Phares, I have argued before, this is very intentional! GoK spends Ksh 15B every year on Software, mostly enterprise, yet asks its young citizens to concentrate on developing mobile applications, which even itself doesn't buy, while leaving the gravy train for foreign companies to come and squeeze the juice out of the Ksh 15B enterprise market. So, here we go with yet another pointless mobile application competition! Regards Waithaka Ngigi On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:

A fairly narrow view of the technology sector. It's not all mobile.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 04:56, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> wrote:

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/story.php?articleID=2000107530&story_title=Got-talent-Matiangi-is-looking-for-you

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- *Regards,* *Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke

Phares, Ngigi, Conrad Your focus and preference for server side and enterprise desktop mode solutions is very much appreciated. However the thousands of local software developers getting into the system will not fit into just that pie of the value chain you are in for now. More so, 30m+ mobile subscribers is no small market place for software entrepreneurs. And nowadays the computer does not have to be on your desk or lap, in fact most computers among Kenyans are mobile phones. It is not bad for policy to at least direct the youth towards the opportunity in mobile. You'll recall that its a global market place and some of the kids we deride for writing the so called "mVitus" are earning thee figure dollar checks monthly from downloads and ads in india, brazil etc. They just wont shout that aloud. More importantly though M-Pesa is seven years old. Many mobile solutions targeting local/regional problems will not mature as soon as we impatiently expect. We're only 3-4 years into the "mobile craze" and most serious attempts are not over 3 years old. There's no short cuts to developing competitive advantages - even in mobile, give it time. If you are not convinced yet, try the ringtone market and premium SMS services. Its a whole big economy out there, with big money changing hands, and its all mobile! That said, what would you rather the CS did about local enterprise desktop based solutions and server side services? Have a nice weekend. On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm mystified as well at this obsession with mobile apps.

Not that we should not to them, but there is so much opportunity in other sectors - infrastructure, cloud computing, enterprise applications, content management that Kenya can not only benefit from, but we can be competitive globally.

Looks like mobile apps will be this regime's Pashas & BPOs

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:

...

A fairly narrow view of the technology sector. It's not all mobile.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 04:56, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> wrote:

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/story.php?articleID=2000107530&story_title=Got-talent-Matiangi-is-looking-for-you

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- My Blog - www.gmeltdown.com ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' The ordinary just won't do

John, You forget that mobile focuses on delivery. No real computing happens on mobile. Facebook runs massive data centers to compliment it's mobile offering. So does Google, to complement android. M-Pesa had to get capacity in rack space. Mobile is but a delivery tool. The argument that we should focus on mobile is akin to saying that we should scrap universities (knowledge 'producers') and focus on printing presses, because people read books. Most mobile applications are hollow at best without infrastructure. Think about it all the leaders in mobile Instagram, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Safaricom have massive compute capacity (Instagram leases from amazon). We on the other hand only want to focus on delivery. Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity On 22 Mar 2014, at 13:22, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Kieti, How comes none of these thousands of software developers are supplying even a single solution to government. How comes government services are barely available to the millions of Kenyans via mobile? See our drift, government should be removing barriers and improving service delivery for all. Also, what was the role of governments in the likes of Angry Birds, King (Candy Crush Saga) and Facebook, beyond providing an enabling environment - which we don't do here. On Saturday, 22 March 2014, John Kieti <jkieti@gmail.com> wrote:

Phares, Ngigi, Conrad

Your focus and preference for server side and enterprise desktop mode solutions is very much appreciated.

However the thousands of local software developers getting into the system will not fit into just that pie of the value chain you are in for now. More so, 30m+ mobile subscribers is no small market place for software entrepreneurs. And nowadays the computer does not have to be on your desk or lap, in fact most computers among Kenyans are mobile phones. It is not bad for policy to at least direct the youth towards the opportunity in mobile.

You'll recall that its a global market place and some of the kids we deride for writing the so called "mVitus" are earning thee figure dollar checks monthly from downloads and ads in india, brazil etc. They just wont shout that aloud. More importantly though M-Pesa is seven years old. Many mobile solutions targeting local/regional problems will not mature as soon as we impatiently expect. We're only 3-4 years into the "mobile craze" and most serious attempts are not over 3 years old. There's no short cuts to developing competitive advantages - even in mobile, give it time. If you are not convinced yet, try the ringtone market and premium SMS services. Its a whole big economy out there, with big money changing hands, and its all mobile!

That said, what would you rather the CS did about local enterprise desktop based solutions and server side services?

Have a nice weekend.

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','conradakunga@gmail.com');>

...

wrote:

...

I'm mystified as well at this obsession with mobile apps.

Not that we should not to them, but there is so much opportunity in other sectors - infrastructure, cloud computing, enterprise applications, content management that Kenya can not only benefit from, but we can be competitive globally.

Looks like mobile apps will be this regime's Pashas & BPOs

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pkariuki@gmail.com');>

...

wrote:

...

A fairly narrow view of the technology sector. It's not all mobile.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 04:56, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ggithaiga@hotmail.com');>> wrote:

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/story.php?articleID=2000107530&story_title=Got-talent-Matiangi-is-looking-for-you

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- My Blog - www.gmeltdown.com ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' The ordinary just won't do

-- with Regards: blog.denniskioko.com <http://www.denniskioko.com/> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

Kieti, The reason I pick on Government is simply because if you look at the last couple of years, the one entity that is throwing good money into developing really suspect 'mobile' applications that hardly ever become sustainable is GoK. And since GoK cannot force commercial companies to buy certain applications that it has helped develop, bar using Taxes etc, it would then almost make sense for GoK to be the first to try to use these applications itself, seeing that it is already spending Ksh 15B in buying software itself. Microsoft calls this eating your own dog food! Please, let us not confuse enterprise applications with ERPs, they're really different. If you look at my earlier list, I pushed for our engineers to focus on cracking cloud computing, security, network management and building applications that we currently have a need for. And, as has been said here, mobile is just a delivery platform, and no one in his right mind would want to kill the largest delivery platform accessible to Wanjku. But when you keep throwing good money after really bad applications that are finding almost no use in the market, and then go ahead and ask more engineers to commit themselves to building more of the same old 'mobile' applications, then would you be surprised that the so called dream of having a 100 ICT, Ksh 1B Turnover companies in Kenya are not looking but like a mirage right now? Regards Waithaka Ngigi On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 1:51 PM, John Kieti <jkieti@gmail.com> wrote:

Phares, Solutions delivery comes closest to revenue being made and impact achieved. End users rarely care about computational and other server side abilities. Processing and storage abilities on the server side are indeed are essential as software based solutions deliver to scale, but there must be a customer interacting using some end user device; and in Kenya the customer mostly has a feature phone kind of device.

Dennis, Ngigi, The argument about Angry birds on one end and even Google on the other end not growing from direct government support should apply to the case of ERPs and other enterprise grade applications. Entreprise growth soley based on doing business with government is easily the infamous tender-preneurship, and thats another story. Granted, Government may be the single biggest IT spender in the country, it does not provide majority of IT business (I stand corrected).

My point: Perhaps which the policy custodians are seeing, is that we do not have to "kill" efforts around mobile so that desktop / server side services can thrive. If any thing many enterprise solutions are already being delivered through mobile, and thats going to grow as the mobile ecosystem continues to sniff the easier money in enterprise. Its a whole complementary ecosystem. As to whether the industry should rely on government tender to thrive, entrepreneurs should seek success elsewhere where there's low hanging fruits.

best regards

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:

...

John,

You forget that mobile focuses on delivery. No real computing happens on mobile. Facebook runs massive data centers to compliment it's mobile offering. So does Google, to complement android. M-Pesa had to get capacity in rack space. Mobile is but a delivery tool. The argument that we should focus on mobile is akin to saying that we should scrap universities (knowledge 'producers') and focus on printing presses, because people read books.

Most mobile applications are hollow at best without infrastructure.

Think about it all the leaders in mobile Instagram, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Safaricom have massive compute capacity (Instagram leases from amazon). We on the other hand only want to focus on delivery.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 13:22, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Kieti, How comes none of these thousands of software developers are supplying even a single solution to government. How comes government services are barely available to the millions of Kenyans via mobile?

See our drift, government should be removing barriers and improving service delivery for all.

Also, what was the role of governments in the likes of Angry Birds, King (Candy Crush Saga) and Facebook, beyond providing an enabling environment - which we don't do here.

