Hi Walu, What was the mandate of the Kenyan IPv6 Task Force? I hope it's not just another boardroom Task Force. I saw the following on FaceBook yesterday: "When Asia trained engineers Africa trained experts in debate. Can't fix roads by simply organizing stakeholder consultations."It can be further said that we can't fix IPv6 by simply appointing Task Forces. Let me explain why. The adoption of IPv6 should be driven, first by need, then by the entities responsible for assigning the IPs. I think it should be that simple. I still don't see why it needed a Task Force. Let me look at this from the simplest terms: I think the pace of adoption does not have to be driven by pressure from other sides of the planet, but by the RIRs, but still based on need. An RIR may shout from the rooftops that they have depleted their IPv4 space, but "allocation" and "assignment" are two different things, right? They may be over with their allocation, while the entities allocated those IPs haven't assigned all of them, and are still comfortable. Now, does the RIR start forcing the entities (mostly ISPs) to start using their IPv6 allocations? No. Time will come when the IPv6 space will start being utilized. I don't see how the deployment of IPv6 makes us "stay ahead"of anyone though. It's just an IP address. Staying ahead depends on economic factors, no? On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:28, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

Paul/Barrack,

I agree, dismal performance. And to imagine the rest of East Africa expects us to be leading on this front, it is truly a shameful performance. And that reminds me, the PS Ndemo did inaugurated the Kenyan IPv6 Task force 2yrs ago - of which I am a member but I will not name the others for security reasons

Perhaps, there could be some synergy with the ISOC_Ke guys on this to make sure Kenya stays in the forefront of promoting IPv6 usage.

walu.

--- On *Mon, 3/19/12, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>* wrote:

From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Status of IPv6 deployment in Kenya To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Monday, March 19, 2012, 12:16 PM

Thanks Paul.

Looking forwad to the ISOC_ke IP V6 program under your leadership.

Best Regards

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Paul M <paulitrix@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=paulitrix@gmail.com>

...

wrote:

Take a look at this page. Gives revealing but dismal statistics over the state of IPv6 in Kenya.

http://www.vyncke.org/ipv6status/detailed.php?country=ke

-- :-) Paul M

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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Mctim :-), Its always ZA, Egypt and Kenya so we need to slot ourselves somewhere in front :-) On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:

Thanks Walu and Wash,

Indeed we agreed as ISOC_Ke to work with all stakeholders including the taskforce we dont intend to re-invent the wheel, to set the ball rolling we are planning to begin IpV6 training programs under Pauls leadership in June, we will also have local celebrations on the same in June and we look forwad to working with local and regional organisations such as Afrinic and we look forwad to having you on board Walu as the Afrinic representative in the region. Wash i agree with the sentiments you are raising and Afrinic has very interesting presentations that demistify IpV6, we look forwad to wroking with them to clarify all this issues at the end of the day lets not remain behind as Walu says and let the people decide which way they want to go. Time is ripe for IPv6.

Cheers!

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Hi Walu,

What was the mandate of the Kenyan IPv6 Task Force? I hope it's not just another boardroom Task Force.

I saw the following on FaceBook yesterday: "When Asia trained engineers Africa trained experts in debate. Can't fix roads by simply organizing stakeholder consultations."It can be further said that we can't fix IPv6 by simply appointing Task Forces. Let me explain why. The adoption of IPv6 should be driven, first by need, then by the entities responsible for assigning the IPs. I think it should be that simple. I still don't see why it needed a Task Force.

Let me look at this from the simplest terms:

I think the pace of adoption does not have to be driven by pressure from other sides of the planet, but by the RIRs, but still based on need. An RIR may shout from the rooftops that they have depleted their IPv4 space, but "allocation" and "assignment" are two different things, right? They may be over with their allocation, while the entities allocated those IPs haven't assigned all of them, and are still comfortable. Now, does the RIR start forcing the entities (mostly ISPs) to start using their IPv6 allocations? No.

Time will come when the IPv6 space will start being utilized.

I don't see how the deployment of IPv6 makes us "stay ahead"of anyone though. It's just an IP address. Staying ahead depends on economic factors, no?

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:28, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

Paul/Barrack,

I agree, dismal performance. And to imagine the rest of East Africa expects us to be leading on this front, it is truly a shameful performance. And that reminds me, the PS Ndemo did inaugurated the Kenyan IPv6 Task force 2yrs ago - of which I am a member but I will not name the others for security reasons

Perhaps, there could be some synergy with the ISOC_Ke guys on this to make sure Kenya stays in the forefront of promoting IPv6 usage.

walu.

--- On *Mon, 3/19/12, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>* wrote:

From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Status of IPv6 deployment in Kenya To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Monday, March 19, 2012, 12:16 PM

Thanks Paul.

Looking forwad to the ISOC_ke IP V6 program under your leadership.

Best Regards

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Paul M <paulitrix@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=paulitrix@gmail.com>

...

wrote:

Take a look at this page. Gives revealing but dismal statistics over the state of IPv6 in Kenya.

http://www.vyncke.org/ipv6status/detailed.php?country=ke

-- :-) Paul M

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.

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On 3/19/12, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Walu,

What was the mandate of the Kenyan IPv6 Task Force? I hope it's not just another boardroom Task Force.

