Hi, Finally got a video that explains the death of mot great initiatives suggested on this forum http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFNXNTVNjZM&feature=BFa&list=UU6fryLGM_FkZQ9hklhfpj2A Regards PS.  There are 2 ways to beat up anyone who tries to get to the ladder, flame them to a crispy ash (Yawe nd elk) or not contributing (laggards) either of which is very effective.   Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696