On Saturday, 22 March 2014, John Kieti <jkieti@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Phares, Ngigi, Conrad

Your focus and preference for server side and enterprise desktop mode solutions is very much appreciated.

However the thousands of local software developers getting into the system will not fit into just that pie of the value chain you are in for now. More so, 30m+ mobile subscribers is no small market place for software entrepreneurs. And nowadays the computer does not have to be on your desk or lap, in fact most computers among Kenyans are mobile phones. It is not bad for policy to at least direct the youth towards the opportunity in mobile.

You'll recall that its a global market place and some of the kids we deride for writing the so called "mVitus" are earning thee figure dollar checks monthly from downloads and ads in india, brazil etc. They just wont shout that aloud. More importantly though M-Pesa is seven years old. Many mobile solutions targeting local/regional problems will not mature as soon as we impatiently expect. We're only 3-4 years into the "mobile craze" and most serious attempts are not over 3 years old. There's no short cuts to developing competitive advantages - even in mobile, give it time. If you are not convinced yet, try the ringtone market and premium SMS services. Its a whole big economy out there, with big money changing hands, and its all mobile!

That said, what would you rather the CS did about local enterprise desktop based solutions and server side services?

Have a nice weekend.

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I'm mystified as well at this obsession with mobile apps.

Not that we should not to them, but there is so much opportunity in other sectors - infrastructure, cloud computing, enterprise applications, content management that Kenya can not only benefit from, but we can be competitive globally.

Looks like mobile apps will be this regime's Pashas & BPOs

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:

...

A fairly narrow view of the technology sector. It's not all mobile.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 04:56, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> wrote:

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/story.php?articleID=2000107530&story_title=Got-talent-Matiangi-is-looking-for-you

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- My Blog - www.gmeltdown.com ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' The ordinary just won't do

-- with Regards:

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- My Blog - www.gmeltdown.com ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' The ordinary just won't do

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- *Regards,* *Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke

Ngigi I agree with you. On 22 Mar 2014 14:21, "Ngigi Waithaka" <ngigi@at.co.ke> wrote:

There are few global pure-play mobile firms that are profitable and/or cash flow positive. Its really really hard to get the Internet to pay for something and without resorting to the old-age game of advertising and in which case you will need numbers north of 100M Users to be taken seriously.

In order to get to those level of users, you would need to invest in a few billion shillings to get things moving in terms of advertising as well as the hosting these applications.

So, while we hear of Twitter, WhatsApp and other successful mobile firms, it would be wise to know that without a solid funding background to these non-profit making companies, they wouldn't be there.

Now, where does that money to invest in these firms come from? It comes from those American firms such as IBM, HP, Intel, CISCO, Google, Symantec, Amazon; solid companies that are making products that users actually get their hard earned cash to pay for.

So, if you would ask me, we would need first to create our own industry first, with applications that the market is actually paying for (e.g The Ksh 15B GoK Enterprise Service Market) before we get to investing in applications that are built first then someone figures out how to make cash later.

The problem as I have seen in the local market is the tendency to just build applications for the sake of it and that ultimately no one will pay anything for.

And finally, enterprise applications (what you maybe be call server side) are those applications that actually help someone in their work. Their delivery modes are vast (desktops, tablets, phones etc) They are basically applications that a user would pay for.

So while MPesa rans on mobile phones its actually an enterprise application if you just think what goes on behind the scenes and as you look for the revenue model.

So before we get to start yet another competition to review the best dating app, let look at the fact that there are companies in this country that are already paying billions for certain applications, and if there are good local options, they wouldn't mind buying local.

My point is, lets invest first-and-foremost in applications that have a ready market, that the market is already paying for, before we start applications that even the market hasn't figured out yet how to make them commercially viable.

Regards Waithaka Ngigi

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:

...

John,

You forget that mobile focuses on delivery. No real computing happens on mobile. Facebook runs massive data centers to compliment it's mobile offering. So does Google, to complement android. M-Pesa had to get capacity in rack space. Mobile is but a delivery tool. The argument that we should focus on mobile is akin to saying that we should scrap universities (knowledge 'producers') and focus on printing presses, because people read books.

Most mobile applications are hollow at best without infrastructure.

Think about it all the leaders in mobile Instagram, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Safaricom have massive compute capacity (Instagram leases from amazon). We on the other hand only want to focus on delivery.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 13:22, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Kieti, How comes none of these thousands of software developers are supplying even a single solution to government. How comes government services are barely available to the millions of Kenyans via mobile?

See our drift, government should be removing barriers and improving service delivery for all.

Also, what was the role of governments in the likes of Angry Birds, King (Candy Crush Saga) and Facebook, beyond providing an enabling environment - which we don't do here.

On Saturday, 22 March 2014, John Kieti <jkieti@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Phares, Ngigi, Conrad

Your focus and preference for server side and enterprise desktop mode solutions is very much appreciated.

However the thousands of local software developers getting into the system will not fit into just that pie of the value chain you are in for now. More so, 30m+ mobile subscribers is no small market place for software entrepreneurs. And nowadays the computer does not have to be on your desk or lap, in fact most computers among Kenyans are mobile phones. It is not bad for policy to at least direct the youth towards the opportunity in mobile.

You'll recall that its a global market place and some of the kids we deride for writing the so called "mVitus" are earning thee figure dollar checks monthly from downloads and ads in india, brazil etc. They just wont shout that aloud. More importantly though M-Pesa is seven years old. Many mobile solutions targeting local/regional problems will not mature as soon as we impatiently expect. We're only 3-4 years into the "mobile craze" and most serious attempts are not over 3 years old. There's no short cuts to developing competitive advantages - even in mobile, give it time. If you are not convinced yet, try the ringtone market and premium SMS services. Its a whole big economy out there, with big money changing hands, and its all mobile!

That said, what would you rather the CS did about local enterprise desktop based solutions and server side services?

Have a nice weekend.

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I'm mystified as well at this obsession with mobile apps.

Not that we should not to them, but there is so much opportunity in other sectors - infrastructure, cloud computing, enterprise applications, content management that Kenya can not only benefit from, but we can be competitive globally.

Looks like mobile apps will be this regime's Pashas & BPOs

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:

...

A fairly narrow view of the technology sector. It's not all mobile.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 04:56, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> wrote:

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/story.php?articleID=2000107530&story_title=Got-talent-Matiangi-is-looking-for-you

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- My Blog - www.gmeltdown.com ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' The ordinary just won't do

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

What Phares and Ngigi say is true, but if you look at some applications that do not necessarily rely on govt for revenue like Spinlet in Nigeria and Ukall here locally, you will notice the fronting is mobile but they really are desktop and web apps who's delivery is mobile. For example, would you say Waabeh is a mobile app? It's a mass consumption app that spans both platforms and processing is on the cloud, if such an app were to succeed and it already looks like its headed that direction, couldn't that then count as one of the successes of mobile apps? What developing mobile apps seeks to do in this market is ensuring that the platform that most users feel at home on have content that is local that would then make Kenyan consumers start believing in local products. So if you are using a mobile app to stream local music which you paid for via local payments, manage your chama via a mobile app or on a tablet than it will make sense for the corporates to also think mobile first when delivering services. Think microinsurance data collection, govt is the biggest client but let's not forget we have a growing enterprise that seeks to be seen to be successful and cool. Regards, Martin Gicheru On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 3:02 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:

John

What you are talking about (govt supporting mobile apps) only works in labs and incubator

Real world ... Please re-look at Ngigi and Phares arguments

Thanks

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Bernard Kioko <bkioko@bernsoft.com>wrote:

...

Ngigi I agree with you. On 22 Mar 2014 14:21, "Ngigi Waithaka" <ngigi@at.co.ke> wrote:

...

There are few global pure-play mobile firms that are profitable and/or cash flow positive. Its really really hard to get the Internet to pay for something and without resorting to the old-age game of advertising and in which case you will need numbers north of 100M Users to be taken seriously.

In order to get to those level of users, you would need to invest in a few billion shillings to get things moving in terms of advertising as well as the hosting these applications.

So, while we hear of Twitter, WhatsApp and other successful mobile firms, it would be wise to know that without a solid funding background to these non-profit making companies, they wouldn't be there.

Now, where does that money to invest in these firms come from? It comes from those American firms such as IBM, HP, Intel, CISCO, Google, Symantec, Amazon; solid companies that are making products that users actually get their hard earned cash to pay for.

