Re: [kictanet] Tandaa - An Honest Analysis
Hi all, The issue building up here is on HOW to generate local content and the ways not to do it. We have seen cases of ''how not to do it'' as per the mailinglists and websites facing complaints from listers here. I believe members can now find way on 'how to' generate and collate local content in solutions such as Ushahidi.com and BungeSMS.com that seek to exploit the pervasive nature of mobile telephony to increase citizen generated content on the web. Google Kenya has done a great job with Google maps that now has easily searchable maps of Nairobi even via mobile devices such as smartphones with GPS feature coupled with data through the GSM networks. A security & privacy question however arises here even as the content question has been addressed. On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote:
Wainaina
Know that the fact that you dont agree with someone doesnt mean that you must raid the media house.
Thats what you are trying to say here. We are discussing IT matters and what you bring are your personal problems.
If you have spammed my address and lists, why make noise? Blacklists them. I will handle that in another way and know that I am registered in this forum all through and this forum doesnt belong to Wainaina and the ealier you realise that the better for you. Lets discuss matters which help this nation and not go personal because let me assure you that for every on of my actions before and in th future, I have a perfect answer for them.
If you have a problem with BidiiAfrika send an email to bidiiafrika-owner@googlegroups.com.
And again on Media, I like NMG since they have toned rhetoric and very high voltage news unlike KTN and standard group which still report like Kenya is going to war. I disagree with them but surely I wont like anybody raiding them
Regards Alai
On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:
This is exactly the feedback I expected. I'm not at all disappointed as it has happened before.
KICTANet needs to do something about importing such conduct from other lists.
Wainaina
Hi all,
As indicated by Alex, spam & forced mailinglist subscriptions is a critical "local content" issue now that Alai has pointed fingers.
I have been forced onto lists that do not allow for unsubscribing thus I have marked Alai's address and his mailinglists as spam addresses.
Robert, please sort that out first so that the "traffic" and "subscription" numbers on your lists is a true reflection of subscription by choice rather than forced numbers.
I bet someone else has had the same experience with Kazi africa, bidii africa and other lists.
Wainaina. See the reply I gave to Gakuru. Blame your teacher and you have no use being in KICTANET if you cant even know how to operate simple email addresses in,lists
Alai
On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:
Hi all,
As indicated by Alex, spam & forced mailinglist subscriptions is a critical "local content" issue now that Alai has pointed fingers.
I have been forced onto lists that do not allow for unsubscribing thus I have marked Alai's address and his mailinglists as spam addresses.
Robert, please sort that out first so that the "traffic" and "subscription" numbers on your lists is a true reflection of subscription by choice rather than forced numbers.
I bet someone else has had the same experience with Kazi africa, bidii africa and other lists.
Wainaina
On 11/18/08, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
Alai,
I am somewhat now tempted to start a local content blog focusing on 'opinion influencers' and opinion shapers themselves - informed by the fact that, content is king and awaited 'future online content warfare' arrived a long time ago.
So despite excluding my skunkworks presentation from your firing squad, I shall nonetheless shoot back at you;)
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:37 AM, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote:
Mirembe
I have a very open and honest analysis of our Tandaa conference.
The facts which we must change is that Paul Kukubo, my big brother still sees it best to defend foreign companies and say that "eve if we want local content we must stilldo it with foreigners'.
Paul stated, "Let's realise that Internet is one. How can have 'our Internet' so shielded away for 'outsiders Internet' to the extent that 'our content' is only accessible to us yet somehow we expected to make money from 'outsiders' through 'our Internet'? Maybe we should not use downloaded [even-free] 'foreign' software, 'foreign' computers, 'foreign' concepts, nothing 'foreign' except only localyy made?" That was heavy!
Let me tell you a thing. We must focus on local mpaka it becomes music. When I saw the slides of Joe Mucheru, which apparently I have seen in every conference I have attended in which he is the speaker. The websites listed there, non were Kenyan. The fact that Mucheru works for a Carlifornian company and he is Kenyan should make Mucheru sell Kenya more.
Its what all (or at least the majority of) the people in that room were there *actually doing* Give Mucheru a break. (You stand accused of promoting 'foreign content' by using Google mailing lists;)
If you wanted a subscription website, you should have started with kenyalaw.org. If you wanted affiliates, mamamikes.com has affiliates. Lets focus on local. Lets give it lots
of
thought. We must give local examples and then mention the foreign ones just as an after-thought.
I wish you had asked ICT Board to make a presentation to the audience to articulate you point?
We want the companies to give the local content much thought and they can only do that when they think locally. When you make people believe
facebook is great, we wont head anywhere. See why Tanzanians are engaging more in bongo5.com and jamiiforums than facebook and others. They are actively loading pics and content and these two websites are really coming up well and considreing the age of the websites, we will see nice things from them. We should not glorify anything western. We must start appreciating our own facebook like Ngari has developed a good site, www.kasarani.com
Kasarani is your website, right? The conference was not a sales pitch for *anyone* but a conversation exploring various ways to promote local content.
When I started my start forum and blogging thing, jamiiforums.com, we had lots of problems. But we also had people telling us that the forum which is being run by my great friend Maxence, was going nowhere because Tanzanians don't speak a lot of English. See the site now. I don't think that there is any forum in this region with that kind of killer traffic.
Me, me, me again... Try a bit of our, our, our, country's local content.
There is no forum in this region which makes the government shakes like hell when issues are being analyzed there. And they are doing it most of the time in Swahili. We must focus on being local if we want local content.
'Government' is a strange 3-legged animal Executive, Legislature, and Judiciacy. If one makes this animal 'shake like hell,' that person ought to be in very serious trouble...
NMG bought a script from Germans and installed it on their site without a forum nor blogs for the senior writers. Why? No creativity. NTV, EasyFm and QFM are not online. A very good percentage of articles in Mailbox are plagiarized from blogs and forums without acknowledgement and
On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote: that articles
entertainment and lifestyle mazagines are plagiarized from magazines
in like
cosmopolitan and Elle sometimes word for word.
Why so excessive negative energy? There must be something NMG have done right?
The Tandaa website was .com and not .co.ke. Even if you are not hosting locally, you could still have had a local domain registration.
Had you tried http://www.tandaa.co.ke/ before the conference? BTW, I host websites abroad many times and I have no problems with it. It can be a business decision why host locally with painfully expensive ISP? Host 'politically incorrect' website at a pro-conformist provider 'anti-telcos' content with one of them.... etc.. It's a matrix of decision making procees..
The funniest thing I got from the conference, why would 6 or 7 speakers speak for 15 minutes each and then the forum audience is given 10 minutes to ask questions and suggestions?
The sun waits for no King and time has never been enough.
Do you know that the slides from Capital, NMG, Google, Homeboyz, Kictanet, ICT board, Strathmore, Rich, Cisco and others are shown to us almost in every conference we attend. They have become so predictable that the best place to get more stories and even slides which you have never seen is from the public.
Would you also be suggesting that new school textbooks be published every year?
Givingg 15 minutes to each speaker which is 105 minutes for the seven speakers then the audience asks and get replies in 10 minutes is really not correct and shows and attitude of escapism where te audience are feared that they might embarass the speakers with questions.
You just created conveniently suitable circumstances to arrive at your conclusion?
The other facts of the conference was ok. The moderator, Al Kags, was ok but I think that we can do alot of improvements by having power cable well spread for bloggers and also the Wi-Fi to be abit superior. I had to rely on my Zain unlimited since the ICT board Wi-fi kept shutting down.
Would it not have been fair to mention some of those 'ok' facts. Its called "fair commentating"
We also think that we can have an active network and the best place to start is now here in KICTANET. I see us turning KICTANET into an open vbulletin run forum with CMS managed frontpage like www.haitiwebs.com and www.mustangevolution.com. Vbulletin is so superior and it wont take us even a day to have this thing up and running.
Dunno..
Senior members, what do you think?
I just have. But allow me to add that *nix users have this thing about multi-thread thought processes which lead me to advice users to format their Windows and install *nix. It makes engagement multi-faceted critique and criticize when necessesary but also appreciate and praise excellent achievement.
