Hi Listers, A few days ago an was in a Kenya Bus and got a deja vu moment as I looked at the conductor standing in front of me dispensing his ticket. http://quadrantshift.co.ke/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/kbs-ticket-machine.jpg. The moment tool me back to 1978 and I a sitting in a number 29 bus coming from Eastleigh, where I went to school (now you can understand my lack of etiquette at times) to Buru Buru where we lived. To date the machine remains the same with what seems to be a very basic activity, dispensing tickets. Which would explain why it remains the same no fancy additions or features, but what many of you might not know is that it seats at the heart of a very elaborate system. This easily overlooked device gives Kenya Bus Management Company the wealth of information that keeps them ahead of the pack and kept them operational event after all the groups of raiders who have owned the company over the past 20 or so years, lose of their garage in Eastleigh, lose of the monopoly in Nairobi and Mombasa, lose of the sole use of the Bus Terminal in Nairobi. Now that little gadget that we all take for granted as we start new transport organisations is what has kept them going. There is a product ready to be transitioned to the 21st century if only we stopped looking for opportunities for innovation in all the wrong places. A true innovation. Regards PS. I am a sower, I leave harvesting to others. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
Speaking from personal experience, the problem with the ticketing machines is one of management on the part of the bus company owners... There have been attempts to get rugged ticketing devices (the sort that farmers choice etc use when on the road) but they are not keen on them... One rugged device is around 2,000 USD. For 10 of them, you would need to invest in what would otherwise be a down-payment for a bus... Additionally the additional cost with regards to human resource and other ICT infrastructure is not considered worth it, by the bus companies... It's an unfortunate situation, given the obvious benefits a tech based system would have. The sad thing is all 3 major bus companies have basically reached a stagnation point with regards to operational efficiency and have barely increased their fleetsize in the last five years (proof is the fact that new bus companies, City Shuttle et al are coming into the space). On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 12:58 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
Hi Listers,
A few days ago an was in a Kenya Bus and got a deja vu moment as I looked at the conductor standing in front of me dispensing his ticket.
http://quadrantshift.co.ke/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/kbs-ticket-machine.jpg .
The moment tool me back to 1978 and I a sitting in a number 29 bus coming from Eastleigh, where I went to school (now you can understand my lack of etiquette at times) to Buru Buru where we lived.
To date the machine remains the same with what seems to be a very basic activity, dispensing tickets. Which would explain why it remains the same no fancy additions or features, but what many of you might not know is that it seats at the heart of a very elaborate system.
This easily overlooked device gives Kenya Bus Management Company the wealth of information that keeps them ahead of the pack and kept them operational event after all the groups of raiders who have owned the company over the past 20 or so years, lose of their garage in Eastleigh, lose of the monopoly in Nairobi and Mombasa, lose of the sole use of the Bus Terminal in Nairobi.
Now that little gadget that we all take for granted as we start new transport organisations is what has kept them going. There is a product ready to be transitioned to the 21st century if only we stopped looking for opportunities for innovation in all the wrong places.
A true innovation.
Regards
PS. I am a sower, I leave harvesting to others.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- With Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
Phares, I would like to disagree with you on the point of cost of the device, the problem with most of us technical people is that we are unable to sell the true benefits of a the solution we offer as we look at the solution from a technical point than a business point. We need to be able to sell the business solution not the technology at which point the US$ 2,000/- will be looked at an asset acquisition that by definition will improve the bottom line. A quick one could be why not make the ticket larger and then sell advertising space on it, I know I get bored when travelling as the average trip takes at least 15 minutes. The reason that ticketing device is strong at the core of KBMC's system is because it delivers all we need to do to offer an upgrade that retains the current functionality and then moves them forward from there. I have had the opportunity to see what Kenya Business Management Company does with the data collected from those perceived archaic tickets dispensers coupled with the route records filled by the conductor at predefined locations and it is a marvel. Watch Kenya Bus Management Company has we phase out the 14 sitters, and it is a target market that any forward thinking developer should look into. City Hopper did not take on an efficient ticketing system and neither a route planning application because not even Thuo appreciated those metal gadgets in all the time he was MD of Kenya Bus. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 June, 2011 8:10:20 Subject: Re: [kictanet] A true innovation? Speaking from personal experience, the problem with the ticketing machines is one of management on the part of the bus company owners... There have been attempts to get rugged ticketing devices (the sort that farmers choice etc use when on the road) but they are not keen on them... One rugged device is around 2,000 USD. For 10 of them, you would need to invest in what would otherwise be a down-payment for a bus... Additionally the additional cost with regards to human resource and other ICT infrastructure is not considered worth it, by the bus companies... It's an unfortunate situation, given the obvious benefits a tech based system would have. The sad thing is all 3 major bus companies have basically reached a stagnation point with regards to operational efficiency and have barely increased their fleetsize in the last five years (proof is the fact that new bus companies, City Shuttle et al are coming into the space). On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 12:58 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi Listers,
A few days ago an was in a Kenya Bus and got a deja vu moment as I looked at the conductor standing in front of me dispensing his ticket.
http://quadrantshift.co.ke/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/kbs-ticket-machine.jpg.
The moment tool me back to 1978 and I a sitting in a number 29 bus coming from Eastleigh, where I went to school (now you can understand my lack of etiquette at times) to Buru Buru where we lived.
To date the machine remains the same with what seems to be a very basic activity, dispensing tickets. Which would explain why it remains the same no fancy additions or features, but what many of you might not know is that it seats at the heart of a very elaborate system.
This easily overlooked device gives Kenya Bus Management Company the wealth of information that keeps them ahead of the pack and kept them operational event after all the groups of raiders who have owned the company over the past 20 or so years, lose of their garage in Eastleigh, lose of the monopoly in Nairobi and Mombasa, lose of the sole use of the Bus Terminal in Nairobi.
Now that little gadget that we all take for granted as we start new transport organisations is what has kept them going. There is a product ready to be transitioned to the 21st century if only we stopped looking for opportunities for innovation in all the wrong places.
A true innovation.
