GERMANY SECRET WEAPON
Hi Listers, I don't know if you are aware that Germany is the only country in Europe that hasn't so far experienced economic meltdown. There trick is that two thirds of Germany University students work as apprentices which are arranged by the government. In other words, their education policy is that you acquire skills first then sharpen them with degrees later. For me, all I want is whichever coalition that can implement these kind of policies that are already tried and tested. me two cents CHARLES N. NDUATI DIRECTOR, REVENUE GENERATION AND ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT -KENYATTA UNIVERSITY MOBILE:254-722728815 EMIAL:charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk,cnduati@gmail.com,
Charles, could you send me the data source for that percentage that two thirds of German students work as apprentices? I think that highly unlikely, not the least because you typically finish A levels (the German Abitur) at age 19, and university studies take around five years (I haven't lived in Germany for ten years, but at least back then, there were few universities that offered the anglophone division of undergraduate and postgraduate studies, so you usually go the whole distance). Some university students may undergo other vocational training (one of my friends trained as a carpenter before she studied to become an architect), but I doubt it's two thirds. It's not correct to say that the government arranges apprenticeships. What Germany does have is a relatively well developed vocational training system that is a combination of on-the-job training and parallel classroom training - and this can be anything from banking to carpentry to car mechanics etc. Germans like to regulate things, so the whole system is very regulated. The German university system has actually often been accused of producing students that are academically overqualified and of not much use in practical issues. In the anglophone system, in contrast, you can pick up the academic basicsin your undergraduate years and then gain practical experience - unless you do want an academic focus, in which case you continue studying. I think the takeaway for Kenya would be not to keep proliferating universities, but to focus more on creating a parallel system of vocational training and maybe polytechnics with a far more practical focus. That way, you could harness the energy and skills in the jua kali sector. Mind you, I don't think this is an either-or - for a diversified economy, you need both the high-end academic and research sector and also the vocational training sector. Andrea On 14 March 2013 08:15, charles nduati <charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
Hi Listers,
I don't know if you are aware that Germany is the only country in Europe that hasn't so far experienced economic meltdown. There trick is that two thirds of Germany University students work as apprentices which are arranged by the government. In other words, their education policy is that you acquire skills first then sharpen them with degrees later.
For me, all I want is whichever coalition that can implement these kind of policies that are already tried and tested.
me two cents
CHARLES N. NDUATI DIRECTOR, REVENUE GENERATION AND ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT -KENYATTA UNIVERSITY MOBILE:254-722728815 EMIAL:charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk,cnduati@gmail.com,
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher www.ratio-magazine.com www.africa-assets.com
Being a German living abroad (in Copenhagen, Denmark), where I have been teaching at three universities in media studies and communication since 1996, I agree very much with the points that Andrea raises. Unfortunately the German Academic system is less profession oriented than your input seems to suggest Charles. best regards Norbert From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+norbert=ruc.dk@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Andrea Bohnstedt Sent: 14. marts 2013 09:25 To: Norbert Wildermuth Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] GERMANY SECRET WEAPON Charles, could you send me the data source for that percentage that two thirds of German students work as apprentices? I think that highly unlikely, not the least because you typically finish A levels (the German Abitur) at age 19, and university studies take around five years (I haven't lived in Germany for ten years, but at least back then, there were few universities that offered the anglophone division of undergraduate and postgraduate studies, so you usually go the whole distance). Some university students may undergo other vocational training (one of my friends trained as a carpenter before she studied to become an architect), but I doubt it's two thirds. It's not correct to say that the government arranges apprenticeships. What Germany does have is a relatively well developed vocational training system that is a combination of on-the-job training and parallel classroom training - and this can be anything from banking to carpentry to car mechanics etc. Germans like to regulate things, so the whole system is very regulated. The German university system has actually often been accused of producing students that are academically overqualified and of not much use in practical issues. In the anglophone system, in contrast, you can pick up the academic basicsin your undergraduate years and then gain practical experience - unless you do want an academic focus, in which case you continue