What is affordable might not always be sustainable. The government should work on ways of slashing prices for new hardware instead of encouraging dumping of used PCs in our schools. Its unfortunate that third world countries have been used as dumping sites for obsolete technologies. ________________________________ From: waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> To: muoki <muokis@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:03:34 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Affordable computers Evans - I share ur concern. These things should be done in consultation with those affected rather than just being directives. Waudo On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:56 -0400, "Evans Ikua" <ikua@lpakenya.org> wrote:

Dear listers, I have reliably learnt that the Uganda Government banned he importation of used computers in that country in the last budget.

Then I remember that the PS, Dr Ndemo, said that the reason why we are paying 25% duty on used computers in Kenya is because there is an East African protocol that demands that used computers must be taxed.

I also remember that the PS has in various fora indicated that its in the best interest of his Ministry and the country to put as much hardware in the hands of the people as possible.

Having observed in the past that this 25% duty on used computers runs counter to OUR strategy to become an ICT powerhouse globally, its now clear that we must break from any agreements that we have with our neighbours that do not tie in with our own strategies. For instance, if Uganda bans used computers, will we be bound to follow suit? What if they don't have similar strategies or objectives and they don't care about having their citizens access computers?.

Haven't we already done this as far as used motor vehicles are concerned? whereas our neighbours have an age limit of 10 years, we have stuck to our 8 years and the community is still strong.

-- Evans Ikua, Chairman, Linux Professional Association of Kenya Tel: +254-20-2250381, Cell: +254-722 955 831 Eagle House, 2nd Floor Kimathi Street, Opp. Corner House www.lpakenya.org

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Listers Evans has raised a pertinent issue, we might not have made some of the strides we have achieved in the sector without the used computers, on the other hand there is an environmental concern that is valid, this calls for a multistakeholder approach to create a win win situation for our local business men (Remember the used car parts issue that sprang up early this year), NGO and any other organisation involved in the importation process, may be its time KEBS got involved in the process, reading through Bills email i am of the opinion that there might be some imbalance in the way the importation of the computers is handled, by the way i had there is a facility for disposing off e-waste in Dandora, maybe Mr Tom Musili could shed some light on the issue, i wish we had statistics to help in evaluating the impact of the used computers. Let the debate continue.. On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Bildad Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

On Aug 28, 2009, at 8:12 AM, Victor Gathara wrote:

I am thinking here of donations of used computers that can make their way into the country through a regulated and monitored channel (such as ComputerAid) who will also have responsibility to ensure EOL disposal according to WEEE standards to prevent dumping of electronic waste.

Victor, In your position, you know very well that these second had computers are not donations. You can ask Tony Roberts how much he is paid to dispose a computer from Barclays in UK, that eventually finds its way to a school in Mau. And the Mau school pays for shipping and other costs....but besides all these politics......DFID might consider to fund a specific study comparing the final 'landed' cost of a dumped computer versus a 'clone' assembled with new parts at Crescent Technologies or JKUAT taking into consideration the kazi kwa vijana created....if it has not been done already. PS. I am speaking as a 'contributor' to this mess here, because I also have problems disposing my old computers and printers in the office. Most of the times, its easier to take them to a school in shags that cannot afford the electricity bills of running them...and... just live with the guilt like everyone else despite being labeled as The Hero who brought us computers.

One reason IBM sold its hardware unit was because Moores Law states over time, the cost of hardware approaches zero and the cost of power consumption and capacity of the hardware doubles every 18 months. Thus, bringing 5 year old computers to Kenya only drains too much power when we should strive to bring consumption per watt down. At least, just based on power consumption alone, dumped computer should never see the 'light of day' at the Kenyan port if locally assembled computers will consume half of the wattage today....especially now when everyone is striving to go green.

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000868.html

Google, for example, has watched its energy consumption almost double during the past three generations of upgrades to its sprawling computing infrastructure. *It recently unveiled a major new datacenter site in a remote part of Oregon, where power costs are a fraction of those at Google's home base in Silicon Valley.* But cheap power may not be enough. Last year, Google engineer Luiz Andr� Barroso predicted that energy costs would dwarf equipment costs -- "possibly by a large margin" -- if power-hungry datacenters didn't mend their ways. Barroso went on to warn that datacenters' growing appetite for power "could have serious consequences for the overall affordability of computing, not to mention the overall health of the planet."

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We have to start somewhere. Bringing in used computers is a simple and effective way to bring computing power into schools and villages. Yes, Computers for Schools Kenya does charge for these computers (too much if you ask me in comparison to other groups doing the same), and yet the schools pay for them so they can give their students a fighting chance at joining the knowledge economy. We need to consider the welfare of our young people before we sell out to the "new" game as Uganda has. Can Kenya really afford to equip ALL of our classrooms with brand new computers? And has anyone considered the monopoly given to Microsoft when we push for only new equipment? The license fees involved for software? There is a lot more to consider than simply e-waste. Crystal On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Areba Collins <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:

I cant believe this, are you guys actually arguing that having no computer is better than having one that is old, consumes lots of power and has only a few years left in it? Cause as far as the rest of it is concerned, quality is a function of competition.

...

Listers Evans has raised a pertinent issue, we might not have made some of the strides we have achieved in the sector without the used computers, on the other hand there is an environmental concern that is valid, this calls for a multistakeholder approach to create a win win situation for our local business men (Remember the used car parts issue that sprang up early this year), NGO and any other organisation involved in the importation

...

may be its time KEBS got involved in the process, reading through Bills email i am of the opinion that there might be some imbalance in the way

On 8/28/09, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote: process, the

...

importation of the computers is handled, by the way i had there is a facility for disposing off e-waste in Dandora, maybe Mr Tom Musili could shed some light on the issue, i wish we had statistics to help in evaluating the impact of the used computers. Let the debate continue..

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Bildad Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Aug 28, 2009, at 8:12 AM, Victor Gathara wrote:

I am thinking here of donations of used computers that can make their way into the country through a regulated and monitored channel (such as ComputerAid) who will also have responsibility to ensure EOL disposal according to WEEE standards to prevent dumping of electronic waste.

Victor, In your position, you know very well that these second had computers are not donations. You can ask Tony Roberts how much he is paid to dispose a computer from Barclays in UK, that eventually finds its way to a school

in

...

Mau. And the Mau school pays for shipping and other costs....but besides all these politics......DFID might consider to fund a specific study comparing the final 'landed' cost of a dumped computer versus a 'clone' assembled with new parts at Crescent Technologies or JKUAT taking into consideration the kazi kwa vijana created....if it has not been done already. PS. I am speaking as a 'contributor' to this mess here, because I also have problems disposing my old computers and printers in the office. Most of the times, its easier to take them to a school in shags that cannot afford the electricity bills of running them...and... just live with the guilt like everyone else despite being labeled as The Hero who brought us computers.

One reason IBM sold its hardware unit was because Moores Law states over time, the cost of hardware approaches zero and the cost of power consumption and capacity of the hardware doubles every 18 months. Thus, bringing 5 year old computers to Kenya only drains too much power when we should strive to bring consumption per watt down. At least, just based on power consumption alone, dumped computer should never see the 'light of day' at the Kenyan port if locally assembled computers will consume half of the wattage today....especially now when everyone is striving to go green.

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000868.html

Google, for example, has watched its energy consumption almost double during the past three generations of upgrades to its sprawling computing infrastructure. *It recently unveiled a major new datacenter site in a remote part of Oregon, where power costs are a fraction of those at Google's home base in Silicon Valley.* But cheap power may not be enough. Last year, Google engineer Luiz Andr� Barroso predicted that energy costs would dwarf equipment costs -- "possibly by a large margin" -- if power-hungry datacenters didn't mend their ways. Barroso went on to warn that datacenters' growing appetite for power "could have serious consequences for the overall affordability of computing, not to mention the overall health of the planet."

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...

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-- Its Possible! http://www.itspossible.afraha.com

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-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/ "You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi

One organization, Camara, is bringing in computers and charges the end user 5,000 Ksh each. They are distributed on the Ubuntu Open Source platform. They also provide follow up services. At 5,000 Ksh each with a fully functional operating system, that blows new computers out of the water. With the lower computing demands of Open Source systems the schools save money on both hardware and software. If they had to purchase new computers it would be at least 20,000 Ksh each plus they would have to buy upgrades on the Microsoft software. Using Open Source gives the computers a longer lifespan, especially those without complex requirements such as the basic functions necessary to teach the basic to students. The used computers do not require higher power consumption than a new desktop. As a matter of fact since they come from corporate donations, the computers are usually less than 2 years old. When looking at socio-economic development, the younger we can provide access to the computers the more potential we have of being able to compete in the knowledge economy. Forcing institutions on already tight budgets to purchase brand new equipment is foolish. Every school in Kenya needs to have computers and until that occurs we need to facilitate cost effective measures for implementation. Crystal On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:

Crystal the term "affordable" is relative in the context of Socio - economic development, could you elaborate on your position?