Tandaa.08 was an excellent event and I wish the ICT board could explain to us who were the brains behind it. They can count on me for their next such conference.
Rider:
There is a clip one run NTV of an Edloret pharmacist who literary and severally slapped himself on the face upon being visited by Pharmacies and Poisons Board drug inspectors. Let's not always take the shrtest route to slap every great initiative, erroneously.
Also we avoid "local content spam", for example, forced mailing lists subscriptions;)
G'day,
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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-- Sent from my mobile device Made in Kenya Network Apt. B-8, Elite Park Ole Odume Road P. O. Box 72031 - 00200 Nairobi. Kenya Tel: +254-20-3590451 Cel: +254-722-811171 Cel: +254-735-370840 www.madeinkenya.org http://www.bungesms.com
Wainaina Thanks for this one I now agree with you and hiyo ni maendeleo The how is very key here. As for thee mailing list (mine), we are happy. If you are not and I have not addressed your problem, send me a mail showing the complaints you sent to me and was not addressed. I make sure that I address all complaints and dont discriminate and if you complain, infact I dont just remove you, I ban you so that my other buddies wont ever add you Regards Robert On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:
Hi all,
The issue building up here is on HOW to generate local content and the ways not to do it.
We have seen cases of ''how not to do it'' as per the mailinglists and websites facing complaints from listers here.
I believe members can now find way on 'how to' generate and collate local content in solutions such as Ushahidi.com and BungeSMS.com that seek to exploit the pervasive nature of mobile telephony to increase citizen generated content on the web.
Google Kenya has done a great job with Google maps that now has easily searchable maps of Nairobi even via mobile devices such as smartphones with GPS feature coupled with data through the GSM networks. A security & privacy question however arises here even as the content question has been addressed.
Wainaina
Know that the fact that you dont agree with someone doesnt mean that you must raid the media house.
Thats what you are trying to say here. We are discussing IT matters and what you bring are your personal problems.
If you have spammed my address and lists, why make noise? Blacklists
will handle that in another way and know that I am registered in this forum all through and this forum doesnt belong to Wainaina and the ealier you realise that the better for you. Lets discuss matters which help this nation and not go personal because let me assure you that for every on of my actions before and in th future, I have a perfect answer for them.
If you have a problem with BidiiAfrika send an email to bidiiafrika-owner@googlegroups.com.
And again on Media, I like NMG since they have toned rhetoric and very high voltage news unlike KTN and standard group which still report like Kenya is going to war. I disagree with them but surely I wont like anybody raiding them
Regards Alai
On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:
This is exactly the feedback I expected. I'm not at all disappointed as it has happened before.
KICTANet needs to do something about importing such conduct from other lists.
Wainaina
On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
As indicated by Alex, spam & forced mailinglist subscriptions is a critical "local content" issue now that Alai has pointed fingers.
I have been forced onto lists that do not allow for unsubscribing thus I have marked Alai's address and his mailinglists as spam addresses.
Robert, please sort that out first so that the "traffic" and "subscription" numbers on your lists is a true reflection of subscription by choice rather than forced numbers.
I bet someone else has had the same experience with Kazi africa, bidii africa and other lists.
Wainaina. See the reply I gave to Gakuru. Blame your teacher and you have no use being in KICTANET if you cant even know how to operate simple
addresses in,lists
Alai
On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:
Hi all,
As indicated by Alex, spam & forced mailinglist subscriptions is a critical "local content" issue now that Alai has pointed fingers.
I have been forced onto lists that do not allow for unsubscribing
I have marked Alai's address and his mailinglists as spam addresses.
Robert, please sort that out first so that the "traffic" and "subscription" numbers on your lists is a true reflection of subscription by choice rather than forced numbers.
I bet someone else has had the same experience with Kazi africa, bidii africa and other lists.
Wainaina
Alai,
I am somewhat now tempted to start a local content blog focusing on 'opinion influencers' and opinion shapers themselves - informed by the fact that, content is king and awaited 'future online content warfare' arrived a long time ago.
So despite excluding my skunkworks presentation from your firing squad, I shall nonetheless shoot back at you;)
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:37 AM, Robert Alai < alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote: > Mirembe > > I have a very open and honest analysis of our Tandaa conference. > > The facts which we must change is that Paul Kukubo, my big brother > still > sees it best to defend foreign companies and say that "eve if we > want > local > content we must stilldo it with foreigners'.
Paul stated, "Let's realise that Internet is one. How can have 'our Internet' so shielded away for 'outsiders Internet' to the extent that 'our content' is only accessible to us yet somehow we expected to make money from 'outsiders' through 'our Internet'? Maybe we should not use downloaded [even-free] 'foreign' software, 'foreign' computers, 'foreign' concepts, nothing 'foreign' except only localyy made?" That was heavy!
>Let me tell you a thing. We > must focus on local mpaka it becomes music. When I saw the slides of > Joe > Mucheru, which apparently I have seen in every conference I have attended > in > which he is the speaker. The websites listed there, non were Kenyan. > The > fact that Mucheru works for a Carlifornian company and he is Kenyan should > make Mucheru sell Kenya more.
Its what all (or at least the majority of) the people in that room were there *actually doing* Give Mucheru a break. (You stand accused of promoting 'foreign content' by using Google mailing lists;)
> If you wanted a subscription website, you > should have started with kenyalaw.org. If you wanted affiliates, > mamamikes.com has affiliates. Lets focus on local. Lets give it lots of > thought. We must give local examples and then mention the foreign ones > just > as an after-thought.
I wish you had asked ICT Board to make a presentation to the audience to articulate you point?
> We want the companies to give the local content much thought and > they can > only do that when they think locally. When you make people believe
On 11/18/08, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote: that
> facebook is great, we wont head anywhere. See why Tanzanians are engaging > more in bongo5.com and jamiiforums than facebook and others. They are > actively loading pics and content and these two websites are really coming > up well and considreing the age of the websites, we will see nice > things > from them. We should not glorify anything western. We must start > appreciating our own facebook like Ngari has developed a good site, > www.kasarani.com
Kasarani is your website, right? The conference was not a sales
for *anyone* but a conversation exploring various ways to promote local content.
> When I started my start forum and blogging thing, jamiiforums.com , we had > lots of problems. But we also had people telling us that the forum > which > is > being run by my great friend Maxence, was going nowhere because Tanzanians > don't speak a lot of English. See the site now. I don't think that > there > is > any forum in this region with that kind of killer traffic.
Me, me, me again... Try a bit of our, our, our, country's local content.
> There is no forum > in this region which makes the government shakes like hell when issues are > being analyzed there. And they are doing it most of the time in > Swahili. > We > must focus on being local if we want local content.
'Government' is a strange 3-legged animal Executive, Legislature, and Judiciacy. If one makes this animal 'shake like hell,' that person ought to be in very serious trouble...
> NMG bought a script from Germans and installed it on their site without a > forum nor blogs for the senior writers. Why? No creativity. NTV, EasyFm > and > QFM are not online. A very good percentage of articles in Mailbox > are > plagiarized from blogs and forums without acknowledgement and articles in > entertainment and lifestyle mazagines are plagiarized from magazines like > cosmopolitan and Elle sometimes word for word.
Why so excessive negative energy? There must be something NMG have done right?
> The Tandaa website was .com and not .co.ke. Even if you are not hosting > locally, you could still have had a local domain registration.
Had you tried http://www.tandaa.co.ke/ before the conference? BTW, I host websites abroad many times and I have no problems with it. It can be a business decision why host locally with painfully expensive ISP? Host 'politically incorrect' website at a pro-conformist provider 'anti-telcos' content with one of them.... etc.. It's a matrix of decision making procees..
> The funniest thing I got from the conference, why would 6 or 7 speakers > speak for 15 minutes each and then the forum audience is given 10 minutes > to ask questions and suggestions?
The sun waits for no King and time has never been enough.