So, if you would ask me, we would need first to create our own industry first, with applications that the market is actually paying for (e.g The Ksh 15B GoK Enterprise Service Market) before we get to investing in applications that are built first then someone figures out how to make cash later.

The problem as I have seen in the local market is the tendency to just build applications for the sake of it and that ultimately no one will pay anything for.

And finally, enterprise applications (what you maybe be call server side) are those applications that actually help someone in their work. Their delivery modes are vast (desktops, tablets, phones etc) They are basically applications that a user would pay for.

So while MPesa rans on mobile phones its actually an enterprise application if you just think what goes on behind the scenes and as you look for the revenue model.

So before we get to start yet another competition to review the best dating app, let look at the fact that there are companies in this country that are already paying billions for certain applications, and if there are good local options, they wouldn't mind buying local.

My point is, lets invest first-and-foremost in applications that have a ready market, that the market is already paying for, before we start applications that even the market hasn't figured out yet how to make them commercially viable.

Regards Waithaka Ngigi

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:

...

John,

You forget that mobile focuses on delivery. No real computing happens on mobile. Facebook runs massive data centers to compliment it's mobile offering. So does Google, to complement android. M-Pesa had to get capacity in rack space. Mobile is but a delivery tool. The argument that we should focus on mobile is akin to saying that we should scrap universities (knowledge 'producers') and focus on printing presses, because people read books.

Most mobile applications are hollow at best without infrastructure.

Think about it all the leaders in mobile Instagram, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Safaricom have massive compute capacity (Instagram leases from amazon). We on the other hand only want to focus on delivery.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 13:22, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Kieti, How comes none of these thousands of software developers are supplying even a single solution to government. How comes government services are barely available to the millions of Kenyans via mobile?

See our drift, government should be removing barriers and improving service delivery for all.

Also, what was the role of governments in the likes of Angry Birds, King (Candy Crush Saga) and Facebook, beyond providing an enabling environment - which we don't do here.

On Saturday, 22 March 2014, John Kieti <jkieti@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Phares, Ngigi, Conrad

Your focus and preference for server side and enterprise desktop mode solutions is very much appreciated.

However the thousands of local software developers getting into the system will not fit into just that pie of the value chain you are in for now. More so, 30m+ mobile subscribers is no small market place for software entrepreneurs. And nowadays the computer does not have to be on your desk or lap, in fact most computers among Kenyans are mobile phones. It is not bad for policy to at least direct the youth towards the opportunity in mobile.

You'll recall that its a global market place and some of the kids we deride for writing the so called "mVitus" are earning thee figure dollar checks monthly from downloads and ads in india, brazil etc. They just wont shout that aloud. More importantly though M-Pesa is seven years old. Many mobile solutions targeting local/regional problems will not mature as soon as we impatiently expect. We're only 3-4 years into the "mobile craze" and most serious attempts are not over 3 years old. There's no short cuts to developing competitive advantages - even in mobile, give it time. If you are not convinced yet, try the ringtone market and premium SMS services. Its a whole big economy out there, with big money changing hands, and its all mobile!

That said, what would you rather the CS did about local enterprise desktop based solutions and server side services?

Have a nice weekend.

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I'm mystified as well at this obsession with mobile apps.

Not that we should not to them, but there is so much opportunity in other sectors - infrastructure, cloud computing, enterprise applications, content management that Kenya can not only benefit from, but we can be competitive globally.

Looks like mobile apps will be this regime's Pashas & BPOs

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:

> A fairly narrow view of the technology sector. It's not all mobile. > > Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity > > On 22 Mar 2014, at 04:56, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/story.php?articleID=2000107530&story_title=Got-talent-Matiangi-is-looking-for-you > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com > > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder > platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy > and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT > sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. > > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable > behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and > bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect > privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/conradakunga%40gmail.c... > > > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder > platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy > and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT > sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. > > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable > behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and > bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect > privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- My Blog - www.gmeltdown.com ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' The ordinary just won't do

-- with Regards:

blog.denniskioko.com <http://www.denniskioko.com/>

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- *Regards,*

*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

Martin are these apps your quoting capable of actually sustaining a livelihood? Eg a spinlet initiative in kenya...are consumers going to buy music to a point ppl can make profits to pay rent..buy food...pay school fees etc On 22 Mar 2014 15:32, "Martin Gicheru" <martingicheru@gmail.com> wrote:

What Phares and Ngigi say is true, but if you look at some applications that do not necessarily rely on govt for revenue like Spinlet in Nigeria and Ukall here locally, you will notice the fronting is mobile but they really are desktop and web apps who's delivery is mobile.

For example, would you say Waabeh is a mobile app? It's a mass consumption app that spans both platforms and processing is on the cloud, if such an app were to succeed and it already looks like its headed that direction, couldn't that then count as one of the successes of mobile apps?

What developing mobile apps seeks to do in this market is ensuring that the platform that most users feel at home on have content that is local that would then make Kenyan consumers start believing in local products.

So if you are using a mobile app to stream local music which you paid for via local payments, manage your chama via a mobile app or on a tablet than it will make sense for the corporates to also think mobile first when delivering services. Think microinsurance data collection, govt is the biggest client but let's not forget we have a growing enterprise that seeks to be seen to be successful and cool.

Regards, Martin Gicheru

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 3:02 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:

...

John

What you are talking about (govt supporting mobile apps) only works in labs and incubator

Real world ... Please re-look at Ngigi and Phares arguments

Thanks

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Bernard Kioko <bkioko@bernsoft.com>wrote:

...

Ngigi I agree with you. On 22 Mar 2014 14:21, "Ngigi Waithaka" <ngigi@at.co.ke> wrote:

...

There are few global pure-play mobile firms that are profitable and/or cash flow positive. Its really really hard to get the Internet to pay for something and without resorting to the old-age game of advertising and in which case you will need numbers north of 100M Users to be taken seriously.

In order to get to those level of users, you would need to invest in a few billion shillings to get things moving in terms of advertising as well as the hosting these applications.

So, while we hear of Twitter, WhatsApp and other successful mobile firms, it would be wise to know that without a solid funding background to these non-profit making companies, they wouldn't be there.

Now, where does that money to invest in these firms come from? It comes from those American firms such as IBM, HP, Intel, CISCO, Google, Symantec, Amazon; solid companies that are making products that users actually get their hard earned cash to pay for.

So, if you would ask me, we would need first to create our own industry first, with applications that the market is actually paying for (e.g The Ksh 15B GoK Enterprise Service Market) before we get to investing in applications that are built first then someone figures out how to make cash later.

The problem as I have seen in the local market is the tendency to just build applications for the sake of it and that ultimately no one will pay anything for.

And finally, enterprise applications (what you maybe be call server side) are those applications that actually help someone in their work. Their delivery modes are vast (desktops, tablets, phones etc) They are basically applications that a user would pay for.

So while MPesa rans on mobile phones its actually an enterprise application if you just think what goes on behind the scenes and as you look for the revenue model.

So before we get to start yet another competition to review the best dating app, let look at the fact that there are companies in this country that are already paying billions for certain applications, and if there are good local options, they wouldn't mind buying local.

My point is, lets invest first-and-foremost in applications that have a ready market, that the market is already paying for, before we start applications that even the market hasn't figured out yet how to make them commercially viable.

Regards Waithaka Ngigi

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:

...

John,

You forget that mobile focuses on delivery. No real computing happens on mobile. Facebook runs massive data centers to compliment it's mobile offering. So does Google, to complement android. M-Pesa had to get capacity in rack space. Mobile is but a delivery tool. The argument that we should focus on mobile is akin to saying that we should scrap universities (knowledge 'producers') and focus on printing presses, because people read books.

Most mobile applications are hollow at best without infrastructure.

Think about it all the leaders in mobile Instagram, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Safaricom have massive compute capacity (Instagram leases from amazon). We on the other hand only want to focus on delivery.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 13:22, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Kieti, How comes none of these thousands of software developers are supplying even a single solution to government. How comes government services are barely available to the millions of Kenyans via mobile?

See our drift, government should be removing barriers and improving service delivery for all.

Also, what was the role of governments in the likes of Angry Birds, King (Candy Crush Saga) and Facebook, beyond providing an enabling environment - which we don't do here.

On Saturday, 22 March 2014, John Kieti <jkieti@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Phares, Ngigi, Conrad

Your focus and preference for server side and enterprise desktop mode solutions is very much appreciated.