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Crystal Watley Kigoni < crystal@voicesofafrica.org> wrote:

...

We have to start somewhere. Bringing in used computers is a simple and effective way to bring computing power into schools and villages. Yes, Computers for Schools Kenya does charge for these computers (too much if you ask me in comparison to other groups doing the same), and yet the schools pay for them so they can give their students a fighting chance at joining the knowledge economy. We need to consider the welfare of our young people before we sell out to the "new" game as Uganda has. Can Kenya really afford to equip ALL of our classrooms with brand new computers? And has anyone considered the monopoly given to Microsoft when we push for only new equipment? The license fees involved for software? There is a lot more to consider than simply e-waste. Crystal

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Areba Collins <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:

...

I cant believe this, are you guys actually arguing that having no computer is better than having one that is old, consumes lots of power and has only a few years left in it? Cause as far as the rest of it is concerned, quality is a function of competition.

...

Listers Evans has raised a pertinent issue, we might not have made some of the strides we have achieved in the sector without the used computers, on the other hand there is an environmental concern that is valid, this calls for a multistakeholder approach to create a win win situation for our local business men (Remember the used car parts issue that sprang up early

...

year), NGO and any other organisation involved in the importation

...

may be its time KEBS got involved in the process, reading through Bills email i am of the opinion that there might be some imbalance in the way

...

importation of the computers is handled, by the way i had there is a facility for disposing off e-waste in Dandora, maybe Mr Tom Musili could shed some light on the issue, i wish we had statistics to help in evaluating the impact of the used computers. Let the debate continue..

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Bildad Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Aug 28, 2009, at 8:12 AM, Victor Gathara wrote:

I am thinking here of donations of used computers that can make their way into the country through a regulated and monitored channel (such as ComputerAid) who will also have responsibility to ensure EOL disposal according to WEEE standards to prevent dumping of electronic waste.

Victor, In your position, you know very well that these second had computers

are

...

not donations. You can ask Tony Roberts how much he is paid to dispose a computer from Barclays in UK, that eventually finds its way to a school in Mau. And the Mau school pays for shipping and other costs....but besides all these politics......DFID might consider to fund a specific study comparing the final 'landed' cost of a dumped computer versus a 'clone' assembled with new parts at Crescent Technologies or JKUAT taking into consideration the kazi kwa vijana created....if it has not been done already. PS. I am speaking as a 'contributor' to this mess here, because I also have problems disposing my old computers and printers in the office. Most of the times, its easier to take them to a school in shags that cannot afford the electricity bills of running them...and... just live with the guilt like everyone else despite being labeled as The Hero who brought us computers.

One reason IBM sold its hardware unit was because Moores Law states over time, the cost of hardware approaches zero and the cost of power consumption and capacity of the hardware doubles every 18 months. Thus, bringing 5 year old computers to Kenya only drains too much power when we should strive to bring consumption per watt down. At least, just based on power consumption alone, dumped computer should never see the 'light of day' at the Kenyan port if locally assembled computers will consume half of the wattage today....especially now when everyone is striving to go green.

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000868.html

Google, for example, has watched its energy consumption almost double during the past three generations of upgrades to its sprawling computing infrastructure. *It recently unveiled a major new datacenter site in a remote part of Oregon, where power costs are a fraction of those at Google's home base in Silicon Valley.* But cheap power may not be enough. Last year, Google engineer Luiz Andr� Barroso predicted that energy costs would dwarf equipment costs -- "possibly by a large margin" -- if

On 8/28/09, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote: this process, the power-hungry

...

...

datacenters didn't mend their ways. Barroso went on to warn that datacenters' growing appetite for power "could have serious consequences for the overall affordability of computing, not to mention the overall health of the planet."

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...

-- Barrack O. Otieno Administrative Manager Afriregister Ltd (Ke) P.o.Box 21682 Nairobi 00100 Tel: +254721325277 +254733206359 Riara Road, Bamboo Lane www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar.

-- Its Possible! http://www.itspossible.afraha.com

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"You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi

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-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/ "You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi

Camara does excellent work in 6 African countries. In Kenya they have been focusing on Mombasa and the Coast but are about to spread out into other provinces. If anyone is interested in setting up a computer center email ali@camara.ie. Many blessings, Crystal On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:36 PM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:

HI,

I can confirm that Camara does excellent work in UG.

If you need the contact for the EA rep, ping me off list, I have her details.

-- Cheers,

McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel

...

One organization, Camara, is bringing in computers and charges the end user 5,000 Ksh each. They are distributed on the Ubuntu Open Source platform. They also provide follow up services. At 5,000 Ksh each with a fully functional operating system, that blows new computers out of the water. With the lower computing demands of Open Source systems the schools save money on both hardware and software. If they had to purchase new computers it would be at least 20,000 Ksh each plus they would have to buy upgrades on the Microsoft software. Using Open Source gives the computers a longer

...

especially those without complex requirements such as the basic functions necessary to teach the basic to students. The used computers do not require higher power consumption than a new desktop. As a matter of fact since

...

come from corporate donations, the computers are usually less than 2 years old. When looking at socio-economic development, the younger we can provide access to the computers the more potential we have of being able to compete in the knowledge economy. Forcing institutions on already tight budgets to purchase brand new equipment is foolish. Every school in Kenya needs to have computers and until that occurs we need to facilitate cost effective measures for implementation. Crystal

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Barrack Otieno < otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Crystal the term "affordable" is relative in the context of Socio - economic development, could you elaborate on your position?

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Crystal Watley Kigoni <crystal@voicesofafrica.org> wrote:

...

We have to start somewhere. Bringing in used computers is a simple and effective way to bring computing power into schools and villages. Yes, Computers for Schools Kenya does charge for these computers (too much

if you

...

...

ask me in comparison to other groups doing the same), and yet the schools pay for them so they can give their students a fighting chance at joining the knowledge economy. We need to consider the welfare of our young

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Crystal Watley Kigoni<crystal@voicesofafrica.org> wrote: lifespan, they people

...

...

...

before we sell out to the "new" game as Uganda has. Can Kenya really afford to equip ALL of our classrooms with brand new computers? And has anyone considered the monopoly given to Microsoft when we push for only new equipment? The license fees involved for software? There is a lot more to consider than simply e-waste. Crystal

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Areba Collins < arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I cant believe this, are you guys actually arguing that having no computer is better than having one that is old, consumes lots of power and has only a few years left in it? Cause as far as the rest of it is concerned, quality is a function of competition.

On 8/28/09, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Listers Evans has raised a pertinent issue, we might not have made some of the strides we have achieved in the sector without the used

computers,

...

...

on the other hand there is an environmental concern that is valid, this calls for a multistakeholder approach to create a win win situation for our local business men (Remember the used car parts issue that sprang up early this year), NGO and any other organisation involved in the importation process, may be its time KEBS got involved in the process, reading through Bills email i am of the opinion that there might be some imbalance in the way the importation of the computers is handled, by the way i had there is a facility for disposing off e-waste in Dandora, maybe Mr Tom Musili could shed some light on the issue, i wish we had statistics to help in evaluating the impact of the used computers. Let the debate continue..

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Bildad Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com

...

...

...