I saw the following on FaceBook yesterday: "When Asia trained engineers Africa trained experts in debate. Can't fix roads by simply organizing stakeholder consultations."It can be further said that we can't fix IPv6 by simply appointing Task Forces.

Tell that to the Koreans and Japanese, whose TFs have pushed them to to fore in v6 usage...a decade ago! In addition, AFNOG, et. al., have been training African engineers on v6 since 2005.

The adoption of IPv6 should be driven, first by need, then by the entities responsible for assigning the IPs. I think it should be that simple. I still don't see why it needed a Task Force.

Because as yet there is no "perceived need".

Let me look at this from the simplest terms:

I think the pace of adoption does not have to be driven by pressure from other sides of the planet, but by the RIRs,

The RIRs HAVE been leading on this for over a decade. but still based on need. An RIR

may shout from the rooftops that they have depleted their IPv4 space, but "allocation" and "assignment" are two different things, right?

No RIR has yet exhausted their IP4v space completely.

They may be over with their allocation, while the entities allocated those IPs haven't assigned all of them, and are still comfortable. Now, does the RIR start forcing the entities (mostly ISPs) to start using their IPv6 allocations? No.

As co-chair of the AfriNIC Policy Working Group, I would be happy to see you put forth a proposal to encourage v6 usage. However, I don't see how "forcing" folks would work. What "carrots" or "sticks" would you suggest? -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 13:01, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:

On 3/19/12, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi Walu,

What was the mandate of the Kenyan IPv6 Task Force? I hope it's not just another boardroom Task Force.

I saw the following on FaceBook yesterday: "When Asia trained engineers Africa trained experts in debate. Can't fix roads by simply organizing stakeholder consultations."It can be further said that we can't fix IPv6 by simply appointing Task Forces.

Tell that to the Koreans and Japanese, whose TFs have pushed them to to fore in v6 usage...a decade ago!

In addition, AFNOG, et. al., have been training African engineers on v6 since 2005.

...

The adoption of IPv6 should be driven, first by need, then by the entities responsible for assigning the IPs. I think it should be that simple. I still don't see why it needed a Task Force.

Because as yet there is no "perceived need".

...

Let me look at this from the simplest terms:

I think the pace of adoption does not have to be driven by pressure from other sides of the planet, but by the RIRs,

The RIRs HAVE been leading on this for over a decade.

but still based on need. An RIR

...

may shout from the rooftops that they have depleted their IPv4 space, but "allocation" and "assignment" are two different things, right?

No RIR has yet exhausted their IP4v space completely.

...

They may be over with their allocation, while the entities allocated those IPs haven't assigned all of them, and are still comfortable. Now, does the RIR start forcing the entities (mostly ISPs) to start using their IPv6 allocations? No.

As co-chair of the AfriNIC Policy Working Group, I would be happy to see you put forth a proposal to encourage v6 usage. However, I don't see how "forcing" folks would work. What "carrots" or "sticks" would you suggest?

McTim, I'll only answer your last question about the "carrots" or "sticks". When we form these WGs and TFs, we still do know who is supposed to supposed to deploy an IP "on the ground". As long as that (let me call him/her) deployer does not appreciate the need to even start using IPv6 even internally (with their network), it will still remain just a wish (for the WGs and TFs) to see IPv6 penetration within their domain (read region). I don't know what the Korean & the Japanese TFs did, but this being KE we are talking about, the same tactics might or might not apply. What the KE TF needs to do is to make the deployment agencies (ISPs, Telcos) appreciate the need to deploy IPv6. Maybe an incentive from the govt (BTW, who is more interested in seeing IPv6 being used? Govt or who?) in some structured but open competition on IPv6 deployment where the greatest deployment Team wins some fancy gizmos ("carrot"). The extent of deployment should be quantifiable as being a major contributing factor towards the "national goal/objective". Sorry, I have more questions than answers. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.

Wash, Allow me to focus on the "RIR"- Regional Internet Registry (www.Afrinic.net) questions since I have some affiliation there. 1. You are right that RIR should push this agenda and Afrinic has been doing so over the years by training techies across africa on IPv6.  But the major problem as we discovered is really is NOT lack of technical IPv6 skills; it seems the IPv6 problem is more business rather than technical.  Take Safaricom for example, with its 20m+ subscriber base, and with highly qualified Internet engineers, why dont they adopt and deploy IPv6 en-masse? Its a business call, the engineers are there and ready to deploy, the Business leaders may not be. 2.  And then again, one cannot blame the Business leaders. Business leaders make the call for IPv6, if the customer demands. But really, a customer has never seen and does NOT want an IPv4 number, let alone an IPv6 number. Its none of their business.  So we have a chicken and egg problem, Business leader waiting for customer to demand, customer will never demand for IPv6. 3. Preferred solution.  Stumble across an IPv6 Killer application. Something that runs (purely) on IPv6 and is popular. This would then force Telcos to go in that direction. Unfortunately this magic bullet application does not exist, and is likely not to exist because of deliberate effort to interoperate v4 and v6. 4. Current Solution. For regions e.g Asia Pacific, Europe and soon USA, where IPv4 is (getting) depleted. They have been forced to adopt IPv6. And this answers you last issue - staying ahead. These folks will be "staying ahead" in terms of IPv6 experience/deployement/knowhow. They will enjoy 1st mover advantages that Africa will be buying from them in years ahead. walu. --- On Mon, 3/19/12, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: From: Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Status of IPv6 deployment in Kenya To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Monday, March 19, 2012, 12:46 PM Hi Walu, What was the mandate of the Kenyan IPv6 Task Force? I hope it's not just another boardroom Task Force. I saw the following on FaceBook yesterday: "When Asia trained engineers Africa trained experts in debate. Can't fix roads by simply organizing stakeholder consultations."It can be further said that we can't fix IPv6 by simply appointing Task Forces. Let me explain why. The adoption of IPv6 should be driven, first by need, then by the entities responsible for assigning the IPs. I think it should be that simple. I still don't see why it needed a Task Force. Let me look at this from the simplest terms: I think the pace of adoption does not have to be driven by pressure from other sides of the planet, but by the RIRs, but still based on need. An RIR may shout from the rooftops that they have depleted their IPv4 space, but "allocation" and "assignment" are two different things, right? They may be over with their allocation, while the entities allocated those IPs haven't assigned all of them, and are still comfortable. Now, does the RIR start forcing the entities (mostly ISPs) to start using their IPv6 allocations? No. Time will come when the IPv6 space will start being utilized. I don't see how the deployment of IPv6 makes us "stay ahead"of anyone though. It's just an IP address. Staying ahead depends on economic factors, no? On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:28, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: Paul/Barrack, I agree, dismal performance.  And to imagine the rest of East Africa expects us to be leading on this front, it is truly a shameful performance.  And that reminds me, the PS Ndemo did inaugurated the Kenyan IPv6 Task force 2yrs ago - of which I am a member but I will not name the others for security reasons Perhaps, there could be some synergy with the ISOC_Ke guys on this to make sure Kenya stays in the forefront of promoting IPv6 usage. walu. --- On Mon, 3/19/12, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote: From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Status of IPv6 deployment in Kenya To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Monday, March 19, 2012, 12:16 PM Thanks Paul. Looking forwad to the ISOC_ke  IP V6 program under your leadership. Best Regards On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Paul M <paulitrix@gmail.com> wrote: Take a look at this page. Gives revealing but dismal statistics over the state of IPv6 in Kenya.  http://www.vyncke.org/ipv6status/detailed.php?country=ke -- :-) Paul M _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail.... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Barrack O. Otieno+254721325277+254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otienohttp://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/odhiambo%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

I agree with you Wash, very good points. On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:

Well said Walu , what you didnt say is why? i listened to Michuki recently outlining his vision of 70% local traffic and 30 Percent International for the African continent, he had very good economic arguments for the same, the problem is we are not telling businesses and users why they they need to embrace IPv6, we seem to be focusing on the hows, i suppose that is the reason we keep lagging, Internet economic still dont make much sense in this part of the world since we seem to abhor research and innovation.

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

Wash,

Allow me to focus on the "RIR"- Regional Internet Registry ( www.Afrinic.net) questions since I have some affiliation there.

1. You are right that RIR should push this agenda and Afrinic has been doing so over the years by training techies across africa on IPv6. But the major problem as we discovered is really is NOT lack of technical IPv6 skills; it seems the IPv6 problem is more business rather than technical. Take Safaricom for example, with its 20m+ subscriber base, and with highly qualified Internet engineers, why dont they adopt and deploy IPv6 en-masse? Its a business call, the engineers are there and ready to deploy, the Business leaders may not be.

2. And then again, one cannot blame the Business leaders. Business leaders make the call for IPv6, if the customer demands. But really, a customer has never seen and does NOT want an IPv4 number, let alone an IPv6 number. Its none of their business. So we have a chicken and egg problem, Business leader waiting for customer to demand, customer will never demand for IPv6.

3. Preferred solution. Stumble across an IPv6 Killer application. Something that runs (purely) on IPv6 and is popular. This would then force Telcos to go in that direction. Unfortunately this magic bullet application does not exist, and is likely not to exist because of deliberate effort to interoperate v4 and v6.

4. Current Solution. For regions e.g Asia Pacific, Europe and soon USA, where IPv4 is (getting) depleted. They have been forced to adopt IPv6. And this answers you last issue - staying ahead. These folks will be "staying ahead" in terms of IPv6 experience/deployement/knowhow. They will enjoy 1st mover advantages that Africa will be buying from them in years ahead.

walu.

--- On *Mon, 3/19/12, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>* wrote:

From: Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [kictanet] Status of IPv6 deployment in Kenya To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Monday, March 19, 2012, 12:46 PM

Hi Walu,

What was the mandate of the Kenyan IPv6 Task Force? I hope it's not just another boardroom Task Force.

I saw the following on FaceBook yesterday: "When Asia trained engineers Africa trained experts in debate. Can't fix roads by simply organizing stakeholder consultations."It can be further said that we can't fix IPv6 by simply appointing Task Forces. Let me explain why. The adoption of IPv6 should be driven, first by need, then by the entities responsible for assigning the IPs. I think it should be that simple. I still don't see why it needed a Task Force.

Let me look at this from the simplest terms:

I think the pace of adoption does not have to be driven by pressure from other sides of the planet, but by the RIRs, but still based on need. An RIR may shout from the rooftops that they have depleted their IPv4 space, but "allocation" and "assignment" are two different things, right? They may be over with their allocation, while the entities allocated those IPs haven't assigned all of them, and are still comfortable. Now, does the RIR start forcing the entities (mostly ISPs) to start using their IPv6 allocations? No.

Time will come when the IPv6 space will start being utilized.

I don't see how the deployment of IPv6 makes us "stay ahead"of anyone though. It's just an IP address. Staying ahead depends on economic factors, no?

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:28, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=jwalu@yahoo.com>

...

wrote:

Paul/Barrack,

I agree, dismal performance. And to imagine the rest of East Africa expects us to be leading on this front, it is truly a shameful performance. And that reminds me, the PS Ndemo did inaugurated the Kenyan IPv6 Task force 2yrs ago - of which I am a member but I will not name the others for security reasons

Perhaps, there could be some synergy with the ISOC_Ke guys on this to make sure Kenya stays in the forefront of promoting IPv6 usage.

walu.

--- On *Mon, 3/19/12, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

* wrote:

From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

Subject: Re: [kictanet] Status of IPv6 deployment in Kenya To: jwalu@yahoo.com <http://mc/compose?to=jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>

...

Date: Monday, March 19, 2012, 12:16 PM

Thanks Paul.

Looking forwad to the ISOC_ke IP V6 program under your leadership.

Best Regards

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Paul M <paulitrix@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=paulitrix@gmail.com>

...

wrote:

Take a look at this page. Gives revealing but dismal statistics over the state of IPv6 in Kenya.

http://www.vyncke.org/ipv6status/detailed.php?country=ke

-- :-) Paul M

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Wash, et al, Let me try and clarify one thing. There will never be demand for IPv6 just like there was never a demand for IPv4 because users don't care much about the underlying technology. However, the users will provide a constant demand for old and new Internet services. As a result if you are an ISP intending to remain in the Internet business you need to have the resources to deliver these services competitively. Failure to plan and deploy IPv6 will mean that the ISP will have two options; 1. Deploy expensive IPv4 to IPv6 translation devices or, 2. Incur costs due to early/unplanned upgrade cycle. Mind you, the issue is not the core network, but the edge and CPE units that have long upgrade cycles. In addition, most of these consumer devices lack a firmware update option. Remember for an ISP to remain competitive the subscriber's entry and monthly recurrent costs have to be low. CPE costs are often met by the subscriber fully either on entry, or through a recovery fee charged nominally each month for a period often defined as the service/useful life of the product. Considering that in Africa we are largely consumers of the Internet, the early adopters (Asia, Europe and the US) have already started utilizing IPv6 thus requiring ISPs to deploy either of the above 2 options. Failure to which would lead to inability to serve demanding subscribers. Lastly, being first movers or what is referred to as "early adopters" has its distinct advantages as follows; 1. Operational experience in IPv6 which is currently limited globally 2. Understand the business case and opportunities brought by IPv6 3. Working with vendors to develop solutions (read free testing gear) 4. Migration paths are aligned with hardware upgrade cycles (no surprises on upgrades) 5. Early adopters are not exposed to last minute issues like high hardware costs, staff training costs, consultants/solution implementers costs, etc. Remember when you implement a solution late its a product/service which has to be procured and implemented. When you adopt early, there are often no procurement costs, training is more of R&D and no external experts since the inhouse engineers the solution implementers. Regards, Michuki. On 3/19/12 1:36 PM, Barrack Otieno wrote:

I agree with you Wash, very good points.

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com <mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com>> wrote:

Well said Walu , what you didnt say is why? i listened to Michuki recently outlining his vision of 70% local traffic and 30 Percent International for the African continent, he had very good economic arguments for the same, the problem is we are not telling businesses and users why they they need to embrace IPv6, we seem to be focusing on the hows, i suppose that is the reason we keep lagging, Internet economic still dont make much sense in this part of the world since we seem to abhor research and innovation.

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com>> wrote:

Wash,

Allow me to focus on the "RIR"- Regional Internet Registry (www.Afrinic.net <http://www.Afrinic.net>) questions since I have some affiliation there.

1. You are right that RIR should push this agenda and Afrinic has been doing so over the years by training techies across africa on IPv6. But the major problem as we discovered is really is NOT lack of technical IPv6 skills; it seems the IPv6 problem is more business rather than technical. Take Safaricom for example, with its 20m+ subscriber base, and with highly qualified Internet engineers, why dont they adopt and deploy IPv6 en-masse? Its a business call, the engineers are there and ready to deploy, the Business leaders may not be.

2. And then again, one cannot blame the Business leaders. Business leaders make the call for IPv6, if the customer demands. But really, a customer has never seen and does NOT want an IPv4 number, let alone an IPv6 number. Its none of their business. So we have a chicken and egg problem, Business leader waiting for customer to demand, customer will never demand for IPv6.

3. Preferred solution. Stumble across an IPv6 Killer application. Something that runs (purely) on IPv6 and is popular. This would then force Telcos to go in that direction. Unfortunately this magic bullet application does not exist, and is likely not to exist because of deliberate effort to interoperate v4 and v6.

4. Current Solution. For regions e.g Asia Pacific, Europe and soon USA, where IPv4 is (getting) depleted. They have been forced to adopt IPv6. And this answers you last issue - staying ahead. These folks will be "staying ahead" in terms of IPv6 experience/deployement/knowhow. They will enjoy 1st mover advantages that Africa will be buying from them in years ahead.

walu.

--- On *Mon, 3/19/12, Odhiambo Washington /<odhiambo@gmail.com <mailto:odhiambo@gmail.com>>/* wrote:

From: Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com <mailto:odhiambo@gmail.com>>

Subject: Re: [kictanet] Status of IPv6 deployment in Kenya To: jwalu@yahoo.com <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Date: Monday, March 19, 2012, 12:46 PM

Hi Walu,

What was the mandate of the Kenyan IPv6 Task Force? I hope it's not just another boardroom Task Force.

I saw the following on FaceBook yesterday:

"When Asia trained engineers Africa trained experts in debate. Can't fix roads by simply organizing stakeholder consultations."

It can be further said that we can't fix IPv6 by simply appointing Task Forces. Let me explain why. The adoption of IPv6 should be driven, first by need, then by the entities responsible for assigning the IPs. I think it should be that simple. I still don't see why it needed a Task Force.

Let me look at this from the simplest terms:

I think the pace of adoption does not have to be driven by pressure from other sides of the planet, but by the RIRs, but still based on need. An RIR may shout from the rooftops that they have depleted their IPv4 space, but "allocation" and "assignment" are two different things, right? They may be over with their allocation, while the entities allocated those IPs haven't assigned all of them, and are still comfortable. Now, does the RIR start forcing the entities (mostly ISPs) to start using their IPv6 allocations? No.

Time will come when the IPv6 space will start being utilized.

I don't see how the deployment of IPv6 makes us "stay ahead"of anyone though. It's just an IP address. Staying ahead depends on economic factors, no?

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:28, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com <http://mc/compose?to=jwalu@yahoo.com>> wrote:

Paul/Barrack,

I agree, dismal performance. And to imagine the rest of East Africa expects us to be leading on this front, it is truly a shameful performance. And that reminds me, the PS Ndemo did inaugurated the Kenyan IPv6 Task force 2yrs ago - of which I am a member but I will not name the others for security reasons

Perhaps, there could be some synergy with the ISOC_Ke guys on this to make sure Kenya stays in the forefront of promoting IPv6 usage.

walu.

--- On *Mon, 3/19/12, Barrack Otieno /<otieno.barrack@gmail.com <http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>>/* wrote:

From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com <http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Status of IPv6 deployment in Kenya To: jwalu@yahoo.com <http://mc/compose?to=jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Date: Monday, March 19, 2012, 12:16 PM

Thanks Paul.

Looking forwad to the ISOC_ke IP V6 program under your leadership.

Best Regards

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Paul M <paulitrix@gmail.com <http://mc/compose?to=paulitrix@gmail.com>> wrote:

Take a look at this page. Gives revealing but dismal statistics over the state of IPv6 in Kenya.

http://www.vyncke.org/ipv6status/detailed.php?country=ke

-- :-) Paul M

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On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 10:20, Michuki Mwangi <michuki@swiftkenya.com>wrote:

Wash, et al,

Let me try and clarify one thing. There will never be demand for IPv6 just like there was never a demand for IPv4 because users don't care much about the underlying technology. However, the users will provide a constant demand for old and new Internet services.

Thanks, Michuki. I see you do agree with me that what will drive the deployment of IPv6 will determined by "need", not necesarily "fashion" or moving with the times. The same is supported by John Gitau in the following statement: "Imagine an iphone4s-advanced that does only IPv6 made for the Asian market. Now also imagine your CEO goes there, buys it and wants it to work here. That's exactly what happened with blackberry. Long before its launch here, pressure came from top shot CEO's. If KQ and equity and all the big SP customers insisted They want IPv6, we'll get IPv6, *create demand*." So there we go. How do we create this needs to lead us towards the drive to deploy IPv6? We need to create the synergies to make everyone involved see the *need* and from there we'll all move in sync.

As a result if you are an ISP intending to remain in the Internet business you need to have the resources to deliver these services competitively. Failure to plan and deploy IPv6 will mean that the ISP will have two options; 1. Deploy expensive IPv4 to IPv6 translation devices or, 2. Incur costs due to early/unplanned upgrade cycle.

I like the justification you give in (1) above. However, if the need has to come from the ISPs clients, then the ISPs themselves will remain blind to these facts. I think now I see the need for the TFs, who I suppose should be the crusaders for this migration. Michuki has given the TF enough ammunition to hit the road, running. My greatests fear is that we're all better in debating that taking action. Someone will say let's call the stakeholders to a conference to chart the way forward. I doubt if it's stakeholder conferences that will make us move forward. There must be another way of engaging without calling the conferences. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.

@Wash ISOC_KE working together with EANOG, the iHub and other stakeholders is planning to start making some initial deployments some of which are trivial like accessing particular websites via IPv6. More advanced deployments are also part of our agenda. I also concur that *need *will drive the bulk of migration to IPv6 but its best to be an early adopter and avoid the the expensive consequences highlighted by Michuki of not being V6 ready.

@John, Thanks for making it more clearer. Who is gonna be that "Entity"? The IPv6 Task Force should help us find the entity. I believe they can easily sell the idea(s) to the big Telcos, who can (probably) co-sponsor the drive. On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 11:54, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:

@Michuki - I think what wash is alluding to is the fact that technical guys are well informed, its the business drivers we need. Technical training is being organized for all over the place. Tomorrow even has awebinar by France telecom through AFNOG<http://www.afrinic.net/ipv6_webminar.htm> /TESPOK

What we need lets say next year is our own very public case study just like we're using france telecom or slovania <http://www.arnes.si/en/news/news-item/article/slovenia-scores-in-the-ipv6-ripeness.html>as a model IPv6 early adopter.

So for me the issue is more of leadership. Which ISP will take this debate to the next level, which techie, which grouping of people (I like what TESPOK has done so far). EANOG? Even this sort of discussion is a step forward. It creates awareness and provides a platform for discussion.

Personally I'd be more than happy to work with/consult for anyone willing to deploy on condition most of the documentation be public.Im sure many on this list would like to do the same.

So someone/some-entity needs to take the lead. The bigger this entity - Safaricom? Telkom? - the better (no not government). We can all get in there and help and create and learn from the experience.

Gitau

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 11:32 AM, <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

...

@ Wash, indeed we are not just talking, if you saw my response I believe the second thread, the ISOC ke chapter in formation is organising a series of. IPv6 training programs from june, we have been talking to stakeholders and we are greatfull for all the input we have received including this kind of discussion. The training and awareness programs will be led by Volunteer trainers who are the societies members led by Paul Muchene who started the thread under the theme Building the Future of the Internet together, membership is open to all stakeholders and we do hope to reach out to all counties through the University Networks. Sent from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message----- From: Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+otieno.barrack=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.keDate: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:56:47 To: <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Status of IPv6 deployment in Kenya

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Hi Wash, On 3/20/12 10:56 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

Thanks, Michuki. I see you do agree with me that what will drive the deployment of IPv6 will determined by "need", not necesarily "fashion" or moving with the times. The same is supported by John Gitau in the following statement: "Imagine an iphone4s-advanced that does only IPv6 made for the Asian market. Now also imagine your CEO goes there, buys it and wants it to work here. That's exactly what happened with blackberry. Long before its launch here, pressure came from top shot CEO's. If KQ and equity and all the big SP customers insisted They want IPv6, we'll get IPv6, *create demand*."

This is an issue that has been at the heart of my employer (Internet Society) and other Internet organizations. In this respect, ISOC has been behind the driving seat of the World IPv6 Day (June 8 2011) and the World IPv6 Launch on June 6 2012 - http://www.worldipv6launch.org/ The objective of the WIPV6Launch is to get everyone to permanently enable IPv6 on their networks. This builds on the success of the World IPv6 day held last year that was targeted at the large content providers to test flight (24hrs) IPv6. The test flight demonstrated that nothing would substantially break with IPv6 being turned.

My greatests fear is that we're all better in debating that taking action. Someone will say let's call the stakeholders to a conference to chart the way forward. I doubt if it's stakeholder conferences that will make us move forward. There must be another way of engaging without calling the conferences.

Well sometimes the talk and debate is useful but only when well structured to achieve an objective. Similar to the success observed with the Japanese and Korean Task Forces. In this respect, i will shamelessly say that there's is an IPv6 Webinar hosted by AfriNIC, Orange and Internet Society tomorrow 21st at 1300 UTC. More information at http://www.afrinic.net/ipv6_webminar.htm Regards, Michuki.

@Walu, First mover advantages? What is it? Those people deployed IP first, before Shem Ochuodho and Randy Bush gave KE a 64Kbps link! How did it work to their economic advantage? Perhaps that justifications might get the Kenyans "competing". Let me give you a stupid clue. Kenyans love freebies, so much. Encourage them along that angle:-) On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 13:27, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

Wash,

Allow me to focus on the "RIR"- Regional Internet Registry ( www.Afrinic.net) questions since I have some affiliation there.

1. You are right that RIR should push this agenda and Afrinic has been doing so over the years by training techies across africa on IPv6. But the major problem as we discovered is really is NOT lack of technical IPv6 skills; it seems the IPv6 problem is more business rather than technical. Take Safaricom for example, with its 20m+ subscriber base, and with highly qualified Internet engineers, why dont they adopt and deploy IPv6 en-masse? Its a business call, the engineers are there and ready to deploy, the Business leaders may not be.

2. And then again, one cannot blame the Business leaders. Business leaders make the call for IPv6, if the customer demands. But really, a customer has never seen and does NOT want an IPv4 number, let alone an IPv6 number. Its none of their business. So we have a chicken and egg problem, Business leader waiting for customer to demand, customer will never demand for IPv6.

3. Preferred solution. Stumble across an IPv6 Killer application. Something that runs (purely) on IPv6 and is popular. This would then force Telcos to go in that direction. Unfortunately this magic bullet application does not exist, and is likely not to exist because of deliberate effort to interoperate v4 and v6.

4. Current Solution. For regions e.g Asia Pacific, Europe and soon USA, where IPv4 is (getting) depleted. They have been forced to adopt IPv6. And this answers you last issue - staying ahead. These folks will be "staying ahead" in terms of IPv6 experience/deployement/knowhow. They will enjoy 1st mover advantages that Africa will be buying from them in years ahead.

walu.

--- On *Mon, 3/19/12, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>* wrote:

From: Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [kictanet] Status of IPv6 deployment in Kenya To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Monday, March 19, 2012, 12:46 PM

Hi Walu,

What was the mandate of the Kenyan IPv6 Task Force? I hope it's not just another boardroom Task Force.

I saw the following on FaceBook yesterday: "When Asia trained engineers Africa trained experts in debate. Can't fix roads by simply organizing stakeholder consultations."It can be further said that we can't fix IPv6 by simply appointing Task Forces. Let me explain why. The adoption of IPv6 should be driven, first by need, then by the entities responsible for assigning the IPs. I think it should be that simple. I still don't see why it needed a Task Force.

Let me look at this from the simplest terms:

I think the pace of adoption does not have to be driven by pressure from other sides of the planet, but by the RIRs, but still based on need. An RIR may shout from the rooftops that they have depleted their IPv4 space, but "allocation" and "assignment" are two different things, right? They may be over with their allocation, while the entities allocated those IPs haven't assigned all of them, and are still comfortable. Now, does the RIR start forcing the entities (mostly ISPs) to start using their IPv6 allocations? No.

Time will come when the IPv6 space will start being utilized.

I don't see how the deployment of IPv6 makes us "stay ahead"of anyone though. It's just an IP address. Staying ahead depends on economic factors, no?

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:28, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=jwalu@yahoo.com>

...

wrote:

Paul/Barrack,

I agree, dismal performance. And to imagine the rest of East Africa expects us to be leading on this front, it is truly a shameful performance. And that reminds me, the PS Ndemo did inaugurated the Kenyan IPv6 Task force 2yrs ago - of which I am a member but I will not name the others for security reasons

Perhaps, there could be some synergy with the ISOC_Ke guys on this to make sure Kenya stays in the forefront of promoting IPv6 usage.

walu.

--- On *Mon, 3/19/12, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

* wrote:

From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

Subject: Re: [kictanet] Status of IPv6 deployment in Kenya To: jwalu@yahoo.com <http://mc/compose?to=jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>

...

Date: Monday, March 19, 2012, 12:16 PM

Thanks Paul.

Looking forwad to the ISOC_ke IP V6 program under your leadership.

Best Regards

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Paul M <paulitrix@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=paulitrix@gmail.com>

...

wrote:

Take a look at this page. Gives revealing but dismal statistics over the state of IPv6 in Kenya.

http://www.vyncke.org/ipv6status/detailed.php?country=ke

-- :-) Paul M

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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.

@JGitau, Are you suggesting that one day, someone will just wake up and make the LIR's withdraw all IPs in the IPv4 address space, thus making businesses find themselves in a fix - the need to implement IPv6 like yesterday? I still think the "need" must be there, and be appreciated. You are in a better position to correct me. On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 20:17, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:

This has not and probably never will be a technical issue. I figured a way to get this to work. Wait for an 'emergency' consult for all the businesses that are note readying themselves for IPv6. make money. My take on this would be:

- The same way we are promoting .KE domains, each and every business heck throw in all clueful individuals should be handed an AS and a block of IPv6 by their favorite LIR. - This will at least have some run on IPv6 internally. - Each of these businesses should force their service provider to route those IPv6 addresses. Everything including DNS should be handled by teh SP. -If you have a site, insist it also be reachable via IPv6 as a customer. Service providers will take notice. -rework all your requirement documents to have IPv6.

as a technical guy; train on DNS alongside IPv6.

Gitau

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

Wash,

Allow me to focus on the "RIR"- Regional Internet Registry ( www.Afrinic.net) questions since I have some affiliation there.

1. You are right that RIR should push this agenda and Afrinic has been doing so over the years by training techies across africa on IPv6. But the major problem as we discovered is really is NOT lack of technical IPv6 skills; it seems the IPv6 problem is more business rather than technical. Take Safaricom for example, with its 20m+ subscriber base, and with highly qualified Internet engineers, why dont they adopt and deploy IPv6 en-masse? Its a business call, the engineers are there and ready to deploy, the Business leaders may not be.

2. And then again, one cannot blame the Business leaders. Business leaders make the call for IPv6, if the customer demands. But really, a customer has never seen and does NOT want an IPv4 number, let alone an IPv6 number. Its none of their business. So we have a chicken and egg problem, Business leader waiting for customer to demand, customer will never demand for IPv6.

3. Preferred solution. Stumble across an IPv6 Killer application. Something that runs (purely) on IPv6 and is popular. This would then force Telcos to go in that direction. Unfortunately this magic bullet application does not exist, and is likely not to exist because of deliberate effort to interoperate v4 and v6.

4. Current Solution. For regions e.g Asia Pacific, Europe and soon USA, where IPv4 is (getting) depleted. They have been forced to adopt IPv6. And this answers you last issue - staying ahead. These folks will be "staying ahead" in terms of IPv6 experience/deployement/knowhow. They will enjoy 1st mover advantages that Africa will be buying from them in years ahead.

walu.

--- On *Mon, 3/19/12, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>* wrote:

From: Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [kictanet] Status of IPv6 deployment in Kenya To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Monday, March 19, 2012, 12:46 PM

Hi Walu,

What was the mandate of the Kenyan IPv6 Task Force? I hope it's not just another boardroom Task Force.

I saw the following on FaceBook yesterday: "When Asia trained engineers Africa trained experts in debate. Can't fix roads by simply organizing stakeholder consultations."It can be further said that we can't fix IPv6 by simply appointing Task Forces. Let me explain why. The adoption of IPv6 should be driven, first by need, then by the entities responsible for assigning the IPs. I think it should be that simple. I still don't see why it needed a Task Force.

Let me look at this from the simplest terms:

I think the pace of adoption does not have to be driven by pressure from other sides of the planet, but by the RIRs, but still based on need. An RIR may shout from the rooftops that they have depleted their IPv4 space, but "allocation" and "assignment" are two different things, right? They may be over with their allocation, while the entities allocated those IPs haven't assigned all of them, and are still comfortable. Now, does the RIR start forcing the entities (mostly ISPs) to start using their IPv6 allocations? No.

Time will come when the IPv6 space will start being utilized.

I don't see how the deployment of IPv6 makes us "stay ahead"of anyone though. It's just an IP address. Staying ahead depends on economic factors, no?

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:28, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=jwalu@yahoo.com>

...

wrote:

Paul/Barrack,

I agree, dismal performance. And to imagine the rest of East Africa expects us to be leading on this front, it is truly a shameful performance. And that reminds me, the PS Ndemo did inaugurated the Kenyan IPv6 Task force 2yrs ago - of which I am a member but I will not name the others for security reasons

Perhaps, there could be some synergy with the ISOC_Ke guys on this to make sure Kenya stays in the forefront of promoting IPv6 usage.

walu.

--- On *Mon, 3/19/12, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

* wrote:

From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

Subject: Re: [kictanet] Status of IPv6 deployment in Kenya To: jwalu@yahoo.com <http://mc/compose?to=jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>

...

Date: Monday, March 19, 2012, 12:16 PM

Thanks Paul.

Looking forwad to the ISOC_ke IP V6 program under your leadership.

Best Regards

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Paul M <paulitrix@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=paulitrix@gmail.com>

...

wrote:

Take a look at this page. Gives revealing but dismal statistics over the state of IPv6 in Kenya.

http://www.vyncke.org/ipv6status/detailed.php?country=ke

-- :-) Paul M

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On 3/20/12, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:

No, I think one day we'll wake up and the rest of the world will have moved on. And yes at that point the demand for IPv6 consultants will be quite high and lucrative, so yay!.Today there is no reason for guys in Asia not to just come up with apps and devices that run on ipv6. An area that's often overlooked is M2M communication as an example.

Imagine an iphone4s-advanced that does only IPv6 made for the Asian market. Now also imagine your CEO goes there, buys it and wants it to work here. That's exactly what happened with blackberry. Long before its launch here, pressure came from top shot CEO's. If KQ and equity and all the big SP customers insisted They want IPv6, we'll get IPv6, create demand.

While we (africa) may still have Ipv4, not getting ready means we shall be the prime market for nat and other 'old school' translation devices. Remember internet is global, and its protocols have no respect for national boundaries. The fact is most vendors would like it if you stuck at v4, they will make more money from you later. Heck i will make more from you later. We will pay for our laziness. That's why I'm not worried. Either way it will work out.

* @wash no lir's won't withdraw v4, lir's are isp's, they cant do that. They should however Ensure everyone gets an ipv6 allocation. Infact call your ISP today and ask for ipv6 PI space.

FYI "PI space" comes from the RIR only, you can't get it from your Local Internet Registry (ISP). You can get an assignment (or sub-allocation) from your LIR. -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel

On 3/20/12, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the headsup. but,

To clarify: for a clueful enterprise customer, my advise is to go get PI space when dealing with IPv6 - current afrinic policy ( http://www.afrinic.net/docs/policies/AFPUB-2004-v6-001.htm) doesn't allow endusers to get an initial allocation but thats something we can bring up at the next afrinic.

You can bring it up then, but to have a proposal that can be discussed (on the agenda) it should be proposed at least 30 days in advance.

RIPE is very clear: "The RIPE NCC will assign the prefix directly to the End User organisations upon a request properly submitted to the RIPE NCC, either * directly *or through a* sponsoring LIR*." http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-545#IPv6_PI_Assignments

That's is relatively new policy in RIPE-land. IPv6 was meant to be aggregatable when created by the IETF, but some RIR communities have chosen to change that.

The LIR could traditionally request PI addresses for an End User - we did it for IPv4.

You can ask the RIR for v4 PI space, no need to deal with an LIR for this, except for routing it. Yes most LIR's will charge to co-ordinate this. IPv6 will

however bring interesting challenges. Either way it wont be wise to be tied to an ISP's addresses, on the other hand I cant believe ISP's are not taking advantage of this address space to 'lock in' customers.

lock-in in v6 is harder than in v4. v6 was designed so that renumbering was more automagic in v6. -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel