the firewalls-free,
Webservers-free,
databases-free,
Openoffice-free, so much
FREE and it is more secure operating system
not that it is just
free and yet,For those who need support,then they can buy Foss
Enterprise softwares (much cheaper)and get the support......besides why
buy a clone worth Ksh 21,000 and and a licence worth the same
amount.....how does this work for a common
mwananchi? How do I afford all
this?
at this rate we will NEVER be able to fight PIRACY.
For all the kenyan FOSS user's we may have to setup a forum and air out our experiences and state why guys need to see this REALITY!! and stop using FOSS under the table..................e.g for the locally assembled systems' plse let's insist on Dual boot(M$ & Linux),It could be a start...........
A request to the PS :
Before the government of Kenya,makes any decision on software's,can both sides of the coin be given an opportunity??
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Permanant Secretary of Kenya speaks about negotiating for
cheaper development tools (John Walubengo)
2. Re: Permanent Secretary of Kenya speaks about negotiating
forcheaper development tools (PROF. HENRY M. THAIRU)
3. Re: Permanant Secretary of Kenya speaks about negotiating for
cheaper development tools (Jonah Munyua)
4. Re: Permanant Secretary of Kenya speaks about negotiating for
cheaper development tools (Dorcas Muthoni)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 01:59:30 -0800 (PST)
From: John Walubengo < jwalu@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Idlelo2] Permanant Secretary of Kenya speaks about
negotiating for cheaper development tools
To: dkeats@uwc.ac.za, Idlelo <idlelo2@fossfa.net>
Message-ID: <442956.64301.qm@web56604.mail.re3.yahoo.com >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Derek,
my take on this is two-fold:
1. FOSS does lack the might(economic, political, marketing,
etc) to demonstrate its huge benefit.
2. FOSS need not mean 'NOT MICROSOFT'.
I wish to further comment on point 2. in that the current
realities in KE and most of the world really is that the
desk-top is largely M$ and we shouldn't really mourn too
much about that - after all, it does pay the bills for a
large number Kenyans who have created careers around M$.
A preferred strategy to deal with the omni-present M$ would
be one whereby we are co-existing but with a long-term view
to become omni-present. And this brings us back to FOSS
limitations - point 1 above- we just don't have the dollar
might to pull it off.
Currently, a lot is happening in .KE regarding ICTs. And
in most cases, including this morning's Grand Opening
Ceremony of the ICT Expo at Kenyatta Int. Conf. Center, M$
sits on th e high-table. Why? because we in FOSS seem to
lack the might and probably the incentives to pull strings
at high-levels...M$ has the budget to do it. FOSS doesn't
and at the end of the day, it is all about $$.
Using this might M$ is set to burn their costly OS on every
PC that the Kenya Govt is set to assemble for Computers in
Kenyan schools. Where's Open-source in this long-term
game-plan? I did hint to the Project Manager's about OS on
these computers, but hey, you need more than hints, you
need a sustained, almost full-time job of pushing the
idea/agenda. I believe M$ has a clear budget to pay their
people to sing their tune, on a sustainable basis. We
don't.
Finally, I would repeat: I prefer FOSS, but if M$ comes
along I can use it as well. At least upto and when FOSS
does wake up in a sustained, coherent way. And I think the
PS Min of Info has to work with what is visible, sustained
and available. M$ in .KE is simply being more visible than
FOSS and we have had to work with it in a co-existent sort
of a way...
walu.
--- Derek Keats <dkeats@uwc.ac.za> wrote:
>
> I am writing this from the 1st International Conference
> in Computer
> Science and Informatics (COSCIT 2007), in Nairobi Kenya.
> In the opening
> session, Dr. B. Ndemo, Permanant Secretary in the Kenyan
> Ministry of
> Information & Communication, gave a speech about ICT in
> Kenya. He spent
> quite a bit of time talking about negotiating a deal with
> Microsoft to
> make their software cheaper for Kenyans, including
> developer tools so
> that Kenyans could become software developers. The local
> Microsoft
> representative was in the audience, naturally. Members of
> the Microsoft
> "technical officer" team follow politicians and policy
> makers around
> like flies follow sick dogs. She left when the Permanant
> Secretary left.
> Apparently, a meeting of many of the computer scientists
> in Kenya was
> not important enough for her; certainly not as important
> as being
> visible to the Permanant Secretary.
>
> When the Permanant Secretary made this pronouncement
> about these
> negotiations, completely ignoring all that is happening
> in Kenya with
> respect to FOSS, I was shocked and saddened. I wanted to
> ask why waste
> time removing impediments to creating Kenyan software
> developers, when
> with FOSS we can start immediately. There is nothing to
> negotiate, the
> tools are as good or better than the tools for Windows,
> and there are no
> barriers to innovation. Java, C, C++, C# Python, .NET,
> PHP, BASIC, and
> most other environments are available on GNU/Linux. Why
> do Kenyans need
> to waste their money getting permission from Microsoft to
> use these
> languages for training software developers? This mystery
> that is only
> explainable by the constant lobbying pressure from the
> "technical
> officers" and their like. There is absolutely no rational
> basis for it.
