Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Thanks Nd Kivuva. Somehow, I didn't receive Nd Ali's response to mine which you seem to have responded to and for which I thank you.
CCK had posted the AfCPs inviting views in order to prepare for the Ghana meeting and also the meeting in Dubai. We indicated that we subscribed to the same, having contributed to their development. There was also a request that we study Proposals from other Regions. Further, there was a promise then, and still is, that CCK would convene a meeting of Stakeholders before the meeting in Dubai. Giving or taking credit for pushing Government on its views on ITRs is inappropriate when the initiative was itself from Government/CCK.
To date, much of what I hear is not on substantive input, either on
AfCPs or Proposals from other Regions, but clamour for a Stakeholders' meeting or posting such as "thanks for a promise of a breakfast meeting" or 'pushing Gov't on its views'! We are a growing to be a society more comfortable attending workshops/breakfast meetings rather than the actual 'on the table work.' Let me reiterate that the rubber will meet the road, not in the fact that CCK has organised a Stake holder's workshop, but in a delegation that has prepared its docs, read the meeting docs/docs from other Regions and prepared to present reasoned arguments.
Even as we hail the promise of a breakfast meeting or giving credit for pushing Gov't, please let us read the postings and offer substantive comments. It would help if the local Secretariat can prepare documentation for the workshop/breakfast meeting based on views presented apriori. As mentioned earlier, the official report of Ghana is out and should be posted either today or tomorrow.
Kind rgds.
OMO, John, Commission Secretary, Communications Commission of Kenya, P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800. Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348 "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr.
________________________________
From: kictanet on behalf of Kivuva Sent: Sun 11/4/2012 18:42 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Thank you Ali for pushing for a government position on ITRs. When there is silence it means that 1. The government is playing their position like a secret card that should not be shown in public. 2. We don't have a position. 3. We don't understand what is being discussed.
Thanks Dr. Ndemo for the hint of a breakfast meeting to clear the air.
Regards
On 04/11/2012, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Ndugu Omo
Thanks for your note. I had actually refrained from posting any comments because of the Ghana meeting. In retrospect may be I should have irrespective of the Ghana meeting.
I must say that this kind of discourse is definitely helpful and goes a long way in calming the waters.
I look forward to the stakeholders meeting in the 13th Nov.
Regards
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 4, 2012, at 9:06 AM, "Omo, John" <Omo@cck.go.ke> wrote:
Noted and thanks Nd Ali.
We had posted a draft of the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) amending the ITRs. The AfCPs were the culmination of two preparatory meetings by Stakeholders held in Cairo and Durban. Our request was that Kenyan Stakeholders study and forward comments on the same to assist in our preparations for the preparatory meeting held in Ghana and also for a Kenyan Stakeholders meeting before the Dubai meeting. I remember getting indications that you'd study the same and revert with your comments. We are still waiting.
The way this works is this: in order to have better use of time at Conferences, stakeholders are encouraged develop proposals common to their regions. Of course Member States, being sovereign, can submit their individual proposals separate from and even in opposition to their Regions (See a number of US proposals or common to both the US and Canada,
are different from those of CITEL to which both countries are a member). But it is better that views that are similar to a region or inter-region/s are submitted and discussed as common proposals. That hastens consensus building and saves on time at the Conference. We had indicated that our views as a country was pretty much a long the proposed AfCPs to which we have contributed.
The official outcome of the Ghana meeting is now out and has some improvements to the Durban draft. We are uploading the same early
week, again with a request to Stakeholders submit substantive comments that would aid in either endorsing/not endorsing the same. The proposals will still be debated strenuously at the Conference which will take decisions largely by way of consensus. Please, please let us study
draft proposals including those from other Regions - that is where
Listers, I am pleased to inform you that we have uploaded the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) agreed upon in Ghana onto the CCK website. The AfCPs are available at http://www.cck.go.ke/links/consultations/current_consultations/African_C ommon_Proposals_the_ITRs_Rev.pdf As already communicated by my colleagues, CCK shall host a stakeholders meeting on 13th November 2012 to share the proposals or Kenya's position on ITRs and collect comments/input on the same from the industry and other interested parties. The venue of the stakeholders meeting shall be communicated in the course of the week. We look forward to receiving substantive comments on the ITRs ahead of the stakeholders meeting. Best regards, Christopher Wambua Manager/Communications Consumer and Public Affairs Division Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448, NAIROBI 00800 KENYA -----Original Message----- From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+wambua=cck.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of alice@apc.org Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 3:40 PM To: Wambua, Christopher Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? Dear all I agree with Omo. Is it possible to provide/discuss substantive comments to the current proposals for revisions of ITRs to assist the CCK finalize on developing a national position. However, I can also understand why some stakeholder are not able to contribute. It would have been good, in retrospect to have organized a session to dymystify the ITRs and the discuss the merits/demerits of the current proposals. Apologies for adding to the noise rather than contributing substantively. best Alice the that this the the
rubber will meet the road in Dubai. Tentatively, we plan to have a local stakeholders meeting on the 13th Nov.
With kind rgds. OMO, John Commission Secretary Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800 Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348
"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr.
From: kictanet on behalf of Ali Hussein Sent: Sat 11/3/2012 09:17 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Chip
Thanks for the clarifications and updates.
Listers
I hate to bring this issue up again but should the utter and complete silence from the CCK on our country position raise red flags?
Bwana DG Wangusi with all due respect to your good offices can we have some sort of statement on this issue? I believe it is critically important that we do know and I honestly believe that whatever that position is (whether it emanates from the IGF deliberations or not) it should now be made public. We are less than two months away from WCIT Dubai.
Regards
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 3:07 AM, "Chip Sharp (chsharp)" <chsharp@cisco.com> wrote:
I'm sorry I'm late to this conversation, but I wanted to point out a few things.
The only proposals for revision of the ITRs that will be considered at the WCIT are from Member States or Regional groups (e.g., ATU, CEPT).
This means there are no ITU proposals to the WCIT. So where the article says "ITU proposal" it should say "country or regional proposal".
It also means there is no ETNO proposal to the WCIT. The text ETNO have proposed must be submitted by a country or region or it won't be considered.
The proposals that have been made public are not officially to be considered at WCIT. The countries or regions must submit their proposals (again) directly to the WCIT. These country proposals to the WCIT can be different from what has been made public. After reviewing the current submissions to WCIT I can say that some are different from what the same country or region proposed in the public document. A few of the differences are important. So ITU would need to make TD-1 and its revisions public to keep people informed as to the actual proposals into WCIT.
ATU proposals are not yet available on the ITU website.
Chip **Disclaimer: these are my opinions and not those of Cisco or the US del.***
On Oct 18, 2012, at 6:49 AM, "George Nyabuga" <george@afrinic.net> wrote:
An interesting article in The Guardian, quoting, among others, our own Alice Munyua. But what the listers make of it?
See article at:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/17/who-rules-internet?CMP= twt_gu
George
Dr George Nyabuga Tel: +230 403 51 00 Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC Fax: +230 466 67
58
george@afrinic.net - www.afrinic.net
----------------------------
Join us at AFRINIC-17 for our Public Policy Meeting in Khartoum, Sudan, on 24 - 29 November 2012
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-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva For Business Development Transworld Computer Channels Cel: 0722402248 twitter.com/lordmwesh transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know
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for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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Hi, This question was never discussed exhaustively and neither was an answer given yet every day this question remains unanswered we move closer to the edge of an abyss. The extract below is from an article, http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/11/gmail-location-data-petraeus/, on the resignation of the head of the CIA as a result of a friendly request from a friend on the FBI, it is interesting to know that even in the USA who you know makes a lot of difference in how the authorities treat a threat. "The e-mail provider and search giant releases a so-called Transparency Report every six months, to provide users with generic statistics about government requests for data and takedowns. The last 2011 report showed that U.S. government agencies sought user data from Google 6,321 times for the six months ending December 2011, which was up from 5,950 during the first six months of 2011. The requests targeted 12,243 Google accounts in the latter half of that year, and 11,057 in the six months prior." Google provides services to users across different countries and continents but from the statement above since the data sits in the USA then its access is governed by the law's of that jurisdiction know you understand why google will never put up a data center in Kenya and mPesa is not coming home unlike Zack. It is now clear who owns the Internet and one of this days the owners will restrict access to certain regions because of flimsy issues like that the fellow is bald and he types funny. Enjoy the free lunch while you can. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________
Robert What you is pertinent and present. There is already a defacto pecking order within the ecosystem hence the reason why we must try as much as possible not to add more 'control' within the system in the form of government. At least with a defacto situation one is able to maneuver around. In this respect the current discussions on ITRs are very pertinent and relevant. Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Nov 14, 2012, at 3:32 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
This question was never discussed exhaustively and neither was an answer given yet every day this question remains unanswered we move closer to the edge of an abyss.
The extract below is from an article, http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/11/gmail-location-data-petraeus/, on the resignation of the head of the CIA as a result of a friendly request from a friend on the FBI, it is interesting to know that even in the USA who you know makes a lot of difference in how the authorities treat a threat.
"The e-mail provider and search giant releases a so-called Transparency Report every six months, to provide users with generic statistics about government requests for data and takedowns. The last 2011 report showed that U.S. government agencies sought user data from Google 6,321 times for the six months ending December 2011, which was up from 5,950 during the first six months of 2011. The requests targeted 12,243 Google accounts in the latter half of that year, and 11,057 in the six months prior."
Google provides services to users across different countries and continents but from the statement above since the data sits in the USA then its access is governed by the law's of that jurisdiction know you understand why google will never put up a data center in Kenya and mPesa is not coming home unlike Zack.
It is now clear who owns the Internet and one of this days the owners will restrict access to certain regions because of flimsy issues like that the fellow is bald and he types funny.
Enjoy the free lunch while you can.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hi all, WCIT is just a few days away. Is Kenya still supporting the AfCPs, or the latest media reports : http://www.biztechafrica.com/article/kenya-oppose-review-internet-rules/4822... -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Wambua, Christopher <Wambua@cck.go.ke> wrote:
Listers,
I am pleased to inform you that we have uploaded the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) agreed upon in Ghana onto the CCK website. The AfCPs are available at http://www.cck.go.ke/links/consultations/current_consultations/African_C ommon_Proposals_the_ITRs_Rev.pdf
As already communicated by my colleagues, CCK shall host a stakeholders meeting on 13th November 2012 to share the proposals or Kenya's position on ITRs and collect comments/input on the same from the industry and other interested parties.
The venue of the stakeholders meeting shall be communicated in the course of the week. We look forward to receiving substantive comments on the ITRs ahead of the stakeholders meeting.
Best regards,
Christopher Wambua Manager/Communications Consumer and Public Affairs Division Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448, NAIROBI 00800 KENYA
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+wambua=cck.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of alice@apc.org Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 3:40 PM To: Wambua, Christopher Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Dear all
I agree with Omo. Is it possible to provide/discuss substantive comments to the current proposals for revisions of ITRs to assist the CCK finalize on developing a national position.
However, I can also understand why some stakeholder are not able to contribute. It would have been good, in retrospect to have organized a session to dymystify the ITRs and the discuss the merits/demerits of the current proposals.
Apologies for adding to the noise rather than contributing substantively.
best Alice
Thanks Nd Kivuva. Somehow, I didn't receive Nd Ali's response to mine which you seem to have responded to and for which I thank you.
CCK had posted the AfCPs inviting views in order to prepare for the Ghana meeting and also the meeting in Dubai. We indicated that we subscribed to the same, having contributed to their development. There was also a request that we study Proposals from other Regions. Further, there was a promise then, and still is, that CCK would convene a meeting of Stakeholders before the meeting in Dubai. Giving or taking credit for pushing Government on its views on ITRs is inappropriate when the initiative was itself from Government/CCK.
To date, much of what I hear is not on substantive input, either on the AfCPs or Proposals from other Regions, but clamour for a Stakeholders' meeting or posting such as "thanks for a promise of a breakfast meeting" or 'pushing Gov't on its views'! We are a growing to be a society more comfortable attending workshops/breakfast meetings rather than the actual 'on the table work.' Let me reiterate that the rubber will meet the road, not in the fact that CCK has organised a Stake holder's workshop, but in a delegation that has prepared its docs, read the meeting docs/docs from other Regions and prepared to present reasoned arguments.
Even as we hail the promise of a breakfast meeting or giving credit for pushing Gov't, please let us read the postings and offer substantive comments. It would help if the local Secretariat can prepare documentation for the workshop/breakfast meeting based on views presented apriori. As mentioned earlier, the official report of Ghana is out and should be posted either today or tomorrow.
Kind rgds.
OMO, John, Commission Secretary, Communications Commission of Kenya, P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800. Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348 "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr.
________________________________
From: kictanet on behalf of Kivuva Sent: Sun 11/4/2012 18:42 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Thank you Ali for pushing for a government position on ITRs. When there is silence it means that 1. The government is playing their position like a secret card that should not be shown in public. 2. We don't have a position. 3. We don't understand what is being discussed.
Thanks Dr. Ndemo for the hint of a breakfast meeting to clear the air.
Regards
Ndugu Omo
Thanks for your note. I had actually refrained from posting any comments because of the Ghana meeting. In retrospect may be I should have irrespective of the Ghana meeting.
I must say that this kind of discourse is definitely helpful and goes a long way in calming the waters.
I look forward to the stakeholders meeting in the 13th Nov.
Regards
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 4, 2012, at 9:06 AM, "Omo, John" <Omo@cck.go.ke> wrote:
Noted and thanks Nd Ali.
We had posted a draft of the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) amending the ITRs. The AfCPs were the culmination of two preparatory meetings by Stakeholders held in Cairo and Durban. Our request was that Kenyan Stakeholders study and forward comments on the same to assist in our preparations for the preparatory meeting held in Ghana and also for a Kenyan Stakeholders meeting before the Dubai meeting. I remember getting indications that you'd study the same and revert with your comments. We are still waiting.
The way this works is this: in order to have better use of time at Conferences, stakeholders are encouraged develop proposals common to their regions. Of course Member States, being sovereign, can submit their individual proposals separate from and even in opposition to their Regions (See a number of US proposals or common to both the US and Canada,
are different from those of CITEL to which both countries are a member). But it is better that views that are similar to a region or inter-region/s are submitted and discussed as common proposals. That hastens consensus building and saves on time at the Conference. We had indicated that our views as a country was pretty much a long the proposed AfCPs to which we have contributed.
The official outcome of the Ghana meeting is now out and has some improvements to the Durban draft. We are uploading the same early
week, again with a request to Stakeholders submit substantive comments that would aid in either endorsing/not endorsing the same. The proposals will still be debated strenuously at the Conference which will take decisions largely by way of consensus. Please, please let us study
draft proposals including those from other Regions - that is where
On 04/11/2012, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: that this the the
rubber will meet the road in Dubai. Tentatively, we plan to have a local stakeholders meeting on the 13th Nov.
With kind rgds. OMO, John Commission Secretary Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800 Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348
"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr.
From: kictanet on behalf of Ali Hussein Sent: Sat 11/3/2012 09:17 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Chip
Thanks for the clarifications and updates.
Listers
I hate to bring this issue up again but should the utter and complete silence from the CCK on our country position raise red flags?
Bwana DG Wangusi with all due respect to your good offices can we have some sort of statement on this issue? I believe it is critically important that we do know and I honestly believe that whatever that position is (whether it emanates from the IGF deliberations or not) it should now be made public. We are less than two months away from WCIT Dubai.
Regards
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 3:07 AM, "Chip Sharp (chsharp)" <chsharp@cisco.com> wrote:
I'm sorry I'm late to this conversation, but I wanted to point out a few things.
The only proposals for revision of the ITRs that will be considered at the WCIT are from Member States or Regional groups (e.g., ATU, CEPT).
This means there are no ITU proposals to the WCIT. So where the article says "ITU proposal" it should say "country or regional proposal".
It also means there is no ETNO proposal to the WCIT. The text ETNO have proposed must be submitted by a country or region or it won't be considered.
The proposals that have been made public are not officially to be considered at WCIT. The countries or regions must submit their proposals (again) directly to the WCIT. These country proposals to the WCIT can be different from what has been made public. After reviewing the current submissions to WCIT I can say that some are different from what the same country or region proposed in the public document. A few of the differences are important. So ITU would need to make TD-1 and its revisions public to keep people informed as to the actual proposals into WCIT.
ATU proposals are not yet available on the ITU website.
Chip **Disclaimer: these are my opinions and not those of Cisco or the US del.***
On Oct 18, 2012, at 6:49 AM, "George Nyabuga" <george@afrinic.net> wrote:
An interesting article in The Guardian, quoting, among others, our own Alice Munyua. But what the listers make of it?
See article at:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/17/who-rules-internet?CMP= twt_gu
George
Dr George Nyabuga Tel: +230 403 51 00 Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC Fax: +230 466 67
58
george@afrinic.net - www.afrinic.net
----------------------------
Join us at AFRINIC-17 for our Public Policy Meeting in Khartoum, Sudan, on 24 - 29 November 2012
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for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
McTim Several stakeholders made submissions to CCK on the AfCPs where we expressed strong reservations to CCKs support of the AfCPs. Our submissions were taken into consideration in the final report on the stakeholders meeting held n the 13th of November. There will be a briefing on this on the eve of WCIT Dubai so I do hope this will be shared online. Regards Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Nov 30, 2012, at 10:42 PM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
WCIT is just a few days away. Is Kenya still supporting the AfCPs, or the latest media reports :
http://www.biztechafrica.com/article/kenya-oppose-review-internet-rules/4822...
-- Cheers,
McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Wambua, Christopher <Wambua@cck.go.ke> wrote:
Listers,
I am pleased to inform you that we have uploaded the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) agreed upon in Ghana onto the CCK website. The AfCPs are available at http://www.cck.go.ke/links/consultations/current_consultations/African_C ommon_Proposals_the_ITRs_Rev.pdf
As already communicated by my colleagues, CCK shall host a stakeholders meeting on 13th November 2012 to share the proposals or Kenya's position on ITRs and collect comments/input on the same from the industry and other interested parties.
The venue of the stakeholders meeting shall be communicated in the course of the week. We look forward to receiving substantive comments on the ITRs ahead of the stakeholders meeting.
Best regards,
Christopher Wambua Manager/Communications Consumer and Public Affairs Division Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448, NAIROBI 00800 KENYA
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+wambua=cck.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of alice@apc.org Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 3:40 PM To: Wambua, Christopher Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Dear all
I agree with Omo. Is it possible to provide/discuss substantive comments to the current proposals for revisions of ITRs to assist the CCK finalize on developing a national position.
However, I can also understand why some stakeholder are not able to contribute. It would have been good, in retrospect to have organized a session to dymystify the ITRs and the discuss the merits/demerits of the current proposals.
Apologies for adding to the noise rather than contributing substantively.
best Alice
Thanks Nd Kivuva. Somehow, I didn't receive Nd Ali's response to mine which you seem to have responded to and for which I thank you.
CCK had posted the AfCPs inviting views in order to prepare for the Ghana meeting and also the meeting in Dubai. We indicated that we subscribed to the same, having contributed to their development. There was also a request that we study Proposals from other Regions. Further, there was a promise then, and still is, that CCK would convene a meeting of Stakeholders before the meeting in Dubai. Giving or taking credit for pushing Government on its views on ITRs is inappropriate when the initiative was itself from Government/CCK.
To date, much of what I hear is not on substantive input, either on the AfCPs or Proposals from other Regions, but clamour for a Stakeholders' meeting or posting such as "thanks for a promise of a breakfast meeting" or 'pushing Gov't on its views'! We are a growing to be a society more comfortable attending workshops/breakfast meetings rather than the actual 'on the table work.' Let me reiterate that the rubber will meet the road, not in the fact that CCK has organised a Stake holder's workshop, but in a delegation that has prepared its docs, read the meeting docs/docs from other Regions and prepared to present reasoned arguments.
Even as we hail the promise of a breakfast meeting or giving credit for pushing Gov't, please let us read the postings and offer substantive comments. It would help if the local Secretariat can prepare documentation for the workshop/breakfast meeting based on views presented apriori. As mentioned earlier, the official report of Ghana is out and should be posted either today or tomorrow.
Kind rgds.
OMO, John, Commission Secretary, Communications Commission of Kenya, P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800. Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348 "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr.
________________________________
From: kictanet on behalf of Kivuva Sent: Sun 11/4/2012 18:42 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Thank you Ali for pushing for a government position on ITRs. When there is silence it means that 1. The government is playing their position like a secret card that should not be shown in public. 2. We don't have a position. 3. We don't understand what is being discussed.
Thanks Dr. Ndemo for the hint of a breakfast meeting to clear the air.
Regards
Ndugu Omo
Thanks for your note. I had actually refrained from posting any comments because of the Ghana meeting. In retrospect may be I should have irrespective of the Ghana meeting.
I must say that this kind of discourse is definitely helpful and goes a long way in calming the waters.
I look forward to the stakeholders meeting in the 13th Nov.
Regards
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 4, 2012, at 9:06 AM, "Omo, John" <Omo@cck.go.ke> wrote:
Noted and thanks Nd Ali.
We had posted a draft of the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) amending the ITRs. The AfCPs were the culmination of two preparatory meetings by Stakeholders held in Cairo and Durban. Our request was that Kenyan Stakeholders study and forward comments on the same to assist in our preparations for the preparatory meeting held in Ghana and also for a Kenyan Stakeholders meeting before the Dubai meeting. I remember getting indications that you'd study the same and revert with your comments. We are still waiting.
The way this works is this: in order to have better use of time at Conferences, stakeholders are encouraged develop proposals common to their regions. Of course Member States, being sovereign, can submit their individual proposals separate from and even in opposition to their Regions (See a number of US proposals or common to both the US and Canada,
are different from those of CITEL to which both countries are a member). But it is better that views that are similar to a region or inter-region/s are submitted and discussed as common proposals. That hastens consensus building and saves on time at the Conference. We had indicated that our views as a country was pretty much a long the proposed AfCPs to which we have contributed.
The official outcome of the Ghana meeting is now out and has some improvements to the Durban draft. We are uploading the same early
week, again with a request to Stakeholders submit substantive comments that would aid in either endorsing/not endorsing the same. The proposals will still be debated strenuously at the Conference which will take decisions largely by way of consensus. Please, please let us study
draft proposals including those from other Regions - that is where
On 04/11/2012, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: that this the the
rubber will meet the road in Dubai. Tentatively, we plan to have a local stakeholders meeting on the 13th Nov.
With kind rgds. OMO, John Commission Secretary Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800 Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348
"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr.
From: kictanet on behalf of Ali Hussein Sent: Sat 11/3/2012 09:17 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Chip
Thanks for the clarifications and updates.
Listers
I hate to bring this issue up again but should the utter and complete silence from the CCK on our country position raise red flags?
Bwana DG Wangusi with all due respect to your good offices can we have some sort of statement on this issue? I believe it is critically important that we do know and I honestly believe that whatever that position is (whether it emanates from the IGF deliberations or not) it should now be made public. We are less than two months away from WCIT Dubai.
Regards
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 3:07 AM, "Chip Sharp (chsharp)" <chsharp@cisco.com> wrote:
I'm sorry I'm late to this conversation, but I wanted to point out a few things.
The only proposals for revision of the ITRs that will be considered at the WCIT are from Member States or Regional groups (e.g., ATU, CEPT).