>Do you know that the slides from Capital, > NMG, Google, Homeboyz, Kictanet, ICT board, Strathmore, Rich, Cisco and > others are shown to us almost in every conference we attend. They have > become so predictable that the best place to get more stories and even > slides which you have never seen is from the public.
Would you also be suggesting that new school textbooks be published every year?
>Givingg 15 minutes to > each speaker which is 105 minutes for the seven speakers then the audience > asks and get replies in 10 minutes is really not correct and shows and > attitude of escapism where te audience are feared that they might embarass > the speakers with questions.
You just created conveniently suitable circumstances to arrive at your conclusion?
> The other facts of the conference was ok. The moderator, Al Kags, > was > ok > but > I think that we can do alot of improvements by having power cable well > spread for bloggers and also the Wi-Fi to be abit superior. I had to rely > on > my Zain unlimited since the ICT board Wi-fi kept shutting down.
Would it not have been fair to mention some of those 'ok' facts. Its called "fair commentating"
> We also think that we can have an active network and the best
to
> start > is now here in KICTANET. I see us turning KICTANET into an open vbulletin > run forum with CMS managed frontpage like www.haitiwebs.com and > www.mustangevolution.com. Vbulletin is so superior and it wont take us > even > a day to have this thing up and running.
Dunno..
> Senior members, what do you think?
I just have. But allow me to add that *nix users have this thing about multi-thread thought processes which lead me to advice users to format their Windows and install *nix. It makes engagement multi-faceted critique and criticize when necessesary but also appreciate and praise excellent achievement.
Tandaa.08 was an excellent event and I wish the ICT board could explain to us who were the brains behind it. They can count on me for their next such conference.
Rider:
There is a clip one run NTV of an Edloret pharmacist who literary and severally slapped himself on the face upon being visited by Pharmacies and Poisons Board drug inspectors. Let's not always take the shrtest route to slap every great initiative, erroneously.
Also we avoid "local content spam", for example, forced mailing
On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote: them. I thus pitch place lists
subscriptions;)
G'day,
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: wainaina@madeinkenya.org
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Hi people, I've been following this conversation with interest (unnecessarily heated I must say). I have A couple of questions: What would be the definition of local content? - any content hosted locally - local content hosted anywhere - local content hosted locally - <something> This local content issue has been discussed over and over again. It would probably help if there's a general understanding of what local content is. As it is there's some confusion whether a swahili site hosted somewhere in Canada would qualify as local content. Maybe if this is clear, we could move towards the how to spur generation of local content. Is it ethical to add someone to an email list without their consent? - Yes - No And a couple of comments: If some people would feel that TANDAA was not what it should be, why not just organise what they'd consider an ideal showcase of local content? It's a free world. Personal attacks don't take us anywhere. I was not able to attend TANDAA due to other commitments. I've however learnt about kasarani.com, askadoc.co.ke from the various emails and blog posts. Interesting stuff. I wouldn't be able to give any assessment on the success or otherwise of the event, so I won't. An aside: would ushahidi.com be considered local content... considering that it's already being used as a tool within the conflict afflicted DRC. (check out www.ushahidi.com for more info) Looks like its more than just local. Regards Josiah On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote:
Wainaina
Thanks for this one
I now agree with you and hiyo ni maendeleo
The how is very key here.
As for thee mailing list (mine), we are happy. If you are not and I have not addressed your problem, send me a mail showing the complaints you sent to me and was not addressed. I make sure that I address all complaints and dont discriminate and if you complain, infact I dont just remove you, I ban you so that my other buddies wont ever add you
Regards Robert
On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:
Hi all,
The issue building up here is on HOW to generate local content and the ways not to do it.
We have seen cases of ''how not to do it'' as per the mailinglists and websites facing complaints from listers here.
I believe members can now find way on 'how to' generate and collate local content in solutions such as Ushahidi.com and BungeSMS.com that seek to exploit the pervasive nature of mobile telephony to increase citizen generated content on the web.
Google Kenya has done a great job with Google maps that now has easily searchable maps of Nairobi even via mobile devices such as smartphones with GPS feature coupled with data through the GSM networks. A security & privacy question however arises here even as the content question has been addressed.
Wainaina
Know that the fact that you dont agree with someone doesnt mean that you must raid the media house.
Thats what you are trying to say here. We are discussing IT matters and what you bring are your personal problems.
If you have spammed my address and lists, why make noise? Blacklists
will handle that in another way and know that I am registered in this forum all through and this forum doesnt belong to Wainaina and the ealier you realise that the better for you. Lets discuss matters which help this nation and not go personal because let me assure you that for every on of my actions before and in th future, I have a perfect answer for them.
If you have a problem with BidiiAfrika send an email to bidiiafrika-owner@googlegroups.com.
And again on Media, I like NMG since they have toned rhetoric and very high voltage news unlike KTN and standard group which still report like Kenya is going to war. I disagree with them but surely I wont like anybody raiding them
Regards Alai
On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:
This is exactly the feedback I expected. I'm not at all disappointed as it has happened before.
KICTANet needs to do something about importing such conduct from other lists.
Wainaina
On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
As indicated by Alex, spam & forced mailinglist subscriptions is a critical "local content" issue now that Alai has pointed fingers.
I have been forced onto lists that do not allow for unsubscribing
I have marked Alai's address and his mailinglists as spam addresses.
Robert, please sort that out first so that the "traffic" and "subscription" numbers on your lists is a true reflection of subscription by choice rather than forced numbers.
I bet someone else has had the same experience with Kazi africa, bidii africa and other lists.
Wainaina. See the reply I gave to Gakuru. Blame your teacher and you have no use being in KICTANET if you cant even know how to operate simple email addresses in,lists
Alai
On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:
Hi all,
As indicated by Alex, spam & forced mailinglist subscriptions is a critical "local content" issue now that Alai has pointed fingers.
I have been forced onto lists that do not allow for unsubscribing
I have marked Alai's address and his mailinglists as spam addresses.
Robert, please sort that out first so that the "traffic" and "subscription" numbers on your lists is a true reflection of subscription by choice rather than forced numbers.
I bet someone else has had the same experience with Kazi africa, bidii africa and other lists.