Regards
PS. I am a sower, I leave harvesting to others. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- With Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
Bobby, I think the problem could be bigger than ticketing but the whole management set up. I found www.tpg.ch to be quite efficient because of centralised management. You pay for the card monthly or weekly and your details are stored in a magnetic strip card, the buses have no conductors but the company has contracted special Police who jump into the bus at random and will slap a hefty fine (instant justice) on anyone found in the bus without a valid ticket or card. The buses of course also have the automatic ticket dispensers where you drop in a coin or slot your card, considering that the buses are managed by the county it might be a model worth studying despite the fact that we are likely to experience resistance from those manning the transport sector which is already a mess and reverses all the gains we make as a nation due to the inefficiencies. Best Regards On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 8:28 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Phares,
I would like to disagree with you on the point of cost of the device, the problem with most of us technical people is that we are unable to sell the true benefits of a the solution we offer as we look at the solution from a technical point than a business point.
We need to be able to sell the business solution not the technology at which point the US$ 2,000/- will be looked at an asset acquisition that by definition will improve the bottom line. A quick one could be why not make the ticket larger and then sell advertising space on it, I know I get bored when travelling as the average trip takes at least 15 minutes.
The reason that ticketing device is strong at the core of KBMC's system is because it delivers all we need to do to offer an upgrade that retains the current functionality and then moves them forward from there.
I have had the opportunity to see what Kenya Business Management Company does with the data collected from those perceived archaic tickets dispensers coupled with the route records filled by the conductor at predefined locations and it is a marvel.
Watch Kenya Bus Management Company has we phase out the 14 sitters, and it is a target market that any forward thinking developer should look into.
City Hopper did not take on an efficient ticketing system and neither a route planning application because not even Thuo appreciated those metal gadgets in all the time he was MD of Kenya Bus.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
------------------------------ *From:* Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Fri, 24 June, 2011 8:10:20 *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] A true innovation?
Speaking from personal experience, the problem with the ticketing machines is one of management on the part of the bus company owners... There have been attempts to get rugged ticketing devices (the sort that farmers choice etc use when on the road) but they are not keen on them... One rugged device is around 2,000 USD. For 10 of them, you would need to invest in what would otherwise be a down-payment for a bus... Additionally the additional cost with regards to human resource and other ICT infrastructure is not considered worth it, by the bus companies... It's an unfortunate situation, given the obvious benefits a tech based system would have. The sad thing is all 3 major bus companies have basically reached a stagnation point with regards to operational efficiency and have barely increased their fleetsize in the last five years (proof is the fact that new bus companies, City Shuttle et al are coming into the space).
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 12:58 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
Hi Listers,
A few days ago an was in a Kenya Bus and got a deja vu moment as I looked at the conductor standing in front of me dispensing his ticket.
http://quadrantshift.co.ke/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/kbs-ticket-machine.jpg .
The moment tool me back to 1978 and I a sitting in a number 29 bus coming from Eastleigh, where I went to school (now you can understand my lack of etiquette at times) to Buru Buru where we lived.
To date the machine remains the same with what seems to be a very basic activity, dispensing tickets. Which would explain why it remains the same no fancy additions or features, but what many of you might not know is that it seats at the heart of a very elaborate system.
This easily overlooked device gives Kenya Bus Management Company the wealth of information that keeps them ahead of the pack and kept them operational event after all the groups of raiders who have owned the company over the past 20 or so years, lose of their garage in Eastleigh, lose of the monopoly in Nairobi and Mombasa, lose of the sole use of the Bus Terminal in Nairobi.
Now that little gadget that we all take for granted as we start new transport organisations is what has kept them going. There is a product ready to be transitioned to the 21st century if only we stopped looking for opportunities for innovation in all the wrong places.
A true innovation.
Regards
PS. I am a sower, I leave harvesting to others.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
Hi Barrack, You are doing exactly what I said we should avoid as techies, we need to take our clients from what the know to where we want them to go if you get to the destination too quickly there will be resistance. As a developing Nation we need to create jobs, Smart Bus tried the smart card issue but it failed as we are not yet disciplined enough to be left unsupervised. City Council of Nairobi has been unable to replace the parking attendants even with Kisia at the helm, we need to appreciate that there is more to labour intensive applications can just a lack of technology. The Kenya Bus system goes beyond just the ticketing machine, any changes will need to be effected from the backend towards the front end which is the bus/matatu/boda boda. Virtual City have shown how a previously manual process can be automated without getting rid of staff but by empowering them to become more productive. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 June, 2011 9:21:43 Subject: Re: [kictanet] A true innovation? Bobby, I think the problem could be bigger than ticketing but the whole management set up. I found www.tpg.ch to be quite efficient because of centralised management. You pay for the card monthly or weekly and your details are stored in a magnetic strip card, the buses have no conductors but the company has contracted special Police who jump into the bus at random and will slap a hefty fine (instant justice) on anyone found in the bus without a valid ticket or card. The buses of course also have the automatic ticket dispensers where you drop in a coin or slot your card, considering that the buses are managed by the county it might be a model worth studying despite the fact that we are likely to experience resistance from those manning the transport sector which is already a mess and reverses all the gains we make as a nation due to the inefficiencies. Best Regards On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 8:28 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Phares,
I would like to disagree with you on the point of cost of the device, the problem with most of us technical people is that we are unable to sell the true benefits of a the solution we offer as we look at the solution from a technical point than a business point.
We need to be able to sell the business solution not the technology at which point the US$ 2,000/- will be looked at an asset acquisition that by definition will improve the bottom line. A quick one could be why not make the ticket larger and then sell advertising space on it, I know I get bored when travelling as the average trip takes at least 15 minutes.
The reason that ticketing device is strong at the core of KBMC's system is because it delivers all we need to do to offer an upgrade that retains the current functionality and then moves them forward from there.
I have had the opportunity to see what Kenya Business Management Company does with the data collected from those perceived archaic tickets dispensers coupled with the route records filled by the conductor at predefined locations and it is a marvel.