However the thousands of local software developers getting into the system will not fit into just that pie of the value chain you are in for now. More so, 30m+ mobile subscribers is no small market place for software entrepreneurs. And nowadays the computer does not have to be on your desk or lap, in fact most computers among Kenyans are mobile phones. It is not bad for policy to at least direct the youth towards the opportunity in mobile.

You'll recall that its a global market place and some of the kids we deride for writing the so called "mVitus" are earning thee figure dollar checks monthly from downloads and ads in india, brazil etc. They just wont shout that aloud. More importantly though M-Pesa is seven years old. Many mobile solutions targeting local/regional problems will not mature as soon as we impatiently expect. We're only 3-4 years into the "mobile craze" and most serious attempts are not over 3 years old. There's no short cuts to developing competitive advantages - even in mobile, give it time. If you are not convinced yet, try the ringtone market and premium SMS services. Its a whole big economy out there, with big money changing hands, and its all mobile!

That said, what would you rather the CS did about local enterprise desktop based solutions and server side services?

Have a nice weekend.

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com>wrote:

> I'm mystified as well at this obsession with mobile apps. > > Not that we should not to them, but there is so much opportunity in > other sectors - infrastructure, cloud computing, enterprise applications, > content management that Kenya can not only benefit from, but we can be > competitive globally. > > Looks like mobile apps will be this regime's Pashas & BPOs > > > On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com > > wrote: > >> A fairly narrow view of the technology sector. It's not all mobile. >> >> Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity >> >> On 22 Mar 2014, at 04:56, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/story.php?articleID=2000107530&story_title=Got-talent-Matiangi-is-looking-for-you >> >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at >> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com >> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder >> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy >> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable >> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and >> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect >> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at >> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/conradakunga%40gmail.c... >> >> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder >> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy >> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable >> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and >> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect >> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jkieti%40gmail.com > > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder > platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy > and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT > sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. > > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable > behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and > bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect > privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >

-- My Blog - www.gmeltdown.com ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' The ordinary just won't do

-- with Regards:

blog.denniskioko.com <http://www.denniskioko.com/>

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Martin, The interesting bit is, and as you can see, we are struggling to name a few successful 'mobile' companies that are maybe paying their bills. Maybe one company here having downloable music, another there selling coupons in town, another there showing farmers how much cabbages are going for in town. Yes nice noble applications. And then there is this Kenyan guy in Barcelona who 'claims', maybe he does, makes a few million shillings per month, but what I would like to ask is this. Have you heard of firms like: Craft Silicon, PesaPal, Alliance Technologies, Seven Seas, TurnKey Africa, MyStocks, TBM, Compulynx, AccessKenya, Wananchi Group, EIM, Coretec, Octagon Data Systems, KAPS etc? These are technology firms, founded here in Kenya by Kenyans and today , year-in-year out, have combined revenues exceeding Ksh 5B, and employing thousands of techies. I think if we as a country wanted to invest into the technology industry, it would be good to pick from the lessons learnt by these firms in order to push them to higher heights as well as pull in more newer and younger companies that would fill in the slots. But, somehow, somewhere, someone, without much thought, wanted this country to be the next silicon valley. His Answer; let us develop mobile apps and BPOs. Industries in which there was not even a precedent and success stories to talk about locally. And thus, every investment coin the country has had to invest in technology, is being spent in an incubation lab somewhere, trying to make the next iCow, instead of maybe having a serious conversation with say Richard Bell of Wananchi and asking him what do we need to do to make Zuku a bigger brand than DSTV in Africa in 10 years, as an example. So, what has our investment got us? Developers who are so spoilt with money and easy options each making a single little feature, calls it the next big thing in mobile, wins a mobile-competition somewhere, and that's the last your hear of them, until their next 'big' idea or until there is a call for the next competition with anyone with 'Talent'. If there is something in common with the firms that I have mentioned above, is that we *all* learnt how to be cash-flow positive from the word go. We started by making applications the market was ready to buy, and then we moved on from there. I do remember when AccessKenya used to operate from a single room in Wabera Street, in early 2000s. But one thing I can tell you, that first leased line they had, someone paid for it, and then they became 2, 3... and the rest is history they say... Guys, that is how you build industries, a step at a time. Regards Waithaka Ngigi On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Martin Gicheru <martingicheru@gmail.com>wrote:

Liko of course there is a huge difference in terms of the opportunities, I concur. But remember in business there is the enterprise economy and there is SME economy, the latter is what's actually the bigger contributor to the economy, talk about jua kali and the likes. Now coming to ICT, we come from a position where local businesses are buying accounting applications from South Africa, this has more to do with the service providers that are the likes of you Liko and Bernard than the government.

Spinlet is indeed quite huge in that market, and as we see the same west africa companies though funded by European companies venturing into our ecommerce industry.

Bernard I can quote several companies that are doing something in terms of sustaining the lives of at least 5 people. Take the case of waabeh.com, they are actually quoting figures, they actually get paid downloads from as far as Japan for Kenyan music. Ukall does have employees on payroll and though I wouldn't know whether this can go out yet, they have good prospects already. They are making good money.

I met with a Kenyan developer in Barcelona recently who said he makes 2 million a month from mobile apps. The downloads that actually make the revenue ticker go are of course not Kenyan, but external, but he is making money in the global scene. That's what we would take as an example of exporting as opposed to the importing we are used to.

So yes, Angry birds and Flappy birds can happen in Kenya.

What happens is that you can't expect that huge level of success but there are indeed businesses popping up.

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Bernard Kioko <bkioko@bernsoft.com>wrote:

...

Martin are these apps your quoting capable of actually sustaining a livelihood? Eg a spinlet initiative in kenya...are consumers going to buy music to a point ppl can make profits to pay rent..buy food...pay school fees etc On 22 Mar 2014 15:32, "Martin Gicheru" <martingicheru@gmail.com> wrote:

...

What Phares and Ngigi say is true, but if you look at some applications that do not necessarily rely on govt for revenue like Spinlet in Nigeria and Ukall here locally, you will notice the fronting is mobile but they really are desktop and web apps who's delivery is mobile.

For example, would you say Waabeh is a mobile app? It's a mass consumption app that spans both platforms and processing is on the cloud, if such an app were to succeed and it already looks like its headed that direction, couldn't that then count as one of the successes of mobile apps?

What developing mobile apps seeks to do in this market is ensuring that the platform that most users feel at home on have content that is local that would then make Kenyan consumers start believing in local products.

So if you are using a mobile app to stream local music which you paid for via local payments, manage your chama via a mobile app or on a tablet than it will make sense for the corporates to also think mobile first when delivering services. Think microinsurance data collection, govt is the biggest client but let's not forget we have a growing enterprise that seeks to be seen to be successful and cool.

Regards, Martin Gicheru

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 3:02 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:

...

John

What you are talking about (govt supporting mobile apps) only works in labs and incubator

Real world ... Please re-look at Ngigi and Phares arguments

Thanks

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Bernard Kioko <bkioko@bernsoft.com>wrote:

...

Ngigi I agree with you. On 22 Mar 2014 14:21, "Ngigi Waithaka" <ngigi@at.co.ke> wrote:

...

There are few global pure-play mobile firms that are profitable and/or cash flow positive. Its really really hard to get the Internet to pay for something and without resorting to the old-age game of advertising and in which case you will need numbers north of 100M Users to be taken seriously.

In order to get to those level of users, you would need to invest in a few billion shillings to get things moving in terms of advertising as well as the hosting these applications.

So, while we hear of Twitter, WhatsApp and other successful mobile firms, it would be wise to know that without a solid funding background to these non-profit making companies, they wouldn't be there.

Now, where does that money to invest in these firms come from? It comes from those American firms such as IBM, HP, Intel, CISCO, Google, Symantec, Amazon; solid companies that are making products that users actually get their hard earned cash to pay for.

So, if you would ask me, we would need first to create our own industry first, with applications that the market is actually paying for (e.g The Ksh 15B GoK Enterprise Service Market) before we get to investing in applications that are built first then someone figures out how to make cash later.

The problem as I have seen in the local market is the tendency to just build applications for the sake of it and that ultimately no one will pay anything for.

And finally, enterprise applications (what you maybe be call server side) are those applications that actually help someone in their work. Their delivery modes are vast (desktops, tablets, phones etc) They are basically applications that a user would pay for.