Wainaina
On 11/18/08, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote: > Alai, > > I am somewhat now tempted to start a local content blog focusing on > 'opinion influencers' and opinion shapers themselves - informed by > the > fact that, content is king and awaited 'future online content > warfare' > arrived a long time ago. > > So despite excluding my skunkworks presentation from your firing > squad, I shall nonetheless shoot back at you;) > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:37 AM, Robert Alai < alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote: >> Mirembe >> >> I have a very open and honest analysis of our Tandaa conference. >> >> The facts which we must change is that Paul Kukubo, my big brother >> still >> sees it best to defend foreign companies and say that "eve if we >> want >> local >> content we must stilldo it with foreigners'. > > Paul stated, "Let's realise that Internet is one. How can have 'our > Internet' so shielded away for 'outsiders Internet' to the extent > that > 'our content' is only accessible to us yet somehow we expected to > make money from 'outsiders' through 'our Internet'? Maybe we should > not use downloaded [even-free] 'foreign' software, 'foreign' > computers, 'foreign' concepts, nothing 'foreign' except only localyy > made?" That was heavy! > >>Let me tell you a thing. We >> must focus on local mpaka it becomes music. When I saw the slides of >> Joe >> Mucheru, which apparently I have seen in every conference I have attended >> in >> which he is the speaker. The websites listed there, non were Kenyan. >> The >> fact that Mucheru works for a Carlifornian company and he is Kenyan should >> make Mucheru sell Kenya more. > > Its what all (or at least the majority of) the people in that room > were there *actually doing* Give Mucheru a break. (You stand accused > of promoting 'foreign content' by using Google mailing lists;) > >> If you wanted a subscription website, you >> should have started with kenyalaw.org. If you wanted affiliates, >> mamamikes.com has affiliates. Lets focus on local. Lets give it lots of >> thought. We must give local examples and then mention the foreign ones >> just >> as an after-thought. > > I wish you had asked ICT Board to make a presentation to the audience > to articulate you point? > >> We want the companies to give the local content much thought and >> they can >> only do that when they think locally. When you make people believe that >> facebook is great, we wont head anywhere. See why Tanzanians are engaging >> more in bongo5.com and jamiiforums than facebook and others. They are >> actively loading pics and content and these two websites are really coming >> up well and considreing the age of the websites, we will see nice >> things >> from them. We should not glorify anything western. We must start >> appreciating our own facebook like Ngari has developed a good site, >> www.kasarani.com > > Kasarani is your website, right? The conference was not a sales
> for *anyone* but a conversation exploring various ways to promote > local content. > >> When I started my start forum and blogging thing, jamiiforums.com, we had >> lots of problems. But we also had people telling us that the forum >> which >> is >> being run by my great friend Maxence, was going nowhere because Tanzanians >> don't speak a lot of English. See the site now. I don't think
>> there >> is >> any forum in this region with that kind of killer traffic. > > Me, me, me again... Try a bit of our, our, our, country's local content. > >> There is no forum >> in this region which makes the government shakes like hell when issues are >> being analyzed there. And they are doing it most of the time in >> Swahili. >> We >> must focus on being local if we want local content. > > 'Government' is a strange 3-legged animal Executive, Legislature, and > Judiciacy. > If one makes this animal 'shake like hell,' that person ought to be > in > very serious trouble... > >> NMG bought a script from Germans and installed it on their site without a >> forum nor blogs for the senior writers. Why? No creativity. NTV, EasyFm >> and >> QFM are not online. A very good percentage of articles in Mailbox >> are >> plagiarized from blogs and forums without acknowledgement and articles in >> entertainment and lifestyle mazagines are plagiarized from magazines like >> cosmopolitan and Elle sometimes word for word. > > Why so excessive negative energy? There must be something NMG have done > right? > >> The Tandaa website was .com and not .co.ke. Even if you are not hosting >> locally, you could still have had a local domain registration. > > Had you tried http://www.tandaa.co.ke/ before the conference? BTW, I > host websites abroad many times and I have no problems with it. It > can > be a business decision why host locally with painfully expensive ISP? > Host 'politically incorrect' website at a pro-conformist provider > 'anti-telcos' content with one of them.... etc.. It's a matrix of > decision making procees.. > >> The funniest thing I got from the conference, why would 6 or 7 speakers >> speak for 15 minutes each and then the forum audience is given 10 minutes >> to ask questions and suggestions? > > The sun waits for no King and time has never been enough. > >>Do you know that the slides from Capital, >> NMG, Google, Homeboyz, Kictanet, ICT board, Strathmore, Rich, Cisco and >> others are shown to us almost in every conference we attend. They have >> become so predictable that the best place to get more stories and even >> slides which you have never seen is from the public. > > Would you also be suggesting that new school textbooks be
> every > year? > >>Givingg 15 minutes to >> each speaker which is 105 minutes for the seven speakers then the audience >> asks and get replies in 10 minutes is really not correct and shows and >> attitude of escapism where te audience are feared that they might embarass >> the speakers with questions. > > You just created conveniently suitable circumstances to arrive at > your > conclusion? > >> The other facts of the conference was ok. The moderator, Al Kags, >> was >> ok >> but >> I think that we can do alot of improvements by having power cable well >> spread for bloggers and also the Wi-Fi to be abit superior. I had to rely >> on >> my Zain unlimited since the ICT board Wi-fi kept shutting down. > > Would it not have been fair to mention some of those 'ok' facts. Its > called "fair commentating" > >> We also think that we can have an active network and the best
to
>> start >> is now here in KICTANET. I see us turning KICTANET into an open vbulletin >> run forum with CMS managed frontpage like www.haitiwebs.com and >> www.mustangevolution.com. Vbulletin is so superior and it wont take us >> even >> a day to have this thing up and running. > > Dunno.. > >> Senior members, what do you think? > > I just have. But allow me to add that *nix users have this thing > about > multi-thread thought processes which lead me to advice users to > format > their Windows and install *nix. It makes engagement multi-faceted > critique and criticize when necessesary but also appreciate and > praise > excellent achievement. > > Tandaa.08 was an excellent event and I wish the ICT board could > explain to us who were the brains behind it. They can count on me for > their next such conference. > > Rider: > > There is a clip one run NTV of an Edloret pharmacist who literary and > severally slapped himself on the face upon being visited by > Pharmacies > and Poisons Board drug inspectors. > Let's not always take the shrtest route to slap every great > initiative, erroneously. > > Also we avoid "local content spam", for example, forced mailing
On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote: them. I thus thus pitch that published place lists
> subscriptions;) > > G'day, >
> _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >
> This message was sent to: wainaina@madeinkenya.org
> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina%40madeinkenya....
>
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Josiah If someone doesnt agree with how Michael Joseph runs safaricom, they should be the CEO? Does that argument make sense at all. Should we not see anything wrong with the conference or anything organised by ICT board? Why are people having so much phobia for criticism? Arrogance and phobia wont stop us. Kenya is for the critics and the victims of the critics. Have an open mind and dont wish that we will just dissappear. I hold Paul Kukubo in high respect in this country. I stil have the first newspaper cutting from East Africa Standards when 3 mice came to being. I wanted to be a lawyer but that article made me pursue IT and to date. Nobody in this country's ICT will hold a dear place in my career like as Paul Kukubo and Betty Mwaniki. Telling me that if I dont agree with Raila's leadership then I also form my country and be the PM is cheap and doesnt say much about your professionalism Alai On 11/18/08, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi people,
I've been following this conversation with interest (unnecessarily heated I must say). I have
A couple of questions:
What would be the definition of local content?
- any content hosted locally - local content hosted anywhere - local content hosted locally - <something>
This local content issue has been discussed over and over again. It would probably help if there's a general understanding of what local content is. As it is there's some confusion whether a swahili site hosted somewhere in Canada would qualify as local content. Maybe if this is clear, we could move towards the how to spur generation of local content.
Is it ethical to add someone to an email list without their consent? - Yes - No
And a couple of comments:
If some people would feel that TANDAA was not what it should be, why not just organise what they'd consider an ideal showcase of local content? It's a free world. Personal attacks don't take us anywhere.
I was not able to attend TANDAA due to other commitments. I've however learnt about kasarani.com, askadoc.co.ke from the various emails and blog posts. Interesting stuff. I wouldn't be able to give any assessment on the success or otherwise of the event, so I won't.
An aside: would ushahidi.com be considered local content... considering that it's already being used as a tool within the conflict afflicted DRC. (check out www.ushahidi.com for more info) Looks like its more than just local.
Regards Josiah
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com>wrote:
Wainaina
Thanks for this one
I now agree with you and hiyo ni maendeleo
The how is very key here.
As for thee mailing list (mine), we are happy. If you are not and I have not addressed your problem, send me a mail showing the complaints you sent to me and was not addressed. I make sure that I address all complaints and dont discriminate and if you complain, infact I dont just remove you, I ban you so that my other buddies wont ever add you
Regards Robert
On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:
Hi all,
The issue building up here is on HOW to generate local content and the ways not to do it.
We have seen cases of ''how not to do it'' as per the mailinglists and websites facing complaints from listers here.
I believe members can now find way on 'how to' generate and collate local content in solutions such as Ushahidi.com and BungeSMS.com that seek to exploit the pervasive nature of mobile telephony to increase citizen generated content on the web.
Google Kenya has done a great job with Google maps that now has easily searchable maps of Nairobi even via mobile devices such as smartphones with GPS feature coupled with data through the GSM networks. A security & privacy question however arises here even as the content question has been addressed.
Wainaina
Know that the fact that you dont agree with someone doesnt mean that you must raid the media house.
Thats what you are trying to say here. We are discussing IT matters and what you bring are your personal problems.
If you have spammed my address and lists, why make noise? Blacklists
will handle that in another way and know that I am registered in this forum all through and this forum doesnt belong to Wainaina and the ealier you realise that the better for you. Lets discuss matters which help this nation and not go personal because let me assure you that for every on of my actions before and in th future, I have a perfect answer for them.