...

wrote:

> > On Aug 28, 2009, at 8:12 AM, Victor Gathara wrote: > > I am thinking here of donations of used computers that can > make their way into the country through a regulated and monitored > channel (such as ComputerAid) who will also have responsibility to > ensure EOL disposal according to WEEE standards to prevent dumping of > electronic waste. > > > Victor, > In your position, you know very well that these second had computers > are > not donations. You can ask Tony Roberts how much he is paid to > dispose a > computer from Barclays in UK, that eventually finds its way to a > school in > Mau. And the Mau school pays for shipping and other costs....but > besides > all these politics......DFID > might consider to fund a specific study comparing the final 'landed' > cost > of > a dumped computer versus a 'clone' assembled with new parts at > Crescent > Technologies or JKUAT taking into consideration the kazi kwa vijana > created....if it has not been done already. PS. I am speaking as a > 'contributor' to this mess here, because I also have problems > disposing my > old computers and printers in the office. Most of the times, its > easier to > take them to a school in shags that cannot afford the electricity > bills of > running them...and... just live with the guilt like everyone else > despite > being labeled as The Hero who brought us computers. > > One reason IBM sold its hardware unit was because Moores Law states > over > time, the cost of hardware approaches zero and the cost of power > consumption > and capacity of the hardware doubles every 18 months. Thus, bringing > 5 > year > old computers to Kenya only drains too much power when we should > strive to > bring consumption per watt down. At least, just based on power > consumption > alone, dumped computer should never see the 'light of day' at the > Kenyan > port if locally assembled computers will consume half of the wattage > today....especially now when everyone is striving to go green. > > http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000868.html > > Google, for example, has watched its energy consumption almost double > during the past three generations of upgrades to its sprawling > computing > infrastructure. *It recently unveiled a major new datacenter site in > a > remote part of Oregon, where power costs are a fraction of those at > Google's > home base in Silicon Valley.* But cheap power may not be enough. Last > year, Google engineer Luiz Andr� Barroso predicted that energy costs > would > dwarf equipment costs -- "possibly by a large margin" -- if > power-hungry > datacenters didn't mend their ways. Barroso went on to warn that > datacenters' growing appetite for power "could have serious > consequences > for > the overall affordability of computing, not to mention the overall > health > of > the planet." > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: otieno.barrack@gmail.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail.... > >

-- Barrack O. Otieno Administrative Manager Afriregister Ltd (Ke) P.o.Box 21682 Nairobi 00100 Tel: +254721325277 +254733206359 Riara Road, Bamboo Lane www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar.

-- Its Possible! http://www.itspossible.afraha.com

Collins Areba Omwoyo +254 735 824872 / +254 720 516758 arebacollins[at]gmail[dot]com

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"You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi

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-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/

"You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi

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...

-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/ "You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi

"Affordability" is loosely being used in the discussion below. PCs mentioned in the discussion below has limitations if one has to go through the current curriculum requirements of any course on computers. Do the programming in our today's courses adequately served by "Pentium 3, 633 MHz, 10GB"? Consider the rural day schools perhaps who have gotten donation of these equipment: power requirements (shift by a factor of 6 i.e. school paying 5,000 per month now ends up paying 38,000 per month on electricity), maintenance (for urban affluent, this is no major problem, coz kids can be told to bring 2,000 per year for this purpose; again we are discussing access for education opportunities to all, particularly those in the vulnerable groups and rural areas), digital content availability (way to go is use of open standard compliant content - > the reality is that very few of these are within reach, leaving current content -> Cyber Schools, KIE Launched Content, LearnThings SA etc largely dependent on power PCs; Do we have to discriminate learners/consumers because of technology use?), e-waste as an issue (I know few institutions, like Computer for Schools Kenya, JKUAT, ICT Trust Fund, who are working on establishing mechanism for recycling old equipment, and considering diminished parts variety for replacing faulty ones, the future of "Pentium 3, 633 MHz, 10GB" indeed is likely to introduce new challenges of e-waste, why? Coz of limited options for repairing those PCs; Already a number of schools have rooms filled with P2 and P3s which no vendor can currently support, worst being schools in the rural areas). Plus capacity building needs and those of enabling environment for collaboration of citizens (connectivity and necessary infrastructure and/or legal regime -> Thanks for MoIC efforts). I believe total cost of ownership on considering Affordability of PCs is critical. Kind regards B. K. Sang MOE/ICT -----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+bksang=education.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bksang=education.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Areba Collins Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:35 PM To: Barnabas K. Sang Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] My Take: Affordable computers Pentium 3, 633mhz, 10gb, 15' crt, keyboard, mouse, commercially retails at about ksh 4500, and is sufficient in my opinion to learn programming, surf the net and do basic office work. Give me a 'new pc's ' initiative and ill abandon my crusade. Worse (or better ) still, dell optiplex 3.0ghz 2gb cpu, 25k, ten thin clients and you have a classroom with less than the cost of a new pc, tell me just how this is not affording power to the masses. On 8/28/09, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

Crystal the term "affordable" is relative in the context of Socio - economic development, could you elaborate on your position?

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Crystal Watley Kigoni < crystal@voicesofafrica.org> wrote:

...

We have to start somewhere. Bringing in used computers is a simple and effective way to bring computing power into schools and villages. Yes, Computers for Schools Kenya does charge for these computers (too much if you ask me in comparison to other groups doing the same), and yet the schools pay for them so they can give their students a fighting chance at joining the knowledge economy. We need to consider the welfare of our young people before we sell out to the "new" game as Uganda has. Can Kenya really afford to equip ALL of our classrooms with brand new computers? And has anyone considered the monopoly given to Microsoft when we push for only new equipment? The license fees involved for software? There is a lot more to consider than simply e-waste. Crystal

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Areba Collins <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:

...

I cant believe this, are you guys actually arguing that having no computer is better than having one that is old, consumes lots of power and has only a few years left in it? Cause as far as the rest of it is concerned, quality is a function of competition.

...

Listers Evans has raised a pertinent issue, we might not have made some of the strides we have achieved in the sector without the used computers, on the other hand there is an environmental concern that is valid, this calls for a multistakeholder approach to create a win win situation for our local business men (Remember the used car parts issue that sprang up early

...

year), NGO and any other organisation involved in the importation

...

may be its time KEBS got involved in the process, reading through Bills email i am of the opinion that there might be some imbalance in the way

...

importation of the computers is handled, by the way i had there is a facility for disposing off e-waste in Dandora, maybe Mr Tom Musili could shed some light on the issue, i wish we had statistics to help in evaluating the impact of the used computers. Let the debate continue..

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Bildad Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Aug 28, 2009, at 8:12 AM, Victor Gathara wrote:

I am thinking here of donations of used computers that can make their way into the country through a regulated and monitored channel (such as ComputerAid) who will also have responsibility to ensure EOL disposal according to WEEE standards to prevent dumping of electronic waste.

Victor, In your position, you know very well that these second had computers

are

...

not donations. You can ask Tony Roberts how much he is paid to dispose a computer from Barclays in UK, that eventually finds its way to a school in Mau. And the Mau school pays for shipping and other costs....but besides all these politics......DFID might consider to fund a specific study comparing the final 'landed' cost of a dumped computer versus a 'clone' assembled with new parts at Crescent Technologies or JKUAT taking into consideration the kazi kwa vijana created....if it has not been done already. PS. I am speaking as a 'contributor' to this mess here, because I also have problems disposing my old computers and printers in the office. Most of the times, its easier to take them to a school in shags that cannot afford the electricity bills of running them...and... just live with the guilt like everyone else despite being labeled as The Hero who brought us computers.

One reason IBM sold its hardware unit was because Moores Law states over time, the cost of hardware approaches zero and the cost of power consumption and capacity of the hardware doubles every 18 months. Thus, bringing 5 year old computers to Kenya only drains too much power when we should strive to bring consumption per watt down. At least, just based on power consumption alone, dumped computer should never see the 'light of day' at the Kenyan port if locally assembled computers will consume half of the wattage today....especially now when everyone is striving to go green.

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000868.html

Google, for example, has watched its energy consumption almost double during the past three generations of upgrades to its sprawling computing infrastructure. *It recently unveiled a major new datacenter site in a remote part of Oregon, where power costs are a fraction of those at Google's home base in Silicon Valley.* But cheap power may not be enough. Last year, Google engineer Luiz Andr� Barroso predicted that energy costs would dwarf equipment costs -- "possibly by a large margin" -- if

On 8/28/09, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote: this process, the power-hungry

...

...

datacenters didn't mend their ways. Barroso went on to warn that datacenters' growing appetite for power "could have serious consequences for the overall affordability of computing, not to mention the overall health of the planet."

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: otieno.barrack@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at

http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail....

...

-- Barrack O. Otieno Administrative Manager Afriregister Ltd (Ke) P.o.Box 21682 Nairobi 00100 Tel: +254721325277 +254733206359 Riara Road, Bamboo Lane www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar.

-- Its Possible! http://www.itspossible.afraha.com

Collins Areba Omwoyo +254 735 824872 / +254 720 516758 arebacollins[at]gmail[dot]com

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This message was sent to: crystal@voicesofafrica.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/crystal%40voicesofafric...

-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/

"You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

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-- Barrack O. Otieno Administrative Manager Afriregister Ltd (Ke) P.o.Box 21682 Nairobi 00100 Tel: +254721325277 +254733206359 Riara Road, Bamboo Lane www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar.

