Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced. On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300 From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com> To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots Message-ID: <CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense of people. Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them with a robot for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need. I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have all the cash and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is the humanity.
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten. A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common services provided by the government. What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government that they need to pay for? Regards, Alex Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Mark Kipyegon Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced. On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300 From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com> To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots Message-ID: <CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense of people. Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them with a robot for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need. I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have all the cash and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is the humanity.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/awatila%40yahoo.co.uk The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
This is probably the best reply so far! Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh. On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
*From: *Mark Kipyegon via kictanet <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM *To: *awatila@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:awatila@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc: *Mark Kipyegon <mailto:mkipyegon@outlook.com> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people, they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though. On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
This is probably the best reply so far!
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
*From: *Mark Kipyegon via kictanet <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM *To: *awatila@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:awatila@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc: *Mark Kipyegon <mailto:mkipyegon@outlook.com> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
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Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/awatila%40yahoo.co.uk
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
Your point is very good Mark Elkins. I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people, they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
This is probably the best reply so far!
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Mark Kipyegon Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/awatila%40yahoo.co.uk
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up to do more important work higher the value chain. In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food chain. Ali Hussein Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Your point is very good Mark Elkins.
I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people, they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
This is probably the best reply so far!
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Mark Kipyegon Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
That is true Ali. Human will have to develop skills needed in this evolving society. But we should remember in every society, there still will be the F student. There will be the elderly, and most importantly, the peasants. Those with skills will prosper. But we need social nets for the disadvantaged, and those who life has served them only lemons. This category will always be there in every society On Feb 28, 2017 3:49 PM, "Admin CampusCiti" <info@campusciti.com> wrote:
We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up to do more important work higher the value chain.
In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food chain.
*Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Your point is very good Mark Elkins.
I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people,
they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or
re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can
be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That
would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
This is probably the best reply so far!
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of
freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them
with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common
services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government
that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM
To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Mark Kipyegon
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar
arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke"
<kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them
with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ awatila%40yahoo.co.uk
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
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Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ kivuva%40transworldafrica.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/ mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
No doubt. That we need to ensure that we hold our government to account on how they spend our taxes and wherever we can we need to chip in and help the disadvantaged. We should be our brothers' and sisters' keepers. Ali Hussein Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 4:54 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
That is true Ali. Human will have to develop skills needed in this evolving society. But we should remember in every society, there still will be the F student. There will be the elderly, and most importantly, the peasants. Those with skills will prosper. But we need social nets for the disadvantaged, and those who life has served them only lemons. This category will always be there in every society
On Feb 28, 2017 3:49 PM, "Admin CampusCiti" <info@campusciti.com> wrote: We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up to do more important work higher the value chain.
In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food chain.
Ali Hussein Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Your point is very good Mark Elkins.
I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people, they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
This is probably the best reply so far!
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Mark Kipyegon Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/awatila%40yahoo.co.uk
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mje%40posix.co.za
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mje%40posix.co.za
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafr...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Robots will never replace human beings, there will always be work for human beings unless they are lazy. That is why i still don't agree with the idea of taxing gadgets or equipment. Regards On 2/28/17, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
No doubt. That we need to ensure that we hold our government to account on how they spend our taxes and wherever we can we need to chip in and help the disadvantaged. We should be our brothers' and sisters' keepers.
Ali Hussein Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 4:54 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
That is true Ali. Human will have to develop skills needed in this evolving society. But we should remember in every society, there still will be the F student. There will be the elderly, and most importantly, the peasants. Those with skills will prosper. But we need social nets for the disadvantaged, and those who life has served them only lemons. This category will always be there in every society
On Feb 28, 2017 3:49 PM, "Admin CampusCiti" <info@campusciti.com> wrote: We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up to do more important work higher the value chain.
In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food chain.
Ali Hussein Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Your point is very good Mark Elkins.
I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people, they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
This is probably the best reply so far!
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Mark Kipyegon Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/awatila%40yahoo.co.uk
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mje%40posix.co.za
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mje%40posix.co.za
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254733206359 Skype: barrack.otieno PGP ID: 0x2611D86A
I have a couple of concerns about this specific issue: 1. Firstly, robots do not do everything a person does. That said that is why robots are "assisted" by human elements. The robots are only an extension of the human function to make it "more efficient". In most cases a robot is specialized in one specific line item duty. If they are placing a wheel on a car in the plant they don't place a wheel on a car and go on to record it in a book somewhere. They do just that. They did not go to school to learn manufacturing processes. 2. Secondly, what would be termed as a robot (without abusing the term). Is my WiFi modem a robot? Is my blender a robot? Is my car also a robot?? 3. Thirdly, are robots employed or purchased? (I thought VAT on buying and maintaining robots was already a thing) Not entirely for this idea for sure. On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
No doubt. That we need to ensure that we hold our government to account on how they spend our taxes and wherever we can we need to chip in and help the disadvantaged. We should be our brothers' and sisters' keepers.
*Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113> / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 4:54 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
That is true Ali. Human will have to develop skills needed in this evolving society. But we should remember in every society, there still will be the F student. There will be the elderly, and most importantly, the peasants. Those with skills will prosper. But we need social nets for the disadvantaged, and those who life has served them only lemons. This category will always be there in every society
On Feb 28, 2017 3:49 PM, "Admin CampusCiti" <info@campusciti.com> wrote:
We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up to do more important work higher the value chain.
In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food chain.
*Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113> / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Your point is very good Mark Elkins.
I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people,
they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or
re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can
be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That
would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
This is probably the best reply so far!