This means there are no ITU proposals to the WCIT. So where the article says "ITU proposal" it should say "country or regional proposal".
It also means there is no ETNO proposal to the WCIT. The text ETNO have proposed must be submitted by a country or region or it won't be considered.
The proposals that have been made public are not officially to be considered at WCIT. The countries or regions must submit their proposals (again) directly to the WCIT. These country proposals to the WCIT can be different from what has been made public. After reviewing the current submissions to WCIT I can say that some are different from what the same country or region proposed in the public document. A few of the differences are important. So ITU would need to make TD-1 and its revisions public to keep people informed as to the actual proposals into WCIT.
ATU proposals are not yet available on the ITU website.
Chip **Disclaimer: these are my opinions and not those of Cisco or the US del.***
On Oct 18, 2012, at 6:49 AM, "George Nyabuga" <george@afrinic.net> wrote:
> An interesting article in The Guardian, quoting, among others, our > own > Alice Munyua. But what the listers make of it? > > See article at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/17/who-rules-internet?CMP= twt_gu > > George > > > Dr George Nyabuga > Tel: > +230 403 51 00 > Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC Fax: +230 466 67 58 > george@afrinic.net - www.afrinic.net
----------------------------
> Join us at AFRINIC-17 for our Public Policy Meeting in Khartoum, > Sudan, > on 24 - 29 November 2012
> _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chsharp%40cisco.co m > > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder > platform > for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and > regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in
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---------------------------- the platform platform
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Dear All, The WTSA, which sets the work program for the Telecommunication Standardization Sector (ITU-T) ended on 29th November, paving way for the WCIT. The Plenipotentiary Conference 2010 instructed the ITU Secretary General to organize the conference, to capture the tremendous changes and transformation that have taken place in the ICT sector. The last conference was held in Melbourne, Australia, in 1988. Consequently, the ITU Council set up a working group to spearhead the process. The ITU-T Director has been the one organizing the process since the bulk of the substantive issues of the conference are related to standardization. Certainly, the outcome of the conference will be a product of a negotiated settlement, based on a lot of give and take. The most controversial subjects revolve around the role of governments in the purview of the Internet. Transparency, security,international accounting and settlement, fair compensation, spam, numbering and freedom, among others, are some of the topics that will come under intense global scrutiny in the next two weeks. One school of thought advocates for the Internet to continue evolving on what is perceived to be an open, multi -stakeholder environment, while the other strongly feels that governments must have a role in the setting of rules governing the management of the resources that facilitate the evolution of the Internet, while allowing commercial entities, the freedom to freely negotiate. Network operators, buoyed by a number of national governments, are pushing for the recognition of not only the role they play in facilitating the delivery of content, but also for "fair" compensation for the use of their infrastructure in order to sustainably continue investing in the requisite facilities on which the net and its related services ride. Subjects such as fraud and internet security, which have become more and more complex will also be haggled upon vigorously. Content developers, advertisers, network operators, civili society, national governments, content sellers, bloggers, etc are pushing positions motivated by diverse persuasions. At the heart of the various divergent positions being put forward are deep-seated national, regional, and private strategic and economic interests. While some countries are clear on what they want, some may not be fully aware of the long-term consequences of the positions they may wish to take. Intense lobbying, innuendo, back-stabbing, misrepresentation, and pre-negotiations have been going on. Nevertheless, after the intense debates, the final product of WCIT will be a balance between and among the various positions. The ITU has come under intense pressure over the last few months and has been accused of habouring intentions of venturing into a domain it has no competence in and has been asked to focus on the arena of telecommunications. In its defence, the Union has insisted that, as a Member State based UN agency, it can only pursue an agenda put forward by its stakeholders and that it has no agenda of its own. The jury is still out but the truth will emerge once the veil is removed. The above notwithstanding, it's extremely important that we come to the conference with more than one strategies with the willingness for give and take, as long as we stay within the reasonable confines of our national interests. Countries are looking at the bigger longer-term picture based on regional and global interests. Countries pushing the freedom card must be aware that while the ethos of freedom are sacrosanct, there is no national edict that commands extra-territorial application and that a reasonable balance will have to be struck between and among many delicate interests. I can bet that even those countries that hold strong divergent positions have been engaging in prior negotiations to facilitate the spirit of consensus and compromise. It is within the foregoing context that we have to view the AfCPs; they constitute a position meant to facilitate positive engagement and compromise, bearing in mind the reality that no single position will, and can dictate the outcomes of the conference. These are negotiations folks, not a war of bravado and brinksmanship; it's not a contest between progress and anarchy. Remember, it has taken twenty four years to agree on a negotiation platform. Certainly, there has been winners and losers over this long period, and hence the need for a conference to streamline the operational and regulatory framework. There might be minimum changes, extensive changes, moderate changes or no change at all, respectively. We must defend our national position, whatever it might be, with facts, conviction and clarity, while respecting the right of others to hold different positions. The focus, folks, must be the bigger picture, informed by our carefully evaluated interests and the need to build beneficial alliances to the nation state. I repeat, nations have no friends, nations have interests. Bon voyage to those traveling to Dubai and Best Regards. Sent from my iPad On Dec 1, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
McTim
Several stakeholders made submissions to CCK on the AfCPs where we expressed strong reservations to CCKs support of the AfCPs. Our submissions were taken into consideration in the final report on the stakeholders meeting held n the 13th of November.
There will be a briefing on this on the eve of WCIT Dubai so I do hope this will be shared online.
Regards
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 30, 2012, at 10:42 PM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
WCIT is just a few days away. Is Kenya still supporting the AfCPs, or the latest media reports :
http://www.biztechafrica.com/article/kenya-oppose-review-internet-rules/4822...
-- Cheers,
McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Wambua, Christopher <Wambua@cck.go.ke> wrote:
Listers,
I am pleased to inform you that we have uploaded the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) agreed upon in Ghana onto the CCK website. The AfCPs are available at http://www.cck.go.ke/links/consultations/current_consultations/African_C ommon_Proposals_the_ITRs_Rev.pdf
As already communicated by my colleagues, CCK shall host a stakeholders meeting on 13th November 2012 to share the proposals or Kenya's position on ITRs and collect comments/input on the same from the industry and other interested parties.
The venue of the stakeholders meeting shall be communicated in the course of the week. We look forward to receiving substantive comments on the ITRs ahead of the stakeholders meeting.
Best regards,
Christopher Wambua Manager/Communications Consumer and Public Affairs Division Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448, NAIROBI 00800 KENYA
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+wambua=cck.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of alice@apc.org Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 3:40 PM To: Wambua, Christopher Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Dear all
I agree with Omo. Is it possible to provide/discuss substantive comments to the current proposals for revisions of ITRs to assist the CCK finalize on developing a national position.
However, I can also understand why some stakeholder are not able to contribute. It would have been good, in retrospect to have organized a session to dymystify the ITRs and the discuss the merits/demerits of the current proposals.
Apologies for adding to the noise rather than contributing substantively.
best Alice
Thanks Nd Kivuva. Somehow, I didn't receive Nd Ali's response to mine which you seem to have responded to and for which I thank you.
CCK had posted the AfCPs inviting views in order to prepare for the Ghana meeting and also the meeting in Dubai. We indicated that we subscribed to the same, having contributed to their development. There was also a request that we study Proposals from other Regions. Further, there was a promise then, and still is, that CCK would convene a meeting of Stakeholders before the meeting in Dubai. Giving or taking credit for pushing Government on its views on ITRs is inappropriate when the initiative was itself from Government/CCK.
To date, much of what I hear is not on substantive input, either on the AfCPs or Proposals from other Regions, but clamour for a Stakeholders' meeting or posting such as "thanks for a promise of a breakfast meeting" or 'pushing Gov't on its views'! We are a growing to be a society more comfortable attending workshops/breakfast meetings rather than the actual 'on the table work.' Let me reiterate that the rubber will meet the road, not in the fact that CCK has organised a Stake holder's workshop, but in a delegation that has prepared its docs, read the meeting docs/docs from other Regions and prepared to present reasoned arguments.
Even as we hail the promise of a breakfast meeting or giving credit for pushing Gov't, please let us read the postings and offer substantive comments. It would help if the local Secretariat can prepare documentation for the workshop/breakfast meeting based on views presented apriori. As mentioned earlier, the official report of Ghana is out and should be posted either today or tomorrow.
Kind rgds.
OMO, John, Commission Secretary, Communications Commission of Kenya, P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800. Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348 "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr.
________________________________
From: kictanet on behalf of Kivuva Sent: Sun 11/4/2012 18:42 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Thank you Ali for pushing for a government position on ITRs. When there is silence it means that 1. The government is playing their position like a secret card that should not be shown in public. 2. We don't have a position. 3. We don't understand what is being discussed.
Thanks Dr. Ndemo for the hint of a breakfast meeting to clear the air.
Regards
Ndugu Omo
Thanks for your note. I had actually refrained from posting any comments because of the Ghana meeting. In retrospect may be I should have irrespective of the Ghana meeting.
I must say that this kind of discourse is definitely helpful and goes a long way in calming the waters.
I look forward to the stakeholders meeting in the 13th Nov.
Regards
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 4, 2012, at 9:06 AM, "Omo, John" <Omo@cck.go.ke> wrote:
Noted and thanks Nd Ali.
We had posted a draft of the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) amending the ITRs. The AfCPs were the culmination of two preparatory meetings by Stakeholders held in Cairo and Durban. Our request was that Kenyan Stakeholders study and forward comments on the same to assist in our preparations for the preparatory meeting held in Ghana and also for a Kenyan Stakeholders meeting before the Dubai meeting. I remember getting indications that you'd study the same and revert with your comments. We are still waiting.
The way this works is this: in order to have better use of time at Conferences, stakeholders are encouraged develop proposals common to their regions. Of course Member States, being sovereign, can submit their individual proposals separate from and even in opposition to their Regions (See a number of US proposals or common to both the US and Canada,
are different from those of CITEL to which both countries are a member). But it is better that views that are similar to a region or inter-region/s are submitted and discussed as common proposals. That hastens consensus building and saves on time at the Conference. We had indicated that our views as a country was pretty much a long the proposed AfCPs to which we have contributed.
The official outcome of the Ghana meeting is now out and has some improvements to the Durban draft. We are uploading the same early
week, again with a request to Stakeholders submit substantive comments that would aid in either endorsing/not endorsing the same. The proposals will still be debated strenuously at the Conference which will take decisions largely by way of consensus. Please, please let us study
draft proposals including those from other Regions - that is where
On 04/11/2012, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: that this the the
rubber will meet the road in Dubai. Tentatively, we plan to have a local stakeholders meeting on the 13th Nov.
With kind rgds. OMO, John Commission Secretary Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800 Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348
"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr.
From: kictanet on behalf of Ali Hussein Sent: Sat 11/3/2012 09:17 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Chip
Thanks for the clarifications and updates.
Listers
I hate to bring this issue up again but should the utter and complete silence from the CCK on our country position raise red flags?
Bwana DG Wangusi with all due respect to your good offices can we have some sort of statement on this issue? I believe it is critically important that we do know and I honestly believe that whatever that position is (whether it emanates from the IGF deliberations or not) it should now be made public. We are less than two months away from WCIT Dubai.
Regards
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 3:07 AM, "Chip Sharp (chsharp)" <chsharp@cisco.com> wrote:
> I'm sorry I'm late to this conversation, but I wanted to point out a > few > things. > > The only proposals for revision of the ITRs that will be considered > at > the WCIT are from Member States or Regional groups (e.g., ATU, CEPT). > > This means there are no ITU proposals to the WCIT. So where the > article > says "ITU proposal" it should say "country or regional proposal". > > It also means there is no ETNO proposal to the WCIT. The text ETNO > have > proposed must be submitted by a country or region or it won't be > considered. > > The proposals that have been made public are not officially to be > considered at WCIT. The countries or regions must submit their > proposals > (again) directly to the WCIT. These country proposals to the WCIT can > be > different from what has been made public. After reviewing the current > submissions to WCIT I can say that some are different from what the > same > country or region proposed in the public document. A few of the > differences are important. So ITU would need to make TD-1 and its > revisions public to keep people informed as to the actual proposals > into > WCIT. > > ATU proposals are not yet available on the ITU website. > > Chip > **Disclaimer: these are my opinions and not those of Cisco or the US > del.*** > > On Oct 18, 2012, at 6:49 AM, "George Nyabuga" <george@afrinic.net> > wrote: > >> An interesting article in The Guardian, quoting, among others, our >> own >> Alice Munyua. But what the listers make of it? >> >> See article at: >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/17/who-rules-internet?CMP= twt_gu >> >> George >> >> >> Dr George Nyabuga >> Tel: >> +230 403 51 00 >> Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC Fax: +230 466 67 58 >> george@afrinic.net - www.afrinic.net >> >>
----------------------------
>> Join us at AFRINIC-17 for our Public Policy Meeting in Khartoum, >> Sudan, >> on 24 - 29 November 2012 >>
>> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at >> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chsharp%40cisco.co m >> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder >> platform >> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in
>> ICT >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and >> development. >> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable >> behaviors >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and >> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, >> respect >> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein. com > > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder > platform > for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and > regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the > ICT > sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and > development. > > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors > online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and > bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, > respect > privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva For Business Development Transworld Computer Channels Cel: 0722402248 twitter.com/lordmwesh transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know
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NdaroThank you for the heads up. Your message though coming in the wake of the WCIT tomorrow has just reminded me that we are yet to see what Kenya is taking to the meeting. Can CCK please share the position? We need to see what is being taken to the negotiating table before we can conclude or even caution on what stand to take. Kind RegardsGrace From: mtnndaro@yahoo.co.uk Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 15:36:48 +0400 Subject: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS CC: Kandie@cck.go.ke; CPA@cck.go.ke; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com Dear All, The WTSA, which sets the work program for the Telecommunication Standardization Sector (ITU-T) ended on 29th November, paving way for the WCIT. The Plenipotentiary Conference 2010 instructed the ITU Secretary General to organize the conference, to capture the tremendous changes and transformation that have taken place in the ICT sector. The last conference was held in Melbourne, Australia, in 1988. Consequently, the ITU Council set up a working group to spearhead the process. The ITU-T Director has been the one organizing the process since the bulk of the substantive issues of the conference are related to standardization. Certainly, the outcome of the conference will be a product of a negotiated settlement, based on a lot of give and take. The most controversial subjects revolve around the role of governments in the purview of the Internet. Transparency, security,international accounting and settlement, fair compensation, spam, numbering and freedom, among others, are some of the topics that will come under intense global scrutiny in the next two weeks. One school of thought advocates for the Internet to continue evolving on what is perceived to be an open, multi -stakeholder environment, while the other strongly feels that governments must have a role in the setting of rules governing the management of the resources that facilitate the evolution of the Internet, while allowing commercial entities, the freedom to freely negotiate. Network operators, buoyed by a number of national governments, are pushing for the recognition of not only the role they play in facilitating the delivery of content, but also for "fair" compensation for the use of their infrastructure in order to sustainably continue investing in the requisite facilities on which the net and its related services ride. Subjects such as fraud and internet security, which have become more and more complex will also be haggled upon vigorously. Content developers, advertisers, network operators, civili society, national governments, content sellers, bloggers, etc are pushing positions motivated by diverse persuasions. At the heart of the various divergent positions being put forward are deep-seated national, regional, and private strategic and economic interests. While some countries are clear on what they want, some may not be fully aware of the long-term consequences of the positions they may wish to take. Intense lobbying, innuendo, back-stabbing, misrepresentation, and pre-negotiations have been going on. Nevertheless, after the intense debates, the final product of WCIT will be a balance between and among the various positions. The ITU has come under intense pressure over the last few months and has been accused of habouring intentions of venturing into a domain it has no competence in and has been asked to focus on the arena of telecommunications. In its defence, the Union has insisted that, as a Member State based UN agency, it can only pursue an agenda put forward by its stakeholders and that it has no agenda of its own. The jury is still out but the truth will emerge once the veil is removed. The above notwithstanding, it's extremely important that we come to the conference with more than one strategies with the willingness for give and take, as long as we stay within the reasonable confines of our national interests. Countries are looking at the bigger longer-term picture based on regional and global interests. Countries pushing the freedom card must be aware that while the ethos of freedom are sacrosanct, there is no national edict that commands extra-territorial application and that a reasonable balance will have to be struck between and among many delicate interests. I can bet that even those countries that hold strong divergent positions have been engaging in prior negotiations to facilitate the spirit of consensus and compromise. It is within the foregoing context that we have to view the AfCPs; they constitute a position meant to facilitate positive engagement and compromise, bearing in mind the reality that no single position will, and can dictate the outcomes of the conference. These are negotiations folks, not a war of bravado and brinksmanship; it's not a contest between progress and anarchy. Remember, it has taken twenty four years to agree on a negotiation platform. Certainly, there has been winners and losers over this long period, and hence the need for a conference to streamline the operational and regulatory framework. There might be minimum changes, extensive changes, moderate changes or no change at all, respectively. We must defend our national position, whatever it might be, with facts, conviction and clarity, while respecting the right of others to hold different positions. The focus, folks, must be the bigger picture, informed by our carefully evaluated interests and the need to build beneficial alliances to the nation state. I repeat, nations have no friends, nations have interests. Bon voyage to those traveling to Dubai and Best Regards. Sent from my iPad On Dec 1, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: McTim Several stakeholders made submissions to CCK on the AfCPs where we expressed strong reservations to CCKs support of the AfCPs. Our submissions were taken into consideration in the final report on the stakeholders meeting held n the 13th of November. There will be a briefing on this on the eve of WCIT Dubai so I do hope this will be shared online. Regards Ali HusseinCEO | 3mice interactive media LtdPrincipal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Nov 30, 2012, at 10:42 PM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: Hi all, WCIT is just a few days away. Is Kenya still supporting the AfCPs, or the latest media reports : http://www.biztechafrica.com/article/kenya-oppose-review-internet-rules/4822... -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Wambua, Christopher <Wambua@cck.go.ke> wrote: Listers, I am pleased to inform you that we have uploaded the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) agreed upon in Ghana onto the CCK website. The AfCPs are available at http://www.cck.go.ke/links/consultations/current_consultations/African_C ommon_Proposals_the_ITRs_Rev.pdf As already communicated by my colleagues, CCK shall host a stakeholders meeting on 13th November 2012 to share the proposals or Kenya's position on ITRs and collect comments/input on the same from the industry and other interested parties. The venue of the stakeholders meeting shall be communicated in the course of the week. We look forward to receiving substantive comments on the ITRs ahead of the stakeholders meeting. Best regards, Christopher Wambua Manager/Communications Consumer and Public Affairs Division Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448, NAIROBI 00800 KENYA -----Original Message----- From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+wambua=cck.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of alice@apc.org Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 3:40 PM To: Wambua, Christopher Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? Dear all I agree with Omo. Is it possible to provide/discuss substantive comments to the current proposals for revisions of ITRs to assist the CCK finalize on developing a national position. However, I can also understand why some stakeholder are not able to contribute. It would have been good, in retrospect to have organized a session to dymystify the ITRs and the discuss the merits/demerits of the current proposals. Apologies for adding to the noise rather than contributing substantively. best Alice Thanks Nd Kivuva. Somehow, I didn't receive Nd Ali's response to mine which you seem to have responded to and for which I thank you. CCK had posted the AfCPs inviting views in order to prepare for the Ghana meeting and also the meeting in Dubai. We indicated that we subscribed to the same, having contributed to their development. There was also a request that we study Proposals from other Regions. Further, there was a promise then, and still is, that CCK would convene a meeting of Stakeholders before the meeting in Dubai. Giving or taking credit for pushing Government on its views on ITRs is inappropriate when the initiative was itself from Government/CCK. To date, much of what I hear is not on substantive input, either on the AfCPs or Proposals from other Regions, but clamour for a Stakeholders' meeting or posting such as "thanks for a promise of a breakfast meeting" or 'pushing Gov't on its views'! We are a growing to be a society more comfortable attending workshops/breakfast meetings rather than the actual 'on the table work.' Let me reiterate that the rubber will meet the road, not in the fact that CCK has organised a Stake holder's workshop, but in a delegation that has prepared its docs, read the meeting docs/docs from other Regions and prepared to present reasoned arguments. Even as we hail the promise of a breakfast meeting or giving credit for pushing Gov't, please let us read the postings and offer substantive comments. It would help if the local Secretariat can prepare documentation for the workshop/breakfast meeting based on views presented apriori. As mentioned earlier, the official report of Ghana is out and should be posted either today or tomorrow. Kind rgds. OMO, John, Commission Secretary, Communications Commission of Kenya, P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800. Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348 "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr. ________________________________ From: kictanet on behalf of Kivuva Sent: Sun 11/4/2012 18:42 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? Thank you Ali for pushing for a government position on ITRs. When there is silence it means that 1. The government is playing their position like a secret card that should not be shown in public. 2. We don't have a position. 3. We don't understand what is being discussed. Thanks Dr. Ndemo for the hint of a breakfast meeting to clear the air. Regards On 04/11/2012, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Ndugu Omo Thanks for your note. I had actually refrained from posting any comments because of the Ghana meeting. In retrospect may be I should have irrespective of the Ghana meeting. I must say that this kind of discourse is definitely helpful and goes a long way in calming the waters. I look forward to the stakeholders meeting in the 13th Nov. Regards Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Nov 4, 2012, at 9:06 AM, "Omo, John" <Omo@cck.go.ke> wrote: Noted and thanks Nd Ali. We had posted a draft of the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) amending the ITRs. The AfCPs were the culmination of two preparatory meetings by Stakeholders held in Cairo and Durban. Our request was that Kenyan Stakeholders study and forward comments on the same to assist in our preparations for the preparatory meeting held in Ghana and also for a Kenyan Stakeholders meeting before the Dubai meeting. I remember getting indications that you'd study the same and revert with your comments. We are still waiting. The way this works is this: in order to have better use of time at Conferences, stakeholders are encouraged develop proposals common to their regions. Of course Member States, being sovereign, can submit their individual proposals separate from and even in opposition to their Regions (See a number of US proposals or common to both the US and Canada, that are different from those of CITEL to which both countries are a member). But it is better that views that are similar to a region or inter-region/s are submitted and discussed as common proposals. That hastens consensus building and saves on time at the Conference. We had indicated that our views as a country was pretty much a long the proposed AfCPs to which we have contributed. The official outcome of the Ghana meeting is now out and has some improvements to the Durban draft. We are uploading the same early this week, again with a request to Stakeholders submit substantive comments that would aid in either endorsing/not endorsing the same. The proposals will still be debated strenuously at the Conference which will take decisions largely by way of consensus. Please, please let us study the draft proposals including those from other Regions - that is where the rubber will meet the road in Dubai. Tentatively, we plan to have a local stakeholders meeting on the 13th Nov. With kind rgds. OMO, John Commission Secretary Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800 Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348 "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr. From: kictanet on behalf of Ali Hussein Sent: Sat 11/3/2012 09:17 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? Chip Thanks for the clarifications and updates. Listers I hate to bring this issue up again but should the utter and complete silence from the CCK on our country position raise red flags? Bwana DG Wangusi with all due respect to your good offices can we have some sort of statement on this issue? I believe it is critically important that we do know and I honestly believe that whatever that position is (whether it emanates from the IGF deliberations or not) it should now be made public. We are less than two months away from WCIT Dubai. Regards Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Nov 3, 2012, at 3:07 AM, "Chip Sharp (chsharp)" <chsharp@cisco.com> wrote: I'm sorry I'm late to this conversation, but I wanted to point out a few things. The only proposals for revision of the ITRs that will be considered at the WCIT are from Member States or Regional groups (e.g., ATU, CEPT). This means there are no ITU proposals to the WCIT. So where the article says "ITU proposal" it should say "country or regional proposal". It also means there is no ETNO proposal to the WCIT. The text ETNO have proposed must be submitted by a country or region or it won't be considered. The proposals that have been made public are not officially to be considered at WCIT. The countries or regions must submit their proposals (again) directly to the WCIT. These country proposals to the WCIT can be different from what has been made public. After reviewing the current submissions to WCIT I can say that some are different from what the same country or region proposed in the public document. A few of the differences are important. So ITU would need to make TD-1 and its revisions public to keep people informed as to the actual proposals into WCIT. ATU proposals are not yet available on the ITU website. Chip **Disclaimer: these are my opinions and not those of Cisco or the US del.*** On Oct 18, 2012, at 6:49 AM, "George Nyabuga" <george@afrinic.net> wrote: An interesting article in The Guardian, quoting, among others, our own Alice Munyua. But what the listers make of it? See article at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/17/who-rules-internet?CMP= twt_gu George Dr George Nyabuga Tel: +230 403 51 00 Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC Fax: +230 466 67 58 george@afrinic.net - www.afrinic.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------- Join us at AFRINIC-17 for our Public Policy Meeting in Khartoum, Sudan, on 24 - 29 November 2012 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chsharp%40cisco.co m The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein. com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva For Business Development Transworld Computer Channels Cel: 0722402248 twitter.com/lordmwesh transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/omo%40cck.go.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alice%40apc.org The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wambua%40cck.go.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dogwallah%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mtnndaro%40yahoo.co.uk The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