So while MPesa rans on mobile phones its actually an enterprise application if you just think what goes on behind the scenes and as you look for the revenue model.

So before we get to start yet another competition to review the best dating app, let look at the fact that there are companies in this country that are already paying billions for certain applications, and if there are good local options, they wouldn't mind buying local.

My point is, lets invest first-and-foremost in applications that have a ready market, that the market is already paying for, before we start applications that even the market hasn't figured out yet how to make them commercially viable.

Regards Waithaka Ngigi

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:

> John, > > You forget that mobile focuses on delivery. No real computing > happens on mobile. Facebook runs massive data centers to compliment it's > mobile offering. So does Google, to complement android. M-Pesa had to get > capacity in rack space. Mobile is but a delivery tool. The argument that we > should focus on mobile is akin to saying that we should scrap universities > (knowledge 'producers') and focus on printing presses, because people read > books. > > Most mobile applications are hollow at best without infrastructure. > > Think about it all the leaders in mobile Instagram, Amazon, Apple, > Facebook, Safaricom have massive compute capacity (Instagram leases from > amazon). We on the other hand only want to focus on delivery. > > > Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity > > On 22 Mar 2014, at 13:22, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Kieti, > How comes none of these thousands of software developers are > supplying even a single solution to government. How comes government > services are barely available to the millions of Kenyans via mobile? > > See our drift, government should be removing barriers and improving > service delivery for all. > > Also, what was the role of governments in the likes of Angry Birds, > King (Candy Crush Saga) and Facebook, beyond providing an enabling > environment - which we don't do here. > > On Saturday, 22 March 2014, John Kieti <jkieti@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Phares, Ngigi, Conrad >> >> Your focus and preference for server side and enterprise desktop >> mode solutions is very much appreciated. >> >> However the thousands of local software developers getting into the >> system will not fit into just that pie of the value chain you are in for >> now. More so, 30m+ mobile subscribers is no small market place for software >> entrepreneurs. And nowadays the computer does not have to be on your desk >> or lap, in fact most computers among Kenyans are mobile phones. It is not >> bad for policy to at least direct the youth towards the opportunity in >> mobile. >> >> You'll recall that its a global market place and some of the kids >> we deride for writing the so called "mVitus" are earning thee figure dollar >> checks monthly from downloads and ads in india, brazil etc. They just wont >> shout that aloud. More importantly though M-Pesa is seven years old. Many >> mobile solutions targeting local/regional problems will not mature as soon >> as we impatiently expect. We're only 3-4 years into the "mobile craze" and >> most serious attempts are not over 3 years old. There's no short cuts to >> developing competitive advantages - even in mobile, give it time. If you >> are not convinced yet, try the ringtone market and premium SMS services. >> Its a whole big economy out there, with big money changing hands, and its >> all mobile! >> >> That said, what would you rather the CS did about local enterprise >> desktop based solutions and server side services? >> >> Have a nice weekend. >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> I'm mystified as well at this obsession with mobile apps. >>> >>> Not that we should not to them, but there is so much opportunity >>> in other sectors - infrastructure, cloud computing, enterprise >>> applications, content management that Kenya can not only benefit from, but >>> we can be competitive globally. >>> >>> Looks like mobile apps will be this regime's Pashas & BPOs >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Phares Kariuki < >>> pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> A fairly narrow view of the technology sector. It's not all >>>> mobile. >>>> >>>> Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity >>>> >>>> On 22 Mar 2014, at 04:56, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/story.php?articleID=2000107530&story_title=Got-talent-Matiangi-is-looking-for-you >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> kictanet mailing list >>>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>> >>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder >>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy >>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT >>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >>>> >>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable >>>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and >>>> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect >>>> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> kictanet mailing list >>>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>> >>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/conradakunga%40gmail.c... >>>> >>>> >>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder >>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy >>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT >>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >>>> >>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable >>>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and >>>> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect >>>> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> kictanet mailing list >>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at >>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jkieti%40gmail.com >>> >>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder >>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy >>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT >>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. >>> >>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable >>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and >>> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect >>> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> My Blog - www.gmeltdown.com >> ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' >> The ordinary just won't do >> > > > -- > with Regards: > > blog.denniskioko.com <http://www.denniskioko.com/> > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com > > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder > platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy > and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT > sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. > > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable > behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and > bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect > privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke > > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder > platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy > and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT > sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. > > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable > behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and > bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect > privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. >

-- *Regards,*

*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke

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-- *Regards,* *Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke

Multinationals are not born with skill. Skill is developed. The multinational is in the business of maximising profit ergo, as soon as they can cut the local company out of the value chain, they will. Example. IBM started out in Kenya by partnering with local companies. It's going direct to the customer more and more. Not less. Focusing on the end device means we don't own the rest of the value chain - we can be easily interchanged. In many cases, we have the capacity locally, we just don't believe we do. We continually disparage local companies and the skill sets they have without bothering to find out how experienced they are/how experienced their team is. We love holding companies to standards that we don't hold our own company/government accountable. I'm not saying that we don't need competent companies - far from that. We need competent and capable companies. My argument is that statements like "partner with multinationals" already assume that the local company has no competence which many times is far from the truth. I say this having personally worked to build a team with talent that is unequivocally competent and experienced in its field, but still being disparaged for being local and asked to partner with random MNC's. Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity On 22 Mar 2014, at 20:50, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: John Couldn't agree with you more. The world is mobile. I think what we should be discussing are solutions that are device/screen agnostic. Lets also be honest with ourselves. Government/major corporate software solutions do require a lot more thought process/project management/enterprise strength security etc. What we must discuss is how we can ensure the industry engages government objectively and how government engages industry objectively and honestly. There must be engagement at both the youth and the enterprise level so that the industry has a stake in major IT projects by the government and Parastal sector. I believe there are already inroads in that direction. Undoubtedly more needs to be done. Partnering with some of the multinationals to bid for these mega projects is also critical for us to improve on our skill sets and to add muscle to the tendering process. On the side of the government they must put in place measures to insure a certain percentage of deliverable is local content (this can come in services, personnel etc). My two cents.. *Ali Hussein* +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim<http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad On Mar 22, 2014, at 1:22 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Kieti, How comes none of these thousands of software developers are supplying even a single solution to government. How comes government services are barely available to the millions of Kenyans via mobile? See our drift, government should be removing barriers and improving service delivery for all. Also, what was the role of governments in the likes of Angry Birds, King (Candy Crush Saga) and Facebook, beyond providing an enabling environment - which we don't do here. On Saturday, 22 March 2014, John Kieti <jkieti@gmail.com> wrote:

Phares, Ngigi, Conrad

Your focus and preference for server side and enterprise desktop mode solutions is very much appreciated.

However the thousands of local software developers getting into the system will not fit into just that pie of the value chain you are in for now. More so, 30m+ mobile subscribers is no small market place for software entrepreneurs. And nowadays the computer does not have to be on your desk or lap, in fact most computers among Kenyans are mobile phones. It is not bad for policy to at least direct the youth towards the opportunity in mobile.

You'll recall that its a global market place and some of the kids we deride for writing the so called "mVitus" are earning thee figure dollar checks monthly from downloads and ads in india, brazil etc. They just wont shout that aloud. More importantly though M-Pesa is seven years old. Many mobile solutions targeting local/regional problems will not mature as soon as we impatiently expect. We're only 3-4 years into the "mobile craze" and most serious attempts are not over 3 years old. There's no short cuts to developing competitive advantages - even in mobile, give it time. If you are not convinced yet, try the ringtone market and premium SMS services. Its a whole big economy out there, with big money changing hands, and its all mobile!

That said, what would you rather the CS did about local enterprise desktop based solutions and server side services?

Have a nice weekend.

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','conradakunga@gmail.com');>

...

wrote:

...

I'm mystified as well at this obsession with mobile apps.

Not that we should not to them, but there is so much opportunity in other sectors - infrastructure, cloud computing, enterprise applications, content management that Kenya can not only benefit from, but we can be competitive globally.

Looks like mobile apps will be this regime's Pashas & BPOs

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pkariuki@gmail.com');>

...

wrote:

...