studying. I think the takeaway for Kenya would be not to keep proliferating universities, but to focus more on creating a parallel system of vocational training and maybe polytechnics with a far more practical focus. That way, you could harness the energy and skills in the jua kali sector. Mind you, I don't think this is an either-or - for a diversified economy, you need both the high-end academic and research sector and also the vocational training sector. Andrea On 14 March 2013 08:15, charles nduati <charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk<mailto:charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote: Hi Listers, I don't know if you are aware that Germany is the only country in Europe that hasn't so far experienced economic meltdown. There trick is that two thirds of Germany University students work as apprentices which are arranged by the government. In other words, their education policy is that you acquire skills first then sharpen them with degrees later. For me, all I want is whichever coalition that can implement these kind of policies that are already tried and tested. me two cents CHARLES N. NDUATI DIRECTOR, REVENUE GENERATION AND ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT -KENYATTA UNIVERSITY MOBILE:254-722728815 EMIAL:charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk<mailto:EMIAL%3Acharlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk>,cnduati@gmail.com<mailto:cnduati@gmail.com>, _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/andrea.bohnstedt%40rat... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Andrea Bohnstedt<http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher www.ratio-magazine.com<http://www.ratio-magazine.com> www.africa-assets.com<http://www.africa-assets.com>
This is interesting.. Is there a 'Brand Bubble' emerging here? What we perceive as German excellence and what is the reality. I'm really curious. We know that for example German Engineering is held in the highest regard - precision machine tooling (even the Chinese use a lot of German Machinery to manufacture computers, cell-phones etc) or is this just a perception and the reality is very different? My question then is what can we learn from this? We know that the rush to turn all our polytechnics to universities is not sustainable. But what is the threshold? What is the right mix of tertiary and universities? Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 "The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad On Mar 14, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Norbert Wildermuth <norbert@ruc.dk> wrote:
Being a German living abroad (in Copenhagen, Denmark), where I have been teaching at three universities in media studies and communication since 1996, I agree very much with the points that Andrea raises. Unfortunately the German Academic system is less profession oriented than your input seems to suggest Charles.
best regards
Norbert
From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+norbert=ruc.dk@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Andrea Bohnstedt Sent: 14. marts 2013 09:25 To: Norbert Wildermuth Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] GERMANY SECRET WEAPON
Charles, could you send me the data source for that percentage that two thirds of German students work as apprentices? I think that highly unlikely, not the least because you typically finish A levels (the German Abitur) at age 19, and university studies take around five years (I haven't lived in Germany for ten years, but at least back then, there were few universities that offered the anglophone division of undergraduate and postgraduate studies, so you usually go the whole distance).
Some university students may undergo other vocational training (one of my friends trained as a carpenter before she studied to become an architect), but I doubt it's two thirds.
It's not correct to say that the government arranges apprenticeships. What Germany does have is a relatively well developed vocational training system that is a combination of on-the-job training and parallel classroom training - and this can be anything from banking to carpentry to car mechanics etc.
Germans like to regulate things, so the whole system is very regulated.
The German university system has actually often been accused of producing students that are academically overqualified and of not much use in practical issues. In the anglophone system, in contrast, you can pick up the academic basicsin your undergraduate years and then gain practical experience - unless you do want an academic focus, in which case you continue studying.
I think the takeaway for Kenya would be not to keep proliferating universities, but to focus more on creating a parallel system of vocational training and maybe polytechnics with a far more practical focus. That way, you could harness the energy and skills in the jua kali sector. Mind you, I don't think this is an either-or - for a diversified economy, you need both the high-end academic and research sector and also the vocational training sector.
Andrea
On 14 March 2013 08:15, charles nduati <charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi Listers,
I don't know if you are aware that Germany is the only country in Europe that hasn't so far experienced economic meltdown. There trick is that two thirds of Germany University students work as apprentices which are arranged by the government. In other words, their education policy is that you acquire skills first then sharpen them with degrees later.
