Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open
Hi All, +1 Agreed with Ali, both Safaricom and Equity are known to have tried to run hand in hand on the mobile money, peer to peer transfers etc. After a failed attempt by Equity with m-kesho, where they had the right opportunity to exploit the network Safaricom has build out now they are complaining. The financial sector needs to agree on payment standards which they could get M-Pesa to align to thus bring and even playing field, but our bankers are continuously chasing M-Pesa and other mobile money products. Today, if you consider what M-Pesa offers and it is very easy for the financial industry to replicate but requires the level of boldness and innovation that Safaricom under Michael J. displayed in an poorly regulated market or accept that Safaricom has the necessary banking licences to compete with them as stance of equal footing. Whilst CCK in return opens out an MVNO's licensing opportunity to other interested parties like financial institutions to increase competition. I foresee a financial institution or a supermarket (e.g. Tesco UK) could become one stop shop for providing various services provided by the a mobile network operator and a financial institution. This is leading to sophisticated bundling of services that provide the convenience a customer requires but leave the core competencies of running the MNO in the hands of specialist. The question here is of the customer footfall and how an organisation is able to services its customer requirements with the right value for money propositions. That is my 2 cents worth on reflection of the on going discussion. Best Regards, Baiju Shah Managing Partner Telemedia Africa Ltd. Tel. +254 787332247 On 1 Aug 2013, at 21:22, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open
@areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom. The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know
In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
@areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom.
The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know
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Openness I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily. The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology. In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA. If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge. Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product.
I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc.
Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide.
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com>wrote:
@areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom.
The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know
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James ad all Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on. Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375 "The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote:
Openness
I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily.
The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology.
In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA.
If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge.
Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there.
Regards
James
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product.
I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc.
Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide.
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
@areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom.
The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime – this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called “MPESA Instant Payment Notification” originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. Isn’t this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko Chief Executive Officer Bernsoft Interactive Limited P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya Office: +254-703-080-000 Mobile: +254-722-540-883 From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko=bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open James ad all Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on. Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375 "The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote: Openness I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily. The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology. In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA. If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge. Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: @areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom. The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Bernard Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean. Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development? Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development. THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system. This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly. There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers. But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it. This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote:
I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. ****
** **
My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime – this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called “MPESA Instant Payment Notification” originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. ****
** **
Isn’t this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage.****
* *
* *
*Kind Regards, *
* *
*Bernard Kioko *Chief Executive Officer**
Bernsoft Interactive Limited****
P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya****
Office: +254-703-080-000****
Mobile: +254-722-540-883****
** **
*From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko= bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Ali Hussein *Sent:* Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM *To:* bkioko@bernsoft.com
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
** **
James ad all****
** **
Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. ****
** **
Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). ****
** **
Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on.****
** **
Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. ****
Ali Hussein****
CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd****
Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd****
** **
+254 713 601113/ 0770 906375****
****
"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb****
** **
Sent from my iPad****
On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote:****
Openness****
** **
I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily.****
** **
The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology.****
** **
In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA.****
** **
If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge.****
** **
Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there.****
** **
Regards****
** **
James****
** **
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:****
In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. ****
** **
I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. ****
** **
Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. ****
** **
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:****
@areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom.
The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding.****
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know****
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet****
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com** **
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
****
** **
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
****
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James, Perhaps am just being narrow minded on this one BUT Equity is also my client for the same services we provide Safaricom - therefore no biase on either. In one of my previous posts I asked, whether Equity has opened up its own infrastructure for integration. Are they asking for something they cant give? Equity is the largest bank in Kenya (based on customer base). This also means that it enjoys the same relative aspects as MPESA does for being largest money transfer. If Equity was to be affected by these same factors you have mentioned, we would a banking effect that would be felt by consumers. Indeed, we noticed this recently. This means they should be opening up their infrastructure to other market segments - going by what they are asking Safaricom to do. That said, I am trying to pick 1 way Equity has opened up its systems for integration like they are asking Safaricom to do. I have illustrated one (though small) way Safaricom has done this. No one opens up their systems unless they can find value in doing so - not even Microsoft. All I have said in my post was, Equity should create value for Safaricom to convince Safaricom to open up their systems/lines further. I hope you get my point. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko From: James Mbugua [mailto:jgmbugua@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 1:51 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open Bernard Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean. Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development? Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development. THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system. This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly. There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers. But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it. This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime - this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called "MPESA Instant Payment Notification" originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. Isn't this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko Chief Executive Officer Bernsoft Interactive Limited P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya Office: +254-703-080-000 <tel:%2B254-703-080-000> Mobile: +254-722-540-883 <tel:%2B254-722-540-883> From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bbkioko> =bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open James ad all Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on. Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375 "The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote: Openness I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily. The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology. In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA. If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge. Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: @areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom. The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Bernard THe only way other banks would like Equity to open itself up is to give them its customers' profiles so they can target the good ones. Payments systems however are already open be it by cheque, cash, RTGS, ATMs etc the banks talk to each other and we don't notice that one uses Bankmaster and the other Temenos T24. Similarly, I'm asking that M-PESA relate the same way with other payment systems. You shouldn't choose who uses your payment system to pay who unless it is a case of money-laundering. In other words, there should be net neutrality, Safaricom can earn its transaction fees from the massive traffic unimpeded, but it should not be up to them to determine what nature of business grows on the back of using their payment system. I can understand them wanting to protect the customer base they have built, but it is only a matter of time before technology advances - Whataspp is becoming a monster in video and image transfer even as Facebook and Google awaken to it, Bitcoin is becoming a reality and so one How long do you think it is before you find Money transfer service Apps based on the Android system alone and not the network operator? Rather than stay closed, these guys need to open up to every Tom, Dick and Harry to interface with their API and build businesses on it further entrenching itself otherwise when Network Agnostic Financial Services applications come along, it will be a major lost opportunity. James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 2:42 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote:
James,****
** **
Perhaps am just being narrow minded on this one BUT Equity is also my client for the same services we provide Safaricom – therefore no biase on either. In one of my previous posts I asked, whether Equity has opened up its own infrastructure for integration. Are they asking for something they cant give?****
** **
Equity is the largest bank in Kenya (based on customer base). This also means that it enjoys the same relative aspects as MPESA does for being largest money transfer. If Equity was to be affected by these same factors you have mentioned, we would a banking effect that would be felt by consumers. Indeed, we noticed this recently. This means they should be opening up their infrastructure to other market segments – going by what they are asking Safaricom to do. ****
** **
That said, I am trying to pick 1 way Equity has opened up its systems for integration like they are asking Safaricom to do. I have illustrated one (though small) way Safaricom has done this.****
** **
No one opens up their systems unless they can find value in doing so – not even Microsoft. All I have said in my post was, Equity should create value for Safaricom to convince Safaricom to open up their systems/lines further. ****
** **
I hope you get my point.****
** **
** **
*Kind Regards, *
* *
*Bernard Kioko
*****
** **
*From:* James Mbugua [mailto:jgmbugua@gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 06, 2013 1:51 PM
*To:* bkioko@bernsoft.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
** **
Bernard****
** **
Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean.* ***
** **
Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development?****
** **
Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development.****
** **
THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system.****
** **
This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly.****
** **
There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers.****
** **
But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. ****
** **
What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it.****
** **
This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen.****
** **
Regards****
** **
James****
** **
** **
** **
** **
** **
** **
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote:****
I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. ****
****
My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime – this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called “MPESA Instant Payment Notification” originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. ****
****
Isn’t this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage.****
* *****
* *****
*Kind Regards, *****
* *****
*Bernard Kioko *Chief Executive Officer****
Bernsoft Interactive Limited****
P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya****
Office: +254-703-080-000****
Mobile: +254-722-540-883****
****
*From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko= bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Ali Hussein *Sent:* Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM *To:* bkioko@bernsoft.com****
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions****
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
****
James ad all****
****
Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. ****
****
Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). ****
****
Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on.****
****
Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. ****
Ali Hussein****
CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd****
Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd****
****
+254 713 601113/ 0770 906375****
** **
"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb****
****
Sent from my iPad****
On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote:****
Openness****
****
I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily.****
****
The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology.****
****
In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA.****
****
If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge.****
****
Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there.****
****
Regards****
****
James****
****
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:****
In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. ****
****
I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. ****
****
Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. ****
****
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:****
@areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom.
