Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Discipline & Ethics
I would love to know how many of the people here met Kevit and the results.the discussion is just making me realise Kenyans have woken up after the Grand Saga.So Kevit?Any good discussions you had and way forward? 2008/7/13 <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke>:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya (kevit desai)
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Message: 1 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:37:11 +0300 From: "kevit desai" <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya To: <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Message-ID: <E1KHy1I-0008Rn-Cw@mail01.safaricom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Why don't we all meet at the Jacaranda, land mark, Westlands at 5.00pm today. At the poolside.
Informal discussion. I will be waiting.
Kevit Desai
_____
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of wesley kiriinya Sent: 13 July 2008 10:52 To: kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya
Gentlemen,
Before these so called foreigners got these positions that Kenyans would have occupied, what were Kenyans waiting for? (Honest question.)
If there is a higher appointing authority that picks these so called foreigners over Kenyans then it's them to blame (if there is a good reason).
That said, as much as free speech is appreciated, so is discretion. Sorry to say but it is embarrassing to read some of these posts.
Regards.
--- On Sun, 7/13/08, waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
From: waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 9:19 AM
Hi All - I am the one that asserted that Kenyan (ICT) associations should be run by Kenyans and I stand by that. It has absolutely nothing to do with racism. Every country has policies to protect its people. Even in the USA you can only stand for president if you were born American. Is that racism? Associations are at the heart of pushing for policy and it pains me to see foreigners jostling Kenyans out of the way and being the ones running up and down the Government corridors carrying "position papers".
I find it deplorable that Brian is using his position on the list to threaten to unsubscribe those who do not agree with his views and consign them to the Nyayo House dungeons. Brian you have been partisan on these issues throughout. You are issuing "apologies" to people you already sided with and they are quickly "accepting". At one time you were saying we visit KIF to see how they run meetings as though suggesting Kenyans do not know how to run meetings. Is this the Brian I knew or someone using your mail account? Tafadhali, wacha wananchi wasema hata kama uko pande ile ingine.
Waudo
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:52:02 +0300, "kevit desai" <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said:
Dear Brian,
Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman.
Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some off the very exciting things we are doing.
What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the success and contributions of some people. Kenya 's grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner , and others, they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICT's.
Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place.
Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us all to a common vision of ICT's for National development.
I am waiting..
Kevit Desai
_____
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe Sent: 12 July 2008 09:50 To: kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya
Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF,
I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue.
As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows.
I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya . I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum.
As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs.
I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month.
I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya , and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions.
Sincerely
Brian Munyao Longwe
Chairman, KICTANET
Sent from my iPhone
On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, " Marcel Werner " <marcelcwerner@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Kictanet membership,
The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies.
KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week).
Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable.
The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on <http://www.kictanet.or.ke/> http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance - I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members".
We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house.
We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense.
Best regards, Marcel Werner , chairman of KIF :)
2008/7/11 kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>:
Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false.
It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation.
For now I close my participation.
Kevit Desai
-----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto: <mailto:alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24
To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit;
KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR?
Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?.
regards,
On 7/11/08, kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004,
2005,
2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd
, Westlands - Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile : +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/>
<http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.ieee.org <http://www.ieee.org/>
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/>
<http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net
<http://www.innovation-africa.net/>
<http://www.aiesec.org/> http://www.aiesec.org <http://www.aiesec.org/>
<http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.africon2007.co.za
<http://www.africon2007.co.za/>
<http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/>
<http://www.ict.go.ke/> www.ict.go.ke <http://www.ict.go.ke/>
<http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.globalcompact.org
<http://www.globalcompact.org/>
<http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com
<http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> ]
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo < <mailto:skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com <http://gmail.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo <kictanet-bounces%2Bskisonzo>= gmail.com <http://gmail.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> ] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: <mailto:skisonzo@gmail.com> skisonzo@gmail.com
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga < <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" < <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" < <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" < <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru < <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
<http://www.innovation-africa.net/> www.innovation-africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/>
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET <http://innovation-africa.net/
Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com <http://whois.tucows.com/> Referral URL: <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/> http://domainhelp.opensrs.net <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/> Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET <http://ultra103.uk2.net/> Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET <http://ultra104.uk2.net/> Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> www.innovation-africa.co.ke <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> >> was re-directing to >> <http://www.kif.or.ke/> www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/> ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:
> From: kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce > in Kenya > To: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com > Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM > Hi Alex, > > I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can. > > Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and > market segment > associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence : > KEPSA decisions > are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from > the private > sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for > membership in KEPSA, neither > are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows > the same approach > for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and > government agencies are > member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR > BASIS with all > those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no > obligation to > offer service to non members. > > Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam > Mwaura of KEPSA or > Marcel Werner of KIF. > > > Kevit > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Gakuru [mailto: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com] > Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 > To: kevit desai > Cc: kictanet-lists > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > Kevit, > > > How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions > independence? > The political issue here may be monopolization to the > extent of clouding out > other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory > steps in. > > We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' > attitude towards > cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments > with different > degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no > competition at all up > to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute > generously to a public > project in the absence of competition, whereas they > contribute very little > in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A > diminishing attitude > towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of > competition increases. > Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the > maximum degree of > competition may be not efficient. > >
< < http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
> 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb> > > react. > > > --- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai > < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote: > >> From: kevit desai > < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya >> To: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com >> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke, "'KICTAnet ICT > Policy Discussions'" > < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM >> Hi Waudo, >> >> As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other >> association to full >> membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful >> partnership. >> >> >> >> >> >> Kevit Desai >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: waudo siganga [mailto: <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com] >> Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 >> To: Kevit Desai >> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions' >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in Kenya >> >> >> >> Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when > handling >> KEPSA and KIF at >> the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to > promote >> KIF at the >> expense of other associations. The explanation is very >> simple: KEPSA was >> formed as a focal point, a bringing together > characterised >> by INCLUSIVITY. >> KIF on the other hand is an independent association > and the >> nature of such >> an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership >> mechanism). I would like >> to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA > ICT >> Board, not just >> KIF. Please give us space. >> >> Waudo >> >> >> >> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit > Desai" >> < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said: >> >> Hi Alex, >> >> >> >> KEPSA ( <mailto:info@kepsa.or.ke> info@kepsa.or.ke): private sector policy body > with >> its own governance >> structure. Elected as a director in private capacity > and as >> KIF vice >> chairman. >> >> >> >> KIF ( <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke): membership-based industry >> association, member >> of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. >> >> >> >> Centurion Systems Ltd: ( <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> ) >> private company, >> director, member of KIF. >> >> >> >> Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd >> >> Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section >> >> Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition >> >> Governor - KEPSA >> >> Director - KEPSA >> >> Director - Innovation Africa >> >> Director- Kenya ICT Board >> >> Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation >> >> BOA - AIESEC >> >> Member - National Strategy for University Education >> >> Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP > Kenya >> >> General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 >> >> >> >> 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, >> >>
Raphta Rd
>> >> , Westlands - Nairobi >> >> P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. >> >> Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 >> 2049750 >> >> Mobile : +254 722 517067 >> >> >> >> <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> >> >> <http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.ieee.org <http://www.ieee.org/> >> >> <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> >> >> <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> >> >> <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> http://www.kepsa.or.ke <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> >> >> <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> http://www.powerup.co.ke <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> >> >> <http://www.aiesec.org/> http://www.aiesec.org <http://www.aiesec.org/> >> >> <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.africon2007.co.za <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> >> >> <http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/> >> >> htpp:// <http://www.ict.go.ke/> www.ict.go.ke <http://www.ict.go.ke/> >> >> <http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.globalcompact.org <http://www.globalcompact.org/> >> >> <http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: waudo siganga [mailto: <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com] >> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM >> To: kevit desai >> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions' >> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in Kenya >> >> >> >> Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET > I can >> answer it on >> >> the same forum. I think the picture being painted > about a >> rosy situation >> >> including "collaboration" is simply not > true. The >> reason to be frank is >> >> that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other >> association to >> >> have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. > Could >> you as a >> >> KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations >> including the >> >> major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute > in >> KEPSA? It can be >> >> sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to > promote >> KIF and crack >> >> down on those you feel are in the way. >> >> Waudo >> >> >> >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit > desai" >> >> < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said: >> >>> Hi Walu, >> >>> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. > I >> would like to confirm >> >>> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We > would >> like to do a lot >> >>> more >> >>> and welcome more support. >> >>> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our > last >> ministerial stakeholder >> >>> forum. >> >>> Collaboration is the way forward. >> >>> >> >>> Kevit Desai >> >>> KEPSA Director >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: >> > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> >> >>> >> >
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of waudo siganga >> >>> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 >> >>> To: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com >> >>> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions >> >>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for >> e-Commerce in >> >>> Kenya >> >>> >> >>> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on > GPRS >> somewhere in the >> >>> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the > IT >> (or ICT) Profession >> >>> on this list a few months ago. But the rather >> unenthusiastic response I >> >>> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not > the >> correct list since >> >>> many of the subscribers appear just interested in > ICT >> Policy rather than >> >>> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two > weeks >> there will be another >> >>> list for professionals and you will be informed > (you >> have the >> >>> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing > for a >> registration board >> >>> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and >> Procurement >> >>> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on >> unheralded. All we need >> >>> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. >> >>> Waudo >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), > "John >> Walubengo" >> >>> < <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> jwalu@yahoo.com> said: >> >>>> Marcel, >> >>>> >> >>>> It looks like quite some work has been > ongoing in >> this >> >>>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was >> restricted within KIF only? >> I >> >>>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, > Waudo r >> u there?) or >> >>>> Information Security Audit & Control >> (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to >> >>>> mention some of the big IT Associations in > Kenya >> were involved. I beg to >> >>>> be enlightened. >> >>>> >> >>>> This brings in an old question - who really >> represents the IT Profession >> >>>> in Kenya ? Shem has been on record as saying > that >> IT is the only >> >>>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with > the >> same authority as LSK >> >>>> (Law Society of Kenya ), IEK (Institute of >> Engineers of Kenya ), Medical >> >>>> Practictioners Board amongst others to > regulate >> the IT Profession. >> >>>> >> >>>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the > bill >> either (and has a >> >>>> different objective anyway). But time has > come >> to really start thinking >> >>>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we >> struggle to regulate the >> >>>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead > on >> this, but they have been >> >>>> awfully quite except when they award prizes > at >> the end of the year >> (Waudo >> >>>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had > to >> say it!). >> >>>> >> >>>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective > particularly >> in the Manufacturing >> >>>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been > as >> effective - particularly >> >>>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the > IT >> industry has been 'cloudy' >> >>>> for lack of a better word...Can for example > CSK >> or ISACA be part of >> >>>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again > need to >> be enlightened. >> >>>> >> >>>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just > thinking >> loudly and saying that as >> >>>> we think of regulating electronic > transactions, >> we also need to >> >>>> simultaneously start regulating the IT >> profession..but maybe I am wrong. >> >>>> Particularly because regulation can and > often >> leads to suppression... >> >>>> >> >>>> walu. >> >>>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner >> < <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com> marcelcwerner@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> From: Marcel Werner >> < <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com> marcelcwerner@gmail.com> >> >>>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and >> Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya >> >>>>> To: <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> jwalu@yahoo.com >> >>>>> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke, > "KICTAnet >> ICT Policy Discussions" >> >>> < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >> >>>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM >> >>>>> Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in >> Kenya >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing > Note # >> 3 - Report - >> >>>>> Public Panel 19 >> >>>>> June 2008 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will > add >> at least one >> >>>>> percent point growth >> >>>>> to Kenya 's overall economic growth >> within five years. >> >>>>> This is contingent >> >>>>> upon the adoption of legislation that >> supports electronic >> >>>>> transactions. * Kenya , >> >>>>> as an emerging economy and regional > leader, >> lags behind in >> >>>>> having a legal >> >>>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The >> current situation is >> >>>>> an anachronism >> >>>>> hampering national development, placing >> provincial centres >> >>>>> at a >> >>>>> disadvantage, and harming global >> competitiveness. Both >> >>>>> external and internal >> >>>>> trade require the new framework.The > Kenyan >> private sector >> >>>>> strongly supports >> >>>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as >> legislation of the >> >>>>> Information and >> >>>>> Communication Technology sector that >> guarantees an open >> >>>>> market and promotes >> >>>>> innovation. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation >> supporting >> >>>>> electronic transactions >> >>>>> represents the single most powerful >> innovation opportunity >> >>>>> in the legal >> >>>>> framework of the ICT sector. > Legislation is >> needed to: >> >>>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by >> recognizing an >> >>>>> electronic signature >> >>>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r < KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
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Kevit I am still astounded at the veracity of this statement: ------- Why don't we all meet at the Jacaranda, land mark, Westlands at 5.00pm today. At the poolside. Informal discussion. I will be waiting. Kevit Desai ------ You think a discussion as important as this - a discussion I think goes to the core of who we as Kenyans can be discussed at a bar? Is this what you think of us? That after a few beers we will see things your way? Kevit - please wake up and smell the new Kenya. And the new Kenyans. Joe On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Tim Rick <timrick@gmail.com> wrote:
I would love to know how many of the people here met Kevit and the results.the discussion is just making me realise Kenyans have woken up after the Grand Saga.So Kevit?Any good discussions you had and way forward?
2008/7/13 <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke>:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya (kevit desai)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:37:11 +0300 From: "kevit desai" <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya To: <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Message-ID: <E1KHy1I-0008Rn-Cw@mail01.safaricom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Why don't we all meet at the Jacaranda, land mark, Westlands at 5.00pm today. At the poolside.
Informal discussion. I will be waiting.
Kevit Desai
_____
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of wesley kiriinya Sent: 13 July 2008 10:52 To: kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya
Gentlemen,
Before these so called foreigners got these positions that Kenyans would have occupied, what were Kenyans waiting for? (Honest question.)
If there is a higher appointing authority that picks these so called foreigners over Kenyans then it's them to blame (if there is a good reason).
That said, as much as free speech is appreciated, so is discretion. Sorry to say but it is embarrassing to read some of these posts.
