There is much FUD in this post indeed. To the gentleman bandying around 'Sharia Law'. Banning DSTV does not Sharia law make. Any decent lawyer can make short work of this 'declaration' as it is patently illegal. Kenyans have a constitutional right to assemble. The cleric, and SUPKEM have no authority to interfere with the operations of DSTV. They have no authority to control what is watched or played in private businesses. In fact the only way that declaration would hold is if the cleric or SUPKEM owned the spots in question. As for the constitution, there is no provision either in the current constitution or the new draft constitution for any such absurdities. On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 9:14 AM, Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke> wrote:

Dear Emmanuel,

There is a very clear difference between a chief's proclamation - or read, a "Govt - (which is to an extend been set up through popular will)and laws imposed through religious fundamentalism under flimsy excuses.

Now, while it's got everything to do with the current constitution ( though I do not have any idea under which chapters these proclamations were meted out, I also believe such moves coming while we are trying to piece together a new one, might be a signal to things to come.Infact,it could mean things could only get worse under the new one.

Governance, through popular will is duty-bound to protect the very basic of rights - for all..

Harry

-----Original Message----- From: emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke [mailto:emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 7:48 AM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs

Did I miss some news?

I thought what I happened in North Eastern (Mandera) to be specific was a decree that even the Kenyan chief's proclaim from time to time in "Christian" Kenya. When this happens it affects both Christian and Muslim youth alike.

I am bound to be corrected but this is happening not under the new Constitution but the current one and so my question is what has it got to do with the new constitution? What has it got to do with the Kadhi's courts or any of those parts being contested?

I really think that as reasonable and kind Christ followers, we must ask ourselves, what's Christ do?

Regards,

Emmanuel PS: The views expressed here are my own..

...

-------Original Message------- From: Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke> To: emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs Sent: Apr 26 '10 22:26

You mean, there is something called Sharia law, in this country...???

Last time I checked, it's the kind of law applied and dictated by fundamentalists upon hapless citizenry, with no regard whatsoever for the very basic of basic human rights..

So, who is fooling who..? Next thing, internet will be outlawed in that section of the nation. Who knows where next. And this is at a time we working to open up space and bridge the national divide. Time to smell coffee...

Harry

-------------------- FROM: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry <kictanet-bounces%2Bharry>= comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] ON BEHALF OF S.Murigi Muraya SENT: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:09 AM TO: harry@comtelsys.co.ke CC: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions SUBJECT: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs

Please note Article 24 Subsection 4 of our soon to be new constitution limits how the Bill of Rights may apply to the one religion the Kenyan state is funding with the approval of Kenyans who vote YES!

Of course the Kenyan media is too busy slandering Churches to point this out.

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Wainaina Mungai <[LINK: mailto:wainaina@madeinkenya.org] wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote: The recent move by Muslim Sheikhs to enforce Sharia Law, outlaw DSTV, video dens & related activities in Mandera could not have come at a more unfortunate time. The support they have received from SUPREM (Supreme Council of Kenya Muslims) further complicates the debate on the "continued" inclusion of Kadhi Courts in our Constitution.

Now that the SUPKEM has proved to support such apparent 'treason' in my secular nation, President Kibaki and Prime Minister Odinga must also commit to ensuring that religion and religious courts are omitted from the new constitution. That is the pact they must sign with the NO campaign if a YES vote is to sail through without question. No religion, especially fundamentalist Islam, should enjoy the privileges of my hard-earned taxes to propagate religious activities that may disintegrate into such treasonable actions as by the Sheikhs.

My vote would easily change to a resounding "NO" unless I am assured by the Constitution that no Sheikh or Buddist monk, Hindu priest or Christian cleric will get away with the absurd audacity of attempting to determine where I watch my Supersport matches, what I drink as I do so; where and what I can smoke or drink in an independent secular KENYA.

No religion should 'get it twisted' on its place in secular Kenya and no loopholes should allow Sheikhs or SUPKEM to get away with such treasonable actions.

Regards, Wainaina

-- Sent from my mobile device

Wainaina Mungai ----- [LINK: http://www.bungesms.com] http://www.bungesms.com [LINK: http://www.madeinkenya.org] http://www.madeinkenya.org [LINK: http://www.wainainamungai.com] http://www.wainainamungai.com

Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared. ~ Buddha~

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At the risk of getting OT: I believe the constitution should be based on facts and not beliefs. If Christians have their own belief on abortion, let them handle it at their own expense and effort in the church, and if the Muslims have their own beliefs on Marriage, divorse, etc, let them handle it... This 10 mile strip argument should be laid to rest. I doubt Kenyan Muslims would disassociate themselves with the rest of Kenya and move to the 10 mile strip so that they can practise the 'minor' laws (as we are told) in the new constitution. Current polls show 65%-70% saying Yes. This is not good enough. One important thing stands out in these arguments. Perhaps Kenyans and not our current Constitution need to change. o_O --- On Tue, 4/27/10, Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke> wrote: From: Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Tuesday, April 27, 2010, 9:14 AM Dear Emmanuel, There is a very clear difference between a chief's proclamation - or read, a "Govt - (which is to an extend been set up through popular will)and laws imposed through religious fundamentalism under flimsy excuses. Now, while it's got everything to do with the current constitution ( though I do not have any idea under which chapters these proclamations were meted out, I also believe such moves coming while we are trying to piece together a new one, might be a signal to things to come.Infact,it could mean things could only get worse under the new one. Governance, through popular will is duty-bound to protect the very basic of rights - for all.. Harry -----Original Message----- From: emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke [mailto:emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 7:48 AM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs Did I miss some news? I thought what I happened in North Eastern (Mandera) to be specific was a decree that even the Kenyan chief's proclaim from time to time in "Christian" Kenya. When this happens it affects both Christian and Muslim youth alike. I am bound to be corrected but this is happening not under the new Constitution but the current one and so my question is what has it got to do with the new constitution? What has it got to do with the Kadhi's courts or any of those parts being contested? I really think that as reasonable and kind Christ followers, we must ask ourselves, what's Christ do? Regards, Emmanuel PS: The views expressed here are my own..

  -------Original Message-------   From: Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke>   To: emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke   Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>   Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs   Sent: Apr 26 '10 22:26     You mean, there is something called Sharia law, in this  country...???     Last time I checked, it's the kind of law applied and dictated  by  fundamentalists  upon hapless citizenry, with no regard  whatsoever for the very basic of  basic  human rights..     So, who is fooling who..?  Next thing, internet will be  outlawed in that  section  of the nation. Who knows where next. And this is at a time we  working to  open up space and bridge the national divide. Time to smell  coffee...     Harry       --------------------   FROM:  kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke   [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] ON  BEHALF OF S.Murigi Muraya   SENT: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:09  AM   TO: harry@comtelsys.co.ke   CC: KICTAnet ICT Policy  Discussions   SUBJECT: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the  Sheikhs       Please note Article 24 Subsection 4 of our soon to be new  constitution  limits how the Bill of Rights may apply to the one religion the  Kenyan  state is funding with the approval of Kenyans who vote YES!     Of  course the Kenyan media is too busy slandering Churches to point this  out.       On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Wainaina Mungai <[LINK:   mailto:wainaina@madeinkenya.org] wainaina@madeinkenya.org>  wrote:   The recent move by Muslim Sheikhs to enforce Sharia Law,   outlaw DSTV,   video dens & related activities in Mandera could not have   come at a   more unfortunate time. The support they have received from   SUPREM   (Supreme Council of Kenya Muslims) further complicates the debate   on   the "continued" inclusion of Kadhi Courts in our   Constitution.     Now that the SUPKEM has proved to support such apparent   'treason' in   my secular nation,  President Kibaki and Prime Minister   Odinga must   also commit to ensuring that religion and religious courts are   omitted   from the new constitution. That is the pact they must sign with the   NO   campaign if a YES vote is to sail through without question.   No   religion, especially fundamentalist Islam, should enjoy the   privileges   of my hard-earned taxes to propagate religious activities that   may   disintegrate into such treasonable actions as by the Sheikhs.     My   vote would easily change to a resounding "NO" unless I am assured   by the   Constitution that no Sheikh or Buddist monk, Hindu priest or   Christian   cleric will get away with the absurd audacity of attempting   to determine   where I watch my Supersport matches, what I drink as I do   so; where and   what I can smoke or drink in an independent secular   KENYA.     No   religion should 'get it twisted' on its place in secular Kenya and   no   loopholes should allow Sheikhs or SUPKEM to get away with such   treasonable   actions.     Regards,   Wainaina     --   Sent from my mobile   device     Wainaina Mungai   -----   [LINK: http://www.bungesms.com] http://www.bungesms.com   [LINK: http://www.madeinkenya.org] http://www.madeinkenya.org   [LINK: http://www.wainainamungai.com] http://www.wainainamungai.com     Thousands of candles   can be lighted from a single candle, and the life   of the candle will not be   shortened. Happiness never decreases by   being shared. ~   Buddha~     _______________________________________________   kictanet   mailing list   [LINK: mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke] kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke   [LINK: http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet]   http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet     This   message was sent to: [LINK: mailto:murigi.muraya@gmail.com]   murigi.muraya@gmail.com   Unsubscribe   or change your options at [LINK:   http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/murigi.muraya%40g mail.com]  http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/murigi.muraya%40g mail.com       --------------------   _______________________________________________   kictanet mailing list   [LINK: compose.php?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke]   kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke   [LINK: http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet]   http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet     This message was sent to: [LINK:   compose.php?to=emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke] emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke  Unsubscribe or change your options at [LINK:   http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emmanuel.khisa%40 kadet.co.ke] 

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I think the concern is if Supkem can propose a 'ban' on DSTv, then it might also happen for internet services (banning websites, ...) and it becomes an ICT issue. The confusion of religious stuff being included in the new (and current) constitutions further creates more confusion and founded/un-founded fears. And that brings in the constitution arguments because the mechanisms to deal with these issues (as you rightfully said) are in the law.   --- On Tue, 4/27/10, Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote: From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs To: "wesley kirinya" <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Tuesday, April 27, 2010, 9:37 AM Good morning all, I don't really see how this is related to the content of the proposed constitution (and I think there are mechanisms to deal with such an attempted ban on TV watching in the current constitution). More importantly, it's not really an ICT issue, no? Have a lovely day, Andrea On 27 April 2010 09:30, wesley kirinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> wrote: At the risk of getting OT: I believe the constitution should be based on facts and not beliefs. If Christians have their own belief on abortion, let them handle it at their own expense and effort in the church, and if the Muslims have their own beliefs on Marriage, divorse, etc, let them handle it... This 10 mile strip argument should be laid to rest. I doubt Kenyan Muslims would disassociate themselves with the rest of Kenya and move to the 10 mile strip so that they can practise the 'minor' laws (as we are told) in the new constitution. Current polls show 65%-70% saying Yes. This is not good enough. One important thing stands out in these arguments. Perhaps Kenyans and not our current Constitution need to change. o_O --- On Tue, 4/27/10, Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke> wrote: From: Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Tuesday, April 27, 2010, 9:14 AM Dear Emmanuel, There is a very clear difference between a chief's proclamation - or read, a "Govt - (which is to an extend been set up through popular will)and laws imposed through religious fundamentalism under flimsy excuses. Now, while it's got everything to do with the current constitution ( though I do not have any idea under which chapters these proclamations were meted out, I also believe such moves coming while we are trying to piece together a new one, might be a signal to things to come.Infact,it could mean things could only get worse under the new one. Governance, through popular will is duty-bound to protect the very basic of rights - for all.. Harry -----Original Message----- From: emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke [mailto:emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 7:48 AM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs Did I miss some news? I thought what I happened in North Eastern (Mandera) to be specific was a decree that even the Kenyan chief's proclaim from time to time in "Christian" Kenya. When this happens it affects both Christian and Muslim youth alike. I am bound to be corrected but this is happening not under the new Constitution but the current one and so my question is what has it got to do with the new constitution? What has it got to do with the Kadhi's courts or any of those parts being contested? I really think that as reasonable and kind Christ followers, we must ask ourselves, what's Christ do? Regards, Emmanuel PS: The views expressed here are my own..

  -------Original Message-------   From: Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke>   To: emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke

  Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>   Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs

  Sent: Apr 26 '10 22:26     You mean, there is something called Sharia law, in this  country...???     Last time I checked, it's the kind of law applied and dictated  by  fundamentalists  upon hapless citizenry, with no regard  whatsoever

for the very basic of  basic  human rights..     So, who is fooling who..?  Next thing, internet will be  outlawed in that  section  of the nation. Who knows where next. And this is at a time we  working to  open up space and bridge the national divide.

Time to smell  coffee...     Harry      

  FROM:  kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke   [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke]

ON  BEHALF OF S.Murigi Muraya   SENT: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:09  AM   TO: harry@comtelsys.co.ke   CC: KICTAnet ICT Policy  Discussions

  SUBJECT: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the  Sheikhs       Please note Article 24 Subsection 4 of our soon to be new  constitution  limits how the Bill of Rights may apply to the one religion the  Kenyan  state is funding with the approval of Kenyans who vote YES!     Of  course the Kenyan media is too busy slandering Churches to point this  out.  

    On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Wainaina Mungai <[LINK:   mailto:wainaina@madeinkenya.org] wainaina@madeinkenya.org>  wrote:

  The recent move by Muslim Sheikhs to enforce Sharia Law,   outlaw DSTV,   video dens & related activities in Mandera could not have   come at a   more unfortunate time. The support they have received from   SUPREM

  (Supreme Council of Kenya Muslims) further complicates the debate   on   the "continued" inclusion of Kadhi Courts in our   Constitution.     Now that the SUPKEM has proved to support such apparent   'treason' in

  my secular nation,  President Kibaki and Prime Minister   Odinga must   also commit to ensuring that religion and religious courts are   omitted   from the new constitution. That is the pact they must sign with the   NO

  campaign if a YES vote is to sail through without question.   No   religion, especially fundamentalist Islam, should enjoy the   privileges   of my hard-earned taxes to propagate religious activities that   may

  disintegrate into such treasonable actions as by the Sheikhs.  

  My   vote would easily change to a resounding "NO" unless I am assured   by the   Constitution that no Sheikh or Buddist monk, Hindu priest or   Christian   cleric will get away with the absurd audacity of attempting

  to determine   where I watch my Supersport matches, what I drink as I do   so; where and   what I can smoke or drink in an independent secular   KENYA.     No   religion should 'get it twisted' on its place in secular Kenya and

  no   loopholes should allow Sheikhs or SUPKEM to get away with such   treasonable   actions.     Regards,   Wainaina     --   Sent from my mobile   device  

  Wainaina Mungai   -----   [LINK: http://www.bungesms.com] http://www.bungesms.com   [LINK: http://www.madeinkenya.org] http://www.madeinkenya.org

  [LINK: http://www.wainainamungai.com] http://www.wainainamungai.com     Thousands of candles   can be lighted from a single candle, and the life

  of the candle will not be   shortened. Happiness never decreases by   being shared. ~   Buddha~     _______________________________________________   kictanet   mailing list   [LINK: mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke] kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke

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http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emmanuel.khisa%40kadet. co.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kiriinya2000%40yahoo.co... _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/andrea.bohnstedt%40rati... -- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com

The debate is not about Christians vs. Muslims. This is about one religion having the Constitution (Bill of Rights & other sections) varied in their favour and at the expense (taxes) of a secular taxpaying society. The freedoms/right to information, assembly etc seem to be at risk if leadership of one religious continues to get away with misleading "minority" argument. ICTs are one from for information that has began to be slaps with edicts and decrees that have no place in a secular state. SUPKEM have gone ahead to support this criminal conduct. This should be a battele between our secular State versus an errant group of Muslim leaders. WM (These are personal views, not representative of positions held by organisations with which I may be affilliated.) On 4/27/10, Samuel Gichuru <gichuru@gmail.com> wrote:

Andrea, I stand corrected but I think the Ban of DSTV is definitely an ICT issue more than it is a constitution issue...

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt < andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote:

...

Good morning all,

I don't really see how this is related to the content of the proposed constitution (and I think there are mechanisms to deal with such an attempted ban on TV watching in the current constitution).

More importantly, it's not really an ICT issue, no?

Have a lovely day, Andrea

On 27 April 2010 09:30, wesley kirinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

At the risk of getting OT:

I believe the constitution should be based on facts and not beliefs. If Christians have their own belief on abortion, let them handle it at their own expense and effort in the church, and if the Muslims have their own beliefs on Marriage, divorse, etc, let them handle it...

This 10 mile strip argument should be laid to rest. I doubt Kenyan Muslims would disassociate themselves with the rest of Kenya and move to the 10 mile strip so that they can practise the 'minor' laws (as we are told) in the new constitution.

Current polls show 65%-70% saying Yes. This is not good enough.

One important thing stands out in these arguments. Perhaps Kenyans and not our current Constitution need to change.

o_O

--- On *Tue, 4/27/10, Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke>* wrote:

From: Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com

Cc: "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Tuesday, April 27, 2010, 9:14 AM

Dear Emmanuel,

There is a very clear difference between a chief's proclamation - or read, a "Govt - (which is to an extend been set up through popular will)and laws imposed through religious fundamentalism under flimsy excuses.

Now, while it's got everything to do with the current constitution ( though I do not have any idea under which chapters these proclamations were meted out, I also believe such moves coming while we are trying to piece together a new one, might be a signal to things to come.Infact,it could mean things could only get worse under the new one.

Governance, through popular will is duty-bound to protect the very basic of rights - for all..

Harry

-----Original Message----- From: emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke<http://mc/compose?to=emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke>[mailto: emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke<http://mc/compose?to=emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke>]

Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 7:48 AM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=harry@comtelsys.co.ke> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs

Did I miss some news?

I thought what I happened in North Eastern (Mandera) to be specific was a decree that even the Kenyan chief's proclaim from time to time in "Christian" Kenya. When this happens it affects both Christian and Muslim youth alike.

I am bound to be corrected but this is happening not under the new Constitution but the current one and so my question is what has it got to do with the new constitution? What has it got to do with the Kadhi's courts or any of those parts being contested?

I really think that as reasonable and kind Christ followers, we must ask ourselves, what's Christ do?

Regards,

Emmanuel PS: The views expressed here are my own..

...

-------Original Message------- From: Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke<http://mc/compose?to=harry@comtelsys.co.ke>

To: emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke<http://mc/compose?to=emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>

Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs Sent: Apr 26 '10 22:26

You mean, there is something called Sharia law, in this country...???

Last time I checked, it's the kind of law applied and dictated by fundamentalists upon hapless citizenry, with no regard whatsoever for the very basic of basic human rights..

So, who is fooling who..? Next thing, internet will be outlawed in that section of the nation. Who knows where next. And this is at a time we working to open up space and bridge the national divide. Time to smell coffee...

Harry

-------------------- FROM: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry <kictanet-bounces%2Bharry>= comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke>]

...

ON BEHALF OF S.Murigi Muraya SENT: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:09 AM TO: harry@comtelsys.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=harry@comtelsys.co.ke> CC: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions SUBJECT: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs

Please note Article 24 Subsection 4 of our soon to be new constitution limits how the Bill of Rights may apply to the one religion the Kenyan state is funding with the approval of Kenyans who vote YES!

Of course the Kenyan media is too busy slandering Churches to point this out.

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Wainaina Mungai <[LINK:

mailto:wainaina@madeinkenya.org<http://mc/compose?to=wainaina@madeinkenya.org>] wainaina@madeinkenya.org <http://mc/compose?to=wainaina@madeinkenya.org>> wrote: The recent move by Muslim Sheikhs to enforce Sharia Law, outlaw DSTV, video dens & related activities in Mandera could not have come at a more unfortunate time. The support they have received from SUPREM (Supreme Council of Kenya Muslims) further complicates the debate on the "continued" inclusion of Kadhi Courts in our Constitution.

Now that the SUPKEM has proved to support such apparent 'treason' in my secular nation, President Kibaki and Prime Minister Odinga must also commit to ensuring that religion and religious courts are omitted from the new constitution. That is the pact they must sign with the NO campaign if a YES vote is to sail through without question. No religion, especially fundamentalist Islam, should enjoy the privileges of my hard-earned taxes to propagate religious activities that may disintegrate into such treasonable actions as by the Sheikhs.

My vote would easily change to a resounding "NO" unless I am assured by the Constitution that no Sheikh or Buddist monk, Hindu priest or Christian cleric will get away with the absurd audacity of attempting to determine where I watch my Supersport matches, what I drink as I do so; where and what I can smoke or drink in an independent secular KENYA.

No religion should 'get it twisted' on its place in secular Kenya and no loopholes should allow Sheikhs or SUPKEM to get away with such treasonable actions.

Regards, Wainaina

-- Sent from my mobile device

Wainaina Mungai ----- [LINK: http://www.bungesms.com] http://www.bungesms.com [LINK: http://www.madeinkenya.org] http://www.madeinkenya.org [LINK: http://www.wainainamungai.com] http://www.wainainamungai.com

Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared. ~ Buddha~

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-- Sent from my mobile device Wainaina Mungai ----- http://www.bungesms.com http://www.madeinkenya.org http://www.wainainamungai.com Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared. ~ Buddha~

Thanks Kirinya for this insightful thought!  However as human beings the change we expect from them may be too much if they are left unguided. Remember, when one does something against the law it is not that the person does not know that the act is not acceptable .... they go ahead and do it .... Some, because of the fear that the law of the land will be on their case shy away..... My opinion is a two fold approach; Kenyans need to be sensitized to change and that the constitution should also present a change...the change we need. Regards,  Okech JMMy blog --- On Mon, 4/26/10, wesley kirinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> wrote: From: wesley kirinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs To: okechjr@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 11:30 PM At the risk of getting OT: I believe the constitution should be based on facts and not beliefs. If Christians have their own belief on abortion, let them handle it at their own expense and effort in the church, and if the Muslims have their own beliefs on Marriage, divorse, etc, let them handle it... This 10 mile strip argument should be laid to rest. I doubt Kenyan Muslims would disassociate themselves with the rest of Kenya and move to the 10 mile strip so that they can practise the 'minor' laws (as we are told) in the new constitution. Current polls show 65%-70% saying Yes. This is not good enough. One important thing stands out in these arguments. Perhaps Kenyans and not our current Constitution need to change. o_O --- On Tue, 4/27/10, Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke> wrote: From: Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Cc: "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Tuesday, April 27, 2010, 9:14 AM Dear Emmanuel, There is a very clear difference between a chief's proclamation - or read, a "Govt - (which is to an extend been set up through popular will)and laws imposed through religious fundamentalism under flimsy excuses. Now, while it's got everything to do with the current constitution ( though I do not have any idea under which chapters these proclamations were meted out, I also believe such moves coming while we are trying to piece together a new one, might be a signal to things to come.Infact,it could mean things could only get worse under the new one. Governance, through popular will is duty-bound to protect the very basic of rights - for all.. Harry -----Original Message----- From: emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke [mailto:emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 7:48 AM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs Did I miss some news? I thought what I happened in North Eastern (Mandera) to be specific was a decree that even the Kenyan chief's proclaim from time to time in "Christian" Kenya. When this happens it affects both Christian and Muslim youth alike. I am bound to be corrected but this is happening not under the new Constitution but the current one and so my question is what has it got to do with the new constitution? What has it got to do with the Kadhi's courts or any of those parts being contested? I really think that as reasonable and kind Christ followers, we must ask ourselves, what's Christ do? Regards, Emmanuel PS: The views expressed here are my own..

  -------Original Message-------   From: Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke>   To: emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke   Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>   Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs   Sent: Apr 26 '10 22:26     You mean, there is something called Sharia law, in this  country...???     Last time I checked, it's the kind of law applied and dictated  by  fundamentalists  upon hapless citizenry, with no regard  whatsoever for the very basic of  basic  human rights..     So, who is fooling who..?  Next thing, internet will be  outlawed in that  section  of the nation. Who knows where next. And this is at a time we  working to  open up space and bridge the national divide. Time to smell  coffee...     Harry      

  FROM:  kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke   [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] ON  BEHALF OF S.Murigi Muraya   SENT: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:09  AM   TO: harry@comtelsys.co.ke   CC: KICTAnet ICT Policy  Discussions   SUBJECT: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the  Sheikhs       Please note Article 24 Subsection 4 of our soon to be new  constitution  limits how the Bill of Rights may apply to the one religion the  Kenyan  state is funding with the approval of Kenyans who vote YES!     Of  course the Kenyan media is too busy slandering Churches to point this  out.       On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Wainaina Mungai <[LINK:   mailto:wainaina@madeinkenya.org] wainaina@madeinkenya.org>  wrote:   The recent move by Muslim Sheikhs to enforce Sharia Law,   outlaw DSTV,   video dens & related activities in Mandera could not have   come at a   more unfortunate time. The support they have received from   SUPREM   (Supreme Council of Kenya Muslims) further complicates the debate   on   the "continued" inclusion of Kadhi Courts in our   Constitution.     Now that the SUPKEM has proved to support such apparent   'treason' in   my secular nation,  President Kibaki and Prime Minister   Odinga must   also commit to ensuring that religion and religious courts are   omitted   from the new constitution. That is the pact they must sign with the   NO   campaign if a YES vote is to sail through without question.   No   religion, especially fundamentalist Islam, should enjoy the   privileges   of my hard-earned taxes to propagate religious activities that   may   disintegrate into such treasonable actions as by the Sheikhs.  

  My   vote would easily change to a resounding "NO" unless I am assured   by the   Constitution that no Sheikh or Buddist monk, Hindu priest or   Christian   cleric will get away with the absurd audacity of attempting   to determine   where I watch my Supersport matches, what I drink as I do   so; where and   what I can smoke or drink in an independent secular   KENYA.     No   religion should 'get it twisted' on its place in secular Kenya and   no   loopholes should allow Sheikhs or SUPKEM to get away with such   treasonable   actions.     Regards,   Wainaina     --   Sent from my mobile   device     Wainaina Mungai   -----   [LINK: http://www.bungesms.com] http://www.bungesms.com   [LINK: http://www.madeinkenya.org] http://www.madeinkenya.org   [LINK: http://www.wainainamungai.com] http://www.wainainamungai.com     Thousands of candles   can be lighted from a single candle, and the life   of the candle will not be   shortened. Happiness never decreases by   being shared. ~   Buddha~     _______________________________________________   kictanet   mailing list   [LINK: mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke] kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke   [LINK: http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet]   http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet     This   message was sent to: [LINK: mailto:murigi.muraya@gmail.com]   murigi.muraya@gmail.com   Unsubscribe   or change your options at [LINK:   http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/murigi.muraya%40g mail.com]  http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/murigi.muraya%40g mail.com       --------------------   _______________________________________________   kictanet mailing list   [LINK: compose.php?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke]   kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke   [LINK: http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet]   http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet     This message was sent to: [LINK:   compose.php?to=emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke] emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke  Unsubscribe or change your options at [LINK:   http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emmanuel.khisa%40 kadet.co.ke] 

http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emmanuel.khisa%40kadet. co.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kiriinya2000%40yahoo.co... -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: okechjr@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/okechjr%40yahoo.com

Have you read Article 24 subsection 4 of our soon to be new constitution or are you one of the 90% of Kenyans who has not read the draft for themselves? What does it say before anyone comments that SUPKEM is not within their special rights in the coming constitution? Why slander SUPKEM after it ensured the CoE & parliament entrenched & enlarged their faith in the draft constitution? The document is religious genius by SUPKEM. Superstition (believing you know what is in the draft before reading it) does not equal knowledge. On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Okech <okechjr@yahoo.com> wrote:

Emmanuel, I guess you are right, we are not yet under the new constitution. The constitution we want to oust support this barbaric act and it looks like it does not support right to information. we must for sure kick this old constitution out.

Regards, Okech JM My blog <http://james-okech.blogspot.com>

--- On *Mon, 4/26/10, emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke < emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke>* wrote:

From: emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke <emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke>

Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs To: okechjr@yahoo.com

Cc: "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 9:48 PM

Did I miss some news?

I thought what I happened in North Eastern (Mandera) to be specific was a decree that even the Kenyan chief's proclaim from time to time in "Christian" Kenya. When this happens it affects both Christian and Muslim youth alike.

I am bound to be corrected but this is happening not under the new Constitution but the current one and so my question is what has it got to do with the new constitution? What has it got to do with the Kadhi's courts or any of those parts being contested?

I really think that as reasonable and kind Christ followers, we must ask ourselves, what's Christ do?

Regards,

Emmanuel PS: The views expressed here are my own..

...

-------Original Message------- From: Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke<http://mc/compose?to=harry@comtelsys.co.ke>

To: emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke<http://mc/compose?to=emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>

Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs Sent: Apr 26 '10 22:26

You mean, there is something called Sharia law, in this country...???

Last time I checked, it's the kind of law applied and dictated by fundamentalists upon hapless citizenry, with no regard whatsoever for the very basic of basic human rights..

So, who is fooling who..? Next thing, internet will be outlawed in that section of the nation. Who knows where next. And this is at a time we working to open up space and bridge the national divide. Time to smell coffee...

Harry

-------------------- FROM: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry <kictanet-bounces%2Bharry>= comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke>] ON BEHALF OF S.Murigi Muraya SENT: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:09 AM TO: harry@comtelsys.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=harry@comtelsys.co.ke> CC: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions SUBJECT: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs

Please note Article 24 Subsection 4 of our soon to be new constitution limits how the Bill of Rights may apply to the one religion the Kenyan state is funding with the approval of Kenyans who vote YES!

Of course the Kenyan media is too busy slandering Churches to point this out.

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Wainaina Mungai <[LINK: mailto:wainaina@madeinkenya.org<http://mc/compose?to=wainaina@madeinkenya.org>] wainaina@madeinkenya.org <http://mc/compose?to=wainaina@madeinkenya.org>> wrote: The recent move by Muslim Sheikhs to enforce Sharia Law, outlaw DSTV, video dens & related activities in Mandera could not have come at a more unfortunate time. The support they have received from SUPREM (Supreme Council of Kenya Muslims) further complicates the debate on the "continued" inclusion of Kadhi Courts in our Constitution.

Now that the SUPKEM has proved to support such apparent 'treason' in my secular nation, President Kibaki and Prime Minister Odinga must also commit to ensuring that religion and religious courts are omitted from the new constitution. That is the pact they must sign with the NO campaign if a YES vote is to sail through without question. No religion, especially fundamentalist Islam, should enjoy the privileges of my hard-earned taxes to propagate religious activities that may disintegrate into such treasonable actions as by the Sheikhs.

My vote would easily change to a resounding "NO" unless I am assured by the Constitution that no Sheikh or Buddist monk, Hindu priest or Christian cleric will get away with the absurd audacity of attempting to determine where I watch my Supersport matches, what I drink as I do so; where and what I can smoke or drink in an independent secular KENYA.

No religion should 'get it twisted' on its place in secular Kenya and no loopholes should allow Sheikhs or SUPKEM to get away with such treasonable actions.

Regards, Wainaina

-- Sent from my mobile device

Wainaina Mungai ----- [LINK: http://www.bungesms.com] http://www.bungesms.com [LINK: http://www.madeinkenya.org] http://www.madeinkenya.org [LINK: http://www.wainainamungai.com] http://www.wainainamungai.com

Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared. ~ Buddha~

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Just one more: 1. The replacement of the "current constitution" with the "draft constitution" does not solve the problem. ....let us entrench principles that are universal and do not favour one religion or tribe or gender etc. 2. Then ofcourse we have the abortion issue raised separately. WM On 4/27/10, Okech <okechjr@yahoo.com> wrote:

Emmanuel, You win my support here! We are not yet under the new constitution and that is why we are complaining. The constitution we want to oust supports this barbaric act of dictatorship and religious censorship if what I heard is something to go by. It may not be a bad idea but if it does deny citizens the right to information then something is definitely wrong. We are sick of such a tendency and thus we must join hands to kick this old constitution.

Regards,  Okech JMMy blog

--- On Mon, 4/26/10, emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke <emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke> wrote:

From: emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke <emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs To: okechjr@yahoo.com Cc: "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 9:48 PM

Did I miss some news?

I thought what I happened in North Eastern (Mandera) to be specific was a decree that even the Kenyan chief's proclaim from time to time in "Christian" Kenya. When this happens it affects both Christian and Muslim youth alike.

I am bound to be corrected but this is happening not under the new Constitution but the current one and so my question is what has it got to do with the new constitution? What has it got to do with the Kadhi's courts or any of those parts being contested?

I really think that as reasonable and kind Christ followers, we must ask ourselves, what's Christ do?

Regards,

Emmanuel PS: The views expressed here are my own..

...

  -------Original Message-------   From: Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke>   To: emmanuel.khisa@kadet.co.ke   Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>   Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs   Sent: Apr 26 '10 22:26

  You mean, there is something called Sharia law, in this  country...???

  Last time I checked, it's the kind of law applied and dictated  by   fundamentalists   upon hapless citizenry, with no regard  whatsoever for the very basic of   basic   human rights..

  So, who is fooling who..?  Next thing, internet will be  outlawed in that   section   of the nation. Who knows where next. And this is at a time we  working to   open up space and bridge the national divide. Time to smell  coffee...

  Harry

  --------------------   FROM:  kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke   [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] ON   BEHALF OF S.Murigi Muraya   SENT: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:09  AM   TO: harry@comtelsys.co.ke   CC: KICTAnet ICT Policy  Discussions   SUBJECT: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the  Sheikhs

  Please note Article 24 Subsection 4 of our soon to be new  constitution   limits how the Bill of Rights may apply to the one religion the  Kenyan   state is funding with the approval of Kenyans who vote YES!

  Of  course the Kenyan media is too busy slandering Churches to point this   out.

  On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Wainaina Mungai <[LINK:   mailto:wainaina@madeinkenya.org] wainaina@madeinkenya.org>  wrote:   The recent move by Muslim Sheikhs to enforce Sharia Law,   outlaw DSTV,   video dens & related activities in Mandera could not have   come at a   more unfortunate time. The support they have received from   SUPREM   (Supreme Council of Kenya Muslims) further complicates the debate   on   the "continued" inclusion of Kadhi Courts in our   Constitution.

  Now that the SUPKEM has proved to support such apparent   'treason' in   my secular nation,  President Kibaki and Prime Minister   Odinga must   also commit to ensuring that religion and religious courts are   omitted   from the new constitution. That is the pact they must sign with the   NO   campaign if a YES vote is to sail through without question.   No   religion, especially fundamentalist Islam, should enjoy the   privileges   of my hard-earned taxes to propagate religious activities that   may   disintegrate into such treasonable actions as by the Sheikhs.

  My   vote would easily change to a resounding "NO" unless I am assured   by the   Constitution that no Sheikh or Buddist monk, Hindu priest or   Christian   cleric will get away with the absurd audacity of attempting   to determine   where I watch my Supersport matches, what I drink as I do   so; where and   what I can smoke or drink in an independent secular   KENYA.

  No   religion should 'get it twisted' on its place in secular Kenya and   no   loopholes should allow Sheikhs or SUPKEM to get away with such   treasonable   actions.

  Regards,   Wainaina

  --   Sent from my mobile   device

  Wainaina Mungai   -----   [LINK: http://www.bungesms.com] http://www.bungesms.com   [LINK: http://www.madeinkenya.org] http://www.madeinkenya.org   [LINK: http://www.wainainamungai.com] http://www.wainainamungai.com

  Thousands of candles   can be lighted from a single candle, and the life   of the candle will not be   shortened. Happiness never decreases by   being shared. ~   Buddha~

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-- Sent from my mobile device Wainaina Mungai ----- http://www.bungesms.com http://www.madeinkenya.org http://www.wainainamungai.com Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared. ~ Buddha~

Edwin - I am very happy to see your association organizing major activities like this one which moves our country forward. I will certainly circulate the information and I look fwd to the event being a big success. I would have liked to attend as well but I will be on leave between 10th June and 10th July. Kind Regards, Waudo On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 16:26 +0300, "Edwin Onchari" <eonchari@kenyabposociety.or.ke> wrote: Dear listers, The Kenya BPO and Contact Center Society in conjunction with the US- Kenya Chamber of Commerce would like to inform you that there will be a B2B match making even in Washington DC, June 8^th – 10^th , 2010. The objective of this event is to “Introduce Kenya as an ICT hub in the region” to US companies that are looking to move some of their outsourced services from the traditional destinations of India, Malaysia, Philippines, South America, etc. I am therefore requesting those that would be interested in attending this event to get in touch with me as soon as possible so that I can coordinate attendance and matching making sessions . Also, if there are companies that you would like to meet and that are not on this list, kindly send them through so that I have them contacted to attend. The deadline for registration, travel arrangements has been extended to noon, 4^th May, 2010 so treat this with utmost urgency. Please share this information with everyone that would be interested in making an entry into the US market in BPO/KPO, ITES, Software development and Animation, etc Kind regards, Edwin M Onchari CEO- Kenya BPO Society +254-(0)720 755 951 eonchari@kenyabposociety.or.ke www.kenyabposociety.or.ke Blogs: [1]http://kenyabposociety.blogspot.com/2010/01/key-to-unlocking-k enyas-outsourcing.html [2]http://kenyabposociety.blogspot.com/2010/01/discounted-medical -cover-for-industry.html _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: emailsignet@mailcan.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman /options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.com References 1. http://kenyabposociety.blogspot.com/2010/01/key-to-unlocking-kenyas-outsourc... 2. http://kenyabposociety.blogspot.com/2010/01/discounted-medical-cover-for-ind...