On 11/18/08, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi people,

I've been following this conversation with interest (unnecessarily heated I must say).

I have

A couple of questions:

What would be the definition of local content?

- any content hosted locally
- local content hosted anywhere

- local content hosted locally
- <something>

This local content issue has been discussed over and over again. It would probably help if there's a general understanding of what local content is. As it is there's some confusion whether a swahili site hosted somewhere in Canada would qualify as local content. Maybe if this is clear, we could move towards the how to spur generation of local content.

Is it ethical to add someone to an email list without their consent?
- Yes
- No

And a couple of comments:

If some people would feel that TANDAA was not what it should be, why not just organise what they'd consider an ideal showcase of local content? It's a free world. Personal attacks don't take us anywhere.

I was not able to attend TANDAA due to other commitments. I've however learnt about kasarani.com, askadoc.co.ke from the various emails and blog posts. Interesting stuff. I wouldn't be able to give any assessment on the success or otherwise of the event, so I won't.

An aside: would ushahidi.com be considered local content... considering that it's already being used as a tool within the conflict afflicted DRC. (check out www.ushahidi.com for more info) Looks like its more than just local.

Regards
Josiah

On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote:

Wainaina

Thanks for this one

I now agree with you and hiyo ni maendeleo

The how is very key here.

As for thee mailing list (mine), we are happy. If you are not and I have not addressed your problem, send me a mail showing the complaints you sent to me and was not addressed. I make sure that I address all complaints and dont discriminate and if you complain, infact I dont just remove you, I ban you so that my other buddies wont ever add you

Regards
Robert

On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:
Hi all,

The issue building up here is on HOW to generate local content and the
ways not to do it.

We have seen cases of ''how not to do it'' as per the mailinglists and
websites facing complaints from listers here.

I believe members can now find way on 'how to' generate and collate
local content in solutions such as Ushahidi.com and BungeSMS.com that
seek to exploit the pervasive nature of mobile telephony to increase
citizen generated content on the web.

Google Kenya has done a great job with Google maps that now has easily
searchable maps of Nairobi even via mobile devices such as smartphones
with GPS feature coupled with data through the GSM networks. A
security & privacy question however arises here even as the content
question has been addressed.

On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wainaina
>
> Know that the fact that you dont agree with someone doesnt mean that you
> must raid the media house.
>
> Thats what you are trying to say here. We are discussing IT matters and what
> you bring are your personal problems.
>
> If you have spammed my address and lists, why make noise? Blacklists them. I
> will handle that in another way and know that I am registered in this forum
> all through and this forum doesnt belong to Wainaina and the ealier you
> realise that the better for you. Lets discuss matters which help this nation
> and not go personal because let me assure you that for every on of my
> actions before and in th future, I have a perfect answer for them.
>
> If you have a problem with BidiiAfrika send an email to
> bidiiafrika-owner@googlegroups.com.
>
> And again on Media, I like NMG since they have toned rhetoric and very high
> voltage news unlike KTN and standard group which still report like Kenya is
> going to war. I disagree with them but surely I wont like anybody raiding
> them
>
> Regards
> Alai
>
> On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:
>>
>> This is exactly the feedback I expected. I'm not at all disappointed
>> as it has happened before.
>>
>> KICTANet needs to do something about importing such conduct from other
>> lists.
>>
>>
>> Wainaina
>>
>>
>> On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > As indicated by Alex, spam & forced mailinglist subscriptions is a
>> > critical "local content" issue now that Alai has pointed fingers.
>> >
>> > I have been forced onto lists that do not allow for unsubscribing thus
>> > I have marked Alai's address and his mailinglists as spam addresses.
>> >
>> > Robert, please sort that out first so that the "traffic" and
>> > "subscription" numbers on your lists is a true reflection of
>> > subscription by choice rather than forced numbers.
>> >
>> > I bet someone else has had the same experience with Kazi africa, bidii
>> > africa and other lists.
>> >
>> > Wainaina. See the reply I gave to Gakuru. Blame your teacher and you
>> > have
>> no
>> > use being in KICTANET if you cant even know how to operate simple email
>> > addresses in,lists
>> >
>> >
>> > Alai
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> As indicated by Alex, spam & forced mailinglist subscriptions is a
>> >> critical "local content" issue now that Alai has pointed fingers.
>> >>
>> >> I have been forced onto lists that do not allow for unsubscribing thus
>> >> I have marked Alai's address and his mailinglists as spam addresses.
>> >>
>> >> Robert, please sort that out first so that the "traffic" and
>> >> "subscription" numbers on your lists is a true reflection of
>> >> subscription by choice rather than forced numbers.
>> >>
>> >> I bet someone else has had the same experience with Kazi africa, bidii
>> >> africa and other lists.
>> >>
>> >> Wainaina
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 11/18/08, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Alai,
>> >> >
>> >> > I am somewhat now tempted to start a local content blog focusing on
>> >> > 'opinion influencers' and opinion shapers themselves - informed by
>> >> > the
>> >> > fact that, content is king and awaited 'future online content
>> >> > warfare'
>> >> > arrived a long time ago.
>> >> >
>> >> > So despite excluding my skunkworks presentation from your firing
>> >> > squad, I shall nonetheless shoot back at you;)
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:37 AM, Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> Mirembe
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I have a very open and honest analysis of our Tandaa conference.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The facts which we must change is that Paul Kukubo, my big brother
>> >> >> still
>> >> >> sees it best to defend foreign companies and say that "eve if we
>> >> >> want
>> >> >> local
>> >> >> content we must stilldo it with foreigners'.
>> >> >
>> >> > Paul stated, "Let's realise that Internet is one. How can have 'our
>> >> > Internet' so shielded away for 'outsiders Internet' to the extent
>> >> > that
>> >> > 'our content' is only accessible to us yet somehow  we expected to
>> >> > make money from 'outsiders' through 'our Internet'? Maybe we should
>> >> > not use downloaded [even-free] 'foreign' software, 'foreign'
>> >> > computers, 'foreign' concepts, nothing 'foreign' except only localyy
>> >> > made?" That was heavy!
>> >> >
>> >> >>Let me tell you a thing. We
>> >> >> must focus on local mpaka it becomes music. When I saw the slides of
>> >> >> Joe
>> >> >> Mucheru, which apparently I have seen in every conference I have
>> >> attended
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> which he is the speaker. The websites listed there, non were Kenyan.
>> >> >> The
>> >> >> fact that Mucheru works for a Carlifornian company and he is Kenyan
>> >> should
>> >> >> make Mucheru sell Kenya more.
>> >> >
>> >> > Its what all (or at least the majority of) the people in that room
>> >> > were there *actually doing* Give Mucheru a break. (You stand accused
>> >> > of promoting 'foreign content' by using Google mailing lists;)
>> >> >
>> >> >> If you wanted a subscription website, you
>> >> >> should have started with kenyalaw.org. If you wanted affiliates,
>> >> >> mamamikes.com has affiliates. Lets focus on local. Lets give it lots
>> of
>> >> >> thought. We must give local examples and then mention the foreign
>> ones
>> >> >> just
>> >> >> as an after-thought.
>> >> >
>> >> > I wish you had asked ICT Board to make a presentation to the audience
>> >> > to articulate you point?
>> >> >
>> >> >> We want the companies to give the local content much thought and
>> >> >> they
>> >> can
>> >> >> only do that when they think locally. When you make people believe
>> that
>> >> >> facebook is great, we wont head anywhere. See why Tanzanians are
>> >> engaging
>> >> >> more in bongo5.com and jamiiforums than facebook and others. They
>> are
>> >> >> actively loading pics and content and these two websites are really
>> >> coming
>> >> >> up well and considreing the age of the websites, we will see nice
>> >> >> things
>> >> >> from them. We should not glorify anything western. We must start
>> >> >> appreciating our own facebook like Ngari has developed a good site,
>> >> >> www.kasarani.com
>> >> >
>> >> > Kasarani is your website, right? The conference was not a sales pitch
>> >> > for *anyone* but a conversation exploring various ways to promote
>> >> > local content.
>> >> >
>> >> >> When I started my start forum and blogging thing, jamiiforums.com,
>> we
>> >> had
>> >> >> lots of problems. But we also had people telling us that the forum
>> >> >> which
>> >> >> is
>> >> >> being run by my great friend Maxence, was going nowhere because
>> >> Tanzanians
>> >> >> don't speak a lot of English. See the site now. I don't think that
>> >> >> there
>> >> >> is
>> >> >> any forum in this region with that kind of killer traffic.
>> >> >
>> >> > Me, me, me again... Try a bit of our, our, our, country's local
>> content.
>> >> >
>> >> >> There is no forum
>> >> >> in this region which makes the government shakes like hell when
>> issues
>> >> are
>> >> >> being analyzed there. And they are doing it most of the time in
>> >> >> Swahili.
>> >> >> We
>> >> >> must focus on being local if we want local content.
>> >> >
>> >> > 'Government' is a strange 3-legged animal Executive, Legislature, and
>> >> > Judiciacy.
>> >> > If one makes this animal 'shake like hell,' that person ought to be
>> >> > in
>> >> > very serious trouble...
>> >> >
>> >> >> NMG bought a script from Germans and installed it on their site
>> without
>> >> a
>> >> >> forum nor blogs for the senior writers. Why? No creativity. NTV,
>> EasyFm
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> QFM are not online. A very good percentage of articles in Mailbox
>> >> >> are
>> >> >> plagiarized from blogs and forums without acknowledgement and
>> articles
>> >> in
>> >> >> entertainment and lifestyle mazagines are plagiarized from magazines
>> >> like
>> >> >> cosmopolitan and Elle sometimes word for word.
>> >> >
>> >> > Why so excessive negative energy? There must be something NMG have
>> done
>> >> > right?
>> >> >
>> >> >> The Tandaa website was .com and not .co.ke. Even if you are not
>> hosting
>> >> >> locally, you could still have had a local domain registration.
>> >> >
>> >> > Had you tried http://www.tandaa.co.ke/ before the conference? BTW, I
>> >> > host websites abroad many times and I have no problems with it. It
>> >> > can
>> >> > be a business decision why host locally with painfully expensive ISP?
>> >> > Host 'politically incorrect' website at a pro-conformist provider
>> >> > 'anti-telcos' content with one of them.... etc.. It's a matrix of
>> >> > decision making procees..
>> >> >
>> >> >> The funniest thing I got from the conference, why would 6 or 7
>> speakers
>> >> >> speak for 15 minutes each and then  the forum audience is given 10
>> >> minutes
>> >> >> to ask questions and suggestions?
>> >> >
>> >> > The sun waits for no King and time has never been enough.
>> >> >
>> >> >>Do you know that the slides from Capital,
>> >> >> NMG, Google, Homeboyz, Kictanet, ICT board, Strathmore, Rich, Cisco
>> and
>> >> >> others are shown to us almost in every conference we attend. They
>> have
>> >> >> become so predictable that the best place to get more stories and
>> even
>> >> >> slides which you have never seen is from the public.
>> >> >
>> >> > Would you also be suggesting that new school textbooks be published
>> >> > every
>> >> > year?
>> >> >
>> >> >>Givingg 15 minutes to
>> >> >> each speaker which is 105 minutes for the seven speakers then the
>> >> audience
>> >> >> asks and get replies in 10 minutes is really not correct and shows
>> and
>> >> >> attitude of escapism where te audience are feared that they might
>> >> embarass
>> >> >> the speakers with questions.
>> >> >
>> >> > You just created conveniently suitable circumstances to arrive at
>> >> > your
>> >> > conclusion?
>> >> >
>> >> >> The other facts of the conference was ok. The moderator, Al Kags,
>> >> >> was
>> >> >> ok
>> >> >> but
>> >> >> I think that we can do alot of improvements by having power cable
>> well
>> >> >> spread for bloggers and also the Wi-Fi to be abit superior. I had to
>> >> rely
>> >> >> on
>> >> >> my Zain unlimited since the ICT board Wi-fi kept shutting down.
>> >> >
>> >> > Would it not have been fair to mention some of those 'ok' facts. Its
>> >> > called "fair commentating"
>> >> >
>> >> >> We also think that we can have an active network and the best place
>> to
>> >> >> start
>> >> >> is now here in KICTANET. I see us turning KICTANET into an open
>> >> vbulletin
>> >> >> run forum with CMS managed frontpage like www.haitiwebs.com and
>> >> >> www.mustangevolution.com. Vbulletin is so superior and it wont take
>> us
>> >> >> even
>> >> >> a day to have this thing up and running.
>> >> >
>> >> > Dunno..
>> >> >
>> >> >> Senior members, what do you think?
>> >> >
>> >> > I just have. But allow me to add that *nix users have this thing
>> >> > about
>> >> > multi-thread thought processes which lead me to advice users to
>> >> > format
>> >> > their Windows and install *nix. It makes engagement multi-faceted
>> >> > critique and criticize when necessesary but also appreciate and
>> >> > praise
>> >> > excellent achievement.
>> >> >
>> >> > Tandaa.08 was an excellent event and I wish the ICT board could
>> >> > explain to us who were the brains behind it. They can count on me for
>> >> > their next such conference.
>> >> >
>> >> > Rider:
>> >> >
>> >> > There is a clip one run NTV of an Edloret pharmacist who literary and
>> >> > severally slapped himself on the face upon being visited by
>> >> > Pharmacies
>> >> > and Poisons Board drug inspectors.
>> >> > Let's not always take the shrtest route to slap every great
>> >> > initiative, erroneously.
>> >> >
>> >> > Also we avoid "local content spam", for example, forced mailing lists
>> >> > subscriptions;)
>> >> >
>> >> > G'day,
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > kictanet mailing list
>> >> > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> >> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> > This message was sent to: wainaina@madeinkenya.org
>> >>
>> >> > Unsubscribe or change your options at
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina%40madeinkenya.org
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> --
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>> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
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>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Sent from my mobile device
>>
>> Made in Kenya Network
>> Apt. B-8, Elite Park
>> Ole Odume Road
>> P. O. Box 72031 - 00200
>> Nairobi. Kenya
>> Tel:   +254-20-3590451
>> Cel:  +254-722-811171
>> Cel:  +254-735-370840
>> www.madeinkenya.org
>>
>> http://www.bungesms.com
>>
>

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