@Kivuva, I do follow the PS around the middle class way - on twitter @Bantigo but it hasnt worked :-) @ Rigia, the USF thing had not worked since the board had not been appointed and gazetted. Perhaps now it will take off successfully. walu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Kivuva <[email protected]> To: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fw: [ISOC_KE] allAfrica.com: Kenya: Poghisio Appoints USF Board Members It seems the same names are recycled over and over again. The article says we were asked to apply and refused. Did anybody see such an offer? Walu, you should up your lobbying. Make sure you have the minister's and PS's ears. You've seen how some follow the PS like flies? Those are the fruits On 24/02/2013, Walubengo J <[email protected]> wrote:

How comes me and Yawe never read our names on some of these boards? :-)

walu

----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Kelvin Githira <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 9:07 AM Subject: [ISOC_KE] allAfrica.com: Kenya: Poghisio Appoints USF Board Members

http://allafrica.com/stories/201302230595.html

Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list [email protected] http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva For Business Development Transworld Computer Channels Cel: 0722402248 twitter.com/lordmwesh transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 5:57 AM, stephen Mutoro <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Walu, Sorry to intercept your communication. This is one other issue (USF) that MOIC team will never succeed. How can you in all fairness ask for say up to Sh500M p.a from an MSP/MNO and then they have no representation on USF Board and therefore no say on how "their" money is used?

Once it is paid in to the fund, it is USF money. It would be like saying that after Safaricom pays taxes it should be able to say how those taxes get spent! Why would a consumer group want to put the fox in charge of the henhouse?

The easier part is to gazette the names, the harder part is to get money into the "Fund". Days when people who own no means of production, in whatever sector, purporting to set radical rules are long gone.

Universal Service is not a radical rule, it has been THE dominant paradigm amongst telecom regulators globally for decades.

Regrettably, again, if an MSP/MNO pays such an mount annually, it ups its cost of doing business. Who eventually shoulders such costs?? You and I as consumers.

correct, and if telecom services reach 100% of the population, then the entire citizenry benefits, including consumers. -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel

Dear McTim I think USF is a great vehicle. It has worked well in Rwanda and Uganda, and a similar system brought telephony to rural areas in the US.The only issue is the potential exposure to corruption. When Kenya's USF is set up, we do need to have safeguards in place to keep track of the accounting, and make sure that the monies are being used to improve connectivity. Based on my research on the Safaricome Digital Villages program, that may not be a guarantee. The pashas are going better, but we need accountability and transparency on the use of the USF funds. Kind regards, Warigia On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:10 AM, McTim <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 5:57 AM, stephen Mutoro <[email protected]> wrote:

...

Hi Walu, Sorry to intercept your communication. This is one other issue (USF) that MOIC team will never succeed. How can you in all fairness ask for say up to Sh500M p.a from an MSP/MNO and then they have no representation on USF Board and therefore no say on how "their" money is used?

Once it is paid in to the fund, it is USF money. It would be like saying that after Safaricom pays taxes it should be able to say how those taxes get spent!

Why would a consumer group want to put the fox in charge of the henhouse?

...

The easier part is to gazette the names, the harder part is to get money into the "Fund". Days when people who own no means of production, in whatever sector, purporting to set radical rules are long gone.

Universal Service is not a radical rule, it has been THE dominant paradigm amongst telecom regulators globally for decades.

...

Regrettably, again, if an MSP/MNO pays such an mount annually, it ups its cost of doing business. Who eventually shoulders such costs?? You and I as consumers.

correct, and if telecom services reach 100% of the population, then the entire citizenry benefits, including consumers.

