Prof. Derek, I do share in your grief!! Bottom line,we cannot afford to despise our "humble begginings"(M$)but that does not mean that we remain there? is it about the money? or the software ? if M$ can afford to pay guys to make noise,then we can change that to reality with action......You get all this with FOSS: the firewalls-free, Webservers-free, databases-free, Openoffice-free, so much FREE and it is more secure operating system not that it is just free and yet,For those who need support,then they can buy Foss Enterprise softwares (much cheaper)and get the support......besides why buy a clone worth Ksh 21,000 and and a licence worth the same amount.....how does this work for a common mwananchi? How do I afford all this? at this rate we will NEVER be able to fight PIRACY. For all the kenyan FOSS user's we may have to setup a forum and air out our experiences and state why guys need to see this REALITY!! and stop using FOSS under the table..................e.g for the locally assembled systems' plse let's insist on Dual boot(M$ & Linux),It could be a start........... A request to the PS : Before the government of Kenya,makes any decision on software's,can both sides of the coin be given an opportunity?? I am not shunning M$,its just that I cannot afford it,I cannot customise it.....etc Kind Regards, On 2/8/07, idlelo2-request@fossfa.net <idlelo2-request@fossfa.net> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Permanant Secretary of Kenya speaks about negotiating for cheaper development tools (John Walubengo) 2. Re: Permanent Secretary of Kenya speaks about negotiating forcheaper development tools (PROF. HENRY M. THAIRU) 3. Re: Permanant Secretary of Kenya speaks about negotiating for cheaper development tools (Jonah Munyua) 4. Re: Permanant Secretary of Kenya speaks about negotiating for cheaper development tools (Dorcas Muthoni)

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Message: 1 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 01:59:30 -0800 (PST) From: John Walubengo <jwalu@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Idlelo2] Permanant Secretary of Kenya speaks about negotiating for cheaper development tools To: dkeats@uwc.ac.za, Idlelo <idlelo2@fossfa.net> Message-ID: <442956.64301.qm@web56604.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Derek,

my take on this is two-fold: 1. FOSS does lack the might(economic, political, marketing, etc) to demonstrate its huge benefit. 2. FOSS need not mean 'NOT MICROSOFT'.

I wish to further comment on point 2. in that the current realities in KE and most of the world really is that the desk-top is largely M$ and we shouldn't really mourn too much about that - after all, it does pay the bills for a large number Kenyans who have created careers around M$.

A preferred strategy to deal with the omni-present M$ would be one whereby we are co-existing but with a long-term view to become omni-present. And this brings us back to FOSS limitations - point 1 above- we just don't have the dollar might to pull it off.

Currently, a lot is happening in .KE regarding ICTs. And in most cases, including this morning's Grand Opening Ceremony of the ICT Expo at Kenyatta Int. Conf. Center, M$ sits on th e high-table. Why? because we in FOSS seem to lack the might and probably the incentives to pull strings at high-levels...M$ has the budget to do it. FOSS doesn't and at the end of the day, it is all about $$.

Using this might M$ is set to burn their costly OS on every PC that the Kenya Govt is set to assemble for Computers in Kenyan schools. Where's Open-source in this long-term game-plan? I did hint to the Project Manager's about OS on these computers, but hey, you need more than hints, you need a sustained, almost full-time job of pushing the idea/agenda. I believe M$ has a clear budget to pay their people to sing their tune, on a sustainable basis. We don't.

Finally, I would repeat: I prefer FOSS, but if M$ comes along I can use it as well. At least upto and when FOSS does wake up in a sustained, coherent way. And I think the PS Min of Info has to work with what is visible, sustained and available. M$ in .KE is simply being more visible than FOSS and we have had to work with it in a co-existent sort of a way...

walu.

--- Derek Keats <dkeats@uwc.ac.za> wrote:

...

I am writing this from the 1st International Conference in Computer Science and Informatics (COSCIT 2007), in Nairobi Kenya. In the opening session, Dr. B. Ndemo, Permanant Secretary in the Kenyan Ministry of Information & Communication, gave a speech about ICT in Kenya. He spent quite a bit of time talking about negotiating a deal with Microsoft to make their software cheaper for Kenyans, including developer tools so that Kenyans could become software developers. The local Microsoft representative was in the audience, naturally. Members of the Microsoft "technical officer" team follow politicians and policy makers around like flies follow sick dogs. She left when the Permanant Secretary left. Apparently, a meeting of many of the computer scientists in Kenya was not important enough for her; certainly not as important as being visible to the Permanant Secretary.

When the Permanant Secretary made this pronouncement about these negotiations, completely ignoring all that is happening in Kenya with respect to FOSS, I was shocked and saddened. I wanted to ask why waste time removing impediments to creating Kenyan software developers, when with FOSS we can start immediately. There is nothing to negotiate, the tools are as good or better than the tools for Windows, and there are no barriers to innovation. Java, C, C++, C# Python, .NET, PHP, BASIC, and most other environments are available on GNU/Linux. Why do Kenyans need to waste their money getting permission from Microsoft to use these languages for training software developers? This mystery that is only explainable by the constant lobbying pressure from the "technical officers" and their like. There is absolutely no rational basis for it.

The minister is implicitly saying that it is right for Kenya to pay money to Microsoft and create a long-term dependence on them, thus using the Kenyan taxpayer's money to create development opportunities in Redmond Washington, an area of the world that really needs dollars from Kenya. It is clear that Dr. Ndemo does not understand that innovation happens faster when barriers are as few as they can reasonably be. With Free Software, this is the case. With propriteary tools, barriers have to be negotiated, and this limits and inhibits innovation.