Regards.
--- On Sun, 7/13/08, waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
From: waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 9:19 AM
Hi All - I am the one that asserted that Kenyan (ICT) associations should be run by Kenyans and I stand by that. It has absolutely nothing to do with racism. Every country has policies to protect its people. Even in the USA you can only stand for president if you were born American. Is that racism? Associations are at the heart of pushing for policy and it pains me to see foreigners jostling Kenyans out of the way and being the ones running up and down the Government corridors carrying "position papers".
I find it deplorable that Brian is using his position on the list to threaten to unsubscribe those who do not agree with his views and consign them to the Nyayo House dungeons. Brian you have been partisan on these issues throughout. You are issuing "apologies" to people you already sided with and they are quickly "accepting". At one time you were saying we visit KIF to see how they run meetings as though suggesting Kenyans do not know how to run meetings. Is this the Brian I knew or someone using your mail account? Tafadhali, wacha wananchi wasema hata kama uko pande ile ingine.
Waudo
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:52:02 +0300, "kevit desai" <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said:
Dear Brian,
Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman.
Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some off the very exciting things we are doing.
What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the success and contributions of some people. Kenya 's grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner , and others, they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICT's.
Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place.
Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us all to a common vision of ICT's for National development.
I am waiting..
Kevit Desai
_____
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe Sent: 12 July 2008 09:50 To: kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya
Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF,
I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue.
As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows.
I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya . I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum.
As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs.
I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month.
I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya , and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions.
Sincerely
Brian Munyao Longwe
Chairman, KICTANET
Sent from my iPhone
On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, " Marcel Werner " <marcelcwerner@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Kictanet membership,
The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies.
KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week).
Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable.
The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on <http://www.kictanet.or.ke/> http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance - I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members".
We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house.
We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense.
Best regards, Marcel Werner , chairman of KIF :)
2008/7/11 kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>:
Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false.
It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation.
For now I close my participation.
Kevit Desai
-----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto: <mailto:alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24
To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit;
KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR?
Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?.
regards,
On 7/11/08, kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004,
2005,
2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd
, Westlands - Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile : +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/>
<http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.ieee.org <http://www.ieee.org/>
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/>
<http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net
<http://www.innovation-africa.net/>
<http://www.aiesec.org/> http://www.aiesec.org <http://www.aiesec.org/
<http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.africon2007.co.za
<http://www.africon2007.co.za/>
<http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/>
<http://www.ict.go.ke/> www.ict.go.ke <http://www.ict.go.ke/>
<http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.globalcompact.org
<http://www.globalcompact.org/>
<http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com
<http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo < <mailto:skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com <http://gmail.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo <kictanet-bounces%2Bskisonzo>= gmail.com <http://gmail.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> ] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: <mailto:skisonzo@gmail.com> skisonzo@gmail.com
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga < <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> ] the
front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" < <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" < <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" < <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru < <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Kevit: > > I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you > further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told > Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now > appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of > "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong > but he could clarify. > > On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry > Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market > the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see > announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies > Act > ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I > found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and > OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella? > > On the links you sent onlist: > > <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> www.innovation-africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> > > Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET < http://innovation-africa.net/> > Registrar: TUCOWS INC. > Whois Server: whois.tucows.com <http://whois.tucows.com/> > Referral URL: <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/> http://domainhelp.opensrs.net <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/> > Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET <http://ultra103.uk2.net/> > Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET <http://ultra104.uk2.net/> > Status: redemptionPeriod > Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 > Creation Date: 14-may-2007 > Expiration Date: 14-may-2008 > > I tried <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> www.innovation-africa.co.ke <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> >> was re-directing to >> <http://www.kif.or.ke/> www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/> > ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion > Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct? > > What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background > when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how > representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in > trying to understand new and old associations' motives. > > With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy > participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement > involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs > abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens. > > > Alex > > > --- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> > wrote: > >> From: kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> >> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce >> in Kenya >> To: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com >> Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM >> Hi Alex, >> >> I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can. >> >> Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and >> market segment >> associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence : >> KEPSA decisions >> are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from >> the private >> sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for >> membership in KEPSA, neither >> are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows >> the same approach >> for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and >> government agencies are >> member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR >> BASIS with all >> those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no >> obligation to >> offer service to non members. >> >> Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam >> Mwaura of KEPSA or >> Marcel Werner of KIF. >> >> >> Kevit >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alex Gakuru [mailto: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com] >> Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 >> To: kevit desai >> Cc: kictanet-lists >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in Kenya >> >> Kevit, >> >> >> How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions >> independence? >> The political issue here may be monopolization to the >> extent of clouding out >> other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory >> steps in. >> >> We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' >> attitude towards >> cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments >> with different >> degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no >> competition at all up >> to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute >> generously to a public >> project in the absence of competition, whereas they >> contribute very little >> in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A >> diminishing attitude >> towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of >> competition increases. >> Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the >> maximum degree of >> competition may be not efficient. >> >>
< < http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
>> 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb> >> >> react. >> >> >> --- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai >> < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote: >> >>> From: kevit desai >> < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> >>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in Kenya >>> To: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com >>> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke, "'KICTAnet ICT >> Policy Discussions'" >> < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM >>> Hi Waudo, >>> >>> As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other >>> association to full >>> membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful >>> partnership. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Kevit Desai >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> From: waudo siganga [mailto: <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com] >>> Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 >>> To: Kevit Desai >>> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy >>> Discussions' >>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >>> e-Commerce in Kenya >>> >>> >>> >>> Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when >> handling >>> KEPSA and KIF at >>> the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to >> promote >>> KIF at the >>> expense of other associations. The explanation is very >>> simple: KEPSA was >>> formed as a focal point, a bringing together >> characterised >>> by INCLUSIVITY. >>> KIF on the other hand is an independent association >> and the >>> nature of such >>> an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership >>> mechanism). I would like >>> to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA >> ICT >>> Board, not just >>> KIF. Please give us space. >>> >>> Waudo >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit >> Desai" >>> < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said: >>> >>> Hi Alex, >>> >>> >>> >>> KEPSA ( <mailto:info@kepsa.or.ke> info@kepsa.or.ke): private sector policy body >> with >>> its own governance >>> structure. Elected as a director in private capacity >> and as >>> KIF vice >>> chairman. >>> >>> >>> >>> KIF ( <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke): membership-based industry >>> association, member >>> of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. >>> >>> >>> >>> Centurion Systems Ltd: ( <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> ) >>> private company, >>> director, member of KIF. >>> >>> >>> >>> Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd >>> >>> Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section >>> >>> Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition >>> >>> Governor - KEPSA >>> >>> Director - KEPSA >>> >>> Director - Innovation Africa >>> >>> Director- Kenya ICT Board >>> >>> Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation >>> >>> BOA - AIESEC >>> >>> Member - National Strategy for University Education >>> >>> Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP >> Kenya >>> >>> General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 >>> >>> >>> >>> 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, >>> >>>
Raphta Rd
>>> >>> , Westlands - Nairobi >>> >>> P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. >>> >>> Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 >>> 2049750 >>> >>> Mobile : +254 722 517067 >>> >>> >>> >>> <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> >>> >>> <http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.ieee.org <http://www.ieee.org/> >>> >>> <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> >>> >>> <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> >>> >>> <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> http://www.kepsa.or.ke <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> >>> >>> <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> http://www.powerup.co.ke <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> >>> >>> <http://www.aiesec.org/> http://www.aiesec.org <http://www.aiesec.org/> >>> >>> <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.africon2007.co.za <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> >>> >>> <http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/> >>> >>> htpp:// <http://www.ict.go.ke/> www.ict.go.ke <http://www.ict.go.ke/> >>> >>> <http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.globalcompact.org <http://www.globalcompact.org/> >>> >>> <http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: waudo siganga [mailto: <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com] >>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM >>> To: kevit desai >>> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy >>> Discussions' >>> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >>> e-Commerce in Kenya >>> >>> >>> >>> Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET >> I can >>> answer it on >>> >>> the same forum. I think the picture being painted >> about a >>> rosy situation >>> >>> including "collaboration" is simply not >> true. The >>> reason to be frank is >>> >>> that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other >>> association to >>> >>> have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. >> Could >>> you as a >>> >>> KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations >>> including the >>> >>> major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute >> in >>> KEPSA? It can be >>> >>> sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to >> promote >>> KIF and crack >>> >>> down on those you feel are in the way. >>> >>> Waudo >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit >> desai" >>> >>> < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said: >>> >>>> Hi Walu, >>> >>>> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. >> I >>> would like to confirm >>> >>>> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We >> would >>> like to do a lot >>> >>>> more >>> >>>> and welcome more support. >>> >>>> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our >> last >>> ministerial stakeholder >>> >>>> forum. >>> >>>> Collaboration is the way forward. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Kevit Desai >>> >>>> KEPSA Director >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>>> From: >>> >> kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> >>> >>>> >>> >>
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>= centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
>> ] >>> >>>> On Behalf Of waudo siganga >>> >>>> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 >>> >>>> To: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com >>> >>>> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy >>> Discussions >>> >>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and >> Regulation for >>> e-Commerce in >>> >>>> Kenya >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on >> GPRS >>> somewhere in the >>> >>>> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the >> IT >>> (or ICT) Profession >>> >>>> on this list a few months ago. But the rather >>> unenthusiastic response I >>> >>>> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not >> the >>> correct list since >>> >>>> many of the subscribers appear just interested in >> ICT >>> Policy rather than >>> >>>> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two >> weeks >>> there will be another >>> >>>> list for professionals and you will be informed >> (you >>> have the >>> >>>> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing >> for a >>> registration board >>> >>>> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and >>> Procurement >>> >>>> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on >>> unheralded. All we need >>> >>>> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. >>> >>>> Waudo >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), >> "John >>> Walubengo" >>> >>>> < <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> jwalu@yahoo.com> said: >>> >>>>> Marcel, >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> It looks like quite some work has been >> ongoing in >>> this >>> >>>>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was >>> restricted within KIF only? >>> I >>> >>>>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, >> Waudo r >>> u there?) or >>> >>>>> Information Security Audit & Control >>> (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to >>> >>>>> mention some of the big IT Associations in >> Kenya >>> were involved. I beg to >>> >>>>> be enlightened. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> This brings in an old question - who really >>> represents the IT Profession >>> >>>>> in Kenya ? Shem has been on record as saying >> that >>> IT is the only >>> >>>>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with >> the >>> same authority as LSK >>> >>>>> (Law Society of Kenya ), IEK (Institute of >>> Engineers of Kenya ), Medical >>> >>>>> Practictioners Board amongst others to >> regulate >>> the IT Profession. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the >> bill >>> either (and has a >>> >>>>> different objective anyway). But time has >> come >>> to really start thinking >>> >>>>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we >>> struggle to regulate the >>> >>>>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead >> on >>> this, but they have been >>> >>>>> awfully quite except when they award prizes >> at >>> the end of the year >>> (Waudo >>> >>>>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had >> to >>> say it!). >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective >> particularly >>> in the Manufacturing >>> >>>>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been >> as >>> effective - particularly >>> >>>>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the >> IT >>> industry has been 'cloudy' >>> >>>>> for lack of a better word...Can for example >> CSK >>> or ISACA be part of >>> >>>>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again >> need to >>> be enlightened. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just >> thinking >>> loudly and saying that as >>> >>>>> we think of regulating electronic >> transactions, >>> we also need to >>> >>>>> simultaneously start regulating the IT >>> profession..but maybe I am wrong. >>> >>>>> Particularly because regulation can and >> often >>> leads to suppression... >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> walu. >>> >>>>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner >>> < <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com> marcelcwerner@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>> From: Marcel Werner >>> < <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com> marcelcwerner@gmail.com> >>> >>>>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and >>> Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya >>> >>>>>> To: <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> jwalu@yahoo.com >>> >>>>>> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke, >> "KICTAnet >>> ICT Policy Discussions" >>> >>>> < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>> >>>>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM >>> >>>>>> Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in >>> Kenya >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing >> Note # >>> 3 - Report - >>> >>>>>> Public Panel 19 >>> >>>>>> June 2008 >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will >> add >>> at least one >>> >>>>>> percent point growth >>> >>>>>> to Kenya 's overall economic growth >>> within five years. >>> >>>>>> This is contingent >>> >>>>>> upon the adoption of legislation that >>> supports electronic >>> >>>>>> transactions. * Kenya , >>> >>>>>> as an emerging economy and regional >> leader, >>> lags behind in >>> >>>>>> having a legal >>> >>>>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The >>> current situation is >>> >>>>>> an anachronism >>> >>>>>> hampering national development, placing >>> provincial centres >>> >>>>>> at a >>> >>>>>> disadvantage, and harming global >>> competitiveness. Both >>> >>>>>> external and internal >>> >>>>>> trade require the new framework.The >> Kenyan >>> private sector >>> >>>>>> strongly supports >>> >>>>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as >>> legislation of the >>> >>>>>> Information and >>> >>>>>> Communication Technology sector that >>> guarantees an open >>> >>>>>> market and promotes >>> >>>>>> innovation. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation >>> supporting >>> >>>>>> electronic transactions >>> >>>>>> represents the single most powerful >>> innovation opportunity >>> >>>>>> in the legal >>> >>>>>> framework of the ICT sector. >> Legislation is >>> needed to: >>> >>>>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by >>> recognizing an >>> >>>>>> electronic signature >>> >>>>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r > < KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc> > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at < http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe@gmail.com> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe@gmail.com>
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I met Kevit yester evening. Purely by mistake as I wasnt aware of his e-invite. Nevertheless we h a good chat and basically agreed on the importance of having a public forum where different ICT bodies could introduce themselves and their governance structures. It would also be a good opportunity to gauge the relevance/value/purpose of the different bodies. My brief.... Brian Sent from my iPhone On 13 Jul 2008, at 9:59 PM, "Tim Rick" <timrick@gmail.com> wrote:
I would love to know how many of the people here met Kevit and the results.the discussion is just making me realise Kenyans have woken up after the Grand Saga.So Kevit?Any good discussions you had and way forward?