Watch Kenya Bus Management Company has we phase out the 14 sitters, and it is a target market that any forward thinking developer should look into.
City Hopper did not take on an efficient ticketing system and neither a route planning application because not even Thuo appreciated those metal gadgets in all the time he was MD of Kenya Bus.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>
To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 June, 2011 8:10:20 Subject: Re: [kictanet] A true innovation?
Speaking from personal experience, the problem with the ticketing machines is one of management on the part of the bus company owners... There have been attempts to get rugged ticketing devices (the sort that farmers choice etc use when on the road) but they are not keen on them... One rugged device is around 2,000 USD. For 10 of them, you would need to invest in what would otherwise be a down-payment for a bus... Additionally the additional cost with regards to human resource and other ICT infrastructure is not considered worth it, by the bus companies... It's an unfortunate situation, given the obvious benefits a tech based system would have. The sad thing is all 3 major bus companies have basically reached a stagnation point with regards to operational efficiency and have barely increased their fleetsize in the last five years (proof is the fact that new bus companies, City Shuttle et al are coming into the space).
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 12:58 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Listers,
A few days ago an was in a Kenya Bus and got a deja vu moment as I looked at the conductor standing in front of me dispensing his ticket.
http://quadrantshift.co.ke/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/kbs-ticket-machine.jpg.
The moment tool me back to 1978 and I a sitting in a number 29 bus coming from Eastleigh, where I went to school (now you can understand my lack of etiquette at times) to Buru Buru where we lived.
To date the machine remains the same with what seems to be a very basic activity, dispensing tickets. Which would explain why it remains the same no fancy additions or features, but what many of you might not know is that it seats at the heart of a very elaborate system.
This easily overlooked device gives Kenya Bus Management Company the wealth of information that keeps them ahead of the pack and kept them operational event after all the groups of raiders who have owned the company over the past 20 or so years, lose of their garage in Eastleigh, lose of the monopoly in Nairobi and Mombasa, lose of the sole use of the Bus Terminal in Nairobi.
Now that little gadget that we all take for granted as we start new transport organisations is what has kept them going. There is a product ready to be transitioned to the 21st century if only we stopped looking for opportunities for innovation in all the wrong places.
A true innovation.
Regards
PS. I am a sower, I leave harvesting to others. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afriregister.bi, www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
Bobby, I agree with you ,however I also think increased efficiencies are bound to benefit the sector and the public as a whole, I am not pouring cold water on the legacy systems at KBS but a change is as good as a rest, I mentioned TPG since I found it to be a very modern and efficient way of managing transport, furthermore the buses are managed and owned by the county, of interest is the fact that the system is almost similar to the megarider that KBMS had implemented but which flopped, ever noticed how some of those conductors avoid issuing tickets when they know the inspectors are not around, this is what is killing the companies if only we can propose a system that minimizes the interaction between humans and money. On 6/24/11, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Barrack,
You are doing exactly what I said we should avoid as techies, we need to take our clients from what the know to where we want them to go if you get to the destination too quickly there will be resistance.
As a developing Nation we need to create jobs, Smart Bus tried the smart card issue but it failed as we are not yet disciplined enough to be left unsupervised. City Council of Nairobi has been unable to replace the parking attendants even with Kisia at the helm, we need to appreciate that there is more to labour intensive applications can just a lack of technology.
The Kenya Bus system goes beyond just the ticketing machine, any changes will need to be effected from the backend towards the front end which is the bus/matatu/boda boda.
Virtual City have shown how a previously manual process can be automated without getting rid of staff but by empowering them to become more productive.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 June, 2011 9:21:43 Subject: Re: [kictanet] A true innovation?
Bobby,
I think the problem could be bigger than ticketing but the whole management set up. I found www.tpg.ch to be quite efficient because of centralised management. You pay for the card monthly or weekly and your details are stored in a magnetic strip card, the buses have no conductors but the company has contracted special Police who jump into the bus at random and will slap a hefty fine (instant justice) on anyone found in the bus without a valid ticket or card. The buses of course also have the automatic ticket dispensers where you drop in a coin or slot your card, considering that the buses are managed by the county it might be a model worth studying despite the fact that we are likely to experience resistance from those manning the transport sector which is already a mess and reverses all the gains we make as a nation due to the inefficiencies.
Best Regards
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 8:28 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Phares,
I would like to disagree with you on the point of cost of the device, the problem with most of us technical people is that we are unable to sell the true benefits of a the solution we offer as we look at the solution from a technical point than a business point.
We need to be able to sell the business solution not the technology at which point the US$ 2,000/- will be looked at an asset acquisition that by definition will improve the bottom line. A quick one could be why not make the ticket
larger and then sell advertising space on it, I know I get bored when travelling as the average trip takes at least 15 minutes.
The reason that ticketing device is strong at the core of KBMC's system is because it delivers all we need to do to offer an upgrade that retains the current functionality and then moves them forward from there.
I have had the opportunity to see what Kenya Business Management Company does with the data collected from those perceived archaic tickets dispensers coupled with the route records filled by the conductor at predefined locations and it is a marvel.
Watch Kenya Bus Management Company has we phase out the 14 sitters, and it is a target market that any forward thinking developer should look into.
City Hopper did not take on an efficient ticketing system and neither a route planning application because not even Thuo appreciated those metal gadgets in all the time he was MD of Kenya Bus.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>
To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 June, 2011 8:10:20 Subject: Re: [kictanet] A true innovation?
Speaking from personal experience, the problem with the ticketing machines is one of management on the part of the bus company owners... There have been attempts to get rugged ticketing devices (the sort that farmers choice etc use when on the road) but they are not keen on them... One rugged device is around 2,000 USD. For 10 of them, you would need to invest in what would otherwise be a down-payment for a bus... Additionally the additional cost with regards to human resource and other ICT infrastructure is not considered worth it, by the bus companies... It's an unfortunate situation, given the obvious benefits a tech based system would have. The sad thing is all 3 major bus companies have basically reached a stagnation point with regards to operational efficiency and have barely increased their fleetsize in the last five years (proof is the fact that new bus companies, City Shuttle et al are coming into the space).