-- Its Possible! http://www.itspossible.afraha.com Collins Areba Omwoyo +254 735 824872 / +254 720 516758 arebacollins[at]gmail[dot]com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: bksang@education.go.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bksang%40education.go.k...

Barnabas, In Australia, they would tell u... Legend, legend, dead set legend. You cannot get higher praise than that from an Australian..... On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Barnabas K. Sang<bksang@education.go.ke> wrote:

Collins,

Again, people talk of licenses as a limitation on affordable framework for provision of content to stakeholders. Recalling, my mention in this forum on Ministry of Education's experience to have open source school solutions (content/ SMS) for deploying in more than our 210 Secondary Schools Countrywide, still no bidder has succeeded in getting help from any solutions providers.

Ministry of Education and Government in general (National ICT Policy, E-Government Strategy, Education Sessional Paper No 1 of 2005), is in a position to discuss modalities of ensuring open standards (educational) solutions are implemented in all sectors. Many people quote availability (yes they are available out there) but someone has to get them here locally. Perhaps our institutions of higher learning should take a lead in this area.

All positive comments in the discussion below are indeed worth considering in all strategies/action plans possible.

Kind Regards

-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+bksang=education.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bksang=education.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Areba Collins Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:35 PM To: Barnabas K. Sang Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] My Take: Affordable computers

Pentium 3, 633mhz, 10gb, 15' crt, keyboard, mouse, commercially retails at about ksh 4500, and is sufficient in my opinion to learn programming, surf the net and do basic office work. Give me a 'new pc's ' initiative and ill abandon my crusade. Worse (or better ) still, dell optiplex 3.0ghz 2gb cpu, 25k, ten thin clients and you have a classroom with less than the cost of a new pc, tell me just how this is not affording power to the masses.

On 8/28/09, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Crystal the term "affordable" is relative in the context of Socio - economic development, could you elaborate on your position?

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Crystal Watley Kigoni < crystal@voicesofafrica.org> wrote:

...

We have to start somewhere. Bringing in used computers is a simple and effective way to bring computing power into schools and villages. Yes, Computers for Schools Kenya does charge for these computers (too much if you ask me in comparison to other groups doing the same), and yet the schools pay for them so they can give their students a fighting chance at joining the knowledge economy. We need to consider the welfare of our young people before we sell out to the "new" game as Uganda has. Can Kenya really afford to equip ALL of our classrooms with brand new computers? And has anyone considered the monopoly given to Microsoft when we push for only new equipment? The license fees involved for software? There is a lot more to consider than simply e-waste. Crystal

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Areba Collins <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:

...

I cant believe this, are you guys actually arguing that having no computer is better than having one that is old, consumes lots of power and has only a few years left in it?  Cause as far as the rest of it is concerned, quality is a function of competition.

...

Listers Evans has raised a pertinent issue, we might not have made some of the strides we have achieved in the sector without the used computers, on the other hand there is an environmental concern that is valid, this calls for a multistakeholder approach to create a win win situation for our local business men (Remember the used car parts issue that sprang up early

...

year), NGO and any other organisation involved in the importation

...

may be its time KEBS got involved in the process, reading through Bills email i am of the opinion that there might be some imbalance in the way

...

importation of the computers is handled, by the way i had there is a facility for disposing off e-waste in Dandora, maybe Mr Tom Musili could shed some light on the issue, i wish we had statistics to help in evaluating the impact of the used computers. Let the debate continue..

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Bildad Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Aug 28, 2009, at 8:12 AM, Victor Gathara wrote:

 I am thinking here of donations of used computers that can make their way into the country through a regulated and monitored channel (such as ComputerAid) who will also have responsibility to ensure EOL disposal according to WEEE standards to prevent dumping of electronic waste.

Victor, In your position, you know very well that these second had computers

are

...

not donations. You can ask Tony Roberts how much he is paid to dispose a computer from Barclays in UK, that eventually finds its way to a school in Mau. And the Mau school pays for shipping and other costs....but besides all these politics......DFID might consider to fund a specific study comparing the final 'landed' cost of a dumped computer versus a 'clone' assembled with new parts at Crescent Technologies or JKUAT taking into consideration the kazi kwa vijana created....if it has not been done already. PS. I am speaking as a 'contributor' to this mess here, because I also have problems disposing my old computers and printers in the office. Most of the times, its easier to take them to a school in shags that cannot afford the electricity bills of running them...and... just live with the guilt like everyone else despite being labeled as The Hero who brought us computers.

One reason IBM sold its hardware unit was because Moores Law states over time, the cost of hardware approaches zero and the cost of power consumption and capacity of the hardware doubles every 18 months.  Thus, bringing 5 year old computers to Kenya only drains too much power when we should strive to bring consumption per watt down. At least, just based on power consumption alone, dumped computer should never see the 'light of day' at the Kenyan port if locally assembled computers will consume half of the wattage today....especially now when everyone is striving to go green.

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000868.html

Google, for example, has watched its energy consumption almost double during the past three generations of upgrades to its sprawling computing infrastructure. *It recently unveiled a major new datacenter site in a remote part of Oregon, where power costs are a fraction of those at Google's home base in Silicon Valley.* But cheap power may not be enough. Last year, Google engineer Luiz Andr� Barroso predicted that energy costs would dwarf equipment costs -- "possibly by a large margin" -- if

On 8/28/09, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote: this process, the power-hungry

...

...

datacenters didn't mend their ways. Barroso went on to warn that datacenters' growing appetite for power "could have serious consequences for the overall affordability of computing, not to mention the overall health of the planet."

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: otieno.barrack@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at

http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail....

...

-- Barrack O. Otieno Administrative Manager Afriregister Ltd (Ke) P.o.Box 21682 Nairobi 00100 Tel: +254721325277 +254733206359 Riara Road, Bamboo Lane www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar.

-- Its Possible! http://www.itspossible.afraha.com

Collins Areba Omwoyo +254 735 824872 / +254 720 516758 arebacollins[at]gmail[dot]com

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: crystal@voicesofafrica.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/crystal%40voicesofafric...

-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/

"You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: otieno.barrack@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail....

-- Barrack O. Otieno Administrative Manager Afriregister Ltd (Ke) P.o.Box 21682 Nairobi 00100 Tel: +254721325277 +254733206359 Riara Road, Bamboo Lane www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar.

Ill give a classical example mr sang on cost of ownership. I was in one of the seven public universities that had most of its machines running nt4, are now running open suse because of an 'incident' . As far as content is concerned, i am sure you can get adequate responses / suggestions if you cross post this with the skunkworks list where more people on the ground can share their experiences with the foss scenario. About the p3 machine specs being suitable for learning programming, the ones we learnt on were slower and as far as i remember, not much has changed in the sylabus to warrant processing power. Assembler, fotran (talk of relevance), pascal , vb and other foundational languages hardly consume much. On 8/28/09, Barnabas K. Sang <bksang@education.go.ke> wrote:

Hi Bill,

Australia and other Asia Countries has gone in that direction. Legend, legend, dead set legend.

As a country, and more particularly with affordable connectivity rates (hopefully), we will be able to deploy solutions and come up with policies that encourage local adoption and developments on open standards.

Best regards

-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+bksang=education.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bksang=education.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Bill Kagai Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 4:41 PM To: Barnabas K. Sang Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] My Take: Affordable computers

Barnabas,

In Australia, they would tell u...

Legend, legend, dead set legend.

You cannot get higher praise than that from an Australian.....

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Barnabas K. Sang<bksang@education.go.ke> wrote:

...

Collins,

Again, people talk of licenses as a limitation on affordable framework for provision of content to stakeholders. Recalling, my mention in this forum on Ministry of Education's experience to have open source school solutions (content/ SMS) for deploying in more than our 210 Secondary Schools Countrywide, still no bidder has succeeded in getting help from any solutions providers.

Ministry of Education and Government in general (National ICT Policy, E-Government Strategy, Education Sessional Paper No 1 of 2005), is in a position to discuss modalities of ensuring open standards (educational) solutions are implemented in all sectors. Many people quote availability (yes they are available out there) but someone has to get them here locally. Perhaps our institutions of higher learning should take a lead in this area.

All positive comments in the discussion below are indeed worth considering in all strategies/action plans possible.

Kind Regards

-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+bksang=education.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bksang=education.go.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Areba Collins Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:35 PM To: Barnabas K. Sang Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] My Take: Affordable computers

Pentium 3, 633mhz, 10gb, 15' crt, keyboard, mouse, commercially retails at about ksh 4500, and is sufficient in my opinion to learn programming, surf the net and do basic office work. Give me a 'new pc's ' initiative and ill abandon my crusade. Worse (or better ) still, dell optiplex 3.0ghz 2gb cpu, 25k, ten thin clients and you have a classroom with less than the cost of a new pc, tell me just how this is not affording power to the masses.