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya (kevit desai)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:37:11 +0300 From: "kevit desai" <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya To: <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Message-ID: <E1KHy1I-0008Rn-Cw@mail01.safaricom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Why don't we all meet at the Jacaranda, land mark, Westlands at 5.00pm today. At the poolside.
Informal discussion. I will be waiting.
Kevit Desai
_____
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke ] On Behalf Of wesley kiriinya Sent: 13 July 2008 10:52 To: kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya
Gentlemen,
Before these so called foreigners got these positions that Kenyans would have occupied, what were Kenyans waiting for? (Honest question.)
If there is a higher appointing authority that picks these so called foreigners over Kenyans then it's them to blame (if there is a good reason).
That said, as much as free speech is appreciated, so is discretion. Sorry to say but it is embarrassing to read some of these posts.
Regards.
--- On Sun, 7/13/08, waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
From: waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 9:19 AM
Hi All - I am the one that asserted that Kenyan (ICT) associations should be run by Kenyans and I stand by that. It has absolutely nothing to do with racism. Every country has policies to protect its people. Even in the USA you can only stand for president if you were born American. Is that racism? Associations are at the heart of pushing for policy and it pains me to see foreigners jostling Kenyans out of the way and being the ones running up and down the Government corridors carrying "position papers".
I find it deplorable that Brian is using his position on the list to threaten to unsubscribe those who do not agree with his views and consign them to the Nyayo House dungeons. Brian you have been partisan on these issues throughout. You are issuing "apologies" to people you already sided with and they are quickly "accepting". At one time you were saying we visit KIF to see how they run meetings as though suggesting Kenyans do not know how to run meetings. Is this the Brian I knew or someone using your mail account? Tafadhali, wacha wananchi wasema hata kama uko pande ile ingine.
Waudo
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:52:02 +0300, "kevit desai" <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said:
Dear Brian,
Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman.
Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some off the very exciting things we are doing.
What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the success and contributions of some people. Kenya 's grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner , and others, they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICT's.
Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place.
Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us all to a common vision of ICT's for National development.
I am waiting..
Kevit Desai
_____
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke ] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe Sent: 12 July 2008 09:50 To: kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya
Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF,
I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue.
As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows.
I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya . I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum.
As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs.
I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month.
I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya , and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions.
Sincerely
Brian Munyao Longwe
Chairman, KICTANET
Sent from my iPhone
On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, " Marcel Werner " <marcelcwerner@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello Kictanet membership,
The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies.
KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week).
Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable.
The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on <http://www.kictanet.or.ke/> http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance - I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members".
We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house.
We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense.
Best regards, Marcel Werner , chairman of KIF :)
2008/7/11 kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>:
Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false.
It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation.
For now I close my participation.
Kevit Desai
-----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto: <mailto:alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24
To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit;
KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR?
Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?.
regards,
On 7/11/08, kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral
discussions
private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004, 2005, 2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd
, Westlands - Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile : +254 722 517067
<http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
<http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/>
<http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.ieee.org <http://www.ieee.org/>
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/>
africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/>
<http://www.aiesec.org/> http://www.aiesec.org <http://www.aiesec.org/
<http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.africon2007.co.za
<http://www.africon2007.co.za/>
<http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke <http://
www.kif.or.ke/>
<http://www.ict.go.ke/> www.ict.go.ke <http://www.ict.go.ke/>
<http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.globalcompact.org
<http://www.globalcompact.org/>
<http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com
<http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo < <mailto:skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com <http://gmail.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com <http://gmail.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> ] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: <mailto:skisonzo@gmail.com> skisonzo@gmail.com
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga < <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella
actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" < <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" < <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being
ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that
KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" < <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru < <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
<http://www.innovation-africa.net/> www.innovation- africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/>
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET <http://innovation-africa.net/
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I tried <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> www.innovation-africa.co.ke <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> was re-directing to >> <http://www.kif.or.ke/> www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/> ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public
participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> ] body was the KEPSA the policy procurement
involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com
wrote:
> From: kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e- Commerce > in Kenya > To: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com > Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM > Hi Alex, > > I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can. > > Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and > market segment > associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence : > KEPSA decisions > are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from > the private > sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for > membership in KEPSA, neither > are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows > the same approach > for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and > government agencies are > member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR > BASIS with all > those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no > obligation to > offer service to non members. > > Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam > Mwaura of KEPSA or > Marcel Werner of KIF. > > > Kevit > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Gakuru [mailto: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com] > Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 > To: kevit desai > Cc: kictanet-lists > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > Kevit, > > > How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions > independence? > The political issue here may be monopolization to the > extent of clouding out > other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory > steps in. > > We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' > attitude towards > cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments > with different > degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no > competition at all up > to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute > generously to a public > project in the absence of competition, whereas they > contribute very little > in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A > diminishing attitude > towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of > competition increases. > Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the > maximum degree of > competition may be not efficient. > >
< <http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
> 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb> > > react. > > > --- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai > < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote: > >> From: kevit desai > < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya >> To: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com >> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke, "'KICTAnet ICT > Policy Discussions'" > < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM >> Hi Waudo, >> >> As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other >> association to full >> membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful >> partnership. >> >> >> >> >> >> Kevit Desai >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: waudo siganga [mailto: <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com] >> Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 >> To: Kevit Desai >> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions' >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in Kenya >> >> >> >> Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when > handling >> KEPSA and KIF at >> the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to > promote >> KIF at the >> expense of other associations. The explanation is very >> simple: KEPSA was >> formed as a focal point, a bringing together > characterised >> by INCLUSIVITY. >> KIF on the other hand is an independent association > and the >> nature of such >> an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership >> mechanism). I would like >> to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA > ICT >> Board, not just >> KIF. Please give us space. >> >> Waudo >> >> >> >> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit > Desai" >> < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said: >> >> Hi Alex, >> >> >> >> KEPSA ( <mailto:info@kepsa.or.ke> info@kepsa.or.ke):
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba private sector policy body
> with >> its own governance >> structure. Elected as a director in private capacity > and as >> KIF vice >> chairman. >> >> >> >> KIF ( <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke): membership-based industry >> association, member >> of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. >> >> >> >> Centurion Systems Ltd: ( <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/
www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> )
>> private company, >> director, member of KIF. >> >> >> >> Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd >> >> Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section >> >> Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition >> >> Governor - KEPSA >> >> Director - KEPSA >> >> Director - Innovation Africa >> >> Director- Kenya ICT Board >> >> Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation >> >> BOA - AIESEC >> >> Member - National Strategy for University Education >> >> Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP > Kenya >> >> General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 >> >> >> >> 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, >> >>
Raphta Rd
>> >> , Westlands - Nairobi >> >> P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. >> >> Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 >> 2049750 >> >> Mobile : +254 722 517067 >> >> >> >> <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/
>> >> <http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.ieee.org <http://www.ieee.org/> >> >> <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> >> >> <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> >> >> <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> http://www.kepsa.or.ke <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> >> >> <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> http://www.powerup.co.ke <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> >> >> <http://www.aiesec.org/> http://www.aiesec.org <http://www.aiesec.org/> >> >> <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.africon2007.co.za <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> >> >> <http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/> >> >> htpp:// <http://www.ict.go.ke/> www.ict.go.ke <http://www.ict.go.ke/> >> >> <http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.globalcompact.org <http://www.globalcompact.org/> >> >> <http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: waudo siganga [mailto: <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com] >> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM >> To: kevit desai >> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions' >> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for >> e-Commerce in Kenya >> >> >> >> Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET > I can >> answer it on >> >> the same forum. I think the picture being painted > about a >> rosy situation >> >> including "collaboration" is simply not > true. The >> reason to be frank is >> >> that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other >> association to >> >> have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. > Could >> you as a >> >> KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations >> including the >> >> major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute > in >> KEPSA? It can be >> >> sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to > promote >> KIF and crack >> >> down on those you feel are in the way. >> >> Waudo >> >> >> >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit > desai" >> >> < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said: >> >>> Hi Walu, >> >>> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. > I >> would like to confirm >> >>> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We > would >> like to do a lot >> >>> more >> >>> and welcome more support. >> >>> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our > last >> ministerial stakeholder >> >>> forum. >> >>> Collaboration is the way forward. >> >>> >> >>> Kevit Desai >> >>> KEPSA Director >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: >> > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> >> >>> >> >
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of waudo siganga >> >>> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 >> >>> To: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com >> >>> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy >> Discussions >> >>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for >> e-Commerce in >> >>> Kenya >> >>> >> >>> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on > GPRS >> somewhere in the >> >>> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the > IT >> (or ICT) Profession >> >>> on this list a few months ago. But the rather >> unenthusiastic response I >> >>> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not > the >> correct list since >> >>> many of the subscribers appear just interested in > ICT >> Policy rather than >> >>> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two > weeks >> there will be another >> >>> list for professionals and you will be informed > (you >> have the >> >>> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing > for a >> registration board >> >>> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and >> Procurement >> >>> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on >> unheralded. All we need >> >>> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. >> >>> Waudo >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), > "John >> Walubengo" >> >>> < <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> jwalu@yahoo.com> said: >> >>>> Marcel, >> >>>> >> >>>> It looks like quite some work has been > ongoing in >> this >> >>>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was >> restricted within KIF only? >> I >> >>>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, > Waudo r >> u there?) or >> >>>> Information Security Audit & Control >> (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to >> >>>> mention some of the big IT Associations in > Kenya >> were involved. I beg to >> >>>> be enlightened. >> >>>> >> >>>> This brings in an old question - who really >> represents the IT Profession >> >>>> in Kenya ? Shem has been on record as saying > that >> IT is the only >> >>>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with > the >> same authority as LSK >> >>>> (Law Society of Kenya ), IEK (Institute of >> Engineers of Kenya ), Medical >> >>>> Practictioners Board amongst others to > regulate >> the IT Profession. >> >>>> >> >>>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the > bill >> either (and has a >> >>>> different objective anyway). But time has > come >> to really start thinking >> >>>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we >> struggle to regulate the >> >>>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead > on >> this, but they have been >> >>>> awfully quite except when they award prizes > at >> the end of the year >> (Waudo >> >>>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had > to >> say it!). >> >>>> >> >>>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective > particularly >> in the Manufacturing >> >>>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been > as >> effective - particularly >> >>>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the > IT >> industry has been 'cloudy' >> >>>> for lack of a better word...Can for example > CSK >> or ISACA be part of >> >>>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again > need to >> be enlightened. >> >>>> >> >>>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just > thinking >> loudly and saying that as >> >>>> we think of regulating electronic > transactions, >> we also need to >> >>>> simultaneously start regulating the IT >> profession..but maybe I am wrong. >> >>>> Particularly because regulation can and > often >> leads to suppression... >> >>>> >> >>>> walu. >> >>>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner >> < <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com> marcelcwerner@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> From: Marcel Werner >> < <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com> marcelcwerner@gmail.com> >> >>>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and >> Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya >> >>>>> To: <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> jwalu@yahoo.com >> >>>>> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke , > "KICTAnet >> ICT Policy Discussions" >> >>> < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >> >>>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM >> >>>>> Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in >> Kenya >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing > Note # >> 3 - Report - >> >>>>> Public Panel 19 >> >>>>> June 2008 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will > add >> at least one >> >>>>> percent point growth >> >>>>> to Kenya 's overall economic growth >> within five years. >> >>>>> This is contingent >> >>>>> upon the adoption of legislation that >> supports electronic >> >>>>> transactions. * Kenya , >> >>>>> as an emerging economy and regional > leader, >> lags behind in >> >>>>> having a legal >> >>>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The >> current situation is >> >>>>> an anachronism >> >>>>> hampering national development, placing >> provincial centres >> >>>>> at a >> >>>>> disadvantage, and harming global >> competitiveness. Both >> >>>>> external and internal >> >>>>> trade require the new framework.The > Kenyan >> private sector >> >>>>> strongly supports >> >>>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as >> legislation of the >> >>>>> Information and >> >>>>> Communication Technology sector that >> guarantees an open >> >>>>> market and promotes >> >>>>> innovation. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation >> supporting >> >>>>> electronic transactions >> >>>>> represents the single most powerful >> innovation opportunity >> >>>>> in the legal >> >>>>> framework of the ICT sector. > Legislation is >> needed to: >> >>>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by >> recognizing an >> >>>>> electronic signature >> >>>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r < KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