If you have a problem with BidiiAfrika send an email to bidiiafrika-owner@googlegroups.com.
And again on Media, I like NMG since they have toned rhetoric and very high voltage news unlike KTN and standard group which still report like Kenya is going to war. I disagree with them but surely I wont like anybody raiding them
Regards Alai
On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:
This is exactly the feedback I expected. I'm not at all disappointed as it has happened before.
KICTANet needs to do something about importing such conduct from other lists.
Wainaina
On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
As indicated by Alex, spam & forced mailinglist subscriptions is a critical "local content" issue now that Alai has pointed fingers.
I have been forced onto lists that do not allow for unsubscribing
I have marked Alai's address and his mailinglists as spam addresses.
Robert, please sort that out first so that the "traffic" and "subscription" numbers on your lists is a true reflection of subscription by choice rather than forced numbers.
I bet someone else has had the same experience with Kazi africa, bidii africa and other lists.
Wainaina. See the reply I gave to Gakuru. Blame your teacher and you have no use being in KICTANET if you cant even know how to operate simple email addresses in,lists
Alai
On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote: > > Hi all, > > As indicated by Alex, spam & forced mailinglist subscriptions is a > critical "local content" issue now that Alai has pointed fingers. > > I have been forced onto lists that do not allow for unsubscribing
> I have marked Alai's address and his mailinglists as spam addresses. > > Robert, please sort that out first so that the "traffic" and > "subscription" numbers on your lists is a true reflection of > subscription by choice rather than forced numbers. > > I bet someone else has had the same experience with Kazi africa, bidii > africa and other lists. > > Wainaina > > > On 11/18/08, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote: > > Alai, > > > > I am somewhat now tempted to start a local content blog focusing on > > 'opinion influencers' and opinion shapers themselves - informed by > > the > > fact that, content is king and awaited 'future online content > > warfare' > > arrived a long time ago. > > > > So despite excluding my skunkworks presentation from your firing > > squad, I shall nonetheless shoot back at you;) > > > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:37 AM, Robert Alai < alai.robert@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Mirembe > >> > >> I have a very open and honest analysis of our Tandaa conference. > >> > >> The facts which we must change is that Paul Kukubo, my big brother > >> still > >> sees it best to defend foreign companies and say that "eve if we > >> want > >> local > >> content we must stilldo it with foreigners'. > > > > Paul stated, "Let's realise that Internet is one. How can have 'our > > Internet' so shielded away for 'outsiders Internet' to the extent > > that > > 'our content' is only accessible to us yet somehow we expected to > > make money from 'outsiders' through 'our Internet'? Maybe we should > > not use downloaded [even-free] 'foreign' software, 'foreign' > > computers, 'foreign' concepts, nothing 'foreign' except only localyy > > made?" That was heavy! > > > >>Let me tell you a thing. We > >> must focus on local mpaka it becomes music. When I saw the slides of > >> Joe > >> Mucheru, which apparently I have seen in every conference I have > attended > >> in > >> which he is the speaker. The websites listed there, non were Kenyan. > >> The > >> fact that Mucheru works for a Carlifornian company and he is Kenyan > should > >> make Mucheru sell Kenya more. > > > > Its what all (or at least the majority of) the people in that room > > were there *actually doing* Give Mucheru a break. (You stand accused > > of promoting 'foreign content' by using Google mailing lists;) > > > >> If you wanted a subscription website, you > >> should have started with kenyalaw.org. If you wanted affiliates, > >> mamamikes.com has affiliates. Lets focus on local. Lets give it lots of > >> thought. We must give local examples and then mention the foreign ones > >> just > >> as an after-thought. > > > > I wish you had asked ICT Board to make a presentation to the audience > > to articulate you point? > > > >> We want the companies to give the local content much thought and > >> they > can > >> only do that when they think locally. When you make people believe that > >> facebook is great, we wont head anywhere. See why Tanzanians are > engaging > >> more in bongo5.com and jamiiforums than facebook and others. They are > >> actively loading pics and content and these two websites are really > coming > >> up well and considreing the age of the websites, we will see nice > >> things > >> from them. We should not glorify anything western. We must start > >> appreciating our own facebook like Ngari has developed a good site, > >> www.kasarani.com > > > > Kasarani is your website, right? The conference was not a sales
> > for *anyone* but a conversation exploring various ways to promote > > local content. > > > >> When I started my start forum and blogging thing, jamiiforums.com, we > had > >> lots of problems. But we also had people telling us that the forum > >> which > >> is > >> being run by my great friend Maxence, was going nowhere because > Tanzanians > >> don't speak a lot of English. See the site now. I don't think
> >> there > >> is > >> any forum in this region with that kind of killer traffic. > > > > Me, me, me again... Try a bit of our, our, our, country's local content. > > > >> There is no forum > >> in this region which makes the government shakes like hell when issues > are > >> being analyzed there. And they are doing it most of the time in > >> Swahili. > >> We > >> must focus on being local if we want local content. > > > > 'Government' is a strange 3-legged animal Executive, Legislature, and > > Judiciacy. > > If one makes this animal 'shake like hell,' that person ought to be > > in > > very serious trouble... > > > >> NMG bought a script from Germans and installed it on their site without > a > >> forum nor blogs for the senior writers. Why? No creativity. NTV, EasyFm > >> and > >> QFM are not online. A very good percentage of articles in Mailbox > >> are > >> plagiarized from blogs and forums without acknowledgement and articles > in > >> entertainment and lifestyle mazagines are plagiarized from magazines > like > >> cosmopolitan and Elle sometimes word for word. > > > > Why so excessive negative energy? There must be something NMG have done > > right? > > > >> The Tandaa website was .com and not .co.ke. Even if you are not hosting > >> locally, you could still have had a local domain registration. > > > > Had you tried http://www.tandaa.co.ke/ before the conference? BTW, I > > host websites abroad many times and I have no problems with it. It > > can > > be a business decision why host locally with painfully expensive ISP? > > Host 'politically incorrect' website at a pro-conformist provider > > 'anti-telcos' content with one of them.... etc.. It's a matrix of > > decision making procees.. > > > >> The funniest thing I got from the conference, why would 6 or 7 speakers > >> speak for 15 minutes each and then the forum audience is given 10 > minutes > >> to ask questions and suggestions? > > > > The sun waits for no King and time has never been enough. > > > >>Do you know that the slides from Capital, > >> NMG, Google, Homeboyz, Kictanet, ICT board, Strathmore, Rich, Cisco and > >> others are shown to us almost in every conference we attend. They have > >> become so predictable that the best place to get more stories and even > >> slides which you have never seen is from the public. > > > > Would you also be suggesting that new school textbooks be
> > every > > year? > > > >>Givingg 15 minutes to > >> each speaker which is 105 minutes for the seven speakers then
> audience > >> asks and get replies in 10 minutes is really not correct and shows and > >> attitude of escapism where te audience are feared that they might > embarass > >> the speakers with questions. > > > > You just created conveniently suitable circumstances to arrive at > > your > > conclusion? > > > >> The other facts of the conference was ok. The moderator, Al Kags, > >> was > >> ok > >> but > >> I think that we can do alot of improvements by having power cable well > >> spread for bloggers and also the Wi-Fi to be abit superior. I had to > rely > >> on > >> my Zain unlimited since the ICT board Wi-fi kept shutting down. > > > > Would it not have been fair to mention some of those 'ok' facts. Its > > called "fair commentating" > > > >> We also think that we can have an active network and the best
to
> >> start > >> is now here in KICTANET. I see us turning KICTANET into an open > vbulletin > >> run forum with CMS managed frontpage like www.haitiwebs.com and > >> www.mustangevolution.com. Vbulletin is so superior and it wont take us > >> even > >> a day to have this thing up and running. > > > > Dunno.. > > > >> Senior members, what do you think? > > > > I just have. But allow me to add that *nix users have this thing > > about > > multi-thread thought processes which lead me to advice users to > > format > > their Windows and install *nix. It makes engagement multi-faceted > > critique and criticize when necessesary but also appreciate and > > praise > > excellent achievement. > > > > Tandaa.08 was an excellent event and I wish the ICT board could > > explain to us who were the brains behind it. They can count on me for > > their next such conference. > > > > Rider: > > > > There is a clip one run NTV of an Edloret pharmacist who literary and > > severally slapped himself on the face upon being visited by > > Pharmacies > > and Poisons Board drug inspectors. > > Let's not always take the shrtest route to slap every great > > initiative, erroneously. > > > > Also we avoid "local content spam", for example, forced mailing
On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote: them. I thus thus pitch that published the place lists
> > subscriptions;) > > > > G'day, > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > kictanet mailing list > > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > > This message was sent to: wainaina@madeinkenya.org > > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > > > >
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina%40madeinkenya....
> > > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > Made in Kenya Network > Apt. B-8, Elite Park > Ole Odume Road > P. O. Box 72031 - 00200 > Nairobi. Kenya > Tel: +254-20-3590451 > Cel: +254-722-811171 > Cel: +254-735-370840 > www.madeinkenya.org > > http://www.bungesms.com > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > This message was sent to: alai.robert@gmail.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at >
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alai.robert%40gmail.com
>
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-- Josiah Mugambi +254 738 504418
SK Classifeds... Visit stockskenya.co.ke for more info.
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This message was sent to: alai.robert@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alai.robert%40gmail.com
Fantastic discussion anyway, this comments should be viewed in the right perspective even though they are scathing at times, i guess we are heading somewhere albeit at a slow pace Regards On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote:
Josiah
If someone doesnt agree with how Michael Joseph runs safaricom, they should be the CEO?
Does that argument make sense at all. Should we not see anything wrong with the conference or anything organised by ICT board?
Why are people having so much phobia for criticism? Arrogance and phobia wont stop us. Kenya is for the critics and the victims of the critics.
Have an open mind and dont wish that we will just dissappear. I hold Paul Kukubo in high respect in this country. I stil have the first newspaper cutting from East Africa Standards when 3 mice came to being. I wanted to be a lawyer but that article made me pursue IT and to date. Nobody in this country's ICT will hold a dear place in my career like as Paul Kukubo and Betty Mwaniki.
Telling me that if I dont agree with Raila's leadership then I also form my country and be the PM is cheap and doesnt say much about your professionalism
Alai
On 11/18/08, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi people,
I've been following this conversation with interest (unnecessarily heated I must say). I have
A couple of questions:
What would be the definition of local content?
- any content hosted locally - local content hosted anywhere - local content hosted locally - <something>
This local content issue has been discussed over and over again. It would probably help if there's a general understanding of what local content is. As it is there's some confusion whether a swahili site hosted somewhere in Canada would qualify as local content. Maybe if this is clear, we could move towards the how to spur generation of local content.
Is it ethical to add someone to an email list without their consent? - Yes - No
And a couple of comments:
If some people would feel that TANDAA was not what it should be, why not just organise what they'd consider an ideal showcase of local content? It's a free world. Personal attacks don't take us anywhere.
I was not able to attend TANDAA due to other commitments. I've however learnt about kasarani.com, askadoc.co.ke from the various emails and blog posts. Interesting stuff. I wouldn't be able to give any assessment on the success or otherwise of the event, so I won't.
An aside: would ushahidi.com be considered local content... considering that it's already being used as a tool within the conflict afflicted DRC. (check out www.ushahidi.com for more info) Looks like its more than just local.
Regards Josiah
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com>wrote:
Wainaina
Thanks for this one
I now agree with you and hiyo ni maendeleo
The how is very key here.
As for thee mailing list (mine), we are happy. If you are not and I have not addressed your problem, send me a mail showing the complaints you sent to me and was not addressed. I make sure that I address all complaints and dont discriminate and if you complain, infact I dont just remove you, I ban you so that my other buddies wont ever add you
Regards Robert
On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:
Hi all,
The issue building up here is on HOW to generate local content and the ways not to do it.
We have seen cases of ''how not to do it'' as per the mailinglists and websites facing complaints from listers here.
I believe members can now find way on 'how to' generate and collate local content in solutions such as Ushahidi.com and BungeSMS.com that seek to exploit the pervasive nature of mobile telephony to increase citizen generated content on the web.
Google Kenya has done a great job with Google maps that now has easily searchable maps of Nairobi even via mobile devices such as smartphones with GPS feature coupled with data through the GSM networks. A security & privacy question however arises here even as the content question has been addressed.
Wainaina
Know that the fact that you dont agree with someone doesnt mean that you must raid the media house.
Thats what you are trying to say here. We are discussing IT matters and what you bring are your personal problems.
If you have spammed my address and lists, why make noise? Blacklists
will handle that in another way and know that I am registered in this forum all through and this forum doesnt belong to Wainaina and the ealier you realise that the better for you. Lets discuss matters which help this nation and not go personal because let me assure you that for every on of my actions before and in th future, I have a perfect answer for them.
If you have a problem with BidiiAfrika send an email to bidiiafrika-owner@googlegroups.com.
And again on Media, I like NMG since they have toned rhetoric and very high voltage news unlike KTN and standard group which still report like Kenya is going to war. I disagree with them but surely I wont like anybody raiding them
Regards Alai
On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:
This is exactly the feedback I expected. I'm not at all disappointed as it has happened before.
KICTANet needs to do something about importing such conduct from other lists.
Wainaina
On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > As indicated by Alex, spam & forced mailinglist subscriptions is a > critical "local content" issue now that Alai has pointed fingers. > > I have been forced onto lists that do not allow for unsubscribing
> I have marked Alai's address and his mailinglists as spam > addresses. > > Robert, please sort that out first so that the "traffic" and > "subscription" numbers on your lists is a true reflection of > subscription by choice rather than forced numbers. > > I bet someone else has had the same experience with Kazi africa, bidii > africa and other lists. > > Wainaina. See the reply I gave to Gakuru. Blame your teacher and > you > have no > use being in KICTANET if you cant even know how to operate simple email > addresses in,lists > > > Alai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> As indicated by Alex, spam & forced mailinglist subscriptions is a >> critical "local content" issue now that Alai has pointed fingers. >> >> I have been forced onto lists that do not allow for unsubscribing
>> I have marked Alai's address and his mailinglists as spam addresses. >> >> Robert, please sort that out first so that the "traffic" and >> "subscription" numbers on your lists is a true reflection of >> subscription by choice rather than forced numbers. >> >> I bet someone else has had the same experience with Kazi africa, bidii >> africa and other lists. >> >> Wainaina >> >> >> On 11/18/08, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Alai, >> > >> > I am somewhat now tempted to start a local content blog focusing on >> > 'opinion influencers' and opinion shapers themselves - informed by >> > the >> > fact that, content is king and awaited 'future online content >> > warfare' >> > arrived a long time ago. >> > >> > So despite excluding my skunkworks presentation from your firing >> > squad, I shall nonetheless shoot back at you;) >> > >> > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:37 AM, Robert Alai < alai.robert@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Mirembe >> >> >> >> I have a very open and honest analysis of our Tandaa >> >> conference. >> >> >> >> The facts which we must change is that Paul Kukubo, my big brother >> >> still >> >> sees it best to defend foreign companies and say that "eve if >> >> we >> >> want >> >> local >> >> content we must stilldo it with foreigners'. >> > >> > Paul stated, "Let's realise that Internet is one. How can have 'our >> > Internet' so shielded away for 'outsiders Internet' to the >> > extent >> > that >> > 'our content' is only accessible to us yet somehow we expected to >> > make money from 'outsiders' through 'our Internet'? Maybe we should >> > not use downloaded [even-free] 'foreign' software, 'foreign' >> > computers, 'foreign' concepts, nothing 'foreign' except only localyy >> > made?" That was heavy! >> > >> >>Let me tell you a thing. We >> >> must focus on local mpaka it becomes music. When I saw the slides of >> >> Joe >> >> Mucheru, which apparently I have seen in every conference I >> >> have >> attended >> >> in >> >> which he is the speaker. The websites listed there, non were Kenyan. >> >> The >> >> fact that Mucheru works for a Carlifornian company and he is Kenyan >> should >> >> make Mucheru sell Kenya more. >> > >> > Its what all (or at least the majority of) the people in that room >> > were there *actually doing* Give Mucheru a break. (You stand accused >> > of promoting 'foreign content' by using Google mailing lists;) >> > >> >> If you wanted a subscription website, you >> >> should have started with kenyalaw.org. If you wanted affiliates, >> >> mamamikes.com has affiliates. Lets focus on local. Lets give it lots of >> >> thought. We must give local examples and then mention the foreign ones >> >> just >> >> as an after-thought. >> > >> > I wish you had asked ICT Board to make a presentation to the audience >> > to articulate you point? >> > >> >> We want the companies to give the local content much thought >> >> and >> >> they >> can >> >> only do that when they think locally. When you make people believe that >> >> facebook is great, we wont head anywhere. See why Tanzanians >> >> are >> engaging >> >> more in bongo5.com and jamiiforums than facebook and others. They are >> >> actively loading pics and content and these two websites are really >> coming >> >> up well and considreing the age of the websites, we will see nice >> >> things >> >> from them. We should not glorify anything western. We must >> >> start >> >> appreciating our own facebook like Ngari has developed a good site, >> >> www.kasarani.com >> > >> > Kasarani is your website, right? The conference was not a sales