On 8/28/09, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Crystal the term "affordable" is relative in the context of Socio - economic development, could you elaborate on your position?

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Crystal Watley Kigoni < crystal@voicesofafrica.org> wrote:

...

We have to start somewhere. Bringing in used computers is a simple and effective way to bring computing power into schools and villages. Yes, Computers for Schools Kenya does charge for these computers (too much if you ask me in comparison to other groups doing the same), and yet the schools pay for them so they can give their students a fighting chance at joining the knowledge economy. We need to consider the welfare of our young people before we sell out to the "new" game as Uganda has. Can Kenya really afford to equip ALL of our classrooms with brand new computers? And has anyone considered the monopoly given to Microsoft when we push for only new equipment? The license fees involved for software? There is a lot more to consider than simply e-waste. Crystal

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Areba Collins <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:

...

I cant believe this, are you guys actually arguing that having no computer is better than having one that is old, consumes lots of power and has only a few years left in it? Cause as far as the rest of it is concerned, quality is a function of competition.

...

Listers Evans has raised a pertinent issue, we might not have made some of the strides we have achieved in the sector without the used computers, on the other hand there is an environmental concern that is valid, this calls for a multistakeholder approach to create a win win situation for our local business men (Remember the used car parts issue that sprang up early

...

year), NGO and any other organisation involved in the importation

...

may be its time KEBS got involved in the process, reading through Bills email i am of the opinion that there might be some imbalance in the way

...

importation of the computers is handled, by the way i had there is a facility for disposing off e-waste in Dandora, maybe Mr Tom Musili could shed some light on the issue, i wish we had statistics to help in evaluating the impact of the used computers. Let the debate continue..

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Bildad Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

> > On Aug 28, 2009, at 8:12 AM, Victor Gathara wrote: > > I am thinking here of donations of used computers that can > make their way into the country through a regulated and monitored > channel (such as ComputerAid) who will also have responsibility to > ensure EOL disposal according to WEEE standards to prevent dumping > of > electronic waste. > > > Victor, > In your position, you know very well that these second had > computers are > not donations. You can ask Tony Roberts how much he is paid to > dispose a > computer from Barclays in UK, that eventually finds its way to a > school in > Mau. And the Mau school pays for shipping and other costs....but besides > all these politics......DFID > might consider to fund a specific study comparing the final > 'landed' cost > of > a dumped computer versus a 'clone' assembled with new parts at > Crescent > Technologies or JKUAT taking into consideration the kazi kwa vijana > created....if it has not been done already. PS. I am speaking as a > 'contributor' to this mess here, because I also have problems > disposing my > old computers and printers in the office. Most of the times, its > easier to > take them to a school in shags that cannot afford the electricity > bills of > running them...and... just live with the guilt like everyone else despite > being labeled as The Hero who brought us computers. > > One reason IBM sold its hardware unit was because Moores Law states over > time, the cost of hardware approaches zero and the cost of power > consumption > and capacity of the hardware doubles every 18 months. Thus, > bringing > 5 > year > old computers to Kenya only drains too much power when we should > strive to > bring consumption per watt down. At least, just based on power consumption > alone, dumped computer should never see the 'light of day' at the Kenyan > port if locally assembled computers will consume half of the > wattage > today....especially now when everyone is striving to go green. > > http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000868.html > > Google, for example, has watched its energy consumption almost > double > during the past three generations of upgrades to its sprawling computing > infrastructure. *It recently unveiled a major new datacenter site in > a > remote part of Oregon, where power costs are a fraction of those at > Google's > home base in Silicon Valley.* But cheap power may not be enough. > Last > year, Google engineer Luiz Andr� Barroso predicted that energy > costs would > dwarf equipment costs -- "possibly by a large margin" -- if

On 8/28/09, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote: this process, the power-hungry

...

> datacenters didn't mend their ways. Barroso went on to warn that > datacenters' growing appetite for power "could have serious consequences > for > the overall affordability of computing, not to mention the overall health > of > the planet." > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: otieno.barrack@gmail.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail.... > >

-- Barrack O. Otieno Administrative Manager Afriregister Ltd (Ke) P.o.Box 21682 Nairobi 00100 Tel: +254721325277 +254733206359 Riara Road, Bamboo Lane www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar.

-- Its Possible! http://www.itspossible.afraha.com

Collins Areba Omwoyo +254 735 824872 / +254 720 516758 arebacollins[at]gmail[dot]com

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-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/

"You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi

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-- Barrack O. Otieno Administrative Manager Afriregister Ltd (Ke) P.o.Box 21682 Nairobi 00100 Tel: +254721325277 +254733206359 Riara Road, Bamboo Lane www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar.

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This message was sent to: bksang@education.go.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bksang%40education.go.k... _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

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-- Its Possible! http://www.itspossible.afraha.com Collins Areba Omwoyo +254 735 824872 / +254 720 516758 arebacollins[at]gmail[dot]com

Hallo Otsieno, °I'm not in any way Collins, but out of curiosity, if there was communication between you and him, why not direct it at him privately? Why? Because this message is incomplete without any reference! My view. On 28/08/2009, otsieno namwaya <onamwaya@hotmail.com> wrote:

How are you Collins? I am still waiting for your communication. I hope you will take this seriously

_________________________________________________________________ Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/events.aspx

-- Solomon Mburu P.O. Box 19343 - 00202 Nairobi Cell: (+254-0) 735 431041 Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill! AND It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of ambiguous generosity!

On Aug 28, 2009, at 12:48 PM, Areba Collins wrote:

I cant believe this, are you guys actually arguing that having no computer is better than having one that is old,

Personally, I am. This is very debatable but if we can borrow a leaf from say...Safaricom/ZTE 'green' cellphone powered by solar. I do not see why an internet service provider cannot get into an SLA with a school where he charges for internet but provides the hardware and software, open, proprietary or otherwise for free....or at least charge a reasonable amount for the hardware (just to kick the 'donations' off equilibrium). If u were following the Right Honourable's remarks today at the National Economic and Social Council, he said that [sic] 'If everything is a priority, then nothing is a priority'. So, in tandem, in as much dumped computers help for a year or so, they are not really long term and we can afford to sacrifice dumped computers and rein in ISPs as alternative hardware providers if they want internet business. Actually, maybe that's where part of the ICT Board World Bank money should be going as they subsidize call centers. But we need administrators with [those things] to make it happen.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 5:33 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: 25% duty on used computers, was 1. to encourage local assembly (INDUSTRY) 2. to enable local job creation (EMPLOYMENT) 3. environmental impact from energy zapping used computers.(ENVIRONMENT) 4. cost of a donated computer amounts to between Ksh. 16,000 and 25,000. (OPPORTUNITY COST) SPOT ON!!!

On Aug 30, 2009, at 11:40 PM, waudo siganga wrote:

As for the environmental fears, I think (with respect to Prof) that is hyperbole like Y2K.

Waudo Esq, You compel me to make one final submission to this debate because it now sounds like we have a division and its a matter of who wins (for donations and against donations) whilst in essence we are meant to be on the same side....for Kenya and Kenyans. Someone mentioned we produce 3000 tonnes of e-waste every year locally. Do we then really need to import new and extra waste at a cost both financial and environmental?? If we had an elaborate process where each private company (including government) knew where they need to take their old computers for refurbishment to assist those in other sectors of the pyramid, then they would be available to Nicholas Kitavi and others at an even cheaper cost. Lets work with our own waste. I hear this list has over 300 observers....lurkers (both international and local) and the last thing we want to sound is typical Kenyan...where we don't agree on Mau, Constitution and even computer donations. At least let us agree that for those who MUST work with refurbished computers, Kenya and its environs has the capacity to producer cheaper waste which is less toxic. With regard to e-waste being a hyperbole, I urge you to think again and again and.......Again.

I'm told that when one imports computer parts they're charged duty, but when importing a wholy assembled computer (I'm assuming new) then no duty is charged. If this is correct, why doesn't the govenment scrap the duty on imported parts to further boost local assembly efforts? All in all, I don't see why the government should spend efforts in local assembly unless Kenya is adding value to the hardware in the assembled computers, or Kenya manufactures computer hardware (like China). A few years back I read that there is negligable cost savings in buying parts and assembling verses purchasing the assembled machine. O_O   --- On Sun, 8/30/09, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] My Take: Affordable computers To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 5:33 PM When the Kenya Government slaped a 25% duty on used computers, it was meant to encourage local assembly where we have done pretty well on the learning curve.  This policy change is to enable local job creation while taking into consideration on environmental impact from energy zapping used computers.  In any case, the cost of a donated computer amounts to between Ksh. 16,000 and 25,000.  This is pretty much what it cost assembling a new PC locally. Regards Ndemo. ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world" _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kiriinya2000%40yahoo.co...