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of
freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them
with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common
services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government
that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM
To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Mark Kipyegon
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar
arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke"
<kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them
with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
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https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mje%40posix.co.za
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 <+27%2012%20807%200590> Cell: +27.826010496 <+27%2082%20601%200496>
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mje%40posix.co.za
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 <+27%2012%20807%200590> Cell: +27.826010496 <+27%2082%20601%200496>
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
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Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva %40transworldafrica.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Principal Product Management Specialist - Al Jazeera Media Network Skype: ultimateprogramer
In a related topic, here are the 5 jobs robots will take first: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-jobs-robots-take-first-shelly-palmer?trk=eml-email_feed_ecosystem_digest_01-hero-0-null&midToken=AQFVkI2BeqJI7g&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=1P1hcNFzkBwnE1 Regards, Mildred Achoch. Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I have a couple of concerns about this specific issue:
1. Firstly, robots do not do everything a person does. That said that is why robots are "assisted" by human elements. The robots are only an extension of the human function to make it "more efficient". In most cases a robot is specialized in one specific line item duty. If they are placing a wheel on a car in the plant they don't place a wheel on a car and go on to record it in a book somewhere. They do just that. They did not go to school to learn manufacturing processes. 2. Secondly, what would be termed as a robot (without abusing the term). Is my WiFi modem a robot? Is my blender a robot? Is my car also a robot?? 3. Thirdly, are robots employed or purchased? (I thought VAT on buying and maintaining robots was already a thing)
Not entirely for this idea for sure.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
No doubt. That we need to ensure that we hold our government to account on how they spend our taxes and wherever we can we need to chip in and help the disadvantaged. We should be our brothers' and sisters' keepers.
*Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113> / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 4:54 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
That is true Ali. Human will have to develop skills needed in this evolving society. But we should remember in every society, there still will be the F student. There will be the elderly, and most importantly, the peasants. Those with skills will prosper. But we need social nets for the disadvantaged, and those who life has served them only lemons. This category will always be there in every society
On Feb 28, 2017 3:49 PM, "Admin CampusCiti" <info@campusciti.com> wrote:
We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up to do more important work higher the value chain.
In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food chain.
*Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113> / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Your point is very good Mark Elkins.
I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people,
they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or
re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can
be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That
would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
This is probably the best reply so far!
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of
freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them
with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common
services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government
that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM
To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Mark Kipyegon
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar
arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke"
<kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them
with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/awatil a%40yahoo.co.uk
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 <+27%2012%20807%200590> Cell: +27.826010496 <+27%2082%20601%200496>
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
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Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mje%40posix.co.za
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 <+27%2012%20807%200590> Cell: +27.826010496 <+27%2082%20601%200496>
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Principal Product Management Specialist - Al Jazeera Media Network Skype: ultimateprogramer
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Can a robot really take a doctors job? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Mildred Achoch via kictanet Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 6:53 AM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Mildred Achoch Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots In a related topic, here are the 5 jobs robots will take first: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-jobs-robots-take-first-shelly-palmer?trk=eml-email_feed_ecosystem_digest_01-hero-0-null&midToken=AQFVkI2BeqJI7g&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=1P1hcNFzkBwnE1 Regards, Mildred Achoch. Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: I have a couple of concerns about this specific issue: 1. Firstly, robots do not do everything a person does. That said that is why robots are "assisted" by human elements. The robots are only an extension of the human function to make it "more efficient". In most cases a robot is specialized in one specific line item duty. If they are placing a wheel on a car in the plant they don't place a wheel on a car and go on to record it in a book somewhere. They do just that. They did not go to school to learn manufacturing processes. 2. Secondly, what would be termed as a robot (without abusing the term). Is my WiFi modem a robot? Is my blender a robot? Is my car also a robot?? 3. Thirdly, are robots employed or purchased? (I thought VAT on buying and maintaining robots was already a thing) Not entirely for this idea for sure. On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: No doubt. That we need to ensure that we hold our government to account on how they spend our taxes and wherever we can we need to chip in and help the disadvantaged. We should be our brothers' and sisters' keepers. Ali Hussein Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad On 28 Feb 2017, at 4:54 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: That is true Ali. Human will have to develop skills needed in this evolving society. But we should remember in every society, there still will be the F student. There will be the elderly, and most importantly, the peasants. Those with skills will prosper. But we need social nets for the disadvantaged, and those who life has served them only lemons. This category will always be there in every society On Feb 28, 2017 3:49 PM, "Admin CampusCiti" <info@campusciti.com> wrote: We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up to do more important work higher the value chain. In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food chain. Ali Hussein Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Your point is very good Mark Elkins. I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people, they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though. On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote: This is probably the best reply so far! Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh. On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote: I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten. A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common services provided by the government. What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government that they need to pay for? Regards, Alex Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Mark Kipyegon Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced. On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Message: 3 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300 From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com> To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots Message-ID: <CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Barrack, Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense of people. Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them with a robot for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need. I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have all the cash and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is the humanity. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/awatila%40yahoo.co.uk The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mje%40posix.co.za The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mje%40posix.co.za The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafr... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gm... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Ahmed Maawy Principal Product Management Specialist - Al Jazeera Media Network Skype: ultimateprogramer _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Alex Surgeons are finding it a lot easier to do surgery today using robots... Ali Hussein Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad
On 1 Mar 2017, at 8:21 AM, awatila--- via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Can a robot really take a doctors job?
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mildred Achoch via kictanet Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 6:53 AM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Mildred Achoch Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
In a related topic, here are the 5 jobs robots will take first: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-jobs-robots-take-first-shelly-palmer?trk=eml-email_feed_ecosystem_digest_01-hero-0-null&midToken=AQFVkI2BeqJI7g&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=1P1hcNFzkBwnE1
Regards, Mildred Achoch.
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: I have a couple of concerns about this specific issue: Firstly, robots do not do everything a person does. That said that is why robots are "assisted" by human elements. The robots are only an extension of the human function to make it "more efficient". In most cases a robot is specialized in one specific line item duty. If they are placing a wheel on a car in the plant they don't place a wheel on a car and go on to record it in a book somewhere. They do just that. They did not go to school to learn manufacturing processes. Secondly, what would be termed as a robot (without abusing the term). Is my WiFi modem a robot? Is my blender a robot? Is my car also a robot?? Thirdly, are robots employed or purchased? (I thought VAT on buying and maintaining robots was already a thing) Not entirely for this idea for sure.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: No doubt. That we need to ensure that we hold our government to account on how they spend our taxes and wherever we can we need to chip in and help the disadvantaged. We should be our brothers' and sisters' keepers.
