Liko of course there is a huge difference in terms of the opportunities, I concur. But remember in business there is the enterprise economy and there is SME economy, the latter is what's actually the bigger contributor to the economy, talk about jua kali and the likes. Now coming to ICT, we come from a position where local businesses are buying accounting applications from South Africa, this has more to do with the service providers that are the likes of you Liko and Bernard than the government.

Spinlet is indeed quite huge in that market, and as we see the same west africa companies though funded by European companies venturing into our ecommerce industry.

Bernard I can quote several companies that are doing something in terms of sustaining the lives of at least 5 people. Take the case of waabeh.com, they are actually quoting figures, they actually get paid downloads from as far as Japan for Kenyan music. Ukall does have employees on payroll and though I wouldn't know whether this can go out yet, they have good prospects already. They are making good money.

I met with a Kenyan developer in Barcelona recently who said he makes 2 million a month from mobile apps. The downloads that actually make the revenue ticker go are of course not Kenyan, but external, but he is making money in the global scene. That's what we would take as an example of exporting as opposed to the importing we are used to. 

So yes, Angry birds and Flappy birds can happen in Kenya.

What happens is that you can't expect that huge level of success but there are indeed businesses popping up.


On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Bernard Kioko <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote:

Martin are these apps your quoting capable of actually sustaining a livelihood? Eg a spinlet initiative in kenya...are consumers going to buy music to a point ppl can make profits to pay rent..buy food...pay school fees etc

On 22 Mar 2014 15:32, "Martin Gicheru" <martingicheru@gmail.com> wrote:
What Phares and Ngigi say is true, but if you look at some applications that do not necessarily rely on govt for revenue like Spinlet in Nigeria and Ukall here locally, you will notice the fronting is mobile but they really are desktop and web apps who's delivery is mobile. 

For example, would you say Waabeh is a mobile app? It's a mass consumption app that spans both platforms and processing is on the cloud, if such an app were to succeed and it already looks like its headed that direction, couldn't that then count as one of the successes of mobile apps? 

What developing mobile apps seeks to do in this market is ensuring that the platform that most users feel at home on have content that is local that would then make Kenyan consumers start believing in local products. 

So if you are using a mobile app to stream local music which you paid for via local payments, manage your chama via a mobile app or on a tablet than it will make sense for the corporates to also think mobile first when delivering services. Think microinsurance data collection, govt is the biggest client but let's not forget we have a growing enterprise that seeks to be seen to be successful and cool.

Regards,
Martin Gicheru


On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 3:02 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
John

What you are talking about (govt supporting mobile apps) only works in labs and incubator

Real world ... Please re-look at Ngigi and Phares arguments

Thanks


On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Bernard Kioko <bkioko@bernsoft.com> wrote:

Ngigi I agree with you.

On 22 Mar 2014 14:21, "Ngigi Waithaka" <ngigi@at.co.ke> wrote:
There are few global pure-play mobile firms that are profitable and/or cash flow positive. Its really really hard to get the Internet to pay for something and without resorting to the old-age game of advertising and in which case you will need numbers north of 100M Users to be taken seriously.

In order to get to those level of users, you would need to invest in a few billion shillings to get things moving in terms of advertising as well as the hosting these applications.

So, while we hear of Twitter, WhatsApp and other successful mobile firms, it would be wise to know that without a solid funding background to these non-profit making companies, they wouldn't be there.

Now, where does that money to invest in these firms come from? It comes from those American firms such as IBM, HP, Intel, CISCO, Google, Symantec, Amazon; solid companies that are making products that users actually get their hard earned cash to pay for.

So, if you would ask me, we would need first to create our own industry first, with applications that the market is actually paying for (e.g The Ksh 15B GoK Enterprise Service Market) before we get to investing in applications that are built first then someone figures out how to make cash later.

The problem as I have seen in the local market is the tendency to just build applications for the sake of it and that ultimately no one will pay anything for.

And finally, enterprise applications (what you maybe be call server side) are those applications that actually help someone in their work. Their delivery modes are vast (desktops, tablets, phones etc) They are basically applications that a user would pay for.

So while MPesa rans on mobile phones its actually an enterprise application if you just think what goes on behind the scenes and as you look for the revenue model.

So before we get to start yet another competition to review the best dating app, let look at the fact that there are companies in this country that are already paying billions for certain applications, and if there are good local options, they wouldn't mind buying local.

My point is, lets invest first-and-foremost in applications that have a ready market, that the market is already paying for, before we start applications that even the market hasn't figured out yet how to make them commercially viable.

Regards
Waithaka Ngigi


On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
John,

You forget that mobile focuses on delivery. No real computing happens on mobile. Facebook runs massive data centers to compliment it's mobile offering. So does Google, to complement android. M-Pesa had to get capacity in rack space. Mobile is but a delivery tool. The argument that we should focus on mobile is akin to saying that we should scrap universities (knowledge 'producers') and focus on printing presses, because people read books. 

Most mobile applications are hollow at best without infrastructure. 

Think about it all the leaders in mobile Instagram, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Safaricom have massive compute capacity (Instagram leases from amazon). We on the other hand only want to focus on delivery. 


Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 13:22, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Kieti,
How comes none of these thousands of software developers are supplying even a single solution to government. How comes government services are barely available to the millions of Kenyans via mobile? 

See our drift, government should be removing barriers and improving service delivery for all. 

Also, what was the role of governments in the likes of Angry Birds, King (Candy Crush Saga) and Facebook, beyond providing an enabling environment - which we don't do here. 

On Saturday, 22 March 2014, John Kieti <jkieti@gmail.com> wrote:
Phares, Ngigi, Conrad

Your focus and preference for server side and enterprise desktop mode solutions is very much appreciated.

However the thousands of local software developers getting into the system will not fit into just that pie of the value chain you are in for now. More so, 30m+ mobile subscribers is no small market place for software entrepreneurs. And nowadays the computer does not have to be on your desk or lap, in fact most computers among Kenyans are mobile phones. It is not bad for policy to at least direct the youth towards the opportunity in mobile.

You'll recall that its a global market place and some of the kids we deride for writing the so called "mVitus" are earning thee figure dollar checks monthly from downloads and ads in india, brazil etc. They just wont shout that aloud. More importantly though M-Pesa is seven years old. Many mobile solutions targeting local/regional problems will not mature as soon as we impatiently expect. We're only 3-4 years into the "mobile craze" and  most serious attempts are not over 3 years old. There's no short cuts to developing competitive advantages - even in mobile, give it time. If you are not convinced yet, try the ringtone market and premium SMS services. Its a whole big economy out there, with big money changing hands, and its all mobile!

That said, what would you rather the CS did about local enterprise desktop based solutions and server side services?

Have a nice weekend.


On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm mystified as well at this obsession with mobile apps.

Not that we should not to them, but there is so much opportunity in other sectors - infrastructure, cloud computing, enterprise applications, content management that Kenya can not only benefit from, but we can be competitive globally.

Looks like mobile apps will be this regime's Pashas & BPOs


On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
A fairly narrow view of the technology sector. It's not all mobile. 

Sent from my mobile device, excuse brevity

On 22 Mar 2014, at 04:56, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> wrote:

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