We are meeting at 630pm today at Meeting Rm J at the Dubai Convention Centre to discuss this. Please avail yourselves. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 11:52:29 To: <mtnndaro@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: <kandie@cck.go.ke>; <cpa@cck.go.ke>; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: RE: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS NdaroThank you for the heads up. Your message though coming in the wake of the WCIT tomorrow has just reminded me that we are yet to see what Kenya is taking to the meeting. Can CCK please share the position? We need to see what is being taken to the negotiating table before we can conclude or even caution on what stand to take. Kind RegardsGrace From: mtnndaro@yahoo.co.uk Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 15:36:48 +0400 Subject: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS CC: Kandie@cck.go.ke; CPA@cck.go.ke; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com Dear All, The WTSA, which sets the work program for the Telecommunication Standardization Sector (ITU-T) ended on 29th November, paving way for the WCIT. The Plenipotentiary Conference 2010 instructed the ITU Secretary General to organize the conference, to capture the tremendous changes and transformation that have taken place in the ICT sector. The last conference was held in Melbourne, Australia, in 1988. Consequently, the ITU Council set up a working group to spearhead the process. The ITU-T Director has been the one organizing the process since the bulk of the substantive issues of the conference are related to standardization. Certainly, the outcome of the conference will be a product of a negotiated settlement, based on a lot of give and take. The most controversial subjects revolve around the role of governments in the purview of the Internet. Transparency, security,international accounting and settlement, fair compensation, spam, numbering and freedom, among others, are some of the topics that will come under intense global scrutiny in the next two weeks. One school of thought advocates for the Internet to continue evolving on what is perceived to be an open, multi -stakeholder environment, while the other strongly feels that governments must have a role in the setting of rules governing the management of the resources that facilitate the evolution of the Internet, while allowing commercial entities, the freedom to freely negotiate. Network operators, buoyed by a number of national governments, are pushing for the recognition of not only the role they play in facilitating the delivery of content, but also for "fair" compensation for the use of their infrastructure in order to sustainably continue investing in the requisite facilities on which the net and its related services ride. Subjects such as fraud and internet security, which have become more and more complex will also be haggled upon vigorously. Content developers, advertisers, network operators, civili society, national governments, content sellers, bloggers, etc are pushing positions motivated by diverse persuasions. At the heart of the various divergent positions being put forward are deep-seated national, regional, and private strategic and economic interests. While some countries are clear on what they want, some may not be fully aware of the long-term consequences of the positions they may wish to take. Intense lobbying, innuendo, back-stabbing, misrepresentation, and pre-negotiations have been going on. Nevertheless, after the intense debates, the final product of WCIT will be a balance between and among the various positions. The ITU has come under intense pressure over the last few months and has been accused of habouring intentions of venturing into a domain it has no competence in and has been asked to focus on the arena of telecommunications. In its defence, the Union has insisted that, as a Member State based UN agency, it can only pursue an agenda put forward by its stakeholders and that it has no agenda of its own. The jury is still out but the truth will emerge once the veil is removed. The above notwithstanding, it's extremely important that we come to the conference with more than one strategies with the willingness for give and take, as long as we stay within the reasonable confines of our national interests. Countries are looking at the bigger longer-term picture based on regional and global interests. Countries pushing the freedom card must be aware that while the ethos of freedom are sacrosanct, there is no national edict that commands extra-territorial application and that a reasonable balance will have to be struck between and among many delicate interests. I can bet that even those countries that hold strong divergent positions have been engaging in prior negotiations to facilitate the spirit of consensus and compromise. It is within the foregoing context that we have to view the AfCPs; they constitute a position meant to facilitate positive engagement and compromise, bearing in mind the reality that no single position will, and can dictate the outcomes of the conference. These are negotiations folks, not a war of bravado and brinksmanship; it's not a contest between progress and anarchy. Remember, it has taken twenty four years to agree on a negotiation platform. Certainly, there has been winners and losers over this long period, and hence the need for a conference to streamline the operational and regulatory framework. There might be minimum changes, extensive changes, moderate changes or no change at all, respectively. We must defend our national position, whatever it might be, with facts, conviction and clarity, while respecting the right of others to hold different positions. The focus, folks, must be the bigger picture, informed by our carefully evaluated interests and the need to build beneficial alliances to the nation state. I repeat, nations have no friends, nations have interests. Bon voyage to those traveling to Dubai and Best Regards. Sent from my iPad On Dec 1, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: McTim Several stakeholders made submissions to CCK on the AfCPs where we expressed strong reservations to CCKs support of the AfCPs. Our submissions were taken into consideration in the final report on the stakeholders meeting held n the 13th of November. There will be a briefing on this on the eve of WCIT Dubai so I do hope this will be shared online. Regards Ali HusseinCEO | 3mice interactive media LtdPrincipal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Nov 30, 2012, at 10:42 PM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: Hi all, WCIT is just a few days away. Is Kenya still supporting the AfCPs, or the latest media reports : http://www.biztechafrica.com/article/kenya-oppose-review-internet-rules/4822... -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Wambua, Christopher <Wambua@cck.go.ke> wrote: Listers, I am pleased to inform you that we have uploaded the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) agreed upon in Ghana onto the CCK website. The AfCPs are available at http://www.cck.go.ke/links/consultations/current_consultations/African_C ommon_Proposals_the_ITRs_Rev.pdf As already communicated by my colleagues, CCK shall host a stakeholders meeting on 13th November 2012 to share the proposals or Kenya's position on ITRs and collect comments/input on the same from the industry and other interested parties. The venue of the stakeholders meeting shall be communicated in the course of the week. We look forward to receiving substantive comments on the ITRs ahead of the stakeholders meeting. Best regards, Christopher Wambua Manager/Communications Consumer and Public Affairs Division Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448, NAIROBI 00800 KENYA -----Original Message----- From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+wambua=cck.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of alice@apc.org Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 3:40 PM To: Wambua, Christopher Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? Dear all I agree with Omo. Is it possible to provide/discuss substantive comments to the current proposals for revisions of ITRs to assist the CCK finalize on developing a national position. However, I can also understand why some stakeholder are not able to contribute. It would have been good, in retrospect to have organized a session to dymystify the ITRs and the discuss the merits/demerits of the current proposals. Apologies for adding to the noise rather than contributing substantively. best Alice Thanks Nd Kivuva. Somehow, I didn't receive Nd Ali's response to mine which you seem to have responded to and for which I thank you. CCK had posted the AfCPs inviting views in order to prepare for the Ghana meeting and also the meeting in Dubai. We indicated that we subscribed to the same, having contributed to their development. There was also a request that we study Proposals from other Regions. Further, there was a promise then, and still is, that CCK would convene a meeting of Stakeholders before the meeting in Dubai. Giving or taking credit for pushing Government on its views on ITRs is inappropriate when the initiative was itself from Government/CCK. To date, much of what I hear is not on substantive input, either on the AfCPs or Proposals from other Regions, but clamour for a Stakeholders' meeting or posting such as "thanks for a promise of a breakfast meeting" or 'pushing Gov't on its views'! We are a growing to be a society more comfortable attending workshops/breakfast meetings rather than the actual 'on the table work.' Let me reiterate that the rubber will meet the road, not in the fact that CCK has organised a Stake holder's workshop, but in a delegation that has prepared its docs, read the meeting docs/docs from other Regions and prepared to present reasoned arguments. Even as we hail the promise of a breakfast meeting or giving credit for pushing Gov't, please let us read the postings and offer substantive comments. It would help if the local Secretariat can prepare documentation for the workshop/breakfast meeting based on views presented apriori. As mentioned earlier, the official report of Ghana is out and should be posted either today or tomorrow. Kind rgds. OMO, John, Commission Secretary, Communications Commission of Kenya, P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800. Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348 "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr. ________________________________ From: kictanet on behalf of Kivuva Sent: Sun 11/4/2012 18:42 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? Thank you Ali for pushing for a government position on ITRs. When there is silence it means that 1. The government is playing their position like a secret card that should not be shown in public. 2. We don't have a position. 3. We don't understand what is being discussed. Thanks Dr. Ndemo for the hint of a breakfast meeting to clear the air. Regards On 04/11/2012, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Ndugu Omo Thanks for your note. I had actually refrained from posting any comments because of the Ghana meeting. In retrospect may be I should have irrespective of the Ghana meeting. I must say that this kind of discourse is definitely helpful and goes a long way in calming the waters. I look forward to the stakeholders meeting in the 13th Nov. Regards Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Nov 4, 2012, at 9:06 AM, "Omo, John" <Omo@cck.go.ke> wrote: Noted and thanks Nd Ali. We had posted a draft of the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) amending the ITRs. The AfCPs were the culmination of two preparatory meetings by Stakeholders held in Cairo and Durban. Our request was that Kenyan Stakeholders study and forward comments on the same to assist in our preparations for the preparatory meeting held in Ghana and also for a Kenyan Stakeholders meeting before the Dubai meeting. I remember getting indications that you'd study the same and revert with your comments. We are still waiting. The way this works is this: in order to have better use of time at Conferences, stakeholders are encouraged develop proposals common to their regions. Of course Member States, being sovereign, can submit their individual proposals separate from and even in opposition to their Regions (See a number of US proposals or common to both the US and Canada, that are different from those of CITEL to which both countries are a member). But it is better that views that are similar to a region or inter-region/s are submitted and discussed as common proposals. That hastens consensus building and saves on time at the Conference. We had indicated that our views as a country was pretty much a long the proposed AfCPs to which we have contributed. The official outcome of the Ghana meeting is now out and has some improvements to the Durban draft. We are uploading the same early this week, again with a request to Stakeholders submit substantive comments that would aid in either endorsing/not endorsing the same. The proposals will still be debated strenuously at the Conference which will take decisions largely by way of consensus. Please, please let us study the draft proposals including those from other Regions - that is where the rubber will meet the road in Dubai. Tentatively, we plan to have a local stakeholders meeting on the 13th Nov. With kind rgds. OMO, John Commission Secretary Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800 Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348 "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr. From: kictanet on behalf of Ali Hussein Sent: Sat 11/3/2012 09:17 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? Chip Thanks for the clarifications and updates. Listers I hate to bring this issue up again but should the utter and complete silence from the CCK on our country position raise red flags? Bwana DG Wangusi with all due respect to your good offices can we have some sort of statement on this issue? I believe it is critically important that we do know and I honestly believe that whatever that position is (whether it emanates from the IGF deliberations or not) it should now be made public. We are less than two months away from WCIT Dubai. Regards Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Nov 3, 2012, at 3:07 AM, "Chip Sharp (chsharp)" <chsharp@cisco.com> wrote: I'm sorry I'm late to this conversation, but I wanted to point out a few things. The only proposals for revision of the ITRs that will be considered at the WCIT are from Member States or Regional groups (e.g., ATU, CEPT). This means there are no ITU proposals to the WCIT. So where the article says "ITU proposal" it should say "country or regional proposal". It also means there is no ETNO proposal to the WCIT. The text ETNO have proposed must be submitted by a country or region or it won't be considered. The proposals that have been made public are not officially to be considered at WCIT. The countries or regions must submit their proposals (again) directly to the WCIT. These country proposals to the WCIT can be different from what has been made public. After reviewing the current submissions to WCIT I can say that some are different from what the same country or region proposed in the public document. A few of the differences are important. So ITU would need to make TD-1 and its revisions public to keep people informed as to the actual proposals into WCIT. ATU proposals are not yet available on the ITU website. Chip **Disclaimer: these are my opinions and not those of Cisco or the US del.*** On Oct 18, 2012, at 6:49 AM, "George Nyabuga" <george@afrinic.net> wrote: An interesting article in The Guardian, quoting, among others, our own Alice Munyua. But what the listers make of it? See article at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/17/who-rules-internet?CMP= twt_gu George Dr George Nyabuga Tel: +230 403 51 00 Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC Fax: +230 466 67 58 george@afrinic.net - www.afrinic.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------- Join us at AFRINIC-17 for our Public Policy Meeting in Khartoum, Sudan, on 24 - 29 November 2012 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chsharp%40cisco.co m The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein. com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva For Business Development Transworld Computer Channels Cel: 0722402248 twitter.com/lordmwesh transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/omo%40cck.go.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alice%40apc.org The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wambua%40cck.go.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dogwallah%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mtnndaro%40yahoo.co.uk The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Dear Ndaro, Thank you for sharing your views. I am however confused and concerned. While you are not explicitly supporting a particular view I, and I am sure others, would like to know what is our national position? There was a stakeholders meeting convened by the CCK on 13th November where several of us provided views, including substantive comments on the various AfCP's. The WCIT starts tomorrow and Kenya's position has not yet been made public. In addition, we are not sure whether and how stakeholders views are going to be incorporated. I am also wondering is there a framework and clear guidelines on stakeholder engagement in policy processes and in developing national positions? It is important for stakeholders to be contributing to a process that is clear. Best Alice
Dear All,
The WTSA, which sets the work program for the Telecommunication Standardization Sector (ITU-T) ended on 29th November, paving way for the WCIT. The Plenipotentiary Conference 2010 instructed the ITU Secretary General to organize the conference, to capture the tremendous changes and transformation that have taken place in the ICT sector. The last conference was held in Melbourne, Australia, in 1988.
Consequently, the ITU Council set up a working group to spearhead the process. The ITU-T Director has been the one organizing the process since the bulk of the substantive issues of the conference are related to standardization. Certainly, the outcome of the conference will be a product of a negotiated settlement, based on a lot of give and take. The most controversial subjects revolve around the role of governments in the purview of the Internet. Transparency, security,international accounting and settlement, fair compensation, spam, numbering and freedom, among others, are some of the topics that will come under intense global scrutiny in the next two weeks.
One school of thought advocates for the Internet to continue evolving on what is perceived to be an open, multi -stakeholder environment, while the other strongly feels that governments must have a role in the setting of rules governing the management of the resources that facilitate the evolution of the Internet, while allowing commercial entities, the freedom to freely negotiate. Network operators, buoyed by a number of national governments, are pushing for the recognition of not only the role they play in facilitating the delivery of content, but also for "fair" compensation for the use of their infrastructure in order to sustainably continue investing in the requisite facilities on which the net and its related services ride. Subjects such as fraud and internet security, which have become more and more complex will also be haggled upon vigorously. Content developers, advertisers, network operators, civili society, national governments, content sellers, bloggers, etc are pushing positions motivated by diverse persuasions.
At the heart of the various divergent positions being put forward are deep-seated national, regional, and private strategic and economic interests. While some countries are clear on what they want, some may not be fully aware of the long-term consequences of the positions they may wish to take. Intense lobbying, innuendo, back-stabbing, misrepresentation, and pre-negotiations have been going on. Nevertheless, after the intense debates, the final product of WCIT will be a balance between and among the various positions.
The ITU has come under intense pressure over the last few months and has been accused of habouring intentions of venturing into a domain it has no competence in and has been asked to focus on the arena of telecommunications. In its defence, the Union has insisted that, as a Member State based UN agency, it can only pursue an agenda put forward by its stakeholders and that it has no agenda of its own. The jury is still out but the truth will emerge once the veil is removed.
The above notwithstanding, it's extremely important that we come to the conference with more than one strategies with the willingness for give and take, as long as we stay within the reasonable confines of our national interests. Countries are looking at the bigger longer-term picture based on regional and global interests. Countries pushing the freedom card must be aware that while the ethos of freedom are sacrosanct, there is no national edict that commands extra-territorial application and that a reasonable balance will have to be struck between and among many delicate interests. I can bet that even those countries that hold strong divergent positions have been engaging in prior negotiations to facilitate the spirit of consensus and compromise. It is within the foregoing context that we have to view the AfCPs; they constitute a position meant to facilitate positive engagement and compromise, bearing in mind the reality that no single position will, and can dictate the outcomes of the conference. These are negotiations folks, not a war of bravado and brinksmanship; it's not a contest between progress and anarchy. Remember, it has taken twenty four years to agree on a negotiation platform. Certainly, there has been winners and losers over this long period, and hence the need for a conference to streamline the operational and regulatory framework. There might be minimum changes, extensive changes, moderate changes or no change at all, respectively.
We must defend our national position, whatever it might be, with facts, conviction and clarity, while respecting the right of others to hold different positions. The focus, folks, must be the bigger picture, informed by our carefully evaluated interests and the need to build beneficial alliances to the nation state. I repeat, nations have no friends, nations have interests.
Bon voyage to those traveling to Dubai and Best Regards.
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 1, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke <mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke>> wrote:
McTim
Several stakeholders made submissions to CCK on the AfCPs where we expressed strong reservations to CCKs support of the AfCPs. Our submissions were taken into consideration in the final report on the stakeholders meeting held n the 13th of November.
There will be a briefing on this on the eve of WCIT Dubai so I do hope this will be shared online.
Regards
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 30, 2012, at 10:42 PM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com <mailto:dogwallah@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all,
WCIT is just a few days away. Is Kenya still supporting the AfCPs, or the latest media reports :
http://www.biztechafrica.com/article/kenya-oppose-review-internet-rules/4822...
-- Cheers,
McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Wambua, Christopher <Wambua@cck.go.ke <mailto:Wambua@cck.go.ke>> wrote:
Listers,
I am pleased to inform you that we have uploaded the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) agreed upon in Ghana onto the CCK website. The AfCPs are available at http://www.cck.go.ke/links/consultations/current_consultations/African_C ommon_Proposals_the_ITRs_Rev.pdf
As already communicated by my colleagues, CCK shall host a stakeholders meeting on 13th November 2012 to share the proposals or Kenya's position on ITRs and collect comments/input on the same from the industry and other interested parties.
The venue of the stakeholders meeting shall be communicated in the course of the week. We look forward to receiving substantive comments on the ITRs ahead of the stakeholders meeting.
Best regards,
Christopher Wambua Manager/Communications Consumer and Public Affairs Division Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448, NAIROBI 00800 KENYA
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+wambua=cck.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of alice@apc.org <mailto:alice@apc.org> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 3:40 PM To: Wambua, Christopher Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Dear all
I agree with Omo. Is it possible to provide/discuss substantive comments to the current proposals for revisions of ITRs to assist the CCK finalize on developing a national position.
However, I can also understand why some stakeholder are not able to contribute. It would have been good, in retrospect to have organized a session to dymystify the ITRs and the discuss the merits/demerits of the current proposals.
Apologies for adding to the noise rather than contributing substantively.
best Alice
Thanks Nd Kivuva. Somehow, I didn't receive Nd Ali's response to mine which you seem to have responded to and for which I thank you.
CCK had posted the AfCPs inviting views in order to prepare for the Ghana meeting and also the meeting in Dubai. We indicated that we subscribed to the same, having contributed to their development. There was also a request that we study Proposals from other Regions. Further, there was a promise then, and still is, that CCK would convene a meeting of Stakeholders before the meeting in Dubai. Giving or taking credit for pushing Government on its views on ITRs is inappropriate when the initiative was itself from Government/CCK.
To date, much of what I hear is not on substantive input, either on the AfCPs or Proposals from other Regions, but clamour for a Stakeholders' meeting or posting such as "thanks for a promise of a breakfast meeting" or 'pushing Gov't on its views'! We are a growing to be a society more comfortable attending workshops/breakfast meetings rather than the actual 'on the table work.' Let me reiterate that the rubber will meet the road, not in the fact that CCK has organised a Stake holder's workshop, but in a delegation that has prepared its docs, read the meeting docs/docs from other Regions and prepared to present reasoned arguments.
Even as we hail the promise of a breakfast meeting or giving credit for pushing Gov't, please let us read the postings and offer substantive comments. It would help if the local Secretariat can prepare documentation for the workshop/breakfast meeting based on views presented apriori. As mentioned earlier, the official report of Ghana is out and should be posted either today or tomorrow.
Kind rgds.
OMO, John, Commission Secretary, Communications Commission of Kenya, P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800. Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348 "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr.
________________________________
From: kictanet on behalf of Kivuva Sent: Sun 11/4/2012 18:42 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Thank you Ali for pushing for a government position on ITRs. When there is silence it means that 1. The government is playing their position like a secret card that should not be shown in public. 2. We don't have a position. 3. We don't understand what is being discussed.
Thanks Dr. Ndemo for the hint of a breakfast meeting to clear the air.
Regards
Ndugu Omo
Thanks for your note. I had actually refrained from posting any comments because of the Ghana meeting. In retrospect may be I should have irrespective of the Ghana meeting.
I must say that this kind of discourse is definitely helpful and goes a long way in calming the waters.
I look forward to the stakeholders meeting in the 13th Nov.