Ali Hussein Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 4:54 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
That is true Ali. Human will have to develop skills needed in this evolving society. But we should remember in every society, there still will be the F student. There will be the elderly, and most importantly, the peasants. Those with skills will prosper. But we need social nets for the disadvantaged, and those who life has served them only lemons. This category will always be there in every society
On Feb 28, 2017 3:49 PM, "Admin CampusCiti" <info@campusciti.com> wrote: We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up to do more important work higher the value chain.
In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food chain.
Ali Hussein Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Your point is very good Mark Elkins.
I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people, they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
This is probably the best reply so far!
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Mark Kipyegon Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mje%40posix.co.za
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mje%40posix.co.za
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafr...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gm...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Ahmed Maawy Principal Product Management Specialist - Al Jazeera Media Network Skype: ultimateprogramer
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
The other day, my buddy David Pearson and I visited his mentor Bob Doyle who is an information philosopher <http://www.informationphilosopher.com/about/> (has become my friend as well) and his son Jeremy in their VR studio and after playing with the toys we sat to discuss VR, AI, AR and Robots and in that convo Bob postulated that Robots “could” develop their own free will - that scared the hell out of me and for the rest of that afternoon I would dwell on that thought deep into my sleep that night. Robots are currently slaves to humans but we know that robots have better eyesight, can work longer and better hours etc than humans so the import of Bob's postulation is that when (not if) Robots develop "free will” the master servant relationship would switch where we humans would become slaves to robots - I woke up the following day with this thought then it became clear to me why Elon Musk is worried that his friend Larry Page could destroy human kind and in the book “Elon Musk” by Ashlee Vanee, page 3 (Elon’s World) I quote “…He opened up about the major fear keeping him up at night: namely that Google cofounder and CEO Larry Page might well have been building a fleet of AI-enhanced robots capable of destroying mankind. “I’m really worried about this, “ Musk said….” - I have also being worried since. Eric here Eric M.K Osiakwan "Accraboy" 4 Skype @eosiakwan 4 Twitter www.ericosiakwan.com +233244386792 4 WhatsApp
On Mar 1, 2017, at 1:39 AM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Alex
Surgeons are finding it a lot easier to do surgery today using robots...
Ali Hussein Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com <http://www.alyhussein.com/>
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 1 Mar 2017, at 8:21 AM, awatila--- via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Can a robot really take a doctors job?
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
From: Mildred Achoch via kictanet <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 6:53 AM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:awatila@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: Mildred Achoch <mailto:mildandred@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
In a related topic, here are the 5 jobs robots will take first: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-jobs-robots-take-first-shelly-palmer?trk=eml-email_feed_ecosystem_digest_01-hero-0-null&midToken=AQFVkI2BeqJI7g&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=1P1hcNFzkBwnE1 <https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-jobs-robots-take-first-shelly-palmer?trk=eml-email_feed_ecosystem_digest_01-hero-0-null&midToken=AQFVkI2BeqJI7g&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=1P1hcNFzkBwnE1> Regards, Mildred Achoch.
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: I have a couple of concerns about this specific issue: Firstly, robots do not do everything a person does. That said that is why robots are "assisted" by human elements. The robots are only an extension of the human function to make it "more efficient". In most cases a robot is specialized in one specific line item duty. If they are placing a wheel on a car in the plant they don't place a wheel on a car and go on to record it in a book somewhere. They do just that. They did not go to school to learn manufacturing processes. Secondly, what would be termed as a robot (without abusing the term). Is my WiFi modem a robot? Is my blender a robot? Is my car also a robot?? Thirdly, are robots employed or purchased? (I thought VAT on buying and maintaining robots was already a thing) Not entirely for this idea for sure.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: No doubt. That we need to ensure that we hold our government to account on how they spend our taxes and wherever we can we need to chip in and help the disadvantaged. We should be our brothers' and sisters' keepers.
Ali Hussein Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 <tel:+254%20713%20601113> / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com <http://www.alyhussein.com/>
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 4:54 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com <mailto:Kivuva@transworldafrica.com>> wrote:
That is true Ali. Human will have to develop skills needed in this evolving society. But we should remember in every society, there still will be the F student. There will be the elderly, and most importantly, the peasants. Those with skills will prosper. But we need social nets for the disadvantaged, and those who life has served them only lemons. This category will always be there in every society
On Feb 28, 2017 3:49 PM, "Admin CampusCiti" <info@campusciti.com <mailto:info@campusciti.com>> wrote: We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up to do more important work higher the value chain.
In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food chain.
Ali Hussein Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 <tel:+254%20713%20601113> / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com <http://www.alyhussein.com/>
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Your point is very good Mark Elkins.
I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh <http://twitter.com/lordmwesh>
On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people, they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
This is probably the best reply so far!