For me, all I want is whichever coalition that can implement these kind of policies that are already tried and tested.
me two cents
CHARLES N. NDUATI DIRECTOR, REVENUE GENERATION AND ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT -KENYATTA UNIVERSITY MOBILE:254-722728815 EMIAL:charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk,cnduati@gmail.com,
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher
www.ratio-magazine.com www.africa-assets.com
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Not sure if it's a brand bubble, and as I said, I haven't lived in Germany for a decade. German engineering is known to be excellent, but I think the German motor industry went through a bit of a crisis years ago because the cars were just too good. Japanese firms learned to build good, reliable cars much cheaper - they weren't that excellent, but then there's a level of excellence that might not be necessary for an ordinary consumer with a limited budget. I'm sure the industry has adjusted for this by now. For tech manufacturing, the southern German area - Bavaria - is worth looking at. Like Facebook says: it's complicated. I think the vocational training system is well worth looking at to see what inspiration Kenya can take to professionalise the fundi/jua kali industry gradually. Anecdotally: My parents build a new house last year. Comes with all sorts of exciting things: solar panels, the fireplace will heat the water supply when it gets too hot, the house is so well isolated that you HAVE to air out the rooms to let out moisture, the cooker switches itself off on its own if there's no pot on it etc. When I visited, I stood kinda dumbfounded in the shower in front of the water tabs wondering how on earth to make the water come out and felt massively stupid. Engineers!! :) On 14 March 2013 11:29, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
This is interesting..
Is there a 'Brand Bubble' emerging here? What we perceive as German excellence and what is the reality. I'm really curious. We know that for example German Engineering is held in the highest regard - precision machine tooling (even the Chinese use a lot of German Machinery to manufacture computers, cell-phones etc) or is this just a perception and the reality is very different?
My question then is what can we learn from this? We know that the rush to turn all our polytechnics to universities is not sustainable. But what is the threshold? What is the right mix of tertiary and universities?
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 14, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Norbert Wildermuth <norbert@ruc.dk> wrote:
Being a German living abroad (in Copenhagen, Denmark), where I have been teaching at three universities in media studies and communication since 1996, I agree very much with the points that Andrea raises. Unfortunately the German Academic system is less profession oriented than your input seems to suggest Charles.****
** **
best regards****
** **
Norbert****
** **
*From:* kictanet [ mailto:kictanet-bounces+norbert=ruc.dk@lists.kictanet.or.ke<kictanet-bounces+norbert=ruc.dk@lists.kictanet.or.ke>] *On Behalf Of *Andrea Bohnstedt *Sent:* 14. marts 2013 09:25 *To:* Norbert Wildermuth *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] GERMANY SECRET WEAPON****
** **
Charles, could you send me the data source for that percentage that two thirds of German students work as apprentices? I think that highly unlikely, not the least because you typically finish A levels (the German Abitur) at age 19, and university studies take around five years (I haven't lived in Germany for ten years, but at least back then, there were few universities that offered the anglophone division of undergraduate and postgraduate studies, so you usually go the whole distance).
Some university students may undergo other vocational training (one of my friends trained as a carpenter before she studied to become an architect), but I doubt it's two thirds.
It's not correct to say that the government arranges apprenticeships. What Germany does have is a relatively well developed vocational training system that is a combination of on-the-job training and parallel classroom training - and this can be anything from banking to carpentry to car mechanics etc.
Germans like to regulate things, so the whole system is very regulated.
The German university system has actually often been accused of producing students that are academically overqualified and of not much use in practical issues. In the anglophone system, in contrast, you can pick up the academic basicsin your undergraduate years and then gain practical experience - unless you do want an academic focus, in which case you continue studying.
I think the takeaway for Kenya would be not to keep proliferating universities, but to focus more on creating a parallel system of vocational training and maybe polytechnics with a far more practical focus. That way, you could harness the energy and skills in the jua kali sector. Mind you, I don't think this is an either-or - for a diversified economy, you need both the high-end academic and research sector and also the vocational training sector.