Regards
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 4, 2012, at 9:06 AM, "Omo, John" <Omo@cck.go.ke <mailto:Omo@cck.go.ke>> wrote:
> Noted and thanks Nd Ali. > > We had posted a draft of the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) amending > the > ITRs. The AfCPs were the culmination of two preparatory meetings by > Stakeholders held in Cairo and Durban. Our request was that Kenyan > Stakeholders study and forward comments on the same to assist in our > preparations for the preparatory meeting held in Ghana and also for a > Kenyan Stakeholders meeting before the Dubai meeting. I remember > getting > indications that you'd study the same and revert with your comments. We > are still waiting. > > The way this works is this: in order to have better use of time at > Conferences, stakeholders are encouraged develop proposals common to > their > regions. Of course Member States, being sovereign, can submit their > individual proposals separate from and even in opposition to their > Regions > (See a number of US proposals or common to both the US and Canada,
> are different from those of CITEL to which both countries are a > member). > But it is better that views that are similar to a region or > inter-region/s are submitted and discussed as common proposals. That > hastens consensus building and saves on time at the Conference. We had > indicated that our views as a country was pretty much a long the > proposed > AfCPs to which we have contributed. > > The official outcome of the Ghana meeting is now out and has some > improvements to the Durban draft. We are uploading the same early
> week, again with a request to Stakeholders submit substantive comments > that would aid in either endorsing/not endorsing the same. The > proposals > will still be debated strenuously at the Conference which will take > decisions largely by way of consensus. Please, please let us study
> draft proposals including those from other Regions - that is where
On 04/11/2012, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke <mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke>> wrote: that this the the
> rubber will meet the road in Dubai. Tentatively, we plan to have a > local > stakeholders meeting on the 13th Nov. > > With kind rgds. > OMO, John > Commission Secretary > Communications Commission of Kenya > P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800 > Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 > Cell: +254722523348 > > "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to > bear" - > Martin Luther King Jr. > > From: kictanet on behalf of Ali Hussein > Sent: Sat 11/3/2012 09:17 > To: Omo, John > Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? > > Chip > > Thanks for the clarifications and updates. > > Listers > > I hate to bring this issue up again but should the utter and complete > silence from the CCK on our country position raise red flags? > > Bwana DG Wangusi with all due respect to your good offices can we have > some sort of statement on this issue? I believe it is critically > important > that we do know and I honestly believe that whatever that position is > (whether it emanates from the IGF deliberations or not) it should now > be > made public. We are less than two months away from WCIT Dubai. > > Regards > > Ali Hussein > CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd > Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd > > +254 773/713 601113 > > Sent from my iPad > > On Nov 3, 2012, at 3:07 AM, "Chip Sharp (chsharp)" <chsharp@cisco.com <mailto:chsharp@cisco.com>> > wrote: > >> I'm sorry I'm late to this conversation, but I wanted to point out a >> few >> things. >> >> The only proposals for revision of the ITRs that will be considered >> at >> the WCIT are from Member States or Regional groups (e.g., ATU, CEPT). >> >> This means there are no ITU proposals to the WCIT. So where the >> article >> says "ITU proposal" it should say "country or regional proposal". >> >> It also means there is no ETNO proposal to the WCIT. The text ETNO >> have >> proposed must be submitted by a country or region or it won't be >> considered. >> >> The proposals that have been made public are not officially to be >> considered at WCIT. The countries or regions must submit their >> proposals >> (again) directly to the WCIT. These country proposals to the WCIT can >> be >> different from what has been made public. After reviewing the current >> submissions to WCIT I can say that some are different from what the >> same >> country or region proposed in the public document. A few of the >> differences are important. So ITU would need to make TD-1 and its >> revisions public to keep people informed as to the actual proposals >> into >> WCIT. >> >> ATU proposals are not yet available on the ITU website. >> >> Chip >> **Disclaimer: these are my opinions and not those of Cisco or the US >> del.*** >> >> On Oct 18, 2012, at 6:49 AM, "George Nyabuga" >> <george@afrinic.net <mailto:george@afrinic.net>> >> wrote: >> >>> An interesting article in The Guardian, quoting, among others, our >>> own >>> Alice Munyua. But what the listers make of it? >>> >>> See article at: >>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/17/who-rules-internet?CMP= twt_gu >>> >>> George >>> >>> >>> Dr George Nyabuga >>> Tel: >>> +230 403 51 00 >>> Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC Fax: +230 466 67 58 >>> george@afrinic.net <mailto:george@afrinic.net> - >>> www.afrinic.net <http://www.afrinic.net> >>> >>>
----------------------------
>>> Join us at AFRINIC-17 for our Public Policy Meeting in Khartoum, >>> Sudan, >>> on 24 - 29 November 2012 >>>
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Ndaro, This is my first ever contribution on KICTANET since it started about 7 years ago. I wish to quote for you the final paragraph of the article by the Economist "Governments squabble over new rules for the internet" (http://www.economist.com/news/21567340-governments-squabble-over-new-rules-internet) which was also posted earlier on the list: "Fears of an anti-Western putsch in Dubai, handing control of the internet to authoritarian governments, are overblown. Though in theory the ITU works by majority vote, in practice agreements are almost always reached by consensus. Moreover, the ITU has no power to foist rules on governments that refuse to bargain. A bigger danger is therefore deadlock. That might encourage a large pack of nations to set up their own internet regime, making communication with the rest of the world more costly and more complicated". Perhaps all along it has never really been about national (and public) interest, security and ideals. Maybe it is all about commerce. So as a country THE choice is really ours. NB: Our official position as indicated before, during and after the stakeholder meeting is support of the African Common Proposals(AFCPs) with the output of the stakeholder meeting assisting us in negotiating our final position during the conference. And I believe all those who spoke during the stakeholders meeting have been included in the Kenyan Government official delegation to WCIT and I believe some are already in Dubai right now. Just thought I remind ourselves on what we discussed and agreed during the stakeholders meeting at the LAICO Hotel some 3 weeks back. Kind regards Daniel Obam ________________________________ From: Matano Ndaro <mtnndaro@yahoo.co.uk> To: daniel_obam@yahoo.com Cc: "Kandie, K Juma" <Kandie@cck.go.ke>; Consumer and Public Affairs <CPA@cck.go.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2012 3:36 PM Subject: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS Dear All, The WTSA, which sets the work program for the Telecommunication Standardization Sector (ITU-T) ended on 29th November, paving way for the WCIT. The Plenipotentiary Conference 2010 instructed the ITU Secretary General to organize the conference, to capture the tremendous changes and transformation that have taken place in the ICT sector. The last conference was held in Melbourne, Australia, in 1988. Consequently, the ITU Council set up a working group to spearhead the process. The ITU-T Director has been the one organizing the process since the bulk of the substantive issues of the conference are related to standardization. Certainly, the outcome of the conference will be a product of a negotiated settlement, based on a lot of give and take. The most controversial subjects revolve around the role of governments in the purview of the Internet. Transparency, security,international accounting and settlement, fair compensation, spam, numbering and freedom, among others, are some of the topics that will come under intense global scrutiny in the next two weeks. One school of thought advocates for the Internet to continue evolving on what is perceived to be an open, multi -stakeholder environment, while the other strongly feels that governments must have a role in the setting of rules governing the management of the resources that facilitate the evolution of the Internet, while allowing commercial entities, the freedom to freely negotiate. Network operators, buoyed by a number of national governments, are pushing for the recognition of not only the role they play in facilitating the delivery of content, but also for "fair" compensation for the use of their infrastructure in order to sustainably continue investing in the requisite facilities on which the net and its related services ride. Subjects such as fraud and internet security, which have become more and more complex will also be haggled upon vigorously. Content developers, advertisers, network operators, civili society, national governments, content sellers, bloggers, etc are pushing positions motivated by diverse persuasions. At the heart of the various divergent positions being put forward are deep-seated national, regional, and private strategic and economic interests. While some countries are clear on what they want, some may not be fully aware of the long-term consequences of the positions they may wish to take. Intense lobbying, innuendo, back-stabbing, misrepresentation, and pre-negotiations have been going on. Nevertheless, after the intense debates, the final product of WCIT will be a balance between and among the various positions. The ITU has come under intense pressure over the last few months and has been accused of habouring intentions of venturing into a domain it has no competence in and has been asked to focus on the arena of telecommunications. In its defence, the Union has insisted that, as a Member State based UN agency, it can only pursue an agenda put forward by its stakeholders and that it has no agenda of its own. The jury is still out but the truth will emerge once the veil is removed. The above notwithstanding, it's extremely important that we come to the conference with more than one strategies with the willingness for give and take, as long as we stay within the reasonable confines of our national interests. Countries are looking at the bigger longer-term picture based on regional and global interests. Countries pushing the freedom card must be aware that while the ethos of freedom are sacrosanct, there is no national edict that commands extra-territorial application and that a reasonable balance will have to be struck between and among many delicate interests. I can bet that even those countries that hold strong divergent positions have been engaging in prior negotiations to facilitate the spirit of consensus and compromise. It is within the foregoing context that we have to view the AfCPs; they constitute a position meant to facilitate positive engagement and compromise, bearing in mind the reality that no single position will, and can dictate the outcomes of the conference. These are negotiations folks, not a war of bravado and brinksmanship; it's not a contest between progress and anarchy. Remember, it has taken twenty four years to agree on a negotiation platform. Certainly, there has been winners and losers over this long period, and hence the need for a conference to streamline the operational and regulatory framework. There might be minimum changes, extensive changes, moderate changes or no change at all, respectively. We must defend our national position, whatever it might be, with facts, conviction and clarity, while respecting the right of others to hold different positions. The focus, folks, must be the bigger picture, informed by our carefully evaluated interests and the need to build beneficial alliances to the nation state. I repeat, nations have no friends, nations have interests. Bon voyage to those traveling to Dubai and Best Regards. Sent from my iPad On Dec 1, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: McTim > > >Several stakeholders made submissions to CCK on the AfCPs where we expressed strong reservations to CCKs support of the AfCPs. Our submissions were taken into consideration in the final report on the stakeholders meeting held n the 13th of November. > > >There will be a briefing on this on the eve of WCIT Dubai so I do hope this will be shared online. > > >Regards > > >Ali Hussein >CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd >Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd > > >+254 773/713 601113 > >Sent from my iPad > >On Nov 30, 2012, at 10:42 PM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: > > >Hi all, >> >>WCIT is just a few days away. Is Kenya still supporting the AfCPs, or >>the latest media reports : >> >>http://www.biztechafrica.com/article/kenya-oppose-review-internet-rules/4822/ >> >> >>-- >>Cheers, >> >>McTim >>"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A >>route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Wambua, Christopher <Wambua@cck.go.ke> wrote: >> >>Listers, >>> >> >>> >>I am pleased to inform you that we have uploaded the African Common >>> >>Proposals (AfCPs) agreed upon in Ghana onto the CCK website. The AfCPs >>> >>are available at >>> >>http://www.cck.go.ke/links/consultations/current_consultations/African_C >>> >>ommon_Proposals_the_ITRs_Rev.pdf >>> >> >>> >>As already communicated by my colleagues, CCK shall host a stakeholders >>> >>meeting on 13th November 2012 to share the proposals or Kenya's position >>> >>on ITRs and collect comments/input on the same from the industry and >>> >>other interested parties. >>> >> >>> >>The venue of the stakeholders meeting shall be communicated in the >>> >>course of the week. We look forward to receiving substantive comments >>> >>on the ITRs ahead of the stakeholders meeting. >>> >> >>> >>Best regards, >>> >> >>> >>Christopher Wambua >>> >>Manager/Communications >>> >>Consumer and Public Affairs Division >>> >>Communications Commission of Kenya >>> >>P.O. Box 14448, NAIROBI 00800 >>> >>KENYA >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>-----Original Message----- >>> >>From: kictanet >>> >>[mailto:kictanet-bounces+wambua=cck.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On >>> >>Behalf Of alice@apc.org >>> >>Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 3:40 PM >>> >>To: Wambua, Christopher >>> >>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >>> >>Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? >>> >> >>> >>Dear all >>> >> >>> >>I agree with Omo. Is it possible to provide/discuss substantive comments >>> >>to the current proposals for revisions of ITRs to assist the CCK >>> >>finalize >>> >>on developing a national position. >>> >> >>> >>However, I can also understand why some stakeholder are not able to >>> >>contribute. It would have been good, in retrospect to have organized a >>> >>session to dymystify the ITRs and the discuss the merits/demerits of the >>> >>current proposals. >>> >> >>> >>Apologies for adding to the noise rather than contributing >>> >>substantively. >>> >> >>> >>best >>> >>Alice >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>Thanks Nd Kivuva. Somehow, I didn't receive Nd Ali's response to mine >>>> >>which you seem to have responded to and for which I thank you. >>>> >> >>>> >>CCK had posted the AfCPs inviting views in order to prepare for the >>>> >>Ghana >>> >>meeting and also the meeting in Dubai. We indicated that we subscribed >>>> >>to >>> >>the same, having contributed to their development. There was also a >>>> >>request that we study Proposals from other Regions. Further, there was >>>> >>a >>> >>promise then, and still is, that CCK would convene a meeting of >>>> >>Stakeholders before the meeting in Dubai. Giving or taking credit for >>>> >>pushing Government on its views on ITRs is inappropriate when the >>>> >>initiative was itself from Government/CCK. >>>> >> >>>> >>To date, much of what I hear is not on substantive input, either on >>>> >>the >>> >>AfCPs or Proposals from other Regions, but clamour for a Stakeholders' >>>> >>meeting or posting such as "thanks for a promise of a breakfast >>>> >>meeting" >>> >>or 'pushing Gov't on its views'! We are a growing to be a society more >>>> >>comfortable attending workshops/breakfast meetings rather than the >>>> >>actual >>> >>'on the table work.' Let me reiterate that the rubber will meet the >>>> >>road, >>> >>not in the fact that CCK has organised a Stake holder's workshop, but >>>> >>in a >>> >>delegation that has prepared its docs, read the meeting docs/docs from >>>> >>other Regions and prepared to present reasoned arguments. >>>> >> >>>> >>Even as we hail the promise of a breakfast meeting or giving credit >>>> >>for >>> >>pushing Gov't, please let us read the postings and offer substantive >>>> >>comments. It would help if the local Secretariat can prepare >>>> >>documentation >>> >>for the workshop/breakfast meeting based on views presented apriori. >>>> >>As >>> >>mentioned earlier, the official report of Ghana is out and should be >>>> >>posted either today or tomorrow. >>>> >> >>>> >>Kind rgds. >>>> >> >>>> >>OMO, John, >>>> >>Commission Secretary, >>>> >>Communications Commission of Kenya, >>>> >>P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800. >>>> >>Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348 >>>> >>"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to >>>> >>bear" - >>> >>Martin Luther King Jr. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>________________________________ >>>> >> >>>> >>From: kictanet on behalf of Kivuva >>>> >>Sent: Sun 11/4/2012 18:42 >>>> >>To: Omo, John >>>> >>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >>>> >>Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>Thank you Ali for pushing for a government position on ITRs. When >>>> >>there is silence it means that >>>> >>1. The government is playing their position like a secret card that >>>> >>should not be shown in public. >>>> >>2. We don't have a position. >>>> >>3. We don't understand what is being discussed. >>>> >> >>>> >>Thanks Dr. Ndemo for the hint of a breakfast meeting to clear the air. >>>> >> >>>> >>Regards >>>> >> >>>> >>On 04/11/2012, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: >>>> >>Ndugu Omo >>>>> >> >>>>> >>Thanks for your note. I had actually refrained from posting any >>>>> >>comments >>> >>because of the Ghana meeting. In retrospect may be I should have >>>>> >>irrespective of the Ghana meeting. >>>>> >> >>>>> >>I must say that this kind of discourse is definitely helpful and goes >>>>> >>a >>> >>long >>>>> >>way in calming the waters. >>>>> >> >>>>> >>I look forward to the stakeholders meeting in the 13th Nov. >>>>> >> >>>>> >>Regards >>>>> >> >>>>> >>Ali Hussein >>>>> >>CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd >>>>> >>Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd >>>>> >> >>>>> >>+254 773/713 601113 >>>>> >> >>>>> >>Sent from my iPad >>>>> >> >>>>> >>On Nov 4, 2012, at 9:06 AM, "Omo, John" <Omo@cck.go.ke> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >>Noted and thanks Nd Ali. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>We had posted a draft of the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) >>>>>> >>amending >>> >>the >>>>>> >>ITRs. The AfCPs were the culmination of two preparatory meetings by >>>>>> >>Stakeholders held in Cairo and Durban. Our request was that Kenyan >>>>>> >>Stakeholders study and forward comments on the same to assist in our >>>>>> >>preparations for the preparatory meeting held in Ghana and also for >>>>>> >>a >>> >>Kenyan Stakeholders meeting before the Dubai meeting. I remember >>>>>> >>getting >>>>>> >>indications that you'd study the same and revert with your comments. >>>>>> >>We >>> >>are still waiting. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>The way this works is this: in order to have better use of time at >>>>>> >>Conferences, stakeholders are encouraged develop proposals common to >>>>>> >>their >>>>>> >>regions. Of course Member States, being sovereign, can submit their >>>>>> >>individual proposals separate from and even in opposition to their >>>>>> >>Regions >>>>>> >>(See a number of US proposals or common to both the US and Canada, >>>>>> >>that >>> >>are different from those of CITEL to which both countries are a >>>>>> >>member). >>>>>> >>But it is better that views that are similar to a region or >>>>>> >>inter-region/s are submitted and discussed as common proposals. That >>>>>> >>hastens consensus building and saves on time at the Conference. We >>>>>> >>had >>> >>indicated that our views as a country was pretty much a long the >>>>>> >>proposed >>>>>> >>AfCPs to which we have contributed. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>The official outcome of the Ghana meeting is now out and has some >>>>>> >>improvements to the Durban draft. We are uploading the same early >>>>>> >>this >>> >>week, again with a request to Stakeholders submit substantive >>>>>> >>comments >>> >>that would aid in either endorsing/not endorsing the same. The >>>>>> >>proposals >>>>>> >>will still be debated strenuously at the Conference which will take >>>>>> >>decisions largely by way of consensus. Please, please let us study >>>>>> >>the >>> >>draft proposals including those from other Regions - that is where >>>>>> >>the >>> >>rubber will meet the road in Dubai. Tentatively, we plan to have a >>>>>> >>local >>>>>> >>stakeholders meeting on the 13th Nov. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>With kind rgds. >>>>>> >>OMO, John >>>>>> >>Commission Secretary >>>>>> >>Communications Commission of Kenya >>>>>> >>P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800 >>>>>> >>Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 >>>>>> >>Cell: +254722523348 >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to >>>>>> >>bear" - >>>>>> >>Martin Luther King Jr. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>From: kictanet on behalf of Ali Hussein >>>>>> >>Sent: Sat 11/3/2012 09:17 >>>>>> >>To: Omo, John >>>>>> >>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >>>>>> >>Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>Chip >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>Thanks for the clarifications and updates. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>Listers >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>I hate to bring this issue up again but should the utter and >>>>>> >>complete >>> >>silence from the CCK on our country position raise red flags? >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>Bwana DG Wangusi with all due respect to your good offices can we >>>>>> >>have >>> >>some sort of statement on this issue? I believe it is critically >>>>>> >>important >>>>>> >>that we do know and I honestly believe that whatever that position >>>>>> >>is >>> >>(whether it emanates from the IGF deliberations or not) it should >>>>>> >>now >>> >>be >>>>>> >>made public. We are less than two months away from WCIT Dubai. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>Regards >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>Ali Hussein >>>>>> >>CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd >>>>>> >>Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>+254 773/713 601113 >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>On Nov 3, 2012, at 3:07 AM, "Chip Sharp (chsharp)" >>>>>> >><chsharp@cisco.com> >>> >>wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>I'm sorry I'm late to this conversation, but I wanted to point out >>>>>>> >>a >>> >>few >>>>>>> >>things. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>The only proposals for revision of the ITRs that will be >>>>>>> >>considered >>> >>at >>>>>>> >>the WCIT are from Member States or Regional groups (e.g., ATU, >>>>>>> >>CEPT). >>> >> >>>>>>> >>This means there are no ITU proposals to the WCIT. So where the >>>>>>> >>article >>>>>>> >>says "ITU proposal" it should say "country or regional proposal". >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>It also means there is no ETNO proposal to the WCIT. The text ETNO >>>>>>> >>have >>>>>>> >>proposed must be submitted by a country or region or it won't be >>>>>>> >>considered. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>The proposals that have been made public are not officially to be >>>>>>> >>considered at WCIT. The countries or regions must submit their >>>>>>> >>proposals >>>>>>> >>(again) directly to the WCIT. These country proposals to the WCIT >>>>>>> >>can >>> >>be >>>>>>> >>different from what has been made public. After reviewing the >>>>>>> >>current >>> >>submissions to WCIT I can say that some are different from what the >>>>>>> >>same >>>>>>> >>country or region proposed in the public document. A few of the >>>>>>> >>differences are important. So ITU would need to make TD-1 and its >>>>>>> >>revisions public to keep people informed as to the actual proposals >>>>>>> >>into >>>>>>> >>WCIT. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>ATU proposals are not yet available on the ITU website. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>Chip >>>>>>> >>**Disclaimer: these are my opinions and not those of Cisco or the >>>>>>> >>US >>> >>del.*** >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>On Oct 18, 2012, at 6:49 AM, "George Nyabuga" <george@afrinic.net> >>>>>>> >>wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>An interesting article in The Guardian, quoting, among others, our >>>>>>>> >>own >>>>>>>> >>Alice Munyua. But what the listers make of it? >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >>See article at: >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >>http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/17/who-rules-internet?CMP= >>> >>twt_gu >>> >> >>>>>>>> >>George >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >>Dr George Nyabuga >>>>>>>> >>Tel: >>>>>>>> >>+230 403 51 00 >>>>>>>> >>Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC Fax: +230 466 67 >>>>>>>> >>58 >>> >>george@afrinic.net - http://www.afrinic.net/ >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>---------------------------- >>> >>Join us at AFRINIC-17 for our Public Policy Meeting in Khartoum, >>>>>>>> >>Sudan, >>>>>>>> >>on 24 - 29 November 2012 >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>---------------------------- >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>kictanet mailing list >>>>>>>> >>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>>>>>> >>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chsharp%40cisco.co >>> >>m >>> >> >>>>>>>> >>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder >>>>>>>> >>platform >>>>>>>> >>for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy >>>>>>>> >>and >>> >>regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in >>>>>>>> >>the >>> >>ICT >>>>>>>> >>sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and >>>>>>>> >>development. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable >>>>>>>> >>behaviors >>>>>>>> >>online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and >>>>>>>> >>bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, >>>>>>>> >>respect >>>>>>>> >>privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>>>>>>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>kictanet mailing list >>>>>>> >>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>>>>> >>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein. >>> >>com >>> >> >>>>>>> >>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder >>>>>>> >>platform >>>>>>> >>for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy >>>>>>> >>and >>> >>regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the >>>>>>> >>ICT >>>>>>> >>sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and >>>>>>> >>development. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable >>>>>>> >>behaviors >>> >>online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and >>>>>>> >>bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, >>>>>>> >>respect >>>>>>> >>privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>-- >>>> >>______________________ >>>> >>Mwendwa Kivuva >>>> >>For >>>> >>Business Development >>>> >>Transworld Computer Channels >>>> >>Cel: 0722402248 >>>> >>twitter.com/lordmwesh >>>> >>transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing >>>> >>kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know >>>> >> >>>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>> >>kictanet mailing list >>>> >>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>> >>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>> >> >>>> >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>> >>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/omo%40cck.go.ke >>>> >> >>>> >>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder >>>> >>platform >>> >>for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and >>>> >>regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the >>>> >>ICT >>> >>sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and >>>> >>development. >>>> >> >>>> >>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors >>>> >>online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and >>>> >>bandwidth, >>> >>share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, >>>> >>do >>> >>not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>> >>kictanet mailing list >>>> >>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>> >>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>> >> >>>> >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>> >>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alice%40apc.org >>>> >> >>>> >>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder >>>> >>platform >>> >>for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and >>>> >>regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the >>>> >>ICT >>> >>sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and >>>> >>development. >>>> >> >>>> >>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors >>>> >>online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and >>>> >>bandwidth, >>> >>share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, >>>> >>do >>> >>not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>> >>kictanet mailing list >>> >>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> >>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >> >>> >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>> >>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wambua%40cck.go.ke >>> >> >>> >>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform >>> >>for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and >>> >>regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT >>> >>sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and >>> >>development. >>> >> >>> >>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors >>> >>online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and >>> >>bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect >>> >>privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>> >> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>> >>kictanet mailing list >>> >>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> >>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >> >>> >>Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dogwallah%40gmail.com >>> >> >>> >>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >>> >> >>> >>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>kictanet mailing list >>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >>Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com >> >>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >> >>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >> _______________________________________________ >kictanet mailing list >kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mtnndaro%40yahoo.co.uk > >The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. > >KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/daniel_obam%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Obam Thanks Obam and welcome to the list. A few quick points: 1. I do not remember stakeholders agreeing that Kenya was going to support the AfCP during the meeting that took place on November 13th at Laico. And if that was the agreement, then what was the use of having the stakeholders consultation? 