Hi, The ISPs have now teamed up and agreed that the cost of "International" Internet access will not be coming down soon because we have less than 2.6% penetration. Dr. Ndemo, this is a slap on you, wield your big stick, or sorry not possible you recently handed it over to Orange. There is only one solution to this issue lets concentrate in developing local content thereby reducing the dependence on the over hyped marine cable. But based on the discussions on the commodity exchange system this will be an up hill task as we question the credibility of everyone he tries to setup a local online application or service. I read an article on how Hon. Kilonzo is planning to setup green houses in all the schools in his constituency while the others are trying to provide computers to children who are not able to get a balanced diet. Again I repeat "I am ashamed to be a member of the ICT fraternity" but like was once said by a disgruntled KANU memebrr "I shall remain the opposition within" Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
But isn’t the 2.6% penetration their own making? Edwin From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of robert yawe Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:39 AM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Hi, The ISPs have now teamed up and agreed that the cost of "International" Internet access will not be coming down soon because we have less than 2.6% penetration. Dr. Ndemo, this is a slap on you, wield your big stick, or sorry not possible you recently handed it over to Orange. There is only one solution to this issue lets concentrate in developing local content thereby reducing the dependence on the over hyped marine cable. But based on the discussions on the commodity exchange system this will be an up hill task as we question the credibility of everyone he tries to setup a local online application or service. I read an article on how Hon. Kilonzo is planning to setup green houses in all the schools in his constituency while the others are trying to provide computers to children who are not able to get a balanced diet. Again I repeat "I am ashamed to be a member of the ICT fraternity" but like was once said by a disgruntled KANU memebrr "I shall remain the opposition within" Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3152 - Release Date: 09/22/10 06:34:00
Edwin, I also agree with you.100% I beleive that the ISP's arent developing product for the common mwanainchi who want to spend less on Internet. I have been observing the market and there are two potential products that come to my mind. 1. Butterfly from KDN- this is indeed a great idea from KDN but the execution is poor.The internet keeps flactuating, Getting the top up cards is a hustle and further more their charging system isnt that good. 2. loopnet from KDN also a good idea for corporates who want to advertise via this free wifi but the lease period of 3 hrs isn't helping further more there are restriction as to how many people can connect at a time. WAN and MAN area local networks havent been exploited yet. the ISP's need to change their strategy so that they can reach the masses. Advice to them is that they move from the top of the pyramid and focus on the guys with wifi phones or notebooks. rgds, Dennis Kipruto. 0725109106 On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:50 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com>wrote:
But isn’t the 2.6% penetration their own making?
Edwin
*From:* kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke[mailto: kictanet-bounces+eonchari <kictanet-bounces%2Beonchari>=lynxbits.com@ lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *robert yawe *Sent:* Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:39 AM *To:* Edwin *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hi,
The ISPs have now teamed up and agreed that the cost of "International" Internet access will not be coming down soon because we have less than 2.6% penetration.
Dr. Ndemo, this is a slap on you, wield your big stick, or sorry not possible you recently handed it over to Orange.
There is only one solution to this issue lets concentrate in developing local content thereby reducing the dependence on the over hyped marine cable. But based on the discussions on the commodity exchange system this will be an up hill task as we question the credibility of everyone he tries to setup a local online application or service.
I read an article on how Hon. Kilonzo is planning to setup green houses in all the schools in his constituency while the others are trying to provide computers to children who are not able to get a balanced diet.
Again I repeat "I am ashamed to be a member of the ICT fraternity" but like was once said by a disgruntled KANU memebrr "I shall remain the opposition within"
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3152 - Release Date: 09/22/10 06:34:00
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-- Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths
Yes Dennis, Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50.in Kenya, it's anything between $500-$800. If the ISPs lowered these rates and leveraged on the numbers (and be innovative around the last mile issue), they will have more users, and Kenyans being industrious as we always are- will roll out VoIP services, etc So, Dkt. Ndemo, stick to your guns.these rates must come down! Edwin From: dennis kipruto [mailto:rutodenis@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 1:08 AM To: Edwin Onchari Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Edwin, I also agree with you.100% I beleive that the ISP's arent developing product for the common mwanainchi who want to spend less on Internet. I have been observing the market and there are two potential products that come to my mind. 1. Butterfly from KDN- this is indeed a great idea from KDN but the execution is poor.The internet keeps flactuating, Getting the top up cards is a hustle and further more their charging system isnt that good. 2. loopnet from KDN also a good idea for corporates who want to advertise via this free wifi but the lease period of 3 hrs isn't helping further more there are restriction as to how many people can connect at a time. WAN and MAN area local networks havent been exploited yet. the ISP's need to change their strategy so that they can reach the masses. Advice to them is that they move from the top of the pyramid and focus on the guys with wifi phones or notebooks. rgds, Dennis Kipruto. 0725109106 On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:50 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: But isn't the 2.6% penetration their own making? Edwin From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Beonchari> =lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of robert yawe Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:39 AM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Hi, The ISPs have now teamed up and agreed that the cost of "International" Internet access will not be coming down soon because we have less than 2.6% penetration. Dr. Ndemo, this is a slap on you, wield your big stick, or sorry not possible you recently handed it over to Orange. There is only one solution to this issue lets concentrate in developing local content thereby reducing the dependence on the over hyped marine cable. But based on the discussions on the commodity exchange system this will be an up hill task as we question the credibility of everyone he tries to setup a local online application or service. I read an article on how Hon. Kilonzo is planning to setup green houses in all the schools in his constituency while the others are trying to provide computers to children who are not able to get a balanced diet. Again I repeat "I am ashamed to be a member of the ICT fraternity" but like was once said by a disgruntled KANU memebrr "I shall remain the opposition within" Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3152 - Release Date: 09/22/10 06:34:00 _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: rutodenis@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/rutodenis%40gmail.com -- Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3152 - Release Date: 09/22/10 06:34:00
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50.in Kenya, it's anything between $500-$800. If the ISPs lowered these rates and leveraged on the numbers (and be innovative around the last mile issue), they will have more users, and Kenyans being industrious as we always are- will roll out VoIP services, etc
1Mb in Cote d'Ivore is now down to 80 USD. In Senegal, it is about 50.
So, Dkt. Ndemo, stick to your guns.these rates must come down!
Best regards Nnenna Nwakanma | Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG | Consultants Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development Rue des Jardins, Près de Ste Cecile | Tel: 225 27144 | Fax 224 26471 Abidjan, Côte d'Ivoire (+225) | http://www.nnenna.org | nnenna@nnenna.org Your multi-lingual development and event partners across Africa.
ADSL, yes. But the cost for leased circuits in Senegal are much more expensive. Approximately $600/512kbps when I implemented tail end of last year. On Thu, September 23, 2010 3:34 am, Nnenna Nwakanma wrote:
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50.in Kenya, it's anything between $500-$800. If the ISPs lowered these rates and leveraged on the numbers (and be innovative around the last mile issue), they will have more users, and Kenyans being industrious as we always are- will roll out VoIP services, etc
1Mb in Cote d'Ivore is now down to 80 USD. In Senegal, it is about 50.
So, Dkt. Ndemo, stick to your guns.these rates must come down!
Best regards Nnenna Nwakanma | Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG | Consultants Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development Rue des Jardins, Près de Ste Cecile | Tel: 225 27144 | Fax 224 26471 Abidjan, Côte d'Ivoire (+225) | http://www.nnenna.org | nnenna@nnenna.org
Your multi-lingual development and event partners across Africa.
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-- Ben Akoh p: +221-77-638-6477 (Senegal) p: +1204-960-6147 (Canada) e: me@benakoh.com skype: benakoh blog: http://benakoh.com
Hi, On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course. -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS? Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc. The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem. But perhaps I could be wrong.. walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM Hi, On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course. -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
Hello All, Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - ³free internet for all², another first from Kenya. Think about it. Harry On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it¹s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044 Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
Harry, I hate sounding like a Telco/ISP Operator, but if you read my earlier posts, this "Ndemo crack the whip" call is really what needs to be investigated. As I posted earlier, there are multiple, interrelated variables in this "Internet Pricing Model". If a whip must be cracked (and perhaps it should), it must be well measured(how many strokes), informed (what is the expected impact), targeted (who is to be hit, Regulator, Operator, Content Providers, Users?) and timed (at what point/condition do you crack the whip). walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, Harry Hare <harry@africanedevelopment.org> wrote: From: Harry Hare <harry@africanedevelopment.org> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 3:34 PM Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Hello All, Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya. Think about it. Harry On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS? Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc. The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem. But perhaps I could be wrong.. walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM Hi, On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less
than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course. African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044 Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
Hi, The horse might already have bolted the stable. http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Company%20Industry/France%20Telecom%20tar... Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 15:15:08 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-crack the whip? Harry, I hate sounding like a Telco/ISP Operator, but if you read my earlier posts, this "Ndemo crack the whip" call is really what needs to be investigated. As I posted earlier, there are multiple, interrelated variables in this "Internet Pricing Model". If a whip must be cracked (and perhaps it should), it must be well measured(how many strokes), informed (what is the expected impact), targeted (who is to be hit, Regulator, Operator, Content Providers, Users?) and timed (at what point/condition do you crack the whip). walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, Harry Hare <harry@africanedevelopment.org> wrote:
From: Harry Hare <harry@africanedevelopment.org> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 3:34 PM
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
Interesting to see how this plays out in the coming few days Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of robert yawe Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:06 PM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-crack the whip? Hi, The horse might already have bolted the stable. http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Company%20Industry/France%20Telecom%20tar... Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 _____ From: Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 15:15:08 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-crack the whip? Harry, I hate sounding like a Telco/ISP Operator, but if you read my earlier posts, this "Ndemo crack the whip" call is really what needs to be investigated. As I posted earlier, there are multiple, interrelated variables in this "Internet Pricing Model". If a whip must be cracked (and perhaps it should), it must be well measured(how many strokes), informed (what is the expected impact), targeted (who is to be hit, Regulator, Operator, Content Providers, Users?) and timed (at what point/condition do you crack the whip). walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, Harry Hare <harry@africanedevelopment.org> wrote: From: Harry Hare <harry@africanedevelopment.org> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 3:34 PM Hello All, Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya. Think about it. Harry On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS? Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc. The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem. But perhaps I could be wrong.. walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM Hi, On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course. African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044 Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Hello All, Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - "free internet for all", another first from Kenya. Think about it. Harry On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS? Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc. The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem. But perhaps I could be wrong.. walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM Hi, On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50.
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it's anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course. African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044 Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
Hi all, Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans.... It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about? I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results? In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way. Regards, Brian On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com>wrote:
Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
*Sales without Customer Service**........**is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes.* DAVID TOOMA
*From:* kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke[mailto: kictanet-bounces+eonchari <kictanet-bounces%2Beonchari>=lynxbits.com@ lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Harry Hare *Sent:* Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM *To:* Edwin
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On *Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com>* wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com < /mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com<http://mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com>>
wrote: Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
*African eDevelopment Resource Centre *eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
"naomba serikali" or not.government policies ultimately affect demand and supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UK's 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day! Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM To: Edwin Onchari Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Hi all, Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans.... It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about? I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results? In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way. Regards, Brian On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Beonchari> =lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Hello All, Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - "free internet for all", another first from Kenya. Think about it. Harry On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS? Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc. The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem. But perhaps I could be wrong.. walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM Hi, On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com <http://mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50.
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it's anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course. African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044 Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00 _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com -- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds.... Brian On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com>wrote:
“naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand and supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!
Edwin
*Sales without Customer Service**........**is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes.* DAVID TOOMA
*From:* Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] *Sent:* Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM *To:* Edwin Onchari
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hi all,
Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans....
It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about?
I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?
In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
*Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes.* DAVID TOOMA
*From:* kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke[mailto: kictanet-bounces+eonchari <kictanet-bounces%2Beonchari>=lynxbits.com@ lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Harry Hare *Sent:* Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM *To:* Edwin
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On *Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com>* wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com < /mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com<http://mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com>>
wrote: Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
*African eDevelopment Resource Centre *eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
Lowest I know of is Simbanet at $200 (I am their client now), at least 3 of them are at $500 and the rest range from $500-800 (dedicated rates).hence the cry. Now, our Philippines counterparts are in the range of $65-$100 - which is still relatively high. I am in the BPO sector, and I can tell you that this has over the years played to our disadvantage. If only I can get an empty fiber pipe to wherever and buy bandwidth from an international ISP (just wishing). Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 5:22 PM To: Edwin Onchari Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds.... Brian On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: "naomba serikali" or not.government policies ultimately affect demand and supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UK's 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day! Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM To: Edwin Onchari Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Hi all, Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans.... It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about? I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results? In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way. Regards, Brian On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Beonchari> =lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Hello All, Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - "free internet for all", another first from Kenya. Think about it. Harry On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS? Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc. The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem. But perhaps I could be wrong.. walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM Hi, On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com <http://mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50.