>
> The minister is implicitly saying that it is right for
> Kenya to pay
> money to Microsoft and create a long-term dependence on
> them, thus using
> the Kenyan taxpayer's money to create development
> opportunities in
> Redmond Washington, an area of the world that really
> needs dollars from
> Kenya. It is clear that Dr. Ndemo does not understand
> that innovation
> happens faster when barriers are as few as they can
> reasonably be. With
> Free Software, this is the case. With propriteary tools,
> barriers have
> to be negotiated, and this limits and inhibits
> innovation.
>
> I wanted to show the Permanant Secretary my Ubuntu
> desktop, equipped
> with Free Software development tools for which I need
> neither permission
> nor to pay license fees to use, and which I can use
> immediately, no
> negotiation required. The Permanant Secretary clearly
> just doesn't get
> it. Unfortunately, the session did not have a question
> peroid, and he
> left along with the Microsoft lap dog (er, I mean
> representative) before
> I could use my own keynote space to show him what Free
> Software can do.
>
> So Kenyans active in FOSS, you have a responsibility,
> this man is in
> need of some educating. Please make an appointment, go
> see him. Show him
> what you are accomplishing with software Freedom. We need
> to find a way
> to balance the lobbying power of Microsoft, so that truth
> and logic have
> a reasonable chance of prevailing.
>
> cheers
> Derek
>
> > All Email originating from UWC is covered by disclaimer
>
http://www.uwc.ac.za/portal/uwc2006/content/mail_disclaimer/index.htm
>
> > _______________________________________________
> Idlelo2 mailing list
> Idlelo2@fossfa.net
> http://mailman.dst.gov.za/mailman/listinfo/idlelo2
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:00:16 +0300
From: "PROF. HENRY M. THAIRU" <hmthairu@wananchi.com>
Subject: Re: [Idlelo2] Permanent Secretary of Kenya speaks about
negotiating forcheaper development tools
To: <dkeats@uwc.ac.za>, "'Idlelo'" <idlelo2@fossfa.net>
Message-ID: < 003201c74ad1$223b9960$0600010a@prof>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"
Dear Derek.
It is good to hear your very clear voice again. We are impressing on the PS
on the importance of FOSS. Nobody needs permission to use these tools. Thank
you for this letter.
Henry Thairu
-----Original Message-----
From: idlelo2-bounces+hmthairu=wananchi.com@fossfa.net
[mailto: idlelo2-bounces+hmthairu=wananchi.com@fossfa.net] On Behalf Of Derek
Keats
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 9:44 AM
To: Idlelo
Subject: [Idlelo2] Permanant Secretary of Kenya speaks about negotiating
forcheaper development tools
I am writing this from the 1st International Conference in Computer
Science and Informatics (COSCIT 2007), in Nairobi Kenya. In the opening
session, Dr. B. Ndemo, Permanant Secretary in the Kenyan Ministry of
Information & Communication, gave a speech about ICT in Kenya. He spent
quite a bit of time talking about negotiating a deal with Microsoft to
make their software cheaper for Kenyans, including developer tools so
that Kenyans could become software developers. The local Microsoft
representative was in the audience, naturally. Members of the Microsoft
"technical officer" team follow politicians and policy makers around
like flies follow sick dogs. She left when the Permanant Secretary left.
Apparently, a meeting of many of the computer scientists in Kenya was
not important enough for her; certainly not as important as being
visible to the Permanant Secretary.
When the Permanant Secretary made this pronouncement about these
negotiations, completely ignoring all that is happening in Kenya with
respect to FOSS, I was shocked and saddened. I wanted to ask why waste
time removing impediments to creating Kenyan software developers, when
with FOSS we can start immediately. There is nothing to negotiate, the
tools are as good or better than the tools for Windows, and there are no
barriers to innovation. Java, C, C++, C# Python, .NET, PHP, BASIC, and
most other environments are available on GNU/Linux. Why do Kenyans need
to waste their money getting permission from Microsoft to use these
languages for training software developers? This mystery that is only
explainable by the constant lobbying pressure from the "technical
officers" and their like. There is absolutely no rational basis for it.
The minister is implicitly saying that it is right for Kenya to pay
money to Microsoft and create a long-term dependence on them, thus using
the Kenyan taxpayer's money to create development opportunities in
Redmond Washington, an area of the world that really needs dollars from
Kenya. It is clear that Dr. Ndemo does not understand that innovation
happens faster when barriers are as few as they can reasonably be. With
Free Software, this is the case. With propriteary tools, barriers have
to be negotiated, and this limits and inhibits innovation.