The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding.****
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know****
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Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com** **
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
****
****
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
****
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
****
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
** **
I am not advocating for MPESA to stay closed. I am saying that MPESA is already open. As I have read elsewhere, I think this request from Equity is deeper than we see. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko Chief Executive Officer Bernsoft Interactive Limited P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya Office: +254-703-080-000 Mobile: +254-722-540-883 From: James Mbugua [mailto:jgmbugua@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 3:52 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open Bernard THe only way other banks would like Equity to open itself up is to give them its customers' profiles so they can target the good ones. Payments systems however are already open be it by cheque, cash, RTGS, ATMs etc the banks talk to each other and we don't notice that one uses Bankmaster and the other Temenos T24. Similarly, I'm asking that M-PESA relate the same way with other payment systems. You shouldn't choose who uses your payment system to pay who unless it is a case of money-laundering. In other words, there should be net neutrality, Safaricom can earn its transaction fees from the massive traffic unimpeded, but it should not be up to them to determine what nature of business grows on the back of using their payment system. I can understand them wanting to protect the customer base they have built, but it is only a matter of time before technology advances - Whataspp is becoming a monster in video and image transfer even as Facebook and Google awaken to it, Bitcoin is becoming a reality and so one How long do you think it is before you find Money transfer service Apps based on the Android system alone and not the network operator? Rather than stay closed, these guys need to open up to every Tom, Dick and Harry to interface with their API and build businesses on it further entrenching itself otherwise when Network Agnostic Financial Services applications come along, it will be a major lost opportunity. James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 2:42 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: James, Perhaps am just being narrow minded on this one BUT Equity is also my client for the same services we provide Safaricom - therefore no biase on either. In one of my previous posts I asked, whether Equity has opened up its own infrastructure for integration. Are they asking for something they cant give? Equity is the largest bank in Kenya (based on customer base). This also means that it enjoys the same relative aspects as MPESA does for being largest money transfer. If Equity was to be affected by these same factors you have mentioned, we would a banking effect that would be felt by consumers. Indeed, we noticed this recently. This means they should be opening up their infrastructure to other market segments - going by what they are asking Safaricom to do. That said, I am trying to pick 1 way Equity has opened up its systems for integration like they are asking Safaricom to do. I have illustrated one (though small) way Safaricom has done this. No one opens up their systems unless they can find value in doing so - not even Microsoft. All I have said in my post was, Equity should create value for Safaricom to convince Safaricom to open up their systems/lines further. I hope you get my point. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko From: James Mbugua [mailto:jgmbugua@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 1:51 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open Bernard Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean. Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development? Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development. THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system. This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly. There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers. But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it. This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime - this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called "MPESA Instant Payment Notification" originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. Isn't this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko Chief Executive Officer Bernsoft Interactive Limited P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya Office: +254-703-080-000 <tel:%2B254-703-080-000> Mobile: +254-722-540-883 <tel:%2B254-722-540-883> From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bbkioko> =bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open James ad all Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on. Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375 "The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote: Openness I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily. The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology. In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA. If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge. Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: @areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom. The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hi All, Exactly what is the point of this discussion, as it seems someone wants to say something but is not getting to the point. What is open, are we suggesting that equity open up its branches and allows me to sell bananas in their banking halls because they have the largest client base or is it that the staffs ethnicity needs to show national diversity or that they should open up their banking software to all and sundry to connect and do as they wish with the client data, exactly what does Equity want Safaricom to make open yet they have mKesho together? When people start making personal attacks on others for their contributions it suggests a deeper issue than what the subject indicates and it might be better for them to put their cards on the table. Safaricom is a industry player who partner with a certain nondescript bank called CBA to provide the really kick ass solution, which makes me wonder if what Equity means by Safaricom being open is in which bank holds the deposits. So from where I am sitting the discussion here has nothing to do with an API, which if you are innovative you do not need, but more a taff war for the deposits that Safaricom holds on mPesa, MShwari and soon mBima, mSoko, mMali, mTV, mVituVingiSana. Regards PS. Let us pick a fight we can win like making sure PostaPesa is open Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 13:50 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open Bernard Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean. Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development? Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development. THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system. This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly. There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers. But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it. This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences.
My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime – this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called “MPESA Instant Payment Notification” originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. Isn’t this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko Chief Executive Officer Bernsoft Interactive Limited P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya Office: +254-703-080-000 Mobile: +254-722-540-883 From:kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko=bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open James ad all Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on. Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375
"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad
On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote: Openness
I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily. The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology. In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA. If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge. Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: @areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to
setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom.
The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@robert Reinventing the wheel is only useful for those with truckloads of cash and little to loose such as Google building their own browser. In the kenyan case building a following like M-pesa would take many more years and considerable effort needlessly. That a significant percentage of the GDP passes through M-Pesa necessitates intervention that may be detrimental to Safaricom's financial or dominant status. Let us not forget what the US govt did to Microsoft. It has to happen for the simple reason of national security. Telling all the other players and consumers to deal with it is not going to cut it. A commercial entity with majority foreign ownership being allowed to transact 30% of our business in a closed system?? Tell me that is not being daft. As I always ask, I wonder what the NSIS thinks of all this. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:52 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi All,
Exactly what is the point of this discussion, as it seems someone wants to say something but is not getting to the point.
What is open, are we suggesting that equity open up its branches and allows me to sell bananas in their banking halls because they have the largest client base or is it that the staffs ethnicity needs to show national diversity or that they should open up their banking software to all and sundry to connect and do as they wish with the client data, exactly what does Equity want Safaricom to make open yet they have mKesho together?
When people start making personal attacks on others for their contributions it suggests a deeper issue than what the subject indicates and it might be better for them to put their cards on the table.
Safaricom is a industry player who partner with a certain nondescript bank called CBA to provide the really kick ass solution, which makes me wonder if what Equity means by Safaricom being open is in which bank holds the deposits.
So from where I am sitting the discussion here has nothing to do with an API, which if you are innovative you do not need, but more a taff war for the deposits that Safaricom holds on mPesa, MShwari and soon mBima, mSoko, mMali, mTV, mVituVingiSana.
Regards
PS. Let us pick a fight we can win like making sure PostaPesa is open
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
------------------------------ *From:* James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 13:50
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open
Bernard
Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean.
Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development?
Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development.
THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system.
This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly.
There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers.
But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy.
What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it.
This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen.
Regards
James
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote:
I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. **** ** ** My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime – this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called “MPESA Instant Payment Notification” originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. **** ** ** Isn’t this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage.**** * * * * *Kind Regards, * * * *Bernard Kioko *Chief Executive Officer** Bernsoft Interactive Limited**** P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya**** Office: +254-703-080-000**** Mobile: +254-722-540-883**** ** ** *From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko= bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Ali Hussein *Sent:* Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM *To:* bkioko@bernsoft.com
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open**** ** ** James ad all**** ** ** Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. **** ** ** Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). **** ** ** Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on.**** ** ** Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. **** Ali Hussein**** CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd**** Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd**** ** ** +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375****
**** "The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb**** ** ** Sent from my iPad****
On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote:****
Openness**** ** ** I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily.**** ** ** The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology.**** ** ** In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA.**** ** ** If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge.**** ** ** Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there.**** ** ** Regards**** ** ** James**** ** ** On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:**** In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. **** ** ** I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. **** ** ** Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. **** ** ** On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:****
@areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom.