I have seen this discussion degenerate from used computers to dumped computers. The two are worlds apart. I would call it dumping if you get P1s and P2s. But for P3s and P4s that still have 3-5 years left in them, thats not dumping.

When the Kenya Government slapped a 25% duty on used computers, it was meant to encourage local assembly where we have done pretty well on the learning curve.

I think this is wrong. As far as I know, there is not much local assembly going on currently. The clones that are assembled with parts from China have a lesser lifespan than the used branded computers that are sold in the market. Because the parts are of inferior quality - which makes them affordable. The point is, a new clone goes for 20 - 25k. A used P4 with respectable specs goes for between 10 - 15k. The used P4 will mostly have a longer lifespan than the clone because it has genuine and high quality parts. So, if you are equipping a cyber/digital village/school on a limited budget, which option would you go for?

In any case, the cost of a donated computer amounts to between Ksh. 16,000 and 25,000. This is pretty much what it cost assembling a new PC locally.

These figures are not right. Camara is now donating computers (P4s) at 5,000/= a piece. Just enough to cover the cost of shipping them in and a few logistics. This would probably halve if there was no duty on used computers. Which then means that they would donate double the computers that they are doing now. So much for putting hardware in the hands of the population. I dont see who would be donating computers for 20,000 yet in the shops the price is 10,000. They are also working on a method of taking back the computers and replacing them at the end of their lifespan, to take care of the environment. What should be done is to ensure that used computers imported are only of a certain age. This can easily be done through KEBS as there is a requirement for inspection - Pre-shipment Verification of Conformity (PVOC), before the computers leave their origin. Then we can say that we can't accept importation of computer more than 5 years old for instance. The laptop I have been using for almost a year now came in as used. It is clear to see that used computers have made a very big impact on the local industry in terms of putting hardware in the hands of the people. Instead of penalizing the poor, we should let market forces determine what works best. -- Evans Ikua Linux Professional Association of Kenya Tel: +254-20-2250381, Cell: +254-722 955 831 Eagle House, 2nd Floor Kimathi Street, Opp. Corner House www.lpakenya.org Quoting bitange@jambo.co.ke:

When the Kenya Government slaped a 25% duty on used computers, it was meant to encourage local assembly where we have done pretty well on the learning curve. This policy change is to enable local job creation while taking into consideration on environmental impact from energy zapping used computers. In any case, the cost of a donated computer amounts to between Ksh. 16,000 and 25,000. This is pretty much what it cost assembling a new PC locally.

Regards

Ndemo.

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I like to think that Mauritius is in Africa. Ergo Africa is represented in the name of Dave Kissoondoyal On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 2:19 PM, waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com>wrote:

This year the ICANN nominating committee was considering 9 appointments to leadership positions in ICANN. 86 candidates applied, 10 from Africa. None was chosen from Africa.... http://www.icann.org/en/announcements/announcement-28aug09-en.htm

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Conrad is right. I am sorry I overlooked the ALAC position that went to Dave. Indeed the position had been reserved for Africa. And Nnenna is also right about competence being the key consideration. The problem in Africa is that there is usually not an effective outreach program ny Nom_Com, ICANN or even stakeholders to find well qualified candidates. It is just lucky that ICANN rules reserve some slots for Africa in pursuance of the Geographic Diversity requirements. All the same we badly need more Africans in there. We need especially another person on the Board beyond the diversity requirement. Waudo On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:45 -0500, "Nnenna Nwakanma" <nnenna@nnenna.org> wrote:

...

I like to think that Mauritius is in Africa. Ergo Africa is represented in the name of Dave Kissoondoyal

Same here. In fact, there were 23 European Statements of Interest received and I do not see anybody from the European Union..

That one too cries out loud if judgments were to be made on continental basis. But I do believe that competence should be valued above every/any other considerations

Best regards

Nnenna

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Dr Ndemo Locally assembled PCs will eventually die and become eWaste Branded foreign PCs will die and become eWaste New mobile phones, TVs, hi-fi, kettles, fridges, A/Cs will all become eWaste   Kenya has no alternative but to build end-of-life recycling capacity for eWaste  GoK must legislate to ban eWaste dumping GoK must legislate to promote and incentivaise local re-use of EEE GoK must legislate to obligate WEEE recycling at end-of-life GoK must insist that OEMs pay for all aspects of re-use and recycling as in Europe --- On Sun, 8/30/09, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] My Take: Affordable computers To: benmakai@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 5:33 PM When the Kenya Government slaped a 25% duty on used computers, it was meant to encourage local assembly where we have done pretty well on the learning curve.  This policy change is to enable local job creation while taking into consideration on environmental impact from energy zapping used computers.  In any case, the cost of a donated computer amounts to between Ksh. 16,000 and 25,000.  This is pretty much what it cost assembling a new PC locally. Regards Ndemo. ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world" _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: benmakai@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/benmakai%40yahoo.com

Bill, I have a problem with generic 'demonising' of all second-hand/used computers. My question is? when you sold your last "as-good as new" computer or device did you then not commit the grave e-dumping crime as defined by some here? If all are reading this and *all* their past emails ever from brand new computing devices they are excused. Would the "short version" of the problem solution be that *everyone* supports large, rich, local or foreign computer vendors to grow their enterprises because they are "environmental friendly" - all else notwithstanding? Just a question.... Alex On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Bildad Kagai<billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

On Aug 28, 2009, at 8:12 AM, Victor Gathara wrote:

 I am thinking here of donations of used computers that can make their way into the country through a regulated and monitored channel (such as ComputerAid) who will also have responsibility to ensure EOL disposal according to WEEE standards to prevent dumping of electronic waste.

Victor, In your position, you know very well that these second had computers are not donations. You can ask Tony Roberts how much he is paid to dispose a computer from Barclays in UK, that eventually finds its way to a school in Mau. And the Mau school pays for shipping and other costs....but besides all these politics......DFID might consider to fund a specific study comparing the final 'landed' cost of a dumped computer versus a 'clone' assembled with new parts at Crescent Technologies or JKUAT taking into consideration the kazi kwa vijana created....if it has not been done already. PS. I am speaking as a 'contributor' to this mess here, because I also have problems disposing my old computers and printers in the office. Most of the times, its easier to take them to a school in shags that cannot afford the electricity bills of running them...and... just live with the guilt like everyone else despite being labeled as The Hero who brought us computers. One reason IBM sold its hardware unit was because Moores Law states over time, the cost of hardware approaches zero and the cost of power consumption and capacity of the hardware doubles every 18 months.  Thus, bringing 5 year old computers to Kenya only drains too much power when we should strive to bring consumption per watt down. At least, just based on power consumption alone, dumped computer should never see the 'light of day' at the Kenyan port if locally assembled computers will consume half of the wattage today....especially now when everyone is striving to go green. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000868.html Google, for example, has watched its energy consumption almost double during the past three generations of upgrades to its sprawling computing infrastructure. It recently unveiled a major new datacenter site in a remote part of Oregon, where power costs are a fraction of those at Google's home base in Silicon Valley. But cheap power may not be enough. Last year, Google engineer Luiz Andr� Barroso predicted that energy costs would dwarf equipment costs -- "possibly by a large margin" -- if power-hungry datacenters didn't mend their ways. Barroso went on to warn that datacenters' growing appetite for power "could have serious consequences for the overall affordability of computing, not to mention the overall health of the planet."

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Bildad Kagai<billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

I do not see any problem with supporting large, rich, local or foreign computer vendors. That is the nature of capitalism but you sound like you are opposed to untrammeled workings of the economic market. You probably need a constitutional amendment to augment this logic.

Capitalism and democracy - they often sound similar BUT they are quite different. We must avoid handing 'economic market' to a few by taking away communication rights of all others. Why structurally punish the majority poor (lives on 1$ /day) with additional taxes, 'passed on' to them those that you state you support? Equitable development is need...

If your actions and business in any way support making Kenya a green economy then, that is the best gift we can give to our children for posterity. WE have messed the economy, tribalised ourselves and cannibalized the wetlands. Can we at least not add the headache of dealing with dumped e-waste we received as donations??

hmmm... reads like symptoms of excessive capitalism greed did it, and you are not individually to blame my friend.

