Re: [kictanet] Poghisio Flouting The Law in The CCK Tussle-by DMakali
@ Leonard, my reasons for using names is that there are times when we need leadership, I mentioned the Chair and the minister because they have what it takes to resolve the current challenge, we all know that there is the spirit and the letter of the law, good leadership espouses both, I fully agree with Gitau but what is the use of the law if we don't relate well as stakeholders? On 4/20/11, dmakali@yahoo.com <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote:
-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
While at this subject, its a pity we are playing safe, leaders at key state organisations should come out boldly and state the challenges they are facing if any, it does us no good to be gossiping or listening to grapevine, I wonder why we don't invoke the law during the numerous cocktails we have, let's uphold good faith in all our dealings and stop playing cards under the table as the late Hon. Wamalwa challenged the leaders. On 4/20/11, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
Dear all, There is an angle to this whole story that is revealed in "The Indian Ocean Newsletter" on http://www.africaintelligence.com/ION/politics-power/2011/04/16/trench-warfa... Those mentioned in the story may want to enlighten us on the accuracy of the publication by Africa Intelligence. I cannot share the contents here due to reason related to the court ruling alluded to by Alex...and the limitations set by the publisher. Enjoy the revealing read. Eng. Wainaina On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 4:43 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi, On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Eng. Wainaina Mungai <wainaina.mungai@gmail.com> wrote:
I hit a paywall (4 Euro for 200 words is 2 Euro cents per word!) Can you post it here please? Can you imagine how wealthy we would all be if we got 2 Eurocents per word from everybody who read for what we write online!! -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
Hi Listers Yesterday's discussion was very insightful and it would be a pity if it did not inform our legal framework going forward . In Feb and March this year, we fervently contributed to the upcoming ICCK Bill on the initiative of Dr Ndemo. The final report from the list is attached for those who did not have a chance to look at it. The closing date for comments in the list was March 22nd. Unfortunately, we did not have the benefit of this discussion and would suggest that the moderator include some of the comments that come from the on-going postings . Some of the issues raised are not addressed in the Draft ICCK and we are condemned to repeat it even in the new dispensation . My key take-away from yesterdays discussion which should inform ICCK now in drafting stage are; - term 1 and any subsequent terms of a DG office holder are delinked - appointment in the first term does not confer any claim whatsoever to any subsequent terms. The incumbent holder is eligible for a further term (s) but in a competitive process not a decision of the Board . An effective incumbent has the advantage of incumbency he/she can present to the selection panel. The panel is of course at liberty to take note - the appointment of the Board must be through a competitive process and reflect the face of Kenya, the supply side and demand side of the sector - Board positions should be filled just like that of the DG, i.e. an outgoing Board member apply for renewal before the expiry of the term and the position is filled by the time of the expiry of the term and remove discretion on the date of appointment - the hiring authority for the DG is the Board . This therefore commits the Board and provides it with unfettered tools to deliver on performance contracting. Thus there cannot be performance of the Board versus performance of the DG - DG has a right of appeal, else the holder will be a mere functionary .. In the current set up and also as envisaged in the ICCK Bill, the DG has no right of appeal to the Board Decisions. - that decision of the CCK emanate from the Board and not any other office, any appeal to that decision belong to the Appeals Tribunal. The Appeals Tribunal needs to be freshed out to handle these issues including the case of any staff who feels aggrieved by decisions of the Board exercising the powers under the Act - in conformity with the new constitution, deliberation of the Board are public information - ICCK cannot be independent if the government has the largest representation at the Board through PSs. - The number of Board members should be defined. ICCK Draft only prescribes ' at least ' -- should be have a limit and remove discretion. cheers Muriuki Mureithi Consultant Member Society of Telecommunications Consultants what chance gathers , she easily scatters !! Johann Wolfgang von Goethe -----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+mureithi=summitstrategies.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+mureithi=summitstrategies.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.k e] On Behalf Of McTim Sent: 20 April 2011 20:35 To: mureithi@summitstrategies.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Poghisio Flouting The Law in The CCK Tussle-by DMakali Hi, On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Eng. Wainaina Mungai <wainaina.mungai@gmail.com> wrote:
on http://www.africaintelligence.com/ION/politics-power/2011/04/16/trench-wa rfare-against-njoroge-at-cck%2C89365816-ART-login I hit a paywall (4 Euro for 200 words is 2 Euro cents per word!) Can you post it here please? Can you imagine how wealthy we would all be if we got 2 Eurocents per word from everybody who read for what we write online!! -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mureithi%40summitstrate gies.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Muriuki Nice that you have summarised yesterday's debate. We have not presented the reports formally and I agree with you that we need to include these recommendations. They will go along away in strengthening the ICCK Bill 2010. Rgds Grace ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you have the strength to survive, you have the power to succeed. Life is all about choices we make depending upon the situation we are in. Go forth and rule the World! From: mureithi@summitstrategies.co.ke Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 08:49:08 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Poghisio Flouting The Law in The CCK Tussle-by DMakali CC: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com Hi Listers Yesterday's discussion was very insightful and it would be a pity if it did not inform our legal framework going forward . In Feb and March this year, we fervently contributed to the upcoming ICCK Bill on the initiative of Dr Ndemo. The final report from the list is attached for those who did not have a chance to look at it. The closing date for comments in the list was March 22nd. Unfortunately, we