-- Cheers,

McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Dr. Warigia Bowman Assistant Professor Clinton School of Public Service University of Arkansas [email protected] http://democratizingegypt.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------- View my research on my SSRN Author page: http://ssrn.com/author=1479660 --------------------------------------------------

Dear listers, As an old student of ICT regulation, I beg to differ with Mr. Mutoro on the issue of USF. The debate on the role of regulator and the separation of the roles of (government,operators and regulator) is reasonably well settled globally. The WTO, GATS Reference Paper defines “Independent Regulator” as ‘separate from, and not accountable to, any supplier of basic telecommunications services. The decision of and the procedures used by regulators shall be impartial with respect to all market participants’. EU directive 97/51 requires the establishment of national regulatory agencies and puts the condition that these: ‘shall be distinct from and functionally independent of all organizations providing telecommunications networks, equipments and services’. However, “independence” from government does not mean independence from laws and policies of a country[1]. The regulator would act at arms length from the government but will work closely with all relevant government departments, including on international negotiations[2]. [1]World Bank, Telecommunications Regulation Handbook, Module  1 [2]UK Communications White Paper,http://www.dti.gov.uk In our case in Kenya, the policy on USF is contained in Gazette Notice no.2431 dated 31st March,2006, Section 8.4 which was finalised after extensive public consultations, including a final stakeholders meeting attended by over 200 delegates which considered all inputs by stakeholders. The Kenya Communications( Amendment ) 2008, Section 84 merely concretizes the ICT  policy guidelines which were agreed by all stakeholders. As clearly stated in KCA 2008,Section 84K, apart from licensees, there are four(4) other sources of USF and I wonder if it is reasonable to demand that each contributor be represented in the Universal Service Advisory Council while  KCA 2008,section 102A clearly outlines  the composition of the body.  CCK is directly funded by operators(much more than USF) BUT it would be very strange if operators were granted positions in the CCK Board because of the " money" they contributed and the need to ensure their money is well spent.  Mixing the roles of "Regulation" and "operations" , however well intentioned , will result in "Regulatory Capture" to the great  detriment of the very consumers we are trying to protect.  More background material may be found in World Bank publication "Implementing Reforms in the Telecommunications Sector- Lessons from Experience" John Kariuki ________________________________ From: stephen Mutoro <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]>; "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, 25 February 2013, 13:57 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fw: [ISOC_KE] allAfrica.com: Kenya: Poghisio Appoints USF Board Members Hi Walu, Sorry to intercept your communication. This is one other issue (USF) that MOIC team will never succeed. How can you in all fairness ask for say up to Sh500M p.a from an MSP/MNO and then they have no representation on USF Board and therefore no say on how "their" money is used? The easier part is to gazette the names, the harder part is to get money into the "Fund". Days when people who own no means of production, in whatever sector, purporting to set radical rules are long gone. Regrettably, again, if an MSP/MNO pays such an mount annually, it ups its cost of doing business. Who eventually shoulders such costs?? You and I as consumers. Why is it so difficult for people at MOIC to engage 'stakeholders'? Can't wait to see new faces at the would be State Department (Ministry) in charge of Information and Communications. Stephen Mutoro www.cofek.co.ke ________________________________ From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fw: [ISOC_KE] allAfrica.com: Kenya: Poghisio Appoints USF Board Members @Kivuva, I do follow the PS around the middle class way - on twitter @Bantigo but it hasnt worked :-) @ Rigia, the USF thing had not worked since the board had not been appointed and gazetted. Perhaps now it will take off successfully. walu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Kivuva <[email protected]> To: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fw: [ISOC_KE] allAfrica.com: Kenya: Poghisio Appoints USF Board Members It seems the same names are recycled over and over again. The article says we were asked to apply and refused. Did anybody see such an offer? Walu, you should up your lobbying. Make sure you have the minister's and PS's ears. You've seen how some follow the PS like flies? Those are the fruits On 24/02/2013, Walubengo J <[email protected]> wrote:

How comes me and Yawe never read our names on some of these boards? :-)

walu

----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Kelvin Githira <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday,

February 24, 2013 9:07 AM

Subject: [ISOC_KE] allAfrica.com: Kenya: Poghisio Appoints USF Board Members

http://allafrica.com/stories/201302230595.html

Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list [email protected] http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva For Business Development Transworld Computer Channels Cel: 0722402248 twitter.com/lordmwesh transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/smutoro%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngethe.kariuki2007%40y... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

Well said. Regards, Gilda Odera On Feb 25, 2013, at 10:13 PM, John Kariuki <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear listers, As an old student of ICT regulation, I beg to differ with Mr. Mutoro on the issue of USF. The debate on the role of regulator and the separation of the roles of (government,operators and regulator) is reasonably well settled globally.

