution.
Or is the issue the contributors? The fact that they are commercial firms.
We have had Wikipedia free on Airtel for awhile, yet nothing much about Net Neutrality has been said....
This thing is quite a mind twister...
Waithaka Ngigi
Alliance Technologies www.at.co.ke From: Ali Hussein via kictanet Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 12:19 PM To: Ngigi Waithaka Reply To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: Ali Hussein; Nanjira Sambuli; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Net neutrality 'first world' problem?
Good analogy Kivuva.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
On Feb 27, 2016 11:59 AM, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <lordmwesh@gmail.com> wrote: Let us debate on the notion of "bread" 🍞 alone.
We all know lack of a balanced diet brings kwashiorkor. And it brings stunted growth too. Forget zika virus, normal children in Africa get smaller brains because of the stunted growth.
Take that analogy and compare it to the malnutritioned internet being paraded around. Out children too will develop intellectual Kwashiorkor
On Feb 27, 2016 10:17 AM, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Ebele
It has to do with the issue of Third Party Liability.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
On Feb 27, 2016 10:01 AM, "Ebele Okobi" <ebeleokobi@fb.com> wrote: I'm curious-what does the KFCB demand that Google censor content have to do with net neutrality?
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG ebeleokobi@fb.com
On Feb 27, 2016, at 5:32 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Nanjira
The CS is definitely entitled to his opinion. Like all of us. My concern is of course that his opinion can be construed to be Government Policy. And Net Neutrality cannot be distilled in such a simplistic way.
I think it's high time this country and the rest of Africa have a deep conversation about what Net Neutrality means for us.
Take for example the issue of KFCB the other day when the CEO announced that they have asked Google to take down the 'offending' video of same sex marriage/love endorsement.
I was astounded that the whole discussion degenerated to the issue of homosexuality!!
My questions and concerns were quite clear and they alluded to our total lack of policy regarding Net Neutrality. And address in an ICT Forum.
KFCB used the right tools to ask for the video take down. The same tools have been used by other governments.
With all due respect to the CS but I think he needs to be careful not to simplify this important matter. Let's discuss it fully and come up with our own Net Neutrality version. This definitely doesn't include abdicating our responsibilities as a country to global internet companies. This will be a recipe for disaster.
Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 27 Feb 2016, at 8:08 AM, Nanjira Sambuli via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is at least the second piece citing the CS' point of view. It might be in order to write a letter to him explaining why it is not a first world problem.
Regards, Nanjira.
Sent from my iPhone.
>> On 27 Feb 2016, at 07:44, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote: > Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Ali Hussein)
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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Colleagues, I think we are all right depending on which angle you understand the issue of net neutrality. My only problem is that the local conversation has largely been driven by assumption. I was once told that assumption is the lowest form of knowledge (not sure if this is correct). I think we need a factual conversation around Net Neutrality, as we wait for Nanjira's study it might be usefull if anyone can share Studies that were conducted in other region and policy interventions that leveled the playing ground in terms of Service Provider, Government and End User (Consumer) expectations. Thank you Best Regards On 2/27/16, Baiju Shah via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
My view is simply do we all even understand what we are discussing here? My firm belief here is that we do not even understand what our local market requirements are and therefore the debate. All have to recognise there is s cost of running the network properly and this cost will be shared by the players who use this network yo provide services to the various provider.
There needs to be an informed discussion..
On 27 Feb 2016, at 19:47, Waithaka Ngigi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I often wonder...
Would we make the choices we are making about Net Neutrality if we had never used the Internet before?
Aren't we making these choices from the PoV of the privileged few in Africa who have constant access to the Net to a point where we taking it for granted?
Is it not similiar to say someone contributing maize to a hungry family in Kenya and then someone insisting that unless it's a full balanced diet, there can be no contribution.
Or is the issue the contributors? The fact that they are commercial firms.
We have had Wikipedia free on Airtel for awhile, yet nothing much about Net Neutrality has been said....
This thing is quite a mind twister...
Waithaka Ngigi
Alliance Technologies www.at.co.ke From: Ali Hussein via kictanet Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 12:19 PM To: Ngigi Waithaka Reply To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: Ali Hussein; Nanjira Sambuli; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Net neutrality 'first world' problem?
Good analogy Kivuva.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
On Feb 27, 2016 11:59 AM, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <lordmwesh@gmail.com> wrote: Let us debate on the notion of "bread" 🍞 alone.
We all know lack of a balanced diet brings kwashiorkor. And it brings stunted growth too. Forget zika virus, normal children in Africa get smaller brains because of the stunted growth.
Take that analogy and compare it to the malnutritioned internet being paraded around. Out children too will develop intellectual Kwashiorkor
On Feb 27, 2016 10:17 AM, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Ebele
It has to do with the issue of Third Party Liability.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
On Feb 27, 2016 10:01 AM, "Ebele Okobi" <ebeleokobi@fb.com> wrote: I'm curious-what does the KFCB demand that Google censor content have to do with net neutrality?
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG ebeleokobi@fb.com
On Feb 27, 2016, at 5:32 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Nanjira
The CS is definitely entitled to his opinion. Like all of us. My concern is of course that his opinion can be construed to be Government Policy. And Net Neutrality cannot be distilled in such a simplistic way.
I think it's high time this country and the rest of Africa have a deep conversation about what Net Neutrality means for us.
Take for example the issue of KFCB the other day when the CEO announced that they have asked Google to take down the 'offending' video of same sex marriage/love endorsement.
I was astounded that the whole discussion degenerated to the issue of homosexuality!!
My questions and concerns were quite clear and they alluded to our total lack of policy regarding Net Neutrality. And address in an ICT Forum.
KFCB used the right tools to ask for the video take down. The same tools have been used by other governments.
With all due respect to the CS but I think he needs to be careful not to simplify this important matter. Let's discuss it fully and come up with our own Net Neutrality version. This definitely doesn't include abdicating our responsibilities as a country to global internet companies. This will be a recipe for disaster.
Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 27 Feb 2016, at 8:08 AM, Nanjira Sambuli via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> This is at least the second piece citing the CS' point of view. > It might be in order to write a letter to him explaining why it is > not a first world problem. > > > Regards, > Nanjira. > > Sent from my iPhone. > >>> On 27 Feb 2016, at 07:44, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> wrote: >> Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Ali Hussein) > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com > > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder > platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT > policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for > reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT > enabled growth and development. > > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable > behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times > and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, > respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or > qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=ZD6llrZ9U0Tt0C7TClsJ8TOxAcf6FGVyWVYRjpMuap0&s=bUFhmy9hQJWL003RQIjztcHlh93vhBnD6E1dD86fng4&e=
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254733206359 Skype: barrack.otieno
participants (6)
-
Ahmed Mohamed Maawy -
Ali Hussein -
Baiju Shah -
Barrack Otieno -
Phares Kariuki -
Waithaka Ngigi