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 12:58 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Listers,
A few days ago an was in a Kenya Bus and got a deja vu moment as I looked at the conductor standing in front of me dispensing his ticket.
http://quadrantshift.co.ke/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/kbs-ticket-machine.jpg.
The moment tool me back to 1978 and I a sitting in a number 29 bus coming from Eastleigh, where I went to school (now you can understand my lack of etiquette at times) to Buru Buru where we lived.
To date the machine remains the same with what seems to be a very basic activity, dispensing tickets. Which would explain why it remains the same no fancy additions or features, but what many of you might not know is that it seats at the heart of a very elaborate system.
This easily overlooked device gives Kenya Bus Management Company the wealth of information that keeps them ahead of the pack and kept them operational event after all the groups of raiders who have owned the company over the past 20 or so years, lose of their garage in Eastleigh, lose of the monopoly in Nairobi and Mombasa, lose of the sole use of the Bus Terminal in Nairobi.
Now that little gadget that we all take for granted as we start new transport organisations is what has kept them going. There is a product ready to be
transitioned to the 21st century if only we stopped looking for opportunities for innovation in all the wrong places.
A true innovation.
Regards
PS. I am a sower, I leave harvesting to others. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afriregister.bi, www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
Barrack, The reason I am trying to put across is that KBMS retains their old faithful system because there is no alternative being offered. This means that there is an untapped opportunity. On the issue of issuing tickets at least KBMS receives 80-90% of the moneys due to it, the other operators have absolutely no record keeping or collection system which would mean that the owners will be lucky to receive more than 50% of the takings. A lack of monitoring in any business is a sure recipe for failure, I have seen this even in technology environments like cyber cafes where billing systems do not capture revenue from printing and CD writing. In the ISP business many did not implement integrated billing systems allowing their staff to run virtual organisations. They never realised where the lick was even after firing half the staff and still continue to haemorrhage. I again reiterate, we need to apply technology and not just peddle technology for its own sake. Regards PS. Technology is love and love shall overcome all - Creator of the Plasma Display screen. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 June, 2011 18:48:59 Subject: Re: [kictanet] A true innovation? Bobby, I agree with you ,however I also think increased efficiencies are bound to benefit the sector and the public as a whole, I am not pouring cold water on the legacy systems at KBS but a change is as good as a rest, I mentioned TPG since I found it to be a very modern and efficient way of managing transport, furthermore the buses are managed and owned by the county, of interest is the fact that the system is almost similar to the megarider that KBMS had implemented but which flopped, ever noticed how some of those conductors avoid issuing tickets when they know the inspectors are not around, this is what is killing the companies if only we can propose a system that minimizes the interaction between humans and money. On 6/24/11, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Barrack,
You are doing exactly what I said we should avoid as techies, we need to take our clients from what the know to where we want them to go if you get to the destination too quickly there will be resistance.
As a developing Nation we need to create jobs, Smart Bus tried the smart card issue but it failed as we are not yet disciplined enough to be left unsupervised. City Council of Nairobi has been unable to replace the parking attendants even with Kisia at the helm, we need to appreciate that there is more to labour intensive applications can just a lack of technology.
The Kenya Bus system goes beyond just the ticketing machine, any changes will need to be effected from the backend towards the front end which is the bus/matatu/boda boda.
Virtual City have shown how a previously manual process can be automated without getting rid of staff but by empowering them to become more productive.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 June, 2011 9:21:43 Subject: Re: [kictanet] A true innovation?
Bobby,
I think the problem could be bigger than ticketing but the whole management set up. I found www.tpg.ch to be quite efficient because of centralised management. You pay for the card monthly or weekly and your details are stored in a magnetic strip card, the buses have no conductors but the company has contracted special Police who jump into the bus at random and will slap a hefty fine (instant justice) on anyone found in the bus without a valid ticket or card. The buses of course also have the automatic ticket dispensers where you drop in a coin or slot your card, considering that the buses are managed by the county it might be a model worth studying despite the fact that we are likely to experience resistance from those manning the transport sector which is already a mess and reverses all the gains we make as a nation due to the inefficiencies.
Best Regards
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 8:28 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Phares,
I would like to disagree with you on the point of cost of the device, the problem with most of us technical people is that we are unable to sell the true benefits of a the solution we offer as we look at the solution from a technical point than a business point.
We need to be able to sell the business solution not the technology at which point the US$ 2,000/- will be looked at an asset acquisition that by definition will improve the bottom line. A quick one could be why not make the ticket
larger and then sell advertising space on it, I know I get bored when travelling as the average trip takes at least 15 minutes.
The reason that ticketing device is strong at the core of KBMC's system is because it delivers all we need to do to offer an upgrade that retains the current functionality and then moves them forward from there.
I have had the opportunity to see what Kenya Business Management Company does with the data collected from those perceived archaic tickets dispensers coupled with the route records filled by the conductor at predefined locations and it is a marvel.
Watch Kenya Bus Management Company has we phase out the 14 sitters, and it is a target market that any forward thinking developer should look into.
City Hopper did not take on an efficient ticketing system and neither a route planning application because not even Thuo appreciated those metal gadgets in all the time he was MD of Kenya Bus.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>
To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 June, 2011 8:10:20 Subject: Re: [kictanet] A true innovation?
Speaking from personal experience, the problem with the ticketing machines is one of management on the part of the bus company owners... There have been attempts to get rugged ticketing devices (the sort that farmers choice etc use when on the road) but they are not keen on them... One rugged device is around 2,000 USD. For 10 of them, you would need to invest in what would otherwise be a down-payment for a bus... Additionally the additional cost with regards to human resource and other ICT infrastructure is not considered worth it, by the bus companies... It's an unfortunate situation, given the obvious benefits a tech based system would have. The sad thing is all 3 major bus companies have basically reached a stagnation point with regards to operational efficiency and have barely increased their fleetsize in the last five years (proof is the fact that new bus companies, City Shuttle et al are coming into the space).