A fairly narrow view of the technology sector. It's not all mobile.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 04:56, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ggithaiga@hotmail.com');>> wrote:

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/story.php?articleID=2000107530&story_title=Got-talent-Matiangi-is-looking-for-you

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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- My Blog - www.gmeltdown.com ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' The ordinary just won't do

-- with Regards: blog.denniskioko.com <http://www.denniskioko.com/> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

Ali, You miss my point - did the companies partner with MNC's? Yes. At various points, in various ways - Samsung Elec partnered with NEC, Lenovo grew from partnerships with IBM, however companies like LG never really did partner with anyone. My problem is partnership with an MNC being used as a silver bullet, assuming that local market knowledge and technical expertise cannot be enough on their own. Various companies succeed using different paths. Some partner, others compete. On IBM, your statement confirms rather than repudiates my assertion. Five odd years ago, it was not that IBM 'would rather', it was that IBM 'would only' go through the local channel. I'll give a simple example in sectors outside of ICT - Keroche, Equity Bank java until it's recent buyout, many local hotel chains, Bidco etc. These are companies that basically grew largely without MNC partnership because they had a combination of local market knowledge, technical expertise and good management. Actually, our financial system is largely dominated by local players who with the exception of NIC & pre independence KCB have largely been locally grown. There's no silver bullet. No company *has to* partner with an MNC to succeed and partnering with one doesn't guarantee success. We need to let these companies write their own stories and need to at least have faith in our ecosystem that we pride ourselves in to deliver a few wins. Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity On 23 Mar 2014, at 06:01, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Phares Far be it for us to be as arrogant as to think that we can't learn anything from partnering with whoever... Toyota didn't become the great company it is today by going the Lone Ranger way..Neither did LG, Samsung, Lenovo et al. In fact if you trace their history you will see (without exception) how they stepped on the should of giants and then surpassed them - from GM to Sony. Allow me also to correct you on IBM. They would rather partner with a local company than deal directly for various reasons...in fact like most Multi-Nationals they have a deliberate strategy of empowering local business partners. Of course their interest is the bottom line but who is to say that interest cannot be symbiotic? This of course must be cemented by a deliberate government strategy of ensuring local content in major infrastructure projects (IT or otherwise). It is one way we can build capacity and ensure a good piece of the pie remains in-country. *Ali Hussein* +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim<http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad On Mar 23, 2014, at 1:24 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote: Multinationals are not born with skill. Skill is developed. The multinational is in the business of maximising profit ergo, as soon as they can cut the local company out of the value chain, they will. Example. IBM started out in Kenya by partnering with local companies. It's going direct to the customer more and more. Not less. Focusing on the end device means we don't own the rest of the value chain - we can be easily interchanged. In many cases, we have the capacity locally, we just don't believe we do. We continually disparage local companies and the skill sets they have without bothering to find out how experienced they are/how experienced their team is. We love holding companies to standards that we don't hold our own company/government accountable. I'm not saying that we don't need competent companies - far from that. We need competent and capable companies. My argument is that statements like "partner with multinationals" already assume that the local company has no competence which many times is far from the truth. I say this having personally worked to build a team with talent that is unequivocally competent and experienced in its field, but still being disparaged for being local and asked to partner with random MNC's. Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity On 22 Mar 2014, at 20:50, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: John Couldn't agree with you more. The world is mobile. I think what we should be discussing are solutions that are device/screen agnostic. Lets also be honest with ourselves. Government/major corporate software solutions do require a lot more thought process/project management/enterprise strength security etc. What we must discuss is how we can ensure the industry engages government objectively and how government engages industry objectively and honestly. There must be engagement at both the youth and the enterprise level so that the industry has a stake in major IT projects by the government and Parastal sector. I believe there are already inroads in that direction. Undoubtedly more needs to be done. Partnering with some of the multinationals to bid for these mega projects is also critical for us to improve on our skill sets and to add muscle to the tendering process. On the side of the government they must put in place measures to insure a certain percentage of deliverable is local content (this can come in services, personnel etc). My two cents.. *Ali Hussein* +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim<http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad On Mar 22, 2014, at 1:22 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Kieti, How comes none of these thousands of software developers are supplying even a single solution to government. How comes government services are barely available to the millions of Kenyans via mobile? See our drift, government should be removing barriers and improving service delivery for all. Also, what was the role of governments in the likes of Angry Birds, King (Candy Crush Saga) and Facebook, beyond providing an enabling environment - which we don't do here. On Saturday, 22 March 2014, John Kieti <jkieti@gmail.com> wrote:

Phares, Ngigi, Conrad

Your focus and preference for server side and enterprise desktop mode solutions is very much appreciated.

However the thousands of local software developers getting into the system will not fit into just that pie of the value chain you are in for now. More so, 30m+ mobile subscribers is no small market place for software entrepreneurs. And nowadays the computer does not have to be on your desk or lap, in fact most computers among Kenyans are mobile phones. It is not bad for policy to at least direct the youth towards the opportunity in mobile.

You'll recall that its a global market place and some of the kids we deride for writing the so called "mVitus" are earning thee figure dollar checks monthly from downloads and ads in india, brazil etc. They just wont shout that aloud. More importantly though M-Pesa is seven years old. Many mobile solutions targeting local/regional problems will not mature as soon as we impatiently expect. We're only 3-4 years into the "mobile craze" and most serious attempts are not over 3 years old. There's no short cuts to developing competitive advantages - even in mobile, give it time. If you are not convinced yet, try the ringtone market and premium SMS services. Its a whole big economy out there, with big money changing hands, and its all mobile!

That said, what would you rather the CS did about local enterprise desktop based solutions and server side services?

Have a nice weekend.

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','conradakunga@gmail.com');>

...

wrote:

...

I'm mystified as well at this obsession with mobile apps.

Not that we should not to them, but there is so much opportunity in other sectors - infrastructure, cloud computing, enterprise applications, content management that Kenya can not only benefit from, but we can be competitive globally.

Looks like mobile apps will be this regime's Pashas & BPOs

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pkariuki@gmail.com');>

...

wrote:

...

A fairly narrow view of the technology sector. It's not all mobile.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 04:56, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ggithaiga@hotmail.com');>> wrote:

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/story.php?articleID=2000107530&story_title=Got-talent-Matiangi-is-looking-for-you

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- My Blog - www.gmeltdown.com ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' The ordinary just won't do

-- with Regards: blog.denniskioko.com <http://www.denniskioko.com/> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