The WTO, GATS Reference Paper defines “Independent Regulator” as ‘separate from, and not accountable to, any supplier of basic telecommunications services. The decision of and the procedures used by regulators shall be impartial with respect to all market participants’. EU directive 97/51 requires the establishment of national regulatory agencies and puts the condition that these: ‘shall be distinct from and functionally independent of all organizations providing telecommunications networks, equipments and services’. However, “independence” from government does not mean independence from laws and policies of a country[1]. The regulator would act at arms length from the government but will work closely with all relevant government departments, including on international negotiations[2]. [1] World Bank, Telecommunications Regulation Handbook, Module 1 [2] UK Communications White Paper,http://www.dti.gov.uk

In our case in Kenya, the policy on USF is contained in Gazette Notice no.2431 dated 31st March,2006, Section 8.4 which was finalised after extensive public consultations, including a final stakeholders meeting attended by over 200 delegates which considered all inputs by stakeholders. The Kenya Communications( Amendment ) 2008, Section 84 merely concretizes the ICT policy guidelines which were agreed by all stakeholders. As clearly stated in KCA 2008,Section 84K, apart from licensees, there are four(4) other sources of USF and I wonder if it is reasonable to demand that each contributor be represented in the Universal Service Advisory Council while KCA 2008,section 102A clearly outlines the composition of the body.

CCK is directly funded by operators(much more than USF) BUT it would be very strange if operators were granted positions in the CCK Board because of the " money" they contributed and the need to ensure their money is well spent.

Mixing the roles of "Regulation" and "operations" , however well intentioned , will result in "Regulatory Capture" to the great detriment of the very consumers we are trying to protect.

More background material may be found in World Bank publication "Implementing Reforms in the Telecommunications Sector- Lessons from Experience"

John Kariuki From: stephen Mutoro <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]>; "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, 25 February 2013, 13:57 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fw: [ISOC_KE] allAfrica.com: Kenya: Poghisio Appoints USF Board Members

Hi Walu, Sorry to intercept your communication. This is one other issue (USF) that MOIC team will never succeed. How can you in all fairness ask for say up to Sh500M p.a from an MSP/MNO and then they have no representation on USF Board and therefore no say on how "their" money is used? The easier part is to gazette the names, the harder part is to get money into the "Fund". Days when people who own no means of production, in whatever sector, purporting to set radical rules are long gone. Regrettably, again, if an MSP/MNO pays such an mount annually, it ups its cost of doing business. Who eventually shoulders such costs?? You and I as consumers. Why is it so difficult for people at MOIC to engage 'stakeholders'? Can't wait to see new faces at the would be State Department (Ministry) in charge of Information and Communications.

Stephen Mutoro www.cofek.co.ke

From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fw: [ISOC_KE] allAfrica.com: Kenya: Poghisio Appoints USF Board Members

@Kivuva,

I do follow the PS around the middle class way - on twitter @Bantigo but it hasnt worked :-)

@ Rigia, the USF thing had not worked since the board had not been appointed and gazetted. Perhaps now it will take off successfully.

walu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: Kivuva <[email protected]> To: Walubengo J <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fw: [ISOC_KE] allAfrica.com: Kenya: Poghisio Appoints USF Board Members

It seems the same names are recycled over and over again.

The article says we were asked to apply and refused. Did anybody see such an offer?

Walu, you should up your lobbying. Make sure you have the minister's and PS's ears. You've seen how some follow the PS like flies? Those are the fruits

On 24/02/2013, Walubengo J <[email protected]> wrote:

...

How comes me and Yawe never read our names on some of these boards? :-)

walu

----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Kelvin Githira <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 9:07 AM Subject: [ISOC_KE] allAfrica.com: Kenya: Poghisio Appoints USF Board Members

http://allafrica.com/stories/201302230595.html

Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list [email protected] http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva For Business Development Transworld Computer Channels Cel: 0722402248 twitter.com/lordmwesh transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/godera%40skyweb.co.ke

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.