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Hi Tim, No one turned up. I waited until 6 pm. Joseph, There are meeting rooms as part off the poolside. The ICT fraternity including Kictanet use them occasionally. I did not mention bars or alcoholic drinks. Brian and I also concluded that we have to protect the reputation of the progress we are making as Nation towards embracing ICT's, especially our vision to make Kenya a top ten ICT hub. This is in a global context. Bill I want to assure you that KIF holds elections. Next one is towards the end of the year. I will inform Marcel to post the information on Kictanet. Kevit Desai _____ From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe Sent: 14 July 2008 07:23 To: kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Discipline & Ethics I met Kevit yester evening. Purely by mistake as I wasnt aware of his e-invite. Nevertheless we h a good chat and basically agreed on the importance of having a public forum where different ICT bodies could introduce themselves and their governance structures. It would also be a good opportunity to gauge the relevance/value/purpose of the different bodies. My brief.... Brian Sent from my iPhone On 13 Jul 2008, at 9:59 PM, "Tim Rick" <timrick@gmail.com> wrote: I would love to know how many of the people here met Kevit and the results.the discussion is just making me realise Kenyans have woken up after the Grand Saga.So Kevit?Any good discussions you had and way forward? 2008/7/13 < <mailto:kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke>: Send kictanet mailing list submissions to <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to <mailto:kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke You can reach the person managing the list at <mailto:kictanet-owner@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet-owner@lists.kictanet.or.ke When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya (kevit desai) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:37:11 +0300 From: "kevit desai" < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya To: < <mailto:kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Message-ID: < <mailto:E1KHy1I-0008Rn-Cw@mail01.safaricom.com> E1KHy1I-0008Rn-Cw@mail01.safaricom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Why don't we all meet at the Jacaranda, land mark, Westlands at 5.00pm today. At the poolside. Informal discussion. I will be waiting. Kevit Desai _____ From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit> =centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of wesley kiriinya Sent: 13 July 2008 10:52 To: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya Gentlemen, Before these so called foreigners got these positions that Kenyans would have occupied, what were Kenyans waiting for? (Honest question.) If there is a higher appointing authority that picks these so called foreigners over Kenyans then it's them to blame (if there is a good reason). That said, as much as free speech is appreciated, so is discretion. Sorry to say but it is embarrassing to read some of these posts. Regards. --- On Sun, 7/13/08, waudo siganga < <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote: From: waudo siganga < <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya To: <mailto:kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 9:19 AM Hi All - I am the one that asserted that Kenyan (ICT) associations should be run by Kenyans and I stand by that. It has absolutely nothing to do with racism. Every country has policies to protect its people. Even in the USA you can only stand for president if you were born American. Is that racism? Associations are at the heart of pushing for policy and it pains me to see foreigners jostling Kenyans out of the way and being the ones running up and down the Government corridors carrying "position papers". I find it deplorable that Brian is using his position on the list to threaten to unsubscribe those who do not agree with his views and consign them to the Nyayo House dungeons. Brian you have been partisan on these issues throughout. You are issuing "apologies" to people you already sided with and they are quickly "accepting". At one time you were saying we visit KIF to see how they run meetings as though suggesting Kenyans do not know how to run meetings. Is this the Brian I knew or someone using your mail account? Tafadhali, wacha wananchi wasema hata kama uko pande ile ingine. Waudo On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:52:02 +0300, "kevit desai" < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said: Dear Brian, Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman. Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some off the very exciting things we are doing. What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the success and contributions of some people. Kenya 's grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner , and others, they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICT's. Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place. Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us all to a common vision of ICT's for National development. I am waiting.. Kevit Desai _____ From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit> =centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe Sent: 12 July 2008 09:50 To: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF, I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue. As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows. I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya . I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum. As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs. I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month. I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya , and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions. Sincerely Brian Munyao Longwe Chairman, KICTANET Sent from my iPhone On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, " Marcel Werner " < <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com> marcelcwerner@gmail.com> wrote: Hello Kictanet membership, The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies. KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week). Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable. The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on < <http://www.kictanet.or.ke/> http://www.kictanet.or.ke/> <http://www.kictanet.or.ke/> http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance - I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members". We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house. We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense. Best regards, Marcel Werner , chairman of KIF :) 2008/7/11 kevit desai < <mailto: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>: Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false. It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation. For now I close my participation. Kevit Desai -----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto: <mailto: <mailto:alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> <mailto:alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Kevit; KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR? Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?. regards, On 7/11/08, kevit desai < <mailto: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004,
2005,
2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd , Westlands - Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile : +254 722 517067
http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com < <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/>
< <http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.ieee.org/> <http://www.ieee.org>
http://www.ieee.org < <http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.ieee.org/>
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke < <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/>
< <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net/>
<http://www.innovation-africa.net> http://www.innovation-africa.net < <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net/>
<http://www.kepsa.or.ke> http://www.kepsa.or.ke < <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> http://www.kepsa.or.ke/>
<http://www.powerup.co.ke> http://www.powerup.co.ke < <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> http://www.powerup.co.ke/>
<http://www.aiesec.org> http://www.aiesec.org < <http://www.aiesec.org/> http://www.aiesec.org/>
< <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.africon2007.co.za/>
<http://www.africon2007.co.za> http://www.africon2007.co.za < <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.africon2007.co.za/>
< <http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke/> <http://www.kif.or.ke>
http://www.kif.or.ke < <http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke/>
< <http://www.ict.go.ke/> http://www.ict.go.ke/> <http://www.ict.go.ke>
www.ict.go.ke < <http://www.ict.go.ke/> http://www.ict.go.ke/>
< <http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.globalcompact.org/>
<http://www.globalcompact.org> http://www.globalcompact.org < <http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.globalcompact.org/>
< <http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb>
<http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com
< <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke < <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit> =centurionsystemsltd.com < <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke < <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> ]
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: <mailto: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo < <mailto: <mailto:skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> <mailto:skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com < <http://gmail.com/> http://gmail.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke < <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bskisonzo> =gmail.com < <http://gmail.com/> http://gmail.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke < <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> ] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: <mailto: <mailto:skisonzo@gmail.com> skisonzo@gmail.com> <mailto:skisonzo@gmail.com> skisonzo@gmail.com
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga < <mailto: <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com> <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" < <mailto: <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com> <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" < <mailto: <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com> <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" < <mailto: <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com> <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru < <mailto: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
< <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net/> <http://www.innovation-africa.net> www.innovation-africa.net < <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net/>
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET < <http://innovation-africa.net/> http://innovation-africa.net/> Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com < <http://whois.tucows.com/> http://whois.tucows.com/> Referral URL: < <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/> http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/> <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net> http://domainhelp.opensrs.net < <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/> http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/> Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET < <http://ultra103.uk2.net/> http://ultra103.uk2.net/> Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET < <http://ultra104.uk2.net/> http://ultra104.uk2.net/> Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried < <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke> www.innovation-africa.co.ke < <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> was re-directing to >> < <http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke/> <http://www.kif.or.ke> www.kif.or.ke < <http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke/> ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai < <mailto: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:
From: kevit desai < <mailto: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: <mailto: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" < <mailto: <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence : KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto: <mailto: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
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http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai < <mailto: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:
> From: kevit desai < <mailto: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > To: <mailto: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com > Cc: <mailto: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke> <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke, "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" < <mailto: <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM > Hi Waudo, > > As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > association to full > membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful > partnership. > > > > > > Kevit Desai > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: waudo siganga [mailto: <mailto: <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com> <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com] > Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 > To: Kevit Desai > Cc: <mailto: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke> <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling > KEPSA and KIF at > the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote > KIF at the > expense of other associations. The explanation is very > simple: KEPSA was > formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised > by INCLUSIVITY. > KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the > nature of such > an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership > mechanism). I would like > to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT > Board, not just > KIF. Please give us space. > > Waudo > > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" > < <mailto: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said: > > Hi Alex, > > > > KEPSA ( <mailto: <mailto:info@kepsa.or.ke> info@kepsa.or.ke> <mailto:info@kepsa.or.ke> info@kepsa.or.ke): private sector policy body with > its own governance > structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as > KIF vice > chairman. > > > > KIF ( <mailto: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke> <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke): membership-based industry > association, member > of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. > > > > Centurion Systems Ltd: ( < <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com> www.centurionsystemsltd.com < <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> ) > private company, > director, member of KIF. > > > > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd > > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section > > Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition > > Governor - KEPSA > > Director - KEPSA > > Director - Innovation Africa > > Director- Kenya ICT Board > > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation > > BOA - AIESEC > > Member - National Strategy for University Education > > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya > > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 > > > > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, > >
Raphta Rd
> > , Westlands - Nairobi > > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. > > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 > 2049750 > > Mobile : +254 722 517067 > > > > < <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com < <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> > > < <http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.ieee.org/> <http://www.ieee.org> http://www.ieee.org < <http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.ieee.org/> > > < <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke < <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> > > < <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net/> <http://www.innovation-africa.net> http://www.innovation-africa.net < <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net/> > > < <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> <http://www.kepsa.or.ke> http://www.kepsa.or.ke < <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> > > < <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> http://www.powerup.co.ke/> <http://www.powerup.co.ke> http://www.powerup.co.ke < <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> http://www.powerup.co.ke/> > > < <http://www.aiesec.org/> http://www.aiesec.org/> <http://www.aiesec.org> http://www.aiesec.org < <http://www.aiesec.org/> http://www.aiesec.org/> > > < <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.africon2007.co.za/> <http://www.africon2007.co.za> http://www.africon2007.co.za < <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.africon2007.co.za/> > > < <http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke/> <http://www.kif.or.ke> http://www.kif.or.ke < <http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke/> > > htpp:// < <http://www.ict.go.ke/> http://www.ict.go.ke/> <http://www.ict.go.ke> www.ict.go.ke < <http://www.ict.go.ke/> http://www.ict.go.ke/> > > < <http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.globalcompact.org/> <http://www.globalcompact.org> http://www.globalcompact.org < <http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.globalcompact.org/> > > < <http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> <http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: waudo siganga [mailto: <mailto: <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com> <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com] > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM > To: kevit desai > Cc: <mailto: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke> <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can > answer it on > > the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a > rosy situation > > including "collaboration" is simply not true. The > reason to be frank is > > that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other > association to > > have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could > you as a > > KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations > including the > > major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in > KEPSA? It can be > > sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote > KIF and crack > > down on those you feel are in the way. > > Waudo > > > > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai" > > < <mailto: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said: > >> Hi Walu, > >> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I > would like to confirm > >> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would > like to do a lot > >> more > >> and welcome more support. > >> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last > ministerial stakeholder > >> forum. > >> Collaboration is the way forward. > >> > >> Kevit Desai > >> KEPSA Director > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: >
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com < <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke < <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
> >> >
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit> =centurionsystemsltd.com < <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke < <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
] > >> On Behalf Of waudo siganga > >> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 > >> To: <mailto: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com > >> Cc: <mailto: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke> <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions > >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in > >> Kenya > >> > >> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS > somewhere in the > >> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT > (or ICT) Profession > >> on this list a few months ago. But the rather > unenthusiastic response I > >> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not the > correct list since > >> many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT > Policy rather than > >> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks > there will be another > >> list for professionals and you will be informed (you > have the > >> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a > registration board > >> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and > Procurement > >> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on > unheralded. All we need > >> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. > >> Waudo > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John > Walubengo" > >> < <mailto: <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> jwalu@yahoo.com> <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> jwalu@yahoo.com> said: > >>> Marcel, > >>> > >>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in > this > >>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was > restricted within KIF only? > I > >>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r > u there?) or > >>> Information Security Audit & Control > (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to > >>> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya > were involved. I beg to > >>> be enlightened. > >>> > >>> This brings in an old question - who really > represents the IT Profession > >>> in Kenya ? Shem has been on record as saying that > IT is the only > >>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with the > same authority as LSK > >>> (Law Society of Kenya ), IEK (Institute of > Engineers of Kenya ), Medical > >>> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate > the IT Profession. > >>> > >>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill > either (and has a > >>> different objective anyway). But time has come > to really start thinking > >>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we > struggle to regulate the > >>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on > this, but they have been > >>> awfully quite except when they award prizes at > the end of the year > (Waudo > >>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to > say it!). > >>> > >>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective particularly > in the Manufacturing > >>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as > effective - particularly > >>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT > industry has been 'cloudy' > >>> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK > or ISACA be part of > >>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to > be enlightened. > >>> > >>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just thinking > loudly and saying that as > >>> we think of regulating electronic transactions, > we also need to > >>> simultaneously start regulating the IT > profession..but maybe I am wrong. > >>> Particularly because regulation can and often > leads to suppression... > >>> > >>> walu. > >>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner > < <mailto: <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com> marcelcwerner@gmail.com> <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com> marcelcwerner@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Marcel Werner > < <mailto: <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com> marcelcwerner@gmail.com> <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com> marcelcwerner@gmail.com> > >>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > >>>> To: <mailto: <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> jwalu@yahoo.com> <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> jwalu@yahoo.com > >>>> Cc: <mailto: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke> <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke, "KICTAnet > ICT Policy Discussions" > >> < <mailto: <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > >>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM > >>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in > Kenya > >>>> > >>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # > 3 - Report - > >>>> Public Panel 19 > >>>> June 2008 > >>>> > >>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add > at least one > >>>> percent point growth > >>>> to Kenya 's overall economic growth > within five years. > >>>> This is contingent > >>>> upon the adoption of legislation that > supports electronic > >>>> transactions. * Kenya , > >>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, > lags behind in > >>>> having a legal > >>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The > current situation is > >>>> an anachronism > >>>> hampering national development, placing > provincial centres > >>>> at a > >>>> disadvantage, and harming global > competitiveness. Both > >>>> external and internal > >>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan > private sector > >>>> strongly supports > >>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as > legislation of the > >>>> Information and > >>>> Communication Technology sector that > guarantees an open > >>>> market and promotes > >>>> innovation. > >>>> > >>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation > supporting > >>>> electronic transactions > >>>> represents the single most powerful > innovation opportunity > >>>> in the legal > >>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is > needed to: > >>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by > recognizing an > >>>> electronic signature > >>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r < KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:35 AM, kevit desai <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:
Bill I want to assure you that KIF holds elections. Next one is towards the end of the year. I will inform Marcel to post the information on Kictanet.
1. I am satisfied with your governance structures especially vouched for by Makau who attended an AGM as a proxy. I think clear governance criteria, constitution and membership roster should be mandatory requirements before any stakeholder, Government, Donor, Business or Civil Society engages with an organisation purporting to be representing interests of an industry. Actually we should 'whistle-blow' when we hear of such briefcase organisations. 2. Brian, Waudo, Alex - I would love to hear when you hold elections. For CSK I do remember very many years ago when the mantle changed from Shem to Waudo...but nothing new since then. Brian - I have been in Kictanet list for 5 years and unless I am missing something...please do remind me when we last held elections for office bearers. I just hear of funded consultancies being done by the same people over and over again and list discussions but I never see an expression of interest for members to participate. PS. Please take this at stride...I do not intend a flame but we must break the glass ceiling and scrutinise governance for society to embrace the organisations that represent us. As one of our leaders says...'Your daughter must not remain a virgin...if you want grand children.'
Dear Bill, You seem to have selective memory. Since mid-2006 there have been meetings, email, and various documents circulated publicly and on this list regarding KICTANETs registration as a Trust. A group of founding Trustees was nominated, and these form the Governing Council of which I am Chair. Many of the meetings had representatives from KIF/CSK/KEPSA and many other organisations as well as interested individuals. In case you missed some of this communication, please refer to the KICTANET list archives via the web interface at: http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Regards, Brian On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:35 AM, kevit desai < kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:
Bill I want to assure you that KIF holds elections. Next one is towards the end of the year. I will inform Marcel to post the information on Kictanet.