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 12:58 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Listers,
A few days ago an was in a Kenya Bus and got a deja vu moment as I looked at the conductor standing in front of me dispensing his ticket.
http://quadrantshift.co.ke/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/kbs-ticket-machine.jpg.
The moment tool me back to 1978 and I a sitting in a number 29 bus coming from Eastleigh, where I went to school (now you can understand my lack of etiquette at times) to Buru Buru where we lived.
To date the machine remains the same with what seems to be a very basic activity, dispensing tickets. Which would explain why it remains the same no fancy additions or features, but what many of you might not know is that it seats at the heart of a very elaborate system.
This easily overlooked device gives Kenya Bus Management Company the wealth of information that keeps them ahead of the pack and kept them operational event after all the groups of raiders who have owned the company over the past 20 or so years, lose of their garage in Eastleigh, lose of the monopoly in Nairobi and Mombasa, lose of the sole use of the Bus Terminal in Nairobi.
Now that little gadget that we all take for granted as we start new transport organisations is what has kept them going. There is a product ready to be
transitioned to the 21st century if only we stopped looking for opportunities for innovation in all the wrong places.
A true innovation.
Regards
PS. I am a sower, I leave harvesting to others. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail....
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afriregister.bi, www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
Robert... You have answered your own question... KBMS & CITI Hoppa let go of the machine for the bunch of receipts that they currently use... It's a management problem, that's why they have abandoned all proper structure. The management of this companies look happy with the system as is... Not much you can do... On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:11 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Barrack,
The reason I am trying to put across is that KBMS retains their old faithful system because there is no alternative being offered. This means that there is an untapped opportunity.
On the issue of issuing tickets at least KBMS receives 80-90% of the moneys due to it, the other operators have absolutely no record keeping or collection system which would mean that the owners will be lucky to receive more than 50% of the takings.
A lack of monitoring in any business is a sure recipe for failure, I have seen this even in technology environments like cyber cafes where billing systems do not capture revenue from printing and CD writing. In the ISP business many did not implement integrated billing systems allowing their staff to run virtual organisations. They never realised where the lick was even after firing half the staff and still continue to haemorrhage.
I again reiterate, we need to apply technology and not just peddle technology for its own sake.
Regards
PS. Technology is love and love shall overcome all - Creator of the Plasma Display screen.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
------------------------------ *From:* Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Fri, 24 June, 2011 18:48:59
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] A true innovation?
Bobby,
I agree with you ,however I also think increased efficiencies are bound to benefit the sector and the public as a whole, I am not pouring cold water on the legacy systems at KBS but a change is as good as a rest, I mentioned TPG since I found it to be a very modern and efficient way of managing transport, furthermore the buses are managed and owned by the county, of interest is the fact that the system is almost similar to the megarider that KBMS had implemented but which flopped, ever noticed how some of those conductors avoid issuing tickets when they know the inspectors are not around, this is what is killing the companies if only we can propose a system that minimizes the interaction between humans and money.
Hi Barrack,
You are doing exactly what I said we should avoid as techies, we need to take our clients from what the know to where we want them to go if you get to the destination too quickly there will be resistance.
As a developing Nation we need to create jobs, Smart Bus tried the smart card issue but it failed as we are not yet disciplined enough to be left unsupervised. City Council of Nairobi has been unable to replace the parking attendants even with Kisia at the helm, we need to appreciate that there is more to labour intensive applications can just a lack of technology.
The Kenya Bus system goes beyond just the ticketing machine, any changes will need to be effected from the backend towards the front end which is the bus/matatu/boda boda.
Virtual City have shown how a previously manual process can be automated without getting rid of staff but by empowering them to become more productive.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 June, 2011 9:21:43 Subject: Re: [kictanet] A true innovation?
Bobby,
I think the problem could be bigger than ticketing but the whole management set up. I found www.tpg.ch to be quite efficient because of centralised management. You pay for the card monthly or weekly and your details are stored in a magnetic strip card, the buses have no conductors but the company has contracted special Police who jump into the bus at random and will slap a hefty fine (instant justice) on anyone found in the bus without a valid ticket or card. The buses of course also have the automatic ticket dispensers where you drop in a coin or slot your card, considering that the buses are managed by the county it might be a model worth studying despite the fact that we are likely to experience resistance from those manning the transport sector which is already a mess and reverses all the gains we make as a nation due to the inefficiencies.
Best Regards
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 8:28 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Phares,
I would like to disagree with you on the point of cost of the device, the problem with most of us technical people is that we are unable to sell
true benefits of a the solution we offer as we look at the solution from a technical point than a business point.
We need to be able to sell the business solution not the technology at which point the US$ 2,000/- will be looked at an asset acquisition that by definition will improve the bottom line. A quick one could be why not make the ticket
larger and then sell advertising space on it, I know I get bored when travelling as the average trip takes at least 15 minutes.
The reason that ticketing device is strong at the core of KBMC's system is because it delivers all we need to do to offer an upgrade that retains
current functionality and then moves them forward from there.
I have had the opportunity to see what Kenya Business Management Company does with the data collected from those perceived archaic tickets dispensers coupled with the route records filled by the conductor at predefined locations and it is a marvel.
Watch Kenya Bus Management Company has we phase out the 14 sitters, and it is a target market that any forward thinking developer should look into.
City Hopper did not take on an efficient ticketing system and neither a route planning application because not even Thuo appreciated those metal gadgets in all the time he was MD of Kenya Bus.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>
To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 June, 2011 8:10:20 Subject: Re: [kictanet] A true innovation?
Speaking from personal experience, the problem with the ticketing machines is one of management on the part of the bus company owners... There have been attempts to get rugged ticketing devices (the sort that farmers choice etc use when on the road) but they are not keen on them... One rugged device is around 2,000 USD. For 10 of them, you would need to invest in what would otherwise be a down-payment for a bus... Additionally the additional cost with regards to human resource and other ICT infrastructure is not considered worth it, by the bus companies... It's an unfortunate situation, given the obvious benefits a tech based system would have. The sad thing is all 3 major bus companies have basically reached a stagnation point with regards to operational efficiency and have barely increased their fleetsize in the last five years (proof is
On 6/24/11, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: the the the
fact that new bus companies, City Shuttle et al are coming into the space).