I don't know why you have put me in this foul mood!!!!

Why Bill, when all I am doing is to protect those your rights you used to sell every one of your previously owned computing/internet connection equipment that you 'dumped on innocent souls':-)

On Aug 29, 2009, at 5:51 AM, Gakuru Alex wrote:

...

Bill,

I have a problem with generic 'demonising' of all second-hand/used computers.

My question is? when you sold your last "as-good as new" computer or device did you then not commit the grave e-dumping crime as defined by some here?

If all are reading this and *all* their past emails ever from brand new computing devices they are excused.

Would the "short version" of the problem solution be that *everyone* supports large, rich, local or foreign computer vendors to grow their enterprises because they are "environmental friendly" - all else notwithstanding? Just a question....

Alex

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Bildad Kagai<billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Aug 28, 2009, at 8:12 AM, Victor Gathara wrote:

 I am thinking here of donations of used computers that can make their way into the country through a regulated and monitored channel (such as ComputerAid) who will also have responsibility to ensure EOL disposal according to WEEE standards to prevent dumping of electronic waste.

Victor, In your position, you know very well that these second had computers are not donations. You can ask Tony Roberts how much he is paid to dispose a computer from Barclays in UK, that eventually finds its way to a school in Mau. And the Mau school pays for shipping and other costs....but besides all these politics......DFID might consider to fund a specific study comparing the final 'landed' cost of a dumped computer versus a 'clone' assembled with new parts at Crescent Technologies or JKUAT taking into consideration the kazi kwa vijana created....if it has not been done already. PS. I am speaking as a 'contributor' to this mess here, because I also have problems disposing my old computers and printers in the office. Most of the times, its easier to take them to a school in shags that cannot afford the electricity bills of running them...and... just live with the guilt like everyone else despite being labeled as The Hero who brought us computers. One reason IBM sold its hardware unit was because Moores Law states over time, the cost of hardware approaches zero and the cost of power consumption and capacity of the hardware doubles every 18 months.  Thus, bringing 5 year old computers to Kenya only drains too much power when we should strive to bring consumption per watt down. At least, just based on power consumption alone, dumped computer should never see the 'light of day' at the Kenyan port if locally assembled computers will consume half of the wattage today....especially now when everyone is striving to go green. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000868.html Google, for example, has watched its energy consumption almost double during the past three generations of upgrades to its sprawling computing infrastructure. It recently unveiled a major new datacenter site in a remote part of Oregon, where power costs are a fraction of those at Google's home base in Silicon Valley. But cheap power may not be enough. Last year, Google engineer Luiz Andr� Barroso predicted that energy costs would dwarf equipment costs -- "possibly by a large margin" -- if power-hungry datacenters didn't mend their ways. Barroso went on to warn that datacenters' growing appetite for power "could have serious consequences for the overall affordability of computing, not to mention the overall health of the planet."

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On Aug 29, 2009, at 9:23 AM, Gakuru Alex wrote:

Why Bill, when all I am doing is to protect those your rights you used to sell every one of your previously owned computing/internet connection equipment that you 'dumped on innocent souls':-)

Good point Alex. After two years of aggressive business I will book an appointment with Ambassador Kiplagat and confess to my role in contributing to e-waste and why my role is part of FUTURE historical injustice for future generations. That will give me a clean conscience knowing that I can mess as much I can after all the truth justice and reconciliation commission will forgive me for that. Lets plunder our Kenya....justice is in the offing.

Dear all, I have scanned the inputs made yesterday on used computers, although I could not go through all of them. In my view, the problem is beyond new/locally assembled PCs against imported re-conditioned computers. The biggest problem is that of a time bomb in terms of e-waste. A study I led on e-waste in 2007 showed that at that time, Kenya generated at least 3,000 tons of e-waste every year (a copy is attached). I am sure you can see the problem if you consider a number of years. It gets worse if you consider that the number of PCs are growing every year. From this point of view, a policy is necessary on e-waste. A second issue is the life of an assembled clone vis-a-vis that of re-conditioned computer. Has anyone done any study? Can they share the results. I bought many locally assembled PCs and many of the them developed lots of problems and their life in a busy user environment is relatively low. I did this long time ago and I cannot recall the average life. The cost of ownership kept on increasing. I have also tried re-conditioned brand computers and I am monitoring their life. I am tempted to do a study. The other issue is developing local capacity for ICT technology development. Many countries started from the assembly route with a strategy to develop local capacity. Do we really have a strategy? Putting 25% duty on used computers is not a strategy. It would make sense if it was part of a comprehensive strategy either aimed at developing local capacity for technology development or something. It does not even start to address our e-waste problem. A few words on a staurday afternoon. tim waema On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:

Good points being raised here the more reason as to why we need a multistakeholder approach to address the issue by finding common ground, we cannot demonise used computers in a blanket manner, more so when ICT is a critical component in Vision 2030, they are certainly playing a critical role, as it turns out "affordability" is ambiguous

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Bildad Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Aug 29, 2009, at 9:23 AM, Gakuru Alex wrote:

Why Bill, when all I am doing is to protect those your rights you used

...

to sell every one of your previously owned computing/internet connection equipment that you 'dumped on innocent souls':-)

Good point Alex. After two years of aggressive business I will book an appointment with Ambassador Kiplagat and confess to my role in contributing to e-waste and why my role is part of FUTURE historical injustice for future generations. That will give me a clean conscience knowing that I can mess as much I can after all the truth justice and reconciliation commission will forgive me for that. Lets plunder our Kenya....justice is in the offing.

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Walu, there was a high profile National ICT exhibtion / week two years ago hosted by ICT Village.com i remember meeting an old Lady who had come all the way from Vihiga as we walked around with her and passed by the e-maddo stand, we inquired about the cost and she really complained bitterly (It was around 40 K) if i wasnt wrong, she felt this was exploitative (haki yetu), i am not sure how e-maddo was received by the market, from what you are saying Walu it appears to be another "Nyayo pioneer" sort of project, am told that in chinese the same character is used for opportunities and challenges, within some some of this failed projects there lies an opportunity to do better, why for instance would Kenyans prefer brands over locally assmbled machines?, Prof Waema talked of TCO, the lady i met complained about the cost vis avis that of refurbs, something to ponder about Lakini bado Najivunia kuwa Mkenya, in fact am a member :-) On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

local capacity development for Assembling/manufacturing PCs? Indeed there is (was?) such an initiative started 4yrs ago between the Kenyan ICT Ministry and local Universities - under the brand name eMaddo Project. SU, UoN, JKUAT and Multimedia Univ College were all signatories...with CCK throwing in the seed money.

But today I am not sure if any of the Universities are still in this project. But I can tell you that we bought quite a number of these locally assembled eMaddo Computers and 3yrs down the road they are still working and are as strong as the branded ones (Dell, HP etc)

walu.

--- On Sat, 8/29/09, Mwololo Tim <timwololo@gmail.com> wrote:

...

From: Mwololo Tim <timwololo@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] My Take: Affordable computers To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 3:49 PM Dear all,

I have scanned the inputs made yesterday on used computers, although I could not go through all of them.

In my view, the problem is beyond new/locally assembled PCs against imported re-conditioned computers. The biggest problem is that of a time bomb in terms of e-waste. A study I led on e-waste in 2007 showed that at that time, Kenya generated at least 3,000 tons of e-waste every year (a copy is attached). I am sure you can see the problem if you consider a number of years. It gets worse if you consider that the number of PCs are growing every year. From this point of view, a policy is necessary on e-waste.

A second issue is the life of an assembled clone vis-a-vis that of re-conditioned computer. Has anyone done any study? Can they share the results. I bought many locally assembled PCs and many of the them developed lots of problems and their life in a busy user environment is relatively low. I did this long time ago and I cannot recall the average life. The cost of ownership kept on increasing. I have also tried re-conditioned brand computers and I am monitoring their life. I am tempted to do a study.

The other issue is developing local capacity for ICT technology development. Many countries started from the assembly route with a strategy to develop local capacity. Do we really have a strategy? Putting 25% duty on used computers is not a strategy. It would make sense if it was part of a comprehensive strategy either aimed at developing local capacity for technology development or something. It does not even start to address our e-waste problem.