Andrea ****
On 14 March 2013 08:15, charles nduati <charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:****
Hi Listers,****
** **
I don't know if you are aware that Germany is the only country in Europe that hasn't so far experienced economic meltdown. There trick is that two thirds of Germany University students work as apprentices which are arranged by the government. In other words, their education policy is that you acquire skills first then sharpen them with degrees later.****
** **
For me, all I want is whichever coalition that can implement these kind of policies that are already tried and tested.****
** **
me two cents****
** **
** **
****
CHARLES N. NDUATI DIRECTOR, REVENUE GENERATION AND ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT -KENYATTA UNIVERSITY MOBILE:254-722728815 EMIAL:charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk,cnduati@gmail.com,****
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher
www.ratio-magazine.com www.africa-assets.com
****
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher www.ratio-magazine.com www.africa-assets.com
Andrea my dear sister (on a light note) wewe umekuwa mwafrika! (You have become an African) Have an inspiring rest of the week. Ali Hussein On 14 Mar 2013 11:40, "Andrea Bohnstedt" < andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote:
Not sure if it's a brand bubble, and as I said, I haven't lived in Germany for a decade.
German engineering is known to be excellent, but I think the German motor industry went through a bit of a crisis years ago because the cars were just too good. Japanese firms learned to build good, reliable cars much cheaper - they weren't that excellent, but then there's a level of excellence that might not be necessary for an ordinary consumer with a limited budget. I'm sure the industry has adjusted for this by now. For tech manufacturing, the southern German area - Bavaria - is worth looking at.
Like Facebook says: it's complicated. I think the vocational training system is well worth looking at to see what inspiration Kenya can take to professionalise the fundi/jua kali industry gradually.
Anecdotally: My parents build a new house last year. Comes with all sorts of exciting things: solar panels, the fireplace will heat the water supply when it gets too hot, the house is so well isolated that you HAVE to air out the rooms to let out moisture, the cooker switches itself off on its own if there's no pot on it etc. When I visited, I stood kinda dumbfounded in the shower in front of the water tabs wondering how on earth to make the water come out and felt massively stupid. Engineers!! :)
On 14 March 2013 11:29, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
This is interesting..
Is there a 'Brand Bubble' emerging here? What we perceive as German excellence and what is the reality. I'm really curious. We know that for example German Engineering is held in the highest regard - precision machine tooling (even the Chinese use a lot of German Machinery to manufacture computers, cell-phones etc) or is this just a perception and the reality is very different?
My question then is what can we learn from this? We know that the rush to turn all our polytechnics to universities is not sustainable. But what is the threshold? What is the right mix of tertiary and universities?
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 14, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Norbert Wildermuth <norbert@ruc.dk> wrote:
Being a German living abroad (in Copenhagen, Denmark), where I have been teaching at three universities in media studies and communication since 1996, I agree very much with the points that Andrea raises. Unfortunately the German Academic system is less profession oriented than your input seems to suggest Charles.****
** **
best regards****
** **
Norbert****
** **
*From:* kictanet [ mailto:kictanet-bounces+norbert=ruc.dk@lists.kictanet.or.ke<kictanet-bounces+norbert=ruc.dk@lists.kictanet.or.ke>] *On Behalf Of *Andrea Bohnstedt *Sent:* 14. marts 2013 09:25 *To:* Norbert Wildermuth *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] GERMANY SECRET WEAPON****
** **
Charles, could you send me the data source for that percentage that two thirds of German students work as apprentices? I think that highly unlikely, not the least because you typically finish A levels (the German Abitur) at age 19, and university studies take around five years (I haven't lived in Germany for ten years, but at least back then, there were few universities that offered the anglophone division of undergraduate and postgraduate studies, so you usually go the whole distance).
Some university students may undergo other vocational training (one of my friends trained as a carpenter before she studied to become an architect), but I doubt it's two thirds.
It's not correct to say that the government arranges apprenticeships. What Germany does have is a relatively well developed vocational training system that is a combination of on-the-job training and parallel classroom training - and this can be anything from banking to carpentry to car mechanics etc.
Germans like to regulate things, so the whole system is very regulated.
The German university system has actually often been accused of producing students that are academically overqualified and of not much use in practical issues. In the anglophone system, in contrast, you can pick up the academic basicsin your undergraduate years and then gain practical experience - unless you do want an academic focus, in which case you continue studying.
