Hello Wangari,

The point that you mention about automation taking over manual labor (causing unemployment) needs to be a bit more investigated. From what we can see - countries with high amounts of automation tend to have less unemployment levels than countries that have no as much automation in processes. The reason for this being that automation brings about more efficiency, allowing more to be done in less time. Which counters unemployment because the more an economy does the faster it grows and the more specialized labor is needed.

So automation is good. But taxing a robot like a human being assumes we paid the robot a salary in the first place. Where the tax should be focused is instead on things like Duty, VAT and other taxes associated with buying and maintaining gadgets (which includes service contracts with companies meant to do that instead).

The labor item managing the robot is the one already paying their PAYE. Next thing youd know is youd be told to pay PAYE on your laptop.

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 10:57 AM, WANGARI KABIRU via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Blessed Wednesday!

Thank you for the insights and discussions!

What I am hearing Barrack from Erick is that "Who is the master of who? Technology without humanity is dead....and I guess it is the humanity to be dead..."

Mildred - what a piece ..."Oxford University researchers have estimated that 47 percent of U.S. jobs could be automated within the next two decades..."

Kivuva - From you drift, I wonder whether Bill Gates is alluding to the fact that there could be too much of this technology thing.
 
Locally, we have not even gotten into the AI-driven economy yet and its impact and we already have unemployment, underemployment not to mention the youth employment crisis.
 
What is of greater concern is that most employees are not even aware of this future so as to take up personal initiative for their careers. 
Yes, we have seen paralysis of operations by employees about to be made redundant such as in farms that want to mechanise and replace the people.

Which employers are these locally who are reskilling and reassigning their people as they adopt the technologies. They would be interesting cases since what is publicised is the redundancies of eg digital banks...soon digital hospitals, digital schools etc.

Human labour has been a national revenue point vide taxes. I believe the developments point towards how a country like Kenya will fund to run itself and provide public services through innovative perhaps unthought of revenue avenues.

On the other hand, national labour agencies should be in a position to proactively share information to direct talent towards the future careers.

Have a blessed day.

Regards/Wangari
---
Pray God Bless. 2013Wangari circa - "Being of the Light, We are Restored Through Faith in Mind, Body and Spirit; We Manifest The Kingdom of God on Earth".




On Wednesday, 1 March 2017, 10:27, Eric M K Osiakwan via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:


The other day, my buddy David Pearson and I visited his mentor Bob Doyle who is an information philosopher (has become my friend as well) and his son Jeremy in their VR studio and after playing with the toys we sat to discuss VR, AI, AR and Robots and in that convo Bob postulated that Robots “could” develop their own free will - that scared the hell out of me and for the rest of that afternoon I would dwell on that thought deep into my sleep that night. 

Robots are currently slaves to humans but we know that robots have better eyesight, can work longer and better hours etc than humans so the import of Bob's postulation is that when (not if) Robots develop "free will” the master servant relationship would switch where we humans would become slaves to robots - I woke up the following day with this thought then it became clear to me why Elon Musk is worried that his friend Larry Page could destroy human kind and in the book “Elon Musk” by Ashlee Vanee, page 3 (Elon’s World) I quote “…He opened up about the major fear keeping him up at night: namely that Google cofounder and CEO Larry Page might well have been building a fleet of AI-enhanced robots capable of destroying mankind. “I’m really worried about this, “ Musk said….” - I have also being worried since.

Eric here 


Eric M.K Osiakwan
 "Accraboy" 4 Skype
@eosiakwan 4 Twitter
 www.ericosiakwan.com
+233244386792 4 WhatsApp

On Mar 1, 2017, at 1:39 AM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Alex

Surgeons are finding it a lot easier to do surgery today using robots...

Ali Hussein
Hussein & Associates
+254 0713 601113 / 0770906375

Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
Blog: www.alyhussein.com

"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought".  ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi

Sent from my iPad

On 1 Mar 2017, at 8:21 AM, awatila--- via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Can a robot really take a doctors job?
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Mildred Achoch via kictanet
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 6:53 AM
To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Mildred Achoch
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
 
In a related topic, here are the 5 jobs robots will take first: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-jobs-robots-take-first-shelly-palmer?trk=eml-email_feed_ecosystem_digest_01-hero-0-null&midToken=AQFVkI2BeqJI7g&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=1P1hcNFzkBwnE1
Regards,
Mildred Achoch.

Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! 
http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com

 
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I have a couple of concerns about this specific issue:
  1. Firstly, robots do not do everything a person does. That said that is why robots are "assisted" by human elements. The robots are only an extension of the human function to make it "more efficient". In most cases a robot is specialized in one specific line item duty. If they are placing a wheel on a car in the plant they don't place a wheel on a car and go on to record it in a book somewhere. They do just that. They did not go to school to learn manufacturing processes.
  2. Secondly, what would be termed as a robot (without abusing the term). Is my WiFi modem a robot? Is my blender a robot? Is my car also a robot??
  3. Thirdly, are robots employed or purchased? (I thought VAT on buying and maintaining robots was already a thing)
Not entirely for this idea for sure.
 
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
No doubt. That we need to ensure that we hold our government to account on how they spend our taxes and wherever we can we need to chip in and help the disadvantaged. We should be our brothers' and sisters' keepers.
Ali Hussein
Hussein & Associates
+254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
 
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
 
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought".  ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
 
Sent from my iPad

On 28 Feb 2017, at 4:54 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
That is true Ali. Human will have to develop skills needed in this evolving society. But we should remember in every society, there still will be the F student. There will be the elderly, and most importantly, the peasants. Those with skills will prosper. But we need social nets for the disadvantaged, and those who life has served them only lemons. This category will always be there in every society 
 
On Feb 28, 2017 3:49 PM, "Admin CampusCiti" <info@campusciti.com> wrote:
We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up to do more important work higher the value chain.
 
In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food chain. 
 
Ali Hussein
Hussein & Associates
+254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
 
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
 
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought".  ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
 
Sent from my iPad

On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Your point is very good Mark Elkins.

I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is
the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society.
Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of
production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and
there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go?
How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter?
Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around
humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay
government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end
products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities.
______________________
Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
twitter.com/lordmwesh




On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet
<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people,
they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job internally or
re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company can
be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff.  That
would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
 
 
On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
 
This is probably the best reply so far!
 
Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a cup of
freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding them
with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
 
 
On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
 
I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
 
A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common
services provided by the government.
 
 
 
What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the government
that they need to pay for?
 
 
 
Regards,
 
 
 
Alex
 
 
 
 
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
 
 
From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM
To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Mark Kipyegon
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
 
 
 
During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use similar
arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
 
 
 
On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke"
<kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
Message: 3
 
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
 
From: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>
 
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
 
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
 
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
 
Message-ID:
 
  <CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA@mail.gmail.com>
 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
 
 
 
Barrack,
 
 
 
Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
 
of people.
 
Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them
with
 
a robot
 
for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
 
I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
 
all the cash
 
and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
 
the humanity.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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