The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding.****
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know**** _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet**** Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com** **
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
**** ** ** -- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
****
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.**** ** **
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke
Mark, In view of your comments, I am forced to remind you that MPESA is a Vodafone product. Spanner in the works? Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko=bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Mark Mwangi Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:16 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open @robert Reinventing the wheel is only useful for those with truckloads of cash and little to loose such as Google building their own browser. In the kenyan case building a following like M-pesa would take many more years and considerable effort needlessly. That a significant percentage of the GDP passes through M-Pesa necessitates intervention that may be detrimental to Safaricom's financial or dominant status. Let us not forget what the US govt did to Microsoft. It has to happen for the simple reason of national security. Telling all the other players and consumers to deal with it is not going to cut it. A commercial entity with majority foreign ownership being allowed to transact 30% of our business in a closed system?? Tell me that is not being daft. As I always ask, I wonder what the NSIS thinks of all this. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:52 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi All, Exactly what is the point of this discussion, as it seems someone wants to say something but is not getting to the point. What is open, are we suggesting that equity open up its branches and allows me to sell bananas in their banking halls because they have the largest client base or is it that the staffs ethnicity needs to show national diversity or that they should open up their banking software to all and sundry to connect and do as they wish with the client data, exactly what does Equity want Safaricom to make open yet they have mKesho together? When people start making personal attacks on others for their contributions it suggests a deeper issue than what the subject indicates and it might be better for them to put their cards on the table. Safaricom is a industry player who partner with a certain nondescript bank called CBA to provide the really kick ass solution, which makes me wonder if what Equity means by Safaricom being open is in which bank holds the deposits. So from where I am sitting the discussion here has nothing to do with an API, which if you are innovative you do not need, but more a taff war for the deposits that Safaricom holds on mPesa, MShwari and soon mBima, mSoko, mMali, mTV, mVituVingiSana. Regards PS. Let us pick a fight we can win like making sure PostaPesa is open Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 _____ From: James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 13:50 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open Bernard Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean. Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development? Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development. THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system. This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly. There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers. But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it. This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime - this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called "MPESA Instant Payment Notification" originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. Isn't this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko Chief Executive Officer Bernsoft Interactive Limited P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya Office: +254-703-080-000 Mobile: +254-722-540-883 From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bbkioko> =bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open James ad all Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on. Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375 "The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote: Openness I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily. The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology. In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA. If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge. Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: @areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom. The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke <http://kenya.or.ke/> | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke <http://markmwangi.me.ke/> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co. uk The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke
Bernard I have no problem with Safaricom even making Sh50bn in profits and I am incredibly proud of the achievements of M-PESA. But I have also covered banking and finance and I have never, ever been comfortable with that statement ever since it first surfaced, that 40% of our GDP passes through M-PESA. That is enough to give anyone a pause including those working for Safaricom. The thing is, either we figure out how to lessen this exposure, if we are not going to have more openness of the platform to talk to others, or, the government commission's a new network neutral money transfer system that all operators are obliged to work with and which it uses for its own bulk payments. This new government commissioned system works seamlessly across all platforms but allows each operator to charge their fees for traffic passing through their system. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote:
Mark, ****
** **
In view of your comments, I am forced to remind you that MPESA is a Vodafone product. Spanner in the works?**
* *
*Kind Regards, *
* *
*Bernard Kioko
*****
** **
*From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko= bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Mark Mwangi *Sent:* Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:16 PM
*To:* bkioko@bernsoft.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
** **
@robert****
** **
Reinventing the wheel is only useful for those with truckloads of cash and little to loose such as Google building their own browser. In the kenyan case building a following like M-pesa would take many more years and considerable effort needlessly. That a significant percentage of the GDP passes through M-Pesa necessitates intervention that may be detrimental to Safaricom's financial or dominant status. Let us not forget what the US govt did to Microsoft. It has to happen for the simple reason of national security. ****
** **
Telling all the other players and consumers to deal with it is not going to cut it. A commercial entity with majority foreign ownership being allowed to transact 30% of our business in a closed system?? Tell me that is not being daft. As I always ask, I wonder what the NSIS thinks of all this. ****
****
** **
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:52 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:****
Hi All,
Exactly what is the point of this discussion, as it seems someone wants to say something but is not getting to the point.
What is open, are we suggesting that equity open up its branches and allows me to sell bananas in their banking halls because they have the largest client base or is it that the staffs ethnicity needs to show national diversity or that they should open up their banking software to all and sundry to connect and do as they wish with the client data, exactly what does Equity want Safaricom to make open yet they have mKesho together?
When people start making personal attacks on others for their contributions it suggests a deeper issue than what the subject indicates and it might be better for them to put their cards on the table.
Safaricom is a industry player who partner with a certain nondescript bank called CBA to provide the really kick ass solution, which makes me wonder if what Equity means by Safaricom being open is in which bank holds the deposits.
So from where I am sitting the discussion here has nothing to do with an API, which if you are innovative you do not need, but more a taff war for the deposits that Safaricom holds on mPesa, MShwari and soon mBima, mSoko, mMali, mTV, mVituVingiSana.
Regards
PS. Let us pick a fight we can win like making sure PostaPesa is open****
****
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya****
** **
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696****
** ** ------------------------------
*From:* James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 13:50****
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
** **
Bernard****
** **
Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean.* ***
** **
Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development?****
** **
Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development.****
** **
THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system.****
** **
This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly.****
** **
There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers.****
** **
But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. ****
** **
What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it.****
** **
This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen.****
** **
Regards****
** **
James****
** **
** **
** **
** **
** **
** **
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote:****
I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. ****
****
My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime – this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called “MPESA Instant Payment Notification” originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. ****
****
Isn’t this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage.****
* *****
* *****
*Kind Regards, *****
* *****
*Bernard Kioko *Chief Executive Officer****
Bernsoft Interactive Limited****
P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya****
Office: +254-703-080-000****
Mobile: +254-722-540-883****
****
*From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko= bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Ali Hussein *Sent:* Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM *To:* bkioko@bernsoft.com****
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions****
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
****
James ad all****
****
Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. ****
****
Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). ****
****
Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on.****
****
Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. ****
Ali Hussein****
CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd****
Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd****
****
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** **
"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb****
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Sent from my iPad****
On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote:****
Openness****
****
I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily.****
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The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology.****
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In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA.****
****
If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge.****
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Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there.****
****
Regards****
****
James****
****
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:****
In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. ****
****
I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. ****
****
Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. ****
****
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:****
@areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom.
The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding.****
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@bernard I had not forgotten this but this does not mean that we should now wash our hands because mighty Vodafone is behind it. In fact as a matter of national security shouldn't this hasten the government to insist on their opening up or openly/covertly fund an alternative? Would China, Russia or even France and the UK allow an American firm to transact 30% of their GDP? @robert All banks in Kenya foreign owned or not are regulated by the central bank and as such fall under its rules and the law of the land. Safaricom and M-pesa are a special case and are basically Prof. Ndungu's experiment to see how it goes. I do not understand why we are comfortable with servers sitting in Europe transacting our business. For me this is not a technology issue but a legal and political one. And just for the record,we do not owe Safaricom anything and vice versa. They are a commercial entity and we consume their services selfishly. It is simple trade. Their monolithic nature is dangerous nonetheless and they need to be regulated. There are reasons this was not launched in more mature economies. Let Safaricom have more profits(I am a minute shareholder) but monolithic control is a bad thing any way you slice it. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:57 PM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote:
Bernard
I have no problem with Safaricom even making Sh50bn in profits and I am incredibly proud of the achievements of M-PESA.
But I have also covered banking and finance and I have never, ever been comfortable with that statement ever since it first surfaced, that 40% of our GDP passes through M-PESA. That is enough to give anyone a pause including those working for Safaricom.
The thing is, either we figure out how to lessen this exposure, if we are not going to have more openness of the platform to talk to others, or, the government commission's a new network neutral money transfer system that all operators are obliged to work with and which it uses for its own bulk payments.
This new government commissioned system works seamlessly across all platforms but allows each operator to charge their fees for traffic passing through their system.
Regards
James
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote:
Mark, ****
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In view of your comments, I am forced to remind you that MPESA is a Vodafone product. Spanner in the works?**
* *
*Kind Regards, *
* *
*Bernard Kioko
*****
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*From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko= bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Mark Mwangi *Sent:* Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:16 PM
*To:* bkioko@bernsoft.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
** **
@robert****
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Reinventing the wheel is only useful for those with truckloads of cash and little to loose such as Google building their own browser. In the kenyan case building a following like M-pesa would take many more years and considerable effort needlessly. That a significant percentage of the GDP passes through M-Pesa necessitates intervention that may be detrimental to Safaricom's financial or dominant status. Let us not forget what the US govt did to Microsoft. It has to happen for the simple reason of national security. ****
** **
Telling all the other players and consumers to deal with it is not going to cut it. A commercial entity with majority foreign ownership being allowed to transact 30% of our business in a closed system?? Tell me that is not being daft. As I always ask, I wonder what the NSIS thinks of all this. ****
****
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On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:52 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:****
Hi All,
Exactly what is the point of this discussion, as it seems someone wants to say something but is not getting to the point.
What is open, are we suggesting that equity open up its branches and allows me to sell bananas in their banking halls because they have the largest client base or is it that the staffs ethnicity needs to show national diversity or that they should open up their banking software to all and sundry to connect and do as they wish with the client data, exactly what does Equity want Safaricom to make open yet they have mKesho together?
When people start making personal attacks on others for their contributions it suggests a deeper issue than what the subject indicates and it might be better for them to put their cards on the table.
Safaricom is a industry player who partner with a certain nondescript bank called CBA to provide the really kick ass solution, which makes me wonder if what Equity means by Safaricom being open is in which bank holds the deposits.