I think the takeaway for Kenya would be not to keep proliferating universities, but to focus more on creating a parallel system of vocational training and maybe polytechnics with a far more practical focus. That way, you could harness the energy and skills in the jua kali sector. Mind you, I don't think this is an either-or - for a diversified economy, you need both the high-end academic and research sector and also the vocational training sector.
Andrea ****
On 14 March 2013 08:15, charles nduati <charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:****
Hi Listers,****
** **
I don't know if you are aware that Germany is the only country in Europe that hasn't so far experienced economic meltdown. There trick is that two thirds of Germany University students work as apprentices which are arranged by the government. In other words, their education policy is that you acquire skills first then sharpen them with degrees later.****
** **
For me, all I want is whichever coalition that can implement these kind of policies that are already tried and tested.****
** **
me two cents****
** **
** **
****
CHARLES N. NDUATI DIRECTOR, REVENUE GENERATION AND ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT -KENYATTA UNIVERSITY MOBILE:254-722728815 EMIAL:charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk,cnduati@gmail.com,****
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher
www.ratio-magazine.com www.africa-assets.com
****
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher
www.ratio-magazine.com www.africa-assets.com
Even me, I think so! After years in Frankfurt, after my dad's retirement, my parents ended up building the house in the tiny town where I spent the first four years of my life. Like any good African, I now have my rural home. Shags! On 14 March 2013 11:47, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Andrea my dear sister (on a light note) wewe umekuwa mwafrika! (You have become an African)
Have an inspiring rest of the week.
Ali Hussein On 14 Mar 2013 11:40, "Andrea Bohnstedt" < andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote:
Not sure if it's a brand bubble, and as I said, I haven't lived in Germany for a decade.
German engineering is known to be excellent, but I think the German motor industry went through a bit of a crisis years ago because the cars were just too good. Japanese firms learned to build good, reliable cars much cheaper - they weren't that excellent, but then there's a level of excellence that might not be necessary for an ordinary consumer with a limited budget. I'm sure the industry has adjusted for this by now. For tech manufacturing, the southern German area - Bavaria - is worth looking at.
Like Facebook says: it's complicated. I think the vocational training system is well worth looking at to see what inspiration Kenya can take to professionalise the fundi/jua kali industry gradually.
Anecdotally: My parents build a new house last year. Comes with all sorts of exciting things: solar panels, the fireplace will heat the water supply when it gets too hot, the house is so well isolated that you HAVE to air out the rooms to let out moisture, the cooker switches itself off on its own if there's no pot on it etc. When I visited, I stood kinda dumbfounded in the shower in front of the water tabs wondering how on earth to make the water come out and felt massively stupid. Engineers!! :)
On 14 March 2013 11:29, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
This is interesting..
Is there a 'Brand Bubble' emerging here? What we perceive as German excellence and what is the reality. I'm really curious. We know that for example German Engineering is held in the highest regard - precision machine tooling (even the Chinese use a lot of German Machinery to manufacture computers, cell-phones etc) or is this just a perception and the reality is very different?
My question then is what can we learn from this? We know that the rush to turn all our polytechnics to universities is not sustainable. But what is the threshold? What is the right mix of tertiary and universities?
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 14, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Norbert Wildermuth <norbert@ruc.dk> wrote:
Being a German living abroad (in Copenhagen, Denmark), where I have been teaching at three universities in media studies and communication since 1996, I agree very much with the points that Andrea raises. Unfortunately the German Academic system is less profession oriented than your input seems to suggest Charles.****
** **
best regards****
** **
Norbert****
** **
*From:* kictanet [ mailto:kictanet-bounces+norbert=ruc.dk@lists.kictanet.or.ke<kictanet-bounces+norbert=ruc.dk@lists.kictanet.or.ke>] *On Behalf Of *Andrea Bohnstedt *Sent:* 14. marts 2013 09:25 *To:* Norbert Wildermuth *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] GERMANY SECRET WEAPON****
** **
Charles, could you send me the data source for that percentage that two thirds of German students work as apprentices? I think that highly unlikely, not the least because you typically finish A levels (the German Abitur) at age 19, and university studies take around five years (I haven't lived in Germany for ten years, but at least back then, there were few universities that offered the anglophone division of undergraduate and postgraduate studies, so you usually go the whole distance).