I wanted to show the Permanant Secretary my Ubuntu desktop, equipped
with Free Software development tools for which I need neither permission
nor to pay license fees to use, and which I can use immediately, no
negotiation required. The Permanant Secretary clearly just doesn't get
it. Unfortunately, the session did not have a question peroid, and he
left along with the Microsoft lap dog (er, I mean representative) before
I could use my own keynote space to show him what Free Software can do.
So Kenyans active in FOSS, you have a responsibility, this man is in
need of some educating. Please make an appointment, go see him. Show him
what you are accomplishing with software Freedom. We need to find a way
to balance the lobbying power of Microsoft, so that truth and logic have
a reasonable chance of prevailing.
cheers
Derek
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.29/673 - Release Date: 2/6/2007
5:52 PM
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.29/673 - Release Date: 2/6/2007
5:52 PM
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 08:30:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonah Munyua <jonah_bits@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Idlelo2] Permanant Secretary of Kenya speaks about
negotiating for cheaper development tools
To: idlelo2@fossfa.net
Message-ID: <946250.46064.qm@web35301.mail.mud.yahoo.com >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Derek,
I am saddened by the Permanent Secretary's proclamation. It is evident that Microsoft has been stalking and hijacking all ICT events in Kenya. To them what matters is not what the stakeholders have to say rather what the government says and thats why the representative left as soon as the PS made his speech.
Being a software developer using FOSS i understand the revolution that it can bring to this country and the developing world at large. Microsoft Products require expensive PC's to run them. I thus see no logic in trying to get Microsoft to lower the cost of their Softwares as there will still be the inhibiting cost of acquiring the PC's.
It is unfortunate that even the local universities are not taking FOSS with the seriousness it requires. Computer literacy courses in Kenya are geared towards Microsoft products and thus the current scenario where very few users know that they can use FOSS to achieve what they can on MS products.
The government is putting unnecessary effort and collaboration with MS to fight piracy of MS products. To me these efforts should be geared towards the promotion of FOSS.
I wish that these sentiments from the PS will serve as a calling to all FOSS users and advocates in Kenya to intensify the campaign for FOSS in Kenya.
Regards
---------------------------------
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Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 20:06:35 +0300 (EAT)
From: "Dorcas Muthoni" <dmuthoni@kenet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [Idlelo2] Permanant Secretary of Kenya speaks about
negotiating for cheaper development tools
To: "John Walubengo" <jwalu@yahoo.com>
Cc: Idlelo <idlelo2@fossfa.net >
Message-ID: <25090.212.49.84.7.1170867995.squirrel@mail.kenet.or.ke>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Dear All,
These battles are being fought in every country and Kenya will be no
different.
For the first time in Kenya, there is an FOSS stand in an ICT exhibition.
This to me is making in-roads.
The minister and the PS actually passed there and i gave them each a copy
of the OpenCD. They gladly receieved.
However, a senior M$ representative who was right at the back of the
minister dared ask that they don't take it. I was amazed!
We can't afford to cushion this kind of attitude. This has to be dealt
with through awareness creation and partnerships with the government. I
will definitely be playing my role here as a service provider. Other
sub-sectors are gaining by putting the government upto date with their
expectations.
We are not anti-anyone, we are just pro-development. We just have to
reduce this trade deficit! How will Kenya Vision 2030 be achieved? I see
ICTs and FOSS in particular playing great role here.
8 GDP per capita months to acquire software for a basic PC setup? Spare me.
With all the economic and development benefits FOSS has to offer, we have
to lobby and make the government aware.
Please join me.
Muthoni
muthoni@openworld.co.ke
> Derek,
>
> my take on this is two-fold:
> 1. FOSS does lack the might(economic, political, marketing,
> etc) to demonstrate its huge benefit.
> 2. FOSS need not mean 'NOT MICROSOFT'.
>
> I wish to further comment on point 2. in that the current
> realities in KE and most of the world really is that the
> desk-top is largely M$ and we shouldn't really mourn too
> much about that - after all, it does pay the bills for a
> large number Kenyans who have created careers around M$.
>
> A preferred strategy to deal with the omni-present M$ would
> be one whereby we are co-existing but with a long-term view
> to become omni-present. And this brings us back to FOSS
> limitations - point 1 above- we just don't have the dollar
> might to pull it off.
>
> Currently, a lot is happening in .KE regarding ICTs. And
> in most cases, including this morning's Grand Opening
> Ceremony of the ICT Expo at Kenyatta Int. Conf. Center, M$
> sits on th e high-table. Why? because we in FOSS seem to
> lack the might and probably the incentives to pull strings
> at high-levels...M$ has the budget to do it. FOSS doesn't
> and at the end of the day, it is all about $$.