>> > for *anyone* but a conversation exploring various ways to >> > promote >> > local content. >> > >> >> When I started my start forum and blogging thing, jamiiforums.com, we >> had >> >> lots of problems. But we also had people telling us that the forum >> >> which >> >> is >> >> being run by my great friend Maxence, was going nowhere because >> Tanzanians >> >> don't speak a lot of English. See the site now. I don't think
>> >> there >> >> is >> >> any forum in this region with that kind of killer traffic. >> > >> > Me, me, me again... Try a bit of our, our, our, country's local content. >> > >> >> There is no forum >> >> in this region which makes the government shakes like hell when issues >> are >> >> being analyzed there. And they are doing it most of the time in >> >> Swahili. >> >> We >> >> must focus on being local if we want local content. >> > >> > 'Government' is a strange 3-legged animal Executive, >> > Legislature, and >> > Judiciacy. >> > If one makes this animal 'shake like hell,' that person ought to be >> > in >> > very serious trouble... >> > >> >> NMG bought a script from Germans and installed it on their site without >> a >> >> forum nor blogs for the senior writers. Why? No creativity. >> >> NTV, EasyFm >> >> and >> >> QFM are not online. A very good percentage of articles in Mailbox >> >> are >> >> plagiarized from blogs and forums without acknowledgement and articles >> in >> >> entertainment and lifestyle mazagines are plagiarized from magazines >> like >> >> cosmopolitan and Elle sometimes word for word. >> > >> > Why so excessive negative energy? There must be something NMG have done >> > right? >> > >> >> The Tandaa website was .com and not .co.ke. Even if you are not hosting >> >> locally, you could still have had a local domain registration. >> > >> > Had you tried http://www.tandaa.co.ke/ before the conference? BTW, I >> > host websites abroad many times and I have no problems with it. It >> > can >> > be a business decision why host locally with painfully expensive ISP? >> > Host 'politically incorrect' website at a pro-conformist >> > provider >> > 'anti-telcos' content with one of them.... etc.. It's a matrix >> > of >> > decision making procees.. >> > >> >> The funniest thing I got from the conference, why would 6 or 7 speakers >> >> speak for 15 minutes each and then the forum audience is given 10 >> minutes >> >> to ask questions and suggestions? >> > >> > The sun waits for no King and time has never been enough. >> > >> >>Do you know that the slides from Capital, >> >> NMG, Google, Homeboyz, Kictanet, ICT board, Strathmore, Rich, Cisco and >> >> others are shown to us almost in every conference we attend. They have >> >> become so predictable that the best place to get more stories and even >> >> slides which you have never seen is from the public. >> > >> > Would you also be suggesting that new school textbooks be
>> > every >> > year? >> > >> >>Givingg 15 minutes to >> >> each speaker which is 105 minutes for the seven speakers then
>> audience >> >> asks and get replies in 10 minutes is really not correct and shows and >> >> attitude of escapism where te audience are feared that they might >> embarass >> >> the speakers with questions. >> > >> > You just created conveniently suitable circumstances to arrive >> > at >> > your >> > conclusion? >> > >> >> The other facts of the conference was ok. The moderator, Al Kags, >> >> was >> >> ok >> >> but >> >> I think that we can do alot of improvements by having power cable well >> >> spread for bloggers and also the Wi-Fi to be abit superior. I had to >> rely >> >> on >> >> my Zain unlimited since the ICT board Wi-fi kept shutting down. >> > >> > Would it not have been fair to mention some of those 'ok' facts. Its >> > called "fair commentating" >> > >> >> We also think that we can have an active network and the best
to >> >> start >> >> is now here in KICTANET. I see us turning KICTANET into an open >> vbulletin >> >> run forum with CMS managed frontpage like www.haitiwebs.com and >> >> www.mustangevolution.com. Vbulletin is so superior and it wont take us >> >> even >> >> a day to have this thing up and running. >> > >> > Dunno.. >> > >> >> Senior members, what do you think? >> > >> > I just have. But allow me to add that *nix users have this thing >> > about >> > multi-thread thought processes which lead me to advice users to >> > format >> > their Windows and install *nix. It makes engagement >> > multi-faceted >> > critique and criticize when necessesary but also appreciate and >> > praise >> > excellent achievement. >> > >> > Tandaa.08 was an excellent event and I wish the ICT board could >> > explain to us who were the brains behind it. They can count on >> > me for >> > their next such conference. >> > >> > Rider: >> > >> > There is a clip one run NTV of an Edloret pharmacist who >> > literary and >> > severally slapped himself on the face upon being visited by >> > Pharmacies >> > and Poisons Board drug inspectors. >> > Let's not always take the shrtest route to slap every great >> > initiative, erroneously. >> > >> > Also we avoid "local content spam", for example, forced mailing
On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote: them. I thus thus pitch that published the place lists
>> > subscriptions;) >> > >> > G'day, >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > kictanet mailing list >> > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> > >> >> > This message was sent to: wainaina@madeinkenya.org >> >> > Unsubscribe or change your options at >> >> > >>
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina%40madeinkenya....
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>> >
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My last thoughts on this before it becomes more like a blogging site. Robert, you are still unable to define local content and therefore unable to match any criticism or critic. Mixing small words with bigger words for the sake of it is the usual illusion. I think the severe arrogance and phobia of local everything ( of course with the usual spices such as politics, leaders and events, esle the traffic to sites would not exist ) is over-rated and the best effort so far according to you for local content is a website that I'd never visit or waste any time on. So simply moving forward, and as Josiah and the others mentioned : Define local content and we will start to get somewhere. Get to the point.
Hi, one can always run their own company etc etc I'm not good at arguing for the sake of arguing so let that rest. positive criticism is good - but what I learnt from my primary school headmaster a while ago was - Criticize AND suggest. so back to the key issue: Tandaa and the definition of local content .. kogelo.co.ke qualifies does it not? there's been many IT conferences this year as well, maybe it would also help to look at all of them too and see where to improve as regards promotion of local content. This would be useful info when planning next years activities.. Josiah On 11/18/08, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
My last thoughts on this before it becomes more like a blogging site. Robert, you are still unable to define local content and therefore unable to match any criticism or critic. Mixing small words with bigger words for the sake of it is the usual illusion. I think the severe arrogance and phobia of local everything ( of course with the usual spices such as politics, leaders and events, esle the traffic to sites would not exist ) is over-rated and the best effort so far according to you for local content is a website that I'd never visit or waste any time on.
So simply moving forward, and as Josiah and the others mentioned : Define local content and we will start to get somewhere.
Get to the point.
-- Sent from my mobile device Josiah Mugambi +254 738 504418 http://blog.josiahmugambi.com SK Classifeds... Visit stockskenya.co.ke for more info.