2. Could we have a clarity on stakeholder participation in relation to development of national positions? 3. Does it mean then that no position has changed and that Kenya is still going with the AfCP as was shared before the stakeholder meeting? 4. And yes there is inclusion in the Kenya Delegation though people have to source for their own funding. However, there is no clarity on their engagement. Kind RegardsGrace Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 07:02:26 -0800 From: daniel_obam@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS CC: Kandie@cck.go.ke; CPA@cck.go.ke; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com Ndaro,This is my first ever contribution on KICTANET since it started about 7 years ago. I wish to quote for you the final paragraph of the article by the Economist "Governments squabble over new rules for the internet" (http://www.economist.com/news/21567340-governments-squabble-over-new-rules-i...) which was also posted earlier on the list: "Fears of an anti-Western putsch in Dubai, handing control of the internet to authoritarian governments, are overblown. Though in theory the ITU works by majority vote, in practice agreements are almost always reached by consensus. Moreover, the ITU has no power to foist rules on governments that refuse to bargain. A bigger danger is therefore deadlock. That might encourage a large pack of nations to set up their own internet regime, making communication with the rest of the world more costly and more complicated". Perhaps all along it has never really been about national (and public) interest, security and ideals. Maybe it is all about commerce. So as a country THE choice is really ours. NB: Our official position as indicated before, during and after the stakeholder meeting is support of the African Common Proposals(AFCPs) with the output of the stakeholder meeting assisting us in negotiating our final position during the conference. And I believe all those who spoke during the stakeholders meeting have been included in the Kenyan Government official delegation to WCIT and I believe some are already in Dubai right now. Just thought I remind ourselves on what we discussed and agreed during the stakeholders meeting at the LAICO Hotel some 3 weeks back. Kind regards Daniel Obam From: Matano Ndaro <mtnndaro@yahoo.co.uk> To: daniel_obam@yahoo.com Cc: "Kandie, K Juma" <Kandie@cck.go.ke>; Consumer and Public Affairs <CPA@cck.go.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2012 3:36 PM Subject: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS Dear All, The WTSA, which sets the work program for the Telecommunication Standardization Sector (ITU-T) ended on 29th November, paving way for the WCIT. The Plenipotentiary Conference 2010 instructed the ITU Secretary General to organize the conference, to capture the tremendous changes and transformation that have taken place in the ICT sector. The last conference was held in Melbourne, Australia, in 1988. Consequently, the ITU Council set up a working group to spearhead the process. The ITU-T Director has been the one organizing the process since the bulk of the substantive issues of the conference are related to standardization. Certainly, the outcome of the conference will be a product of a negotiated settlement, based on a lot of give and take. The most controversial subjects revolve around the role of governments in the purview of the Internet. Transparency, security,international accounting and settlement, fair compensation, spam, numbering and freedom, among others, are some of the topics that will come under intense global scrutiny in the next two weeks. One school of thought advocates for the Internet to continue evolving on what is perceived to be an open, multi -stakeholder environment, while the other strongly feels that governments must have a role in the setting of rules governing the management of the resources that facilitate the evolution of the Internet, while allowing commercial entities, the freedom to freely negotiate. Network operators, buoyed by a number of national governments, are pushing for the recognition of not only the role they play in facilitating the delivery of content, but also for "fair" compensation for the use of their infrastructure in order to sustainably continue investing in the requisite facilities on which the net and its related services ride. Subjects such as fraud and internet security, which have become more and more complex will also be haggled upon vigorously. Content developers, advertisers, network operators, civili society, national governments, content sellers, bloggers, etc are pushing positions motivated by diverse persuasions. At the heart of the various divergent positions being put forward are deep-seated national, regional, and private strategic and economic interests. While some countries are clear on what they want, some may not be fully aware of the long-term consequences of the positions they may wish to take. Intense lobbying, innuendo, back-stabbing, misrepresentation, and pre-negotiations have been going on. Nevertheless, after the intense debates, the final product of WCIT will be a balance between and among the various positions. The ITU has come under intense pressure over the last few months and has been accused of habouring intentions of venturing into a domain it has no competence in and has been asked to focus on the arena of telecommunications. In its defence, the Union has insisted that, as a Member State based UN agency, it can only pursue an agenda put forward by its stakeholders and that it has no agenda of its own. The jury is still out but the truth will emerge once the veil is removed. The above notwithstanding, it's extremely important that we come to the conference with more than one strategies with the willingness for give and take, as long as we stay within the reasonable confines of our national interests. Countries are looking at the bigger longer-term picture based on regional and global interests. Countries pushing the freedom card must be aware that while the ethos of freedom are sacrosanct, there is no national edict that commands extra-territorial application and that a reasonable balance will have to be struck between and among many delicate interests. I can bet that even those countries that hold strong divergent positions have been engaging in prior negotiations to facilitate the spirit of consensus and compromise. It is within the foregoing context that we have to view the AfCPs; they constitute a position meant to facilitate positive engagement and compromise, bearing in mind the reality that no single position will, and can dictate the outcomes of the conference. These are negotiations folks, not a war of bravado and brinksmanship; it's not a contest between progress and anarchy. Remember, it has taken twenty four years to agree on a negotiation platform. Certainly, there has been winners and losers over this long period, and hence the need for a conference to streamline the operational and regulatory framework. There might be minimum changes, extensive changes, moderate changes or no change at all, respectively. We must defend our national position, whatever it might be, with facts, conviction and clarity, while respecting the right of others to hold different positions. The focus, folks, must be the bigger picture, informed by our carefully evaluated interests and the need to build beneficial alliances to the nation state. I repeat, nations have no friends, nations have interests. Bon voyage to those traveling to Dubai and Best Regards. Sent from my iPad On Dec 1, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: McTim Several stakeholders made submissions to CCK on the AfCPs where we expressed strong reservations to CCKs support of the AfCPs. Our submissions were taken into consideration in the final report on the stakeholders meeting held n the 13th of November. There will be a briefing on this on the eve of WCIT Dubai so I do hope this will be shared online. Regards Ali HusseinCEO | 3mice interactive media LtdPrincipal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Nov 30, 2012, at 10:42 PM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: Hi all, WCIT is just a few days away. Is Kenya still supporting the AfCPs, or the latest media reports : http://www.biztechafrica.com/article/kenya-oppose-review-internet-rules/4822... -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Wambua, Christopher <Wambua@cck.go.ke> wrote: Listers, I am pleased to inform you that we have uploaded the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) agreed upon in Ghana onto the CCK website. The AfCPs are available at http://www.cck.go.ke/links/consultations/current_consultations/African_C ommon_Proposals_the_ITRs_Rev.pdf As already communicated by my colleagues, CCK shall host a stakeholders meeting on 13th November 2012 to share the proposals or Kenya's position on ITRs and collect comments/input on the same from the industry and other interested parties. The venue of the stakeholders meeting shall be communicated in the course of the week. We look forward to receiving substantive comments on the ITRs ahead of the stakeholders meeting. Best regards, Christopher Wambua Manager/Communications Consumer and Public Affairs Division Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448, NAIROBI 00800 KENYA -----Original Message----- From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+wambua=cck.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of alice@apc.org Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 3:40 PM To: Wambua, Christopher Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? Dear all I agree with Omo. Is it possible to provide/discuss substantive comments to the current proposals for revisions of ITRs to assist the CCK finalize on developing a national position. However, I can also understand why some stakeholder are not able to contribute. It would have been good, in retrospect to have organized a session to dymystify the ITRs and the discuss the merits/demerits of the current proposals. Apologies for adding to the noise rather than contributing substantively. best Alice Thanks Nd Kivuva. Somehow, I didn't receive Nd Ali's response to mine which you seem to have responded to and for which I thank you. CCK had posted the AfCPs inviting views in order to prepare for the Ghana meeting and also the meeting in Dubai. We indicated that we subscribed to the same, having contributed to their development. There was also a request that we study Proposals from other Regions. Further, there was a promise then, and still is, that CCK would convene a meeting of Stakeholders before the meeting in Dubai. Giving or taking credit for pushing Government on its views on ITRs is inappropriate when the initiative was itself from Government/CCK. To date, much of what I hear is not on substantive input, either on the AfCPs or Proposals from other Regions, but clamour for a Stakeholders' meeting or posting such as "thanks for a promise of a breakfast meeting" or 'pushing Gov't on its views'! We are a growing to be a society more comfortable attending workshops/breakfast meetings rather than the actual 'on the table work.' Let me reiterate that the rubber will meet the road, not in the fact that CCK has organised a Stake holder's workshop, but in a delegation that has prepared its docs, read the meeting docs/docs from other Regions and prepared to present reasoned arguments. Even as we hail the promise of a breakfast meeting or giving credit for pushing Gov't, please let us read the postings and offer substantive comments. It would help if the local Secretariat can prepare documentation for the workshop/breakfast meeting based on views presented apriori. As mentioned earlier, the official report of Ghana is out and should be posted either today or tomorrow. Kind rgds. OMO, John, Commission Secretary, Communications Commission of Kenya, P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800. Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348 "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr. ________________________________ From: kictanet on behalf of Kivuva Sent: Sun 11/4/2012 18:42 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? Thank you Ali for pushing for a government position on ITRs. When there is silence it means that 1. The government is playing their position like a secret card that should not be shown in public. 2. We don't have a position. 3. We don't understand what is being discussed. Thanks Dr. Ndemo for the hint of a breakfast meeting to clear the air. Regards On 04/11/2012, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Ndugu Omo Thanks for your note. I had actually refrained from posting any comments because of the Ghana meeting. In retrospect may be I should have irrespective of the Ghana meeting. I must say that this kind of discourse is definitely helpful and goes a long way in calming the waters. I look forward to the stakeholders meeting in the 13th Nov. Regards Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Nov 4, 2012, at 9:06 AM, "Omo, John" <Omo@cck.go.ke> wrote: Noted and thanks Nd Ali. We had posted a draft of the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) amending the ITRs. The AfCPs were the culmination of two preparatory meetings by Stakeholders held in Cairo and Durban. Our request was that Kenyan Stakeholders study and forward comments on the same to assist in our preparations for the preparatory meeting held in Ghana and also for a Kenyan Stakeholders meeting before the Dubai meeting. I remember getting indications that you'd study the same and revert with your comments. We are still waiting. The way this works is this: in order to have better use of time at Conferences, stakeholders are encouraged develop proposals common to their regions. Of course Member States, being sovereign, can submit their individual proposals separate from and even in opposition to their Regions (See a number of US proposals or common to both the US and Canada, that are different from those of CITEL to which both countries are a member). But it is better that views that are similar to a region or inter-region/s are submitted and discussed as common proposals. That hastens consensus building and saves on time at the Conference. We had indicated that our views as a country was pretty much a long the proposed AfCPs to which we have contributed. The official outcome of the Ghana meeting is now out and has some improvements to the Durban draft. We are uploading the same early this week, again with a request to Stakeholders submit substantive comments that would aid in either endorsing/not endorsing the same. The proposals will still be debated strenuously at the Conference which will take decisions largely by way of consensus. Please, please let us study the draft proposals including those from other Regions - that is where the rubber will meet the road in Dubai. Tentatively, we plan to have a local stakeholders meeting on the 13th Nov. With kind rgds. OMO, John Commission Secretary Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800 Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348 "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr. From: kictanet on behalf of Ali Hussein Sent: Sat 11/3/2012 09:17 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? Chip Thanks for the clarifications and updates. Listers I hate to bring this issue up again but should the utter and complete silence from the CCK on our country position raise red flags? Bwana DG Wangusi with all due respect to your good offices can we have some sort of statement on this issue? I believe it is critically important that we do know and I honestly believe that whatever that position is (whether it emanates from the IGF deliberations or not) it should now be made public. We are less than two months away from WCIT Dubai. Regards Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Nov 3, 2012, at 3:07 AM, "Chip Sharp (chsharp)" <chsharp@cisco.com> wrote: I'm sorry I'm late to this conversation, but I wanted to point out a few things. The only proposals for revision of the ITRs that will be considered at the WCIT are from Member States or Regional groups (e.g., ATU, CEPT). This means there are no ITU proposals to the WCIT. So where the article says "ITU proposal" it should say "country or regional proposal". It also means there is no ETNO proposal to the WCIT. The text ETNO have proposed must be submitted by a country or region or it won't be considered. The proposals that have been made public are not officially to be considered at WCIT. The countries or regions must submit their proposals (again) directly to the WCIT. These country proposals to the WCIT can be different from what has been made public. After reviewing the current submissions to WCIT I can say that some are different from what the same country or region proposed in the public document. A few of the differences are important. So ITU would need to make TD-1 and its revisions public to keep people informed as to the actual proposals into WCIT. ATU proposals are not yet available on the ITU website. Chip **Disclaimer: these are my opinions and not those of Cisco or the US del.*** On Oct 18, 2012, at 6:49 AM, "George Nyabuga" <george@afrinic.net> wrote: An interesting article in The Guardian, quoting, among others, our own Alice Munyua. But what the listers make of it? See article at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/17/who-rules-internet?CMP= twt_gu George Dr George Nyabuga Tel: +230 403 51 00 Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC Fax: +230 466 67 58 george@afrinic.net - http://www.afrinic.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------- Join us at AFRINIC-17 for our Public Policy Meeting in Khartoum, Sudan, on 24 - 29 November 2012 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chsharp%40cisco.co m The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein. com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva For Business Development Transworld Computer Channels Cel: 0722402248 twitter.com/lordmwesh transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/omo%40cck.go.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alice%40apc.org The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wambua%40cck.go.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dogwallah%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mtnndaro%40yahoo.co.uk The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/daniel_obam%40yahoo.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Listers I want to echo Alice & Grace here. I DON'T REMEMBER THERE BEING A CONSENSUS THAT WE SUPPORT THE AfCPs! Please see attached the report on the meeting of the 13th November. Bwana Obam I think you need to withdraw that statement as it is unrepresentative of the discourse on that day. I am worried and I'm wondering what those of us who are going to Dubai will be contributing to when the Kenya Delegation is clearly not in agreement of what should be our National Position. *Ali Hussein* Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com>wrote:
Obam
Thanks Obam and welcome to the list.
A few quick points:
1. I do not remember stakeholders agreeing that Kenya was going to support the AfCP during the meeting that took place on November 13th at Laico. And if that was the agreement, then what was the use of having the stakeholders consultation?
2. Could we have a clarity on stakeholder participation in relation to development of national positions?
3. Does it mean then that no position has changed and that Kenya is still going with the AfCP as was shared before the stakeholder meeting?
4. And yes there is inclusion in the Kenya Delegation though people have to source for their own funding. However, there is no clarity on their engagement.
Kind Regards Grace
------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 07:02:26 -0800 From: daniel_obam@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS
CC: Kandie@cck.go.ke; CPA@cck.go.ke; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
Ndaro, This is my first ever contribution on KICTANET since it started about 7 years ago.
I wish to quote for you the final paragraph of the article by the Economist "Governments squabble over new rules for the internet" ( http://www.economist.com/news/21567340-governments-squabble-over-new-rules-i...) <http://www.economist.com/news/21567340-governments-squabble-over-new-rules-internet%29>which was also posted earlier on the list:
"*Fears of an anti-Western putsch in Dubai, handing control of the internet to authoritarian governments, are overblown. Though in theory the ITU works by majority vote, in practice agreements are almost always reached by consensus. Moreover, the ITU has no power to foist rules on governments that refuse to bargain. A bigger danger is therefore deadlock. That might encourage a large pack of nations to set up their own internet regime, making communication with the rest of the world more costly and more complicated*".
Perhaps all along it has never really been about national (and public) interest, security and ideals. Maybe it is all about commerce. So as a country THE choice is really ours.
NB: Our official position as indicated before, during and after the stakeholder meeting is support of the African Common Proposals(AFCPs) with the output of the stakeholder meeting assisting us in negotiating our final position during the conference. And I believe all those who spoke during the stakeholders meeting have been included in the Kenyan Government official delegation to WCIT and I believe some are already in Dubai right now.
Just thought I remind ourselves on what we discussed and agreed during the stakeholders meeting at the LAICO Hotel some 3 weeks back.
Kind regards
Daniel Obam *From:* Matano Ndaro <mtnndaro@yahoo.co.uk> *To:* daniel_obam@yahoo.com *Cc:* "Kandie, K Juma" <Kandie@cck.go.ke>; Consumer and Public Affairs < CPA@cck.go.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Saturday, December 1, 2012 3:36 PM *Subject:* [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS
Dear All,
The WTSA, which sets the work program for the Telecommunication Standardization Sector (ITU-T) ended on 29th November, paving way for the WCIT. The Plenipotentiary Conference 2010 instructed the ITU Secretary General to organize the conference, to capture the tremendous changes and transformation that have taken place in the ICT sector. The last conference was held in Melbourne, Australia, in 1988.
Consequently, the ITU Council set up a working group to spearhead the process. The ITU-T Director has been the one organizing the process since the bulk of the substantive issues of the conference are related to standardization. Certainly, the outcome of the conference will be a product of a negotiated settlement, based on a lot of give and take. The most controversial subjects revolve around the role of governments in the purview of the Internet. Transparency, security,international accounting and settlement, fair compensation, spam, numbering and freedom, among others, are some of the topics that will come under intense global scrutiny in the next two weeks.
One school of thought advocates for the Internet to continue evolving on what is perceived to be an open, multi -stakeholder environment, while the other strongly feels that governments must have a role in the setting of rules governing the management of the resources that facilitate the evolution of the Internet, while allowing commercial entities, the freedom to freely negotiate. Network operators, buoyed by a number of national governments, are pushing for the recognition of not only the role they play in facilitating the delivery of content, but also for "fair" compensation for the use of their infrastructure in order to sustainably continue investing in the requisite facilities on which the net and its related services ride. Subjects such as fraud and internet security, which have become more and more complex will also be haggled upon vigorously. Content developers, advertisers, network operators, civili society, national governments, content sellers, bloggers, etc are pushing positions motivated by diverse persuasions.
At the heart of the various divergent positions being put forward are deep-seated national, regional, and private strategic and economic interests. While some countries are clear on what they want, some may not be fully aware of the long-term consequences of the positions they may wish to take. Intense lobbying, innuendo, back-stabbing, misrepresentation, and pre-negotiations have been going on. Nevertheless, after the intense debates, the final product of WCIT will be a balance between and among the various positions.
The ITU has come under intense pressure over the last few months and has been accused of habouring intentions of venturing into a domain it has no competence in and has been asked to focus on the arena of telecommunications. In its defence, the Union has insisted that, as a Member State based UN agency, it can only pursue an agenda put forward by its stakeholders and that it has no agenda of its own. The jury is still out but the truth will emerge once the veil is removed.
The above notwithstanding, it's extremely important that we come to the conference with more than one strategies with the willingness for give and take, as long as we stay within the reasonable confines of our national interests. Countries are looking at the bigger longer-term picture based on regional and global interests. Countries pushing the freedom card must be aware that while the ethos of freedom are sacrosanct, there is no national edict that commands extra-territorial application and that a reasonable balance will have to be struck between and among many delicate interests. I can bet that even those countries that hold strong divergent positions have been engaging in prior negotiations to facilitate the spirit of consensus and compromise. It is within the foregoing context that we have to view the AfCPs; they constitute a position meant to facilitate positive engagement and compromise, bearing in mind the reality that no single position will, and can dictate the outcomes of the conference. These are negotiations folks, not a war of bravado and brinksmanship; it's not a contest between progress and anarchy. Remember, it has taken twenty four years to agree on a negotiation platform. Certainly, there has been winners and losers over this long period, and hence the need for a conference to streamline the operational and regulatory framework. There might be minimum changes, extensive changes, moderate changes or no change at all, respectively.
We must defend our national position, whatever it might be, with facts, conviction and clarity, while respecting the right of others to hold different positions. The focus, folks, must be the bigger picture, informed by our carefully evaluated interests and the need to build beneficial alliances to the nation state. I repeat, nations have no friends, nations have interests.
Bon voyage to those traveling to Dubai and Best Regards.
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 1, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
McTim
Several stakeholders made submissions to CCK on the AfCPs where we expressed strong reservations to CCKs support of the AfCPs. Our submissions were taken into consideration in the final report on the stakeholders meeting held n the 13th of November.
There will be a briefing on this on the eve of WCIT Dubai so I do hope this will be shared online.
Regards
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 30, 2012, at 10:42 PM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
WCIT is just a few days away. Is Kenya still supporting the AfCPs, or the latest media reports :
http://www.biztechafrica.com/article/kenya-oppose-review-internet-rules/4822...
-- Cheers,
McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Wambua, Christopher <Wambua@cck.go.ke> wrote:
Listers,
I am pleased to inform you that we have uploaded the African Common
Proposals (AfCPs) agreed upon in Ghana onto the CCK website. The AfCPs
are available at
http://www.cck.go.ke/links/consultations/current_consultations/African_C
ommon_Proposals_the_ITRs_Rev.pdf
As already communicated by my colleagues, CCK shall host a stakeholders
meeting on 13th November 2012 to share the proposals or Kenya's position
on ITRs and collect comments/input on the same from the industry and
other interested parties.
The venue of the stakeholders meeting shall be communicated in the
course of the week. We look forward to receiving substantive comments
on the ITRs ahead of the stakeholders meeting.
Best regards,
Christopher Wambua
Manager/Communications
Consumer and Public Affairs Division
Communications Commission of Kenya
P.O. Box 14448, NAIROBI 00800
KENYA
-----Original Message-----
From: kictanet
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+wambua=cck.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<kictanet-bounces+wambua=cck.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke>] On
Behalf Of alice@apc.org
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 3:40 PM
To: Wambua, Christopher
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Dear all
I agree with Omo. Is it possible to provide/discuss substantive comments
to the current proposals for revisions of ITRs to assist the CCK
finalize
on developing a national position.
However, I can also understand why some stakeholder are not able to
contribute. It would have been good, in retrospect to have organized a
session to dymystify the ITRs and the discuss the merits/demerits of the
current proposals.