1. I am satisfied with your governance structures especially vouched for by Makau who attended an AGM as a proxy. I think clear governance criteria, constitution and membership roster should be mandatory requirements before any stakeholder, Government, Donor, Business or Civil Society engages with an organisation purporting to be representing interests of an industry. Actually we should 'whistle-blow' when we hear of such briefcase organisations.
2. Brian, Waudo, Alex - I would love to hear when you hold elections. For CSK I do remember very many years ago when the mantle changed from Shem to Waudo...but nothing new since then. Brian - I have been in Kictanet list for 5 years and unless I am missing something...please do remind me when we last held elections for office bearers. I just hear of funded consultancies being done by the same people over and over again and list discussions but I never see an expression of interest for members to participate.
PS. Please take this at stride...I do not intend a flame but we must break the glass ceiling and scrutinise governance for society to embrace the organisations that represent us. As one of our leaders says...'Your daughter must not remain a virgin...if you want grand children.'
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-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
Ok...Brian. I rest my case. I was actually thinking that I was being helpful. Referring me to archives does not prove that Kictanet indeed is run democratically and that all members are eligible to hold positions in the organisation. We have never held elections in Kictanet. CSK lost its credibility because of the same issues we are facing here...and was hoping and (still is) hoping that kictanet does not go the same way. We have to stop being afraid of elections and run transparent structures or just let us know that we are only needed in the periphery participating in discussions in public organisations whose management is private. I want to see Brian seat there as Chairman of Kictanet for 1 or 2 years after beating me in an AGM by 30 to 25 votes knowing that I can challenge his leadership by selling my vision to members/voters of Kictanet in the next AGM. Come On!!! On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Brian Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Bill,
You seem to have selective memory. Since mid-2006 there have been meetings, email, and various documents circulated publicly and on this list regarding KICTANETs registration as a Trust. A group of founding Trustees was nominated, and these form the Governing Council of which I am Chair.
Many of the meetings had representatives from KIF/CSK/KEPSA and many other organisations as well as interested individuals.
In case you missed some of this communication, please refer to the KICTANET list archives via the web interface at: http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Regards,
Brian
Solid reposte Bill. I love your spirit and passion :-) Please do not be afraid to read through the archives. I have also awed the secretariat to prepare a report which compiles most of these issues for review in the upcoming public forum. We are currently considering dates, how is first week of August everyone? Regards, Brian Sent from my iPhone On 14 Jul 2008, at 11:55 AM, "Bill Kagai" <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok...Brian. I rest my case. I was actually thinking that I was being helpful. Referring me to archives does not prove that Kictanet indeed is run democratically and that all members are eligible to hold positions in the organisation. We have never held elections in Kictanet.
CSK lost its credibility because of the same issues we are facing here...and was hoping and (still is) hoping that kictanet does not go the same way. We have to stop being afraid of elections and run transparent structures or just let us know that we are only needed in the periphery participating in discussions in public organisations whose management is private.
I want to see Brian seat there as Chairman of Kictanet for 1 or 2 years after beating me in an AGM by 30 to 25 votes knowing that I can challenge his leadership by selling my vision to members/voters of Kictanet in the next AGM. Come On!!!
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Brian Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Bill,
You seem to have selective memory. Since mid-2006 there have been meetings, email, and various documents circulated publicly and on this list regarding KICTANETs registration as a Trust. A group of founding Trustees was nominated, and these form the Governing Council of which I am Chair.
Many of the meetings had representatives from KIF/CSK/KEPSA and many other organisations as well as interested individuals.
In case you missed some of this communication, please refer to the KICTANET list archives via the web interface at: http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Regards,
Brian
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Bill - I do not ever remember you becoming a member of CSK. Where were you for example when we elected Dr. Moses Waigwa Chairman? It is important to give a caveat when you are talking from a possible position of ignorance instead of making your point look like a fact when it is not. Kind Regards, Waudo On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:55:10 +0300, "Bill Kagai" <billkagai@gmail.com> sa id: Ok...Brian. I rest my case. I was actually thinking that I was being helpful. Referring me to archives does not prove that Kictanet indeed is run democratically and that all members are eligible to hold positions in the organisation. We have never held elections in Kictanet. CSK lost its credibility because of the same issues we are facing here...and was hoping and (still is) hoping that kictanet does not go the same way. We have to stop being afraid of elections and run transparent structures or just let us know that we are only needed in the periphery participating in discussions in public organisations whose management is private. I want to see Brian seat there as Chairman of Kictanet for 1 or 2 years after beating me in an AGM by 30 to 25 votes knowing that I can challenge his leadership by selling my vision to members/voters of Kictanet in the next AGM. Come On!!! On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Brian Longwe <[1]blongwe@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Bill, You seem to have selective memory. Since mid-2006 there have been meetings, email, and various documents circulated publicly and on this list regarding KICTANETs registration as a Trust. A group of founding Trustees was nominated, and these form the Governing Council of which I am Chair. Many of the meetings had representatives from KIF/CSK/KEPSA and many other organisations as well as interested individuals. In case you missed some of this communication, please refer to the KICTANET list archives via the web interface at: [2]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Regards, Brian References 1. mailto:blongwe@gmail.com 2. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 2:43 PM, waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Bill - I do not ever remember you becoming a member of CSK. Where were you for example when we elected Dr. Moses Waigwa Chairman?
In 1999, I came to your office (first floor) some building on Moi Avenue. I paid you membership money on behalf of Kenya Society for the Blind and you gave us an award for introducing Adaptive Technology (Computer Technology for Visually Impaired Persons) at InterContinental Hotel. We did that project with IDRC if I recall correctly. I remember that night, Charles Nduatti was the master of ceremonies for that award ceremony. Yes...10 years ago we were dealing....Kazee. We need to move and give space to the young blood. And am not after your position...we will go to tend goats together. Bill
Hi Bill,
As a conclusion, I must admit that I have never received an email (and I read all my email, including spam) calling me for an AGM/election of any of these organisations...KIF, KICTANET, Consumer Organisation (Alex) and CSK.
I once stood in for a KIF member who could not attend an AGM and voted by proxy for the member. I do not think KIF sends blanket invitations to non members to attend their meetings. Please contact the KIF secretariat and the able directors (the Chair and host of the KIF secretariat) are easily approachable fellows and would take you in their wings if you seriously wanted to join the KIF. Have a great week as your statement "2. Brian, Waudo, Alex - I would love to hear when you hold elections. For CSK I do remember very many years ago when the mantle changed from Shem to Waudo...but nothing new since then." is the truth that will set us free. David On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:35 AM, kevit desai <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:
Bill I want to assure you that KIF holds elections. Next one is towards the end of the year. I will inform Marcel to post the information on Kictanet.
1. I am satisfied with your governance structures especially vouched for by Makau who attended an AGM as a proxy. I think clear governance criteria, constitution and membership roster should be mandatory requirements before any stakeholder, Government, Donor, Business or Civil Society engages with an organisation purporting to be representing interests of an industry. Actually we should 'whistle-blow' when we hear of such briefcase organisations.
2. Brian, Waudo, Alex - I would love to hear when you hold elections. For CSK I do remember very many years ago when the mantle changed from Shem to Waudo...but nothing new since then. Brian - I have been in Kictanet list for 5 years and unless I am missing something...please do remind me when we last held elections for office bearers. I just hear of funded consultancies being done by the same people over and over again and list discussions but I never see an expression of interest for members to participate.
PS. Please take this at stride...I do not intend a flame but we must break the glass ceiling and scrutinise governance for society to embrace the organisations that represent us. As one of our leaders says...'Your daughter must not remain a virgin...if you want grand children.'
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Hello Bill, I guess I would be speaking for most associations when I mention that the majority are "membership" associations. CSK holds an AGM every year (confined to members) and makes returns to the Registrar. If you do not get to hear much then most likely you are not a member. I can also confirm to you that most associations in Kenya are barely limping along due to lack of resources even to rent their own offices let alone broadcast their activities to the general populace. Maybe there are some who get funding from somewhere - I don't know about those ones. There are a number of ways to support an association . One way is to become a paid-up member. Another is to roll up your sleeves and actively serve as an unpaid volunteer official. Being an armchair critic is useful but only to some extent. An obscure Greek plilosopher known as Oldrides once observed that "Nothing is impossible for the person who does not have to do it". Waudo On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:38:51 +0300, "Bill Kagai" <billkagai@gmail.com> sa id: On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:35 AM, kevit desai <[1]kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote: Bill I want to assure you that KIF holds elections. Next one is towards the end of the year. I will inform Marcel to post the information on Kictanet. 1. I am satisfied with your governance structures especially vouched for by Makau who attended an AGM as a proxy. I think clear governance criteria, constitution and membership roster should be mandatory requirements before any stakeholder, Government, Donor, Business or Civil Society engages with an organisation purporting to be representing interests of an industry. Actually we should 'whistle-blow' when we hear of such briefcase organisations. 2. Brian, Waudo, Alex - I would love to hear when you hold elections. For CSK I do remember very many years ago when the mantle changed from Shem to Waudo...but nothing new since then. Brian - I have been in Kictanet list for 5 years and unless I am missing something...please do remind me when we last held elections for office bearers. I just hear of funded consultancies being done by the same people over and over again and list discussions but I never see an expression of interest for members to participate. PS. Please take this at stride...I do not intend a flame but we must break the glass ceiling and scrutinise governance for society to embrace the organisations that represent us. As one of our leaders says...'Your daughter must not remain a virgin...if you want grand children.' References 1. mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius).
Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed. We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did. Asante. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: "Bill Kagai" <billkagai@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:38:51 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Discipline & Ethics _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke
Daktari, I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of the problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress their sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only] The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions. You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry through my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others. Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani. Bill On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
Hi all, We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce themselves and their policies to the public. There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement. Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this. Warm regards, Brian On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of the problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress their sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry through my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
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This is welcome and hope that both the agenda and programme will be shared onlist in advance to enable everyone best prepare for the meeting to be most fruitful. Our default assumption should be that the diaspora is interested. Recalling their sizable remittances, cultivating their goodwill and facilitating their hustle-free investment would solve some "localisation" challenges and exclusion perceptions. Wonder if Josiah Mugambi, Riyaz and team might be able to get skunkworks motives expressed then? --- On Mon, 7/14/08, Brian Munyao Longwe <brian@caret.net> wrote:
From: Brian Munyao Longwe <brian@caret.net> Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics) To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Monday, July 14, 2008, 6:39 AM Hi all,
We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce themselves and their policies to the public.
There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement.
Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this.
Warm regards,
Brian
The default assumption is correct, there have been some discussions (stemming out of recent controversy) such as excerpts from the one below about the diaspora playing a role in the country's economy. Instead of purchasing hotels, the diaspora if pointed to opportunities in other sectors such as ICT could play a key role. Hopefully KAIF will be able to have some representation at the forum. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Kanaka Ogendi <imo4492@gmail.com Date: Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 6:09 AM Wananchi The idea of Diaspora Kenyans getting together to buy Grand Regency Hotel isn't a bad one. Of course, the timing may not be the best but I think it is a good idea subject to a number of provisions. In Australia increasing numbers of mzungus are teaming up to form cooperative-style arrangements that enable them achieve what no individual could achieve on his/her own. The overriding provisions for the success of such an arrangement include: 1. Mutual trust. If this is lacking there can be no success 2. Accountability/Transparency in all transactions 3. Shared goals, aspirations and strategies. 4. Access to information and resources required for the project. 5. Clearly identify risks and develop a clear management strategy Business partnerships thrive on trust. The moment trust is lost the partnership will crumble. For the current proposal to take off there must be trust amongst us and trust in the project leaders. Is it present? Accountability/transparency. This is something that people have to experience. It more or less guarantee smooth running of an endeavour once started. Shared goals, aspirations and strategies. What we want in our lives as individuals may vary from person to person. Some are quite happy and settled on the day job - 8am to 5pm type stuff. Others meet their needs by doing a second or third job and they are satisfied. Some are a bit more adventurous and seek to create additional income streams in form of investments etc. Others prefer some investment vehicles which others do not like. For instance, some people have no time for managed investment vehicles whereas others prefer to let 'professionals' manage investments for them. Do we have shared investment goals, aspirations and strategies? Without this I'm afraid this great idea will be difficult to kick off. Access to information & resources needed for the project. The Grand Regency is presently in the grip of a grand controversy. There is a caveat in place, a court injunction and signed sale documents. Access to the kind of information an investor will require is quite difficult in the current environment. This increases the risk substantially and hence is a disincentive. Matunda's suggestion of an elaborately laid out business plan and strategy complete with numbers will be very helpful in getting people interested. Mwangi's suggestion of waiting until the dust settles before jumping in is very reasonable, at least to me. It is a major undertaking and therefore utmost care and planning must go into it. Otherwise success can be elusive. My pesa nane. Kanaka Ogendi ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: nmatunda <matunda@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 8:53 AM Mwaniki, This is a good challenge. As we have discussed before, identify the investment target $$amount and challenge people to raise the money with clarity on how the money would be managed; and returns expectations. The last IPO (despite the calls of suspicion raised by some) generated substantial inflow of money into Kenya! It is almost scary to imagine the potential for investment that exists. Yet Safaricom attracted such monies for the reason that investors understand the potential there is in the shares and the returns thereof. It is also simple and straighforward. What KAIF needs is a couple of structured investment instruments, complete with projected returns, along with reporting on the investment performance. This can then be sold widely to people. By the way, Grand Regency is just one of the potential investment targets; the potential for investment in Kenya has never been higher! There is a well-educated workforce whose emoluments are modest and (yes) the people need jobs! Matunda Nyanchama --- In africa-oped@yahoogroups.com, FMwan@... wrote:
Wananchi, To quell this broil at home, let us all Kenyans abroad buy this asset
kill two birds with one stone: 1. Solve the malady occupying the minds of people that should be thinking of local dispensaries 2. Prove to ourselves that we care for our country This is not a test. Let us put a decent offer on the table and ask
and the
government to consider it now. We can in a matter of days put the financing and general management in place in the Kenyans Abroad Investment Fund (KAIF), which is open to all Kenyans overseas. If we pick people that we know can run a business, whether in India, South Africa, England, Canada, Japan or the USA, this is something very feasible and a snap. The point is to retain this asset as truly Kenyan and forget about what happened prior to now. There is nothing to be gained by consuming ourselves with misguided hatred. Tujiunge mikono and save ourselves from annoying each other but most importantly, re-asserting that Kenyans do not fail, they can stumble but they win TOGETHER. Problem solved. 1. KAIF is already registered in Kenya 2. We have an agreement with a major Kenyan bank (100% Kenyan owned) 3. We have the talent to gather the necessary funds Let us not be just talk. What say you? Regards, Frank Mwaniki, PhD Management Scientist
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> wrote:
Our default assumption should be that the diaspora is interested. Recalling their sizable remittances, cultivating their goodwill and facilitating their hustle-free investment would solve some "localisation" challenges and exclusion perceptions.