I wanted to show the Permanant Secretary my Ubuntu desktop, equipped with Free Software development tools for which I need neither permission nor to pay license fees to use, and which I can use immediately, no negotiation required. The Permanant Secretary clearly just doesn't get it. Unfortunately, the session did not have a question peroid, and he left along with the Microsoft lap dog (er, I mean representative) before I could use my own keynote space to show him what Free Software can do.

So Kenyans active in FOSS, you have a responsibility, this man is in need of some educating. Please make an appointment, go see him. Show him what you are accomplishing with software Freedom. We need to find a way to balance the lobbying power of Microsoft, so that truth and logic have a reasonable chance of prevailing.

cheers Derek

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Message: 2 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:00:16 +0300 From: "PROF. HENRY M. THAIRU" <hmthairu@wananchi.com> Subject: Re: [Idlelo2] Permanent Secretary of Kenya speaks about negotiating forcheaper development tools To: <dkeats@uwc.ac.za>, "'Idlelo'" <idlelo2@fossfa.net> Message-ID: <003201c74ad1$223b9960$0600010a@prof> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"

Dear Derek. It is good to hear your very clear voice again. We are impressing on the PS on the importance of FOSS. Nobody needs permission to use these tools. Thank you for this letter. Henry Thairu

-----Original Message----- From: idlelo2-bounces+hmthairu=wananchi.com@fossfa.net [mailto:idlelo2-bounces+hmthairu=wananchi.com@fossfa.net] On Behalf Of Derek Keats Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 9:44 AM To: Idlelo Subject: [Idlelo2] Permanant Secretary of Kenya speaks about negotiating forcheaper development tools

I am writing this from the 1st International Conference in Computer Science and Informatics (COSCIT 2007), in Nairobi Kenya. In the opening session, Dr. B. Ndemo, Permanant Secretary in the Kenyan Ministry of Information & Communication, gave a speech about ICT in Kenya. He spent quite a bit of time talking about negotiating a deal with Microsoft to make their software cheaper for Kenyans, including developer tools so that Kenyans could become software developers. The local Microsoft representative was in the audience, naturally. Members of the Microsoft "technical officer" team follow politicians and policy makers around like flies follow sick dogs. She left when the Permanant Secretary left. Apparently, a meeting of many of the computer scientists in Kenya was not important enough for her; certainly not as important as being visible to the Permanant Secretary.

When the Permanant Secretary made this pronouncement about these negotiations, completely ignoring all that is happening in Kenya with respect to FOSS, I was shocked and saddened. I wanted to ask why waste time removing impediments to creating Kenyan software developers, when with FOSS we can start immediately. There is nothing to negotiate, the tools are as good or better than the tools for Windows, and there are no barriers to innovation. Java, C, C++, C# Python, .NET, PHP, BASIC, and most other environments are available on GNU/Linux. Why do Kenyans need to waste their money getting permission from Microsoft to use these languages for training software developers? This mystery that is only explainable by the constant lobbying pressure from the "technical officers" and their like. There is absolutely no rational basis for it.

The minister is implicitly saying that it is right for Kenya to pay money to Microsoft and create a long-term dependence on them, thus using the Kenyan taxpayer's money to create development opportunities in Redmond Washington, an area of the world that really needs dollars from Kenya. It is clear that Dr. Ndemo does not understand that innovation happens faster when barriers are as few as they can reasonably be. With Free Software, this is the case. With propriteary tools, barriers have to be negotiated, and this limits and inhibits innovation.

I wanted to show the Permanant Secretary my Ubuntu desktop, equipped with Free Software development tools for which I need neither permission nor to pay license fees to use, and which I can use immediately, no negotiation required. The Permanant Secretary clearly just doesn't get it. Unfortunately, the session did not have a question peroid, and he left along with the Microsoft lap dog (er, I mean representative) before I could use my own keynote space to show him what Free Software can do.

So Kenyans active in FOSS, you have a responsibility, this man is in need of some educating. Please make an appointment, go see him. Show him what you are accomplishing with software Freedom. We need to find a way to balance the lobbying power of Microsoft, so that truth and logic have a reasonable chance of prevailing.

cheers Derek

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Message: 3 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 08:30:59 -0800 (PST) From: Jonah Munyua <jonah_bits@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Idlelo2] Permanant Secretary of Kenya speaks about negotiating for cheaper development tools To: idlelo2@fossfa.net Message-ID: <946250.46064.qm@web35301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Derek,

I am saddened by the Permanent Secretary's proclamation. It is evident that Microsoft has been stalking and hijacking all ICT events in Kenya. To them what matters is not what the stakeholders have to say rather what the government says and thats why the representative left as soon as the PS made his speech.

Being a software developer using FOSS i understand the revolution that it can bring to this country and the developing world at large. Microsoft Products require expensive PC's to run them. I thus see no logic in trying to get Microsoft to lower the cost of their Softwares as there will still be the inhibiting cost of acquiring the PC's.

It is unfortunate that even the local universities are not taking FOSS with the seriousness it requires. Computer literacy courses in Kenya are geared towards Microsoft products and thus the current scenario where very few users know that they can use FOSS to achieve what they can on MS products.

The government is putting unnecessary effort and collaboration with MS to fight piracy of MS products. To me these efforts should be geared towards the promotion of FOSS.

I wish that these sentiments from the PS will serve as a calling to all FOSS users and advocates in Kenya to intensify the campaign for FOSS in Kenya.

Regards

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