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it's anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course. African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044 Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00 _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com -- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00 -- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
Pareto law 80:20 rule when applied to the BPO sector what this means is that 80% of your business needs to be local and 20% foreign. The inverse rule we are using is what makes us uncompetitive, we say power is cheap in Egypt but that is not why their exported products are cheaper but because 80% of their business is local thus covering their overheads the 20% export business is a direct contributor to the bottom line (finance 101). Your solution is not a dark pipe to import more bandwidth but to develop local BPO clients therefore what you will be looking at is local loop connectivity which I am told costs $ 60/- for a 2 MB link from KDN. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:42:28 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Lowest I know of is Simbanet at $200 (I am their client now), at least 3 of them are at $500 and the rest range from $500-800 (dedicated rates)…hence the cry. Now, our Philippines counterparts are in the range of $65-$100 – which is still relatively high. I am in the BPO sector, and I can tell you that this has over the years played to our disadvantage. If only I can get an empty fiber pipe to wherever and buy bandwidth from an international ISP (just wishing). Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA From:Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 5:22 PM To: Edwin Onchari Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds.... Brian On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: “naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand and supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day! Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA From:Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM To: Edwin Onchari Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Hi all, Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans.... It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about? I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results? In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way. Regards, Brian On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA From:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject:Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Hello All, Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya. Think about it. Harry On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS? Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc. The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem. But perhaps I could be wrong.. walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM Hi, On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course. African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044 Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00 _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com -- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00 -- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
Dear lusters, The price of 1MB in Kenya range from Ksh.1,450 to Ksh. 36,000. To realign this kind of range requires consumer power. In a liberalized economy the Government cannot be the one telling you who your vendor should be. In other countries consumers flock on to the cheapest offer forcing the competitors to react. I have seen Kenyans purchase more expensive fuel when they could pay cheaper across the road. Similarly, in broadband Kenyans want the price to be reduced where they started their Internet life. This our uniqueness or peculiarities. Consumers have power and let us use it effectively. Ndemo.
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds....
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com>wrote:
naomba serikali or not government policies ultimately affect demand and supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UKs 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!
Edwin
*Sales without Customer Service**........**is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes.* DAVID TOOMA
*From:* Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] *Sent:* Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM *To:* Edwin Onchari
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hi all,
Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans....
It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about?
I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?
In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
*Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes.* DAVID TOOMA
*From:* kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke[mailto: kictanet-bounces+eonchari <kictanet-bounces%2Beonchari>=lynxbits.com@ lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Harry Hare *Sent:* Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM *To:* Edwin
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - free internet for all, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On *Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com>* wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com < /mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com<http://mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com>>
wrote: Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, its anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
*African eDevelopment Resource Centre *eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
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No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
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Hi, When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a dedicated connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs of 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of satellite. In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be the entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has been said by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds.... Brian On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: “naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand and supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From:Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM To: Edwin Onchari
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hi all,
Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans....
It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about?
I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?
In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way.
Regards,
Brian On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject:Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
Robert Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer Just thinking On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a dedicated connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs of 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of satellite. In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be the entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has been said by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds....
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
“naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand and supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM To: Edwin Onchari
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hi all,
Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans....
It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about?
I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?
In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
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Oooh ... and if you throw in good customer service, this could get even more exciting! On 24 September 2010 09:50, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
Robert
Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer
Just thinking
Hi, When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a dedicated connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs of 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of satellite. In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be
entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has been said by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds....
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
“naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand
and
supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a
full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM To: Edwin Onchari
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hi all,
Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans....
It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about?
I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust
supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?
In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a
full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari <kictanet-bounces%2Beonchari>= lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force
will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project
“free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: the pocket the pocket that like - the
above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
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No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
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Hi, Fine, so long as it is local loop from your office to your collocation centre where you will be providing SaaS solutions. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 9:50:23 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Robert Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer Just thinking On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a dedicated connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs of 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of satellite. In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be the entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has been said by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds....
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
“naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand and supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM To: Edwin Onchari
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hi all,
Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans....
It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about?
I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?
In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: agostal@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/agostal%40gmail.com
no Robert 1MB for 50USD ... to anywhere ... I dont get limitations from my current providers your thoughts ? On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:00 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, Fine, so long as it is local loop from your office to your collocation centre where you will be providing SaaS solutions. Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 9:50:23 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Robert
Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer
Just thinking
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a dedicated connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs of 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of satellite. In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be the entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has been said by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds....
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
“naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand and supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM To: Edwin Onchari
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hi all,
Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans....
It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about?
I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?
In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: agostal@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/agostal%40gmail.com
Hi, Your current ISP charges you $500 for a 1MB link from your location to his edge router, after that it is called best effort especially since most ISPs do not have bandwidth managers. I will take this seriously and do not back down when I come to you to signup. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 10:01:06 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo no Robert 1MB for 50USD ... to anywhere ... I dont get limitations from my current providers your thoughts ? On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:00 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, Fine, so long as it is local loop from your office to your collocation centre where you will be providing SaaS solutions. Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 9:50:23 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Robert
Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer
Just thinking
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a dedicated connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs of 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of satellite. In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be the entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has been said by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds....
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
“naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand and supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM To: Edwin Onchari
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hi all,
Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans....
It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about?
I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?
In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
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No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
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The Internet is a highway (a super one even) that takes us where we want to go. I believe there's a lot of local content online, its just not very meaningful for the vast majority living at the bottom of the pyramid. People who are busy trying to put food on the table won't get on the highway to go to a place called 'Hot or Not.' It's just not meaningful. I agree with Brian, for-profit enterprises have no reason to drop prices unless it becomes necessary for their survival. It will become necessary when the current realities of doing business are modified by say, a drop in demand for the high-cost Internet they are supplying. As long we continue focusing on content such as blog posts, YouTube videos and entertainment applications, only those with disposable income or time will be consuming it. The real fortune for ISPs (like CK Prahalad said) lies at the bottom of the pyramid but until we generate content and applications that make meaning for the masses, we may have to live with a slow drop in prices much longer than we prefer to. Don't expect ISPs to create the content either. They are in the 'transport' business. They are lousy at creating content. Kind regards, *Muchiri* Nyaggah Director @muchiri +254 722 506400 Semacraft.com On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:36 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
Your current ISP charges you $500 for a 1MB link from your location to his edge router, after that it is called best effort especially since most ISPs do not have bandwidth managers.
I will take this seriously and do not back down when I come to you to signup.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
------------------------------ *From:* Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Fri, 24 September, 2010 10:01:06
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
no Robert
1MB for 50USD ... to anywhere ... I dont get limitations from my current providers
your thoughts ?
Hi, Fine, so long as it is local loop from your office to your collocation centre where you will be providing SaaS solutions. Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 9:50:23 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Robert
Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer
Just thinking
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a dedicated connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs of 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of satellite. In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be the entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has been said by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds....
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
“naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand
and
supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM To: Edwin Onchari
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hi all,
Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans....
It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about?
I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?
In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at
mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari <kictanet-bounces%2Beonchari>= lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force
will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:00 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: the that like
- “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at
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-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date:
09/22/10
18:40:00
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: agostal@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at
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This message was sent to: muchiri@semacraft.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/muchiri%40semacraft.com
Hey all, I really dislike the term 'bottom of the pyramid' or 'bottom billion' - I find those expression quite patronising. How about low-income clients or something along those lines? But that's by the by. I actually doubt that the so-called 'bottom billion' has so drastically different interests than the more middle class subscribers. I suspect that email/staying in touch, online dating, music and adult content are just as popular. Being poor doesn't automatically make you a more virtuous person. Look at people who buy changaa: barely any disposable income. And yet they'd still spend it on alcohol. This is the big irony: with internet connectivity, we have a load of information at our fingertips. But few people actually bother looking it up. I see the wildest speculation and conspiracy theories on Facebook that would take to a couple of seconds to clear up with a google search - but people don't do it. I suspect you must have learned how to ask questions, ask the right questions, search for information, figure out how to evaluate information etc. (and yes, I'm generalising here). Another thought: People already create content for the low-income segment - it's just delivered through FM stations rather than the internet. Have a good week, Andrea On 26 September 2010 01:22, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri@semacraft.com> wrote:
The Internet is a highway (a super one even) that takes us where we want to go. I believe there's a lot of local content online, its just not very meaningful for the vast majority living at the bottom of the pyramid. People who are busy trying to put food on the table won't get on the highway to go to a place called 'Hot or Not.' It's just not meaningful. I agree with Brian, for-profit enterprises have no reason to drop prices unless it becomes necessary for their survival. It will become necessary when the current realities of doing business are modified by say, a drop in demand for the high-cost Internet they are supplying.
As long we continue focusing on content such as blog posts, YouTube videos and entertainment applications, only those with disposable income or time will be consuming it. The real fortune for ISPs (like CK Prahalad said) lies at the bottom of the pyramid but until we generate content and applications that make meaning for the masses, we may have to live with a slow drop in prices much longer than we prefer to.
Don't expect ISPs to create the content either. They are in the 'transport' business. They are lousy at creating content.
Kind regards,
*Muchiri* Nyaggah
Director
@muchiri
+254 722 506400
Semacraft.com
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:36 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
Hi,
Your current ISP charges you $500 for a 1MB link from your location to his edge router, after that it is called best effort especially since most ISPs do not have bandwidth managers.
I will take this seriously and do not back down when I come to you to signup.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
------------------------------ *From:* Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Fri, 24 September, 2010 10:01:06
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
no Robert
1MB for 50USD ... to anywhere ... I dont get limitations from my current providers
your thoughts ?
Hi, Fine, so long as it is local loop from your office to your collocation centre where you will be providing SaaS solutions. Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 9:50:23 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Robert
Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer
Just thinking
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a dedicated connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs of 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of satellite. In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be the entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has been said by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds....
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
“naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand
and
supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember,
potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM To: Edwin Onchari
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hi all,
Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans....
It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any
Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about?
I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?
In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com
wrote:
Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at
mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari <kictanet-bounces%2Beonchari>= lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force
will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project
- “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:00 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: the player. the that like limited
to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari < eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at
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-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date:
09/22/10
18:40:00
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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This message was sent to: muchiri@semacraft.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/muchiri%40semacraft.com
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This message was sent to: andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/andrea.bohnstedt%40rati...
-- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com
Hi Andrea. You may be right, their interests may not be drastically different from those a bit more flush with cash or unbothered by the lack of it. It may be Chivas for one but Chang'aa for another. At the end of the day it's alcohol for both of them. However, to be meaningful to the lower income individual, the alcohol would have to be delivered differently. Content that seeks to empower me will mostly be delivered in the format that works for the devices I am accustomed to. For my friend who is bootstrapping to start a car repair shop, his cellphone is everything to him. To empower him, content on the subject needs to be delivered in a format that works for HIS device. If FM radio has the kind of content that results in high levels of audience engagement, how can it be ported onto the Internet? If sales of FM radio phones have gone up because of the conversations happening on that space, won't sales of data enabled phones go up because meaningful conversations are happening online? More people taking up bandwidth may result in better economies of scale for network operators and lower costs for consumers (in my own little utopia at least) due to better headroom for competition. Better pricing would keep the government from entertaining populist ideas like price controls for bandwidth because supply and demand would have been modified to the customer's benefit. Little content, few subscribers, high prices. Let's make the Internet a place where [many] people want to go. Kind regards, *Muchiri* Nyaggah Director @muchiri +254 722 506400 Semacraft.com On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:56 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt < andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote:
Hey all,
I really dislike the term 'bottom of the pyramid' or 'bottom billion' - I find those expression quite patronising. How about low-income clients or something along those lines?
But that's by the by. I actually doubt that the so-called 'bottom billion' has so drastically different interests than the more middle class subscribers. I suspect that email/staying in touch, online dating, music and adult content are just as popular. Being poor doesn't automatically make you a more virtuous person. Look at people who buy changaa: barely any disposable income. And yet they'd still spend it on alcohol.
This is the big irony: with internet connectivity, we have a load of information at our fingertips. But few people actually bother looking it up. I see the wildest speculation and conspiracy theories on Facebook that would take to a couple of seconds to clear up with a google search - but people don't do it. I suspect you must have learned how to ask questions, ask the right questions, search for information, figure out how to evaluate information etc. (and yes, I'm generalising here).
Another thought: People already create content for the low-income segment - it's just delivered through FM stations rather than the internet.
Have a good week, Andrea
On 26 September 2010 01:22, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri@semacraft.com> wrote:
The Internet is a highway (a super one even) that takes us where we want to go. I believe there's a lot of local content online, its just not very meaningful for the vast majority living at the bottom of the pyramid. People who are busy trying to put food on the table won't get on the highway to go to a place called 'Hot or Not.' It's just not meaningful. I agree with Brian, for-profit enterprises have no reason to drop prices unless it becomes necessary for their survival. It will become necessary when the current realities of doing business are modified by say, a drop in demand for the high-cost Internet they are supplying.
As long we continue focusing on content such as blog posts, YouTube videos and entertainment applications, only those with disposable income or time will be consuming it. The real fortune for ISPs (like CK Prahalad said) lies at the bottom of the pyramid but until we generate content and applications that make meaning for the masses, we may have to live with a slow drop in prices much longer than we prefer to.
Don't expect ISPs to create the content either. They are in the 'transport' business. They are lousy at creating content.