--- On Mon, 7/14/08, Brian Munyao Longwe <brian@caret.net> wrote:
From: Brian Munyao Longwe <brian@caret.net> Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics) To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Monday, July 14, 2008, 6:39 AM Hi all,
We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce themselves and their policies to the public.
There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement.
Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this.
Warm regards,
Brian
Dear All, I am obviously one of those that are subscribers to this list but rather prefer to silently observe the exchanges. This is that one time that I have felt the urge to really make a comment on some of the issues being discussed as I think that by not doing so, I will let pass an opportunity to correct some misrepresentations/misconceptions that have been relayed here. Allow me to comment on the exchanges that have flown about especially as regards KIF. I speak as the immediate past Chairman of KIF and one who also presided over an open and smooth change of guard, otherwise known as elections. After more than 10 years of involvement with KIF and its predecessor(s) in various capacities, I "retired" from active leadership (on my own volition, even though I had the choice to offer myself to serve a second and final term as Chair) to apply my time to other pursuits of personal interest. FYI: All KIF office bearers serve for no pay OR emoluments of any nature whatsoever, be they sitting allowances to attend meetings or any such. KIF membership is OPEN to all players in the ICT Industry and interested parties. There are various categories of membership. Obviously only those fully paid up members participate at the elections when they are due. And they do get called at the due time, without fail. KIF has on numerous occasions reached out to other representative bodies in the ICT industry to join its membership. It sounds hollow when I see some of the exchanges here that seem to suggest that KIF is an exclusive club. It never at any single point sought to lock anyone out and as far as I know, even now, it is actively looking to recruit more members. For the record KIF has very OPEN and examinable records for those who are interested to inspect how KIF conducts its business. Some of us have nothing to our names except our reputations and it behoves upon me here to put the record straight where I think this is being violated. What I can say is that those individuals who have been involved with KIF have offered selfless service and have been Proud to Serve! (sorry for plagiarising). We are proud of our achievements. There is a whole slate of achievements that can be directly attributed to the direct effort of these individuals. Most of them choose to remain silent and let their work speak for them. For a bit of background, KIF previously was the High Tech and Growth Committee of the Nairobi Stock Exchange. This committee was established under the auspices of the NSE to help stimulate venture investment into mostly ICT and other technology led high-growth industry in Kenya. Most of the NSE committees morphed and merged with other industry representative bodies to form the initial representative bodies of KEPSA. For some reason the ICT Committee appeared then to be the most organised during the early days of KEPSA and so we naturally became the voice of ICT. It was supposed to be that all industry organisations would eventually work together in their respective sectors and speak in one strong voice for the sectors that they represented. I think that it remains a work in progress and just to avoid any exchanges here, I don't speak for KEPSA and so I don't know the current situation. Needless to say, I am one of those who supports all positive criticism that can help us strengthen and embolden our various institutions be they public or private. Regards, Aquinas ----------------------------------------------------------------- Aquinas Wasike Chief Executive Officer LANTech (Africa) Limited PO Box 6384 - 00200 11th Floor, Loita House Loita Street Nairobi, Kenya Mobile: +254 722 511120 DL : +254 20 245476 Fax : +254 20 316747 Email: aquinasw@lantech.co.ke<mailto:aquinasw@lantech.co.ke> Website: www.lantech.co.ke ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: kictanet-bounces+aquinasw=lantech.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+aquinasw=lantech.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of kevit desai Sent: 14 July 2008 09:36 To: Aquinas Wasike Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Discipline & Ethics Hi Tim, No one turned up. I waited until 6 pm. Joseph, There are meeting rooms as part off the poolside. The ICT fraternity including Kictanet use them occasionally. I did not mention bars or alcoholic drinks. Brian and I also concluded that we have to protect the reputation of the progress we are making as Nation towards embracing ICT's, especially our vision to make Kenya a top ten ICT hub. This is in a global context. Bill I want to assure you that KIF holds elections. Next one is towards the end of the year. I will inform Marcel to post the information on Kictanet. Kevit Desai ________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe Sent: 14 July 2008 07:23 To: kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Discipline & Ethics I met Kevit yester evening. Purely by mistake as I wasnt aware of his e-invite. Nevertheless we h a good chat and basically agreed on the importance of having a public forum where different ICT bodies could introduce themselves and their governance structures. It would also be a good opportunity to gauge the relevance/value/purpose of the different bodies. My brief.... Brian Sent from my iPhone On 13 Jul 2008, at 9:59 PM, "Tim Rick" <timrick@gmail.com<mailto:timrick@gmail.com>> wrote: I would love to know how many of the people here met Kevit and the results.the discussion is just making me realise Kenyans have woken up after the Grand Saga.So Kevit?Any good discussions you had and way forward? 2008/7/13 <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke>>: Send kictanet mailing list submissions to kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> You can reach the person managing the list at kictanet-owner@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet-owner@lists.kictanet.or.ke> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya (kevit desai) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:37:11 +0300 From: "kevit desai" <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya To: <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com<mailto:kiriinya2000@yahoo.com>> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Message-ID: <E1KHy1I-0008Rn-Cw@mail01.safaricom.com<mailto:E1KHy1I-0008Rn-Cw@mail01.safaricom.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Why don't we all meet at the Jacaranda, land mark, Westlands at 5.00pm today. At the poolside. Informal discussion. I will be waiting. Kevit Desai _____ From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com<http://centurionsystemsltd.com>@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://lists.kictanet.or.ke> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit<mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>=centurionsystemsltd.com<http://centurionsystemsltd.com>@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://lists.kictanet.or.ke>] On Behalf Of wesley kiriinya Sent: 13 July 2008 10:52 To: kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya Gentlemen, Before these so called foreigners got these positions that Kenyans would have occupied, what were Kenyans waiting for? (Honest question.) If there is a higher appointing authority that picks these so called foreigners over Kenyans then it's them to blame (if there is a good reason). That said, as much as free speech is appreciated, so is discretion. Sorry to say but it is embarrassing to read some of these posts. Regards. --- On Sun, 7/13/08, waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com<mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com>> wrote: From: waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com<mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com<mailto:kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 9:19 AM Hi All - I am the one that asserted that Kenyan (ICT) associations should be run by Kenyans and I stand by that. It has absolutely nothing to do with racism. Every country has policies to protect its people. Even in the USA you can only stand for president if you were born American. Is that racism? Associations are at the heart of pushing for policy and it pains me to see foreigners jostling Kenyans out of the way and being the ones running up and down the Government corridors carrying "position papers". I find it deplorable that Brian is using his position on the list to threaten to unsubscribe those who do not agree with his views and consign them to the Nyayo House dungeons. Brian you have been partisan on these issues throughout. You are issuing "apologies" to people you already sided with and they are quickly "accepting". At one time you were saying we visit KIF to see how they run meetings as though suggesting Kenyans do not know how to run meetings. Is this the Brian I knew or someone using your mail account? Tafadhali, wacha wananchi wasema hata kama uko pande ile ingine. Waudo On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:52:02 +0300, "kevit desai" <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> said: Dear Brian, Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman. Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some off the very exciting things we are doing. What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the success and contributions of some people. Kenya 's grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner , and others, they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICT's. Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place. Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us all to a common vision of ICT's for National development. I am waiting.. Kevit Desai _____ From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com<http://centurionsystemsltd.com>@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://lists.kictanet.or.ke> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit<mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>=centurionsystemsltd.com<http://centurionsystemsltd.com>@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://lists.kictanet.or.ke>] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe Sent: 12 July 2008 09:50 To: kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF, I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue. As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows. I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya . I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum. As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs. I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month. I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya , and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions. Sincerely Brian Munyao Longwe Chairman, KICTANET Sent from my iPhone On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, " Marcel Werner " <marcelcwerner@gmail.com<mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com>> wrote: Hello Kictanet membership, The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies. KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week). Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable. The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on <http://www.kictanet.or.ke/> http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance - I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members". We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house. We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense. Best regards, Marcel Werner , chairman of KIF :) 2008/7/11 kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>>: Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false. It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation. For now I close my participation. Kevit Desai -----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto: <mailto:alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com<mailto:alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com>> alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com<mailto:alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com>] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Kevit; KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR? Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?. regards, On 7/11/08, kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004,
2005,
2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
Raphta Rd , Westlands - Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile : +254 722 517067
<http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
<http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/>
<http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.ieee.org <http://www.ieee.org/>
http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/>
<http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net
<http://www.innovation-africa.net/>
<http://www.aiesec.org/> http://www.aiesec.org <http://www.aiesec.org/>
<http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.africon2007.co.za
<http://www.africon2007.co.za/>
<http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/>
<http://www.ict.go.ke/> www.ict.go.ke<http://www.ict.go.ke> <http://www.ict.go.ke/>
<http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.globalcompact.org
<http://www.globalcompact.org/>
<http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com<http://centurionsystemsltd.com>
<http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://lists.kictanet.or.ke> <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit<mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>=centurionsystemsltd.com<http://centurionsystemsltd.com> <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://lists.kictanet.or.ke> <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> ]
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 To: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo < <mailto:skisonzo@securenet.co.ke<mailto:skisonzo@securenet.co.ke>> skisonzo@securenet.co.ke<mailto:skisonzo@securenet.co.ke>> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been involved.
SK
From: kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com<http://gmail.com> <http://gmail.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://lists.kictanet.or.ke> <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo<mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bskisonzo>=gmail.com<http://gmail.com> <http://gmail.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://lists.kictanet.or.ke> <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> ] On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 To: <mailto:skisonzo@gmail.com<mailto:skisonzo@gmail.com>> skisonzo@gmail.com<mailto:skisonzo@gmail.com>
Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Waudo: I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga < <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com<mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com>> emailsignet@mailcan.com<mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com>> wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT Board not being equated with KIF. Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" < <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com<mailto:blongwe@gmail.com>> blongwe@gmail.com<mailto:blongwe@gmail.com>> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" < <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com<mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com>> emailsignet@mailcan.com<mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com>> wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the internal operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ KIF relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. For your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA and decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA but I am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" < <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com<mailto:blongwe@gmail.com>> blongwe@gmail.com<mailto:blongwe@gmail.com>> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to you about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru < <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com<mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com>> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com<mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies Act ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
<http://www.innovation-africa.net/> www.innovation-africa.net<http://www.innovation-africa.net> <http://www.innovation-africa.net/>
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET<http://INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET> <http://innovation-africa.net/> Registrar: TUCOWS INC. Whois Server: whois.tucows.com<http://whois.tucows.com> <http://whois.tucows.com/> Referral URL: <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/> http://domainhelp.opensrs.net <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/> Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET<http://ULTRA103.UK2.NET> <http://ultra103.uk2.net/> Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET<http://ULTRA104.UK2.NET> <http://ultra104.uk2.net/> Status: redemptionPeriod Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 Creation Date: 14-may-2007 Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> www.innovation-africa.co.ke<http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke> <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> >> was re-directing to >> <http://www.kif.or.ke/> www.kif.or.ke<http://www.kif.or.ke> <http://www.kif.or.ke/> ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> wrote:
From: kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya To: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com<mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com>> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com<mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and market segment associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence : KEPSA decisions are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from the private sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for membership in KEPSA, neither are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows the same approach for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and government agencies are member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR BASIS with all those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no obligation to offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam Mwaura of KEPSA or Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message----- From: Alex Gakuru [mailto: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com<mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com>> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com<mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com>] Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions independence? The political issue here may be monopolization to the extent of clouding out other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' attitude towards cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments with different degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no competition at all up to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute generously to a public project in the absence of competition, whereas they contribute very little in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A diminishing attitude towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of competition increases. Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the maximum degree of competition may be not efficient.