Apologies for adding to the noise rather than contributing
substantively.
best
Alice
Thanks Nd Kivuva. Somehow, I didn't receive Nd Ali's response to mine
which you seem to have responded to and for which I thank you.
CCK had posted the AfCPs inviting views in order to prepare for the
Ghana
meeting and also the meeting in Dubai. We indicated that we subscribed
to
the same, having contributed to their development. There was also a
request that we study Proposals from other Regions. Further, there was
a
promise then, and still is, that CCK would convene a meeting of
Stakeholders before the meeting in Dubai. Giving or taking credit for
pushing Government on its views on ITRs is inappropriate when the
initiative was itself from Government/CCK.
To date, much of what I hear is not on substantive input, either on
the
AfCPs or Proposals from other Regions, but clamour for a Stakeholders'
meeting or posting such as "thanks for a promise of a breakfast
meeting"
or 'pushing Gov't on its views'! We are a growing to be a society more
comfortable attending workshops/breakfast meetings rather than the
actual
'on the table work.' Let me reiterate that the rubber will meet the
road,
not in the fact that CCK has organised a Stake holder's workshop, but
in a
delegation that has prepared its docs, read the meeting docs/docs from
other Regions and prepared to present reasoned arguments.
Even as we hail the promise of a breakfast meeting or giving credit
for
pushing Gov't, please let us read the postings and offer substantive
comments. It would help if the local Secretariat can prepare
documentation
for the workshop/breakfast meeting based on views presented apriori.
As
mentioned earlier, the official report of Ghana is out and should be
posted either today or tomorrow.
Kind rgds.
OMO, John,
Commission Secretary,
Communications Commission of Kenya,
P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800.
Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348
"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to
bear" -
Martin Luther King Jr.
________________________________
From: kictanet on behalf of Kivuva
Sent: Sun 11/4/2012 18:42
To: Omo, John
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Thank you Ali for pushing for a government position on ITRs. When
there is silence it means that
1. The government is playing their position like a secret card that
should not be shown in public.
2. We don't have a position.
3. We don't understand what is being discussed.
Thanks Dr. Ndemo for the hint of a breakfast meeting to clear the air.
Regards
On 04/11/2012, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Ndugu Omo
Thanks for your note. I had actually refrained from posting any
comments
because of the Ghana meeting. In retrospect may be I should have
irrespective of the Ghana meeting.
I must say that this kind of discourse is definitely helpful and goes
a
long
way in calming the waters.
I look forward to the stakeholders meeting in the 13th Nov.
Regards
Ali Hussein
CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd
Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 4, 2012, at 9:06 AM, "Omo, John" <Omo@cck.go.ke> wrote:
Noted and thanks Nd Ali.
We had posted a draft of the African Common Proposals (AfCPs)
amending
the
ITRs. The AfCPs were the culmination of two preparatory meetings by
Stakeholders held in Cairo and Durban. Our request was that Kenyan
Stakeholders study and forward comments on the same to assist in our
preparations for the preparatory meeting held in Ghana and also for
a
Kenyan Stakeholders meeting before the Dubai meeting. I remember
getting
indications that you'd study the same and revert with your comments.
We
are still waiting.
The way this works is this: in order to have better use of time at
Conferences, stakeholders are encouraged develop proposals common to
their
regions. Of course Member States, being sovereign, can submit their
individual proposals separate from and even in opposition to their
Regions
(See a number of US proposals or common to both the US and Canada,
that
are different from those of CITEL to which both countries are a
member).
But it is better that views that are similar to a region or
inter-region/s are submitted and discussed as common proposals. That
hastens consensus building and saves on time at the Conference. We
had
indicated that our views as a country was pretty much a long the
proposed
AfCPs to which we have contributed.
The official outcome of the Ghana meeting is now out and has some
improvements to the Durban draft. We are uploading the same early
this
week, again with a request to Stakeholders submit substantive
comments
that would aid in either endorsing/not endorsing the same. The
proposals
will still be debated strenuously at the Conference which will take
decisions largely by way of consensus. Please, please let us study
the
draft proposals including those from other Regions - that is where
the
rubber will meet the road in Dubai. Tentatively, we plan to have a
local
stakeholders meeting on the 13th Nov.
With kind rgds.
OMO, John
Commission Secretary
Communications Commission of Kenya
P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800
Tel: +254 20 4242285/6
Cell: +254722523348
"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to
bear" -
Martin Luther King Jr.
From: kictanet on behalf of Ali Hussein
Sent: Sat 11/3/2012 09:17
To: Omo, John
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Chip
Thanks for the clarifications and updates.
Listers
I hate to bring this issue up again but should the utter and
complete
silence from the CCK on our country position raise red flags?
Bwana DG Wangusi with all due respect to your good offices can we
have
some sort of statement on this issue? I believe it is critically
important
that we do know and I honestly believe that whatever that position
is
(whether it emanates from the IGF deliberations or not) it should
now
be
made public. We are less than two months away from WCIT Dubai.
Regards
Ali Hussein
CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd
Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 3:07 AM, "Chip Sharp (chsharp)"
<chsharp@cisco.com>
wrote:
I'm sorry I'm late to this conversation, but I wanted to point out
a
few
things.
The only proposals for revision of the ITRs that will be
considered
at
the WCIT are from Member States or Regional groups (e.g., ATU,
CEPT).
This means there are no ITU proposals to the WCIT. So where the
article
says "ITU proposal" it should say "country or regional proposal".
It also means there is no ETNO proposal to the WCIT. The text ETNO
have
proposed must be submitted by a country or region or it won't be
considered.
The proposals that have been made public are not officially to be
considered at WCIT. The countries or regions must submit their
proposals
(again) directly to the WCIT. These country proposals to the WCIT
can
be
different from what has been made public. After reviewing the
current
submissions to WCIT I can say that some are different from what the
same
country or region proposed in the public document. A few of the
differences are important. So ITU would need to make TD-1 and its
revisions public to keep people informed as to the actual proposals
into
WCIT.
ATU proposals are not yet available on the ITU website.
Chip
**Disclaimer: these are my opinions and not those of Cisco or the
US
del.***
On Oct 18, 2012, at 6:49 AM, "George Nyabuga" <george@afrinic.net>
wrote:
An interesting article in The Guardian, quoting, among others, our
own
Alice Munyua. But what the listers make of it?
See article at:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/17/who-rules-internet?CMP=
twt_gu
George
Dr George Nyabuga
Tel:
+230 403 51 00
Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC Fax: +230 466 67
58
george@afrinic.net - http://www.afrinic.net/
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----------------------------
Join us at AFRINIC-17 for our Public Policy Meeting in Khartoum,
Sudan,
on 24 - 29 November 2012
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Dear Matano, Obam, Wambua, Omo et al, I for one, have confidence in the representation that the CCK-led Kenya delegation provides us with. I believe that your long experience in matters at the ITU level as well as with the consensus building and negotiation processes that take place therein will be of great benefit to us, not only as a nation but also as stakeholders in the internet industry. We look forward to hearing back from you regarding the outcomes. Best regards, Brian [image: logo] *Brian Munyao Longwe* | Mobile: 254715964281 http://mashilingi.blogspot.com <http://www.facebook.com/brianmunyao> Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/brianmunyao> <http://www.twitter.com/blongwe> Twitter <http://www.twitter.com/blongwe> <http://ke.linkedin.com/pub/brian-munyao-longwe/0/32/254> LinkedIn<http://ke.linkedin.com/pub/brian-munyao-longwe/0/32/254> Contact me: [image: Skype] blongwe Want a signature like mine? <http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=16&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_16> Click here.<http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=16&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_16> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 9:13 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Listers
I want to echo Alice & Grace here. I DON'T REMEMBER THERE BEING A CONSENSUS THAT WE SUPPORT THE AfCPs!
Please see attached the report on the meeting of the 13th November. Bwana Obam I think you need to withdraw that statement as it is unrepresentative of the discourse on that day.
I am worried and I'm wondering what those of us who are going to Dubai will be contributing to when the Kenya Delegation is clearly not in agreement of what should be our National Position.
*Ali Hussein*
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com>wrote:
Obam
Thanks Obam and welcome to the list.
A few quick points:
1. I do not remember stakeholders agreeing that Kenya was going to support the AfCP during the meeting that took place on November 13th at Laico. And if that was the agreement, then what was the use of having the stakeholders consultation?
2. Could we have a clarity on stakeholder participation in relation to development of national positions?
3. Does it mean then that no position has changed and that Kenya is still going with the AfCP as was shared before the stakeholder meeting?
4. And yes there is inclusion in the Kenya Delegation though people have to source for their own funding. However, there is no clarity on their engagement.
Kind Regards Grace
------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 07:02:26 -0800 From: daniel_obam@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS
CC: Kandie@cck.go.ke; CPA@cck.go.ke; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
Ndaro, This is my first ever contribution on KICTANET since it started about 7 years ago.
I wish to quote for you the final paragraph of the article by the Economist "Governments squabble over new rules for the internet" ( http://www.economist.com/news/21567340-governments-squabble-over-new-rules-i...) <http://www.economist.com/news/21567340-governments-squabble-over-new-rules-internet%29>which was also posted earlier on the list:
"*Fears of an anti-Western putsch in Dubai, handing control of the internet to authoritarian governments, are overblown. Though in theory the ITU works by majority vote, in practice agreements are almost always reached by consensus. Moreover, the ITU has no power to foist rules on governments that refuse to bargain. A bigger danger is therefore deadlock. That might encourage a large pack of nations to set up their own internet regime, making communication with the rest of the world more costly and more complicated*".
Perhaps all along it has never really been about national (and public) interest, security and ideals. Maybe it is all about commerce. So as a country THE choice is really ours.
NB: Our official position as indicated before, during and after the stakeholder meeting is support of the African Common Proposals(AFCPs) with the output of the stakeholder meeting assisting us in negotiating our final position during the conference. And I believe all those who spoke during the stakeholders meeting have been included in the Kenyan Government official delegation to WCIT and I believe some are already in Dubai right now.
Just thought I remind ourselves on what we discussed and agreed during the stakeholders meeting at the LAICO Hotel some 3 weeks back.
Kind regards
Daniel Obam *From:* Matano Ndaro <mtnndaro@yahoo.co.uk> *To:* daniel_obam@yahoo.com *Cc:* "Kandie, K Juma" <Kandie@cck.go.ke>; Consumer and Public Affairs < CPA@cck.go.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Saturday, December 1, 2012 3:36 PM *Subject:* [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS
Dear All,
The WTSA, which sets the work program for the Telecommunication Standardization Sector (ITU-T) ended on 29th November, paving way for the WCIT. The Plenipotentiary Conference 2010 instructed the ITU Secretary General to organize the conference, to capture the tremendous changes and transformation that have taken place in the ICT sector. The last conference was held in Melbourne, Australia, in 1988.
Consequently, the ITU Council set up a working group to spearhead the process. The ITU-T Director has been the one organizing the process since the bulk of the substantive issues of the conference are related to standardization. Certainly, the outcome of the conference will be a product of a negotiated settlement, based on a lot of give and take. The most controversial subjects revolve around the role of governments in the purview of the Internet. Transparency, security,international accounting and settlement, fair compensation, spam, numbering and freedom, among others, are some of the topics that will come under intense global scrutiny in the next two weeks.
One school of thought advocates for the Internet to continue evolving on what is perceived to be an open, multi -stakeholder environment, while the other strongly feels that governments must have a role in the setting of rules governing the management of the resources that facilitate the evolution of the Internet, while allowing commercial entities, the freedom to freely negotiate. Network operators, buoyed by a number of national governments, are pushing for the recognition of not only the role they play in facilitating the delivery of content, but also for "fair" compensation for the use of their infrastructure in order to sustainably continue investing in the requisite facilities on which the net and its related services ride. Subjects such as fraud and internet security, which have become more and more complex will also be haggled upon vigorously. Content developers, advertisers, network operators, civili society, national governments, content sellers, bloggers, etc are pushing positions motivated by diverse persuasions.
At the heart of the various divergent positions being put forward are deep-seated national, regional, and private strategic and economic interests. While some countries are clear on what they want, some may not be fully aware of the long-term consequences of the positions they may wish to take. Intense lobbying, innuendo, back-stabbing, misrepresentation, and pre-negotiations have been going on. Nevertheless, after the intense debates, the final product of WCIT will be a balance between and among the various positions.
The ITU has come under intense pressure over the last few months and has been accused of habouring intentions of venturing into a domain it has no competence in and has been asked to focus on the arena of telecommunications. In its defence, the Union has insisted that, as a Member State based UN agency, it can only pursue an agenda put forward by its stakeholders and that it has no agenda of its own. The jury is still out but the truth will emerge once the veil is removed.
The above notwithstanding, it's extremely important that we come to the conference with more than one strategies with the willingness for give and take, as long as we stay within the reasonable confines of our national interests. Countries are looking at the bigger longer-term picture based on regional and global interests. Countries pushing the freedom card must be aware that while the ethos of freedom are sacrosanct, there is no national edict that commands extra-territorial application and that a reasonable balance will have to be struck between and among many delicate interests. I can bet that even those countries that hold strong divergent positions have been engaging in prior negotiations to facilitate the spirit of consensus and compromise. It is within the foregoing context that we have to view the AfCPs; they constitute a position meant to facilitate positive engagement and compromise, bearing in mind the reality that no single position will, and can dictate the outcomes of the conference. These are negotiations folks, not a war of bravado and brinksmanship; it's not a contest between progress and anarchy. Remember, it has taken twenty four years to agree on a negotiation platform. Certainly, there has been winners and losers over this long period, and hence the need for a conference to streamline the operational and regulatory framework. There might be minimum changes, extensive changes, moderate changes or no change at all, respectively.
We must defend our national position, whatever it might be, with facts, conviction and clarity, while respecting the right of others to hold different positions. The focus, folks, must be the bigger picture, informed by our carefully evaluated interests and the need to build beneficial alliances to the nation state. I repeat, nations have no friends, nations have interests.
Bon voyage to those traveling to Dubai and Best Regards.
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 1, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
McTim
Several stakeholders made submissions to CCK on the AfCPs where we expressed strong reservations to CCKs support of the AfCPs. Our submissions were taken into consideration in the final report on the stakeholders meeting held n the 13th of November.
There will be a briefing on this on the eve of WCIT Dubai so I do hope this will be shared online.
Regards
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 30, 2012, at 10:42 PM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
WCIT is just a few days away. Is Kenya still supporting the AfCPs, or the latest media reports :
http://www.biztechafrica.com/article/kenya-oppose-review-internet-rules/4822...
-- Cheers,
McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Wambua, Christopher <Wambua@cck.go.ke> wrote:
Listers,
I am pleased to inform you that we have uploaded the African Common
Proposals (AfCPs) agreed upon in Ghana onto the CCK website. The AfCPs
are available at
http://www.cck.go.ke/links/consultations/current_consultations/African_C
ommon_Proposals_the_ITRs_Rev.pdf
As already communicated by my colleagues, CCK shall host a stakeholders
meeting on 13th November 2012 to share the proposals or Kenya's position
on ITRs and collect comments/input on the same from the industry and
other interested parties.
The venue of the stakeholders meeting shall be communicated in the
course of the week. We look forward to receiving substantive comments
on the ITRs ahead of the stakeholders meeting.
Best regards,
Christopher Wambua
Manager/Communications
Consumer and Public Affairs Division
Communications Commission of Kenya
P.O. Box 14448, NAIROBI 00800
KENYA
-----Original Message-----
From: kictanet
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+wambua=cck.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<kictanet-bounces+wambua=cck.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke>] On
Behalf Of alice@apc.org
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 3:40 PM
To: Wambua, Christopher
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Dear all
I agree with Omo. Is it possible to provide/discuss substantive comments
to the current proposals for revisions of ITRs to assist the CCK
finalize
on developing a national position.
However, I can also understand why some stakeholder are not able to
contribute. It would have been good, in retrospect to have organized a
session to dymystify the ITRs and the discuss the merits/demerits of the
current proposals.
Apologies for adding to the noise rather than contributing
substantively.
best
Alice
Thanks Nd Kivuva. Somehow, I didn't receive Nd Ali's response to mine
which you seem to have responded to and for which I thank you.
CCK had posted the AfCPs inviting views in order to prepare for the
Ghana
meeting and also the meeting in Dubai. We indicated that we subscribed
to
the same, having contributed to their development. There was also a
request that we study Proposals from other Regions. Further, there was
a
promise then, and still is, that CCK would convene a meeting of
Stakeholders before the meeting in Dubai. Giving or taking credit for
pushing Government on its views on ITRs is inappropriate when the
initiative was itself from Government/CCK.
To date, much of what I hear is not on substantive input, either on
the
AfCPs or Proposals from other Regions, but clamour for a Stakeholders'
meeting or posting such as "thanks for a promise of a breakfast
meeting"
or 'pushing Gov't on its views'! We are a growing to be a society more
comfortable attending workshops/breakfast meetings rather than the
actual
'on the table work.' Let me reiterate that the rubber will meet the
road,
not in the fact that CCK has organised a Stake holder's workshop, but
in a
delegation that has prepared its docs, read the meeting docs/docs from
other Regions and prepared to present reasoned arguments.
Even as we hail the promise of a breakfast meeting or giving credit
for
pushing Gov't, please let us read the postings and offer substantive
comments. It would help if the local Secretariat can prepare
documentation
for the workshop/breakfast meeting based on views presented apriori.
As
mentioned earlier, the official report of Ghana is out and should be
posted either today or tomorrow.
Kind rgds.
OMO, John,
Commission Secretary,
Communications Commission of Kenya,
P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800.
Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348
"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to
bear" -
Martin Luther King Jr.
________________________________
From: kictanet on behalf of Kivuva
Sent: Sun 11/4/2012 18:42
To: Omo, John
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Thank you Ali for pushing for a government position on ITRs. When
there is silence it means that
1. The government is playing their position like a secret card that
should not be shown in public.
2. We don't have a position.
3. We don't understand what is being discussed.
Thanks Dr. Ndemo for the hint of a breakfast meeting to clear the air.
Regards
On 04/11/2012, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Ndugu Omo
Thanks for your note. I had actually refrained from posting any
comments
because of the Ghana meeting. In retrospect may be I should have
irrespective of the Ghana meeting.
I must say that this kind of discourse is definitely helpful and goes
a
long
way in calming the waters.
I look forward to the stakeholders meeting in the 13th Nov.
Regards
Ali Hussein
CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd
Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 4, 2012, at 9:06 AM, "Omo, John" <Omo@cck.go.ke> wrote:
Noted and thanks Nd Ali.
We had posted a draft of the African Common Proposals (AfCPs)
amending
the
ITRs. The AfCPs were the culmination of two preparatory meetings by
Stakeholders held in Cairo and Durban. Our request was that Kenyan
Stakeholders study and forward comments on the same to assist in our
preparations for the preparatory meeting held in Ghana and also for
a
Kenyan Stakeholders meeting before the Dubai meeting. I remember
getting
indications that you'd study the same and revert with your comments.
We
are still waiting.
The way this works is this: in order to have better use of time at
Conferences, stakeholders are encouraged develop proposals common to
their
regions. Of course Member States, being sovereign, can submit their
individual proposals separate from and even in opposition to their
Regions
(See a number of US proposals or common to both the US and Canada,
that
are different from those of CITEL to which both countries are a
member).
But it is better that views that are similar to a region or
inter-region/s are submitted and discussed as common proposals. That
hastens consensus building and saves on time at the Conference. We
had
indicated that our views as a country was pretty much a long the
proposed
AfCPs to which we have contributed.
The official outcome of the Ghana meeting is now out and has some
improvements to the Durban draft. We are uploading the same early
this
week, again with a request to Stakeholders submit substantive
comments
that would aid in either endorsing/not endorsing the same. The
proposals
will still be debated strenuously at the Conference which will take
decisions largely by way of consensus. Please, please let us study
the
draft proposals including those from other Regions - that is where
the
rubber will meet the road in Dubai. Tentatively, we plan to have a
local
stakeholders meeting on the 13th Nov.
With kind rgds.
OMO, John
Commission Secretary
Communications Commission of Kenya
P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800
Tel: +254 20 4242285/6
Cell: +254722523348
"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to
bear" -
Martin Luther King Jr.
From: kictanet on behalf of Ali Hussein
Sent: Sat 11/3/2012 09:17
To: Omo, John
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet?
Chip
Thanks for the clarifications and updates.
Listers
I hate to bring this issue up again but should the utter and
complete
silence from the CCK on our country position raise red flags?
Bwana DG Wangusi with all due respect to your good offices can we
have
some sort of statement on this issue? I believe it is critically
important
that we do know and I honestly believe that whatever that position
is
(whether it emanates from the IGF deliberations or not) it should
now
be
made public. We are less than two months away from WCIT Dubai.
Regards
Ali Hussein
CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd
Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 3:07 AM, "Chip Sharp (chsharp)"
<chsharp@cisco.com>
wrote:
I'm sorry I'm late to this conversation, but I wanted to point out
a
few
things.
The only proposals for revision of the ITRs that will be
considered
at
the WCIT are from Member States or Regional groups (e.g., ATU,
CEPT).
This means there are no ITU proposals to the WCIT. So where the
article
says "ITU proposal" it should say "country or regional proposal".
It also means there is no ETNO proposal to the WCIT. The text ETNO
have
proposed must be submitted by a country or region or it won't be
considered.
The proposals that have been made public are not officially to be
considered at WCIT. The countries or regions must submit their
proposals
(again) directly to the WCIT. These country proposals to the WCIT
can
be
different from what has been made public. After reviewing the
current
submissions to WCIT I can say that some are different from what the
same
country or region proposed in the public document. A few of the
differences are important. So ITU would need to make TD-1 and its
revisions public to keep people informed as to the actual proposals
into
WCIT.
ATU proposals are not yet available on the ITU website.
Chip
**Disclaimer: these are my opinions and not those of Cisco or the
US
del.***
On Oct 18, 2012, at 6:49 AM, "George Nyabuga" <george@afrinic.net>
wrote:
An interesting article in The Guardian, quoting, among others, our
own
Alice Munyua. But what the listers make of it?