Some university students may undergo other vocational training (one of my friends trained as a carpenter before she studied to become an architect), but I doubt it's two thirds.
It's not correct to say that the government arranges apprenticeships. What Germany does have is a relatively well developed vocational training system that is a combination of on-the-job training and parallel classroom training - and this can be anything from banking to carpentry to car mechanics etc.
Germans like to regulate things, so the whole system is very regulated.
The German university system has actually often been accused of producing students that are academically overqualified and of not much use in practical issues. In the anglophone system, in contrast, you can pick up the academic basicsin your undergraduate years and then gain practical experience - unless you do want an academic focus, in which case you continue studying.
I think the takeaway for Kenya would be not to keep proliferating universities, but to focus more on creating a parallel system of vocational training and maybe polytechnics with a far more practical focus. That way, you could harness the energy and skills in the jua kali sector. Mind you, I don't think this is an either-or - for a diversified economy, you need both the high-end academic and research sector and also the vocational training sector.
Andrea ****
On 14 March 2013 08:15, charles nduati <charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:****
Hi Listers,****
** **
I don't know if you are aware that Germany is the only country in Europe that hasn't so far experienced economic meltdown. There trick is that two thirds of Germany University students work as apprentices which are arranged by the government. In other words, their education policy is that you acquire skills first then sharpen them with degrees later.****
** **
For me, all I want is whichever coalition that can implement these kind of policies that are already tried and tested.****
** **
me two cents****
** **
** **
****
CHARLES N. NDUATI DIRECTOR, REVENUE GENERATION AND ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT -KENYATTA UNIVERSITY MOBILE:254-722728815 EMIAL:charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk,cnduati@gmail.com,****
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher
www.ratio-magazine.com www.africa-assets.com
****
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher
www.ratio-magazine.com www.africa-assets.com
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher www.ratio-magazine.com www.africa-assets.com
I haven't laid a foot in Germany so I am the most unqualified to comment on this but couldn't help it. Being a University student I can relate the frustration that is so endemic in the system it seems inbuilt. There are units I have taken especially first year that were quite simply unnecessary in my profession and I can safely say I will not be using them any time soon. There is always the chance that am a young arrogant (Ignorant?) generation Y that believes he knows more than his professor but once I go for internship and I learn the archaic contraption that was used to train me got phased out in the 80's then I feel like my time was wasted. I think the primary workforce for the economy should be students/ apprentices. Right from first year the student should be embedded into a firm that is in the said career line that is being trained for. Why go through 4-5 years through an academic course then need more training at a company's expense? Dont the Universities feel like they are not adding to the society? What is their performance metric? How does churning useless graduates help the discipline? The younger lecturers(and progressive older ones ) that train me express their frustration at the university administrations for basically stiffling development and making moronic decisions based on petty personality politics. On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt < andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote:
Even me, I think so!
After years in Frankfurt, after my dad's retirement, my parents ended up building the house in the tiny town where I spent the first four years of my life. Like any good African, I now have my rural home. Shags!
On 14 March 2013 11:47, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Andrea my dear sister (on a light note) wewe umekuwa mwafrika! (You have become an African)
Have an inspiring rest of the week.
Ali Hussein On 14 Mar 2013 11:40, "Andrea Bohnstedt" < andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote:
Not sure if it's a brand bubble, and as I said, I haven't lived in Germany for a decade.
German engineering is known to be excellent, but I think the German motor industry went through a bit of a crisis years ago because the cars were just too good. Japanese firms learned to build good, reliable cars much cheaper - they weren't that excellent, but then there's a level of excellence that might not be necessary for an ordinary consumer with a limited budget. I'm sure the industry has adjusted for this by now. For tech manufacturing, the southern German area - Bavaria - is worth looking at.
Like Facebook says: it's complicated. I think the vocational training system is well worth looking at to see what inspiration Kenya can take to professionalise the fundi/jua kali industry gradually.