< <http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> wrote:
> From: kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > To: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com<mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com>> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com<mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> > Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke<mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke>> secretariat@kif.or.ke<mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke>, "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> > Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM > Hi Waudo, > > As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > association to full > membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful > partnership. > > > > > > Kevit Desai > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: waudo siganga [mailto: <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com<mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com>> emailsignet@mailcan.com<mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com>] > Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 > To: Kevit Desai > Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke<mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke>> secretariat@kif.or.ke<mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke>; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when handling > KEPSA and KIF at > the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to promote > KIF at the > expense of other associations. The explanation is very > simple: KEPSA was > formed as a focal point, a bringing together characterised > by INCLUSIVITY. > KIF on the other hand is an independent association and the > nature of such > an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership > mechanism). I would like > to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA ICT > Board, not just > KIF. Please give us space. > > Waudo > > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit Desai" > < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> said: > > Hi Alex, > > > > KEPSA ( <mailto:info@kepsa.or.ke<mailto:info@kepsa.or.ke>> info@kepsa.or.ke<mailto:info@kepsa.or.ke>): private sector policy body with > its own governance > structure. Elected as a director in private capacity and as > KIF vice > chairman. > > > > KIF ( <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke<mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke>> secretariat@kif.or.ke<mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke>): membership-based industry > association, member > of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. > > > > Centurion Systems Ltd: ( <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> www.centurionsystemsltd.com<http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com> <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> ) > private company, > director, member of KIF. > > > > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd > > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section > > Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition > > Governor - KEPSA > > Director - KEPSA > > Director - Innovation Africa > > Director- Kenya ICT Board > > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation > > BOA - AIESEC > > Member - National Strategy for University Education > > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya > > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 > > > > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, > >
Raphta Rd
> > , Westlands - Nairobi > > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. > > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 > 2049750 > > Mobile : +254 722 517067 > > > > <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> > > <http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.ieee.org <http://www.ieee.org/> > > <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> > > <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> > > <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> http://www.kepsa.or.ke <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> > > <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> http://www.powerup.co.ke <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> > > <http://www.aiesec.org/> http://www.aiesec.org <http://www.aiesec.org/> > > <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.africon2007.co.za <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> > > <http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/> > > htpp:// <http://www.ict.go.ke/> www.ict.go.ke<http://www.ict.go.ke> <http://www.ict.go.ke/> > > <http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.globalcompact.org <http://www.globalcompact.org/> > > <http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: waudo siganga [mailto: <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com<mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com>> emailsignet@mailcan.com<mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com>] > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM > To: kevit desai > Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke<mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke>> secretariat@kif.or.ke<mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke>; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions' > Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET I can > answer it on > > the same forum. I think the picture being painted about a > rosy situation > > including "collaboration" is simply not true. The > reason to be frank is > > that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other > association to > > have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. Could > you as a > > KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations > including the > > major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute in > KEPSA? It can be > > sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to promote > KIF and crack > > down on those you feel are in the way. > > Waudo > > > > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit desai" > > < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> said: > >> Hi Walu, > >> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. I > would like to confirm > >> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We would > like to do a lot > >> more > >> and welcome more support. > >> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our last > ministerial stakeholder > >> forum. > >> Collaboration is the way forward. > >> > >> Kevit Desai > >> KEPSA Director > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: >
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com<http://centurionsystemsltd.com> <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://lists.kictanet.or.ke> <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
> >> >
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit<mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>=centurionsystemsltd.com<http://centurionsystemsltd.com> <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://lists.kictanet.or.ke> <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
] > >> On Behalf Of waudo siganga > >> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 > >> To: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com<mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> > >> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke<mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke>> secretariat@kif.or.ke<mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions > >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > e-Commerce in > >> Kenya > >> > >> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on GPRS > somewhere in the > >> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the IT > (or ICT) Profession > >> on this list a few months ago. But the rather > unenthusiastic response I > >> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not the > correct list since > >> many of the subscribers appear just interested in ICT > Policy rather than > >> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two weeks > there will be another > >> list for professionals and you will be informed (you > have the > >> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing for a > registration board > >> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and > Procurement > >> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on > unheralded. All we need > >> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. > >> Waudo > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), "John > Walubengo" > >> < <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com<mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com>> jwalu@yahoo.com<mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com>> said: > >>> Marcel, > >>> > >>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in > this > >>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was > restricted within KIF only? > I > >>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r > u there?) or > >>> Information Security Audit & Control > (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to > >>> mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya > were involved. I beg to > >>> be enlightened. > >>> > >>> This brings in an old question - who really > represents the IT Profession > >>> in Kenya ? Shem has been on record as saying that > IT is the only > >>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with the > same authority as LSK > >>> (Law Society of Kenya ), IEK (Institute of > Engineers of Kenya ), Medical > >>> Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate > the IT Profession. > >>> > >>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill > either (and has a > >>> different objective anyway). But time has come > to really start thinking > >>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we > struggle to regulate the > >>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on > this, but they have been > >>> awfully quite except when they award prizes at > the end of the year > (Waudo > >>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had to > say it!). > >>> > >>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective particularly > in the Manufacturing > >>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as > effective - particularly > >>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the IT > industry has been 'cloudy' > >>> for lack of a better word...Can for example CSK > or ISACA be part of > >>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again need to > be enlightened. > >>> > >>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just thinking > loudly and saying that as > >>> we think of regulating electronic transactions, > we also need to > >>> simultaneously start regulating the IT > profession..but maybe I am wrong. > >>> Particularly because regulation can and often > leads to suppression... > >>> > >>> walu. > >>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner > < <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com<mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com>> marcelcwerner@gmail.com<mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Marcel Werner > < <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com<mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com>> marcelcwerner@gmail.com<mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com>> > >>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and > Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > >>>> To: <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com<mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com>> jwalu@yahoo.com<mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> > >>>> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke<mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke>> secretariat@kif.or.ke<mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke>, "KICTAnet > ICT Policy Discussions" > >> < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> > >>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM > >>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in > Kenya > >>>> > >>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # > 3 - Report - > >>>> Public Panel 19 > >>>> June 2008 > >>>> > >>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add > at least one > >>>> percent point growth > >>>> to Kenya 's overall economic growth > within five years. > >>>> This is contingent > >>>> upon the adoption of legislation that > supports electronic > >>>> transactions. * Kenya , > >>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, > lags behind in > >>>> having a legal > >>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The > current situation is > >>>> an anachronism > >>>> hampering national development, placing > provincial centres > >>>> at a > >>>> disadvantage, and harming global > competitiveness. Both > >>>> external and internal > >>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan > private sector > >>>> strongly supports > >>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as > legislation of the > >>>> Information and > >>>> Communication Technology sector that > guarantees an open > >>>> market and promotes > >>>> innovation. > >>>> > >>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation > supporting > >>>> electronic transactions > >>>> represents the single most powerful > innovation opportunity > >>>> in the legal > >>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is > needed to: > >>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by > recognizing an > >>>> electronic signature > >>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r < KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com<mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com>> marcelcwerner@gmail.com<mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com> Unsubscribe or change your options at <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/marcelcwerner@gmail.co m> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/marcelcwerner%40gmail.c om <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/marcelcwerner@gmail.co m> -- MARCEL please send any business mail to: <mailto:Marcel.Werner@innovation-africa.or.ke<mailto:Marcel.Werner@innovation-africa.or.ke>> Marcel.Werner@innovation-africa.or.ke<mailto:Marcel.Werner@innovation-africa.or.ke> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com<mailto:blongwe@gmail.com>> blongwe@gmail.com<mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> Unsubscribe or change your options at <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe@gmail.com> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe@gmail.com> People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius). _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com<mailto:kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kiriinya2000%40yahoo.co m
Brian, That has been my position on this throughout. In my view, which I expressed to KIF, calling an abrupt meeting would not augur well for KIF. It is important to give ample notice, invite all concerned parties and discuss the matters arising. I believe this should put matters to rest. Kind regards, Gilda Odera Managing Director Skyweb Technologies Ltd Tel: 254-20-2711446/2711760 Fax: 254-20-2713934 URL:www.skyweb.co.ke ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Munyao Longwe To: Gilda Odera Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 7:22 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Discipline & Ethics I met Kevit yester evening. Purely by mistake as I wasnt aware of his e-invite. Nevertheless we h a good chat and basically agreed on the importance of having a public forum where different ICT bodies could introduce themselves and their governance structures. It would also be a good opportunity to gauge the relevance/value/purpose of the different bodies. My brief.... Brian Sent from my iPhone On 13 Jul 2008, at 9:59 PM, "Tim Rick" <timrick@gmail.com> wrote: I would love to know how many of the people here met Kevit and the results.the discussion is just making me realise Kenyans have woken up after the Grand Saga.So Kevit?Any good discussions you had and way forward? 2008/7/13 <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke>: Send kictanet mailing list submissions to kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke You can reach the person managing the list at kictanet-owner@lists.kictanet.or.ke When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya (kevit desai) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:37:11 +0300 From: "kevit desai" <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya To: <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Message-ID: <E1KHy1I-0008Rn-Cw@mail01.safaricom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Why don't we all meet at the Jacaranda, land mark, Westlands at 5.00pm today. At the poolside. Informal discussion. I will be waiting. Kevit Desai _____ From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of wesley kiriinya Sent: 13 July 2008 10:52 To: kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulationfore-Commerce in Kenya Gentlemen, Before these so called foreigners got these positions that Kenyans would have occupied, what were Kenyans waiting for? (Honest question.) If there is a higher appointing authority that picks these so called foreigners over Kenyans then it's them to blame (if there is a good reason). That said, as much as free speech is appreciated, so is discretion. Sorry to say but it is embarrassing to read some of these posts. Regards. --- On Sun, 7/13/08, waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote: From: waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 9:19 AM Hi All - I am the one that asserted that Kenyan (ICT) associations should be run by Kenyans and I stand by that. It has absolutely nothing to do with racism. Every country has policies to protect its people. Even in the USA you can only stand for president if you were born American. Is that racism? Associations are at the heart of pushing for policy and it pains me to see foreigners jostling Kenyans out of the way and being the ones running up and down the Government corridors carrying "position papers". I find it deplorable that Brian is using his position on the list to threaten to unsubscribe those who do not agree with his views and consign them to the Nyayo House dungeons. Brian you have been partisan on these issues throughout. You are issuing "apologies" to people you already sided with and they are quickly "accepting". At one time you were saying we visit KIF to see how they run meetings as though suggesting Kenyans do not know how to run meetings. Is this the Brian I knew or someone using your mail account? Tafadhali, wacha wananchi wasema hata kama uko pande ile ingine. Waudo On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:52:02 +0300, "kevit desai" <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said: Dear Brian, Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman. Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some off the very exciting things we are doing. What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the success and contributions of some people. Kenya 's grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner , and others, they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICT's. Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place. Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us all to a common vision of ICT's for National development. I am waiting.. Kevit Desai _____ From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe Sent: 12 July 2008 09:50 To: kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF, I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue. As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows. I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya . I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum. As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs. I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month. I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya , and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions. Sincerely Brian Munyao Longwe Chairman, KICTANET Sent from my iPhone On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, " Marcel Werner " <marcelcwerner@gmail.com> wrote: Hello Kictanet membership, The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies. KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week). Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable. The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on <http://www.kictanet.or.ke/> http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance - I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members". We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house. We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense. Best regards, Marcel Werner , chairman of KIF :) 2008/7/11 kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>: Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false. It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation. For now I close my participation. Kevit Desai -----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto: <mailto:alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Kevit; KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR? Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?. regards, On 7/11/08, kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote: > > > > > Dear Sylvester, > > > > Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further > information on the following activities: > > > > Historical & present- Impact > > > > - Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions > private sector - Government, with KEPSA) > > - Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004, 2005, > 2006) > > - E-Government - municipal councils > > - Open source software community > > - E-commerce legislation > > - Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008 > > - ICT Bills (2006 - 2008) > > - Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003) > > - National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006) > > - Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008 > > - National innovation system > > - University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current) > > - PSDS > > - Africon 2009 > > - Public panels with Kenya ICT Board > > > > Associations: > > > > - KEPSA > > - KIF > > - IEEE > > - Kenya software industry association > > > Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge level > of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant > leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board. We > need your support > > > > Kevit Desai > > > > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems > > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section > > Chairman - Engineering students exhibition > > Governor - KEPSA > > Director - KEPSA > > Director - Innovation Africa > > Director- Kenya ICT Board > > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation > > BOA - AIESEC > > Member - National Strategy for University Education > > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya > > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 > > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd , Westlands - Nairobi > > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. > > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750 > > Mobile : +254 722 517067 > > <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> > > <http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.ieee.org <http://www.ieee.org/> > > <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> > > <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> > > <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> http://www.kepsa.or.ke <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> > > <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> http://www.powerup.co.ke <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> > > <http://www.aiesec.org/> http://www.aiesec.org <http://www.aiesec.org/> > > <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.africon2007.co.za <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> > > <http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/> > > <http://www.ict.go.ke/> www.ict.go.ke <http://www.ict.go.ke/> > > <http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.globalcompact.org <http://www.globalcompact.org/> > > <http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> > [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> ] > On Behalf Of Brian Longwe > Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57 > To: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com > > Cc: kictanet-lists > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > > Hi Sylvester, > > Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET > is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so > many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own > decisions as to whether to follow up/engage. > > Regards, > > Brian > > > On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo > < <mailto:skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> wrote: > > > > And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me? > KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never heard > of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been > involved. > > > > SK > > > > > From: > kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com <http://gmail.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> > [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com <http://gmail.