>
> Using this might M$ is set to burn their costly OS on every
> PC that the Kenya Govt is set to assemble for Computers in
> Kenyan schools. Where's Open-source in this long-term
> game-plan? I did hint to the Project Manager's about OS on
> these computers, but hey, you need more than hints, you
> need a sustained, almost full-time job of pushing the
> idea/agenda. I believe M$ has a clear budget to pay their
> people to sing their tune, on a sustainable basis. We
> don't.
>
> Finally, I would repeat: I prefer FOSS, but if M$ comes
> along I can use it as well. At least upto and when FOSS
> does wake up in a sustained, coherent way. And I think the
> PS Min of Info has to work with what is visible, sustained
> and available. M$ in .KE is simply being more visible than
> FOSS and we have had to work with it in a co-existent sort
> of a way...
>
> walu.
>
> --- Derek Keats < dkeats@uwc.ac.za> wrote:
>
>>
>> I am writing this from the 1st International Conference
>> in Computer
>> Science and Informatics (COSCIT 2007), in Nairobi Kenya.
>> In the opening
>> session, Dr. B. Ndemo, Permanant Secretary in the Kenyan
>> Ministry of
>> Information & Communication, gave a speech about ICT in
>> Kenya. He spent
>> quite a bit of time talking about negotiating a deal with
>> Microsoft to
>> make their software cheaper for Kenyans, including
>> developer tools so
>> that Kenyans could become software developers. The local
>> Microsoft
>> representative was in the audience, naturally. Members of
>> the Microsoft
>> "technical officer" team follow politicians and policy
>> makers around
>> like flies follow sick dogs. She left when the Permanant
>> Secretary left.
>> Apparently, a meeting of many of the computer scientists
>> in Kenya was
>> not important enough for her; certainly not as important
>> as being
>> visible to the Permanant Secretary.
>>
>> When the Permanant Secretary made this pronouncement
>> about these
>> negotiations, completely ignoring all that is happening
>> in Kenya with
>> respect to FOSS, I was shocked and saddened. I wanted to
>> ask why waste
>> time removing impediments to creating Kenyan software
>> developers, when
>> with FOSS we can start immediately. There is nothing to
>> negotiate, the
>> tools are as good or better than the tools for Windows,
>> and there are no
>> barriers to innovation. Java, C, C++, C# Python, .NET,
>> PHP, BASIC, and
>> most other environments are available on GNU/Linux. Why
>> do Kenyans need
>> to waste their money getting permission from Microsoft to
>> use these
>> languages for training software developers? This mystery
>> that is only
>> explainable by the constant lobbying pressure from the
>> "technical
>> officers" and their like. There is absolutely no rational
>> basis for it.
>>
>> The minister is implicitly saying that it is right for
>> Kenya to pay
>> money to Microsoft and create a long-term dependence on
>> them, thus using
>> the Kenyan taxpayer's money to create development
>> opportunities in
>> Redmond Washington, an area of the world that really
>> needs dollars from
>> Kenya. It is clear that Dr. Ndemo does not understand
>> that innovation
>> happens faster when barriers are as few as they can
>> reasonably be. With
>> Free Software, this is the case. With propriteary tools,
>> barriers have
>> to be negotiated, and this limits and inhibits
>> innovation.
>>
>> I wanted to show the Permanant Secretary my Ubuntu
>> desktop, equipped
>> with Free Software development tools for which I need
>> neither permission
>> nor to pay license fees to use, and which I can use
>> immediately, no
>> negotiation required. The Permanant Secretary clearly
>> just doesn't get
>> it. Unfortunately, the session did not have a question
>> peroid, and he
>> left along with the Microsoft lap dog (er, I mean
>> representative) before
>> I could use my own keynote space to show him what Free
>> Software can do.
>>
>> So Kenyans active in FOSS, you have a responsibility,
>> this man is in
>> need of some educating. Please make an appointment, go
>> see him. Show him
>> what you are accomplishing with software Freedom. We need
>> to find a way
>> to balance the lobbying power of Microsoft, so that truth
>> and logic have
>> a reasonable chance of prevailing.
>>
>> cheers
>> Derek
>>
>> > All Email originating from UWC is covered by disclaimer
>>
> http://www.uwc.ac.za/portal/uwc2006/content/mail_disclaimer/index.htm
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> Idlelo2 mailing list
>> Idlelo2@fossfa.net
>> http://mailman.dst.gov.za/mailman/listinfo/idlelo2
>>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
> http://new.mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idlelo2 mailing list
> Idlelo2@fossfa.net
> http://mailman.dst.gov.za/mailman/listinfo/idlelo2
>
------------------------------
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End of Idlelo2 Digest, Vol 13, Issue 7
**************************************