See article at:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/17/who-rules-internet?CMP=
twt_gu
George
Dr George Nyabuga
Tel:
+230 403 51 00
Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC Fax: +230 466 67
58
george@afrinic.net - http://www.afrinic.net/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------
Join us at AFRINIC-17 for our Public Policy Meeting in Khartoum,
Sudan,
on 24 - 29 November 2012
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
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for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
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--
______________________
Mwendwa Kivuva
For
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Transworld Computer Channels
Cel: 0722402248
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transworldAfrica.com <http://transworldafrica.com/> | Fluent in computing
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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I would want to agree with Brian as well. In that Ministry of Info and CCK do have extensive experience in dealing with ITU matters and we can only bank on them to steer the current negotiations on the ITRs in the best interest of the country. That said, I would also want to echo Alice concerns and add that perhaps this being the first time the Kenyan delegation has incorporated "non-state" actors in their delegation, it would have been nice to think through how their additional views could be effectively taken on board or otherwise. In other words assuming that Kenyan position is aligned to the African Position - as reported at the preliminary meeting in Ghana - then to what extend have additional views arising from the last Stakeholders meeting in Nairobi been incorporated? And if those views were not taken on board, what was the rationale behind such a decision? I know Wambua said the Kenyan Delegation had an internal meeting in Dubai last evening and perhaps these issues were tackled and it could have been nice to have some feedback. I think we all want the best for Kenya but have a different understanding on how to go about it. We simply need to take time to understand each others perspectives and we will likely get the best for the country/region in this ITU meeting. walu. ________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: kandie@cck.go.ke; cpa@cck.go.ke; "kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:52 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS Dear Matano, Obam, Wambua, Omo et al, I for one, have confidence in the representation that the CCK-led Kenya delegation provides us with. I believe that your long experience in matters at the ITU level as well as with the consensus building and negotiation processes that take place therein will be of great benefit to us, not only as a nation but also as stakeholders in the internet industry. We look forward to hearing back from you regarding the outcomes. Best regards, Brian Brian Munyao Longwe | Mobile: 254715964281http://mashilingi.blogspot.com Facebook Twitter LinkedIn Contact me: blongwe Want a signature like mine? Click here. On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 9:13 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Listers > >I want to echo Alice & Grace here. I DON'T REMEMBER THERE BEING A CONSENSUS THAT WE SUPPORT THE AfCPs! > >Please see attached the report on the meeting of the 13th November. Bwana Obam I think you need to withdraw that statement as it is unrepresentative of the discourse on that day. > >I am worried and I'm wondering what those of us who are going to Dubai will be contributing to when the Kenya Delegation is clearly not in agreement of what should be our National Position. > > > >Ali Hussein > >Twitter: @AliHKassim >Skype: abu-jomo > > > > >On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> wrote: > >Obam >> >> >>Thanks Obam and welcome to the list. >> >> >>A few quick points: >> >> >>1. I do not remember stakeholders agreeing that Kenya was going to support the AfCP during the meeting that took place on November 13th at Laico. And if that was the agreement, then what was the use of having the stakeholders consultation? >> >> >>2. Could we have a clarity on stakeholder participation in relation to development of national positions? >> >> >>3. Does it mean then that no position has changed and that Kenya is still going with the AfCP as was shared before the stakeholder meeting? >> >> >>4. And yes there is inclusion in the Kenya Delegation though people have to source for their own funding. However, there is no clarity on their engagement. >> >> >>Kind Regards >>Grace >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> >>Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 07:02:26 -0800 >>From: daniel_obam@yahoo.com >>Subject: Re: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS >> >>CC: Kandie@cck.go.ke; CPA@cck.go.ke; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com >> >> >>Ndaro, >>This is my first ever contribution on KICTANET since it started about 7 years ago. >> >>I wish to quote for you the final paragraph of the article by the Economist "Governments squabble over new rules for the internet" (http://www.economist.com/news/21567340-governments-squabble-over-new-rules-internet) which was also posted earlier on the list: >> >>"Fears of an anti-Western putsch in Dubai, handing control of the internet to authoritarian governments, are overblown. Though in theory the ITU works by majority vote, in practice agreements are almost always reached by consensus. Moreover, the ITU has no power to foist rules on governments that refuse to bargain. A bigger danger is therefore deadlock. That might encourage a large pack of nations to set up their own internet regime, making communication with the rest of the world more costly and more complicated". >> >>Perhaps all along it has never really been about national (and public) interest, security and ideals. Maybe it is all about commerce. So as a country THE choice is really ours. >> >>NB: Our official position as indicated before, during and after the stakeholder meeting is support of the African Common Proposals(AFCPs) with the output of the stakeholder meeting assisting us in negotiating our final position during the conference. And I believe all those who spoke during the stakeholders meeting have been included in the Kenyan Government official delegation to WCIT and I believe some are already in Dubai right now. >> >>Just thought I remind ourselves on what we discussed and agreed during the stakeholders meeting at the LAICO Hotel some 3 weeks back. >> >>Kind regards >> >>Daniel Obam >>From: Matano Ndaro <mtnndaro@yahoo.co.uk> >>To: daniel_obam@yahoo.com >>Cc: "Kandie, K Juma" <Kandie@cck.go.ke>; Consumer and Public Affairs <CPA@cck.go.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2012 3:36 PM >>Subject: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS >> >> >> >>Dear All, >> >> >>The WTSA, which sets the work program for the Telecommunication Standardization Sector (ITU-T) ended on 29th November, paving way for the WCIT. The Plenipotentiary Conference 2010 instructed the ITU Secretary General to organize the conference, to capture the tremendous changes and transformation that have taken place in the ICT sector. The last conference was held in Melbourne, Australia, in 1988. >> >> >>Consequently, the ITU Council set up a working group to spearhead the process. The ITU-T Director has been the one organizing the process since the bulk of the substantive issues of the conference are related to standardization. Certainly, the outcome of the conference will be a product of a negotiated settlement, based on a lot of give and take. The most controversial subjects revolve around the role of governments in the purview of the Internet. Transparency, security,international accounting and settlement, fair compensation, spam, numbering and freedom, among others, are some of the topics that will come under intense global scrutiny in the next two weeks. >> >> >>One school of thought advocates for the Internet to continue evolving on what is perceived to be an open, multi -stakeholder environment, while the other strongly feels that governments must have a role in the setting of rules governing the management of the resources that facilitate the evolution of the Internet, while allowing commercial entities, the freedom to freely negotiate. Network operators, buoyed by a number of national governments, are pushing for the recognition of not only the role they play in facilitating the delivery of content, but also for "fair" compensation for the use of their infrastructure in order to sustainably continue investing in the requisite facilities on which the net and its related services ride. Subjects such as fraud and internet security, which have become more and more complex will also be haggled upon vigorously. Content developers, advertisers, network operators, civili society, national governments, content sellers, bloggers, etc are pushing positions motivated by diverse persuasions. >> >> >>At the heart of the various divergent positions being put forward are deep-seated national, regional, and private strategic and economic interests. While some countries are clear on what they want, some may not be fully aware of the long-term consequences of the positions they may wish to take. Intense lobbying, innuendo, back-stabbing, misrepresentation, and pre-negotiations have been going on. Nevertheless, after the intense debates, the final product of WCIT will be a balance between and among the various positions. >> >> >>The ITU has come under intense pressure over the last few months and has been accused of habouring intentions of venturing into a domain it has no competence in and has been asked to focus on the arena of telecommunications. In its defence, the Union has insisted that, as a Member State based UN agency, it can only pursue an agenda put forward by its stakeholders and that it has no agenda of its own. The jury is still out but the truth will emerge once the veil is removed. >> >> >>The above notwithstanding, it's extremely important that we come to the conference with more than one strategies with the willingness for give and take, as long as we stay within the reasonable confines of our national interests. Countries are looking at the bigger longer-term picture based on regional and global interests. Countries pushing the freedom card must be aware that while the ethos of freedom are sacrosanct, there is no national edict that commands extra-territorial application and that a reasonable balance will have to be struck between and among many delicate interests. I can bet that even those countries that hold strong divergent positions have been engaging in prior negotiations to facilitate the spirit of consensus and compromise. It is within the foregoing context that we have to view the AfCPs; they constitute a position meant to facilitate positive engagement and compromise, bearing in mind the reality that no single position will, and can dictate the outcomes of the conference. These are negotiations folks, not a war of bravado and brinksmanship; it's not a contest between progress and anarchy. Remember, it has taken twenty four years to agree on a negotiation platform. Certainly, there has been winners and losers over this long period, and hence the need for a conference to streamline the operational and regulatory framework. There might be minimum changes, extensive changes, moderate changes or no change at all, respectively. >> >> >>We must defend our national position, whatever it might be, with facts, conviction and clarity, while respecting the right of others to hold different positions. The focus, folks, must be the bigger >>picture, informed by our carefully evaluated interests and the need to build beneficial alliances to the nation state. I repeat, nations have no friends, nations have interests. >> >> >>Bon voyage to those traveling to Dubai and Best Regards. >> >> >> >>Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >>On Dec 1, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: >> >> >>McTim >>> >>> >>>Several stakeholders made submissions to CCK on the AfCPs where we expressed strong reservations to CCKs support of the AfCPs. Our submissions were taken into consideration in the final report on the stakeholders meeting held n the 13th of November. >>> >>> >>>There will be a briefing on this on the eve of WCIT Dubai so I do hope this will be shared online. >>> >>> >>>Regards >>> >>> >>>Ali Hussein >>>CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd >>>Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd >>> >>> >>>+254 773/713 601113 >>> >>>Sent from my iPad >>> >>>On Nov 30, 2012, at 10:42 PM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>Hi all, >>>> >>>>WCIT is just a few days away. Is Kenya still supporting the AfCPs, or >>>>the latest media reports : >>>> >>>>http://www.biztechafrica.com/article/kenya-oppose-review-internet-rules/4822/ >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Cheers, >>>> >>>>McTim >>>>"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A >>>>route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Wambua, Christopher <Wambua@cck.go.ke> wrote: >>>> >>>>Listers, >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>I am pleased to inform you that we have uploaded the African Common >>>>> >>>>Proposals (AfCPs) agreed upon in Ghana onto the CCK website. The AfCPs >>>>> >>>>are available at >>>>> >>>>http://www.cck.go.ke/links/consultations/current_consultations/African_C >>>>> >>>>ommon_Proposals_the_ITRs_Rev.pdf >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>As already communicated by my colleagues, CCK shall host a stakeholders >>>>> >>>>meeting on 13th November 2012 to share the proposals or Kenya's position >>>>> >>>>on ITRs and collect comments/input on the same from the industry and >>>>> >>>>other interested parties. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>The venue of the stakeholders meeting shall be communicated in the >>>>> >>>>course of the week. We look forward to receiving substantive comments >>>>> >>>>on the ITRs ahead of the stakeholders meeting. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>Best regards, >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>Christopher Wambua >>>>> >>>>Manager/Communications >>>>> >>>>Consumer and Public Affairs Division >>>>> >>>>Communications Commission of Kenya >>>>> >>>>P.O. Box 14448, NAIROBI 00800 >>>>> >>>>KENYA >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>> >>>>From: kictanet >>>>> >>>>[mailto:kictanet-bounces+wambua=cck.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On >>>>> >>>>Behalf Of alice@apc.org >>>>> >>>>Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 3:40 PM >>>>> >>>>To: Wambua, Christopher >>>>> >>>>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >>>>> >>>>Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>Dear all >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>I agree with Omo. Is it possible to provide/discuss substantive comments >>>>> >>>>to the current proposals for revisions of ITRs to assist the CCK >>>>> >>>>finalize >>>>> >>>>on developing a national position. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>However, I can also understand why some stakeholder are not able to >>>>> >>>>contribute. It would have been good, in retrospect to have organized a >>>>> >>>>session to dymystify the ITRs and the discuss the merits/demerits of the >>>>> >>>>current proposals. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>Apologies for adding to the noise rather than contributing >>>>> >>>>substantively. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>best >>>>> >>>>Alice >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>Thanks Nd Kivuva. Somehow, I didn't receive Nd Ali's response to mine >>>>>> >>>>which you seem to have responded to and for which I thank you. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>CCK had posted the AfCPs inviting views in order to prepare for the >>>>>> >>>>Ghana >>>>> >>>>meeting and also the meeting in Dubai. We indicated that we subscribed >>>>>> >>>>to >>>>> >>>>the same, having contributed to their development. There was also a >>>>>> >>>>request that we study Proposals from other Regions. Further, there was >>>>>> >>>>a >>>>> >>>>promise then, and still is, that CCK would convene a meeting of >>>>>> >>>>Stakeholders before the meeting in Dubai. Giving or taking credit for >>>>>> >>>>pushing Government on its views on ITRs is inappropriate when the >>>>>> >>>>initiative was itself from Government/CCK. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>To date, much of what I hear is not on substantive input, either on >>>>>> >>>>the >>>>> >>>>AfCPs or Proposals from other Regions, but clamour for a Stakeholders' >>>>>> >>>>meeting or posting such as "thanks for a promise of a breakfast >>>>>> >>>>meeting" >>>>> >>>>or 'pushing Gov't on its views'! We are a growing to be a society more >>>>>> >>>>comfortable attending workshops/breakfast meetings rather than the >>>>>> >>>>actual >>>>> >>>>'on the table work.' Let me reiterate that the rubber will meet the >>>>>> >>>>road, >>>>> >>>>not in the fact that CCK has organised a Stake holder's workshop, but >>>>>> >>>>in a >>>>> >>>>delegation that has prepared its docs, read the meeting docs/docs from >>>>>> >>>>other Regions and prepared to present reasoned arguments. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>Even as we hail the promise of a breakfast meeting or giving credit >>>>>> >>>>for >>>>> >>>>pushing Gov't, please let us read the postings and offer substantive >>>>>> >>>>comments. It would help if the local Secretariat can prepare >>>>>> >>>>documentation >>>>> >>>>for the workshop/breakfast meeting based on views presented apriori. >>>>>> >>>>As >>>>> >>>>mentioned earlier, the official report of Ghana is out and should be >>>>>> >>>>posted either today or tomorrow. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>Kind rgds. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>OMO, John, >>>>>> >>>>Commission Secretary, >>>>>> >>>>Communications Commission of Kenya, >>>>>> >>>>P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800. >>>>>> >>>>Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348 >>>>>> >>>>"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to >>>>>> >>>>bear" - >>>>> >>>>Martin Luther King Jr. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>________________________________ >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>From: kictanet on behalf of Kivuva >>>>>> >>>>Sent: Sun 11/4/2012 18:42 >>>>>> >>>>To: Omo, John >>>>>> >>>>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >>>>>> >>>>Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>Thank you Ali for pushing for a government position on ITRs. When >>>>>> >>>>there is silence it means that >>>>>> >>>>1. The government is playing their position like a secret card that >>>>>> >>>>should not be shown in public. >>>>>> >>>>2. We don't have a position. >>>>>> >>>>3. We don't understand what is being discussed. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>Thanks Dr. Ndemo for the hint of a breakfast meeting to clear the air. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>Regards >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>On 04/11/2012, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>Ndugu Omo >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>Thanks for your note. I had actually refrained from posting any >>>>>>> >>>>comments >>>>> >>>>because of the Ghana meeting. In retrospect may be I should have >>>>>>> >>>>irrespective of the Ghana meeting. >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>I must say that this kind of discourse is definitely helpful and goes >>>>>>> >>>>a >>>>> >>>>long >>>>>>> >>>>way in calming the waters. >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>I look forward to the stakeholders meeting in the 13th Nov. >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>Regards >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>Ali Hussein >>>>>>> >>>>CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd >>>>>>> >>>>Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>+254 773/713 601113 >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>Sent from my iPad >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>On Nov 4, 2012, at 9:06 AM, "Omo, John" <Omo@cck.go.ke> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>Noted and thanks Nd Ali. >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>We had posted a draft of the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) >>>>>>>> >>>>amending >>>>> >>>>the >>>>>>>> >>>>ITRs. The AfCPs were the culmination of two preparatory meetings by >>>>>>>> >>>>Stakeholders held in Cairo and Durban. Our request was that Kenyan >>>>>>>> >>>>Stakeholders study and forward comments on the same to assist in our >>>>>>>> >>>>preparations for the preparatory meeting held in Ghana and also for >>>>>>>> >>>>a >>>>> >>>>Kenyan Stakeholders meeting before the Dubai meeting. I remember >>>>>>>> >>>>getting >>>>>>>> >>>>indications that you'd study the same and revert with your comments. >>>>>>>> >>>>We >>>>> >>>>are still waiting. >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>The way this works is this: in order to have better use of time at >>>>>>>> >>>>Conferences, stakeholders are encouraged develop proposals common to >>>>>>>> >>>>their >>>>>>>> >>>>regions. Of course Member States, being sovereign, can submit their >>>>>>>> >>>>individual proposals separate from and even in opposition to their >>>>>>>> >>>>Regions >>>>>>>> >>>>(See a number of US proposals or common to both the US and Canada, >>>>>>>> >>>>that >>>>> >>>>are different from those of CITEL to which both countries are a >>>>>>>> >>>>member). >>>>>>>> >>>>But it is better that views that are similar to a region or >>>>>>>> >>>>inter-region/s are submitted and discussed as common proposals. That >>>>>>>> >>>>hastens consensus building and saves on time at the Conference. We >>>>>>>> >>>>had >>>>> >>>>indicated that our views as a country was pretty much a long the >>>>>>>> >>>>proposed >>>>>>>> >>>>AfCPs to which we have contributed. >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>The official outcome of the Ghana meeting is now out and has some >>>>>>>> >>>>improvements to the Durban draft. We are uploading the same early >>>>>>>> >>>>this >>>>> >>>>week, again with a request to Stakeholders submit substantive >>>>>>>> >>>>comments >>>>> >>>>that would aid in either endorsing/not endorsing the same. The >>>>>>>> >>>>proposals >>>>>>>> >>>>will still be debated strenuously at the Conference which will take >>>>>>>> >>>>decisions largely by way of consensus. Please, please let us study >>>>>>>> >>>>the >>>>> >>>>draft proposals including those from other Regions - that is where >>>>>>>> >>>>the >>>>> >>>>rubber will meet the road in Dubai. Tentatively, we plan to have a >>>>>>>> >>>>local >>>>>>>> >>>>stakeholders meeting on the 13th Nov. >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>With kind rgds. >>>>>>>> >>>>OMO, John >>>>>>>> >>>>Commission Secretary >>>>>>>> >>>>Communications Commission of Kenya >>>>>>>> >>>>P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800 >>>>>>>> >>>>Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 >>>>>>>> >>>>Cell: +254722523348 >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to >>>>>>>> >>>>bear" - >>>>>>>> >>>>Martin Luther King Jr. >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>From: kictanet on behalf of Ali Hussein >>>>>>>> >>>>Sent: Sat 11/3/2012 09:17 >>>>>>>> >>>>To: Omo, John >>>>>>>> >>>>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >>>>>>>> >>>>Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>Chip >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>Thanks for the clarifications and updates. >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>Listers >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>I hate to bring this issue up again but should the utter and >>>>>>>> >>>>complete >>>>> >>>>silence from the CCK on our country position raise red flags? >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>Bwana DG Wangusi with all due respect to your good offices can we >>>>>>>> >>>>have >>>>> >>>>some sort of statement on this issue? I believe it is critically >>>>>>>> >>>>important >>>>>>>> >>>>that we do know and I honestly believe that whatever that position >>>>>>>> >>>>is >>>>> >>>>(whether it emanates from the IGF deliberations or not) it should >>>>>>>> >>>>now >>>>> >>>>be >>>>>>>> >>>>made public. We are less than two months away from WCIT Dubai. >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>Regards >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>Ali Hussein >>>>>>>> >>>>CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd >>>>>>>> >>>>Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>+254 773/713 601113 >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>On Nov 3, 2012, at 3:07 AM, "Chip Sharp (chsharp)" >>>>>>>> >>>><chsharp@cisco.com> >>>>> >>>>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>I'm sorry I'm late to this conversation, but I wanted to point out >>>>>>>>> >>>>a >>>>> >>>>few >>>>>>>>> >>>>things. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>The only proposals for revision of the ITRs that will be >>>>>>>>> >>>>considered >>>>> >>>>at >>>>>>>>> >>>>the WCIT are from Member States or Regional groups (e.g., ATU, >>>>>>>>> >>>>CEPT). >>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>This means there are no ITU proposals to the WCIT. So where the >>>>>>>>> >>>>article >>>>>>>>> >>>>says "ITU proposal" it should say "country or regional proposal". >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>It also means there is no ETNO proposal to the WCIT. The text ETNO >>>>>>>>> >>>>have >>>>>>>>> >>>>proposed must be submitted by a country or region or it won't be >>>>>>>>> >>>>considered. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>The proposals that have been made public are not officially to be >>>>>>>>> >>>>considered at WCIT. The countries or regions must submit their >>>>>>>>> >>>>proposals >>>>>>>>> >>>>(again) directly to the WCIT. These country proposals to the WCIT >>>>>>>>> >>>>can >>>>> >>>>be >>>>>>>>> >>>>different from what has been made public. After reviewing the >>>>>>>>> >>>>current >>>>> >>>>submissions to WCIT I can say that some are different from what the >>>>>>>>> >>>>same >>>>>>>>> >>>>country or region proposed in the public document. A few of the >>>>>>>>> >>>>differences are important. So ITU would need to make TD-1 and its >>>>>>>>> >>>>revisions public to keep people informed as to the actual proposals >>>>>>>>> >>>>into >>>>>>>>> >>>>WCIT. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>ATU proposals are not yet available on the ITU website. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>Chip >>>>>>>>> >>>>**Disclaimer: these are my opinions and not those of Cisco or the >>>>>>>>> >>>>US >>>>> >>>>del.*** >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>On Oct 18, 2012, at 6:49 AM, "George Nyabuga" <george@afrinic.net> >>>>>>>>> >>>>wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>An interesting article in The Guardian, quoting, among others, our >>>>>>>>>> >>>>own >>>>>>>>>> >>>>Alice Munyua. But what the listers make of it? >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>See article at: >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/17/who-rules-internet?CMP= >>>>> >>>>twt_gu >>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>George >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>Dr George Nyabuga >>>>>>>>>> >>>>Tel: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>+230 403 51 00 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC Fax: +230 466 67 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>58 >>>>> >>>>george@afrinic.net - http://www.afrinic.net/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>---------------------------- >>>>> >>>>Join us at AFRINIC-17 for our Public Policy Meeting in Khartoum, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>Sudan, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>on 24 - 29 November 2012 >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>---------------------------- >>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>kictanet mailing list >>>>>>>>>> >>>>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>>>>>>>> >>>>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chsharp%40cisco.co >>>>> >>>>m >>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder >>>>>>>>>> >>>>platform >>>>>>>>>> >>>>for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy >>>>>>>>>> >>>>and >>>>> >>>>regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in >>>>>>>>>> >>>>the >>>>> >>>>ICT >>>>>>>>>> >>>>sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and >>>>>>>>>> >>>>development. >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable >>>>>>>>>> >>>>behaviors >>>>>>>>>> >>>>online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and >>>>>>>>>> >>>>bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>respect >>>>>>>>>> >>>>privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>kictanet mailing list >>>>>>>>> >>>>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>>>>>>> >>>>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein. >>>>> >>>>com >>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder >>>>>>>>> >>>>platform >>>>>>>>> >>>>for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy >>>>>>>>> >>>>and >>>>> >>>>regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the >>>>>>>>> >>>>ICT >>>>>>>>> >>>>sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and >>>>>>>>> >>>>development. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable >>>>>>>>> >>>>behaviors >>>>> >>>>online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and >>>>>>>>> >>>>bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, >>>>>>>>> >>>>respect >>>>>>>>> >>>>privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>-- >>>>>> >>>>______________________ >>>>>> >>>>Mwendwa Kivuva >>>>>> >>>>For >>>>>> >>>>Business Development >>>>>> >>>>Transworld Computer Channels >>>>>> >>>>Cel: 0722402248 >>>>>> >>>>twitter.com/lordmwesh >>>>>> >>>>transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing >>>>>> >>>>kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>kictanet mailing list >>>>>> >>>>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>>>> >>>>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>>>> >>>>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/omo%40cck.go.ke >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder >>>>>> >>>>platform >>>>> >>>>for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and >>>>>> >>>>regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the >>>>>> >>>>ICT >>>>> >>>>sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and >>>>>> >>>>development. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors >>>>>> >>>>online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and >>>>>> >>>>bandwidth, >>>>> >>>>share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, >>>>>> >>>>do >>>>> >>>>not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>kictanet mailing list >>>>>> >>>>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>>>> >>>>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>>>> >>>>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alice%40apc.org >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder >>>>>> >>>>platform >>>>> >>>>for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and >>>>>> >>>>regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the >>>>>> >>>>ICT >>>>> >>>>sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and >>>>>> >>>>development. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors >>>>>> >>>>online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and >>>>>> >>>>bandwidth, >>>>> >>>>share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, >>>>>> >>>>do >>>>> >>>>not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>kictanet mailing list >>>>> >>>>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>>> >>>>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>>> >>>>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wambua%40cck.go.ke >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform >>>>> >>>>for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and >>>>> >>>>regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT >>>>> >>>>sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and >>>>> >>>>development. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors >>>>> >>>>online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and >>>>> >>>>bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect >>>>> >>>>privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>kictanet mailing list >>>>> >>>>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>>> >>>>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dogwallah%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>kictanet mailing list >>>>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>> >>>>Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com >>>> >>>>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >>>> >>>>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>kictanet mailing list >>>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >>>Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mtnndaro%40yahoo.co.uk >>> >>>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >>> >>>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>_______________________________________________ >>kictanet mailing list >>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >>Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/daniel_obam%40yahoo.com >> >>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >> >>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >> >> >>_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>_______________________________________________ >>kictanet mailing list >>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >>Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com >> >>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >> >>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >> > >_______________________________________________ >kictanet mailing list >kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com > >The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. > >KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. > _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Walu Well put. Much as the CCK is well placed to lead these (as is their mandate) there's a feeling among certain 'non-state' players that the integration with other players isn't going far enough. For example it is now embedded in the constitution that certain information is no longer 'state secrets' and that certain government agencies are finding it hard to come to terms with this new dispensation. Regards Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Dec 3, 2012, at 2:37 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
I would want to agree with Brian as well. In that Ministry of Info and CCK do have extensive experience in dealing with ITU matters and we can only bank on them to steer the current negotiations on the ITRs in the best interest of the country. That said, I would also want to echo Alice concerns and add that perhaps this being the first time the Kenyan delegation has incorporated "non-state" actors in their delegation, it would have been nice to think through how their additional views could be effectively taken on board or otherwise.