Again, my point is missed entirely. I don't see where arrogance comes in. Is it possible to be a world leader without MNC partnerships? Yes. Is it possible with MNC partnerships? Yes. There's no singular formulae for success. That's what I am against. Is it possible for mobile to make billions? Yes. Is it possible for ERP's to make billions? Yes. This whole argument came up because people are trying to distill the tech ecosystem into singular stories. Some companies can succeed without partnership others need partnership to succeed. We shouldn't be disparaging local companies as local champions - if we can't conquer our own market how do we aim to conquer others? Equity is now a regional player. It's growing. Slowly. So is KCB. One day at a time, one battle at a time. So is KAPS, Cellulant, Seven Seas, Innova, Pesapal etc. I don't see how their success is trivial given that they have slain giants. Equity is in battle with some of the most cash rich companies in the world (Barclays/SCB etc) but understanding their local context helped them beat these giants. They succeeded without a direct partnership from a foreign bank. They are now becoming a multinational bank. They understood the local customer and operating environment. Again, my issue isn't MNC's. It's the singular models for success being pushed. I'm against that. Wholeheartedly. Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity On 23 Mar 2014, at 09:06, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Phares Many ways to skin a cat. What you are describing are local companies that are local champions. What I'm aspiring to is world domination. Surely you see that? Take Seven Seas. You only need to walk into their offices to see the direction and partnerships they have put together. We don't need to be subservient to MNCs. We can learn from them and outdo them. Surely you aren't so arrogant as to think that we can grow to be world leaders on our own? *Ali Hussein* +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim<http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad On Mar 23, 2014, at 6:30 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote: Ali, You miss my point - did the companies partner with MNC's? Yes. At various points, in various ways - Samsung Elec partnered with NEC, Lenovo grew from partnerships with IBM, however companies like LG never really did partner with anyone. My problem is partnership with an MNC being used as a silver bullet, assuming that local market knowledge and technical expertise cannot be enough on their own. Various companies succeed using different paths. Some partner, others compete. On IBM, your statement confirms rather than repudiates my assertion. Five odd years ago, it was not that IBM 'would rather', it was that IBM 'would only' go through the local channel. I'll give a simple example in sectors outside of ICT - Keroche, Equity Bank java until it's recent buyout, many local hotel chains, Bidco etc. These are companies that basically grew largely without MNC partnership because they had a combination of local market knowledge, technical expertise and good management. Actually, our financial system is largely dominated by local players who with the exception of NIC & pre independence KCB have largely been locally grown. There's no silver bullet. No company *has to* partner with an MNC to succeed and partnering with one doesn't guarantee success. We need to let these companies write their own stories and need to at least have faith in our ecosystem that we pride ourselves in to deliver a few wins. Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity On 23 Mar 2014, at 06:01, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Phares Far be it for us to be as arrogant as to think that we can't learn anything from partnering with whoever... Toyota didn't become the great company it is today by going the Lone Ranger way..Neither did LG, Samsung, Lenovo et al. In fact if you trace their history you will see (without exception) how they stepped on the should of giants and then surpassed them - from GM to Sony. Allow me also to correct you on IBM. They would rather partner with a local company than deal directly for various reasons...in fact like most Multi-Nationals they have a deliberate strategy of empowering local business partners. Of course their interest is the bottom line but who is to say that interest cannot be symbiotic? This of course must be cemented by a deliberate government strategy of ensuring local content in major infrastructure projects (IT or otherwise). It is one way we can build capacity and ensure a good piece of the pie remains in-country. *Ali Hussein* +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim<http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad On Mar 23, 2014, at 1:24 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote: Multinationals are not born with skill. Skill is developed. The multinational is in the business of maximising profit ergo, as soon as they can cut the local company out of the value chain, they will. Example. IBM started out in Kenya by partnering with local companies. It's going direct to the customer more and more. Not less. Focusing on the end device means we don't own the rest of the value chain - we can be easily interchanged. In many cases, we have the capacity locally, we just don't believe we do. We continually disparage local companies and the skill sets they have without bothering to find out how experienced they are/how experienced their team is. We love holding companies to standards that we don't hold our own company/government accountable. I'm not saying that we don't need competent companies - far from that. We need competent and capable companies. My argument is that statements like "partner with multinationals" already assume that the local company has no competence which many times is far from the truth. I say this having personally worked to build a team with talent that is unequivocally competent and experienced in its field, but still being disparaged for being local and asked to partner with random MNC's. Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity On 22 Mar 2014, at 20:50, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: John Couldn't agree with you more. The world is mobile. I think what we should be discussing are solutions that are device/screen agnostic. Lets also be honest with ourselves. Government/major corporate software solutions do require a lot more thought process/project management/enterprise strength security etc. What we must discuss is how we can ensure the industry engages government objectively and how government engages industry objectively and honestly. There must be engagement at both the youth and the enterprise level so that the industry has a stake in major IT projects by the government and Parastal sector. I believe there are already inroads in that direction. Undoubtedly more needs to be done. Partnering with some of the multinationals to bid for these mega projects is also critical for us to improve on our skill sets and to add muscle to the tendering process. On the side of the government they must put in place measures to insure a certain percentage of deliverable is local content (this can come in services, personnel etc). My two cents.. *Ali Hussein* +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim<http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad On Mar 22, 2014, at 1:22 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Kieti, How comes none of these thousands of software developers are supplying even a single solution to government. How comes government services are barely available to the millions of Kenyans via mobile? See our drift, government should be removing barriers and improving service delivery for all. Also, what was the role of governments in the likes of Angry Birds, King (Candy Crush Saga) and Facebook, beyond providing an enabling environment - which we don't do here. On Saturday, 22 March 2014, John Kieti <jkieti@gmail.com> wrote:

Phares, Ngigi, Conrad

Your focus and preference for server side and enterprise desktop mode solutions is very much appreciated.

However the thousands of local software developers getting into the system will not fit into just that pie of the value chain you are in for now. More so, 30m+ mobile subscribers is no small market place for software entrepreneurs. And nowadays the computer does not have to be on your desk or lap, in fact most computers among Kenyans are mobile phones. It is not bad for policy to at least direct the youth towards the opportunity in mobile.

You'll recall that its a global market place and some of the kids we deride for writing the so called "mVitus" are earning thee figure dollar checks monthly from downloads and ads in india, brazil etc. They just wont shout that aloud. More importantly though M-Pesa is seven years old. Many mobile solutions targeting local/regional problems will not mature as soon as we impatiently expect. We're only 3-4 years into the "mobile craze" and most serious attempts are not over 3 years old. There's no short cuts to developing competitive advantages - even in mobile, give it time. If you are not convinced yet, try the ringtone market and premium SMS services. Its a whole big economy out there, with big money changing hands, and its all mobile!

That said, what would you rather the CS did about local enterprise desktop based solutions and server side services?

Have a nice weekend.

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','conradakunga@gmail.com');>

...

wrote:

...

I'm mystified as well at this obsession with mobile apps.

Not that we should not to them, but there is so much opportunity in other sectors - infrastructure, cloud computing, enterprise applications, content management that Kenya can not only benefit from, but we can be competitive globally.

Looks like mobile apps will be this regime's Pashas & BPOs

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pkariuki@gmail.com');>

...

wrote:

...

A fairly narrow view of the technology sector. It's not all mobile.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 04:56, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ggithaiga@hotmail.com');>> wrote:

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/story.php?articleID=2000107530&story_title=Got-talent-Matiangi-is-looking-for-you

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke');> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- My Blog - www.gmeltdown.com ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' The ordinary just won't do

-- with Regards: blog.denniskioko.com <http://www.denniskioko.com/> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

I am also suspicious of this incessant focus on mobile as the next big thing and pouring of resources into it like there is no other industry worth supporting. We have a vehicle assembly plant that has been underutilized for years now yet used car imports are welcomed by KRA. What do we actually want? We say we want to be competitive and yet do nothing towards this. For instance I hear the KRA iTax system is built by an Indian firm. I am in no way Xenophobic or anti competition but even the US does not allow foreign owned companies to supply critical software. They have local companies with enough chops to supply stuff. We have Craft Silicon that is relied on by Banks and other financial institutions so we cant argue that the technical skill is none existent. Years later we do not have locally assembled Set top boxes for the Digital migration. Is this a problem with enterpreneurship? Govt policy? Poor university research culture? Or maybe we are still not sure we can rival the west. On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Ngigi Waithaka <ngigi@at.co.ke> wrote:

Phares,

I have asked before in these forums, has anyone heard of these guys?

Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Gordon Moore, Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, Zukerberg, Larry Page?

All these guys started off with a dream of challenging the status quo (eg IBM, DEC et.al), and they won big time.

Why is it then that when we want to challenge the status quo of say, building local and inexpensive products, we are told we need to learn from an MNC?

This actually has some racial undertones as I believe that kids in the US are being told to challenge the status quo, not toe the line.

If you really want to learn, enroll yourself in a college, get into MIT, JKUAT, Harvard etc, when you want to innovate all you need is some good grey matter and passion to invent and/or change things.

Learning from IBM to beat IBM is just plain stupid. You need to be that kid that sees the opportunity that IBM has missed and capitalize on that.

Two kids, Steve & Bill, saw their opportunity, and grabbed it with both hands, today their companies are larger than the Big Blue.

But, what if they listened to the nay sayers who must have told them

"... go work for the Big Blue..." Again, my point is missed entirely. I don't see where arrogance comes in. Is it possible to be a world leader without MNC partnerships? Yes. Is it possible with MNC partnerships? Yes. There's no singular formulae for success. That's what I am against. Is it possible for mobile to make billions? Yes. Is it possible for ERP's to make billions? Yes. This whole argument came up because people are trying to distill the tech ecosystem into singular stories.

Some companies can succeed without partnership others need partnership to succeed. We shouldn't be disparaging local companies as local champions - if we can't conquer our own market how do we aim to conquer others?

Equity is now a regional player. It's growing. Slowly. So is KCB. One day at a time, one battle at a time. So is KAPS, Cellulant, Seven Seas, Innova, Pesapal etc. I don't see how their success is trivial given that they have slain giants. Equity is in battle with some of the most cash rich companies in the world (Barclays/SCB etc) but understanding their local context helped them beat these giants. They succeeded without a direct partnership from a foreign bank. They are now becoming a multinational bank. They understood the local customer and operating environment.

Again, my issue isn't MNC's. It's the singular models for success being pushed. I'm against that. Wholeheartedly.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 23 Mar 2014, at 09:06, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:

Phares

Many ways to skin a cat. What you are describing are local companies that are local champions. What I'm aspiring to is world domination. Surely you see that?