A few words on a staurday afternoon.

tim waema

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

Good points being raised here the more reason as to why we need a multistakeholder approach to address the issue by finding common ground, we cannot demonise used computers in a blanket manner, more so when ICT is a critical component in Vision 2030, they are certainly playing a critical role, as it turns out "affordability" is ambiguous

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Bildad Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

On Aug 29, 2009, at 9:23 AM, Gakuru Alex wrote:

Why Bill, when all I am doing is to protect those your rights you used

to sell every one of your previously owned computing/internet

connection equipment that you 'dumped on innocent souls':-)

Good point Alex.

After two years of aggressive business I will book an appointment with Ambassador Kiplagat and confess to my role in contributing to e-waste and why my role is part of FUTURE historical injustice for future generations. That will give me a clean conscience knowing that I can mess as much I can after all the truth justice and reconciliation commission will forgive me for that. Lets plunder our Kenya....justice is in the offing.

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Walu, In most countries where the gap between Industry and Academia has been successfully bridged the government acted as the third arm (triple helix model) that ensured success. In Western Europe and Northern America, the governments ensured the laws favoured investors (both local and third world despots who stash funds there) while in the newly Industrializing tigers the governments chipped in decisively (plus the West invested heavily to discourage South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan etc. going communist) and of course China did open some parts to practice market (read capitalism) economics but with the government guarding the incubatees against the accomplished Western firms (something difficult in our part of the world due to being easily arm twisted and off course the 'willing' to play 'ball' aka negative patriotism) . Sadly for Africa we are told to have good governance without marching funds! Hence we need to (find a way to)encourage our local moneyed guys, to invest locally as it appears no funds will come from without. Enjoy your week. David On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

eMaddo, Nyayo Pioneer, and other projects are evidence of attempts to bridge the gap between Industry and Academia.

I think East African Universities are by design Academic and unless such a design is re-structured fundamentally (within Universities Acts, Laws, etc) this gap will continue to persist.

walu.

--- On Sun, 8/30/09, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

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From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] My Take: Affordable computers-remember eMaddo? To: "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 2:48 PM Walu, there was a high profile National ICT exhibtion / week two years ago hosted by ICT Village.com i remember meeting an old Lady who had come all the way from Vihiga as we walked around with her and passed by the e-maddo stand, we inquired about the cost and she really complained bitterly (It was around 40 K) if i wasnt wrong, she felt this was exploitative (haki yetu), i am not sure how e-maddo was received by the market, from what you are saying Walu it appears to be another "Nyayo pioneer" sort of project, am told that in chinese the same character is used for opportunities and challenges, within some some of this failed projects there lies an opportunity to do better, why for instance would Kenyans prefer brands over locally assmbled machines?, Prof Waema talked of TCO, the lady i met complained about the cost vis avis that of refurbs, something to ponder about

Lakini bado Najivunia kuwa Mkenya, in fact am a member :-)

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

local capacity development for Assembling/manufacturing PCs? Indeed there is (was?) such an initiative started 4yrs ago between the Kenyan ICT Ministry and local Universities - under the brand name eMaddo Project. SU, UoN, JKUAT and Multimedia Univ College were all signatories...with CCK throwing in the seed money.

But today I am not sure if any of the Universities are still in this project. But I can tell you that we bought quite a number of these locally assembled eMaddo Computers and 3yrs down the road they are still working and are as strong as the branded ones (Dell, HP etc)

walu.

--- On Sat, 8/29/09, Mwololo Tim <timwololo@gmail.com> wrote:

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From: Mwololo Tim <timwololo@gmail.com>

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Subject: Re: [kictanet] My Take: Affordable computers

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To: jwalu@yahoo.com

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Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>

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Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 3:49 PM

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Dear all,

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I have scanned the inputs made yesterday on used computers,

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although I could not go through all of them.

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In my view, the problem is beyond new/locally assembled PCs

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against imported re-conditioned computers. The biggest

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problem is that of a time bomb in terms of e-waste. A study

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I led on e-waste in 2007 showed that at that time, Kenya

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generated at least 3,000 tons of e-waste every year (a copy

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is attached). I am sure you can see the problem if you

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consider a number of years. It gets worse if you consider

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that the number of PCs are growing every year. From this

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point of view, a policy is necessary on e-waste.

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...

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A second issue is the life of an assembled clone vis-a-vis

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that of re-conditioned computer. Has anyone done any study?

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Can they share the results. I bought many locally assembled

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PCs and many of the them developed lots of problems and

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their life in a busy user environment is relatively low. I

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did this long time ago and I cannot recall the average life.

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The cost of ownership kept on increasing. I have also tried

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re-conditioned brand computers and I am monitoring their

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life. I am tempted to do a study.

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The other issue is developing local capacity for ICT

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technology development. Many countries started from the

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assembly route with a strategy to develop local capacity. Do

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we really have a strategy? Putting 25% duty on used

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computers is not a strategy. It would make sense if it was

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part of a comprehensive strategy either aimed at developing

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local capacity for technology development or something. It

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does not even start to address our e-waste problem.

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A few words on a staurday afternoon.

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...

tim waema

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On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:11 AM,

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Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

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wrote:

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Good points being raised here the

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more reason as to why we need a multistakeholder approach

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to address the issue by finding common ground, we cannot

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demonise used computers in a blanket manner, more so when

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ICT is a critical component in Vision 2030, they are

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certainly playing a critical role, as it turns out

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"affordability" is ambiguous

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On Sat, Aug 29,

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2009 at 9:51 AM, Bildad Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com>

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wrote:

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On Aug 29, 2009, at 9:23 AM, Gakuru Alex wrote:

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Why Bill, when all I am doing is to protect those your

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rights you used

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to sell every one of your previously owned

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computing/internet

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connection equipment that you 'dumped on innocent

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souls':-)

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Good point Alex.

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After two years of aggressive business I will book an

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appointment with Ambassador Kiplagat and confess to my role

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in contributing to e-waste and why my role is part of FUTURE

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historical injustice for future generations. That will give

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me a clean conscience knowing that I can mess as much I can

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after all the truth justice and reconciliation commission

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will forgive me for that. Lets plunder our Kenya....justice

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is in the offing.

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--

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Barrack O. Otieno

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Administrative Manager

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Afriregister Ltd (Ke)

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P.o.Box 21682

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Nairobi 00100

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Tel:

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+254721325277

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+254733206359

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Riara Road, Bamboo Lane

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www.afriregister.com

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This message was sent to: timwololo@gmail.com

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www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar.

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On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Leonard Mware<mleonardo@yahoo.com>

Used cars? Used computers? Used clothes? Why are they there? Affordability? Need?

Used cars and clothes do not contain contaminants such as cadmium, lead, mercury and flame retardants that can cause some serious heath issues and pollute the area in which they are dumped. I think we cannot solve this collectively...but individual effort can go a long way. Just do your part. http://environmental-activism.suite101.com/article.cfm/ewaste_an_environment... Most Americans get a new computer every three or four years and some get rid of their old cell phones for the newest technology every one to two years. Individuals are responsible for creating piles of e-waste and corporations creates even more. This leads to a very large collection of e-waste and since garbage collectors usually will not accept it there is a conundrum as to what to do with it. It can be sent to recyclers that will process the parts legally and safely, but that costs money. There is usually a fee to get rid of electronics in this manner. Therefore, e-waste is being sent to third world countries as “donations” so poor communities can have computers and cell phones. Unfortunatley, most of these devices do not work, or are obsolete, or they can’t be fixed. In the video “Ghana: digital Dumping Gound, Frontline World Storeis from a Small Planet”, (June 23, 2009); Peter Kline reveals the fact that many corporations and even the US government are sending barges of e-waste to Ghana and other poor countries including China. Children play what used to be a soccer field in Ghana finding their ball through the haze of smoke from smoking piles of flame retardent plastic casings from computers and monitors. They are taking a break from scavanging in the massive electronic dump yard for things they can take and sell in order to get food for them and their families. They often “melt down” electronics irregardless of the chemicals immited when burned to find melted metals. E-Waste in Ghana, China, and India Countries like Ghana accept old computers and accessories as donations but instead of contributing to the well being of their people, e-waste is creating miles and miles of piles of garbage. Interestingly enough some of the e-waste in Ghana was tracked back to the United States Government by a group of US students. Mountains of e-waste have taken the place of rice paddies in China. Young women sit over hot plates melting down circuit boards filled with toxic materials to extract usable metals while their baby’s sit next to them teething on a circuit board. India is producing its own e-waste even though they are still accepting those “donations”. Some of the people participating in the canabalization of this waste know it is dangerous to their health, yet they still do it because they need money to buy food and other necessities. Read more: http://environmental-activism.suite101.com/article.cfm/ewaste_an_environment...