Anecdotally: My parents build a new house last year. Comes with all sorts of exciting things: solar panels, the fireplace will heat the water supply when it gets too hot, the house is so well isolated that you HAVE to air out the rooms to let out moisture, the cooker switches itself off on its own if there's no pot on it etc. When I visited, I stood kinda dumbfounded in the shower in front of the water tabs wondering how on earth to make the water come out and felt massively stupid. Engineers!! :)
On 14 March 2013 11:29, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
This is interesting..
Is there a 'Brand Bubble' emerging here? What we perceive as German excellence and what is the reality. I'm really curious. We know that for example German Engineering is held in the highest regard - precision machine tooling (even the Chinese use a lot of German Machinery to manufacture computers, cell-phones etc) or is this just a perception and the reality is very different?
My question then is what can we learn from this? We know that the rush to turn all our polytechnics to universities is not sustainable. But what is the threshold? What is the right mix of tertiary and universities?
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 773/713 601113
"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 14, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Norbert Wildermuth <norbert@ruc.dk> wrote:
Being a German living abroad (in Copenhagen, Denmark), where I have been teaching at three universities in media studies and communication since 1996, I agree very much with the points that Andrea raises. Unfortunately the German Academic system is less profession oriented than your input seems to suggest Charles.****
** **
best regards****
** **
Norbert****
** **
*From:* kictanet [ mailto:kictanet-bounces+norbert=ruc.dk@lists.kictanet.or.ke<kictanet-bounces+norbert=ruc.dk@lists.kictanet.or.ke>] *On Behalf Of *Andrea Bohnstedt *Sent:* 14. marts 2013 09:25 *To:* Norbert Wildermuth *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] GERMANY SECRET WEAPON****
** **
Charles, could you send me the data source for that percentage that two thirds of German students work as apprentices? I think that highly unlikely, not the least because you typically finish A levels (the German Abitur) at age 19, and university studies take around five years (I haven't lived in Germany for ten years, but at least back then, there were few universities that offered the anglophone division of undergraduate and postgraduate studies, so you usually go the whole distance).
Some university students may undergo other vocational training (one of my friends trained as a carpenter before she studied to become an architect), but I doubt it's two thirds.
It's not correct to say that the government arranges apprenticeships. What Germany does have is a relatively well developed vocational training system that is a combination of on-the-job training and parallel classroom training - and this can be anything from banking to carpentry to car mechanics etc.
Germans like to regulate things, so the whole system is very regulated.
The German university system has actually often been accused of producing students that are academically overqualified and of not much use in practical issues. In the anglophone system, in contrast, you can pick up the academic basicsin your undergraduate years and then gain practical experience - unless you do want an academic focus, in which case you continue studying.
I think the takeaway for Kenya would be not to keep proliferating universities, but to focus more on creating a parallel system of vocational training and maybe polytechnics with a far more practical focus. That way, you could harness the energy and skills in the jua kali sector. Mind you, I don't think this is an either-or - for a diversified economy, you need both the high-end academic and research sector and also the vocational training sector.
Andrea ****
On 14 March 2013 08:15, charles nduati <charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:****
Hi Listers,****
** **
I don't know if you are aware that Germany is the only country in Europe that hasn't so far experienced economic meltdown. There trick is that two thirds of Germany University students work as apprentices which are arranged by the government. In other words, their education policy is that you acquire skills first then sharpen them with degrees later.****
** **
For me, all I want is whichever coalition that can implement these kind of policies that are already tried and tested.****
** **
me two cents****
** **
** **
****
CHARLES N. NDUATI DIRECTOR, REVENUE GENERATION AND ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT -KENYATTA UNIVERSITY MOBILE:254-722728815 EMIAL:charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk,cnduati@gmail.com,****
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Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/andrea.bohnstedt%40rat...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher
www.ratio-magazine.com www.africa-assets.com
****
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/andrea.bohnstedt%40rat...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher
www.ratio-magazine.com www.africa-assets.com
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher
www.ratio-magazine.com www.africa-assets.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke
participants (5)
-
Ali Hussein -
Andrea Bohnstedt -
charles nduati -
Mark Mwangi -
Norbert Wildermuth