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:awatila@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: Mark Kipyegon Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke>" <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com <mailto:muriukin@gmail.com>>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com <mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com>>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com <mailto:CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
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Blessed Wednesday! Thank you for the insights and discussions! What I am hearing Barrack from Erick is that "Who is the master of who? Technology without humanity is dead....and I guess it is the humanity to be dead..." Mildred - what a piece ..."Oxford University researchers have estimated that 47 percent of U.S. jobs could be automated within the next two decades..." Kivuva - From you drift, I wonder whether Bill Gates is alluding to the fact that there could be too much of this technology thing. Locally, we have not even gotten into the AI-driven economy yet and its impact and we already have unemployment, underemployment not to mention the youth employment crisis. What is of greater concern is that most employees are not even aware of this future so as to take up personal initiative for their careers. Yes, we have seen paralysis of operations by employees about to be made redundant such as in farms that want to mechanise and replace the people. Which employers are these locally who are reskilling and reassigning their people as they adopt the technologies. They would be interesting cases since what is publicised is the redundancies of eg digital banks...soon digital hospitals, digital schools etc. Human labour has been a national revenue point vide taxes. I believe the developments point towards how a country like Kenya will fund to run itself and provide public services through innovative perhaps unthought of revenue avenues. On the other hand, national labour agencies should be in a position to proactively share information to direct talent towards the future careers. Have a blessed day. Regards/Wangari--- Pray God Bless. 2013Wangari circa - "Being of the Light, We are Restored Through Faith in Mind, Body and Spirit; We Manifest The Kingdom of God on Earth". On Wednesday, 1 March 2017, 10:27, Eric M K Osiakwan via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: The other day, my buddy David Pearson and I visited his mentor Bob Doyle who is an information philosopher (has become my friend as well) and his son Jeremy in their VR studio and after playing with the toys we sat to discuss VR, AI, AR and Robots and in that convo Bob postulated that Robots “could” develop their own free will - that scared the hell out of me and for the rest of that afternoon I would dwell on that thought deep into my sleep that night. Robots are currently slaves to humans but we know that robots have better eyesight, can work longer and better hours etc than humans so the import of Bob's postulation is that when (not if) Robots develop "free will” the master servant relationship would switch where we humans would become slaves to robots - I woke up the following day with this thought then it became clear to me why Elon Musk is worried that his friend Larry Page could destroy human kind and in the book “Elon Musk” by Ashlee Vanee, page 3 (Elon’s World) I quote “…He opened up about the major fear keeping him up at night: namely that Google cofounder and CEO Larry Page might well have been building a fleet of AI-enhanced robots capable of destroying mankind. “I’m really worried about this, “ Musk said….” - I have also being worried since. Eric here Eric M.K Osiakwan "Accraboy" 4 Skype @eosiakwan 4 Twitter www.ericosiakwan.com+233244386792 4 WhatsApp On Mar 1, 2017, at 1:39 AM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Alex Surgeons are finding it a lot easier to do surgery today using robots... Ali HusseinHussein & Associates+254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassimSkype: abu-jomoLinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassimBlog: www.alyhussein.com "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad On 1 Mar 2017, at 8:21 AM, awatila--- via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Can a robot really take a doctors job? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Mildred Achoch via kictanet Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 6:53 AM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Mildred Achoch Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots In a related topic, here are the 5 jobs robots will take first: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-jobs-robots-take-first-shelly-palmer?trk=eml-email_feed_ecosystem_digest_01-hero-0-null&midToken=AQFVkI2BeqJI7g&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=1P1hcNFzkBwnE1Regards,Mildred Achoch. Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: I have a couple of concerns about this specific issue: - Firstly, robots do not do everything a person does. That said that is why robots are "assisted" by human elements. The robots are only an extension of the human function to make it "more efficient". In most cases a robot is specialized in one specific line item duty. If they are placing a wheel on a car in the plant they don't place a wheel on a car and go on to record it in a book somewhere. They do just that. They did not go to school to learn manufacturing processes. - Secondly, what would be termed as a robot (without abusing the term). Is my WiFi modem a robot? Is my blender a robot? Is my car also a robot?? - Thirdly, are robots employed or purchased? (I thought VAT on buying and maintaining robots was already a thing) Not entirely for this idea for sure. On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: No doubt. That we need to ensure that we hold our government to account on how they spend our taxes and wherever we can we need to chip in and help the disadvantaged. We should be our brothers' and sisters' keepers.Ali HusseinHussein & Associates+254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassimSkype: abu-jomoLinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassimBlog: www.alyhussein.com "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad On 28 Feb 2017, at 4:54 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: That is true Ali. Human will have to develop skills needed in this evolving society. But we should remember in every society, there still will be the F student. There will be the elderly, and most importantly, the peasants. Those with skills will prosper. But we need social nets for the disadvantaged, and those who life has served them only lemons. This category will always be there in every society On Feb 28, 2017 3:49 PM, "Admin CampusCiti" <info@campusciti.com> wrote: We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up to do more important work higher the value chain. In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food chain. Ali HusseinHussein & Associates+254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassimSkype: abu-jomoLinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassimBlog: www.alyhussein.com "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Your point is very good Mark Elkins. I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people, they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though. On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote: This is probably the best reply so far! Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh. On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote: I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten. A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common services provided by the government. What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government that they need to pay for? Regards, Alex Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Mark Kipyegon Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced. On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Message: 3 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300 From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com> To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots Message-ID: <CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Barrack, Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense of people. Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them with a robot for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need. I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have all the cash and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is the humanity. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/awatila%40yahoo.co.uk The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mje%40posix.co.za The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mje%40posix.co.za The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafr... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gm... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Ahmed Maawy Principal Product Management Specialist - Al Jazeera Media Network Skype: ultimateprogramer _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ericosiakwan%40me.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wangarikabiru%40yahoo.... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hello Wangari, The point that you mention about automation taking over manual labor (causing unemployment) needs to be a bit more investigated. From what we can see - countries with high amounts of automation tend to have less unemployment levels than countries that have no as much automation in processes. The reason for this being that automation brings about more efficiency, allowing more to be done in less time. Which counters unemployment because the more an economy does the faster it grows and the more specialized labor is needed. So automation is good. But taxing a robot like a human being assumes we paid the robot a salary in the first place. Where the tax should be focused is instead on things like Duty, VAT and other taxes associated with buying and maintaining gadgets (which includes service contracts with companies meant to do that instead). The labor item managing the robot is the one already paying their PAYE. Next thing youd know is youd be told to pay PAYE on your laptop. On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 10:57 AM, WANGARI KABIRU via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Blessed Wednesday!
Thank you for the insights and discussions!
What I am hearing Barrack from Erick is that "Who is the master of who? Technology without humanity is dead....and I guess it is the humanity to be dead..."
Mildred - what a piece ..."Oxford University researchers have estimated that 47 percent of U.S. jobs could be automated within the next two decades..."
Kivuva - From you drift, I wonder whether Bill Gates is alluding to the fact that there could be too much of this technology thing.
Locally, we have not even gotten into the AI-driven economy yet and its impact and we already have unemployment, underemployment not to mention the youth employment crisis.
What is of greater concern is that most employees are not even aware of this future so as to take up personal initiative for their careers. Yes, we have seen paralysis of operations by employees about to be made redundant such as in farms that want to mechanise and replace the people.
Which employers are these locally who are reskilling and reassigning their people as they adopt the technologies. They would be interesting cases since what is publicised is the redundancies of eg digital banks...soon digital hospitals, digital schools etc.
Human labour has been a national revenue point vide taxes. I believe the developments point towards how a country like Kenya will fund to run itself and provide public services through innovative perhaps unthought of revenue avenues.
On the other hand, national labour agencies should be in a position to proactively share information to direct talent towards the future careers.