Kogelo.co.ke is a local address and an address without content is simply nothing The UNESCO def. of local content is here http://portal.unesco.org/ci/en/ev.php-URL_ID=4237&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html I liked the Strathmore ICT conference. They were so organized and every place the students handled well except the auditorium which didnt have tables for bloggers and laptops and no live reportings. The general organisation of the strathmore conference sincethe 1st in KICC aphitheater have been good. The thing which Tandaa needs to improve I did indicate and also stated what I think we should consider putting. But the people who fear criticism saw it as fighting their event. On 11/18/08, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
one can always run their own company etc etc I'm not good at arguing for the sake of arguing so let that rest.
positive criticism is good - but what I learnt from my primary school headmaster a while ago was - Criticize AND suggest.
so back to the key issue: Tandaa and the definition of local content .. kogelo.co.ke qualifies does it not?
there's been many IT conferences this year as well, maybe it would also help to look at all of them too and see where to improve as regards promotion of local content. This would be useful info when planning next years activities..
Josiah
On 11/18/08, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
My last thoughts on this before it becomes more like a blogging site. Robert, you are still unable to define local content and therefore unable to match any criticism or critic. Mixing small words with bigger words for the sake of it is the usual illusion. I think the severe arrogance and phobia of local everything ( of course with the usual spices such as politics, leaders and events, esle the traffic to sites would not exist ) is over-rated and the best effort so far according to you for local content is a website that I'd never visit or waste any time on.
So simply moving forward, and as Josiah and the others mentioned : Define local content and we will start to get somewhere.
Get to the point.
--
Sent from my mobile device
Josiah Mugambi +254 738 504418
SK Classifeds... Visit stockskenya.co.ke for more info.
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Dear All: I hope the definitions below help to inform the discourse? What is local content? Answer After decades of emphasis on providing access to the new communication and information technologies, the international community and development agencies are now asking themselves a very crucial question: access to what? During the last few years there has been a growing recognition of the need to generate local content and make it available through new and traditional media in order to empower communities and lead them to an inclusive knowledge society. Local content is the expression and communication of a community's locally owned and adapted knowledge and experience that is relevant to the community's situation . The process of creating and disseminating local content provides opportunities for members of the community to interact and communicate with each other, expressing their own ideas, knowledge and culture in their own language. A community is defined by its location, culture, language, or area of interest. A community can comprise a whole region, a sub-region, a nation, a village or a group of people with strong cultural, linguistic, religious or common interest links. Thus, a community may comprise of a handful of people or include millions; its members may share the same location or be geographically dispersed. Communities are not static or exclusive and individuals may belong to many communities at the same time. For example, a woman living in a village in Mali may feel strong ties with the community of women in her sub-region, take active part in the life of the community of her village and, at the same time, be a member of the Muslim community and the artists' collective of Mali. The need for local content The lack of local content is evident across all media and information channels. One needs to spend just a few minutes in front of a television or computer screen to notice the overwhelming presence of content coming from content providers in the developed countries, reflecting language, values and lifestyles which are often vastly different from those of the community "consuming" the content. Content does not flow of its own accord; it needs owners or originators with the motivation to create, adapt or exchange it. Obviously, the agencies that 'push' global or non-local content are more powerful and resourceful than those disseminating local content. With a few exceptions (e.g. the telephone, community radio, or indigenous knowledge systems), most formal content and communication 'channels' in developing countries help to push 'external' content into local communities. Counter efforts to distribute local content (such as African film, Asian research publications, 'southern voices' in the media, or the e-trading of traditional crafts) to global networks face an uphill struggle. While the importance of local content has often been raised in many international meetings and by numerous donors and cooperation agencies, concrete initiatives and expertise in this area are scarce. Many, if not most, content initiatives using ICTs tend to 'push' external content towards local communities. In other words, they mainly provide 'access' to other people's knowledge. With a few exceptions, new technologies are not used to strengthen the 'push' of local content from local people. Generally, the balance between 'push' and 'pull' - or supply and demand - is heavily weighted towards non-local rather than local content. It is important to note here that, while everyone is impressed by the potential that the new ICTs offer for sharing and exchanging local content, in many cases the 'new' technologies are still tape recorders, radio, television, newspapers, or telephones. ICTs and the Internet are still a small percentage of the 'toolkit' used to create and communicate local content. Regards Eric Aligula Magolo, PhD Senior Analyst Infrastructure and Economic Services Division Kenya Institute for Public Policy Research and Analysis (KIPPRA) P.O. Box 56445, 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Telephone: +254-20-2719933/4 Fax: +254-20-2719951 E-mail: jairah@kippra.or.ke <mailto:jairah@kippra.or.ke> URL: www.kippra.org <http://www.kippra.org/> Proudly Kenyan "In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility..........I welcome it." John F. Kennedy "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke "Far better to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory, nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt "Ex Africa semper aliquid novi" From: kictanet-bounces+jairah=kippra.or.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+jairah=kippra.or.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of aki Sent: 18 November 2008 15:27 To: Eric Aligula Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Tandaa - An Honest Analysis My last thoughts on this before it becomes more like a blogging site. Robert, you are still unable to define local content and therefore unable to match any criticism or critic. Mixing small words with bigger words for the sake of it is the usual illusion. I think the severe arrogance and phobia of local everything ( of course with the usual spices such as politics, leaders and events, esle the traffic to sites would not exist ) is over-rated and the best effort so far according to you for local content is a website that I'd never visit or waste any time on. So simply moving forward, and as Josiah and the others mentioned : Define local content and we will start to get somewhere. Get to the point.
It is worth noting that the Kenya ICT Board is sponsoring events that we very much need in Kenya. Think Mr. Kukubo clearly articulated that anything that we add value to in Kenya or anything that adds value to Kenya has a Kenyan element to it. A document typed using Google Apps, Open Office or Microsoft Word could be Kenyan because of the person doing it, the content in it or location from which it is done (typed). A good question to ask is whether gmail, yahoo mail or hotmail addresses owned by Kenyans are Kenyan or not. What do we say when Google Kenya builds a data center in Kenya? Those who customize or extend (add functionality) to open source or Microsoft software in Kenya make it Kenyan in one way or the other. Cisco Networks in Kenya carrying Kenyan data (content) are Kenyan in their own way. Does Kenyan law not recognize Multi-National Corporations (MNC's) registered in Kenya as somehow Kenyan? Some of these MNC's are even locally managed by hard core Kenyans. .......................................... Some Tandaa 2008 bits I remember NMG - Starting some social network and tried to justify their advert charges. Cellulant - Mobile networks growing faster than the internet - relevant mobile content is a hot commodity even without the internet. Kencall - Building a '911' emergency response network in conjunction with government, Cisco and others. USD 50 Million being invested. Rich.co.ke - ad based - targeting 1.5 million youth who will be able to more affordable connect to the internet over the next year or so. Africanpoint.com - Has generated USD 2 Million in revenues up to date (if not in the last year). Google.co.ke - Presented awards to innovative students they have been working with. (Mine: Like Nokia they must be commended for bringing a software engineer or two to Kenya to work with our youth. Microsoft needs to pay more attention to our youth even if corporates pay their bills). Skunkworks (they are mainly open source geeks and proponents) - Alex Gakuru explained the principles behind skunkworks and its origins. Storymojaafrica.com - Geeks need to learn to communicate with normal human beings. Should know intelligence exists outside their world. Capital FM / Mobile - They have an online phone directory. Africans with entertaining British accents and a high opinion of Macdonald's. Homeboyz.co.ke - Very Funky! Seem to have quite a profitable act making high school and college kids party! Kenyanpoet.Blogspot.Com - For the Artistic types or wannabes. --------------------------- Missed talks: Dr. Juma Oketch, PS, Dr. Bitange Ndemo, Cisco IBSG (Prof. Spencer). Maybe they could e-mail links or ppts to us.
participants (7)
-
aki -
Barrack Otieno -
Eric Aligula -
Josiah Mugambi -
Robert Alai -
S.Murigi Muraya -
Wainaina Mungai