Kind regards,
*Muchiri* Nyaggah
Director
@muchiri
+254 722 506400
Semacraft.com
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:36 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
Hi,
Your current ISP charges you $500 for a 1MB link from your location to his edge router, after that it is called best effort especially since most ISPs do not have bandwidth managers.
I will take this seriously and do not back down when I come to you to signup.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
------------------------------ *From:* Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Fri, 24 September, 2010 10:01:06
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
no Robert
1MB for 50USD ... to anywhere ... I dont get limitations from my current providers
your thoughts ?
Hi, Fine, so long as it is local loop from your office to your collocation centre where you will be providing SaaS solutions. Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 9:50:23 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Robert
Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer
Just thinking
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a dedicated connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs of 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of satellite. In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be the entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has been said by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds....
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com
wrote:
“naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand
and
supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember,
potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM To: Edwin Onchari
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hi all,
Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans....
It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any
Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about?
I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?
In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari < eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at
mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari <kictanet-bounces%2Beonchari>= lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force
will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project
- “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:00 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: the player. the that like limited
to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari < eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote: > Yes Dennis, > > > > Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for > less > than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
>in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at
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-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date:
09/22/10
18:40:00
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
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This message was sent to: muchiri@semacraft.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/muchiri%40semacraft.com
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-- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com
Arguing that the low income earners will have little to do on the interwebs is abit short sighted if you ask me. Same arguments were supplied when the mobile phone was introduced. As Andrea said, it is abit patronising imagining that a guy in mukuru slum would have little use for email and Facebook. How different is he from us? It is not content that spurs access but access that spurs content. If all the guys in the slums had access to a good connection they would create content THEMSELVES not be fed patronising content veiled as aid by some guy seated in a plush office waxing lyrical to foreign donors. On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 2:20 AM, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri@semacraft.com>wrote:
Hi Andrea. You may be right, their interests may not be drastically different from those a bit more flush with cash or unbothered by the lack of it. It may be Chivas for one but Chang'aa for another. At the end of the day it's alcohol for both of them. However, to be meaningful to the lower income individual, the alcohol would have to be delivered differently. Content that seeks to empower me will mostly be delivered in the format that works for the devices I am accustomed to. For my friend who is bootstrapping to start a car repair shop, his cellphone is everything to him. To empower him, content on the subject needs to be delivered in a format that works for HIS device.
If FM radio has the kind of content that results in high levels of audience engagement, how can it be ported onto the Internet? If sales of FM radio phones have gone up because of the conversations happening on that space, won't sales of data enabled phones go up because meaningful conversations are happening online? More people taking up bandwidth may result in better economies of scale for network operators and lower costs for consumers (in my own little utopia at least) due to better headroom for competition. Better pricing would keep the government from entertaining populist ideas like price controls for bandwidth because supply and demand would have been modified to the customer's benefit.
Little content, few subscribers, high prices. Let's make the Internet a place where [many] people want to go.
Kind regards,
*Muchiri* Nyaggah
Director
@muchiri
+254 722 506400
Semacraft.com
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:56 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt < andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote:
Hey all,
I really dislike the term 'bottom of the pyramid' or 'bottom billion' - I find those expression quite patronising. How about low-income clients or something along those lines?
But that's by the by. I actually doubt that the so-called 'bottom billion' has so drastically different interests than the more middle class subscribers. I suspect that email/staying in touch, online dating, music and adult content are just as popular. Being poor doesn't automatically make you a more virtuous person. Look at people who buy changaa: barely any disposable income. And yet they'd still spend it on alcohol.
This is the big irony: with internet connectivity, we have a load of information at our fingertips. But few people actually bother looking it up. I see the wildest speculation and conspiracy theories on Facebook that would take to a couple of seconds to clear up with a google search - but people don't do it. I suspect you must have learned how to ask questions, ask the right questions, search for information, figure out how to evaluate information etc. (and yes, I'm generalising here).
Another thought: People already create content for the low-income segment - it's just delivered through FM stations rather than the internet.
Have a good week, Andrea
On 26 September 2010 01:22, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri@semacraft.com>wrote:
The Internet is a highway (a super one even) that takes us where we want to go. I believe there's a lot of local content online, its just not very meaningful for the vast majority living at the bottom of the pyramid. People who are busy trying to put food on the table won't get on the highway to go to a place called 'Hot or Not.' It's just not meaningful. I agree with Brian, for-profit enterprises have no reason to drop prices unless it becomes necessary for their survival. It will become necessary when the current realities of doing business are modified by say, a drop in demand for the high-cost Internet they are supplying.
As long we continue focusing on content such as blog posts, YouTube videos and entertainment applications, only those with disposable income or time will be consuming it. The real fortune for ISPs (like CK Prahalad said) lies at the bottom of the pyramid but until we generate content and applications that make meaning for the masses, we may have to live with a slow drop in prices much longer than we prefer to.
Don't expect ISPs to create the content either. They are in the 'transport' business. They are lousy at creating content.
Kind regards,
*Muchiri* Nyaggah
Director
@muchiri
+254 722 506400
Semacraft.com
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:36 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
Hi,
Your current ISP charges you $500 for a 1MB link from your location to his edge router, after that it is called best effort especially since most ISPs do not have bandwidth managers.
I will take this seriously and do not back down when I come to you to signup.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
------------------------------ *From:* Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Fri, 24 September, 2010 10:01:06
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
no Robert
1MB for 50USD ... to anywhere ... I dont get limitations from my current providers
your thoughts ?
Hi, Fine, so long as it is local loop from your office to your collocation centre where you will be providing SaaS solutions. Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 9:50:23 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Robert
Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer
Just thinking
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a dedicated connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs of 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of satellite. In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be the entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has been said by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds....
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari < eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: > > “naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand and > supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish > way > of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband > by > 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will > encourage > our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember,
> potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day! > > > > Edwin > > > > Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a > pocket > full of holes. > DAVID TOOMA > > > > From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM > To: Edwin Onchari > > Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions > Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo > > > > Hi all, > > Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical > of us Kenyans.... > > It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet > services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any
> Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and > thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of > use > are dreaming about? > > I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust > the > supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results? > > In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out > of business - let's keep it that way. > > Regards, > > Brian > > On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari < eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote: > > Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller > businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at
> mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together > > > > Edwin > > > > Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a > pocket > full of holes. > DAVID TOOMA > > > > From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke > [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari <kictanet-bounces%2Beonchari>= lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On > Behalf Of Harry Hare > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM > To: Edwin > > Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo > > > > Hello All, > > Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates > which > are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force
> will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% > of > TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if
> operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, > together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project
> - > “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya. > > Think about it. > > Harry > > On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively > high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of > SUPER-PROFITS? > > Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between > the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:00 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: the player. the that the like limited
> to > Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& > Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc. > > The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of > the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable > impact > on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of > the > above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires > a > delicate balance of the whole ecosystem. > > But perhaps I could be wrong.. > > > walu. > > --- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: > > From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo > To: jwalu@yahoo.com > Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM > > Hi, > > On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari < eonchari@lynxbits.com > </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote: > > Yes Dennis, > > > > > > > > Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for > > less > > than $50… > > Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec > > >in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800. > > Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is > what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a > volume purchase of course. > > African eDevelopment Resource Centre > eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road > Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 > Nairobi : : Kenya > T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044 > > Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 > 18:40:00 > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com > > > -- > Brian Munyao Longwe > e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com > cell: + 254 722 518 744 > blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com > meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 > 18:40:00
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
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-- Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.posterous.com Skype : mark.mwangy
Mark, Its not that the the lower-income groups have no use for facebook or email. Its rather that facebook is hosted abroad (not local) and accessing it over expensive undersea or satellite links does increase the overall cost of internet access by some factor... put differently, if we had our very own, locally hosted facebook (or similarly high traffic sites) then we could reverse the Kenyan internet statistics that show over 80% of our internet traffic as being destined for foreign sites - thus increasing costs of access by a certain factor. (btw: Mich fix this link for statistics of the our local exchange point http://www.kixp.or.ke/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=34) Kukubo's example of streaming the recent film award is a good example of local content - but unfortunately this is a one-off event; we would need something that is high traffic oriented but on a continous/sustainable basis. McTim example of NTV on youtube is "sustainable/continuious" but not sure if it is sitting on LOCAL servers (someone needs to dig and tell us). In other words having local content that sits "abroad" does little to reduce the cost of internet access... I think the best and sustainable local content (within the context of internet access cost reduction) must start from Government sources/agencies...think land, judiciary, birth/passport, licensing, weather, education, transport, health content and what it can do to get "Wanjiku" positively and forever online. I know there's something happening in that space but it needs to be more visible/accessible to the general public...just the way, the IIEC became visible with their electronic election tallying - inspite of - the legal hurdles therein. walu. --- On Mon, 9/27/10, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: From: Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Monday, September 27, 2010, 11:14 AM Arguing that the low income earners will have little to do on the interwebs is abit short sighted if you ask me. Same arguments were supplied when the mobile phone was introduced. As Andrea said, it is abit patronising imagining that a guy in mukuru slum would have little use for email and Facebook. How different is he from us? It is not content that spurs access but access that spurs content. If all the guys in the slums had access to a good connection they would create content THEMSELVES not be fed patronising content veiled as aid by some guy seated in a plush office waxing lyrical to foreign donors. On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 2:20 AM, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri@semacraft.com> wrote: Hi Andrea. You may be right, their interests may not be drastically different from those a bit more flush with cash or unbothered by the lack of it. It may be Chivas for one but Chang'aa for another. At the end of the day it's alcohol for both of them. However, to be meaningful to the lower income individual, the alcohol would have to be delivered differently. Content that seeks to empower me will mostly be delivered in the format that works for the devices I am accustomed to. For my friend who is bootstrapping to start a car repair shop, his cellphone is everything to him. To empower him, content on the subject needs to be delivered in a format that works for HIS device. If FM radio has the kind of content that results in high levels of audience engagement, how can it be ported onto the Internet? If sales of FM radio phones have gone up because of the conversations happening on that space, won't sales of data enabled phones go up because meaningful conversations are happening online? More people taking up bandwidth may result in better economies of scale for network operators and lower costs for consumers (in my own little utopia at least) due to better headroom for competition. Better pricing would keep the government from entertaining populist ideas like price controls for bandwidth because supply and demand would have been modified to the customer's benefit. Little content, few subscribers, high prices. Let's make the Internet a place where [many] people want to go. Kind regards, Muchiri Nyaggah Director @muchiri+254 722 506400 Semacraft.com On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:56 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote: Hey all, I really dislike the term 'bottom of the pyramid' or 'bottom billion' - I find those expression quite patronising. How about low-income clients or something along those lines? But that's by the by. I actually doubt that the so-called 'bottom billion' has so drastically different interests than the more middle class subscribers. I suspect that email/staying in touch, online dating, music and adult content are just as popular. Being poor doesn't automatically make you a more virtuous person. Look at people who buy changaa: barely any disposable income. And yet they'd still spend it on alcohol. This is the big irony: with internet connectivity, we have a load of information at our fingertips. But few people actually bother looking it up. I see the wildest speculation and conspiracy theories on Facebook that would take to a couple of seconds to clear up with a google search - but people don't do it. I suspect you must have learned how to ask questions, ask the right questions, search for information, figure out how to evaluate information etc. (and yes, I'm generalising here). Another thought: People already create content for the low-income segment - it's just delivered through FM stations rather than the internet. Have a good week, Andrea On 26 September 2010 01:22, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri@semacraft.com> wrote: The Internet is a highway (a super one even) that takes us where we want to go. I believe there's a lot of local content online, its just not very meaningful for the vast majority living at the bottom of the pyramid. People who are busy trying to put food on the table won't get on the highway to go to a place called 'Hot or Not.' It's just not meaningful. I agree with Brian, for-profit enterprises have no reason to drop prices unless it becomes necessary for their survival. It will become necessary when the current realities of doing business are modified by say, a drop in demand for the high-cost Internet they are supplying. As long we continue focusing on content such as blog posts, YouTube videos and entertainment applications, only those with disposable income or time will be consuming it. The real fortune for ISPs (like CK Prahalad said) lies at the bottom of the pyramid but until we generate content and applications that make meaning for the masses, we may have to live with a slow drop in prices much longer than we prefer to. Don't expect ISPs to create the content either. They are in the 'transport' business. They are lousy at creating content. Kind regards, Muchiri Nyaggah Director @muchiri+254 722 506400 Semacraft.com On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:36 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi, Your current ISP charges you $500 for a 1MB link from your location to his edge router, after that it is called best effort especially since most ISPs do not have bandwidth managers. I will take this seriously and do not back down when I come to you to signup. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 10:01:06 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo no Robert 1MB for 50USD ... to anywhere ... I dont get limitations from my current providers your thoughts ? On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:00 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, Fine, so long as it is local loop from your office to your collocation
centre where you will be providing SaaS solutions. Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com>
To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 9:50:23 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Robert
Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer
Just thinking
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a
dedicated connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs of 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of
satellite. In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be the entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has been said
by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com>
To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should
go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not
hundreds....
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
“naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand and supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband
by 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM
To: Edwin Onchari
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hi all,
Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans....
It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet
services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of
use are dreaming about?
I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?