So from where I am sitting the discussion here has nothing to do with an API, which if you are innovative you do not need, but more a taff war for the deposits that Safaricom holds on mPesa, MShwari and soon mBima, mSoko, mMali, mTV, mVituVingiSana.
Regards
PS. Let us pick a fight we can win like making sure PostaPesa is open*** *
****
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya****
** **
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696****
** ** ------------------------------
*From:* James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 13:50****
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
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Bernard****
** **
Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean.****
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Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development?****
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Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development.****
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THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system.****
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This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly.****
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There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers.****
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But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. ****
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What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it.****
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This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen.****
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Regards****
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James****
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On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote:****
I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. ****
****
My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime – this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called “MPESA Instant Payment Notification” originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. ****
****
Isn’t this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage.****
* *****
* *****
*Kind Regards, *****
* *****
*Bernard Kioko *Chief Executive Officer****
Bernsoft Interactive Limited****
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Office: +254-703-080-000****
Mobile: +254-722-540-883****
****
*From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko= bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Ali Hussein *Sent:* Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM *To:* bkioko@bernsoft.com****
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions****
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
****
James ad all****
****
Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. ****
****
Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). ****
****
Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on.****
****
Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. ****
Ali Hussein****
CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd****
Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd****
****
+254 713 601113/ 0770 906375****
** **
"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb****
****
Sent from my iPad****
On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote:****
Openness****
****
I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily.****
****
The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology.****
****
In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA.****
****
If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge.****
****
Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there.****
****
Regards****
****
James****
****
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:****
In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. ****
****
I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. *** *
****
Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. ****
****
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:****
@areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom.
The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding.****
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On a lighter note: "Safaricom is a Kenyan company owned by Gov, Kenyans and Vodafone and is doing so well that 30% of the GDP is transacted through their MPESA service." - That's how I always see Safaricom. Am I too obsessed with the positive to the point I am missing the risks? Are the risks not that 30% could have been on a foreign company called Airtel or Essar or French telecom company? Somehow, I feel some comfort that its Safaricom. A company I watched start..and grow with us here! One that struggled through "peculiarity" to achieve enormous success. As I said, on a lighter note. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko=bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Mark Mwangi Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 5:21 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open @bernard I had not forgotten this but this does not mean that we should now wash our hands because mighty Vodafone is behind it. In fact as a matter of national security shouldn't this hasten the government to insist on their opening up or openly/covertly fund an alternative? Would China, Russia or even France and the UK allow an American firm to transact 30% of their GDP? @robert All banks in Kenya foreign owned or not are regulated by the central bank and as such fall under its rules and the law of the land. Safaricom and M-pesa are a special case and are basically Prof. Ndungu's experiment to see how it goes. I do not understand why we are comfortable with servers sitting in Europe transacting our business. For me this is not a technology issue but a legal and political one. And just for the record,we do not owe Safaricom anything and vice versa. They are a commercial entity and we consume their services selfishly. It is simple trade. Their monolithic nature is dangerous nonetheless and they need to be regulated. There are reasons this was not launched in more mature economies. Let Safaricom have more profits(I am a minute shareholder) but monolithic control is a bad thing any way you slice it. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:57 PM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote: Bernard I have no problem with Safaricom even making Sh50bn in profits and I am incredibly proud of the achievements of M-PESA. But I have also covered banking and finance and I have never, ever been comfortable with that statement ever since it first surfaced, that 40% of our GDP passes through M-PESA. That is enough to give anyone a pause including those working for Safaricom. The thing is, either we figure out how to lessen this exposure, if we are not going to have more openness of the platform to talk to others, or, the government commission's a new network neutral money transfer system that all operators are obliged to work with and which it uses for its own bulk payments. This new government commissioned system works seamlessly across all platforms but allows each operator to charge their fees for traffic passing through their system. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: Mark, In view of your comments, I am forced to remind you that MPESA is a Vodafone product. Spanner in the works? Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bbkioko> =bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Mark Mwangi Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:16 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open @robert Reinventing the wheel is only useful for those with truckloads of cash and little to loose such as Google building their own browser. In the kenyan case building a following like M-pesa would take many more years and considerable effort needlessly. That a significant percentage of the GDP passes through M-Pesa necessitates intervention that may be detrimental to Safaricom's financial or dominant status. Let us not forget what the US govt did to Microsoft. It has to happen for the simple reason of national security. Telling all the other players and consumers to deal with it is not going to cut it. A commercial entity with majority foreign ownership being allowed to transact 30% of our business in a closed system?? Tell me that is not being daft. As I always ask, I wonder what the NSIS thinks of all this. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:52 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi All, Exactly what is the point of this discussion, as it seems someone wants to say something but is not getting to the point. What is open, are we suggesting that equity open up its branches and allows me to sell bananas in their banking halls because they have the largest client base or is it that the staffs ethnicity needs to show national diversity or that they should open up their banking software to all and sundry to connect and do as they wish with the client data, exactly what does Equity want Safaricom to make open yet they have mKesho together? When people start making personal attacks on others for their contributions it suggests a deeper issue than what the subject indicates and it might be better for them to put their cards on the table. Safaricom is a industry player who partner with a certain nondescript bank called CBA to provide the really kick ass solution, which makes me wonder if what Equity means by Safaricom being open is in which bank holds the deposits. So from where I am sitting the discussion here has nothing to do with an API, which if you are innovative you do not need, but more a taff war for the deposits that Safaricom holds on mPesa, MShwari and soon mBima, mSoko, mMali, mTV, mVituVingiSana. Regards PS. Let us pick a fight we can win like making sure PostaPesa is open Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225 <tel:%2B254722511225> , +254202010696 <tel:%2B254202010696> _____ From: James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 13:50 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open Bernard Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean. Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development? Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development. THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system. This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly. There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers. But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it. This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime - this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called "MPESA Instant Payment Notification" originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. Isn't this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko Chief Executive Officer Bernsoft Interactive Limited P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya Office: +254-703-080-000 <tel:%2B254-703-080-000> Mobile: +254-722-540-883 <tel:%2B254-722-540-883> From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bbkioko> =bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open James ad all Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on. Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375 "The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote: Openness I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily. The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology. In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA. If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge. Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: @areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom. The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke <http://kenya.or.ke/> | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke <http://markmwangi.me.ke/> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co. uk The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke
All, Maybe it's just me jumping late into the fray, or it's just another lighter side of this whole animated debate..!. Just taking a cursory glance again at the thread subject, would it be correct to state -"Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open"..? Maybe it is just me again, but ladies and gentlemen, am not sure which "M-Pesa lines" need to be opened up....? I just seem not able to connect the lines and M-PESA. The discussion header is a little misleading and could do some injustice to a subject of great value and importance now, and to future Kictanet archives trawlers .. Perhaps should we not be debating animatedly as we are, under a thread along the "lines" - " M-PESA platform should open up"..? Ok, without clouding the debate with matters semantic, this was just me checking in on the lighter side of this ongoing discussion.. Harry From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 5:32 PM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open On a lighter note: "Safaricom is a Kenyan company owned by Gov, Kenyans and Vodafone and is doing so well that 30% of the GDP is transacted through their MPESA service." - That's how I always see Safaricom. Am I too obsessed with the positive to the point I am missing the risks? Are the risks not that 30% could have been on a foreign company called Airtel or Essar or French telecom company? Somehow, I feel some comfort that its Safaricom. A company I watched start..and grow with us here! One that struggled through "peculiarity" to achieve enormous success. As I said, on a lighter note. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko=bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Mark Mwangi Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 5:21 PM" To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open @bernard I had not forgotten this but this does not mean that we should now wash our hands because mighty Vodafone is behind it. In fact as a matter of national security shouldn't this hasten the government to insist on their opening up or openly/covertly fund an alternative? Would China, Russia or even France and the UK allow an American firm to transact 30% of their GDP? @robert All banks in Kenya foreign owned or not are regulated by the central bank and as such fall under its rules and the law of the land. Safaricom and M-pesa are a special case and are basically Prof. Ndungu's experiment to see how it goes. I do not understand why we are comfortable with servers sitting in Europe transacting our business. For me this is not a technology issue but a legal and political one. And just for the record,we do not owe Safaricom anything and vice versa. They are a commercial entity and we consume their services selfishly. It is simple trade. Their monolithic nature is dangerous nonetheless and they need to be regulated. There are reasons this was not launched in more mature economies. Let Safaricom have more profits(I am a minute shareholder) but monolithic control is a bad thing any way you slice it. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:57 PM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote: Bernard I have no problem with Safaricom even making Sh50bn in profits and I am incredibly proud of the achievements of M-PESA. But I have also covered banking and finance and I have never, ever been comfortable with that statement ever since it first surfaced, that 40% of our GDP passes through M-PESA. That is enough to give anyone a pause including those working for Safaricom. The thing is, either we figure out how to lessen this exposure, if we are not going to have more openness of the platform to talk to others, or, the government commission's a new network neutral money transfer system that all operators are obliged to work with and which it uses for its own bulk payments. This new government commissioned system works seamlessly across all platforms but allows each operator to charge their fees for traffic passing through their system. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: Mark, In view of your comments, I am forced to remind you that MPESA is a Vodafone product. Spanner in the works? Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bbkioko> =bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Mark Mwangi Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:16 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open @robert Reinventing the wheel is only useful for those with truckloads of cash and little to loose such as Google building their own browser. In the kenyan case building a following like M-pesa would take many more years and considerable effort needlessly. That a significant percentage of the GDP passes through M-Pesa necessitates intervention that may be detrimental to Safaricom's financial or dominant status. Let us not forget what the US govt did to Microsoft. It has to happen for the simple reason of national security. Telling all the other players and consumers to deal with it is not going to cut it. A commercial entity with majority foreign ownership being allowed to transact 30% of our business in a closed system?? Tell me that is not being daft. As I always ask, I wonder what the NSIS thinks of all this. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:52 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi All, Exactly what is the point of this discussion, as it seems someone wants to say something but is not getting to the point. What is open, are we suggesting that equity open up its branches and allows me to sell bananas in their banking halls because they have the largest client base or is it that the staffs ethnicity needs to show national diversity or that they should open up their banking software to all and sundry to connect and do as they wish with the client data, exactly what does Equity want Safaricom to make open yet they have mKesho together? When people start making personal attacks on others for their contributions it suggests a deeper issue than what the subject indicates and it might be better for them to put their cards on the table. Safaricom is a industry player who partner with a certain nondescript bank called CBA to provide the really kick ass solution, which makes me wonder if what Equity means by Safaricom being open is in which bank holds the deposits. So from where I am sitting the discussion here has nothing to do with an API, which if you are innovative you do not need, but more a taff war for the deposits that Safaricom holds on mPesa, MShwari and soon mBima, mSoko, mMali, mTV, mVituVingiSana. Regards PS. Let us pick a fight we can win like making sure PostaPesa is open Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225 <tel:%2B254722511225> , +254202010696 <tel:%2B254202010696> _____ From: James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 13:50 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open Bernard Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean. Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development? Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development. THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system. This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly. There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers. But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it. This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime - this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called "MPESA Instant Payment Notification" originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. Isn't this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko Chief Executive Officer Bernsoft Interactive Limited P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya Office: +254-703-080-000 <tel:%2B254-703-080-000> Mobile: +254-722-540-883 <tel:%2B254-722-540-883> From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bbkioko> =bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open James ad all Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on. Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375 "The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote: Openness I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily. The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology. In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA. If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge. Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: @areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom. The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke <http://kenya.or.ke/> | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke <http://markmwangi.me.ke/> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co. uk The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke
40% of our GDP passes through MPESA..maybe something is wrong with me but I keep thinking BIG opportunity for anyone..I would like to have 5% of the GDP pass through a product of mine...i would define that as success for me. Did you know MPESA's biggest competition is not Airtel Money or YuCash or Orange Money.its little known Tangaza Money Transfer service.. Am also wondering..isn't KPLC powering more than 40% of our GDP (not sure of the numbers). Have you considered how many people are on Facebook in the world.over 1 billion yet the world population is 7billion. Shutdown Facebook and you will see what happens - consider that it's a market place. Is the US Government busy splitting Facebook? No. Most banks have big budgets, enough to create a product like MPESA and make it do well - if Tangaza Money is doing well under the same environment and they are not even a bank. My point is, let Safaricom and their MPESA service be. Create a value proposition/innovation to Safaricom/Vodafone and see if they will agree or not to open up MPESA to you. Also, lest we forget, afew years ago, banks resisted MPESA's existence and had CBK listened to them, we wouldn't have MPESA today. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko From: James Mbugua [mailto:jgmbugua@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:58 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open Bernard I have no problem with Safaricom even making Sh50bn in profits and I am incredibly proud of the achievements of M-PESA. But I have also covered banking and finance and I have never, ever been comfortable with that statement ever since it first surfaced, that 40% of our GDP passes through M-PESA. That is enough to give anyone a pause including those working for Safaricom. The thing is, either we figure out how to lessen this exposure, if we are not going to have more openness of the platform to talk to others, or, the government commission's a new network neutral money transfer system that all operators are obliged to work with and which it uses for its own bulk payments. This new government commissioned system works seamlessly across all platforms but allows each operator to charge their fees for traffic passing through their system. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: Mark, In view of your comments, I am forced to remind you that MPESA is a Vodafone product. Spanner in the works? Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bbkioko> =bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Mark Mwangi Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:16 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open @robert Reinventing the wheel is only useful for those with truckloads of cash and little to loose such as Google building their own browser. In the kenyan case building a following like M-pesa would take many more years and considerable effort needlessly. That a significant percentage of the GDP passes through M-Pesa necessitates intervention that may be detrimental to Safaricom's financial or dominant status. Let us not forget what the US govt did to Microsoft. It has to happen for the simple reason of national security. Telling all the other players and consumers to deal with it is not going to cut it. A commercial entity with majority foreign ownership being allowed to transact 30% of our business in a closed system?? Tell me that is not being daft. As I always ask, I wonder what the NSIS thinks of all this. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:52 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi All, Exactly what is the point of this discussion, as it seems someone wants to say something but is not getting to the point. What is open, are we suggesting that equity open up its branches and allows me to sell bananas in their banking halls because they have the largest client base or is it that the staffs ethnicity needs to show national diversity or that they should open up their banking software to all and sundry to connect and do as they wish with the client data, exactly what does Equity want Safaricom to make open yet they have mKesho together? When people start making personal attacks on others for their contributions it suggests a deeper issue than what the subject indicates and it might be better for them to put their cards on the table. Safaricom is a industry player who partner with a certain nondescript bank called CBA to provide the really kick ass solution, which makes me wonder if what Equity means by Safaricom being open is in which bank holds the deposits. So from where I am sitting the discussion here has nothing to do with an API, which if you are innovative you do not need, but more a taff war for the deposits that Safaricom holds on mPesa, MShwari and soon mBima, mSoko, mMali, mTV, mVituVingiSana. Regards PS. Let us pick a fight we can win like making sure PostaPesa is open Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225 <tel:%2B254722511225> , +254202010696 <tel:%2B254202010696> _____ From: James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 13:50 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open Bernard Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean. Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development? Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development. THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system. This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly. There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers. But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it. This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime - this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called "MPESA Instant Payment Notification" originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. Isn't this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko Chief Executive Officer Bernsoft Interactive Limited P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya Office: +254-703-080-000 <tel:%2B254-703-080-000> Mobile: +254-722-540-883 <tel:%2B254-722-540-883> From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bbkioko> =bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open James ad all Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on. Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375 "The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote: Openness I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily. The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology. In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA. If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge. Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: @areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom. The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke <http://kenya.or.ke/> | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke <http://markmwangi.me.ke/> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co. uk The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Bernard We are arguing past each other. If Safaricom's MPESA is a payment system, then let it charge transaction fees for that. It is not about creating a value proposition for them because then they are both taking transaction fees but also eating your innovation. Just like writing a webpage and including Visa or MasterCard payment option is as easy as ABC so long as they charge you their transaction fees for anything you see via that option, MPESA has no business knowing what the value proposition of my business is, just charge me the transaction fees even if I am selling shambas at a loss - it is not their business to know the business case of my business, I wonder if we are getting each other. Either it is a payment system, or it is an online store which stocks the services it wants. In the latter case, then different regulatory systems including VAT for provision of value added services would apply. That aside, my main concern is with exposure to the system even though Central Bank has ordered them to relocate their servers to Kenya. James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote:
40% of our GDP passes through MPESA….maybe something is wrong with me but I keep thinking BIG opportunity for anyone……I would like to have 5% of the GDP pass through a product of mine…..i would define that as success for me. ****
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Did you know MPESA’s biggest competition is not Airtel Money or YuCash or Orange Money…its little known Tangaza Money Transfer service….****
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Am also wondering….isn’t KPLC powering more than 40% of our GDP (not sure of the numbers). Have you considered how many people are on Facebook in the world…over 1 billion yet the world population is 7billion. Shutdown Facebook and you will see what happens – consider that it’s a market place. Is the US Government busy splitting Facebook? No.****
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Most banks have big budgets, enough to create a product like MPESA and make it do well – if Tangaza Money is doing well under the same environment and they are not even a bank.****
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My point is, let Safaricom and their MPESA service be. Create a value proposition/innovation to Safaricom/Vodafone and see if they will agree or not to open up MPESA to you. ****
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Also, lest we forget, afew years ago, banks resisted MPESA’s existence and had CBK listened to them, we wouldn’t have MPESA today. ****
** **
*Kind Regards, *
* *
*Bernard Kioko
*****
** **
*From:* James Mbugua [mailto:jgmbugua@gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:58 PM
*To:* bkioko@bernsoft.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
** **
Bernard****
** **
I have no problem with Safaricom even making Sh50bn in profits and I am incredibly proud of the achievements of M-PESA.****
** **
But I have also covered banking and finance and I have never, ever been comfortable with that statement ever since it first surfaced, that 40% of our GDP passes through M-PESA. That is enough to give anyone a pause including those working for Safaricom.****
** **
The thing is, either we figure out how to lessen this exposure, if we are not going to have more openness of the platform to talk to others, or, the government commission's a new network neutral money transfer system that all operators are obliged to work with and which it uses for its own bulk payments.****
** **
This new government commissioned system works seamlessly across all platforms but allows each operator to charge their fees for traffic passing through their system. ****
** **
Regards****
** **
James****
** **
** **
** **
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote:****
Mark, ****
****
In view of your comments, I am forced to remind you that MPESA is a Vodafone product. Spanner in the works?****
* *****
*Kind Regards, *****
* *****
*Bernard Kioko*****
****
*From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko= bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Mark Mwangi *Sent:* Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:16 PM****
*To:* bkioko@bernsoft.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
****
@robert****
****
Reinventing the wheel is only useful for those with truckloads of cash and little to loose such as Google building their own browser. In the kenyan case building a following like M-pesa would take many more years and considerable effort needlessly. That a significant percentage of the GDP passes through M-Pesa necessitates intervention that may be detrimental to Safaricom's financial or dominant status. Let us not forget what the US govt did to Microsoft. It has to happen for the simple reason of national security. ****
****
Telling all the other players and consumers to deal with it is not going to cut it. A commercial entity with majority foreign ownership being allowed to transact 30% of our business in a closed system?? Tell me that is not being daft. As I always ask, I wonder what the NSIS thinks of all this. ****
****
****
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:52 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:****
Hi All,
Exactly what is the point of this discussion, as it seems someone wants to say something but is not getting to the point.
What is open, are we suggesting that equity open up its branches and allows me to sell bananas in their banking halls because they have the largest client base or is it that the staffs ethnicity needs to show national diversity or that they should open up their banking software to all and sundry to connect and do as they wish with the client data, exactly what does Equity want Safaricom to make open yet they have mKesho together?
When people start making personal attacks on others for their contributions it suggests a deeper issue than what the subject indicates and it might be better for them to put their cards on the table.
Safaricom is a industry player who partner with a certain nondescript bank called CBA to provide the really kick ass solution, which makes me wonder if what Equity means by Safaricom being open is in which bank holds the deposits.
So from where I am sitting the discussion here has nothing to do with an API, which if you are innovative you do not need, but more a taff war for the deposits that Safaricom holds on mPesa, MShwari and soon mBima, mSoko, mMali, mTV, mVituVingiSana.
Regards
PS. Let us pick a fight we can win like making sure PostaPesa is open****
****
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya****
****
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696****
**** ------------------------------
*From:* James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 13:50****
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
****
Bernard****
****
Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean.* ***
****
Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development?****
****
Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development.****
****
THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system.****
****
This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly.****
****
There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers.****
****
But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. ****
****
What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it.****
****
This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen.****
****
Regards****
****
James****
****
****
****
****
****
****
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote:****
I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. ****
****
My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime – this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called “MPESA Instant Payment Notification” originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. ****
****
Isn’t this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage.****
* *****
* *****
*Kind Regards, *****
* *****
*Bernard Kioko *Chief Executive Officer****
Bernsoft Interactive Limited****
P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya****
Office: +254-703-080-000****
Mobile: +254-722-540-883****
****
*From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko= bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Ali Hussein *Sent:* Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM *To:* bkioko@bernsoft.com****
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions****
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
****
James ad all****
****
Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. ****
****
Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). ****
****
Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on.****
****
Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. ****
Ali Hussein****
CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd****
Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd****
****
+254 713 601113/ 0770 906375****
****
"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb****
****
Sent from my iPad****
On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote:****
Openness****
****
I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily.****
****
The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology.****
****
In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA.****
****
If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge.****
****
Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there.****
****
Regards****
****
James****
****
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:****
In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. ****
****
I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. ****
****
Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. ****
****
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:****
@areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom.
The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding.****
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** **
James, we are not arguing I hope. We are just sharing opinions. I for one don't have much experience and expertise to be able to argue on this matter. My view is, what we are asking Safaricom to do, they are already doing. We are just not seeing that or Safaricom has for some reason failed to tell everyone that. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko From: James Mbugua [mailto:jgmbugua@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 5:33 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open Bernard We are arguing past each other. If Safaricom's MPESA is a payment system, then let it charge transaction fees for that. It is not about creating a value proposition for them because then they are both taking transaction fees but also eating your innovation. Just like writing a webpage and including Visa or MasterCard payment option is as easy as ABC so long as they charge you their transaction fees for anything you see via that option, MPESA has no business knowing what the value proposition of my business is, just charge me the transaction fees even if I am selling shambas at a loss - it is not their business to know the business case of my business, I wonder if we are getting each other. Either it is a payment system, or it is an online store which stocks the services it wants. In the latter case, then different regulatory systems including VAT for provision of value added services would apply. That aside, my main concern is with exposure to the system even though Central Bank has ordered them to relocate their servers to Kenya. James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: 40% of our GDP passes through MPESA..maybe something is wrong with me but I keep thinking BIG opportunity for anyone..I would like to have 5% of the GDP pass through a product of mine...i would define that as success for me. Did you know MPESA's biggest competition is not Airtel Money or YuCash or Orange Money.its little known Tangaza Money Transfer service.. Am also wondering..isn't KPLC powering more than 40% of our GDP (not sure of the numbers). Have you considered how many people are on Facebook in the world.over 1 billion yet the world population is 7billion. Shutdown Facebook and you will see what happens - consider that it's a market place. Is the US Government busy splitting Facebook? No. Most banks have big budgets, enough to create a product like MPESA and make it do well - if Tangaza Money is doing well under the same environment and they are not even a bank. My point is, let Safaricom and their MPESA service be. Create a value proposition/innovation to Safaricom/Vodafone and see if they will agree or not to open up MPESA to you. Also, lest we forget, afew years ago, banks resisted MPESA's existence and had CBK listened to them, we wouldn't have MPESA today. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko From: James Mbugua [mailto:jgmbugua@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:58 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open Bernard I have no problem with Safaricom even making Sh50bn in profits and I am incredibly proud of the achievements of M-PESA. But I have also covered banking and finance and I have never, ever been comfortable with that statement ever since it first surfaced, that 40% of our GDP passes through M-PESA. That is enough to give anyone a pause including those working for Safaricom. The thing is, either we figure out how to lessen this exposure, if we are not going to have more openness of the platform to talk to others, or, the government commission's a new network neutral money transfer system that all operators are obliged to work with and which it uses for its own bulk payments. This new government commissioned system works seamlessly across all platforms but allows each operator to charge their fees for traffic passing through their system. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: Mark, In view of your comments, I am forced to remind you that MPESA is a Vodafone product. Spanner in the works? Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bbkioko> =bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Mark Mwangi Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:16 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open @robert Reinventing the wheel is only useful for those with truckloads of cash and little to loose such as Google building their own browser. In the kenyan case building a following like M-pesa would take many more years and considerable effort needlessly. That a significant percentage of the GDP passes through M-Pesa necessitates intervention that may be detrimental to Safaricom's financial or dominant status. Let us not forget what the US govt did to Microsoft. It has to happen for the simple reason of national security. Telling all the other players and consumers to deal with it is not going to cut it. A commercial entity with majority foreign ownership being allowed to transact 30% of our business in a closed system?? Tell me that is not being daft. As I always ask, I wonder what the NSIS thinks of all this. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:52 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi All, Exactly what is the point of this discussion, as it seems someone wants to say something but is not getting to the point. What is open, are we suggesting that equity open up its branches and allows me to sell bananas in their banking halls because they have the largest client base or is it that the staffs ethnicity needs to show national diversity or that they should open up their banking software to all and sundry to connect and do as they wish with the client data, exactly what does Equity want Safaricom to make open yet they have mKesho together? When people start making personal attacks on others for their contributions it suggests a deeper issue than what the subject indicates and it might be better for them to put their cards on the table. Safaricom is a industry player who partner with a certain nondescript bank called CBA to provide the really kick ass solution, which makes me wonder if what Equity means by Safaricom being open is in which bank holds the deposits. So from where I am sitting the discussion here has nothing to do with an API, which if you are innovative you do not need, but more a taff war for the deposits that Safaricom holds on mPesa, MShwari and soon mBima, mSoko, mMali, mTV, mVituVingiSana. Regards PS. Let us pick a fight we can win like making sure PostaPesa is open Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225 <tel:%2B254722511225> , +254202010696 <tel:%2B254202010696> _____ From: James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 13:50 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open Bernard Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean. Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development? Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development. THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system. This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly. There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers. But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it. This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime - this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called "MPESA Instant Payment Notification" originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. Isn't this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko Chief Executive Officer Bernsoft Interactive Limited P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya Office: +254-703-080-000 <tel:%2B254-703-080-000> Mobile: +254-722-540-883 <tel:%2B254-722-540-883> From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bbkioko> =bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open James ad all Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on. Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375 "The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote: Openness I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily. The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology. In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA. If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge. Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: @areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom. The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke <http://kenya.or.ke/> | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke <http://markmwangi.me.ke/> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co. uk The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@Mark, For many years the largest banks in Kenya where all foreign owned, oops they still are and they transact mush more than Safaricom does, let us come up with holistic solutions and stop using Safaricom as a scape goat for our inability to be innovative, dedicated and committed to anything other than watching foreign soccer and cheering people who cannot hear us. Why aren't you asking Barclays Bank to become more open and transfer their servers to Kenya or f*** it lets go for the jugular, we need "Kenya Breweries" a.k.a. East Africa Breweries to open up so as to allow Keroche (who we do not support because they are 100% locally owned) to buy bale from the farmers that KBL have developed by supporting them financially, technically and psychologically because only KBL have the resources to develop such a vast supply chain and it will take anyone else years to do the same. The mPesa innovation has matured lets go to the drawing board and concentrate on the definite next big thing, mPesa is like electricity now, a utility, so just use it to make your life more comfortable as you pursue other interests. Safaricom was a small little company trying to sell 1st world services to a 3rd world country and now that they have made us better we are doing what we do best "kicking them in the teeth". Regards Disclaimer: This post may have been paid for by one of the companies mentioned either in good or bad light in cash, kind, or arm twisting Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 16:15 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open @robert Reinventing the wheel is only useful for those with truckloads of cash and little to loose such as Google building their own browser. In the kenyan case building a following like M-pesa would take many more years and considerable effort needlessly. That a significant percentage of the GDP passes through M-Pesa necessitates intervention that may be detrimental to Safaricom's financial or dominant status. Let us not forget what the US govt did to Microsoft. It has to happen for the simple reason of national security. Telling all the other players and consumers to deal with it is not going to cut it. A commercial entity with majority foreign ownership being allowed to transact 30% of our business in a closed system?? Tell me that is not being daft. As I always ask, I wonder what the NSIS thinks of all this. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:52 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi All,
Exactly what is the point of this discussion, as it seems someone wants to say something but is not getting to the point.
What is open, are we suggesting that equity open up its branches and allows me to sell bananas in their banking halls because they have the largest client base or is it that the staffs ethnicity needs to show national diversity or that they should open up their banking software to all and sundry to connect and do as they wish with the client data, exactly what does Equity want Safaricom to make open yet they have mKesho together?
When people start making personal attacks on others for their contributions it suggests a deeper issue than what the subject indicates and it might be better for them to put their cards on the table.
Safaricom is a industry player who partner
with a certain nondescript bank called CBA to provide the really kick ass solution, which makes me wonder if what Equity means by Safaricom being open is in which bank holds the deposits.
So from where I am sitting the discussion here has nothing to do with an API, which if you are innovative you do not need, but more a taff war for the deposits that Safaricom holds on mPesa, MShwari and soon mBima, mSoko, mMali, mTV, mVituVingiSana.
Regards
PS. Let us pick a fight we can win like making sure PostaPesa is open
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 13:50
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open
Bernard
Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean.
Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development?
Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development.
THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system.
This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly.
There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers.
But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy.
What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it.
This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen.
Regards
James
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote:
I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences.
My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime – this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called “MPESA Instant Payment Notification” originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. Isn’t this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko Chief Executive Officer Bernsoft Interactive Limited P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya Office: +254-703-080-000 Mobile: +254-722-540-883 From:kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko=bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open James ad all Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on. Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375
"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad
On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote: Openness
I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily. The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology. In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA. If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge. Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: @areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to
setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom.
The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same
standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke
@Robert, Hehehehe….Who is paying for posts, I could do with some payment… Lol! Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko=bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of robert yawe Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:56 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open @Mark, For many years the largest banks in Kenya where all foreign owned, oops they still are and they transact mush more than Safaricom does, let us come up with holistic solutions and stop using Safaricom as a scape goat for our inability to be innovative, dedicated and committed to anything other than watching foreign soccer and cheering people who cannot hear us. Why aren't you asking Barclays Bank to become more open and transfer their servers to Kenya or f*** it lets go for the jugular, we need "Kenya Breweries" a.k.a. East Africa Breweries to open up so as to allow Keroche (who we do not support because they are 100% locally owned) to buy bale from the farmers that KBL have developed by supporting them financially, technically and psychologically because only KBL have the resources to develop such a vast supply chain and it will take anyone else years to do the same. The mPesa innovation has matured lets go to the drawing board and concentrate on the definite next big thing, mPesa is like electricity now, a utility, so just use it to make your life more comfortable as you pursue other interests. Safaricom was a small little company trying to sell 1st world services to a 3rd world country and now that they have made us better we are doing what we do best "kicking them in the teeth". Regards Disclaimer: This post may have been paid for by one of the companies mentioned either in good or bad light in cash, kind, or arm twisting Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 _____ From: Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 16:15 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open @robert Reinventing the wheel is only useful for those with truckloads of cash and little to loose such as Google building their own browser. In the kenyan case building a following like M-pesa would take many more years and considerable effort needlessly. That a significant percentage of the GDP passes through M-Pesa necessitates intervention that may be detrimental to Safaricom's financial or dominant status. Let us not forget what the US govt did to Microsoft. It has to happen for the simple reason of national security. Telling all the other players and consumers to deal with it is not going to cut it. A commercial entity with majority foreign ownership being allowed to transact 30% of our business in a closed system?? Tell me that is not being daft. As I always ask, I wonder what the NSIS thinks of all this. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:52 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi All, Exactly what is the point of this discussion, as it seems someone wants to say something but is not getting to the point. What is open, are we suggesting that equity open up its branches and allows me to sell bananas in their banking halls because they have the largest client base or is it that the staffs ethnicity needs to show national diversity or that they should open up their banking software to all and sundry to connect and do as they wish with the client data, exactly what does Equity want Safaricom to make open yet they have mKesho together? When people start making personal attacks on others for their contributions it suggests a deeper issue than what the subject indicates and it might be better for them to put their cards on the table. Safaricom is a industry player who partner with a certain nondescript bank called CBA to provide the really kick ass solution, which makes me wonder if what Equity means by Safaricom being open is in which bank holds the deposits. So from where I am sitting the discussion here has nothing to do with an API, which if you are innovative you do not need, but more a taff war for the deposits that Safaricom holds on mPesa, MShwari and soon mBima, mSoko, mMali, mTV, mVituVingiSana. Regards PS. Let us pick a fight we can win like making sure PostaPesa is open Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 _____ From: James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 13:50 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open Bernard Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean. Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development? Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development. THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system. This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly. There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers. But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it. This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime – this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called “MPESA Instant Payment Notification” originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. Isn’t this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko Chief Executive Officer Bernsoft Interactive Limited P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya Office: +254-703-080-000 Mobile: +254-722-540-883 From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bbkioko> =bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open James ad all Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on. Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375 "The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote: Openness I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily. The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology. In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA. If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge. Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: @areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom. The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke <http://kenya.or.ke/> | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke <http://markmwangi.me.ke/> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke <http://markmwangi.me.ke/>
There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment >platform for
@ James G. Mbugua, jst reading this... I do have to google you - we may have been brothers in our previous lives..this statement from you is straight from my mind and I quote: their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury I personally think Safcom can double or triple its MPESA revenues if they crossed that mental shift and "liberally" allowed innovations to happen at the edge rather than at the center, as they simply collect commissions appropriately. I know intellectual or trade secrets have been cited as a way of limiting the APIs or not publishing them. But I dont think mobile payments systems are trade secrets on the same scale as the "Coke recipe". Indeed Airtel, then KENCELL was the first one to do money transfer over the GSM networks in Kenya. So the technology is already "known" /"open" from a technical point view. It is not a trade secret. What we have now is simply "Gatekeeping" exercises - perhaps at the expense of both Safaricom (reduced revenues) and the bigger Kenyan society in form of delayed accelerated innovations that would otherwise be bubbling at the edge of MPESA. walu. ________________________________ From: James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open Bernard Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean. Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development? Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development. THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system. This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly. There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers. But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it. This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences.