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 12:58 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Listers,
A few days ago an was in a Kenya Bus and got a deja vu moment as I
looked
at the conductor standing in front of me dispensing his ticket.
http://quadrantshift.co.ke/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/kbs-ticket-machine.jpg .
The moment tool me back to 1978 and I a sitting in a number 29 bus
coming
from Eastleigh, where I went to school (now you can understand my lack of etiquette at times) to Buru Buru where we lived.
To date the machine remains the same with what seems to be a very basic activity, dispensing tickets. Which would explain why it remains the same no fancy additions or features, but what many of you might not know is that it seats at the heart of a very elaborate system.
This easily overlooked device gives Kenya Bus Management Company the wealth of information that keeps them ahead of the pack and kept them operational event after all the groups of raiders who have owned the company over the past 20 or so years, lose of their garage in Eastleigh, lose of the monopoly in Nairobi and Mombasa, lose of the sole use of the Bus Terminal in Nairobi.
Now that little gadget that we all take for granted as we start new transport organisations is what has kept them going. There is a product ready to be
transitioned to the 21st century if only we stopped looking for opportunities for innovation in all the wrong places.
A true innovation.
Regards
PS. I am a sower, I leave harvesting to others. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share
knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail....
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afriregister.bi, www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
-- Sent from my mobile device
Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- With Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
Also, I'm not sure if it'd actually be in the owners/operators interest to have a system that documents all their revenues. KRA might get on their case for VAT and income taxes (or higher VAT and income taxes than they pay now), drivers would have to ask the police for receipts for bribes so that they can account for them, 'protection fees' need to be accounted for, too .... Have a good week everyone, Andrea On 27 June 2011 09:24, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Robert... You have answered your own question... KBMS & CITI Hoppa let go of the machine for the bunch of receipts that they currently use... It's a management problem, that's why they have abandoned all proper structure. The management of this companies look happy with the system as is... Not much you can do...
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:11 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
Barrack,
The reason I am trying to put across is that KBMS retains their old faithful system because there is no alternative being offered. This means that there is an untapped opportunity.
On the issue of issuing tickets at least KBMS receives 80-90% of the moneys due to it, the other operators have absolutely no record keeping or collection system which would mean that the owners will be lucky to receive more than 50% of the takings.
A lack of monitoring in any business is a sure recipe for failure, I have seen this even in technology environments like cyber cafes where billing systems do not capture revenue from printing and CD writing. In the ISP business many did not implement integrated billing systems allowing their staff to run virtual organisations. They never realised where the lick was even after firing half the staff and still continue to haemorrhage.
I again reiterate, we need to apply technology and not just peddle technology for its own sake.
Regards
PS. Technology is love and love shall overcome all - Creator of the Plasma Display screen.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
------------------------------ *From:* Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Fri, 24 June, 2011 18:48:59
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] A true innovation?
Bobby,
I agree with you ,however I also think increased efficiencies are bound to benefit the sector and the public as a whole, I am not pouring cold water on the legacy systems at KBS but a change is as good as a rest, I mentioned TPG since I found it to be a very modern and efficient way of managing transport, furthermore the buses are managed and owned by the county, of interest is the fact that the system is almost similar to the megarider that KBMS had implemented but which flopped, ever noticed how some of those conductors avoid issuing tickets when they know the inspectors are not around, this is what is killing the companies if only we can propose a system that minimizes the interaction between humans and money.
Hi Barrack,
You are doing exactly what I said we should avoid as techies, we need to take our clients from what the know to where we want them to go if you get to the destination too quickly there will be resistance.
As a developing Nation we need to create jobs, Smart Bus tried the smart card issue but it failed as we are not yet disciplined enough to be left unsupervised. City Council of Nairobi has been unable to replace the parking attendants even with Kisia at the helm, we need to appreciate that there is more to labour intensive applications can just a lack of technology.
The Kenya Bus system goes beyond just the ticketing machine, any changes will need to be effected from the backend towards the front end which is the bus/matatu/boda boda.
Virtual City have shown how a previously manual process can be automated without getting rid of staff but by empowering them to become more productive.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 June, 2011 9:21:43 Subject: Re: [kictanet] A true innovation?
Bobby,
I think the problem could be bigger than ticketing but the whole management set up. I found www.tpg.ch to be quite efficient because of centralised management. You pay for the card monthly or weekly and your details are stored in a magnetic strip card, the buses have no conductors but the company has contracted special Police who jump into the bus at random and will slap a hefty fine (instant justice) on anyone found in the bus without a valid ticket or card. The buses of course also have the automatic ticket dispensers where you drop in a coin or slot your card, considering that the buses are managed by the county it might be a model worth studying despite the fact that we are likely to experience resistance from those manning the transport sector which is already a mess and reverses all the gains we make as a nation due to the inefficiencies.
Best Regards
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 8:28 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Phares,
I would like to disagree with you on the point of cost of the device,
problem with most of us technical people is that we are unable to sell
true benefits of a the solution we offer as we look at the solution from a technical point than a business point.
We need to be able to sell the business solution not the technology at which point the US$ 2,000/- will be looked at an asset acquisition that by definition will improve the bottom line. A quick one could be why not make the ticket
larger and then sell advertising space on it, I know I get bored when travelling as the average trip takes at least 15 minutes.
The reason that ticketing device is strong at the core of KBMC's system is because it delivers all we need to do to offer an upgrade that retains
current functionality and then moves them forward from there.
I have had the opportunity to see what Kenya Business Management Company does with the data collected from those perceived archaic tickets dispensers coupled with the route records filled by the conductor at predefined locations and it is a marvel.
Watch Kenya Bus Management Company has we phase out the 14 sitters, and it is a target market that any forward thinking developer should look into.
City Hopper did not take on an efficient ticketing system and neither a route planning application because not even Thuo appreciated those metal gadgets in all the time he was MD of Kenya Bus.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>
To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 June, 2011 8:10:20 Subject: Re: [kictanet] A true innovation?