In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com>
wrote:
Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket
full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On
Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that
will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this,
together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively
high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited
to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact
on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a
delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject:
Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com
</mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for
less
than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is
what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road
Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: muchiri@semacraft.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/muchiri%40semacraft.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/andrea.bohnstedt%40rati... -- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: mwangy@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com -- Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.posterous.com Skype : mark.mwangy -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
Mark, I agree with you, access is critical to growth and there are instances where it precedes content. And yes, email/social networking/social media is useful to the masses with social tools now more popular than email. However, there has to be demand for access to become ubiquitous. Remember, at some point this boils down to lowering the cost of user access to the Internet. In addition to what we are already doing, what else can be done to make the Internet a more attractive channel for the African customer? We can have local Facebook Apps without even having to build or host a localized Facebook. Are creating or adapting content and platforms that bring meaning to peoples lives? I am working with the assumption that content is created by the minority. If the majority were creating content, the conversation on lack of local content would be unnecessary. There's a high density of cyber cafés in many towns and cities, brand new data enabled phones cost as little as KSh3,000 and Digital Villages supported by the Kenya ICT Board are up and running. Access in urban areas is no longer as poor as it was 5 years ago. There should be a great deal of content by now. If the content was more relevant than it is, the money needed for access would be found and demand created. If demand is healthy, free enterprise will provide supply. High supply would result in competition, which is good. In my opinion, a good example of the type of content or platforms that would escalate use of the Internet is Mocality (www.mocality.com), Hatari.co.ke as well as services that bridge mobile with Internet like Safaricom's Kipokezi chat & email service. My two cents. However, your perspective of "access comes first" raises an important issue. Is the ICT Board paying attention to Digital Villages in the slums? Kind regards, *Muchiri* Nyaggah Director @muchiri +254 722 506400 Semacraft.com On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Mark,
Its not that the the lower-income groups have no use for facebook or email. Its rather that facebook is hosted abroad (not local) and accessing it over expensive undersea or satellite links does increase the overall cost of internet access by some factor...
put differently, if we had our very own, locally hosted facebook (or similarly high traffic sites) then we could reverse the Kenyan internet statistics that show over 80% of our internet traffic as being destined for foreign sites - thus increasing costs of access by a certain factor. (btw: Mich fix this link for statistics of the our local exchange point http://www.kixp.or.ke/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=34 )
Kukubo's example of streaming the recent film award is a good example of local content - but unfortunately this is a one-off event; we would need something that is high traffic oriented but on a continous/sustainable basis. McTim example of NTV on youtube is "sustainable/continuious" but not sure if it is sitting on LOCAL servers (someone needs to dig and tell us). In other words having local content that sits "abroad" does little to reduce the cost of internet access...
I think the best and sustainable local content (within the context of internet access cost reduction) must start from Government sources/agencies...think land, judiciary, birth/passport, licensing, weather, education, transport, health content and what it can do to get "Wanjiku" positively and forever online. I know there's something happening in that space but it needs to be more visible/accessible to the general public...just the way, the IIEC became visible with their electronic election tallying - inspite of - the legal hurdles therein.
walu.
--- On *Mon, 9/27/10, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com>* wrote:
From: Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Monday, September 27, 2010, 11:14 AM
Arguing that the low income earners will have little to do on the interwebs is abit short sighted if you ask me. Same arguments were supplied when the mobile phone was introduced. As Andrea said, it is abit patronising imagining that a guy in mukuru slum would have little use for email and Facebook. How different is he from us? It is not content that spurs access but access that spurs content. If all the guys in the slums had access to a good connection they would create content THEMSELVES not be fed patronising content veiled as aid by some guy seated in a plush office waxing lyrical to foreign donors.
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 2:20 AM, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri@semacraft.com<http://mc/compose?to=muchiri@semacraft.com>
wrote:
Hi Andrea. You may be right, their interests may not be drastically different from those a bit more flush with cash or unbothered by the lack of it. It may be Chivas for one but Chang'aa for another. At the end of the day it's alcohol for both of them. However, to be meaningful to the lower income individual, the alcohol would have to be delivered differently. Content that seeks to empower me will mostly be delivered in the format that works for the devices I am accustomed to. For my friend who is bootstrapping to start a car repair shop, his cellphone is everything to him. To empower him, content on the subject needs to be delivered in a format that works for HIS device.
If FM radio has the kind of content that results in high levels of audience engagement, how can it be ported onto the Internet? If sales of FM radio phones have gone up because of the conversations happening on that space, won't sales of data enabled phones go up because meaningful conversations are happening online? More people taking up bandwidth may result in better economies of scale for network operators and lower costs for consumers (in my own little utopia at least) due to better headroom for competition. Better pricing would keep the government from entertaining populist ideas like price controls for bandwidth because supply and demand would have been modified to the customer's benefit.
Little content, few subscribers, high prices. Let's make the Internet a place where [many] people want to go.
Kind regards,
*Muchiri* Nyaggah
Director
@muchiri
+254 722 506400
Semacraft.com
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:56 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt < andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com<http://mc/compose?to=andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com>
wrote:
Hey all,
I really dislike the term 'bottom of the pyramid' or 'bottom billion' - I find those expression quite patronising. How about low-income clients or something along those lines?
But that's by the by. I actually doubt that the so-called 'bottom billion' has so drastically different interests than the more middle class subscribers. I suspect that email/staying in touch, online dating, music and adult content are just as popular. Being poor doesn't automatically make you a more virtuous person. Look at people who buy changaa: barely any disposable income. And yet they'd still spend it on alcohol.
This is the big irony: with internet connectivity, we have a load of information at our fingertips. But few people actually bother looking it up. I see the wildest speculation and conspiracy theories on Facebook that would take to a couple of seconds to clear up with a google search - but people don't do it. I suspect you must have learned how to ask questions, ask the right questions, search for information, figure out how to evaluate information etc. (and yes, I'm generalising here).
Another thought: People already create content for the low-income segment - it's just delivered through FM stations rather than the internet.
Have a good week, Andrea
On 26 September 2010 01:22, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri@semacraft.com<http://mc/compose?to=muchiri@semacraft.com>
wrote:
The Internet is a highway (a super one even) that takes us where we want to go. I believe there's a lot of local content online, its just not very meaningful for the vast majority living at the bottom of the pyramid. People who are busy trying to put food on the table won't get on the highway to go to a place called 'Hot or Not.' It's just not meaningful. I agree with Brian, for-profit enterprises have no reason to drop prices unless it becomes necessary for their survival. It will become necessary when the current realities of doing business are modified by say, a drop in demand for the high-cost Internet they are supplying.
As long we continue focusing on content such as blog posts, YouTube videos and entertainment applications, only those with disposable income or time will be consuming it. The real fortune for ISPs (like CK Prahalad said) lies at the bottom of the pyramid but until we generate content and applications that make meaning for the masses, we may have to live with a slow drop in prices much longer than we prefer to.
Don't expect ISPs to create the content either. They are in the 'transport' business. They are lousy at creating content.
Kind regards,
*Muchiri* Nyaggah
Director
@muchiri
+254 722 506400
Semacraft.com
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:36 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk<http://mc/compose?to=robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
Hi,
Your current ISP charges you $500 for a 1MB link from your location to his edge router, after that it is called best effort especially since most ISPs do not have bandwidth managers.
I will take this seriously and do not back down when I come to you to signup.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
------------------------------ *From:* Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=agostal@gmail.com>
*To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk<http://mc/compose?to=robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
*Sent:* Fri, 24 September, 2010 10:01:06
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
no Robert
1MB for 50USD ... to anywhere ... I dont get limitations from my current providers
your thoughts ?
Hi, Fine, so long as it is local loop from your office to your collocation centre where you will be providing SaaS solutions. Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=agostal@gmail.com>
To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk<http://mc/compose?to=robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 9:50:23 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Robert
Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer
Just thinking
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk<http://mc/compose?to=robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
Hi, When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a dedicated connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs of 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of satellite. In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be the entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has been said by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=blongwe@gmail.com>
To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk<http://mc/compose?to=robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds....
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com<http://mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com>
wrote:
“naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand
and
supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=blongwe@gmail.com> ] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM To: Edwin Onchari
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hi all,
Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans....
It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about?
I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?
In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com<http://mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com>
wrote:
Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at
mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet-bounces%2Beonchari> =lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke>] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force
will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:00 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk<http://mc/compose?to=robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote: the that like
- “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=jwalu@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=dogwallah@gmail.com>> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=dogwallah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com <http://mc/compose?to=jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com<http://mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com<http://mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com>> wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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http://www.greenstar.org/butterflies/Hole-in-the-Wall.htm Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Mon, 27 September, 2010 10:14:15 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Arguing that the low income earners will have little to do on the interwebs is abit short sighted if you ask me. Same arguments were supplied when the mobile phone was introduced. As Andrea said, it is abit patronising imagining that a guy in mukuru slum would have little use for email and Facebook. How different is he from us? It is not content that spurs access but access that spurs content. If all the guys in the slums had access to a good connection they would create content THEMSELVES not be fed patronising content veiled as aid by some guy seated in a plush office waxing lyrical to foreign donors. On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 2:20 AM, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri@semacraft.com> wrote: Hi Andrea. You may be right, their interests may not be drastically different from those a bit more flush with cash or unbothered by the lack of it. It may be Chivas for one but Chang'aa for another. At the end of the day it's alcohol for both of them. However, to be meaningful to the lower income individual, the alcohol would have to be delivered differently. Content that seeks to empower me will mostly be delivered in the format that works for the devices I am accustomed to. For my friend who is bootstrapping to start a car repair shop, his cellphone is everything to him. To empower him, content on the subject needs to be delivered in a format that works for HIS device.
If FM radio has the kind of content that results in high levels of audience engagement, how can it be ported onto the Internet? If sales of FM radio phones have gone up because of the conversations happening on that space, won't sales of data enabled phones go up because meaningful conversations are happening online? More people taking up bandwidth may result in better economies of scale for network operators and lower costs for consumers (in my own little utopia at least) due to better headroom for competition. Better pricing would keep the government from entertaining populist ideas like price controls for bandwidth because supply and demand would have been modified to the customer's benefit.
Little content, few subscribers, high prices. Let's make the Internet a place where [many] people want to go.
Kind regards,
Muchiri Nyaggah Director @muchiri +254 722 506400 Semacraft.com
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:56 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote:
Hey all,
I really dislike the term 'bottom of the pyramid' or 'bottom billion' - I find those expression quite patronising. How about low-income clients or something along those lines?
But that's by the by. I actually doubt that the so-called 'bottom billion' has so drastically different interests than the more middle class subscribers. I suspect that email/staying in touch, online dating, music and adult content are just as popular. Being poor doesn't automatically make you a more virtuous person. Look at people who buy changaa: barely any disposable income. And yet they'd still spend it on alcohol.
This is the big irony: with internet connectivity, we have a load of information at our fingertips. But few people actually bother looking it up. I see the wildest speculation and conspiracy theories on Facebook that would take to a couple of seconds to clear up with a google search - but people don't do it. I suspect you must have learned how to ask questions, ask the right questions, search for information, figure out how to evaluate information etc. (and yes, I'm generalising here).
Another thought: People already create content for the low-income segment - it's just delivered through FM stations rather than the internet.
Have a good week, Andrea
On 26 September 2010 01:22, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri@semacraft.com> wrote:
The Internet is a highway (a super one even) that takes us where we want to go. I believe there's a lot of local content online, its just not very meaningful for the vast majority living at the bottom of the pyramid. People who are busy trying to put food on the table won't get on the highway to go to a place called 'Hot or Not.' It's just not meaningful. I agree with Brian, for-profit enterprises have no reason to drop prices unless it becomes necessary for their survival. It will become necessary when the current realities of doing business are modified by say, a drop in demand for the high-cost Internet they are supplying.
As long we continue focusing on content such as blog posts, YouTube videos and entertainment applications, only those with disposable income or time will be consuming it. The real fortune for ISPs (like CK Prahalad said) lies at the bottom of the pyramid but until we generate content and applications that make meaning for the masses, we may have to live with a slow drop in prices much longer than we prefer to.
Don't expect ISPs to create the content either. They are in the 'transport' business. They are lousy at creating content.
Kind regards,
Muchiri Nyaggah Director @muchiri +254 722 506400 Semacraft.com
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:36 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
Your current ISP charges you $500 for a 1MB link from your location to his edge router, after that it is called best effort especially since most ISPs do not have bandwidth managers.
I will take this seriously and do not back down when I come to you to
signup.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 10:01:06
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
no Robert
1MB for 50USD ... to anywhere ... I dont get limitations from my current providers
your thoughts ?
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:00 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, Fine, so long as it is local loop from your office to your collocation centre where you will be providing SaaS solutions. Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 9:50:23 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Robert
Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer
Just thinking
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a dedicated connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs of 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of satellite. In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be the entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has been said by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds....