My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime – this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called “MPESA Instant Payment Notification” originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. Isn’t this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko Chief Executive Officer Bernsoft Interactive Limited P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya Office: +254-703-080-000 Mobile: +254-722-540-883 From:kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko=bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open James ad all Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on. Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375
"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad
On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote: Openness
I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily. The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology. In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA. If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge. Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: @areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to
setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom.
The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
I subscribe to this definition of an open system: https://www.google.com/search?q=define:+open+system Businesses, unlike individuals have a plethora of verbs that characterize transaction management; these include reconcile, verify, countercheck, reverse, audit etc. MPesa only provides one way to get anything done from a backend perspective: via a browser, not any browser though, they recommend Internet Explorer specifically on Windows XP. Chrome can get you in, but Firefox will not. That is not behavior expected of an open system. For a banking institution and one with Equity’s perceived volumes, constraining “automatable” business processes to manual browser logins is to deliberately impede business to say the least, especially considering the Safaricom end of the transaction is automated and further considering that each manual login probably boils down to an expense at Equity and new opportunities for errors. It is also worth noting that the MPesa web interface whereas functional, is generally unsuited for voluminous transactional processing being that its designed to be primarily driven by a pointing device. In the light of the above and given the basic accounting principle of double entry how does Equity efficiently reconcile its books against MPesa? What are the associated costs? Isn’t it straight forward that what Equity is rooting for is an operable bidirectional API? And if it is, isn’t the business case equally straight forward? But come to think of it, even the implementation of 0722-000000 – their core business – is not open, biashara ya kando ndio watafungua? Regards From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eugene=synergy.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Walubengo J Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 7:41 PM To: Eugene Lidede Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open @ James G. Mbugua, jst reading this... I do have to google you - we may have been brothers in our previous lives..this statement from you is straight from my mind and I quote:
There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment >platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury
I personally think Safcom can double or triple its MPESA revenues if they crossed that mental shift and "liberally" allowed innovations to happen at the edge rather than at the center, as they simply collect commissions appropriately. I know intellectual or trade secrets have been cited as a way of limiting the APIs or not publishing them. But I dont think mobile payments systems are trade secrets on the same scale as the "Coke recipe". Indeed Airtel, then KENCELL was the first one to do money transfer over the GSM networks in Kenya. So the technology is already "known" /"open" from a technical point view. It is not a trade secret. What we have now is simply "Gatekeeping" exercises - perhaps at the expense of both Safaricom (reduced revenues) and the bigger Kenyan society in form of delayed accelerated innovations that would otherwise be bubbling at the edge of MPESA. walu. _____ From: James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open Bernard Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean. Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development? Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development. THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system. This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly. There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers. But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it. This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime – this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called “MPESA Instant Payment Notification” originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. Isn’t this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko Chief Executive Officer Bernsoft Interactive Limited P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya Office: +254-703-080-000 Mobile: +254-722-540-883 From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bbkioko> =bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open James ad all Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on. Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375 "The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote: Openness I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily. The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology. In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA. If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge. Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: @areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom. The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke <http://kenya.or.ke/> | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke <http://markmwangi.me.ke/> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hoped the National Payment System Act, 2011 was injected onto this discussion <http://www.kenyalawreports.or.ke/klr/fileadmin/pdfdownloads/Acts/NationalPaymentSystemsAct__No39of2011.pdf> ________________________________ From: Eugene Lidede (Synergy) <eugene@synergy.co.ke> To: ict.researcher@yahoo.com Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open I subscribe to this definition of an open system: https://www.google.com/search?q=define:+open+system Businesses, unlike individuals have a plethora of verbs that characterize transaction management; these include reconcile, verify, countercheck, reverse, audit etc. MPesa only provides one way to get anything done from a backend perspective: via a browser, not any browser though, they recommend Internet Explorer specifically on Windows XP. Chrome can get you in, but Firefox will not. That is not behavior expected of an open system. For a banking institution and one with Equity’s perceived volumes, constraining “automatable” business processes to manual browser logins is to deliberately impede business to say the least, especially considering the Safaricom end of the transaction is automated and further considering that each manual login probably boils down to an expense at Equity and new opportunities for errors. It is also worth noting that the MPesa web interface whereas functional, is generally unsuited for voluminous transactional processing being that its designed to be primarily driven by a pointing device. In the light of the above and given the basic accounting principle of double entry how does Equity efficiently reconcile its books against MPesa? What are the associated costs? Isn’t it straight forward that what Equity is rooting for is an operable bidirectional API? And if it is, isn’t the business case equally straight forward? But come to think of it, even the implementation of 0722-000000 – their core business – is not open, biashara ya kando ndio watafungua? Regards From:kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eugene=synergy.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Walubengo J Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 7:41 PM To: Eugene Lidede Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open @ James G. Mbugua, jst reading this... I do have to google you - we may have been brothers in our previous lives..this statement from you is straight from my mind and I quote:
There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment >platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury I personally think Safcom can double or triple its MPESA revenues if they crossed that mental shift and "liberally" allowed innovations to happen at the edge rather than at the center, as they simply collect commissions appropriately. I know intellectual or trade secrets have been cited as a way of limiting the APIs or not publishing them. But I dont think mobile payments systems are trade secrets on the same scale as the "Coke recipe". Indeed Airtel, then KENCELL was the first one to do money transfer over the GSM networks in Kenya. So the technology is already "known" /"open" from a technical point view. It is not a trade secret. What we have now is simply "Gatekeeping" exercises - perhaps at the expense of both Safaricom (reduced revenues) and the bigger Kenyan society in form of delayed accelerated innovations that would otherwise be bubbling at the edge of MPESA. walu.
________________________________ From:James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open Bernard Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean. Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then give greenlight further development? Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for third party software development. THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they like and therefore should run on a payment system. This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a virtual monopoly. There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for their services without having to go through an approval process where SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it comes to dealing with developers. But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy. What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates? Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy about it. This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense for any right-thinking citizen. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote: I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will continue to open it up but that depends on the value the opening up presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on experiences. My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA transactions realtime – this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before. We developed this system called “MPESA Instant Payment Notification” originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now processed through this locally developed system. Isn’t this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to their advantage. Kind Regards, Bernard Kioko Chief Executive Officer Bernsoft Interactive Limited P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya Office: +254-703-080-000 Mobile: +254-722-540-883 From:kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko=bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM To: bkioko@bernsoft.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject:Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open James ad all Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for open standards. Rarely do companies. Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on. Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not a moment sooner. That's my take. Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375 "The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote: Openness
I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this. Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa Point or another non-Barclays quite easily. The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology. In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our GDP passes through M-PESA. If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market forces and government national security interests converge. Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is there. Regards James On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not a safaricom product. I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players, maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: @areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to
setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer funds without them passing through Safaricom.
The MPESA platform becomes an enabler. Unless anybody else has a better understanding.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ict.researcher%40yahoo... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (11)
-
Ali Hussein -
Baiju Shah -
Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive Limited] -
Eugene Lidede (Synergy) -
Harry Delano -
ICT Researcher -
James Mbugua -
Kivuva -
Mark Mwangi -
robert yawe -
Walubengo J