Speaking from personal experience, the problem with the ticketing machines is one of management on the part of the bus company owners... There have been attempts to get rugged ticketing devices (the sort that farmers choice etc use when on the road) but they are not keen on them... One rugged device is around 2,000 USD. For 10 of them, you would need to invest in what would otherwise be a down-payment for a bus... Additionally the additional cost with regards to human resource and other ICT infrastructure is not considered worth it, by the bus companies... It's an unfortunate situation, given the obvious benefits a tech based system would have. The sad thing is all 3 major bus companies have basically reached a stagnation point with regards to operational efficiency and have barely increased their fleetsize in the last five years (proof is
fact that new bus companies, City Shuttle et al are coming into the space).
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 12:58 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Listers,
A few days ago an was in a Kenya Bus and got a deja vu moment as I
looked
at the conductor standing in front of me dispensing his ticket.
http://quadrantshift.co.ke/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/kbs-ticket-machine.jpg .
The moment tool me back to 1978 and I a sitting in a number 29 bus
coming
from Eastleigh, where I went to school (now you can understand my lack of etiquette at times) to Buru Buru where we lived.
To date the machine remains the same with what seems to be a very basic activity, dispensing tickets. Which would explain why it remains the same no fancy additions or features, but what many of you might not know is
it seats at the heart of a very elaborate system.
This easily overlooked device gives Kenya Bus Management Company the wealth of information that keeps them ahead of the pack and kept them operational event after all the groups of raiders who have owned the company over the
On 6/24/11, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: the the the the that past
20 or so years, lose of their garage in Eastleigh, lose of the monopoly in Nairobi and Mombasa, lose of the sole use of the Bus Terminal in Nairobi.
Now that little gadget that we all take for granted as we start new transport organisations is what has kept them going. There is a product ready to be
transitioned to the 21st century if only we stopped looking for opportunities for innovation in all the wrong places.
A true innovation.
Regards
PS. I am a sower, I leave harvesting to others. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share
knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afriregister.bi, www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
-- Sent from my mobile device
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
KBS and Citi Hopa are glorified matatu managers. At the moment, the owner of the matatu pays them a fee to have their matatu as part of the franchise. I guess then that the owner then demands a daily amount from the crew, much the same way other crew operate. I think that with the formation of other Saccos, it's a matter of time before they are done. Citi Hoppa even has a reputation of dropping passengers off before their destination. Compare the Double M Eastland queues to Citi Hoppa who instead have the matatu's queueing looking for people. The City Centre has long been their forte. It's time other Saccos were allowed to bid for the city centre
Robert, I didn't call anyone anything. It's a well-known fact that the matatu business is a cash business - I haven't looked up the data, but I doubt that there is any taxation that captures anything near the actual turnover in the business. This is not unique to the matatu business, but it certainly is the case here. And in the context of our discussion, it is a strong disincentive to employing systems that would, as a side effect, capture all cash transactions - even more so when you can't legally offset some of the costs of your business. You can see matatus paying off policemen at all cornerns of the city (and I'm sure that everyone on this list who drives has been hit on by police for a bribe. I certainly have). It's a cost to public transport operators. There's also plenty of publicly available evidence about the links between the matatu industry and organised crime like Mungiki. Again, paying protection money is a cost if you run such a business (and if you don't, your business won't survive long). That technology can make transactions vastly more transparent is its strength - but also often acts as a disincentive in deploying such systems, whether in government or in private businesses. I seem to recall that the introduction of ETRs wasn't so popular either. Again, this is by no means unique to Kenya, but it's an important factor to consider when pushing for the implementation of technical innovation: There may well be non-technical reasons that are a powerful obstacle. Not unsurmountable, of course, but if you want to implement new technology, you need to understand what could create problems. On 27 June 2011 12:28, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
KBS and Citi Hopa are glorified matatu managers. At the moment, the owner of the matatu pays them a fee to have their matatu as part of the franchise. I guess then that the owner then demands a daily amount from the crew, much the same way other crew operate.
I think that with the formation of other Saccos, it's a matter of time before they are done. Citi Hoppa even has a reputation of dropping passengers off before their destination. Compare the Double M Eastland queues to Citi Hoppa who instead have the matatu's queueing looking for people.
The City Centre has long been their forte. It's time other Saccos were allowed to bid for the city centre
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
Hi, I think we need to appreciate the fact that many local companies are run on the level and stop insinuating that all Kenyans are unscrupulousness. @Phares: You seem to have an aversion to challenges please lets stop spreading such bad karma. @Kioko: A prototype is tested on a small group, even Facebook started within Harvard. @Andrea: When a black man calls another Nigger its deemed a term of being comrades but when a non-black calls a black a nigger its derogatory. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Mon, 27 June, 2011 11:03:33 Subject: Re: [kictanet] A true innovation? Also, I'm not sure if it'd actually be in the owners/operators interest to have a system that documents all their revenues. KRA might get on their case for VAT and income taxes (or higher VAT and income taxes than they pay now), drivers would have to ask the police for receipts for bribes so that they can account for them, 'protection fees' need to be accounted for, too .... Have a good week everyone, Andrea On 27 June 2011 09:24, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote: Robert... You have answered your own question... KBMS & CITI Hoppa let go of the machine for the bunch of receipts that they currently use... It's a management problem, that's why they have abandoned all proper structure. The management of this companies look happy with the system as is... Not much you can do...
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:11 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Barrack,
The reason I am trying to put across is that KBMS retains their old faithful system because there is no alternative being offered. This means that there is an untapped opportunity.
On the issue of issuing tickets at least KBMS receives 80-90% of the moneys due to it, the other operators have absolutely no record keeping or collection system which would mean that the owners will be lucky to receive more than 50% of the takings.
A lack of monitoring in any business is a sure recipe for failure, I have seen this even in technology environments like cyber cafes where billing systems do not capture revenue from printing and CD writing. In the ISP business many did not implement integrated billing systems allowing their staff to run virtual organisations. They never realised where the lick was even after firing half the staff and still continue to haemorrhage.
I again reiterate, we need to apply technology and not just peddle technology for its own sake.
Regards
PS. Technology is love and love shall overcome all - Creator of the Plasma Display screen. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 June, 2011 18:48:59
Subject: Re: [kictanet] A true innovation?
Bobby,
I agree with you ,however I also think increased efficiencies are bound to benefit the sector and the public as a whole, I am not pouring cold water on the legacy systems at KBS but a change is as good as a rest, I mentioned TPG since I found it to be a very modern and efficient way of managing transport, furthermore the buses are managed and owned by the county, of interest is the fact that the system is almost similar to the megarider that KBMS had implemented but which flopped, ever noticed how some of those conductors avoid issuing tickets when they know the inspectors are not around, this is what is killing the companies if only we can propose a system that minimizes the interaction between humans and money.
On 6/24/11, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Barrack,
You are doing exactly what I said we should avoid as techies, we need to take our clients from what the know to where we want them to go if you get to the destination too quickly there will be resistance.
As a developing Nation we need to create jobs, Smart Bus tried the smart card issue but it failed as we are not yet disciplined enough to be left unsupervised. City Council of Nairobi has been unable to replace the parking attendants even with Kisia at the helm, we need to appreciate that there is more to labour intensive applications can just a lack of technology.
The Kenya Bus system goes beyond just the ticketing machine, any changes will need to be effected from the backend towards the front end which is the bus/matatu/boda boda.
Virtual City have shown how a previously manual process can be automated without getting rid of staff but by empowering them to become more productive.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 June, 2011 9:21:43 Subject: Re: [kictanet] A true innovation?
Bobby,
I think the problem could be bigger than ticketing but the whole management set up. I found www.tpg.ch to be quite efficient because of centralised management. You pay for the card monthly or weekly and your details are stored in a magnetic strip card, the buses have no conductors but the company has contracted special Police who jump into the bus at random and will slap a hefty fine (instant justice) on anyone found in the bus without a valid ticket or card. The buses of course also have the automatic ticket dispensers where you drop in a coin or slot your card, considering that the buses are managed by the county it might be a model worth studying despite the fact that we are likely to experience resistance from those manning the transport sector which is already a mess and reverses all the gains we make as a nation due to the inefficiencies.
Best Regards
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 8:28 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Phares,
I would like to disagree with you on the point of cost of the device, the problem with most of us technical people is that we are unable to sell the true benefits of a the solution we offer as we look at the solution from a technical point than a business point.
We need to be able to sell the business solution not the technology at which point the US$ 2,000/- will be looked at an asset acquisition that by definition will improve the bottom line. A quick one could be why not make the ticket
larger and then sell advertising space on it, I know I get bored when travelling as the average trip takes at least 15 minutes.
The reason that ticketing device is strong at the core of KBMC's system is because it delivers all we need to do to offer an upgrade that retains the current functionality and then moves them forward from there.
I have had the opportunity to see what Kenya Business Management Company does with the data collected from those perceived archaic tickets dispensers coupled with the route records filled by the conductor at predefined locations and it is a marvel.
Watch Kenya Bus Management Company has we phase out the 14 sitters, and it is a target market that any forward thinking developer should look into.
City Hopper did not take on an efficient ticketing system and neither a route planning application because not even Thuo appreciated those metal gadgets in all the time he was MD of Kenya Bus.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>
To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 June, 2011 8:10:20 Subject: Re: [kictanet] A true innovation?
Speaking from personal experience, the problem with the ticketing machines is one of management on the part of the bus company owners... There have been attempts to get rugged ticketing devices (the sort that farmers choice etc use when on the road) but they are not keen on them... One rugged device is around 2,000 USD. For 10 of them, you would need to invest in what would otherwise be a down-payment for a bus... Additionally the additional cost with regards to human resource and other ICT infrastructure is not considered worth it, by the bus companies... It's an unfortunate situation, given the obvious benefits a tech based system would have. The sad thing is all 3 major bus companies have basically reached a stagnation point with regards to operational efficiency and have barely increased their fleetsize in the last five years (proof is the fact that new bus companies, City Shuttle et al are coming into the space).
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 12:58 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Listers,
A few days ago an was in a Kenya Bus and got a deja vu moment as I looked at the conductor standing in front of me dispensing his ticket.
http://quadrantshift.co.ke/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/kbs-ticket-machine.jpg.
The moment tool me back to 1978 and I a sitting in a number 29 bus coming from Eastleigh, where I went to school (now you can understand my lack of etiquette at times) to Buru Buru where we lived.
To date the machine remains the same with what seems to be a very basic activity, dispensing tickets. Which would explain why it remains the same no fancy additions or features, but what many of you might not know is that it seats at the heart of a very elaborate system.
This easily overlooked device gives Kenya Bus Management Company the wealth of information that keeps them ahead of the pack and kept them operational event after all the groups of raiders who have owned the company over the past 20 or so years, lose of their garage in Eastleigh, lose of the monopoly in Nairobi and Mombasa, lose of the sole use of the Bus Terminal in Nairobi.
Now that little gadget that we all take for granted as we start new transport organisations is what has kept them going. There is a product ready to be
transitioned to the 21st century if only we stopped looking for opportunities for innovation in all the wrong places.
A true innovation.
Regards
PS. I am a sower, I leave harvesting to others. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- With Regards,
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events
I defer on Smart Bus. How do you do a pilot with less than 10 buses on such an expansive route. Does not make sense to buy a smart card then keep fighting for other matatus since you have no idea when the next smart bus arrives. So the Smart Bus, given it requires the cards, ends up with no passengers at all. If they guaranteed me that they would be buses every 15 minutes, I would probably have bought one, but why buy one if it operates like a normal Matatu? Oh, and there are those cops on Uhuru Highway, where Traffic lights are used as targets over the weekend by drunk drivers.
participants (5)
-
Andrea Bohnstedt -
Barrack Otieno -
Dennis Kioko -
Phares Kariuki -
robert yawe