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: > > “naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand and > supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish > way > of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband > by > 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will > encourage > our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the > potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day! > > > > Edwin > > > > Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a > pocket > full of holes. > DAVID TOOMA > > > > From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM > To: Edwin Onchari > > Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions > Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo > > > > Hi all, > > Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical > of us Kenyans.... > > It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet > services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. > Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and > thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of > use > are dreaming about? > > I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust > the > supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results? > > In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out > of business - let's keep it that way. > > Regards, > > Brian > > On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote: > > Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller > businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the > mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together > > > > Edwin > > > > Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a > pocket > full of holes. > DAVID TOOMA > > > > From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke > [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On > Behalf Of Harry Hare > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM > To: Edwin > > Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo > > > > Hello All, > > Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates > which > are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force
From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> that
> will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% > of > TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the > operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, > together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like > - > “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya. > > Think about it. > > Harry > > On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively > high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of > SUPER-PROFITS? > > Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between > the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited > to > Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& > Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc. > > The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of > the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable > impact > on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of > the > above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires > a > delicate balance of the whole ecosystem. > > But perhaps I could be wrong.. > > > walu. > > --- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: > > From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo > To: jwalu@yahoo.com > Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM > > Hi, > > On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com > </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote: > > Yes Dennis, > > > > > > > > Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for > > less > > than $50… > > Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec > > >in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800. > > Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is > what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a > volume purchase of course. > > African eDevelopment Resource Centre > eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road > Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 > Nairobi : : Kenya > T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044 > > Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 > 18:40:00 > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com > > > -- > Brian Munyao Longwe > e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com > cell: + 254 722 518 744 > blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com > meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 > 18:40:00
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
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As someone who has spent considerable time in both the slums and rural areas working on ICT projects, I can tell you quite plainly, the demand for internet is great amongst those with lower incomes, but the lack of access at an affordable price is a huge barrier. Also the lack of quality public internet and computer training facilities is another hurdle. A little knowledge at an affordable cost goes a long, long way. Best, Crystal On 9/27/10, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
http://www.greenstar.org/butterflies/Hole-in-the-Wall.htm Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Mon, 27 September, 2010 10:14:15 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Arguing that the low income earners will have little to do on the interwebs is abit short sighted if you ask me. Same arguments were supplied when the mobile phone was introduced. As Andrea said, it is abit patronising imagining that a guy in mukuru slum would have little use for email and Facebook. How different is he from us? It is not content that spurs access but access that spurs content. If all the guys in the slums had access to a good connection they would create content THEMSELVES not be fed patronising content veiled as aid by some guy seated in a plush office waxing lyrical to foreign donors.
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 2:20 AM, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri@semacraft.com> wrote:
Hi Andrea. You may be right, their interests may not be drastically different from those a bit more flush with cash or unbothered by the lack of it. It may be Chivas for one but Chang'aa for another. At the end of the day it's alcohol for both of them. However, to be meaningful to the lower income individual, the alcohol would have to be delivered differently. Content that seeks to empower me will mostly be delivered in the format that works for the devices I am accustomed to. For my friend who is bootstrapping to start a car repair shop, his cellphone is everything to him. To empower him, content on the subject needs to be delivered in a format that works for HIS device.
If FM radio has the kind of content that results in high levels of audience
engagement, how can it be ported onto the Internet? If sales of FM radio phones have gone up because of the conversations happening on that space, won't sales of data enabled phones go up because meaningful conversations are happening
online? More people taking up bandwidth may result in better economies of scale for network operators and lower costs for consumers (in my own little utopia at least) due to better headroom for competition. Better pricing would keep the government from entertaining populist ideas like price controls for bandwidth because supply and demand would have been modified to the customer's benefit.
Little content, few subscribers, high prices. Let's make the Internet a place where [many] people want to go.
Kind regards,
Muchiri Nyaggah Director @muchiri +254 722 506400 Semacraft.com
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:56 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote:
Hey all,
I really dislike the term 'bottom of the pyramid' or 'bottom billion' - I find those expression quite patronising. How about low-income clients or something along those lines?
But that's by the by. I actually doubt that the so-called 'bottom billion' has so drastically different interests than the more middle class subscribers. I suspect that email/staying in touch, online dating, music and adult content are just as popular. Being poor doesn't automatically make you a more virtuous
person. Look at people who buy changaa: barely any disposable income. And yet they'd still spend it on alcohol.
This is the big irony: with internet connectivity, we have a load of information at our fingertips. But few people actually bother looking it up. I see the
wildest speculation and conspiracy theories on Facebook that would take to a couple of seconds to clear up with a google search - but people don't do it. I suspect you must have learned how to ask questions, ask the right questions, search for information, figure out how to evaluate information etc. (and yes, I'm generalising here).
Another thought: People already create content for the low-income segment - it's just delivered through FM stations rather than the internet.
Have a good week, Andrea
On 26 September 2010 01:22, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri@semacraft.com> wrote:
The Internet is a highway (a super one even) that takes us where we want to go. I believe there's a lot of local content online, its just not very meaningful for the vast majority living at the bottom of the pyramid. People who are busy trying to put food on the table won't get on the highway to go to a place called 'Hot or Not.' It's just not meaningful. I agree with Brian, for-profit enterprises have no reason to drop prices unless it becomes necessary for their survival. It will become necessary when the current realities of doing business are modified by say, a drop in demand for the high-cost Internet they are supplying.
As long we continue focusing on content such as blog posts, YouTube videos and entertainment applications, only those with disposable income or time will be consuming it. The real fortune for ISPs (like CK Prahalad said) lies at the bottom of the pyramid but until we generate content and applications that make meaning for the masses, we may have to live with a slow drop in prices much longer than we prefer to.
Don't expect ISPs to create the content either. They are in the 'transport' business. They are lousy at creating content.
Kind regards,
Muchiri Nyaggah Director @muchiri +254 722 506400 Semacraft.com
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:36 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
Your current ISP charges you $500 for a 1MB link from your location to his edge router, after that it is called best effort especially since most ISPs do not have bandwidth managers.
I will take this seriously and do not back down when I come to you to
signup.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 10:01:06
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
no Robert
1MB for 50USD ... to anywhere ... I dont get limitations from my current providers
your thoughts ?
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:00 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, Fine, so long as it is local loop from your office to your collocation centre where you will be providing SaaS solutions. Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 9:50:23 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Robert
Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer
Just thinking
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Hi, > When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a > dedicated > connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the > ISPs > of > 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 > subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old > days of > satellite. > In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should > be > the > entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has > been > said > by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently. > > Robert Yawe > KAY System Technologies Ltd > Phoenix House, 6th Floor > P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 > Kenya > > Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 > > ________________________________ > From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> > To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk > Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 > Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo > > I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in > Kenya > selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should > go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not > hundreds.... > > Brian > > On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari > <eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote: >> >> “naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect >> demand and >> supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the >> Finish >> way >> of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of >> broadband >> by >> 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will >> encourage >> our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, >> the >> potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day! >> >> >> >> Edwin >> >> >> >> Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a >> pocket >> full of holes. >> DAVID TOOMA >> >> >> >> From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM >> To: Edwin Onchari >> >> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical >> of us Kenyans.... >> >> It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for >> internet >> services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any >> player. >> Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying >> and >> thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many >> of >> use >> are dreaming about? >> >> I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we >> adjust >> the >> supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results? >> >> In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying >> out >> of business - let's keep it that way. >> >> Regards, >> >> Brian >> >> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari >> <eonchari@lynxbits.com> >> wrote: >> >> Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller >> businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at >> the >> mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together >> >> >> >> Edwin >> >> >> >> Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a >> pocket >> full of holes. >> DAVID TOOMA >> >> >> >> From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] >> On >> Behalf Of Harry Hare >> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM >> To: Edwin >> >> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo >> >> >> >> Hello All, >> >> Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates >> which >> are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force >>
From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> that
>> will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold >> 40% >> of >> TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if >> the >> operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the >> time...this, >> together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a >> project like >> - >> “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya. >> >> Think about it. >> >> Harry >> >> On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain >> relatively >> high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of >> SUPER-PROFITS? >> >> Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between >> the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not >> limited >> to >> Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, >> Regulatory& >> Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc. >> >> The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish >> which of >> the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable >> impact >> on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of >> any of >> the >> above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It >> requires >> a >> delicate balance of the whole ecosystem. >> >> But perhaps I could be wrong.. >> >> >> walu. >> >> --- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo >> To: jwalu@yahoo.com >> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" >> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM >> >> Hi, >> >> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari >> <eonchari@lynxbits.com >> </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote: >> > Yes Dennis, >> > >> > >> > >> > Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going >> > for >> > less >> > than $50… >> >> Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec >> >> >in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800. >> >> Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is >> what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for >> a >> volume purchase of course. >> >> African eDevelopment Resource Centre >> eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road >> Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 >> Nairobi : : Kenya >> T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044 >> >> Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >> Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: >> 09/22/10 >> 18:40:00 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >> This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com >> Unsubscribe or change your options at >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Brian Munyao Longwe >> e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com >> cell: + 254 722 518 744 >> blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com >> meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: >> 09/22/10 >> 18:40:00 > > > -- > Brian Munyao Longwe > e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com > cell: + 254 722 518 744 > blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com > meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: agostal@gmail.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/agostal%40gmail.com > >
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-- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com
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This message was sent to: mwangy@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
Skype : mark.mwangy
-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Executive Director Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/ Intersat Africa, Ltd Rural Internet Kiosks Project Coordinator crystal.kigoni@intersat.ae Twitter: VOA_Crystal Skype: crystal.naliaka Facebook group: Voices of Africa "You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi
I thought this was an interesting move by Essar/Yu - a chat and email service for which you don't need a smart phone: http://www.ratio-magazine.com/201009213639/Corporate-Press-Releases/Kenya-Pr... On 27 September 2010 19:25, Crystal Watley Kigoni < crystal@voicesofafrica.org> wrote:
As someone who has spent considerable time in both the slums and rural areas working on ICT projects, I can tell you quite plainly, the demand for internet is great amongst those with lower incomes, but the lack of access at an affordable price is a huge barrier. Also the lack of quality public internet and computer training facilities is another hurdle. A little knowledge at an affordable cost goes a long, long way.
Best,
Crystal
On 9/27/10, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
http://www.greenstar.org/butterflies/Hole-in-the-Wall.htm Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Mon, 27 September, 2010 10:14:15 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Arguing that the low income earners will have little to do on the
is abit short sighted if you ask me. Same arguments were supplied when the mobile phone was introduced. As Andrea said, it is abit patronising imagining
a guy in mukuru slum would have little use for email and Facebook. How different is he from us? It is not content that spurs access but access that spurs content. If all the guys in the slums had access to a good connection
would create content THEMSELVES not be fed patronising content veiled as aid by some guy seated in a plush office waxing lyrical to foreign donors.
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 2:20 AM, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri@semacraft.com> wrote:
Hi Andrea. You may be right, their interests may not be drastically different from those a bit more flush with cash or unbothered by the lack of it. It may be Chivas for one but Chang'aa for another. At the end of the day it's alcohol for both of them. However, to be meaningful to the lower income individual,
alcohol would have to be delivered differently. Content that seeks to empower me will mostly be delivered in the format that works for the devices I am accustomed to. For my friend who is bootstrapping to start a car repair shop, his cellphone is everything to him. To empower him, content on the subject needs to be delivered in a format that works for HIS device.
If FM radio has the kind of content that results in high levels of
audience
engagement, how can it be ported onto the Internet? If sales of FM radio phones have gone up because of the conversations happening on that space, won't sales of data enabled phones go up because meaningful conversations are
happening
online? More people taking up bandwidth may result in better economies of scale for network operators and lower costs for consumers (in my own little utopia at least) due to better headroom for competition. Better pricing would keep the government from entertaining populist ideas like price controls for bandwidth because supply and demand would have been modified to the customer's benefit.
Little content, few subscribers, high prices. Let's make the Internet a place where [many] people want to go.
Kind regards,
Muchiri Nyaggah Director @muchiri +254 722 506400 Semacraft.com
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:56 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote:
Hey all,
I really dislike the term 'bottom of the pyramid' or 'bottom billion' -
I
find those expression quite patronising. How about low-income clients or something along those lines?
But that's by the by. I actually doubt that the so-called 'bottom billion' has so drastically different interests than the more middle class subscribers. I suspect that email/staying in touch, online dating, music and adult content are just as popular. Being poor doesn't automatically make you a more virtuous
person. Look at people who buy changaa: barely any disposable income. And yet they'd still spend it on alcohol.
This is the big irony: with internet connectivity, we have a load of information at our fingertips. But few people actually bother looking it up. I see
wildest speculation and conspiracy theories on Facebook that would take
to
a couple of seconds to clear up with a google search - but people don't do it. I suspect you must have learned how to ask questions, ask the right questions, search for information, figure out how to evaluate information etc. (and yes, I'm generalising here).
Another thought: People already create content for the low-income segment - it's just delivered through FM stations rather than the internet.
Have a good week, Andrea
On 26 September 2010 01:22, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri@semacraft.com> wrote:
The Internet is a highway (a super one even) that takes us where we want to go. I believe there's a lot of local content online, its just not very meaningful for the vast majority living at the bottom of the pyramid. People who are busy trying to put food on the table won't get on the highway to go to a
called 'Hot or Not.' It's just not meaningful. I agree with Brian, for-profit enterprises have no reason to drop prices unless it becomes necessary for their survival. It will become necessary when the current realities of doing business are modified by say, a drop in demand for the high-cost Internet they are supplying.
As long we continue focusing on content such as blog posts, YouTube videos and entertainment applications, only those with disposable income or time will be consuming it. The real fortune for ISPs (like CK Prahalad said) lies at the bottom of the pyramid but until we generate content and applications
interwebs that they the the place that
make meaning for the masses, we may have to live with a slow drop in prices much longer than we prefer to.
Don't expect ISPs to create the content either. They are in the 'transport' business. They are lousy at creating content.
Kind regards,
Muchiri Nyaggah Director @muchiri +254 722 506400 Semacraft.com
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:36 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
Your current ISP charges you $500 for a 1MB link from your location to his edge router, after that it is called best effort especially since most ISPs do not have bandwidth managers.
I will take this seriously and do not back down when I come to you to
signup.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com>
To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 10:01:06
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
no Robert
1MB for 50USD ... to anywhere ... I dont get limitations from my current providers
your thoughts ?
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:00 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk
wrote:
> Hi, > Fine, so long as it is local loop from your office to your
collocation >>>>>> centre where you will be providing SaaS solutions. >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>> Robert Yawe >>>>>> KAY System Technologies Ltd >>>>>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor >>>>>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 >>>>>> Kenya >>>>>> >>>>>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> >>>>>> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>>>>> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 9:50:23 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo >>>>>> >>>>>> Robert >>>>>> >>>>>> Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a >>>>>> customer >>>>>> >>>>>> Just thinking >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe < robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> >>wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a >>>>>>> dedicated >>>>>>> connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the >>>>>>> ISPs >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 >>>>>>> subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old >>>>>>> days of >>>>>>> satellite. >>>>>>> In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has >>>>>>> been >>>>>>> said >>>>>>> by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Robert Yawe >>>>>>> KAY System Technologies Ltd >>>>>>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor >>>>>>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 >>>>>>> Kenya >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> >>>>>>> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk >>>>>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > >>>>>>> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in >>>>>>> Kenya >>>>>>> selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this > should >>>>>>> go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not >>>>>>> hundreds.... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari >>>>>>> <eonchari@lynxbits.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> “naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect >>>>>>>> demand > and >>>>>>>> supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the >>>>>>>> Finish >>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>> of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of >>>>>>>> broadband >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>> 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will >>>>>>>> encourage >>>>>>>> our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Edwin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a >>>>>>>> pocket >>>>>>>> full of holes. >>>>>>>> DAVID TOOMA >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM >>>>>>>> To: Edwin Onchari >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to > typical >>>>>>>> of us Kenyans.... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for >>>>>>>> internet >>>>>>>> services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any >>>>>>>> player. >>>>>>>> Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>> are dreaming about? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we >>>>>>>> adjust >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>> of business - let's keep it that way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari >>>>>>>> <eonchari@lynxbits.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller >>>>>>>> businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Edwin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a >>>>>>>> pocket >>>>>>>> full of holes. >>>>>>>> DAVID TOOMA >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>>>>>> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari <kictanet-bounces%2Beonchari>= lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Harry Hare >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM >>>>>>>> To: Edwin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates >>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>> are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force >>>>>>>> > that >>>>>>>> will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold >>>>>>>> 40% >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the >>>>>>>> time...this, >>>>>>>> together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a >>>>>>>> project >>like >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Think about it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain >>>>>>>> relatively >>>>>>>> high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of >>>>>>>> SUPER-PROFITS? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play > between >>>>>>>> the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not >>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, >>>>>>>> Regulatory& >>>>>>>> Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish >>>>>>>> which of >>>>>>>> the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable >>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>> on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of >>>>>>>> any of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It >>>>>>>> requires >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> delicate balance of the whole ecosystem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But perhaps I could be wrong.. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> walu. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo >>>>>>>> To: jwalu@yahoo.com >>>>>>>> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" >>>>>>>> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari >>>>>>>> <eonchari@lynxbits.com >>>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote: >>>>>>>> > Yes Dennis, >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going >>>>>>>> > for >>>>>>>> > less >>>>>>>> > than $50… >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is >>>>>>>> what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> volume purchase of course. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> African eDevelopment Resource Centre >>>>>>>> eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road >>>>>>>> Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 >>>>>>>> Nairobi : : Kenya >>>>>>>> T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: >>>>>>>> 09/22/10 >>>>>>>> 18:40:00 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> kictanet mailing list >>>>>>>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>>>>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>>>>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Brian Munyao Longwe >>>>>>>> e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com >>>>>>>> cell: + 254 722 518 744 >>>>>>>> blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com >>>>>>>> meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>>>> Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: >>>>>>>> 09/22/10 >>>>>>>> 18:40:00 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Brian Munyao Longwe >>>>>>> e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com >>>>>>> cell: + 254 722 518 744 >>>>>>> blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com >>>>>>> meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> kictanet mailing list >>>>>>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>>>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This message was sent to: agostal@gmail.com >>>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>>>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/agostal%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>kictanet mailing list >>>>>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>>>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>>> >>>>>This message was sent to: muchiri@semacraft.com >>>>>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/muchiri%40semacraft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>kictanet mailing list >>>>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>> >>>> >>>>This message was sent to: andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com >>>>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/andrea.bohnstedt%40ratio-magazine.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>Andrea Bohnstedt >>>Publisher >>>+254 720 960 322 >>>www.ratio-magazine.com >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>kictanet mailing list >>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >>This message was sent to: mwangy@gmail.com >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com >> >> > > > -- > Regards, > > Mark Mwangi > > http://mwangy.posterous.com > > Skype : mark.mwangy > > >
-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Executive Director Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/
Intersat Africa, Ltd Rural Internet Kiosks Project Coordinator crystal.kigoni@intersat.ae
Twitter: VOA_Crystal Skype: crystal.naliaka Facebook group: Voices of Africa
"You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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-- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com
Hello Listners, I take this opportunity to thank Safaricom for the classical music show that they presented at the Impala club yesterday. The variety of music is a typical example of local content that we keep on talking about. For those who attended and also those who watched it on TV can bear witness this. This is something that can be taken forward as it illustrates the wealth of talent that we have. MJ danced himself off! Regards, Sam Aguyo
Liko, you should be TKLs customer - in todays Nation Advert, they say they have slashed their MOBILE internet retail rates by more than half. Picture this:- 400MB download ceiling @ 450Ksh(5$) compared to Safaricom for 400MB at 1000Ksh (12$). It appears TKL has no sympathisers on this list since I thought this should have been "breaking news". Or maybe users are just wiser and suspect the contention ratios (Quality) upstream may just be extremely unacceptable.. At a National level, it would be interesting to confirm if the slashed prices did significantly increase No of Internet users in the country...my bet is that it wont. Instead what might happen is that the same 4million .KE internet users will just be shuffling between the Operators(looking for a bargain). My hypothesis is that Local Content is perhaps the biggest driver/variable that can increase the no of Internet Users in the country and eventually provide sustainable lower internet rates. Lower rates without significant Local Content is like telling me the cost of going to "Kacheliba" (no offense to our beloved Minister) has just been cut down by half - and so those who had not been going there(not been online) should suddenly start getting there (and do what?)... walu. btw: meanwhile, anybody subscribe to this new TKL rate to share their experiences before we all cross over to TKL? --- On Fri, 9/24/10, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote: From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Friday, September 24, 2010, 10:50 AM Robert Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer Just thinking On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a dedicated connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs of 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of satellite. In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be the entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has been said by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds....
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
“naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand and supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM To: Edwin Onchari
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hi all,
Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans....
It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about?
I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?
In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: agostal@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/agostal%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
The problem of local content is very simple to solve but the concerned parties are sitting on their hands and are playing too close to the book. We have a myriad local series on our tv stations and woe unto you if you miss an episode. You will never see it again anywhere. Why Nation media, Citizen group and standard group don't have reruns of all their local programmes online is something I cant comprehend. put them up on your sites, create hype, and receive feedback from the viewers. Assuming all your viewers are poor villagers incapable of browsing a website is the reason why internet use grows so sluggishly. as Chrystal Kigoni once said when asked what villagers will use the internet for, "how is not having it helping?" On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Liko,
you should be TKLs customer - in todays Nation Advert, they say they have slashed their MOBILE internet retail rates by more than half. Picture this:- 400MB download ceiling @ 450Ksh(5$) compared to Safaricom for 400MB at 1000Ksh (12$).
It appears TKL has no sympathisers on this list since I thought this should have been "breaking news". Or maybe users are just wiser and suspect the contention ratios (Quality) upstream may just be extremely unacceptable..
At a National level, it would be interesting to confirm if the slashed prices did significantly increase No of Internet users in the country...my bet is that it wont. Instead what might happen is that the same 4million .KE internet users will just be shuffling between the Operators(looking for a bargain).
My hypothesis is that Local Content is perhaps the biggest driver/variable that can increase the no of Internet Users in the country and eventually provide sustainable lower internet rates. Lower rates without significant Local Content is like telling me the cost of going to "Kacheliba" (no offense to our beloved Minister) has just been cut down by half - and so those who had not been going there(not been online) should suddenly start getting there (and do what?)...
walu. btw: meanwhile, anybody subscribe to this new TKL rate to share their experiences before we all cross over to TKL?
--- On *Fri, 9/24/10, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com>* wrote:
From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Friday, September 24, 2010, 10:50 AM
Robert
Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer
Just thinking
Hi, When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a dedicated connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs of 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20 subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of satellite. In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be
entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has been said by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently.
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=blongwe@gmail.com>
To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk <http://mc/compose?to=robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not hundreds....
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com<http://mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com>
wrote:
“naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand
and
supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish way of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband by 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will encourage our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a
full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=blongwe@gmail.com> ] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM To: Edwin Onchari
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hi all,
Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans....
It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about?
I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust
supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?
In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com<http://mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com>
wrote:
Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a
full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari <kictanet-bounces%2Beonchari>= lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke>] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force
will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project
“free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=jwalu@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk<http://mc/compose?to=robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote: the pocket the pocket that like - the
above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=dogwallah@gmail.com>> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=dogwallah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com <http://mc/compose?to=jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com<http://mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com<http://mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com>> wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com <http://mc/compose?to=blongwe@gmail.com> cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com <http://mc/compose?to=blongwe@gmail.com> cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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This message was sent to: mwangy@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com
-- Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.posterous.com Skype : mark.mwangy
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:51 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
The problem of local content is very simple to solve but the concerned parties are sitting on their hands and are playing too close to the book. We have a myriad local series on our tv stations and woe unto you if you miss an episode. You will never see it again anywhere. Why Nation media, Citizen group and standard group don't have reruns of all their local programmes online is something I cant comprehend. put them up on your sites, create hype, and receive feedback from the viewers.
I thought that (kenyan TV on youtube) was the first thing that Google did when they came to town. http://www.youtube.com/user/NTVKenya -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
I think Telkom are doing a great job with disruptive data pricing. However, I noted that it is a limited time offer so my excitement is on hold until the offer period is over. Kind regards, *Muchiri* Nyaggah Director @muchiri +254 722 506400 Semacraft.com On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 7:29 AM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:51 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
The problem of local content is very simple to solve but the concerned parties are sitting on their hands and are playing too close to the book. We have a myriad local series on our tv stations and woe unto you if you miss an episode. You will never see it again anywhere. Why Nation media, Citizen group and standard group don't have reruns of all their local programmes online is something I cant comprehend. put them up on your sites, create hype, and receive feedback from the viewers.
I thought that (kenyan TV on youtube) was the first thing that Google did when they came to town. http://www.youtube.com/user/NTVKenya
-- Cheers,
McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
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Hi, I believe the issue here is why should our local TV content be available on local servers therefore keeping the traffic within, by having it on Youtube we are incurring a cost of getting the stream through the marine cable. This is a typical Kenyan problem where we grow coffee, export it then reimport it processed, lets get serious and stream locally produced content from a local server. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Mon, 27 September, 2010 7:29:19 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-meanwhile TKL-Orange Slashes Internet Prices by 50%.. On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:51 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: The problem of local content is very simple to solve but the concerned parties are sitting on their hands and are playing too close to the book. We have a myriad local series on our tv stations and woe unto you if you miss an episode. You will never see it again anywhere. Why Nation media, Citizen group and standard group don't have reruns of all their local programmes online is something I cant comprehend. put them up on your sites, create hype, and receive feedback from the viewers. I thought that (kenyan TV on youtube) was the first thing that Google did when they came to town. http://www.youtube.com/user/NTVKenya -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
Hi, When Kenya Power supplies power to a salon are they in the salon business? No, so when the government levels the playing field they are not getting into business but are creating a favourable environment for business to flourish so that they can tax them and get money for social projects. We are not asking government to become an ISP the same way KDN has realised that retail of not their cup of tea but to make sure that we are not exploited by big business who deny upstarts and MSE (micro & small business). Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 16:19:47 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Hi all, Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical of us Kenyans.... It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player. Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of use are dreaming about? I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust the supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results? In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out of business - let's keep it that way. Regards, Brian On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
From:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Hare Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM To: Edwin
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Hello All,
Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
Think about it.
Harry
On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
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Hi Harry, The 40% shareholding in Teams of the GOK, if I am not mistaken, has been handed over to Orange. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Harry Hare <harry@africanedevelopment.org> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 14:34:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Hello All, Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates which are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40% of TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this, together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project like - “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya. Think about it. Harry On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS?
Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
But perhaps I could be wrong..
walu.
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com </mc/compose?to=eonchari@lynxbits.com> > wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
African eDevelopment Resource Centre eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100 Nairobi : : Kenya T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044 Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
If only we could create local content and then have CCK force the ISPs to provide unlimited access for the local loop thus allowing me to run a streaming server with 10 times faster response than Utube, allow the media houses to offer video on demand. I totally reject the model where I am provided with a bandwidth constraint whether I am going to Yahoo or to a local site. Content begins at home, the content we are all chasing, e.g. facebook, is local content to a surfer in the US look at the social sites in China where the need for accessing foreign sites is only for less than 10% who unfortunately make all the noise. The same applies here I am asking that we make a clear distinction between local and international traffic. In the days of Karisi Communications (1996), which was the pre-courser to AfricaOnline, they offered unlimited local email and charged an additional fee for international email. This model was brilliant as we proceeded to form vibrant forums. Unfortunately the company for taken over by short sighted individuals who kept dreaming of American content for all thus getting us to this point we are at today. The writing is on the wall, create local content or perish. Regards Soweto uprising Black students in Soweto protested against the Afrikaans Medium Decree of 1974 which forced all black schools to use Afrikaans and English in a 50-50 mix as languages of instruction. The Regional Director of Bantu Education (Northern Transvaal Region), J.G. Erasmus, told Circuit Inspectors and Principals of Schools that from January 1, 1975, Afrikaans had to be used for mathematics, arithmetic, and social studies from standard five (7th grade), according to the Afrikaans Medium Decree; English would be the medium of instruction for general science and practical subjects (homecraft, needlework, woodwork, metalwork, art, agricultural science). Indigenous languages would be used for religion instruction, music, and physical culture Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 14:14:17 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of SUPER-PROFITS? Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited to Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory& Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc. The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable impact on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of the above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires a delicate balance of the whole ecosystem. But perhaps I could be wrong.. walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
Yes Dennis,
Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for less than $50…
Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a volume purchase of course.
-- Cheers,
McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
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Yawe, I think everyone (including ISPs) ASSUMED that the marine cable will automatically crash the RETAIL internet prices. But ofcourse that turned out to be false. At the same time, it DOES NOT mean the marine cable was a wasted effort. It simply means the marine cable is NECESSARY but NOT SUFFICIENT to bring down retail internet prices. I am not sure at this moment in time whom to blame for this. But I know its not Dr. Ndemo nor the ISPs/Telcos. I am investigating this phenomena, and perhaps, sometime future I could share the results... walu. @ Nnenna, your quotes from Senegal, Ivory Coast are juicy - but dig deeper - since at face value, the mobile internet prices in .Ke look cheap, but in long term reality(usage) they ARE NOT! --- On Thu, 9/23/10, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 11:38 AM Hi, The ISPs have now teamed up and agreed that the cost of "International" Internet access will not be coming down soon because we have less than 2.6% penetration. Dr. Ndemo, this is a slap on you, wield your big stick, or sorry not possible you recently handed it over to Orange. There is only one solution to this issue lets concentrate in developing local content thereby reducing the dependence on the over hyped marine cable. But based on the discussions on the commodity exchange system this will be an up hill task as we question the credibility of everyone he tries to setup a local online application or service. I read an article on how Hon. Kilonzo is planning to setup green houses in all the schools in his constituency while the others are trying to provide computers to children who are not able to get a balanced diet. Again I repeat "I am ashamed to be a member of the ICT fraternity" but like was once said by a disgruntled KANU memebrr "I shall remain the opposition within" Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
Walu, The ISPs/Telcos are to blame for the sheer lack of innovation on their part. The one asset that they have not leveraged on is the abundant; under-utilized IT human resource and entrepreneurial base inKenya. Open up their supply chain to include this group(s) will see the last mile issue sorted = more users= shared costs on the bandwidth procured by ISPs=lowered retail prices My take, Edwin From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Walubengo J Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 1:04 PM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? Yawe, I think everyone (including ISPs) ASSUMED that the marine cable will automatically crash the RETAIL internet prices. But ofcourse that turned out to be false. At the same time, it DOES NOT mean the marine cable was a wasted effort. It simply means the marine cable is NECESSARY but NOT SUFFICIENT to bring down retail internet prices. I am not sure at this moment in time whom to blame for this. But I know its not Dr. Ndemo nor the ISPs/Telcos. I am investigating this phenomena, and perhaps, sometime future I could share the results... walu. @ Nnenna, your quotes from Senegal, Ivory Coast are juicy - but dig deeper - since at face value, the mobile internet prices in .Ke look cheap, but in long term reality(usage) they ARE NOT! --- On Thu, 9/23/10, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 11:38 AM Hi, The ISPs have now teamed up and agreed that the cost of "International" Internet access will not be coming down soon because we have less than 2.6% penetration. Dr. Ndemo, this is a slap on you, wield your big stick, or sorry not possible you recently handed it over to Orange. There is only one solution to this issue lets concentrate in developing local content thereby reducing the dependence on the over hyped marine cable. But based on the discussions on the commodity exchange system this will be an up hill task as we question the credibility of everyone he tries to setup a local online application or service. I read an article on how Hon. Kilonzo is planning to setup green houses in all the schools in his constituency while the others are trying to provide computers to children who are not able to get a balanced diet. Again I repeat "I am ashamed to be a member of the ICT fraternity" but like was once said by a disgruntled KANU memebrr "I shall remain the opposition within" Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3152 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
@ Edwin, By saying ISPs/Telcos to "Open Up their Supply Chain" do you mean "Force down the Retail Cost in order to stimulate demand?" - Hoping to recoup cost through larger volume sales? Again, the ASSUMPTION here is that lower costs will automatically stimulate demand. Perhaps there's no demand because there's no local internet content and as such dropping cost may not really increas demand. Put differently, 90% of the Kenyans who are currently NOT using the internet, dont, simply because there's NOTHING in it for them (why would my Dad get online? or that farmer in Kirinyaga? to do facebook, yahoo, youtube?(.. the current hot content "locally" here)). In other words even giving them FREE internet will not get them online...but it might get the Operators broke, forcing some of them to close shop and eventually deny the few 10% of the current Kenyan Internet Users access to the 'Net...far fetched but possible. walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: From: Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> Subject: RE: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? To: "'Walubengo J'" <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:16 PM Walu, The ISPs/Telcos are to blame for the sheer lack of innovation on their part. The one asset that they have not leveraged on is the abundant; under-utilized IT human resource and entrepreneurial base inKenya. Open up their supply chain to include this group(s) will see the last mile issue sorted = more users= shared costs on the bandwidth procured by ISPs=lowered retail prices My take, Edwin From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Walubengo J Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 1:04 PM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? Yawe, I think everyone (including ISPs) ASSUMED that the marine cable will automatically crash the RETAIL internet prices. But ofcourse that turned out to be false. At the same time, it DOES NOT mean the marine cable was a wasted effort. It simply means the marine cable is NECESSARY but NOT SUFFICIENT to bring down retail internet prices. I am not sure at this moment in time whom to blame for this. But I know its not Dr. Ndemo nor the ISPs/Telcos. I am investigating this phenomena, and perhaps, sometime future I could share the results... walu. @ Nnenna, your quotes from Senegal, Ivory Coast are juicy - but dig deeper - since at face value, the mobile internet prices in .Ke look cheap, but in long term reality(usage) they ARE NOT! --- On Thu, 9/23/10, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 11:38 AM Hi, The ISPs have now teamed up and agreed that the cost of "International" Internet access will not be coming down soon because we have less than 2.6% penetration. Dr. Ndemo, this is a slap on you, wield your big stick, or sorry not possible you recently handed it over to Orange. There is only one solution to this issue lets concentrate in developing local content thereby reducing the dependence on the over hyped marine cable. But based on the discussions on the commodity exchange system this will be an up hill task as we question the credibility of everyone he tries to setup a local online application or service. I read an article on how Hon. Kilonzo is planning to setup green houses in all the schools in his constituency while the others are trying to provide computers to children who are not able to get a balanced diet. Again I repeat "I am ashamed to be a member of the ICT fraternity" but like was once said by a disgruntled KANU memebrr "I shall remain the opposition within" Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3152 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
With the ISPs supply chain (support, reselling, etc) "outsourced" to independent providers, prices will come down and yes, content will come. Picture this: . Their overheads in getting connectivity to homes (some quite "remote") will be diminished as entrepreneurs such as myself will be willing to offer last mile services by offering connections to the flats/apts where I stay and buy bandwidth from the cheapest provider and resell - competition then sets in. I have to be the most affordable in my estate/village . I could offer virtual apartment searches at a minimal cost (this is an underground industry by itself as we speak-apartment viewing costs 1K a day) . I could offer bespoke, hosted SaaS, etc, at affordable rates (people can now afford to be online all the time) . I could supplement my income teaching class 8's, form 4's, college students in Math, Science, etc. Schools can enhance their distance learning offerings . TV stations can have their shows online ( I hate commercials and programs that least interest me), with millions ready to watch these at affordable rates.enormous advertising revenue for them. . I can make extra income by becoming a customer service agent of company X that can ill afford to hire me full time. Giving the company's customers 24/7 support, cheaply. . Order a consignment of bananas from Kisii, or Tilapia from Migingo (the seller there is able to access a digital village and market his/her produce, cyber rates will be less than 25 cents per minute of high speed access) . I can access government services at anytime of the day . The list is endless In a nutshell, innovation will kick in, content will be available and users will be in abundance. Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA From: Walubengo J [mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:39 PM To: Edwin Onchari Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: RE: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? @ Edwin, By saying ISPs/Telcos to "Open Up their Supply Chain" do you mean "Force down the Retail Cost in order to stimulate demand?" - Hoping to recoup cost through larger volume sales? Again, the ASSUMPTION here is that lower costs will automatically stimulate demand. Perhaps there's no demand because there's no local internet content and as such dropping cost may not really increas demand. Put differently, 90% of the Kenyans who are currently NOT using the internet, dont, simply because there's NOTHING in it for them (why would my Dad get online? or that farmer in Kirinyaga? to do facebook, yahoo, youtube?(.. the current hot content "locally" here)). In other words even giving them FREE internet will not get them online...but it might get the Operators broke, forcing some of them to close shop and eventually deny the few 10% of the current Kenyan Internet Users access to the 'Net...far fetched but possible. walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: From: Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> Subject: RE: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? To: "'Walubengo J'" <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:16 PM Walu, The ISPs/Telcos are to blame for the sheer lack of innovation on their part. The one asset that they have not leveraged on is the abundant; under-utilized IT human resource and entrepreneurial base inKenya. Open up their supply chain to include this group(s) will see the last mile issue sorted = more users= shared costs on the bandwidth procured by ISPs=lowered retail prices My take, Edwin From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Walubengo J Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 1:04 PM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? Yawe, I think everyone (including ISPs) ASSUMED that the marine cable will automatically crash the RETAIL internet prices. But ofcourse that turned out to be false. At the same time, it DOES NOT mean the marine cable was a wasted effort. It simply means the marine cable is NECESSARY but NOT SUFFICIENT to bring down retail internet prices. I am not sure at this moment in time whom to blame for this. But I know its not Dr. Ndemo nor the ISPs/Telcos. I am investigating this phenomena, and perhaps, sometime future I could share the results... walu. @ Nnenna, your quotes from Senegal, Ivory Coast are juicy - but dig deeper - since at face value, the mobile internet prices in .Ke look cheap, but in long term reality(usage) they ARE NOT! --- On Thu, 9/23/10, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 11:38 AM Hi, The ISPs have now teamed up and agreed that the cost of "International" Internet access will not be coming down soon because we have less than 2.6% penetration. Dr. Ndemo, this is a slap on you, wield your big stick, or sorry not possible you recently handed it over to Orange. There is only one solution to this issue lets concentrate in developing local content thereby reducing the dependence on the over hyped marine cable. But based on the discussions on the commodity exchange system this will be an up hill task as we question the credibility of everyone he tries to setup a local online application or service. I read an article on how Hon. Kilonzo is planning to setup green houses in all the schools in his constituency while the others are trying to provide computers to children who are not able to get a balanced diet. Again I repeat "I am ashamed to be a member of the ICT fraternity" but like was once said by a disgruntled KANU memebrr "I shall remain the opposition within" Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3152 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
Nice ideas - by the way - dont shout too much, I know a couple of chaps who are doing this "under the hood" ;-) And so maybe the question would be to what extent has the Regulatory environment failed to address this segment of business that perhaprs can have a +ve impact on the Internet retail prices? I know they unbundled the last-mile during the fixed-telcom days, probably it is about time they also unbundled the "last-mile" for the mobile operators? that would be quite an interesting proposition - but it can get most of your ideas running over rather than under the hood.. walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: From: Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> Subject: RE: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? To: "'Walubengo J'" <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 4:08 PM With the ISPs supply chain (support, reselling, etc) “outsourced” to independent providers, prices will come down and yes, content will come. Picture this: · Their overheads in getting connectivity to homes (some quite “remote”) will be diminished as entrepreneurs such as myself will be willing to offer last mile services by offering connections to the flats/apts where I stay and buy bandwidth from the cheapest provider and resell – competition then sets in. I have to be the most affordable in my estate/village · I could offer virtual apartment searches at a minimal cost (this is an underground industry by itself as we speak-apartment viewing costs 1K a day) · I could offer bespoke, hosted SaaS, etc, at affordable rates (people can now afford to be online all the time) · I could supplement my income teaching class 8’s, form 4’s, college students in Math, Science, etc. Schools can enhance their distance learning offerings · TV stations can have their shows online ( I hate commercials and programs that least interest me), with millions ready to watch these at affordable rates…enormous advertising revenue for them. · I can make extra income by becoming a customer service agent of company X that can ill afford to hire me full time. Giving the company’s customers 24/7 support, cheaply. · Order a consignment of bananas from Kisii, or Tilapia from Migingo (the seller there is able to access a digital village and market his/her produce, cyber rates will be less than 25 cents per minute of high speed access) · I can access government services at anytime of the day · The list is endless In a nutshell, innovation will kick in, content will be available and users will be in abundance. Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA From: Walubengo J [mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:39 PM To: Edwin Onchari Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: RE: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? @ Edwin, By saying ISPs/Telcos to "Open Up their Supply Chain" do you mean "Force down the Retail Cost in order to stimulate demand?" - Hoping to recoup cost through larger volume sales? Again, the ASSUMPTION here is that lower costs will automatically stimulate demand. Perhaps there's no demand because there's no local internet content and as such dropping cost may not really increas demand. Put differently, 90% of the Kenyans who are currently NOT using the internet, dont, simply because there's NOTHING in it for them (why would my Dad get online? or that farmer in Kirinyaga? to do facebook, yahoo, youtube?(.. the current hot content "locally" here)). In other words even giving them FREE internet will not get them online...but it might get the Operators broke, forcing some of them to close shop and eventually deny the few 10% of the current Kenyan Internet Users access to the 'Net...far fetched but possible. walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: From: Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> Subject: RE: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? To: "'Walubengo J'" <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:16 PM Walu, The ISPs/Telcos are to blame for the sheer lack of innovation on their part. The one asset that they have not leveraged on is the abundant; under-utilized IT human resource and entrepreneurial base inKenya. Open up their supply chain to include this group(s) will see the last mile issue sorted = more users= shared costs on the bandwidth procured by ISPs=lowered retail prices My take, Edwin From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Walubengo J Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 1:04 PM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? Yawe, I think everyone (including ISPs) ASSUMED that the marine cable will automatically crash the RETAIL internet prices. But ofcourse that turned out to be false. At the same time, it DOES NOT mean the marine cable was a wasted effort. It simply means the marine cable is NECESSARY but NOT SUFFICIENT to bring down retail internet prices. I am not sure at this moment in time whom to blame for this. But I know its not Dr. Ndemo nor the ISPs/Telcos. I am investigating this phenomena, and perhaps, sometime future I could share the results... walu. @ Nnenna, your quotes from Senegal, Ivory Coast are juicy - but dig deeper - since at face value, the mobile internet prices in .Ke look cheap, but in long term reality(usage) they ARE NOT! --- On Thu, 9/23/10, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 11:38 AM Hi, The ISPs have now teamed up and agreed that the cost of "International" Internet access will not be coming down soon because we have less than 2.6% penetration. Dr. Ndemo, this is a slap on you, wield your big stick, or sorry not possible you recently handed it over to Orange. There is only one solution to this issue lets concentrate in developing local content thereby reducing the dependence on the over hyped marine cable. But based on the discussions on the commodity exchange system this will be an up hill task as we question the credibility of everyone he tries to setup a local online application or service. I read an article on how Hon. Kilonzo is planning to setup green houses in all the schools in his constituency while the others are trying to provide computers to children who are not able to get a balanced diet. Again I repeat "I am ashamed to be a member of the ICT fraternity" but like was once said by a disgruntled KANU memebrr "I shall remain the opposition within" Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3152 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
Lol..all I am saying is that this will bring a shift on the status quo. By the way, just wondering, are there folks from Treasury/Min of Finance in here listening on these discussions? Do we have a “non-political”, professional, small business administration (SBA) equivalent in Kenya? Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA From: Walubengo J [mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:37 PM To: Edwin Onchari Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: RE: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? Nice ideas - by the way - dont shout too much, I know a couple of chaps who are doing this "under the hood" ;-) And so maybe the question would be to what extent has the Regulatory environment failed to address this segment of business that perhaprs can have a +ve impact on the Internet retail prices? I know they unbundled the last-mile during the fixed-telcom days, probably it is about time they also unbundled the "last-mile" for the mobile operators? that would be quite an interesting proposition - but it can get most of your ideas running over rather than under the hood.. walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: From: Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> Subject: RE: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? To: "'Walubengo J'" <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 4:08 PM With the ISPs supply chain (support, reselling, etc) “outsourced” to independent providers, prices will come down and yes, content will come. Picture this: · Their overheads in getting connectivity to homes (some quite “remote”) will be diminished as entrepreneurs such as myself will be willing to offer last mile services by offering connections to the flats/apts where I stay and buy bandwidth from the cheapest provider and resell – competition then sets in. I have to be the most affordable in my estate/village · I could offer virtual apartment searches at a minimal cost (this is an underground industry by itself as we speak-apartment viewing costs 1K a day) · I could offer bespoke, hosted SaaS, etc, at affordable rates (people can now afford to be online all the time) · I could supplement my income teaching class 8’s, form 4’s, college students in Math, Science, etc. Schools can enhance their distance learning offerings · TV stations can have their shows online ( I hate commercials and programs that least interest me), with millions ready to watch these at affordable rates…enormous advertising revenue for them. · I can make extra income by becoming a customer service agent of company X that can ill afford to hire me full time. Giving the company’s customers 24/7 support, cheaply. · Order a consignment of bananas from Kisii, or Tilapia from Migingo (the seller there is able to access a digital village and market his/her produce, cyber rates will be less than 25 cents per minute of high speed access) · I can access government services at anytime of the day · The list is endless In a nutshell, innovation will kick in, content will be available and users will be in abundance. Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA From: Walubengo J [mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:39 PM To: Edwin Onchari Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: RE: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? @ Edwin, By saying ISPs/Telcos to "Open Up their Supply Chain" do you mean "Force down the Retail Cost in order to stimulate demand?" - Hoping to recoup cost through larger volume sales? Again, the ASSUMPTION here is that lower costs will automatically stimulate demand. Perhaps there's no demand because there's no local internet content and as such dropping cost may not really increas demand. Put differently, 90% of the Kenyans who are currently NOT using the internet, dont, simply because there's NOTHING in it for them (why would my Dad get online? or that farmer in Kirinyaga? to do facebook, yahoo, youtube?(.. the current hot content "locally" here)). In other words even giving them FREE internet will not get them online...but it might get the Operators broke, forcing some of them to close shop and eventually deny the few 10% of the current Kenyan Internet Users access to the 'Net...far fetched but possible. walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote: From: Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> Subject: RE: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? To: "'Walubengo J'" <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:16 PM Walu, The ISPs/Telcos are to blame for the sheer lack of innovation on their part. The one asset that they have not leveraged on is the abundant; under-utilized IT human resource and entrepreneurial base inKenya. Open up their supply chain to include this group(s) will see the last mile issue sorted = more users= shared costs on the bandwidth procured by ISPs=lowered retail prices My take, Edwin From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Walubengo J Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 1:04 PM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? Yawe, I think everyone (including ISPs) ASSUMED that the marine cable will automatically crash the RETAIL internet prices. But ofcourse that turned out to be false. At the same time, it DOES NOT mean the marine cable was a wasted effort. It simply means the marine cable is NECESSARY but NOT SUFFICIENT to bring down retail internet prices. I am not sure at this moment in time whom to blame for this. But I know its not Dr. Ndemo nor the ISPs/Telcos. I am investigating this phenomena, and perhaps, sometime future I could share the results... walu. @ Nnenna, your quotes from Senegal, Ivory Coast are juicy - but dig deeper - since at face value, the mobile internet prices in .Ke look cheap, but in long term reality(usage) they ARE NOT! --- On Thu, 9/23/10, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 11:38 AM Hi, The ISPs have now teamed up and agreed that the cost of "International" Internet access will not be coming down soon because we have less than 2.6% penetration. Dr. Ndemo, this is a slap on you, wield your big stick, or sorry not possible you recently handed it over to Orange. There is only one solution to this issue lets concentrate in developing local content thereby reducing the dependence on the over hyped marine cable. But based on the discussions on the commodity exchange system this will be an up hill task as we question the credibility of everyone he tries to setup a local online application or service. I read an article on how Hon. Kilonzo is planning to setup green houses in all the schools in his constituency while the others are trying to provide computers to children who are not able to get a balanced diet. Again I repeat "I am ashamed to be a member of the ICT fraternity" but like was once said by a disgruntled KANU memebrr "I shall remain the opposition within" Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3152 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
Hi, Give the farmer in Kirinyaga relevant content and he will want to get online, give you dad relevant local content like a social network where he can meet with his grandchildren and he will want to get online. Watch Citizen TV during working hours for you and me or listen to Kameme during the same time and you will realise that the reason the farmer in Kirinyaga listens to Kameme when picking tea. The content is not the raunchy discussions on Kiss and Capital which add no productive value but erode our morals. Take this model online and resolve the issue of dealing with the ISP, lets see how they will survive the county governments. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 14:39:28 Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? @ Edwin, By saying ISPs/Telcos to "Open Up their Supply Chain" do you mean "Force down the Retail Cost in order to stimulate demand?" - Hoping to recoup cost through larger volume sales? Again, the ASSUMPTION here is that lower costs will automatically stimulate demand. Perhaps there's no demand because there's no local internet content and as such dropping cost may not really increas demand. Put differently, 90% of the Kenyans who are currently NOT using the internet, dont, simply because there's NOTHING in it for them (why would my Dad get online? or that farmer in Kirinyaga? to do facebook, yahoo, youtube?(.. the current hot content "locally" here)). In other words even giving them FREE internet will not get them online...but it might get the Operators broke, forcing some of them to close shop and eventually deny the few 10% of the current Kenyan Internet Users access to the 'Net...far fetched but possible. walu. --- On Thu, 9/23/10, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:
From: Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> Subject: RE: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame? To: "'Walubengo J'" <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:16 PM
Walu,
The ISPs/Telcos are to blame for the sheer lack of innovation on their part. The one asset that they have not leveraged on is the abundant; under-utilized IT human resource and entrepreneurial base inKenya. Open up their supply chain to include this group(s) will see the last mile issue sorted = more users= shared costs on the bandwidth procured by ISPs=lowered retail prices
My take,
Edwin
From:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Walubengo J Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 1:04 PM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo-but who is to blame?
Yawe,
I think everyone (including ISPs) ASSUMED that the marine cable will automatically crash the RETAIL internet prices. But ofcourse that turned out to be false.
At the same time, it DOES NOT mean the marine cable was a wasted effort. It simply means the marine cable is NECESSARY but NOT SUFFICIENT to bring down retail internet prices.
I am not sure at this moment in time whom to blame for this. But I know its not Dr. Ndemo nor the ISPs/Telcos. I am investigating this phenomena, and perhaps, sometime future I could share the results...
walu. @ Nnenna, your quotes from Senegal, Ivory Coast are juicy - but dig deeper - since at face value, the mobile internet prices in .Ke look cheap, but in long term reality(usage) they ARE NOT!
--- On Thu, 9/23/10, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 11:38 AM Hi,
The ISPs have now teamed up and agreed that the cost of "International" Internet access will not be coming down soon because we have less than 2.6% penetration.
Dr. Ndemo, this is a slap on you, wield your big stick, or sorry not possible you recently handed it over to Orange.
There is only one solution to this issue lets concentrate in developing local content thereby reducing the dependence on the over hyped marine cable. But based on the discussions on the commodity exchange system this will be an up hill task as we question the credibility of everyone he tries to setup a local online application or service.
I read an article on how Hon. Kilonzo is planning to setup green houses in all the schools in his constituency while the others are trying to provide computers to children who are not able to get a balanced diet.
Again I repeat "I am ashamed to be a member of the ICT fraternity" but like was once said by a disgruntled KANU memebrr "I shall remain the opposition within"
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
-----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3152 - Release Date: 09/22/10 18:40:00
participants (16)
-
Agosta Liko -
Andrea Bohnstedt -
Ben Akoh -
bitange＠jambo.co.ke -
Brian Munyao Longwe -
Crystal Watley Kigoni -
dennis kipruto -
Edwin Onchari -
Harry Hare -
Mark Mwangi -
McTim -
Muchiri Nyaggah -
Nnenna Nwakanma -
robert yawe -
Sam Aguyo -
Walubengo J