This is correct Walu.

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On 12/5/15, Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> @Karanja,
> You are very right about little LOCAL research on this issue.
> However, I want to say that the local researchers exist, but the local
> players are VERY hesitant to engage.  For example, 6weeks ago, I wrote to
> all the local actors (Operators, Content Providers, Regulators, etc) around
> these issues and I regret to say that ONLY one operator (Safaricom) and the
> regulator (CA) cared to respond.
> It then becomes extremely difficult to counter foreign supplied data with
> 'local' data - that is not accessible because the data owners are not
> responsive. Ironically, if these data was requested by multinational
> researchers say from Mcainsey, they are likely to be treated better.
> Until and unless we start believing and trusting our own researchers, Africa
> will remain in awe of foreign data and research. We must explore ways that
> would enable operators, content providers and others to open up to local
> researchers - rather than just to foreign researchers.
> walu.
>
>
>       From: Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>  To: jwalu@yahoo.com
> Cc: Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com>
>  Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 4:13 PM
>  Subject: [kictanet] Net Neutrality Debate Observations
>
> The NetNeutralityDebate in KenyaI have been keenly following the debate on
> NetNeutralityglobally and especially the Kenyan one. The events of the last
> three weeks kicking off at the Internetgovernance Forum in Brazil and the
> KICTANet mailing list debate have been key and it is clear to me:
>    - There is a huge gulf between research numberspresented in defence or
> opposition towards Free Basics/Internet.org in thedeveloping world.
>    - There is a limiting simplistic targeting of Facebook as the force
> ofevil in this debate.
> Inthe period after the IGF, discussions in Kenya and publications have moved
> more towardsFacebook’s Free Basics; some objective and critical, some
> clearly as generalattacks on Facebook as a company and Free Basics as a
> product. It wasabsolutely great for Grace Githaiga to bring the Facebook
> Policy team in toensure official positions are clarified and the members’
> questions would beanswered.
>
>
> Myobservations
> 1.    The Net Neutrality debate we are having is quitelimited. The focus on
> Free Basics is very much in order and I hope this kind ofenergy can go to
> other contentious NN issues like protocol and peering discrimination (like
> when Zuku caps yourdownload speeds when you are downloading Game of Thrones
> from Pirate Sites orwhen streaming live matches) and IPdiscrimination (when
> coffee joints, universities or organizations blockspecific websites like
> YouTube, Facebook under the guise of productivity,obscenity or heavy-traffic
> balance). These are top-of the head examples. 2.    Our Kenyan primary
> research on this area is asham! I am saying this as a researcher myself at
> Strathmore Law School. That iswhy we cannot push back on the numbers and
> data presented to us.  Mozilla, Facebook, Stanford Uni all presentedsome
> data. We have some opinion polls here and there but no substantive workhas
> been done locally. I ask all of us to get our hands dirty and get the
> dataout from the users in our country so we can have a solid case in
> thesedebates.  We have a huge task ahead of usif we are to step into the
> global table of serious discussion. I cringed tohear an African participant
> at the IGF say that Africans should be included inthe table discussing NN
> and issues affecting Africa and Internet. This issomeone who had flown over
> 10,000 miles to Brazil yet claimed Africans (thegenerality) should be
> included in the discussion. I don’t think nobody everblocked someone off
> from participating in the pre-IGF events and surely,playing that
> racism/underdeveloped/Africa/Poverty card is so lame.  Unless we conduct our
> research, we willcontinue being consumers of knowledge, or whatever is
> presented as such. 3.    The organizations which deal directly withmasses of
> end user are critical in giving feedback to the listers: ElimuTv forexample
> is a good case. Most listers here are trapped in the
> {Nairobi-globalcapitals’ conferences} and would profit from first hand
> experiences from thecounties. 4.    In Reconcilingpolitical and economic
> goals in the net neutrality debate (PDF), the authors argue convincingly for
> combining instruments towards an openInternet that upholds Net Neutrailty.
> As it has always been clear, access tothe Internet is not a simple
> technological issue that can fixed just by addingmore tech to the problem.
> One more cable won’t solve the access problem. Definitelythe tech is core
> but freedom of speech, economic independence, language issuesand political
> participation at the local level matter as much.
> CIPIT (at Strathmore) looks forward to partnering with all those who
> areinterested in this topic in conducting primary research, forums and
> policy making.Blatant attack on Facebook or Google or Apple or whatever as a
> company is veryeasy. Anyone can do it. However, serious matters like this
> need our critical energiesto offer credible alternatives to connect our
> people to the Internet.
> TL: DR: No, just read :) ---Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja | PGP: 0x1529552F
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 4, 2015, at 3:37 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
> Send kictanet mailing list submissions to
>  kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to
>      KICTANet (waudo siganga)
>
> From: waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com>
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to
> KICTANet
> Date: December 4, 2015 at 3:25:46 PM EAT
> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>
>
> This looks useful. Kivuva/Hussein please comment. Looks like schools can be
> able to access useful content without what the Bamba people call
> "kunyanyaswa na kukatwakatwa kila mwezi" On Fri, Dec 4, 2015, at 02:46 PM,
> Ebele Okobi via kictanet wrote:
> That’s fantastic-education content is some of the most sought after for Free
> Basics.A couple of things-Can you please have your team take a look at
> Platform, and the technical specifications,
> here? https://developers.facebook.com/docs/internet-org/platform-technical-guidelinesThen
> they can submit, here: https://developers.facebook.com/docs/internet-org I
> will also connect you directly with our EMEA content lead!Thanks so much for
> writing, and for the work that you do.Best,
> Ebele <6F096681-9A34-452C-A5CD-1D0E4C64A463[1].png> Ebele Okobi | Head of
> Public Policy, Africam. +44 (0) 771 156 13152 Stephen St | London | W1T
> 1AN
> ebeleokobi@fb.com    From: Network of non- formal Educational institutions
> <nnfeischools@yahoo.com>
> Date: Friday, December 4, 2015 at 5:17 AM
> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> Cc: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com>
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to
> KICTANet Good morning to all Facebook has made a  positive move towards
> helping the poor communitiesWe offer secondary education on TV and use
> Facebook to push some videos and interaction. However a good number of our
> student have said they are not on Facebook because they can  not afford
> internetWe  would wish to be included in the program. How do we go about
> it Jane MuthigaDirector Elimu TV07231444259Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Ebele Okobi via
> kictanet<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:Thanks so much for these
> questions! Please see below, in
> line.<6F096681-9A34-452C-A5CD-1D0E4C64A463[2].png> Ebele Okobi | Head of
> Public Policy, Africam. +44 (0) 771 156 13152 Stephen St | London | W1T
> 1AN
> ebeleokobi@fb.com   From: kictanet <FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a
> possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original
> URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing click here.> on
> behalf of Sidney Ochieng via kictanet <FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a
> possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original
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> Reply-To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <FastMail WARNING: URL text
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> Date: Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 1:05 PM
> To: Ebele Okobi <FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript
> attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original URL='javascript:return'. For
> more information on phishing click here.>
> Cc: Sidney Ochieng <FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible
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> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to
> KICTANet Ebele, I'm still taking time to go through everything is your
> rather exhaustive reply but I do have a couple of questions:
> >From your participation guidelines:
>    - In addition, secure content is not supported and may not load.
>
>    - Any data (e.g., proxy requests) or reporting we provide is deemed
> Facebook confidential information and cannot be used by you for any
> advertising purposes or shared with third parties.
>   Why isn't secure content explicitly supported?I am checking with our EMEA
> content partnerships team; will get back soonest.What is the rationale for
> the data and reporting condition?Per my exhaustive reply, ;-), we do not
> allow any advertising on Free Basics, and we do not allow developers to
> violate the privacy rights of users of Free Basics-see highlighted portion.
> We do not want developers creating sites that profit off of Free Basics
> users, or that use their data to advertise, or that share their data with
> third parties. Also while the while the FAQs on that page say different
> there's this condition: What do you mean when you say the FAQs on that
> page “say different”? Can you please specify what you mean when you say the
> FAQs “say different”? Thanks-once you do, will get back soonest.
> Developer participation on the Free Basics Platform, including the
> information submitted with your application, is otherwise governed by our
> standard legal terms. Collectively, our standard legal terms and these
> supplemental terms are the entire agreement between you and Facebook
> relating to Free Basics, and any terms of use for your service will not
> apply to Facebook.
>  Those legal terms contain this:
> For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and
> videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission,
> subject to your privacy andapplication settings: you grant us a
> non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license
> to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP
> License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your
> account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not
> deleted it.
>  So what takes precedence, the FAQ or legal terms? What does this mean for
> content producers who make a living of that content if Facebook chooses to
> exercise this right?? Finally Nanjira makes an important point in her post
> here(FastMail WARNING: URL text and host don't match, possible phishing
> attempt. URL disabled. Original
> URL='https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nanjira.com_2015_11_taking-2Dfree-2Dbasics-2Din-2Dkenya-2Don-2Da-2Dspin_&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Cp8Zhr_tnbaqOM4LZRPNAn7V_mxOKDAh96-gN1NaFa4&s=tamyx3t5M9AFkipSkz16d77shVWhSd5eWqL4cGdnWkc&e='.
> Original
> text='http://nanjira.com/2015/11/taking-free-basics-in-kenya-on-a-spin/'.
> For more information on phishing click here.) about how the platform, in
> Kenya at least, seems set up for consumption. Why is this? Was this an
> explicit decision or a side-effect of the chosen platforms? What is Facebook
> doing to encourage people to provide content to these sites?Platform is
> actually set up for people to create, but Free Basics is meant to be a
> light-weight product that operators are willing to provide for free, for
> people new to the Internet. Per previously—Free Basics is meant to be an
> on-ramp to the Internet. It’s not meant to be a place where people stay. The
> kind of Internet access that supports content creation requires all kinds of
> inputs (electricity, broadband, infrastructure) that Facebook alone is not
> solely equipped to provide in 192 countries around the world. It’s no
> coincidence that the countries with the most creators are countries with a)
> the most resources and b) the biggest government investment in
> infrastructure. As you know, it’s not Facebook that charges for Internet
> access in developing countries-it’s operators. Are operators willing to
> provide unlimited access, for free, to people? Should they? I think the
> primary thing to remember, per my email is that Free Basics is not, at all,
> meant to be a holistic answer to a complex issue. It is only meant to be a
> short/medium-term way of addressing two very specific linked barriers to
> access-awareness and cost. Looking forward to hearing your responses and I
> will be adding other questions as I go through your response(s). On 3
> December 2015 at 13:00, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <FastMail WARNING: URL
> text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled.
> Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing
> click here.> wrote:
> Hi Ebele,Many thanks for your responses. I have a somewhat dumb question,
> some might have been partly addressed.1. What role does the facebook public
> policy team play in Africa?2. What led to the creation of the team?3. What
> are facebooks plans regarding promotion of  local content and extending
> connectivity to marginalized areas?4. What is Facebooks defination of Net
> Neutrality and what is its position on the same?Please educate meThanksOn
> Dec 3, 2015 9:56 AM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" <FastMail WARNING: URL text
> contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled.
> Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing
> click here.> wrote:
> Zero-rating plans  are indeed fully compatible and offered along with paid
> plans-they are just one of many options, and per my response below,
> zero-rating that is paid for by operator must exist together with paid plans
> because if not, the operator can't survive.
>
> Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africam. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 10 Brock
> Street | London | NW1 3FGFastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible
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> On Dec 3, 2015, at 5:57 AM, waudo siganga via kictanet <FastMail WARNING:
> URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL
> disabled. Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing
> click here.> wrote:
>
> A quick one for Kivuva, Hussein, Ebele - Please clarify is this Zero-rating
> incompatible with, i.e. mutually exclusive to paid services? Why cant they
> operate TOGETHER. Waudo  On Thu, Dec 3, 2015, at 01:52 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva
> wrote:
> There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter on giving
> people free access to Facebook as if it was water or electricity: FastMail
> WARNING: URL text and host don't match, possible phishing attempt. URL
> disabled. Original
> URL='https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2015_12_02_max-5Fzuckerberg-5Freply-5Fletter_&d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=sTudx9RKEpMTIDrooq2cQ0jfcJSIgIeFLOoxc6FzFHg&e='.
> Original
> text='http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/'.
> For more information on phishing click here.,On Dec 3, 2015 1:05
> AM, FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your
> machine. URL disabled. Original URL='javascript:return'. For more
> information on phishing click here.wrote:
> Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is what
> has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to come
> over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality.But find
> my attempt inline:On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <FastMail WARNING:
> URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL
> disabled. Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing
> click here.> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:
>>
>> 1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been concluded
>> that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one
>> in not very good standing..This has not been agreed upon. We would
>> probably not get an answer to whether it is good or bad. But some
>> countries have determined and outlawed zero rating,  some analyze zero
>> rating requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero
>> rating.> 2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating
>> infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users access to the
>> Internet". Are other service providers, including those offering "full"
>> Internet Access at a fee, stopped or hindered from offering their services
>> when some companies offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at the
>> same time?This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling
>> point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package,
>> you can access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like
>> the idea. But what are the root cause for using zero rating? Can we make
>> the Internet affordable?> 3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because
>> in my use of Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet"
>> i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services and you are
>> unable as you get a message that you cannot access that site/service from
>> your country, meaning many services providers already practise packet
>> filtering.True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed,
>> and there are different legislation from country to country on those
>> aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting,
>> especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises unlimited Internet
>> access at $$$, then when you start using more resources than they had
>> anticipated, they tighten your pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol
>> blocking was banned by EU in 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to
>> Skype because it hurts voice, calling, and text-messaging revenue.So part
>> of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is to
>> protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do
>> whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community.> 4. Hussein
>> gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably leaves out a very
>> critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where ALL service
>> providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and consumers
>> are left to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers that decide
>> which companies and services survive and which wilt along the way. Why
>> choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or business
>> models?Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In
>> the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should
>> have access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit
>> consumer choice?At another level, consumers are not usually very
>> knowledgeable in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm
>> ready to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another country
>> provides reliable affordable broadband, then the one with affordable
>> broadband will experience faster economic growth. This is just an
>> hypothesis.> 5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of
>> Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major
>> impediment to the spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with
>> opposition to free (ok "free" as Hussein corrected me) services even if
>> they are only offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.Cost and
>> access are still very relevant especially in our region of the world. That
>> was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And there are
>> very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing,
>> competition, usf, infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really
>> disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the
>> Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?>
>> On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially the
>> Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have been
>> accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings if
>> I got to know how to connect for free.And Facebook likes these case
>> studies. I heard them happily say how they are helping women chamas
>> organise themselves, and also organise civil activism to foster democracy
>> in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)>
>> I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this
>> area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance
>> if my questions do not sound sophisticated.
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> Waudo
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
>>>
>>> We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list in a
>>> long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this
>>> timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the
>>> zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook are fascinated
>>> by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously
>>> joining this debate.
>>>
>>> I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
>>>
>>> 2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
>>>
>>> 3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any
>>> connectivity infrastructure?
>>>
>>> 4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those
>>> with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What
>>> percentage of your target market has access to smart phones?
>>>
>>> 5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs welcomed
>>> to the party?
>>>
>>> 6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
>>>
>>> 7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
>>>
>>> 8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to
>>> suggest that it is  giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few
>>> vanilla websites the Internet?
>>>
>>> 9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free
>>> internet to everyone?
>>>
>>> 10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion of
>>> those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is
>>> Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the
>>> whole wealth of knowledge and information that the Internet provides?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Mwendwa Kivuva
>
>
>
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-- 
Barrack O. Otieno
+254721325277
+254-20-2498789
Skype: barrack.otieno
http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/

@Baudouin,
I would think its a cultural challenge. Locally, very little premium is put on research. Sorry, let me rephrase, very little (public) decisions are based on research in Kenya and generally in sub-saharan africa.
Dont get me wrong, we do have serious research outfits and capabilities in Africa..and in Kenya examples are (Coffee Research, KEMRI, ILRI, KENET, IEA, KEFRI, UoN-HIV/Aids research..the list is endless).  But guess what, who uses (values) their research output? Foreign governments. Guess because they fund most of the research projects within these entities.
So locally we have low value for research output, and subsequently lack the institutional culture, trust and relationships that are necessary to  effectively execute public policy research (without foreign support). 
This is might change though if the NACOSTI is anything to go by.
walu.
      From: Baudouin Schombe <baudouin.schombe@gmail.com>
 To: Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> 
Cc: Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com>
 Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2015 12:50 PM
 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Net Neutrality Debate Observation
   
Based on your observation, how can we consider such an attitude? Is a crisis of confidence? or mistrust? If so, why? and if not why?
2015-12-05 8:41 GMT+01:00 Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>:

@Karanja,
You are very right about little LOCAL research on this issue.  
However, I want to say that the local researchers exist, but the local players are VERY hesitant to engage.  For example, 6weeks ago, I wrote to all the local actors (Operators, Content Providers, Regulators, etc) around these issues and I regret to say that ONLY one operator (Safaricom) and the regulator (CA) cared to respond.
It then becomes extremely difficult to counter foreign supplied data with 'local' data - that is not accessible because the data owners are not responsive. Ironically, if these data was requested by multinational researchers say from Mcainsey, they are likely to be treated better.
Until and unless we start believing and trusting our own researchers, Africa will remain in awe of foreign data and research. We must explore ways that would enable operators, content providers and others to open up to local researchers - rather than just to foreign researchers.
walu.


      From: Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
 To: jwalu@yahoo.com 
Cc: Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com>
 Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 4:13 PM
 Subject: [kictanet] Net Neutrality Debate Observations
   
The NetNeutralityDebate in KenyaI have been keenly following the debate on NetNeutralityglobally and especially the Kenyan one. The events of the last three weeks kicking off at the Internetgovernance Forum in Brazil and the KICTANet mailing list debate have been key and it is clear to me:   
   - There is a huge gulf between research numberspresented in defence or opposition towards Free Basics/Internet.org in thedeveloping world.
   - There is a limiting simplistic targeting of Facebook as the force ofevil in this debate. 
Inthe period after the IGF, discussions in Kenya and publications have moved more towardsFacebook’s Free Basics; some objective and critical, some clearly as generalattacks on Facebook as a company and Free Basics as a product. It wasabsolutely great for Grace Githaiga to bring the Facebook Policy team in toensure official positions are clarified and the members’ questions would beanswered.


Myobservations
1.    The Net Neutrality debate we are having is quitelimited. The focus on Free Basics is very much in order and I hope this kind ofenergy can go to other contentious NN issues like protocol and peering discrimination (like when Zuku caps yourdownload speeds when you are downloading Game of Thrones from Pirate Sites orwhen streaming live matches) and IPdiscrimination (when coffee joints, universities or organizations blockspecific websites like YouTube, Facebook under the guise of productivity,obscenity or heavy-traffic balance). These are top-of the head examples. 2.    Our Kenyan primary research on this area is asham! I am saying this as a researcher myself at Strathmore Law School. That iswhy we cannot push back on the numbers and data presented to us.  Mozilla, Facebook, Stanford Uni all presentedsome data. We have some opinion polls here and there but no substantive workhas been done locally. I ask all of us to get our hands dirty and get the dataout from the users in our country so we can have a solid case in thesedebates.  We have a huge task ahead of usif we are to step into the global table of serious discussion. I cringed tohear an African participant at the IGF say that Africans should be included inthe table discussing NN and issues affecting Africa and Internet. This issomeone who had flown over 10,000 miles to Brazil yet claimed Africans (thegenerality) should be included in the discussion. I don’t think nobody everblocked someone off from participating in the pre-IGF events and surely,playing that racism/underdeveloped/Africa/Poverty card is so lame.  Unless we conduct our research, we willcontinue being consumers of knowledge, or whatever is presented as such. 3.    The organizations which deal directly withmasses of end user are critical in giving feedback to the listers: ElimuTv forexample is a good case. Most listers here are trapped in the {Nairobi-globalcapitals’ conferences} and would profit from first hand experiences from thecounties. 4.    In Reconcilingpolitical and economic goals in the net neutrality debate (PDF), the authors argue convincingly for combining instruments towards an openInternet that upholds Net Neutrailty. As it has always been clear, access tothe Internet is not a simple technological issue that can fixed just by addingmore tech to the problem. One more cable won’t solve the access problem. Definitelythe tech is core but freedom of speech, economic independence, language issuesand political participation at the local level matter as much. 
CIPIT (at Strathmore) looks forward to partnering with all those who areinterested in this topic in conducting primary research, forums and policy making.Blatant attack on Facebook or Google or Apple or whatever as a company is veryeasy. Anyone can do it. However, serious matters like this need our critical energiesto offer credible alternatives to connect our people to the Internet.
TL: DR: No, just read :) ---Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja | PGP: 0x1529552F




On Dec 4, 2015, at 3:37 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to
     KICTANet (waudo siganga)

From: waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet
Date: December 4, 2015 at 3:25:46 PM EAT
To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>


This looks useful. Kivuva/Hussein please comment. Looks like schools can be able to access useful content without what the Bamba people call "kunyanyaswa na kukatwakatwa kila mwezi" On Fri, Dec 4, 2015, at 02:46 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet wrote:
That’s fantastic-education content is some of the most sought after for Free Basics.A couple of things-Can you please have your team take a look at Platform, and the technical specifications, here? https://developers.facebook.com/docs/internet-org/platform-technical-guidelinesThen they can submit, here: https://developers.facebook.com/docs/internet-org I will also connect you directly with our EMEA content lead!Thanks so much for writing, and for the work that you do.Best, Ebele <6F096681-9A34-452C-A5CD-1D0E4C64A463[1].png> Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africam. +44 (0) 771 156 13152 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN 
ebeleokobi@fb.com    From: Network of non- formal Educational institutions <nnfeischools@yahoo.com>
Date: Friday, December 4, 2015 at 5:17 AM
To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Cc: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet Good morning to all Facebook has made a  positive move towards helping the poor communitiesWe offer secondary education on TV and use Facebook to push some videos and interaction. However a good number of our student have said they are not on Facebook because they can  not afford internetWe  would wish to be included in the program. How do we go about it Jane MuthigaDirector Elimu TV07231444259Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:Thanks so much for these questions! Please see below, in line.<6F096681-9A34-452C-A5CD-1D0E4C64A463[2].png> Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africam. +44 (0) 771 156 13152 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN 
ebeleokobi@fb.com   From: kictanet <FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing click here.> on behalf of Sidney Ochieng via kictanet <FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing click here.>
Reply-To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing click here.>
Date: Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 1:05 PM
To: Ebele Okobi <FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing click here.>
Cc: Sidney Ochieng <FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing click here.>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet Ebele, I'm still taking time to go through everything is your rather exhaustive reply but I do have a couple of questions:
>From your participation guidelines:   
   - In addition, secure content is not supported and may not load. 
   
   - Any data (e.g., proxy requests) or reporting we provide is deemed Facebook confidential information and cannot be used by you for any advertising purposes or shared with third parties.
  Why isn't secure content explicitly supported?I am checking with our EMEA content partnerships team; will get back soonest.What is the rationale for the data and reporting condition?Per my exhaustive reply, ;-), we do not allow any advertising on Free Basics, and we do not allow developers to violate the privacy rights of users of Free Basics-see highlighted portion. We do not want developers creating sites that profit off of Free Basics users, or that use their data to advertise, or that share their data with third parties. Also while the while the FAQs on that page say different there's this condition: What do you mean when you say the FAQs on that page “say different”? Can you please specify what you mean when you say the FAQs “say different”? Thanks-once you do, will get back soonest. 
Developer participation on the Free Basics Platform, including the information submitted with your application, is otherwise governed by our standard legal terms. Collectively, our standard legal terms and these supplemental terms are the entire agreement between you and Facebook relating to Free Basics, and any terms of use for your service will not apply to Facebook.
 Those legal terms contain this:
For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy andapplication settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.
 So what takes precedence, the FAQ or legal terms? What does this mean for content producers who make a living of that content if Facebook chooses to exercise this right?? Finally Nanjira makes an important point in her post here(FastMail WARNING: URL text and host don't match, possible phishing attempt. URL disabled. Original URL='https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nanjira.com_2015_11_taking-2Dfree-2Dbasics-2Din-2Dkenya-2Don-2Da-2Dspin_&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Cp8Zhr_tnbaqOM4LZRPNAn7V_mxOKDAh96-gN1NaFa4&s=tamyx3t5M9AFkipSkz16d77shVWhSd5eWqL4cGdnWkc&e='. Original text='http://nanjira.com/2015/11/taking-free-basics-in-kenya-on-a-spin/'. For more information on phishing click here.) about how the platform, in Kenya at least, seems set up for consumption. Why is this? Was this an explicit decision or a side-effect of the chosen platforms? What is Facebook doing to encourage people to provide content to these sites?Platform is actually set up for people to create, but Free Basics is meant to be a light-weight product that operators are willing to provide for free, for people new to the Internet. Per previously—Free Basics is meant to be an on-ramp to the Internet. It’s not meant to be a place where people stay. The kind of Internet access that supports content creation requires all kinds of inputs (electricity, broadband, infrastructure) that Facebook alone is not solely equipped to provide in 192 countries around the world. It’s no coincidence that the countries with the most creators are countries with a) the most resources and b) the biggest government investment in infrastructure. As you know, it’s not Facebook that charges for Internet access in developing countries-it’s operators. Are operators willing to provide unlimited access, for free, to people? Should they? I think the primary thing to remember, per my email is that Free Basics is not, at all, meant to be a holistic answer to a complex issue. It is only meant to be a short/medium-term way of addressing two very specific linked barriers to access-awareness and cost. Looking forward to hearing your responses and I will be adding other questions as I go through your response(s). On 3 December 2015 at 13:00, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing click here.> wrote:
Hi Ebele,Many thanks for your responses. I have a somewhat dumb question, some might have been partly addressed.1. What role does the facebook public policy team play in Africa?2. What led to the creation of the team?3. What are facebooks plans regarding promotion of  local content and extending connectivity to marginalized areas?4. What is Facebooks defination of Net Neutrality and what is its position on the same?Please educate meThanksOn Dec 3, 2015 9:56 AM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" <FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing click here.> wrote:
Zero-rating plans  are indeed fully compatible and offered along with paid plans-they are just one of many options, and per my response below, zero-rating that is paid for by operator must exist together with paid plans because if not, the operator can't survive.

Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africam. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FGFastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing click here. 
On Dec 3, 2015, at 5:57 AM, waudo siganga via kictanet <FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing click here.> wrote:
 
A quick one for Kivuva, Hussein, Ebele - Please clarify is this Zero-rating incompatible with, i.e. mutually exclusive to paid services? Why cant they operate TOGETHER. Waudo  On Thu, Dec 3, 2015, at 01:52 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter on giving people free access to Facebook as if it was water or electricity: FastMail WARNING: URL text and host don't match, possible phishing attempt. URL disabled. Original URL='https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2015_12_02_max-5Fzuckerberg-5Freply-5Fletter_&d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=sTudx9RKEpMTIDrooq2cQ0jfcJSIgIeFLOoxc6FzFHg&e='. Original text='http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/'. For more information on phishing click here.,On Dec 3, 2015 1:05 AM, FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing click here.wrote: 
Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to come over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality.But find my attempt inline:On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing click here.> wrote:
>
> Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:
>  
> 1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been concluded that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one in not very good standing..This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an answer to whether it is good or bad. But some countries have determined and outlawed zero rating,  some analyze zero rating requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero rating.> 2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users access to the Internet". Are other service providers, including those offering "full" Internet Access at a fee, stopped or hindered from offering their services when some companies offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at the same time?This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package, you can access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like the idea. But what are the root cause for using zero rating? Can we make the Internet affordable?> 3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet" i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services and you are unable as you get a message that you cannot access that site/service from your country, meaning many services providers already practise packet filtering.True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed, and there are different legislation from country to country on those aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting, especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you start using more resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it hurts voice, calling, and text-messaging revenue.So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is to protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community.> 4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where ALL service providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and consumers are left to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers that decide which companies and services survive and which wilt along the way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or business models?Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should have access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit consumer choice?At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another country provides reliable affordable broadband, then the one with affordable broadband will experience faster economic growth. This is just an hypothesis.> 5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major impediment to the spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with opposition to free (ok "free" as Hussein corrected me) services even if they are only offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region of the world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And there are very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing, competition, usf, infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?>  
> On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially the Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings if I got to know how to connect for free.And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say how they are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also organise civil activism to foster democracy in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)>  
> I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance if my questions do not sound sophisticated.
>  
> Kind Regards,
> Waudo
>  
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
>>
>> We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list in a long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook are fascinated by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously joining this debate.
>>
>> I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
>>
>>  
>>
>> 1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
>>
>> 2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
>>
>> 3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any connectivity infrastructure? 
>>
>> 4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What percentage of your target market has access to smart phones?
>>
>> 5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs welcomed to the party?
>>
>> 6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
>>
>> 7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
>>
>> 8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to suggest that it is  giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few vanilla websites the Internet?
>>
>> 9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free internet to everyone?
>>
>> 10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion of those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the whole wealth of knowledge and information that the Internet provides? 
>>
>>  
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Mwendwa Kivuva



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