did not have the benefit of this discussion and would suggest that the moderator include some of the comments that come from the on-going postings . Some of the issues raised are not addressed in the Draft ICCK and we are condemned to repeat it even in the new dispensation . My key take-away from yesterdays discussion which should inform ICCK now in drafting stage are; - term 1 and any subsequent terms of a DG office holder are delinked - appointment in the first term does not confer any claim whatsoever to any subsequent terms. The incumbent holder is eligible for a further term (s) but in a competitive process not a decision of the Board . An effective incumbent has the advantage of incumbency he/she can present to the selection panel. The panel is of course at liberty to take note - the appointment of the Board must be through a competitive process and reflect the face of Kenya, the supply side and demand side of the sector - Board positions should be filled just like that of the DG, i.e. an outgoing Board member apply for renewal before the expiry of the term and the position is filled by the time of the expiry of the term and remove discretion on the date of appointment - the hiring authority for the DG is the Board . This therefore commits the Board and provides it with unfettered tools to deliver on performance contracting. Thus there cannot be performance of the Board versus performance of the DG - DG has a right of appeal, else the holder will be a mere functionary .. In the current set up and also as envisaged in the ICCK Bill, the DG has no right of appeal to the Board Decisions. - that decision of the CCK emanate from the Board and not any other office, any appeal to that decision belong to the Appeals Tribunal. The Appeals Tribunal needs to be freshed out to handle these issues including the case of any staff who feels aggrieved by decisions of the Board exercising the powers under the Act - in conformity with the new constitution, deliberation of the Board are public information - ICCK cannot be independent if the government has the largest representation at the Board through PSs. - The number of Board members should be defined. ICCK Draft only prescribes ' at least ' -- should be have a limit and remove discretion. cheers Muriuki Mureithi Consultant Member Society of Telecommunications Consultants what chance gathers , she easily scatters !! Johann Wolfgang von Goethe -----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+mureithi=summitstrategies.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+mureithi=summitstrategies.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.k e] On Behalf Of McTim Sent: 20 April 2011 20:35 To: mureithi@summitstrategies.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Poghisio Flouting The Law in The CCK Tussle-by DMakali Hi, On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Eng. Wainaina Mungai <wainaina.mungai@gmail.com> wrote:
on http://www.africaintelligence.com/ION/politics-power/2011/04/16/trench-wa rfare-against-njoroge-at-cck%2C89365816-ART-login I hit a paywall (4 Euro for 200 words is 2 Euro cents per word!) Can you post it here please? Can you imagine how wealthy we would all be if we got 2 Eurocents per word from everybody who read for what we write online!! -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mureithi%40summitstrate gies.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
I must add my voice in this debate! A critical thing that is playing out irrespective of who is acting legally or not is the lack of professionalism in the way the boards and management relate to each other. This leads to a kind of a context that plays out in the public and which helps no one in particular but affects the industry. It is apparent there are sour grapes and each party is using different strategies and legal provisions/gaps to settle scores. I agree with one of the contributors that upholding good faith in all dealings is crucial. If involved parties feel that there are differences that need intervention by other stakeholders to resolve them, then let them involve them if the source of dispute has to do with real issues and not personal. Otherwise, then nothing will ever work so long as personality clashes take centre stage and not even the laws or the constitution will resolve. We must embrace the spirit of constitutionalism because even the law is an "ass" and legal interpretations will not always solve issues BUT, the law/legal provisions are important to offer guidance. Human beings us included will always try to wriggle and find those provisions that favour them. So in this particular case, whether the board or the minister is right is subject to who is interpreting what and their world view and at the end of the day, there is a stalemate. Jane -----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+jthuo=amwik.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+jthuo=amwik.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Barrack Otieno Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 4:44 PM To: jthuo@amwik.org Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: [!! SPAM] Re: [kictanet] Poghisio Flouting The Law in The CCK Tussle-byDMakali While at this subject, its a pity we are playing safe, leaders at key state organisations should come out boldly and state the challenges they are facing if any, it does us no good to be gossiping or listening to grapevine, I wonder why we don't invoke the law during the numerous cocktails we have, let's uphold good faith in all our dealings and stop playing cards under the table as the late Hon. Wamalwa challenged the leaders. On 4/20/11, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jthuo%40amwik.org The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Jane, could you perhaps, as a consumer, make a judgement call? Recall part of CCK's mandate gives it certain obligations to the consumer? Let us not be drawn into interpretation of the law (or start hair splitting how Mr Njoroge did not score 70% - BTW I'd personally like to know how he did NOT score 70%). As consumers - what is our word? Out there Wanjiku is oblivious of the battle raging and it is Wanjiku who will carry the day when it comes to operators' continued relevance and existence...but alas, Wanjiku is NOT on this mailing list and does not read the Business Daily (never mind the Nairobi Star). What does the A in KICTANET stand for? Sorry, but I am yet to be convinced that the Minister is flouting the law - lets remember that the law is an ass sometimes. On 20/04/2011, Jane Thuo <jthuo@amwik.org> wrote:
-- Francis Hook +254 733 504561
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Francis Hook <francis.hook@gmail.com> wrote:
It is difficult to understand when the CCK was named African regulator of the year ~18 months ago! -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
participants (7)
-
Barrack Otieno -
Eng. Wainaina Mungai -
Francis Hook -
Grace Githaiga -
Jane Thuo -
McTim -
muriuki mureithi