Take Seven Seas. You only need to walk into their offices to see the direction and partnerships they have put together. We don't need to be subservient to MNCs. We can learn from them and outdo them. Surely you aren't so arrogant as to think that we can grow to be world leaders on our own?

*Ali Hussein*

+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim<http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>

Blog: www.alyhussein.com

"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 23, 2014, at 6:30 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:

Ali,

You miss my point - did the companies partner with MNC's? Yes. At various points, in various ways - Samsung Elec partnered with NEC, Lenovo grew from partnerships with IBM, however companies like LG never really did partner with anyone.

My problem is partnership with an MNC being used as a silver bullet, assuming that local market knowledge and technical expertise cannot be enough on their own.

Various companies succeed using different paths. Some partner, others compete.

On IBM, your statement confirms rather than repudiates my assertion. Five odd years ago, it was not that IBM 'would rather', it was that IBM 'would only' go through the local channel.

I'll give a simple example in sectors outside of ICT - Keroche, Equity Bank java until it's recent buyout, many local hotel chains, Bidco etc. These are companies that basically grew largely without MNC partnership because they had a combination of local market knowledge, technical expertise and good management. Actually, our financial system is largely dominated by local players who with the exception of NIC & pre independence KCB have largely been locally grown.

There's no silver bullet. No company *has to* partner with an MNC to succeed and partnering with one doesn't guarantee success. We need to let these companies write their own stories and need to at least have faith in our ecosystem that we pride ourselves in to deliver a few wins.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 23 Mar 2014, at 06:01, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:

Phares

Far be it for us to be as arrogant as to think that we can't learn anything from partnering with whoever...

Toyota didn't become the great company it is today by going the Lone Ranger way..Neither did LG, Samsung, Lenovo et al. In fact if you trace their history you will see (without exception) how they stepped on the should of giants and then surpassed them - from GM to Sony.

Allow me also to correct you on IBM. They would rather partner with a local company than deal directly for various reasons...in fact like most Multi-Nationals they have a deliberate strategy of empowering local business partners. Of course their interest is the bottom line but who is to say that interest cannot be symbiotic?

This of course must be cemented by a deliberate government strategy of ensuring local content in major infrastructure projects (IT or otherwise). It is one way we can build capacity and ensure a good piece of the pie remains in-country.

*Ali Hussein*

+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim<http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>

Blog: www.alyhussein.com

"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 23, 2014, at 1:24 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:

Multinationals are not born with skill. Skill is developed. The multinational is in the business of maximising profit ergo, as soon as they can cut the local company out of the value chain, they will. Example. IBM started out in Kenya by partnering with local companies. It's going direct to the customer more and more. Not less.

Focusing on the end device means we don't own the rest of the value chain - we can be easily interchanged.

In many cases, we have the capacity locally, we just don't believe we do. We continually disparage local companies and the skill sets they have without bothering to find out how experienced they are/how experienced their team is. We love holding companies to standards that we don't hold our own company/government accountable.

I'm not saying that we don't need competent companies - far from that. We need competent and capable companies. My argument is that statements like "partner with multinationals" already assume that the local company has no competence which many times is far from the truth.

I say this having personally worked to build a team with talent that is unequivocally competent and experienced in its field, but still being disparaged for being local and asked to partner with random MNC's.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 20:50, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:

John

Couldn't agree with you more. The world is mobile. I think what we should be discussing are solutions that are device/screen agnostic.

Lets also be honest with ourselves. Government/major corporate software solutions do require a lot more thought process/project management/enterprise strength security etc. What we must discuss is how we can ensure the industry engages government objectively and how government engages industry objectively and honestly.

There must be engagement at both the youth and the enterprise level so that the industry has a stake in major IT projects by the government and Parastal sector. I believe there are already inroads in that direction. Undoubtedly more needs to be done.

Partnering with some of the multinationals to bid for these mega projects is also critical for us to improve on our skill sets and to add muscle to the tendering process. On the side of the government they must put in place measures to insure a certain percentage of deliverable is local content (this can come in services, personnel etc).

My two cents..

*Ali Hussein*

+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim<http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>

Blog: www.alyhussein.com

"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 22, 2014, at 1:22 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Kieti, How comes none of these thousands of software developers are supplying even a single solution to government. How comes government services are barely available to the millions of Kenyans via mobile?

See our drift, government should be removing barriers and improving service delivery for all.

Also, what was the role of governments in the likes of Angry Birds, King (Candy Crush Saga) and Facebook, beyond providing an enabling environment - which we don't do here.

On Saturday, 22 March 2014, John Kieti <jkieti@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Phares, Ngigi, Conrad

Your focus and preference for server side and enterprise desktop mode solutions is very much appreciated.

However the thousands of local software developers getting into the system will not fit into just that pie of the value chain you are in for now. More so, 30m+ mobile subscribers is no small market place for software entrepreneurs. And nowadays the computer does not have to be on your desk or lap, in fact most computers among Kenyans are mobile phones. It is not bad for policy to at least direct the youth towards the opportunity in mobile.

You'll recall that its a global market place and some of the kids we deride for writing the so called "mVitus" are earning thee figure dollar checks monthly from downloads and ads in india, brazil etc. They just wont shout that aloud. More importantly though M-Pesa is seven years old. Many mobile solutions targeting local/regional problems will not mature as soon as we impatiently expect. We're only 3-4 years into the "mobile craze" and most serious attempts are not over 3 years old. There's no short cuts to developing competitive advantages - even in mobile, give it time. If you are not convinced yet, try the ringtone market and premium SMS services. Its a whole big economy out there, with big money changing hands, and its all mobile!

That said, what would you rather the CS did about local enterprise desktop based solutions and server side services?

Have a nice weekend.

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I'm mystified as well at this obsession with mobile apps.

Not that we should not to them, but there is so much opportunity in other sectors - infrastructure, cloud computing, enterprise applications, content management that Kenya can not only benefit from, but we can be competitive globally.

Looks like mobile apps will be this regime's Pashas & BPOs

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:

...

A fairly narrow view of the technology sector. It's not all mobile.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 04:56, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> wrote:

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/story.php?articleID=2000107530&story_title=Got-talent-Matiangi-is-looking-for-you

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-- My Blog - www.gmeltdown.com ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' The ordinary just won't do

-- with Regards:

blog.denniskioko.com <http://www.denniskioko.com/>

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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

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-- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke

Just imagine this: We have 47 Counties, and each of those Counties require applications to manage Finance, Procurement, Inventory, HR, Payroll, CRM, Asset Mgmt, Maintenance, Revenue Collection, Ticket Sales, Lands Administration, Licenses Administration, Security, DR and 20 other areas If you came up with a Fund of say of Ksh 300million to anyone who comes up with applications that would automate any aspect of a County, pay say Ksh 5,3,2 million for the best applications in every category as long as the guy implements it in a single County, of which you'll provide the link, we would have at least 10 solid SMEs with enterprise applications in the space of about a year. Now, these applications, ought to be made with SaaS in mind, meaning they can be hosted at a centralized site,to which the Counties connect to, seeing the GoK Fibre is supposed to be everywhere. Now, to get the cloud architecture knowledge uptake going, offer Ksh 10M to any group of 5 guys who can show competency in installing, implementing and maintaining OpenStack/OpenNebula /Eucalyptus. That Ksh 10M is their pay for a single year running the County cloud environment, and this they can continue offering ad infinitum. Get another Ksh 10M, offer it to another group of 5 guys who can show proficiency in installing & implementing security applications such as Snort, ntop, TrueCrypt, OpenNMS, let them offer their security services to Counties These are the companies that in a few years time would be good enough to offer their services to central governments in the region, commercial entities et.al, and an ICT Industry would have been born. But, of course everything above doesn't make sense since we need to put it all together into a single tender that can only be won by a Multi-National, as top notch Kenyan Engineers are busy making the next best high school dating application. Regards Waithaka Ngigi On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm mystified as well at this obsession with mobile apps.

Not that we should not to them, but there is so much opportunity in other sectors - infrastructure, cloud computing, enterprise applications, content management that Kenya can not only benefit from, but we can be competitive globally.

Looks like mobile apps will be this regime's Pashas & BPOs

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:

...

A fairly narrow view of the technology sector. It's not all mobile.

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 04:56, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> wrote:

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/story.php?articleID=2000107530&story_title=Got-talent-Matiangi-is-looking-for-you

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-- *Regards,* *Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke