Local hosting - reiterated
Hi Listers, Just felt that this is a topic that needs to be kept alive until we get some serious resolutions, it is one thing to scream about local content and another providing the enabling environment. We currently have no reliable application hosting and collection service providers I had thought that with the bashing by Safaricom of the incumbent ISPs they would have gone off to develop other areas, but from what is happening they might also be beaten to this by big green. It is time those claiming to run incubators for developers realise that without reliable and cost effective hosting and collocation facilities the tools they are providing shall remain theoretical. To a web developer hosting space is more critical than office space as their work place is virtual, so providing office space still leaves 60 - 80% of the recurrent project budget going to hosting and collocation. This is one of the times when I think we are justified in calling on KICT Board and the Ministry for Information to help. Today the average cost of collocation for a 2U rack space is US $ 400/- per month and a server costs about US 1,500/- which is the bear minimum for a redundant setup you require at least 6 U space, 2 servers and a firewall/switch. If there is someone out there who can provide the service for less and is connected to KIXP please stand and be counted. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
Developers and Local Hosting providers have for long been involved in the "chicken before the egg" situation where hosting firms say that demand has to increase for prices to come down, they have to justify investment. Developers meanwhile want prices to come down before they host locally, with some of them barely having budgets. At the same time, local hosting firms have to learn to offer world class cutting edge platforms and interfaces to their users if they are going to adopt them. At the same time, it aids when those providing this services go into technical details, like the type of databases offered, supported scripting languages rather than just tell us 2 databases, developers need that information. Rememeber there is tough competition from the likes of Amazon who have a robust cloud infrastructure which is free for low usage ( http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/) As a case study, a local developer has done a popular application , AroundMe (Nokia Ovi store - http://store.ovi.com/content/103911#/content/103911/reviews) which has been downloaded more than 10,000 times and with 30,000 searches. The app uses the Google App Engine (https://appengine.google.com/) cloud platform, also free to a certain usage . To now the app is still operating on the free limit ( http://aroundmenow.appspot.com/).
This says a lot about the governments lip service on vision 2030, the setting up of special economic zones and jua kali sheds is so industrial revolution thinking. With technology the entire country becomes an special economic zone whose only infrastructure requirements are data centres and high speed broadband (wired or otherwise) all of which are much cheaper to install than 4 lane highways and 11,000 kilo volt power sub-stations, or could it be the issue of 10%. Kazi kwa vijani needs to look beyond the standard 8 drop out to the university graduate who already has the skills and is only looking for an enabling environment. Dr. Ndemo, I propose you call your counterpart in the Ministry of Industrialisation and which ever other ministry is involved in the jua kali shed project and insist to be given 1 shed in every constituency then take the cash equivalent and set-up a hosting and collocation centre. All it requires is 1000 square feet of space in your offices (digitise your files and move the physical ones to Kabartonjo). From your offices get at least a 1 gigabit link to KIXP and as you are next to Oranges Telephone House which sits on a node of the Secom marine cable you can tap in for the international bandwidth. The other link you require is to KeNET (http://www.kenet.or.ke), the education network hub, which I believe is currently asleep so that the location can be accessed across all universities. This is critical as we know what happened when the developers of google and facebook went through when trying to host within their campuses. If you leave the issue of hosting and collocation to market forces and private enterprise then our young developers and doomed to languish in poverty like our great artists. This is the 1968 of technology time to setup an ICDC and KNTC type entities for the technology industry which you can then float like safaricom and kenya power after the market has matured. From where I sit not even Safaricom or Airtel have the resources or willpower to salvage this situation. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tue, 29 March, 2011 17:57:58 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Local hosting - reiterated Developers and Local Hosting providers have for long been involved in the "chicken before the egg" situation where hosting firms say that demand has to increase for prices to come down, they have to justify investment. Developers meanwhile want prices to come down before they host locally, with some of them barely having budgets. At the same time, local hosting firms have to learn to offer world class cutting edge platforms and interfaces to their users if they are going to adopt them. At the same time, it aids when those providing this services go into technical details, like the type of databases offered, supported scripting languages rather than just tell us 2 databases, developers need that information. Rememeber there is tough competition from the likes of Amazon who have a robust cloud infrastructure which is free for low usage (http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/) As a case study, a local developer has done a popular application , AroundMe (Nokia Ovi store - http://store.ovi.com/content/103911#/content/103911/reviews) which has been downloaded more than 10,000 times and with 30,000 searches. The app uses the Google App Engine (https://appengine.google.com/) cloud platform, also free to a certain usage . To now the app is still operating on the free limit (http://aroundmenow.appspot.com/).
I concur Robert The great revolutions that the world is gone through especially US and China were not done by entrepreneurs but by those governments - as is well documented Google from USC, Mozlla, IE, Netscape came from University of Illinois and Facebook Harvard. All these very successful technology products are partly owned by the US Fed Govt through the Universities So I concur with Robert that we pray Dr Ndemo uses his good office to kickstart the data center revolution. Manthi On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 11:54 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
This says a lot about the governments lip service on vision 2030, the setting up of special economic zones and jua kali sheds is so industrial revolution thinking.
With technology the entire country becomes an special economic zone whose only infrastructure requirements are data centres and high speed broadband (wired or otherwise) all of which are much cheaper to install than 4 lane highways and 11,000 kilo volt power sub-stations, or could it be the issue of 10%.
Kazi kwa vijani needs to look beyond the standard 8 drop out to the university graduate who already has the skills and is only looking for an enabling environment.
Dr. Ndemo, I propose you call your counterpart in the Ministry of Industrialisation and which ever other ministry is involved in the jua kali shed project and insist to be given 1 shed in every constituency then take the cash equivalent and set-up a hosting and collocation centre.
All it requires is 1000 square feet of space in your offices (digitise your files and move the physical ones to Kabartonjo). From your offices get at least a 1 gigabit link to KIXP and as you are next to Oranges Telephone House which sits on a node of the Secom marine cable you can tap in for the international bandwidth.
The other link you require is to KeNET (http://www.kenet.or.ke), the education network hub, which I believe is currently asleep so that the location can be accessed across all universities. This is critical as we know what happened when the developers of google and facebook went through when trying to host within their campuses.
If you leave the issue of hosting and collocation to market forces and private enterprise then our young developers and doomed to languish in poverty like our great artists. This is the 1968 of technology time to setup an ICDC and KNTC type entities for the technology industry which you can then float like safaricom and kenya power after the market has matured.
From where I sit not even Safaricom or Airtel have the resources or willpower to salvage this situation.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
------------------------------ *From:* Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tue, 29 March, 2011 17:57:58 *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Local hosting - reiterated
Developers and Local Hosting providers have for long been involved in the "chicken before the egg" situation where hosting firms say that demand has to increase for prices to come down, they have to justify investment. Developers meanwhile want prices to come down before they host locally, with some of them barely having budgets.
At the same time, local hosting firms have to learn to offer world class cutting edge platforms and interfaces to their users if they are going to adopt them.
At the same time, it aids when those providing this services go into technical details, like the type of databases offered, supported scripting languages rather than just tell us 2 databases, developers need that information.
Rememeber there is tough competition from the likes of Amazon who have a robust cloud infrastructure which is free for low usage ( http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/)
As a case study, a local developer has done a popular application , AroundMe (Nokia Ovi store - http://store.ovi.com/content/103911#/content/103911/reviews) which has been downloaded more than 10,000 times and with 30,000 searches. The app uses the Google App Engine (https://appengine.google.com/) cloud platform, also free to a certain usage . To now the app is still operating on the free limit (http://aroundmenow.appspot.com/).
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On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
I concur Robert
The great revolutions that the world is gone through especially US and China were not done by entrepreneurs but by those governments
??? Please explain this.
- as is well documented Google from USC,
Two Stanford boys I think
Mozlla, IE, Netscape came from University of Illinois and Facebook Harvard. All these very successful technology products are partly owned by the US Fed Govt through the Universities
Harvard and Stanford are private Uni's not at all owned by the US gov. University of Illinois is a state institution (the State of Illinois) NOT the US fed gov't. Mozilla is not so sucesful these days, and is BTW a non-profit org. -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
McTim Just to clarify. All education funding for student scholarship is a federal funding including all activities in private colleges. I am not sure about facebook but google and netscape were funded with Federal govt funds and the law governing such things are very clear. Anywork undertaken in the universities in the US and patents issued, those patent are owned by the university, the source of the grant (in this case the fed) and the scientist, But without belaboring the point, I would like to clarify the following, if it was not for the US fed government you and I and our good friend Robert would not be besieching Dr Ndemo to use the power vested in him and solve the apparent problem of local hosting Manthi On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 12:52 AM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
I concur Robert
The great revolutions that the world is gone through especially US and China were not done by entrepreneurs but by those governments
??? Please explain this.
- as is well documented Google from USC,
Two Stanford boys I think
Mozlla, IE, Netscape came from University of Illinois and Facebook Harvard. All these very successful technology products are partly owned by the US Fed Govt through the Universities
Harvard and Stanford are private Uni's not at all owned by the US gov. University of Illinois is a state institution (the State of Illinois) NOT the US fed gov't. Mozilla is not so sucesful these days, and is BTW a non-profit org.
-- Cheers,
McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
McTim Just to clarify. All education funding for student scholarship is a federal funding including all activities in private colleges.
That is not at all the case. While many loans and scholarships schemes are made available by the USG, it is nowehre near 100%.
I am not sure about facebook but google and netscape were funded with Federal govt funds
Can you supply some facts to back this up? If both Google and FB, which are worth Billions of USD were developed using USG funds, don't you think we would have heard that the USG is claiming an ownership stake? There would be well publicized lawsuits at a minimum!
and the law governing such things are very clear. Anywork undertaken in the universities in the US and patents issued, those patent are owned by the university, the source of the grant (in this case the fed) and the scientist,
I've never heard any indications that either Google or FB were developed with US grant monies.
But without belaboring the point, I would like to clarify the following, if it was not for the US fed government you and I and our good friend Robert would not be besieching Dr Ndemo to use the power vested in him and solve the apparent problem of local hosting
I will agree with you there! -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
My final words on this: 1. The first commercially available browser was NCSA Mosaic - Federally funded program invented by students at UoI amongst whom were Marc Andreesen - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Andreesen 2. Marc went on to develop Netscape from publicly available libraries he had previously invented in his UoI days 3. MS came along and requested the same libraries from the Uoi and gotthem and hence the birth of IE 4. The group that worked on Netscape went on to continue their work on Mozilla as public service.nence firefox - http://www.mozilla.org/ Hence the birth of all the major commercial browsers are funded by the Fed. About Google - for those who know these matters - Google was a PhD work out of Standard (not USC as I earlier stated) that was fed funded in the department of Maths in Stanford - a collaboration between an American and a Russian students The US State Department may tout the power of the entrepreneur but every major investment that has produced value for the most masses has been funded by governments in this case The US Fed. And need I also add that the Internet infrastructure has been developed by the same US Fed and handed over to universities to manage, This was historically been for military communications purposes Need I say more To enjoin Robert, I think the Central Government in Kenya has a central role to play in developing the infrastructure necessary for development. Listening to theories coming out of Washington DC(IMF, WB, USG) and closing our eyes to the plight of our people is tantamount to shooting ourselves. On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 1:25 AM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
McTim Just to clarify. All education funding for student scholarship is a federal funding including all activities in private colleges.
That is not at all the case. While many loans and scholarships schemes are made available by the USG, it is nowehre near 100%.
I am not sure about facebook but google and netscape were funded with Federal govt funds
Can you supply some facts to back this up? If both Google and FB, which are worth Billions of USD were developed using USG funds, don't you think we would have heard that the USG is claiming an ownership stake? There would be well publicized lawsuits at a minimum!
and the law governing such things are very clear. Anywork undertaken in the universities in the US and patents issued, those patent are owned by the university, the source of the grant (in this case the fed) and the scientist,
I've never heard any indications that either Google or FB were developed with US grant monies.
But without belaboring the point, I would like to clarify the following, if it was not for the US fed government you and I and our good friend Robert would not be besieching Dr Ndemo to use the power vested in him and solve the apparent problem of local hosting
I will agree with you there! -- Cheers,
McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
participants (4)
-
Dennis Kioko -
Joseph Manthi -
McTim -
robert yawe