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> ] > On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi > Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47 > To: <mailto:skisonzo@gmail.com> skisonzo@gmail.com > > > > > Cc: kictanet-lists > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > > > > > > Waudo: > I would like to pose a simple question: > > Why are these associations needed? > > Joe > > > On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga < <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com> > wrote: > > Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The > idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind > that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW > association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was > actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did > someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association??? > > Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right > track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure > it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on > someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover > there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the > front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT > Board not being equated with KIF. > Waudo > > > > On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" > < <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com> said: > > Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when > > KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa > > to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector. > > > > But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am > > right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner > > workings by visiting. > > > > I am urging action instead of just talk. > > > > Brian > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" < <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the > > > internal > > > operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/ > > > KIF > > > relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community. > > > For > > > your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA > > > and > > > decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector > > > associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto > > > stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately > > > represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with > > > this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the KEPSA > > > ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a > > > favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the > > > KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other > > > associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions" > > > instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the > > > MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA > > > but I > > > am hopeful things will change. > > > > > > Waudo > > > > > > On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe" > > > < <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com> said: > > >> Hi Alex, > > >> > > >> I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to > > >> you > > >> about KIF. > > >> > > >> I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and > > >> anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next KIF > > >> meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself. > > >> > > >> Brian > > >> > > >> Sent from my iPhone > > >> > > >> On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru < <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Kevit: > > >>> > > >>> I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you > > >>> further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told > > >>> Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > > >>> association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now > > >>> appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of > > >>> "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be wrong > > >>> but he could clarify. > > >>> > > >>> On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry > > >>> Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market > > >>> the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see > > >>> announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies > > >>> Act > > >>> ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company? I > > >>> found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and > > >>> OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella? > > >>> > > >>> On the links you sent onlist: > > >>> > > >>> <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> www.innovation-africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> > > >>> > > >>> Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET <http://innovation-africa.net/> > > >>> Registrar: TUCOWS INC. > > >>> Whois Server: whois.tucows.com <http://whois.tucows.com/> > > >>> Referral URL: <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/> http://domainhelp.opensrs.net <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/> > > >>> Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET <http://ultra103.uk2.net/> > > >>> Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET <http://ultra104.uk2.net/> > > >>> Status: redemptionPeriod > > >>> Updated Date: 24-jun-2008 > > >>> Creation Date: 14-may-2007 > > >>> Expiration Date: 14-may-2008 > > >>> > > >>> I tried <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> www.innovation-africa.co.ke <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/> >> was re-directing to >> > <http://www.kif.or.ke/> www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/> > > >>> ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion > > >>> Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct? > > >>> > > >>> What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background > > >>> when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how > > >>> representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in > > >>> trying to understand new and old associations' motives. > > >>> > > >>> With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy > > >>> participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement > > >>> involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs > > >>> abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Alex > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> --- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai > < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> From: kevit desai < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce > > >>>> in Kenya > > >>>> To: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com > > >>>> Cc: "'kictanet-lists'" > < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > > >>>> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM > > >>>> Hi Alex, > > >>>> > > >>>> I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can. > > >>>> > > >>>> Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and > > >>>> market segment > > >>>> associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence : > > >>>> KEPSA decisions > > >>>> are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from > > >>>> the private > > >>>> sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for > > >>>> membership in KEPSA, neither > > >>>> are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows > > >>>> the same approach > > >>>> for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and > > >>>> government agencies are > > >>>> member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR > > >>>> BASIS with all > > >>>> those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no > > >>>> obligation to > > >>>> offer service to non members. > > >>>> > > >>>> Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam > > >>>> Mwaura of KEPSA or > > >>>> Marcel Werner of KIF. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Kevit > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>> From: Alex Gakuru [mailto: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com] > > >>>> Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45 > > >>>> To: kevit desai > > >>>> Cc: kictanet-lists > > >>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > > >>>> e-Commerce in Kenya > > >>>> > > >>>> Kevit, > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions > > >>>> independence? > > >>>> The political issue here may be monopolization to the > > >>>> extent of clouding out > > >>>> other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory > > >>>> steps in. > > >>>> > > >>>> We investigate the effects of competition on subjects' > > >>>> attitude towards > > >>>> cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments > > >>>> with different > > >>>> degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no > > >>>> competition at all up > > >>>> to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute > > >>>> generously to a public > > >>>> project in the absence of competition, whereas they > > >>>> contribute very little > > >>>> in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A > > >>>> diminishing attitude > > >>>> towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of > > >>>> competition increases. > > >>>> Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the > > >>>> maximum degree of > > >>>> competition may be not efficient. > > >>>> > > >>>> > < <http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba > http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba > > >>>> 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb> > > >>>> > > >>>> react. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> --- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai > > >>>> < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> From: kevit desai > > >>>> < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > > >>>> e-Commerce in Kenya > > >>>>> To: <mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com > > >>>>> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke, "'KICTAnet ICT > > >>>> Policy Discussions'" > > >>>> < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > > >>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM > > >>>>> Hi Waudo, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other > > >>>>> association to full > > >>>>> membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful > > >>>>> partnership. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Kevit Desai > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> _____ > > >>>>> > > >>>>> From: waudo siganga > [mailto: <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com] > > >>>>> Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55 > > >>>>> To: Kevit Desai > > >>>>> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > > >>>>> Discussions' > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > > >>>>> e-Commerce in Kenya > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when > > >>>> handling > > >>>>> KEPSA and KIF at > > >>>>> the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to > > >>>> promote > > >>>>> KIF at the > > >>>>> expense of other associations. The explanation is very > > >>>>> simple: KEPSA was > > >>>>> formed as a focal point, a bringing together > > >>>> characterised > > >>>>> by INCLUSIVITY. > > >>>>> KIF on the other hand is an independent association > > >>>> and the > > >>>>> nature of such > > >>>>> an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership > > >>>>> mechanism). I would like > > >>>>> to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA > > >>>> ICT > > >>>>> Board, not just > > >>>>> KIF. Please give us space. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Waudo > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit > > >>>> Desai" > > >>>>> < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Hi Alex, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> KEPSA ( <mailto:info@kepsa.or.ke> info@kepsa.or.ke): private sector policy body > > >>>> with > > >>>>> its own governance > > >>>>> structure. Elected as a director in private capacity > > >>>> and as > > >>>>> KIF vice > > >>>>> chairman. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> KIF ( <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke): membership-based industry > > >>>>> association, member > > >>>>> of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Centurion Systems Ltd: ( <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> ) > > >>>>> private company, > > >>>>> director, member of KIF. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Governor - KEPSA > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Director - KEPSA > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Director - Innovation Africa > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Director- Kenya ICT Board > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation > > >>>>> > > >>>>> BOA - AIESEC > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Member - National Strategy for University Education > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP > > >>>> Kenya > > >>>>> > > >>>>> General Co-Chair - Africon 2009 > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Raphta Rd > > >>>>> > > >>>>> , Westlands - Nairobi > > >>>>> > > >>>>> P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 > > >>>>> 2049750 > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Mobile : +254 722 517067 > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> <http://www.ieee.org/> http://www.ieee.org <http://www.ieee.org/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> http://www.innovation-africa.net <http://www.innovation-africa.net/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> http://www.kepsa.or.ke <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> http://www.powerup.co.ke <http://www.powerup.co.ke/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> <http://www.aiesec.org/> http://www.aiesec.org <http://www.aiesec.org/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> http://www.africon2007.co.za <http://www.africon2007.co.za/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> <http://www.kif.or.ke/> http://www.kif.or.ke <http://www.kif.or.ke/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> htpp:// <http://www.ict.go.ke/> www.ict.go.ke <http://www.ict.go.ke/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> <http://www.globalcompact.org/> http://www.globalcompact.org <http://www.globalcompact.org/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> <http://www.undp.org/business/gsb> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>>> From: waudo siganga > [mailto: <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com] > > >>>>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM > > >>>>> To: kevit desai > > >>>>> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy > > >>>>> Discussions' > > >>>>> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for > > >>>>> e-Commerce in Kenya > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET > > >>>> I can > > >>>>> answer it on > > >>>>> > > >>>>> the same forum. I think the picture being painted > > >>>> about a > > >>>>> rosy situation > > >>>>> > > >>>>> including "collaboration" is simply not > > >>>> true. The > > >>>>> reason to be frank is > > >>>>> > > >>>>> that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other > > >>>>> association to > > >>>>> > > >>>>> have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government. > > >>>> Could > > >>>>> you as a > > >>>>> > > >>>>> KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations > > >>>>> including the > > >>>>> > > >>>>> major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute > > >>>> in > > >>>>> KEPSA? It can be > > >>>>> > > >>>>> sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to > > >>>> promote > > >>>>> KIF and crack > > >>>>> > > >>>>> down on those you feel are in the way. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Waudo > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit > > >>>> desai" > > >>>>> > > >>>>> < <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Hi Walu, > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA. > > >>>> I > > >>>>> would like to confirm > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We > > >>>> would > > >>>>> like to do a lot > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> more > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> and welcome more support. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our > > >>>> last > > >>>>> ministerial stakeholder > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> forum. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Collaboration is the way forward. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Kevit Desai > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> KEPSA Director > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> From: > > >>>>> > > >>>> > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com <http://centurionsystemsltd.com/> @lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/> > > >>>> ] > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> On Behalf Of waudo siganga > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02 > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> To: <mailto:kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy > > >>>>> Discussions > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and > > >>>> Regulation for > > >>>>> e-Commerce in > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Kenya > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on > > >>>> GPRS > > >>>>> somewhere in the > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the > > >>>> IT > > >>>>> (or ICT) Profession > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> on this list a few months ago. But the rather > > >>>>> unenthusiastic response I > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not > > >>>> the > > >>>>> correct list since > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> many of the subscribers appear just interested in > > >>>> ICT > > >>>>> Policy rather than > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two > > >>>> weeks > > >>>>> there will be another > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> list for professionals and you will be informed > > >>>> (you > > >>>>> have the > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing > > >>>> for a > > >>>>> registration board > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and > > >>>>> Procurement > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on > > >>>>> unheralded. All we need > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> is a champion or chanpions in the right place. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Waudo > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT), > > >>>> "John > > >>>>> Walubengo" > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> < <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> jwalu@yahoo.com> said: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> Marcel, > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> It looks like quite some work has been > > >>>> ongoing in > > >>>>> this > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was > > >>>>> restricted within KIF only? > > >>>>> I > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, > > >>>> Waudo r > > >>>>> u there?) or > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> Information Security Audit & Control > > >>>>> (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> mention some of the big IT Associations in > > >>>> Kenya > > >>>>> were involved. I beg to > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> be enlightened. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> This brings in an old question - who really > > >>>>> represents the IT Profession > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> in Kenya ? Shem has been on record as saying > > >>>> that > > >>>>> IT is the only > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with > > >>>> the > > >>>>> same authority as LSK > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> (Law Society of Kenya ), IEK (Institute of > > >>>>> Engineers of Kenya ), Medical > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> Practictioners Board amongst others to > > >>>> regulate > > >>>>> the IT Profession. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the > > >>>> bill > > >>>>> either (and has a > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> different objective anyway). But time has > > >>>> come > > >>>>> to really start thinking > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we > > >>>>> struggle to regulate the > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead > > >>>> on > > >>>>> this, but they have been > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> awfully quite except when they award prizes > > >>>> at > > >>>>> the end of the year > > >>>>> (Waudo > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had > > >>>> to > > >>>>> say it!). > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective > > >>>> particularly > > >>>>> in the Manufacturing > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been > > >>>> as > > >>>>> effective - particularly > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the > > >>>> IT > > >>>>> industry has been 'cloudy' > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> for lack of a better word...Can for example > > >>>> CSK > > >>>>> or ISACA be part of > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again > > >>>> need to > > >>>>> be enlightened. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just > > >>>> thinking > > >>>>> loudly and saying that as > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> we think of regulating electronic > > >>>> transactions, > > >>>>> we also need to > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> simultaneously start regulating the IT > > >>>>> profession..but maybe I am wrong. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> Particularly because regulation can and > > >>>> often > > >>>>> leads to suppression... > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> walu. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner > > >>>>> < <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com> marcelcwerner@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> From: Marcel Werner > > >>>>> < <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com> marcelcwerner@gmail.com> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and > > >>>>> Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> To: <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> jwalu@yahoo.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Cc: <mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke> secretariat@kif.or.ke, > > >>>> "KICTAnet > > >>>>> ICT Policy Discussions" > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> < <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Legislation and Regulation for > > >>>> e-Commerce in > > >>>>> Kenya > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing > > >>>> Note # > > >>>>> 3 - Report - > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Public Panel 19 > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> June 2008 > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will > > >>>> add > > >>>>> at least one > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> percent point growth > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> to Kenya 's overall economic growth > > >>>>> within five years. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> This is contingent > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> upon the adoption of legislation that > > >>>>> supports electronic > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> transactions. * Kenya , > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> as an emerging economy and regional > > >>>> leader, > > >>>>> lags behind in > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> having a legal > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The > > >>>>> current situation is > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> an anachronism > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> hampering national development, placing > > >>>>> provincial centres > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> at a > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> disadvantage, and harming global > > >>>>> competitiveness. Both > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> external and internal > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> trade require the new framework.The > > >>>> Kenyan > > >>>>> private sector > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> strongly supports > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as > > >>>>> legislation of the > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Information and > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Communication Technology sector that > > >>>>> guarantees an open > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> market and promotes > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> innovation. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation > > >>>>> supporting > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> electronic transactions > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> represents the single most powerful > > >>>>> innovation opportunity > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> in the legal > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> framework of the ICT sector. > > >>>> Legislation is > > >>>>> needed to: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by > > >>>>> recognizing an > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> electronic signature > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r > > >>> < KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> kictanet mailing list > > >>> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > > >>> > <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > >>> > > >>> This message was sent to: <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com > > >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at > <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe@gmail.com> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe@gmail.com> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> kictanet mailing list > > >> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > > >> <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > >> > > >> This message was sent to: <mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com> emailsignet@mailcan.com > > >> Unsubscribe or change your options at > > >> > <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet@mailcan.co m> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.c <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet@mailcan.c> om > > > People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work > > > (Confucius). > > > > People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius). > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: <mailto:jmanthi@gmail.com> jmanthi@gmail.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at > <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi@gmail.com> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmail.com <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi@gmail.com> > > > > > -- > Joseph Manthi > CEO > MEO Ltd > <http://www.meoltd.com/> http://www.meoltd.com <http://www.meoltd.com/> > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at > <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe@gmail.com> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe@gmail.com> > > > > > -- > Brian Munyao Longwe > e-mail: <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com > cell: + 254 722 518 744 > blog : <http://zinjlog.blogspot.com/> http://zinjlog.blogspot.com <http://zinjlog.blogspot.com/> > meta-blog: <http://mashilingi.blogspot.com/> http://mashilingi.blogspot.com <http://mashilingi.blogspot.com/> > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: <mailto:alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at > <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alexgakuru.lists@gmail .com> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alexgakuru.lists%40gmai <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alexgakuru.lists@gmai> l.com > > _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: <mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com> marcelcwerner@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/marcelcwerner@gmail.co m> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/marcelcwerner%40gmail.c om <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/marcelcwerner@gmail.co m> -- MARCEL please send any business mail to: <mailto:Marcel.Werner@innovation-africa.or.ke> Marcel.Werner@innovation-africa.or.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: <mailto:blongwe@gmail.com> blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe@gmail.com> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe@gmail.com> People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work (Confucius). _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kiriinya2000%40yahoo.co m
participants (14)
-
Alex Gakuru -
Aquinas Wasike -
Bill Kagai -
bitange＠jambo.co.ke -
Brian Longwe -
Brian Munyao Longwe
-
Brian Munyao Longwe -
David Otwoma -
Gilda Odera -
Joseph Manthi -
kevit desai -
Mike Theuri -
Tim Rick -
waudo siganga