In other words assuming that Kenyan position is aligned to the African Position - as reported at the preliminary meeting in Ghana - then to what extend have additional views arising from the last Stakeholders meeting in Nairobi been incorporated? And if those views were not taken on board, what was the rationale behind such a decision?
I know Wambua said the Kenyan Delegation had an internal meeting in Dubai last evening and perhaps these issues were tackled and it could have been nice to have some feedback. I think we all want the best for Kenya but have a different understanding on how to go about it. We simply need to take time to understand each others perspectives and we will likely get the best for the country/region in this ITU meeting.
walu.
From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: kandie@cck.go.ke; cpa@cck.go.ke; "kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:52 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS
Dear Matano, Obam, Wambua, Omo et al,
I for one, have confidence in the representation that the CCK-led Kenya delegation provides us with. I believe that your long experience in matters at the ITU level as well as with the consensus building and negotiation processes that take place therein will be of great benefit to us, not only as a nation but also as stakeholders in the internet industry.
We look forward to hearing back from you regarding the outcomes.
Best regards,
Brian
Brian Munyao Longwe | Mobile: 254715964281 http://mashilingi.blogspot.com Facebook Twitter LinkedIn Contact me: blongwe Want a signature like mine? Click here.
On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 9:13 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Listers
I want to echo Alice & Grace here. I DON'T REMEMBER THERE BEING A CONSENSUS THAT WE SUPPORT THE AfCPs!
Please see attached the report on the meeting of the 13th November. Bwana Obam I think you need to withdraw that statement as it is unrepresentative of the discourse on that day.
I am worried and I'm wondering what those of us who are going to Dubai will be contributing to when the Kenya Delegation is clearly not in agreement of what should be our National Position.
Ali Hussein
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo
On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> wrote: Obam
Thanks Obam and welcome to the list.
A few quick points:
1. I do not remember stakeholders agreeing that Kenya was going to support the AfCP during the meeting that took place on November 13th at Laico. And if that was the agreement, then what was the use of having the stakeholders consultation?
2. Could we have a clarity on stakeholder participation in relation to development of national positions?
3. Does it mean then that no position has changed and that Kenya is still going with the AfCP as was shared before the stakeholder meeting?
4. And yes there is inclusion in the Kenya Delegation though people have to source for their own funding. However, there is no clarity on their engagement.
Kind Regards Grace
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 07:02:26 -0800 From: daniel_obam@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS
CC: Kandie@cck.go.ke; CPA@cck.go.ke; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
Ndaro, This is my first ever contribution on KICTANET since it started about 7 years ago.
I wish to quote for you the final paragraph of the article by the Economist "Governments squabble over new rules for the internet" (http://www.economist.com/news/21567340-governments-squabble-over-new-rules-i...) which was also posted earlier on the list:
"Fears of an anti-Western putsch in Dubai, handing control of the internet to authoritarian governments, are overblown. Though in theory the ITU works by majority vote, in practice agreements are almost always reached by consensus. Moreover, the ITU has no power to foist rules on governments that refuse to bargain. A bigger danger is therefore deadlock. That might encourage a large pack of nations to set up their own internet regime, making communication with the rest of the world more costly and more complicated".
Perhaps all along it has never really been about national (and public) interest, security and ideals. Maybe it is all about commerce. So as a country THE choice is really ours.
NB: Our official position as indicated before, during and after the stakeholder meeting is support of the African Common Proposals(AFCPs) with the output of the stakeholder meeting assisting us in negotiating our final position during the conference. And I believe all those who spoke during the stakeholders meeting have been included in the Kenyan Government official delegation to WCIT and I believe some are already in Dubai right now.
Just thought I remind ourselves on what we discussed and agreed during the stakeholders meeting at the LAICO Hotel some 3 weeks back.
Kind regards
Daniel Obam From: Matano Ndaro <mtnndaro@yahoo.co.uk> To: daniel_obam@yahoo.com Cc: "Kandie, K Juma" <Kandie@cck.go.ke>; Consumer and Public Affairs <CPA@cck.go.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2012 3:36 PM Subject: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS
Dear All,
The WTSA, which sets the work program for the Telecommunication Standardization Sector (ITU-T) ended on 29th November, paving way for the WCIT. The Plenipotentiary Conference 2010 instructed the ITU Secretary General to organize the conference, to capture the tremendous changes and transformation that have taken place in the ICT sector. The last conference was held in Melbourne, Australia, in 1988.
Consequently, the ITU Council set up a working group to spearhead the process. The ITU-T Director has been the one organizing the process since the bulk of the substantive issues of the conference are related to standardization. Certainly, the outcome of the conference will be a product of a negotiated settlement, based on a lot of give and take. The most controversial subjects revolve around the role of governments in the purview of the Internet. Transparency, security,international accounting _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
BrianThere was never any doubt in the CCK led delegation in terms of their capacities and experience in leading the Kenya team into the ITU negotiations. We all have confidence in the team and take cognizance of the need to show a unified front in Dubai. We however asked for clarification on stakeholder participation in relation to development of national positions and more so taking into consideration the provisions of the new Constitution of Kenya, 2010 which provides for the participation of citizens as one of the national values and principles of governance. Article 10 inter alia provides that:- 10. (1) The national values and principles of governance in this Article bind all State organs, State officers, public officers and all persons whenever any of them––(a) applies or interprets this Constitution; (b) enacts, applies or interprets any law; or(c) makes or implements public policy decisions. (2) The national values and principles of governance include––(a) patriotism, national unity, sharing and devolution of power, the rule of law, democracy and participation of the people;... With Kind RegardsGG Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 22:52:51 +0300 From: blongwe@gmail.com Subject: Re: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS CC: kandie@cck.go.ke; cpa@cck.go.ke; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com Dear Matano, Obam, Wambua, Omo et al, I for one, have confidence in the representation that the CCK-led Kenya delegation provides us with. I believe that your long experience in matters at the ITU level as well as with the consensus building and negotiation processes that take place therein will be of great benefit to us, not only as a nation but also as stakeholders in the internet industry. We look forward to hearing back from you regarding the outcomes. Best regards, Brian Brian Munyao Longwe | Mobile: 254715964281 http://mashilingi.blogspot.com Facebook Twitter LinkedIn Contact me: blongwe Want a signature like mine? Click here. On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 9:13 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Listers I want to echo Alice & Grace here. I DON'T REMEMBER THERE BEING A CONSENSUS THAT WE SUPPORT THE AfCPs! Please see attached the report on the meeting of the 13th November. Bwana Obam I think you need to withdraw that statement as it is unrepresentative of the discourse on that day. I am worried and I'm wondering what those of us who are going to Dubai will be contributing to when the Kenya Delegation is clearly not in agreement of what should be our National Position. Ali Hussein Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> wrote: Obam Thanks Obam and welcome to the list. A few quick points: 1. I do not remember stakeholders agreeing that Kenya was going to support the AfCP during the meeting that took place on November 13th at Laico. And if that was the agreement, then what was the use of having the stakeholders consultation? 2. Could we have a clarity on stakeholder participation in relation to development of national positions? 3. Does it mean then that no position has changed and that Kenya is still going with the AfCP as was shared before the stakeholder meeting? 4. And yes there is inclusion in the Kenya Delegation though people have to source for their own funding. However, there is no clarity on their engagement. Kind Regards Grace Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 07:02:26 -0800 From: daniel_obam@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS CC: Kandie@cck.go.ke; CPA@cck.go.ke; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com Ndaro, This is my first ever contribution on KICTANET since it started about 7 years ago. I wish to quote for you the final paragraph of the article by the Economist "Governments squabble over new rules for the internet" (http://www.economist.com/news/21567340-governments-squabble-over-new-rules-i...) which was also posted earlier on the list: "Fears of an anti-Western putsch in Dubai, handing control of the internet to authoritarian governments, are overblown. Though in theory the ITU works by majority vote, in practice agreements are almost always reached by consensus. Moreover, the ITU has no power to foist rules on governments that refuse to bargain. A bigger danger is therefore deadlock. That might encourage a large pack of nations to set up their own internet regime, making communication with the rest of the world more costly and more complicated". Perhaps all along it has never really been about national (and public) interest, security and ideals. Maybe it is all about commerce. So as a country THE choice is really ours. NB: Our official position as indicated before, during and after the stakeholder meeting is support of the African Common Proposals(AFCPs) with the output of the stakeholder meeting assisting us in negotiating our final position during the conference. And I believe all those who spoke during the stakeholders meeting have been included in the Kenyan Government official delegation to WCIT and I believe some are already in Dubai right now. Just thought I remind ourselves on what we discussed and agreed during the stakeholders meeting at the LAICO Hotel some 3 weeks back. Kind regards Daniel Obam From: Matano Ndaro <mtnndaro@yahoo.co.uk> To: daniel_obam@yahoo.com Cc: "Kandie, K Juma" <Kandie@cck.go.ke>; Consumer and Public Affairs <CPA@cck.go.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2012 3:36 PM Subject: [kictanet] CAUTION ON HARDLINE POSITIONS Dear All, The WTSA, which sets the work program for the Telecommunication Standardization Sector (ITU-T) ended on 29th November, paving way for the WCIT. The Plenipotentiary Conference 2010 instructed the ITU Secretary General to organize the conference, to capture the tremendous changes and transformation that have taken place in the ICT sector. The last conference was held in Melbourne, Australia, in 1988. Consequently, the ITU Council set up a working group to spearhead the process. The ITU-T Director has been the one organizing the process since the bulk of the substantive issues of the conference are related to standardization. Certainly, the outcome of the conference will be a product of a negotiated settlement, based on a lot of give and take. The most controversial subjects revolve around the role of governments in the purview of the Internet. Transparency, security,international accounting and settlement, fair compensation, spam, numbering and freedom, among others, are some of the topics that will come under intense global scrutiny in the next two weeks. One school of thought advocates for the Internet to continue evolving on what is perceived to be an open, multi -stakeholder environment, while the other strongly feels that governments must have a role in the setting of rules governing the management of the resources that facilitate the evolution of the Internet, while allowing commercial entities, the freedom to freely negotiate. Network operators, buoyed by a number of national governments, are pushing for the recognition of not only the role they play in facilitating the delivery of content, but also for "fair" compensation for the use of their infrastructure in order to sustainably continue investing in the requisite facilities on which the net and its related services ride. Subjects such as fraud and internet security, which have become more and more complex will also be haggled upon vigorously. Content developers, advertisers, network operators, civili society, national governments, content sellers, bloggers, etc are pushing positions motivated by diverse persuasions. At the heart of the various divergent positions being put forward are deep-seated national, regional, and private strategic and economic interests. While some countries are clear on what they want, some may not be fully aware of the long-term consequences of the positions they may wish to take. Intense lobbying, innuendo, back-stabbing, misrepresentation, and pre-negotiations have been going on. Nevertheless, after the intense debates, the final product of WCIT will be a balance between and among the various positions. The ITU has come under intense pressure over the last few months and has been accused of habouring intentions of venturing into a domain it has no competence in and has been asked to focus on the arena of telecommunications. In its defence, the Union has insisted that, as a Member State based UN agency, it can only pursue an agenda put forward by its stakeholders and that it has no agenda of its own. The jury is still out but the truth will emerge once the veil is removed. The above notwithstanding, it's extremely important that we come to the conference with more than one strategies with the willingness for give and take, as long as we stay within the reasonable confines of our national interests. Countries are looking at the bigger longer-term picture based on regional and global interests. Countries pushing the freedom card must be aware that while the ethos of freedom are sacrosanct, there is no national edict that commands extra-territorial application and that a reasonable balance will have to be struck between and among many delicate interests. I can bet that even those countries that hold strong divergent positions have been engaging in prior negotiations to facilitate the spirit of consensus and compromise. It is within the foregoing context that we have to view the AfCPs; they constitute a position meant to facilitate positive engagement and compromise, bearing in mind the reality that no single position will, and can dictate the outcomes of the conference. These are negotiations folks, not a war of bravado and brinksmanship; it's not a contest between progress and anarchy. Remember, it has taken twenty four years to agree on a negotiation platform. Certainly, there has been winners and losers over this long period, and hence the need for a conference to streamline the operational and regulatory framework. There might be minimum changes, extensive changes, moderate changes or no change at all, respectively. We must defend our national position, whatever it might be, with facts, conviction and clarity, while respecting the right of others to hold different positions. The focus, folks, must be the bigger picture, informed by our carefully evaluated interests and the need to build beneficial alliances to the nation state. I repeat, nations have no friends, nations have interests. Bon voyage to those traveling to Dubai and Best Regards. Sent from my iPad On Dec 1, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: McTim Several stakeholders made submissions to CCK on the AfCPs where we expressed strong reservations to CCKs support of the AfCPs. Our submissions were taken into consideration in the final report on the stakeholders meeting held n the 13th of November. There will be a briefing on this on the eve of WCIT Dubai so I do hope this will be shared online. Regards Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media LtdPrincipal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Nov 30, 2012, at 10:42 PM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: Hi all, WCIT is just a few days away. Is Kenya still supporting the AfCPs, or the latest media reports : http://www.biztechafrica.com/article/kenya-oppose-review-internet-rules/4822... -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Wambua, Christopher <Wambua@cck.go.ke> wrote: Listers, I am pleased to inform you that we have uploaded the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) agreed upon in Ghana onto the CCK website. The AfCPs are available at http://www.cck.go.ke/links/consultations/current_consultations/African_C ommon_Proposals_the_ITRs_Rev.pdf As already communicated by my colleagues, CCK shall host a stakeholders meeting on 13th November 2012 to share the proposals or Kenya's position on ITRs and collect comments/input on the same from the industry and other interested parties. The venue of the stakeholders meeting shall be communicated in the course of the week. We look forward to receiving substantive comments on the ITRs ahead of the stakeholders meeting. Best regards, Christopher Wambua Manager/Communications Consumer and Public Affairs Division Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448, NAIROBI 00800 KENYA -----Original Message----- From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+wambua=cck.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of alice@apc.org Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 3:40 PM To: Wambua, Christopher Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? Dear all I agree with Omo. Is it possible to provide/discuss substantive comments to the current proposals for revisions of ITRs to assist the CCK finalize on developing a national position. However, I can also understand why some stakeholder are not able to contribute. It would have been good, in retrospect to have organized a session to dymystify the ITRs and the discuss the merits/demerits of the current proposals. Apologies for adding to the noise rather than contributing substantively. best Alice Thanks Nd Kivuva. Somehow, I didn't receive Nd Ali's response to mine which you seem to have responded to and for which I thank you. CCK had posted the AfCPs inviting views in order to prepare for the Ghana meeting and also the meeting in Dubai. We indicated that we subscribed to the same, having contributed to their development. There was also a request that we study Proposals from other Regions. Further, there was a promise then, and still is, that CCK would convene a meeting of Stakeholders before the meeting in Dubai. Giving or taking credit for pushing Government on its views on ITRs is inappropriate when the initiative was itself from Government/CCK. To date, much of what I hear is not on substantive input, either on the AfCPs or Proposals from other Regions, but clamour for a Stakeholders' meeting or posting such as "thanks for a promise of a breakfast meeting" or 'pushing Gov't on its views'! We are a growing to be a society more comfortable attending workshops/breakfast meetings rather than the actual 'on the table work.' Let me reiterate that the rubber will meet the road, not in the fact that CCK has organised a Stake holder's workshop, but in a delegation that has prepared its docs, read the meeting docs/docs from other Regions and prepared to present reasoned arguments. Even as we hail the promise of a breakfast meeting or giving credit for pushing Gov't, please let us read the postings and offer substantive comments. It would help if the local Secretariat can prepare documentation for the workshop/breakfast meeting based on views presented apriori. As mentioned earlier, the official report of Ghana is out and should be posted either today or tomorrow. Kind rgds. OMO, John, Commission Secretary, Communications Commission of Kenya, P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800. Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348 "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr. ________________________________ From: kictanet on behalf of Kivuva Sent: Sun 11/4/2012 18:42 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? Thank you Ali for pushing for a government position on ITRs. When there is silence it means that 1. The government is playing their position like a secret card that should not be shown in public. 2. We don't have a position. 3. We don't understand what is being discussed. Thanks Dr. Ndemo for the hint of a breakfast meeting to clear the air. Regards On 04/11/2012, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Ndugu Omo Thanks for your note. I had actually refrained from posting any comments because of the Ghana meeting. In retrospect may be I should have irrespective of the Ghana meeting. I must say that this kind of discourse is definitely helpful and goes a long way in calming the waters. I look forward to the stakeholders meeting in the 13th Nov. Regards Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Nov 4, 2012, at 9:06 AM, "Omo, John" <Omo@cck.go.ke> wrote: Noted and thanks Nd Ali. We had posted a draft of the African Common Proposals (AfCPs) amending the ITRs. The AfCPs were the culmination of two preparatory meetings by Stakeholders held in Cairo and Durban. Our request was that Kenyan Stakeholders study and forward comments on the same to assist in our preparations for the preparatory meeting held in Ghana and also for a Kenyan Stakeholders meeting before the Dubai meeting. I remember getting indications that you'd study the same and revert with your comments. We are still waiting. The way this works is this: in order to have better use of time at Conferences, stakeholders are encouraged develop proposals common to their regions. Of course Member States, being sovereign, can submit their individual proposals separate from and even in opposition to their Regions (See a number of US proposals or common to both the US and Canada, that are different from those of CITEL to which both countries are a member). But it is better that views that are similar to a region or inter-region/s are submitted and discussed as common proposals. That hastens consensus building and saves on time at the Conference. We had indicated that our views as a country was pretty much a long the proposed AfCPs to which we have contributed. The official outcome of the Ghana meeting is now out and has some improvements to the Durban draft. We are uploading the same early this week, again with a request to Stakeholders submit substantive comments that would aid in either endorsing/not endorsing the same. The proposals will still be debated strenuously at the Conference which will take decisions largely by way of consensus. Please, please let us study the draft proposals including those from other Regions - that is where the rubber will meet the road in Dubai. Tentatively, we plan to have a local stakeholders meeting on the 13th Nov. With kind rgds. OMO, John Commission Secretary Communications Commission of Kenya P.O. Box 14448 Nairobi 00800 Tel: +254 20 4242285/6 Cell: +254722523348 "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear" - Martin Luther King Jr. From: kictanet on behalf of Ali Hussein Sent: Sat 11/3/2012 09:17 To: Omo, John Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who controls the internet? Chip Thanks for the clarifications and updates. Listers I hate to bring this issue up again but should the utter and complete silence from the CCK on our country position raise red flags? Bwana DG Wangusi with all due respect to your good offices can we have some sort of statement on this issue? I believe it is critically important that we do know and I honestly believe that whatever that position is (whether it emanates from the IGF deliberations or not) it should now be made public. We are less than two months away from WCIT Dubai. Regards Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Nov 3, 2012, at 3:07 AM, "Chip Sharp (chsharp)" <chsharp@cisco.com> wrote: I'm sorry I'm late to this conversation, but I wanted to point out a few things. The only proposals for revision of the ITRs that will be considered at the WCIT are from Member States or Regional groups (e.g., ATU, CEPT). This means there are no ITU proposals to the WCIT. So where the article says "ITU proposal" it should say "country or regional proposal". It also means there is no ETNO proposal to the WCIT. The text ETNO have proposed must be submitted by a country or region or it won't be considered. The proposals that have been made public are not officially to be considered at WCIT. The countries or regions must submit their proposals (again) directly to the WCIT. These country proposals to the WCIT can be different from what has been made public. After reviewing the current submissions to WCIT I can say that some are different from what the same country or region proposed in the public document. A few of the differences are important. So ITU would need to make TD-1 and its revisions public to keep people informed as to the actual proposals into WCIT. ATU proposals are not yet available on the ITU website. Chip **Disclaimer: these are my opinions and not those of Cisco or the US del.*** On Oct 18, 2012, at 6:49 AM, "George Nyabuga" <george@afrinic.net> wrote: An interesting article in The Guardian, quoting, among others, our own Alice Munyua. But what the listers make of it? See article at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/17/who-rules-internet?CMP= twt_gu George Dr George Nyabuga Tel: +230 403 51 00 Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC Fax: +230 466 67 58 george@afrinic.net - http://www.afrinic.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------- Join us at AFRINIC-17 for our Public Policy Meeting in Khartoum, Sudan, on 24 - 29 November 2012 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chsharp%40cisco.co m The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein. com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva For Business Development Transworld Computer Channels Cel: 0722402248 twitter.com/lordmwesh transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/omo%40cck.go.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alice%40apc.org The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wambua%40cck.go.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dogwallah%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mtnndaro%40yahoo.co.uk The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/daniel_obam%40yahoo.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (11)
-
Ali Hussein -
Alice Munyua -
Brian Munyao Longwe -
Daniel Obam -
Grace Githaiga -
Matano Ndaro -
McTim -
robert yawe -
Walubengo J -
Wambua, Christopher -
wambua＠cck.go.ke