Have a blessed day.
Regards/Wangari --- Pray God Bless. 2013Wangari circa - "Being of the Light, We are Restored Through Faith in Mind, Body and Spirit; We Manifest The Kingdom of God on Earth".
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017, 10:27, Eric M K Osiakwan via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
The other day, my buddy David Pearson and I visited his mentor Bob Doyle who is an information philosopher <http://www.informationphilosopher.com/about/> (has become my friend as well) and his son Jeremy in their VR studio and after playing with the toys we sat to discuss VR, AI, AR and Robots and in that convo Bob postulated that Robots “could” develop their own free will - that scared the hell out of me and for the rest of that afternoon I would dwell on that thought deep into my sleep that night.
Robots are currently slaves to humans but we know that robots have better eyesight, can work longer and better hours etc than humans so the import of Bob's postulation is that when (not if) Robots develop "free will” the master servant relationship would switch where we humans would become slaves to robots - I woke up the following day with this thought then it became clear to me why Elon Musk is worried that his friend Larry Page could destroy human kind and in the book “Elon Musk” by Ashlee Vanee, page 3 (Elon’s World) I quote “…He opened up about the major fear keeping him up at night: namely that Google cofounder and CEO Larry Page might well have been building a fleet of AI-enhanced robots capable of destroying mankind. “I’m really worried about this, “ Musk said….” - I have also being worried since.
Eric here
Eric M.K Osiakwan "Accraboy" 4 Skype @eosiakwan 4 Twitter www.ericosiakwan.com +233244386792 <+233%2024%20438%206792> 4 WhatsApp
On Mar 1, 2017, at 1:39 AM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Alex
Surgeons are finding it a lot easier to do surgery today using robots...
*Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113> / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 1 Mar 2017, at 8:21 AM, awatila--- via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Can a robot really take a doctors job?
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
*From: *Mildred Achoch via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent: *Wednesday, March 1, 2017 6:53 AM *To: *awatila@yahoo.co.uk *Cc: *Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
In a related topic, here are the 5 jobs robots will take first: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-jobs-robots-take- first-shelly-palmer?trk=eml-email_feed_ecosystem_digest_ 01-hero-0-null&midToken=AQFVkI2BeqJI7g&fromEmail= fromEmail&ut=1P1hcNFzkBwnE1 Regards, Mildred Achoch.
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I have a couple of concerns about this specific issue:
1. Firstly, robots do not do everything a person does. That said that is why robots are "assisted" by human elements. The robots are only an extension of the human function to make it "more efficient". In most cases a robot is specialized in one specific line item duty. If they are placing a wheel on a car in the plant they don't place a wheel on a car and go on to record it in a book somewhere. They do just that. They did not go to school to learn manufacturing processes. 2. Secondly, what would be termed as a robot (without abusing the term). Is my WiFi modem a robot? Is my blender a robot? Is my car also a robot?? 3. Thirdly, are robots employed or purchased? (I thought VAT on buying and maintaining robots was already a thing)
Not entirely for this idea for sure.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
No doubt. That we need to ensure that we hold our government to account on how they spend our taxes and wherever we can we need to chip in and help the disadvantaged. We should be our brothers' and sisters' keepers. *Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 4:54 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
That is true Ali. Human will have to develop skills needed in this evolving society. But we should remember in every society, there still will be the F student. There will be the elderly, and most importantly, the peasants. Those with skills will prosper. But we need social nets for the disadvantaged, and those who life has served them only lemons. This category will always be there in every society
On Feb 28, 2017 3:49 PM, "Admin CampusCiti" <info@campusciti.com> wrote:
We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up to do more important work higher the value chain.
In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food chain.
*Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Your point is very good Mark Elkins.
I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people,
they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or
re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can
be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That
would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
This is probably the best reply so far!
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of
freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them
with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common
services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government
that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM
To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Mark Kipyegon
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar
arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke"
<kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them
with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
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Unsubscribe or change your options at
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
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Well said Ahmed, Regards On 3/1/17, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hello Wangari,
The point that you mention about automation taking over manual labor (causing unemployment) needs to be a bit more investigated. From what we can see - countries with high amounts of automation tend to have less unemployment levels than countries that have no as much automation in processes. The reason for this being that automation brings about more efficiency, allowing more to be done in less time. Which counters unemployment because the more an economy does the faster it grows and the more specialized labor is needed.
So automation is good. But taxing a robot like a human being assumes we paid the robot a salary in the first place. Where the tax should be focused is instead on things like Duty, VAT and other taxes associated with buying and maintaining gadgets (which includes service contracts with companies meant to do that instead).
The labor item managing the robot is the one already paying their PAYE. Next thing youd know is youd be told to pay PAYE on your laptop.
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 10:57 AM, WANGARI KABIRU via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Blessed Wednesday!
Thank you for the insights and discussions!
What I am hearing Barrack from Erick is that "Who is the master of who? Technology without humanity is dead....and I guess it is the humanity to be dead..."
Mildred - what a piece ..."Oxford University researchers have estimated that 47 percent of U.S. jobs could be automated within the next two decades..."
Kivuva - From you drift, I wonder whether Bill Gates is alluding to the fact that there could be too much of this technology thing.
Locally, we have not even gotten into the AI-driven economy yet and its impact and we already have unemployment, underemployment not to mention the youth employment crisis.
What is of greater concern is that most employees are not even aware of this future so as to take up personal initiative for their careers. Yes, we have seen paralysis of operations by employees about to be made redundant such as in farms that want to mechanise and replace the people.
Which employers are these locally who are reskilling and reassigning their people as they adopt the technologies. They would be interesting cases since what is publicised is the redundancies of eg digital banks...soon digital hospitals, digital schools etc.
Human labour has been a national revenue point vide taxes. I believe the developments point towards how a country like Kenya will fund to run itself and provide public services through innovative perhaps unthought of revenue avenues.
On the other hand, national labour agencies should be in a position to proactively share information to direct talent towards the future careers.
Have a blessed day.
Regards/Wangari --- Pray God Bless. 2013Wangari circa - "Being of the Light, We are Restored Through Faith in Mind, Body and Spirit; We Manifest The Kingdom of God on Earth".
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017, 10:27, Eric M K Osiakwan via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
The other day, my buddy David Pearson and I visited his mentor Bob Doyle who is an information philosopher <http://www.informationphilosopher.com/about/> (has become my friend as well) and his son Jeremy in their VR studio and after playing with the toys we sat to discuss VR, AI, AR and Robots and in that convo Bob postulated that Robots “could” develop their own free will - that scared the hell out of me and for the rest of that afternoon I would dwell on that thought deep into my sleep that night.
Robots are currently slaves to humans but we know that robots have better eyesight, can work longer and better hours etc than humans so the import of Bob's postulation is that when (not if) Robots develop "free will” the master servant relationship would switch where we humans would become slaves to robots - I woke up the following day with this thought then it became clear to me why Elon Musk is worried that his friend Larry Page could destroy human kind and in the book “Elon Musk” by Ashlee Vanee, page 3 (Elon’s World) I quote “…He opened up about the major fear keeping him up at night: namely that Google cofounder and CEO Larry Page might well have been building a fleet of AI-enhanced robots capable of destroying mankind. “I’m really worried about this, “ Musk said….” - I have also being worried since.
Eric here
Eric M.K Osiakwan "Accraboy" 4 Skype @eosiakwan 4 Twitter www.ericosiakwan.com +233244386792 <+233%2024%20438%206792> 4 WhatsApp
On Mar 1, 2017, at 1:39 AM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Alex
Surgeons are finding it a lot easier to do surgery today using robots...
*Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113> / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 1 Mar 2017, at 8:21 AM, awatila--- via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Can a robot really take a doctors job?
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
*From: *Mildred Achoch via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent: *Wednesday, March 1, 2017 6:53 AM *To: *awatila@yahoo.co.uk *Cc: *Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
In a related topic, here are the 5 jobs robots will take first: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-jobs-robots-take- first-shelly-palmer?trk=eml-email_feed_ecosystem_digest_ 01-hero-0-null&midToken=AQFVkI2BeqJI7g&fromEmail= fromEmail&ut=1P1hcNFzkBwnE1 Regards, Mildred Achoch.
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I have a couple of concerns about this specific issue:
1. Firstly, robots do not do everything a person does. That said that is why robots are "assisted" by human elements. The robots are only an extension of the human function to make it "more efficient". In most cases a robot is specialized in one specific line item duty. If they are placing a wheel on a car in the plant they don't place a wheel on a car and go on to record it in a book somewhere. They do just that. They did not go to school to learn manufacturing processes. 2. Secondly, what would be termed as a robot (without abusing the term). Is my WiFi modem a robot? Is my blender a robot? Is my car also a robot?? 3. Thirdly, are robots employed or purchased? (I thought VAT on buying and maintaining robots was already a thing)
Not entirely for this idea for sure.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
No doubt. That we need to ensure that we hold our government to account on how they spend our taxes and wherever we can we need to chip in and help the disadvantaged. We should be our brothers' and sisters' keepers. *Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 4:54 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
That is true Ali. Human will have to develop skills needed in this evolving society. But we should remember in every society, there still will be the F student. There will be the elderly, and most importantly, the peasants. Those with skills will prosper. But we need social nets for the disadvantaged, and those who life has served them only lemons. This category will always be there in every society
On Feb 28, 2017 3:49 PM, "Admin CampusCiti" <info@campusciti.com> wrote:
We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up to do more important work higher the value chain.
In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food chain.
*Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Your point is very good Mark Elkins.
I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people,
they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or
re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can
be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That
would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
This is probably the best reply so far!
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of
freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them
with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common
services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government
that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM
To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Mark Kipyegon
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar
arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke"
<kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them
with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
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share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254733206359 Skype: barrack.otieno PGP ID: 0x2611D86A
Eric Food for thought. To understand how this may go its worth watching the fiction TV series 'Person of Interest' https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_Interest_(TV_series) Far fetched? That's the level AI can can reach. I remember watching Will Smith's 'Enemy of the State ' back in 1998 and the Genre for the movie then was Science Fiction. Everything that was fiction then has come to pass - From drones to the ubiquitous CCTV cameras all over the world.. Food for thought.. Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle Sent from my iPad
On 1 Mar 2017, at 10:25 AM, Eric M K Osiakwan via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
The other day, my buddy David Pearson and I visited his mentor Bob Doyle who is an information philosopher (has become my friend as well) and his son Jeremy in their VR studio and after playing with the toys we sat to discuss VR, AI, AR and Robots and in that convo Bob postulated that Robots “could” develop their own free will - that scared the hell out of me and for the rest of that afternoon I would dwell on that thought deep into my sleep that night.
Robots are currently slaves to humans but we know that robots have better eyesight, can work longer and better hours etc than humans so the import of Bob's postulation is that when (not if) Robots develop "free will” the master servant relationship would switch where we humans would become slaves to robots - I woke up the following day with this thought then it became clear to me why Elon Musk is worried that his friend Larry Page could destroy human kind and in the book “Elon Musk” by Ashlee Vanee, page 3 (Elon’s World) I quote “…He opened up about the major fear keeping him up at night: namely that Google cofounder and CEO Larry Page might well have been building a fleet of AI-enhanced robots capable of destroying mankind. “I’m really worried about this, “ Musk said….” - I have also being worried since.
Eric here
Eric M.K Osiakwan "Accraboy" 4 Skype @eosiakwan 4 Twitter www.ericosiakwan.com +233244386792 4 WhatsApp
On Mar 1, 2017, at 1:39 AM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Alex
Surgeons are finding it a lot easier to do surgery today using robots...
Ali Hussein Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 1 Mar 2017, at 8:21 AM, awatila--- via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Can a robot really take a doctors job?
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mildred Achoch via kictanet Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 6:53 AM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Mildred Achoch Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
In a related topic, here are the 5 jobs robots will take first: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-jobs-robots-take-first-shelly-palmer?trk=eml-email_feed_ecosystem_digest_01-hero-0-null&midToken=AQFVkI2BeqJI7g&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=1P1hcNFzkBwnE1
Regards, Mildred Achoch.
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: I have a couple of concerns about this specific issue: Firstly, robots do not do everything a person does. That said that is why robots are "assisted" by human elements. The robots are only an extension of the human function to make it "more efficient". In most cases a robot is specialized in one specific line item duty. If they are placing a wheel on a car in the plant they don't place a wheel on a car and go on to record it in a book somewhere. They do just that. They did not go to school to learn manufacturing processes. Secondly, what would be termed as a robot (without abusing the term). Is my WiFi modem a robot? Is my blender a robot? Is my car also a robot?? Thirdly, are robots employed or purchased? (I thought VAT on buying and maintaining robots was already a thing) Not entirely for this idea for sure.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: No doubt. That we need to ensure that we hold our government to account on how they spend our taxes and wherever we can we need to chip in and help the disadvantaged. We should be our brothers' and sisters' keepers.
Ali Hussein Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 4:54 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
That is true Ali. Human will have to develop skills needed in this evolving society. But we should remember in every society, there still will be the F student. There will be the elderly, and most importantly, the peasants. Those with skills will prosper. But we need social nets for the disadvantaged, and those who life has served them only lemons. This category will always be there in every society
On Feb 28, 2017 3:49 PM, "Admin CampusCiti" <info@campusciti.com> wrote: We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up to do more important work higher the value chain.
In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food chain.
Ali Hussein Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Your point is very good Mark Elkins.
I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people, they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
This is probably the best reply so far!
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Mark Kipyegon Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
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Person of Interest is such a good example. Good, no great, when you're in control. Disastrous when the algorithms you have written decide to go off on a tangent or worsestill, falls into the wrong hands. I have a love hate relationship with Larry Page and Brin. Love that on a daily basis they surprise me with unbelievable solutions to problems I didn't think I had. Hate because, well- they surprise me with unbelievable solutions. What else could they do? I think the fears are well founded. I also think the train left the station a couple decades back. It's an exciting world, we must push the buttons. It's not even about the money any more. We must outdo. It is the curse of Moore's Law manifesting in robotics. On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:20 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Eric
Food for thought. To understand how this may go its worth watching the fiction TV series *'Person of Interest'*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_Interest_(TV_series)
Far fetched? That's the level AI can can reach.
I remember watching Will Smith's 'Enemy of the State ' back in 1998 and the Genre for the movie then was Science Fiction. Everything that was fiction then has come to pass - From drones to the ubiquitous CCTV cameras all over the world..
Food for thought..
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle
Sent from my iPad
On 1 Mar 2017, at 10:25 AM, Eric M K Osiakwan via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
The other day, my buddy David Pearson and I visited his mentor Bob Doyle who is an information philosopher <http://www.informationphilosopher.com/about/> (has become my friend as well) and his son Jeremy in their VR studio and after playing with the toys we sat to discuss VR, AI, AR and Robots and in that convo Bob postulated that Robots “could” develop their own free will - that scared the hell out of me and for the rest of that afternoon I would dwell on that thought deep into my sleep that night.
Robots are currently slaves to humans but we know that robots have better eyesight, can work longer and better hours etc than humans so the import of Bob's postulation is that when (not if) Robots develop "free will” the master servant relationship would switch where we humans would become slaves to robots - I woke up the following day with this thought then it became clear to me why Elon Musk is worried that his friend Larry Page could destroy human kind and in the book “Elon Musk” by Ashlee Vanee, page 3 (Elon’s World) I quote “…He opened up about the major fear keeping him up at night: namely that Google cofounder and CEO Larry Page might well have been building a fleet of AI-enhanced robots capable of destroying mankind. “I’m really worried about this, “ Musk said….” - I have also being worried since.
Eric here
Eric M.K Osiakwan "Accraboy" 4 Skype @eosiakwan 4 Twitter www.ericosiakwan.com +233244386792 4 WhatsApp
On Mar 1, 2017, at 1:39 AM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Alex
Surgeons are finding it a lot easier to do surgery today using robots...
*Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 1 Mar 2017, at 8:21 AM, awatila--- via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Can a robot really take a doctors job?
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
*From: *Mildred Achoch via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent: *Wednesday, March 1, 2017 6:53 AM *To: *awatila@yahoo.co.uk *Cc: *Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
In a related topic, here are the 5 jobs robots will take first: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-jobs-robots-take- first-shelly-palmer?trk=eml-email_feed_ecosystem_digest_ 01-hero-0-null&midToken=AQFVkI2BeqJI7g&fromEmail= fromEmail&ut=1P1hcNFzkBwnE1 Regards, Mildred Achoch.
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I have a couple of concerns about this specific issue:
1. Firstly, robots do not do everything a person does. That said that is why robots are "assisted" by human elements. The robots are only an extension of the human function to make it "more efficient". In most cases a robot is specialized in one specific line item duty. If they are placing a wheel on a car in the plant they don't place a wheel on a car and go on to record it in a book somewhere. They do just that. They did not go to school to learn manufacturing processes. 2. Secondly, what would be termed as a robot (without abusing the term). Is my WiFi modem a robot? Is my blender a robot? Is my car also a robot?? 3. Thirdly, are robots employed or purchased? (I thought VAT on buying and maintaining robots was already a thing)
Not entirely for this idea for sure.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
No doubt. That we need to ensure that we hold our government to account on how they spend our taxes and wherever we can we need to chip in and help the disadvantaged. We should be our brothers' and sisters' keepers. *Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113> / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 4:54 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
That is true Ali. Human will have to develop skills needed in this evolving society. But we should remember in every society, there still will be the F student. There will be the elderly, and most importantly, the peasants. Those with skills will prosper. But we need social nets for the disadvantaged, and those who life has served them only lemons. This category will always be there in every society
On Feb 28, 2017 3:49 PM, "Admin CampusCiti" <info@campusciti.com> wrote:
We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up to do more important work higher the value chain.
In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food chain.
*Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113> / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Your point is very good Mark Elkins.
I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people,
they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or
re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can
be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That
would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
This is probably the best reply so far!
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of
freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them
with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common
services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government
that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM
To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Mark Kipyegon
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar
arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke"
<kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them
with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
_______________________________________________
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Well not sure about the statement "In a few years" that has been peddled. Robo-Advisory has taken root in most institutions in the west especially banking in the wealth advisory divisions. I have been involved in some advisory sessions where KE banks have been involved in understanding some of these technologies better and possible implementation. This will happen before you say AMEN!! Eric Mwangi Vault Global E Njoroge Mwangi Technology| FINTECH | Big Data Cell +44 7539372742 Skype: Erick.mwangi On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 9:54 AM, kanini mutemi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Person of Interest is such a good example. Good, no great, when you're in control. Disastrous when the algorithms you have written decide to go off on a tangent or worsestill, falls into the wrong hands.
I have a love hate relationship with Larry Page and Brin. Love that on a daily basis they surprise me with unbelievable solutions to problems I didn't think I had. Hate because, well- they surprise me with unbelievable solutions. What else could they do? I think the fears are well founded. I also think the train left the station a couple decades back. It's an exciting world, we must push the buttons. It's not even about the money any more. We must outdo. It is the curse of Moore's Law manifesting in robotics.
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:20 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Eric
Food for thought. To understand how this may go its worth watching the fiction TV series *'Person of Interest'*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_Interest_(TV_series)
Far fetched? That's the level AI can can reach.
I remember watching Will Smith's 'Enemy of the State ' back in 1998 and the Genre for the movie then was Science Fiction. Everything that was fiction then has come to pass - From drones to the ubiquitous CCTV cameras all over the world..
Food for thought..
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113>
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle
Sent from my iPad
On 1 Mar 2017, at 10:25 AM, Eric M K Osiakwan via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
The other day, my buddy David Pearson and I visited his mentor Bob Doyle who is an information philosopher <http://www.informationphilosopher.com/about/> (has become my friend as well) and his son Jeremy in their VR studio and after playing with the toys we sat to discuss VR, AI, AR and Robots and in that convo Bob postulated that Robots “could” develop their own free will - that scared the hell out of me and for the rest of that afternoon I would dwell on that thought deep into my sleep that night.
Robots are currently slaves to humans but we know that robots have better eyesight, can work longer and better hours etc than humans so the import of Bob's postulation is that when (not if) Robots develop "free will” the master servant relationship would switch where we humans would become slaves to robots - I woke up the following day with this thought then it became clear to me why Elon Musk is worried that his friend Larry Page could destroy human kind and in the book “Elon Musk” by Ashlee Vanee, page 3 (Elon’s World) I quote “…He opened up about the major fear keeping him up at night: namely that Google cofounder and CEO Larry Page might well have been building a fleet of AI-enhanced robots capable of destroying mankind. “I’m really worried about this, “ Musk said….” - I have also being worried since.
Eric here
Eric M.K Osiakwan "Accraboy" 4 Skype @eosiakwan 4 Twitter www.ericosiakwan.com +233244386792 <+233%2024%20438%206792> 4 WhatsApp
On Mar 1, 2017, at 1:39 AM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Alex
Surgeons are finding it a lot easier to do surgery today using robots...
*Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113> / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 1 Mar 2017, at 8:21 AM, awatila--- via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Can a robot really take a doctors job?
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
*From: *Mildred Achoch via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent: *Wednesday, March 1, 2017 6:53 AM *To: *awatila@yahoo.co.uk *Cc: *Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
In a related topic, here are the 5 jobs robots will take first: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-jobs-robots-take-fir st-shelly-palmer?trk=eml-email_feed_ecosystem_digest_01- hero-0-null&midToken=AQFVkI2BeqJI7g&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=1P1hcNFzkBwnE1 Regards, Mildred Achoch.
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I have a couple of concerns about this specific issue:
1. Firstly, robots do not do everything a person does. That said that is why robots are "assisted" by human elements. The robots are only an extension of the human function to make it "more efficient". In most cases a robot is specialized in one specific line item duty. If they are placing a wheel on a car in the plant they don't place a wheel on a car and go on to record it in a book somewhere. They do just that. They did not go to school to learn manufacturing processes. 2. Secondly, what would be termed as a robot (without abusing the term). Is my WiFi modem a robot? Is my blender a robot? Is my car also a robot?? 3. Thirdly, are robots employed or purchased? (I thought VAT on buying and maintaining robots was already a thing)
Not entirely for this idea for sure.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
No doubt. That we need to ensure that we hold our government to account on how they spend our taxes and wherever we can we need to chip in and help the disadvantaged. We should be our brothers' and sisters' keepers. *Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113> / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 4:54 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
That is true Ali. Human will have to develop skills needed in this evolving society. But we should remember in every society, there still will be the F student. There will be the elderly, and most importantly, the peasants. Those with skills will prosper. But we need social nets for the disadvantaged, and those who life has served them only lemons. This category will always be there in every society
On Feb 28, 2017 3:49 PM, "Admin CampusCiti" <info@campusciti.com> wrote:
We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up to do more important work higher the value chain.
In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food chain.
*Ali Hussein* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113> / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Your point is very good Mark Elkins.
I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people,
they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or
re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can
be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That
would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
This is probably the best reply so far!
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of
freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them
with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common
services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government
that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM
To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Mark Kipyegon
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar
arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke"
<kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them
with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
_______________________________________________
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regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 <+27%2012%20807%200590> Cell: +27.826010496 <+27%2082%20601%200496>
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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Mwendwa, Well put. Robots will never consume what they make, humans will and with no work or money to purchase what will be the point? On 28 Feb 2017 15:08, "Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Your point is very good Mark Elkins.
I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society. Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go? How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter? Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people, they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff. That would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
This is probably the best reply so far!
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding
On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: them
with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common services provided by the government.
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government that they need to pay for?
Regards,
Alex
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Mark Kipyegon Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
Message-ID:
<CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Barrack,
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
of people.
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them with
a robot
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
all the cash
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
the humanity.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje@posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
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participants (14)
-
Admin CampusCiti -
Ahmed Mohamed Maawy -
Ali Hussein -
awatila＠yahoo.co.uk -
Barrack Otieno -
Eric M K Osiakwan -
Erick Mwangi -
Job Muriuki -
kanini mutemi -
Mark Elkins -
Mark Kipyegon -
Mildred Achoch -
Mwendwa Kivuva -
WANGARI KABIRU