Re: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation. The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore Editorial from a Saudi Paper - Something wrong in Kenya There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions. This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists. Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners. It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen. Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex? Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall. Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
I drove by a dead body this morning on the bypass between Wayaki way and Grevillea Grove. He was clearly beaten to death and been there for some time. We called an emergency line and ostensibly the police will come. On Ngong Rd across from Brew Bistro 2 weeks ago a boy was killed by a truck and his body lay on the side of the street for 2 hours (Ngong Rd, one of the busiest in town) before anybody official arrived at the scene. How can it be expected that the Nairobi police handle one of the most complex hostage crises of the decade when they can't even respond to a dead body on the side of a major thoroughfare within 2 hours? I visited Kigali 3 weeks ago and what it made me realize is that it's not an 'African thing' or a 'Developing World thing' that Nairobi is a disaster. It's a total lack of excellence at every level of government. Kigali is better run in every respect than Nairobi and for the most part, it just comes down to better management. I'm not one for recriminations and at a time like this am mostly just sad. In the end, I'm an American and can't effect change here - it's up to Nairobians and Kenyans to say enough is enough and to demand that the public safety system be reformed. 1. A 911 (or 999) emergency call center 2. All police wearing ID numbers and equipped with a ticket book so they can write tickets 3. A new type of police with a different uniform that receive double pay but will be fired if found guilty of corruption 4. All police equipped with a mode of transportation (even just a mountain bike) 5. All police equipped with a radio Is this too much to ask of a city that bills itself as the capital of anything? -Adam -- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Editorial from a Saudi Paper
- Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
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Adam, Well noted. In Kenya we buy (bribe for) contracts/employment in government (including the police and military) as we also do in the private sector. If your career begins with your family bribing to get you inside, it is likely to continue with you becoming a major bribe collector. Possibly, public officials privately collect almost as much money for themselves, as they collect for the state through legal/constitutional channels. We in the private sector are as guilty as they are in practicing corruption, in corrupting public officials. The end result is we best "perform" for kickbacks not ethics. Sadly. On Sep 25, 2013 11:04 AM, "Adam Nelson" <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I drove by a dead body this morning on the bypass between Wayaki way and Grevillea Grove. He was clearly beaten to death and been there for some time. We called an emergency line and ostensibly the police will come. On Ngong Rd across from Brew Bistro 2 weeks ago a boy was killed by a truck and his body lay on the side of the street for 2 hours (Ngong Rd, one of the busiest in town) before anybody official arrived at the scene.
How can it be expected that the Nairobi police handle one of the most complex hostage crises of the decade when they can't even respond to a dead body on the side of a major thoroughfare within 2 hours?
I visited Kigali 3 weeks ago and what it made me realize is that it's not an 'African thing' or a 'Developing World thing' that Nairobi is a disaster. It's a total lack of excellence at every level of government. Kigali is better run in every respect than Nairobi and for the most part, it just comes down to better management.
I'm not one for recriminations and at a time like this am mostly just sad. In the end, I'm an American and can't effect change here - it's up to Nairobians and Kenyans to say enough is enough and to demand that the public safety system be reformed.
1. A 911 (or 999) emergency call center 2. All police wearing ID numbers and equipped with a ticket book so they can write tickets 3. A new type of police with a different uniform that receive double pay but will be fired if found guilty of corruption 4. All police equipped with a mode of transportation (even just a mountain bike) 5. All police equipped with a radio
Is this too much to ask of a city that bills itself as the capital of anything?
-Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Editorial from a Saudi Paper
- Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
I'm well enough off that I try not to bribe as often as possible. When I first moved here, the policeman took the keys out of my car and I had no choice but to give him 1000ksh. I've now been pulled over approximately 10 times since then (ever 2 weeks or so) and have successfully talked my way out of bribing every time. I take the keys out of the ignition and put them into my pocket now (lesson learned). The parking people in front of iHub will take 100 bob for the day instead of 140 for city council but I almost always pay the full amount. The security officers at the iHub building also collect 100 bob for parking downstairs - I don't pay them, which is why I park out front. If the home of Ushahidi can't even stop corruption on its doorstep, what chance is there? At the least however, I think people who can afford to pay the 40 shillings should make the precedent - they'll sleep better at night. If you can't afford it, I don't condemn you and I think you should continue to bribe. I've been waiting some time to get my PIN, we'll see if I can do that without a bribe - fingers crossed. -- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:24 AM, S.M. Muraya <murigi.muraya@gmail.com>wrote:
Adam,
Well noted.
In Kenya we buy (bribe for) contracts/employment in government (including the police and military) as we also do in the private sector.
If your career begins with your family bribing to get you inside, it is likely to continue with you becoming a major bribe collector.
Possibly, public officials privately collect almost as much money for themselves, as they collect for the state through legal/constitutional channels.
We in the private sector are as guilty as they are in practicing corruption, in corrupting public officials. The end result is we best "perform" for kickbacks not ethics.
Sadly.
On Sep 25, 2013 11:04 AM, "Adam Nelson" <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I drove by a dead body this morning on the bypass between Wayaki way and Grevillea Grove. He was clearly beaten to death and been there for some time. We called an emergency line and ostensibly the police will come. On Ngong Rd across from Brew Bistro 2 weeks ago a boy was killed by a truck and his body lay on the side of the street for 2 hours (Ngong Rd, one of the busiest in town) before anybody official arrived at the scene.
How can it be expected that the Nairobi police handle one of the most complex hostage crises of the decade when they can't even respond to a dead body on the side of a major thoroughfare within 2 hours?
I visited Kigali 3 weeks ago and what it made me realize is that it's not an 'African thing' or a 'Developing World thing' that Nairobi is a disaster. It's a total lack of excellence at every level of government. Kigali is better run in every respect than Nairobi and for the most part, it just comes down to better management.
I'm not one for recriminations and at a time like this am mostly just sad. In the end, I'm an American and can't effect change here - it's up to Nairobians and Kenyans to say enough is enough and to demand that the public safety system be reformed.
1. A 911 (or 999) emergency call center 2. All police wearing ID numbers and equipped with a ticket book so they can write tickets 3. A new type of police with a different uniform that receive double pay but will be fired if found guilty of corruption 4. All police equipped with a mode of transportation (even just a mountain bike) 5. All police equipped with a radio
Is this too much to ask of a city that bills itself as the capital of anything?
-Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Editorial from a Saudi Paper
- Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hi Adam, Thanks for the info on the Bishop Magua parking. We definitely will be looking into this. It is something that neither the iHub nor Ushahidi management has been aware of. We certainly intend to do our bit in the fight against corruption. Josiah Mugambi On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I'm well enough off that I try not to bribe as often as possible. When I first moved here, the policeman took the keys out of my car and I had no choice but to give him 1000ksh.
I've now been pulled over approximately 10 times since then (ever 2 weeks or so) and have successfully talked my way out of bribing every time. I take the keys out of the ignition and put them into my pocket now (lesson learned).
The parking people in front of iHub will take 100 bob for the day instead of 140 for city council but I almost always pay the full amount.
The security officers at the iHub building also collect 100 bob for parking downstairs - I don't pay them, which is why I park out front. If the home of Ushahidi can't even stop corruption on its doorstep, what chance is there?
At the least however, I think people who can afford to pay the 40 shillings should make the precedent - they'll sleep better at night. If you can't afford it, I don't condemn you and I think you should continue to bribe.
I've been waiting some time to get my PIN, we'll see if I can do that without a bribe - fingers crossed.
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:24 AM, S.M. Muraya <murigi.muraya@gmail.com>wrote:
Adam,
Well noted.
In Kenya we buy (bribe for) contracts/employment in government (including the police and military) as we also do in the private sector.
If your career begins with your family bribing to get you inside, it is likely to continue with you becoming a major bribe collector.
Possibly, public officials privately collect almost as much money for themselves, as they collect for the state through legal/constitutional channels.
We in the private sector are as guilty as they are in practicing corruption, in corrupting public officials. The end result is we best "perform" for kickbacks not ethics.
Sadly.
On Sep 25, 2013 11:04 AM, "Adam Nelson" <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I drove by a dead body this morning on the bypass between Wayaki way and Grevillea Grove. He was clearly beaten to death and been there for some time. We called an emergency line and ostensibly the police will come. On Ngong Rd across from Brew Bistro 2 weeks ago a boy was killed by a truck and his body lay on the side of the street for 2 hours (Ngong Rd, one of the busiest in town) before anybody official arrived at the scene.
How can it be expected that the Nairobi police handle one of the most complex hostage crises of the decade when they can't even respond to a dead body on the side of a major thoroughfare within 2 hours?
I visited Kigali 3 weeks ago and what it made me realize is that it's not an 'African thing' or a 'Developing World thing' that Nairobi is a disaster. It's a total lack of excellence at every level of government. Kigali is better run in every respect than Nairobi and for the most part, it just comes down to better management.
I'm not one for recriminations and at a time like this am mostly just sad. In the end, I'm an American and can't effect change here - it's up to Nairobians and Kenyans to say enough is enough and to demand that the public safety system be reformed.
1. A 911 (or 999) emergency call center 2. All police wearing ID numbers and equipped with a ticket book so they can write tickets 3. A new type of police with a different uniform that receive double pay but will be fired if found guilty of corruption 4. All police equipped with a mode of transportation (even just a mountain bike) 5. All police equipped with a radio
Is this too much to ask of a city that bills itself as the capital of anything?
-Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Editorial from a Saudi Paper
- Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Josiah Mugambi
Josiah, How can you possibly fix it??? Tell the taxis out front to pay the city council fees? They'll laugh in your face. Maybe if iHub pays the fees for the taxis or something since they're the prime users? As for buying chai for the guards to let you park in select parking spots downstairs, that seems like a difficult thing to defend against unless you have an everybody pays policy. As with everything else, only structural solutions will solve entrenched problems and it won't be easy. Best of luck, Adam -- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Josiah Mugambi <josiah.mugambi@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi Adam,
Thanks for the info on the Bishop Magua parking. We definitely will be looking into this. It is something that neither the iHub nor Ushahidi management has been aware of.
We certainly intend to do our bit in the fight against corruption.
Josiah Mugambi
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I'm well enough off that I try not to bribe as often as possible. When I first moved here, the policeman took the keys out of my car and I had no choice but to give him 1000ksh.
I've now been pulled over approximately 10 times since then (ever 2 weeks or so) and have successfully talked my way out of bribing every time. I take the keys out of the ignition and put them into my pocket now (lesson learned).
The parking people in front of iHub will take 100 bob for the day instead of 140 for city council but I almost always pay the full amount.
The security officers at the iHub building also collect 100 bob for parking downstairs - I don't pay them, which is why I park out front. If the home of Ushahidi can't even stop corruption on its doorstep, what chance is there?
At the least however, I think people who can afford to pay the 40 shillings should make the precedent - they'll sleep better at night. If you can't afford it, I don't condemn you and I think you should continue to bribe.
I've been waiting some time to get my PIN, we'll see if I can do that without a bribe - fingers crossed.
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:24 AM, S.M. Muraya <murigi.muraya@gmail.com>wrote:
Adam,
Well noted.
In Kenya we buy (bribe for) contracts/employment in government (including the police and military) as we also do in the private sector.
If your career begins with your family bribing to get you inside, it is likely to continue with you becoming a major bribe collector.
Possibly, public officials privately collect almost as much money for themselves, as they collect for the state through legal/constitutional channels.
We in the private sector are as guilty as they are in practicing corruption, in corrupting public officials. The end result is we best "perform" for kickbacks not ethics.
Sadly.
On Sep 25, 2013 11:04 AM, "Adam Nelson" <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I drove by a dead body this morning on the bypass between Wayaki way and Grevillea Grove. He was clearly beaten to death and been there for some time. We called an emergency line and ostensibly the police will come. On Ngong Rd across from Brew Bistro 2 weeks ago a boy was killed by a truck and his body lay on the side of the street for 2 hours (Ngong Rd, one of the busiest in town) before anybody official arrived at the scene.
How can it be expected that the Nairobi police handle one of the most complex hostage crises of the decade when they can't even respond to a dead body on the side of a major thoroughfare within 2 hours?
I visited Kigali 3 weeks ago and what it made me realize is that it's not an 'African thing' or a 'Developing World thing' that Nairobi is a disaster. It's a total lack of excellence at every level of government. Kigali is better run in every respect than Nairobi and for the most part, it just comes down to better management.
I'm not one for recriminations and at a time like this am mostly just sad. In the end, I'm an American and can't effect change here - it's up to Nairobians and Kenyans to say enough is enough and to demand that the public safety system be reformed.
1. A 911 (or 999) emergency call center 2. All police wearing ID numbers and equipped with a ticket book so they can write tickets 3. A new type of police with a different uniform that receive double pay but will be fired if found guilty of corruption 4. All police equipped with a mode of transportation (even just a mountain bike) 5. All police equipped with a radio
Is this too much to ask of a city that bills itself as the capital of anything?
-Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com>wrote:
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Editorial from a Saudi Paper
- Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Josiah Mugambi
I can assure you Adam you will get your PIN without a bribe. The basic service level at KRA is highly streamlined. Follow up through the Call Center / Service center: http://www.revenue.go.ke/index.php/comlaints-and-information-centre Regards ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh google ID | Skype ID: lordmwesh On 25 September 2013 12:00, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
Josiah,
How can you possibly fix it??? Tell the taxis out front to pay the city council fees? They'll laugh in your face. Maybe if iHub pays the fees for the taxis or something since they're the prime users?
As for buying chai for the guards to let you park in select parking spots downstairs, that seems like a difficult thing to defend against unless you have an everybody pays policy.
As with everything else, only structural solutions will solve entrenched problems and it won't be easy.
Best of luck, Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Josiah Mugambi <josiah.mugambi@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Adam,
Thanks for the info on the Bishop Magua parking. We definitely will be looking into this. It is something that neither the iHub nor Ushahidi management has been aware of.
We certainly intend to do our bit in the fight against corruption.
Josiah Mugambi
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I'm well enough off that I try not to bribe as often as possible. When I first moved here, the policeman took the keys out of my car and I had no choice but to give him 1000ksh.
I've now been pulled over approximately 10 times since then (ever 2 weeks or so) and have successfully talked my way out of bribing every time. I take the keys out of the ignition and put them into my pocket now (lesson learned).
The parking people in front of iHub will take 100 bob for the day instead of 140 for city council but I almost always pay the full amount.
The security officers at the iHub building also collect 100 bob for parking downstairs - I don't pay them, which is why I park out front. If the home of Ushahidi can't even stop corruption on its doorstep, what chance is there?
At the least however, I think people who can afford to pay the 40 shillings should make the precedent - they'll sleep better at night. If you can't afford it, I don't condemn you and I think you should continue to bribe.
I've been waiting some time to get my PIN, we'll see if I can do that without a bribe - fingers crossed.
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:24 AM, S.M. Muraya <murigi.muraya@gmail.com>wrote:
Adam,
Well noted.
In Kenya we buy (bribe for) contracts/employment in government (including the police and military) as we also do in the private sector.
If your career begins with your family bribing to get you inside, it is likely to continue with you becoming a major bribe collector.
Possibly, public officials privately collect almost as much money for themselves, as they collect for the state through legal/constitutional channels.
We in the private sector are as guilty as they are in practicing corruption, in corrupting public officials. The end result is we best "perform" for kickbacks not ethics.
Sadly.
On Sep 25, 2013 11:04 AM, "Adam Nelson" <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I drove by a dead body this morning on the bypass between Wayaki way and Grevillea Grove. He was clearly beaten to death and been there for some time. We called an emergency line and ostensibly the police will come. On Ngong Rd across from Brew Bistro 2 weeks ago a boy was killed by a truck and his body lay on the side of the street for 2 hours (Ngong Rd, one of the busiest in town) before anybody official arrived at the scene.
How can it be expected that the Nairobi police handle one of the most complex hostage crises of the decade when they can't even respond to a dead body on the side of a major thoroughfare within 2 hours?
I visited Kigali 3 weeks ago and what it made me realize is that it's not an 'African thing' or a 'Developing World thing' that Nairobi is a disaster. It's a total lack of excellence at every level of government. Kigali is better run in every respect than Nairobi and for the most part, it just comes down to better management.
I'm not one for recriminations and at a time like this am mostly just sad. In the end, I'm an American and can't effect change here - it's up to Nairobians and Kenyans to say enough is enough and to demand that the public safety system be reformed.
1. A 911 (or 999) emergency call center 2. All police wearing ID numbers and equipped with a ticket book so they can write tickets 3. A new type of police with a different uniform that receive double pay but will be fired if found guilty of corruption 4. All police equipped with a mode of transportation (even just a mountain bike) 5. All police equipped with a radio
Is this too much to ask of a city that bills itself as the capital of anything?
-Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com>wrote:
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Editorial from a Saudi Paper
- Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/josiah.mugambi%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Josiah Mugambi
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hello Adam, I agree with you on all the points below. The level of professionalism in certain parts of public sector is diabolical. When I was in Kigali some time back, a kid told his father - who had just littered the street with a paper - that if he did not pick it up he would report him to the police... At iHub, I always pay City Council and ensure I get a receipt. Which I promptly claim as a business expense. That helps reduce the tax I pay Ceaser each year. On 09/25/2013 11:03 AM, Adam Nelson wrote:
I drove by a dead body this morning on the bypass between Wayaki way and Grevillea Grove. He was clearly beaten to death and been there for some time. We called an emergency line and ostensibly the police will come. On Ngong Rd across from Brew Bistro 2 weeks ago a boy was killed by a truck and his body lay on the side of the street for 2 hours (Ngong Rd, one of the busiest in town) before anybody official arrived at the scene.
How can it be expected that the Nairobi police handle one of the most complex hostage crises of the decade when they can't even respond to a dead body on the side of a major thoroughfare within 2 hours?
I visited Kigali 3 weeks ago and what it made me realize is that it's not an 'African thing' or a 'Developing World thing' that Nairobi is a disaster. It's a total lack of excellence at every level of government. Kigali is better run in every respect than Nairobi and for the most part, it just comes down to better management.
I'm not one for recriminations and at a time like this am mostly just sad. In the end, I'm an American and can't effect change here - it's up to Nairobians and Kenyans to say enough is enough and to demand that the public safety system be reformed.
1. A 911 (or 999) emergency call center 2. All police wearing ID numbers and equipped with a ticket book so they can write tickets 3. A new type of police with a different uniform that receive double pay but will be fired if found guilty of corruption 4. All police equipped with a mode of transportation (even just a mountain bike) 5. All police equipped with a radio
Is this too much to ask of a city that bills itself as the capital of anything?
-Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io <http://kili.io> Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson <https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson>
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com <mailto:dmbuvi@gmail.com>> wrote:
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: robert yawe <mailto:robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <mailto:dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Editorial from a Saudi Paper
*
Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi's Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital's roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi's Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Joe Murithi Njeru - Chief Executive Officer Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru - Chief Executive Officer m: +254 722 787725 e: joe.njeru@zilojo.com <mailto:joe.njeru@zilojo.com?Subject=Hello> w: www.zilojo.com <http://www.zilojo.com> o: +254 20 2190873 Map: http://goo.gl/maps/9IVjt *Suite B21, Ground Floor, Block B, Silverpool Office Suites, Jabavu Lane, Hurlingham Nairobi, Kenya.* <http://www.zilojo.com>
Nairobi Homicides per 100,000 people = 4 Memphis, Tennessee No.10 most dangerous US City Murders per 100,000 = 24.5 Top 3 are Flint, Michigan (64.9 murders per 100,000 people), Detroit 54.6/1000 and New Orleans, Louisiana 53.5. With 4 per 100,00, I would say Nairobi, although has work that needs to be done, should be judged first and foremost on the nature of its society and hence these comparative figures...Lack of the 911, police equipment or vehicles, may not be the problem but the accomodating nature of this society...After all, American cities with more than enough emergency lines operators, vehicles and so on are suffering crime rates beyond the realm of Nairobians' imagination (More than 10 times). We are not equipped for terrorist attacks that we have learnt just like NYC learn with 9/11 where many firemen and policemen died rushing into the towers to aid, the important thing is what lessons to draw from here. Otherwise, for someone from say the US or UK which are highly individualistic societies may find the lack of sufficient patrol cars a problem but in a society where informal social support systems pervade every level of society like Kenya's calling the neighbour to help is usually enough. James On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@zilojo.com>wrote:
Hello Adam,
I agree with you on all the points below.
The level of professionalism in certain parts of public sector is diabolical.
When I was in Kigali some time back, a kid told his father - who had just littered the street with a paper - that if he did not pick it up he would report him to the police...
At iHub, I always pay City Council and ensure I get a receipt. Which I promptly claim as a business expense.
That helps reduce the tax I pay Ceaser each year.
On 09/25/2013 11:03 AM, Adam Nelson wrote:
I drove by a dead body this morning on the bypass between Wayaki way and Grevillea Grove. He was clearly beaten to death and been there for some time. We called an emergency line and ostensibly the police will come. On Ngong Rd across from Brew Bistro 2 weeks ago a boy was killed by a truck and his body lay on the side of the street for 2 hours (Ngong Rd, one of the busiest in town) before anybody official arrived at the scene.
How can it be expected that the Nairobi police handle one of the most complex hostage crises of the decade when they can't even respond to a dead body on the side of a major thoroughfare within 2 hours?
I visited Kigali 3 weeks ago and what it made me realize is that it's not an 'African thing' or a 'Developing World thing' that Nairobi is a disaster. It's a total lack of excellence at every level of government. Kigali is better run in every respect than Nairobi and for the most part, it just comes down to better management.
I'm not one for recriminations and at a time like this am mostly just sad. In the end, I'm an American and can't effect change here - it's up to Nairobians and Kenyans to say enough is enough and to demand that the public safety system be reformed.
1. A 911 (or 999) emergency call center 2. All police wearing ID numbers and equipped with a ticket book so they can write tickets 3. A new type of police with a different uniform that receive double pay but will be fired if found guilty of corruption 4. All police equipped with a mode of transportation (even just a mountain bike) 5. All police equipped with a radio
Is this too much to ask of a city that bills itself as the capital of anything?
-Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Editorial from a Saudi Paper
- Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru - Chief Executive Officer m: +254 722 787725 e: joe.njeru@zilojo.com <joe.njeru@zilojo.com?Subject=Hello> w: www.zilojo.com o: +254 20 2190873 Map: http://goo.gl/maps/9IVjt
*Suite B21, Ground Floor, Block B, Silverpool Office Suites, Jabavu Lane, Hurlingham Nairobi, Kenya.* <http://www.zilojo.com>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
James umeongea kama watu 100000 On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 3:33 PM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote:
Nairobi Homicides per 100,000 people = 4
Memphis, Tennessee No.10 most dangerous US City Murders per 100,000 = 24.5
Top 3 are Flint, Michigan (64.9 murders per 100,000 people), Detroit 54.6/1000 and New Orleans, Louisiana 53.5.
With 4 per 100,00, I would say Nairobi, although has work that needs to be done, should be judged first and foremost on the nature of its society and hence these comparative figures...Lack of the 911, police equipment or vehicles, may not be the problem but the accomodating nature of this society...After all, American cities with more than enough emergency lines operators, vehicles and so on are suffering crime rates beyond the realm of Nairobians' imagination (More than 10 times).
We are not equipped for terrorist attacks that we have learnt just like NYC learn with 9/11 where many firemen and policemen died rushing into the towers to aid, the important thing is what lessons to draw from here.
Otherwise, for someone from say the US or UK which are highly individualistic societies may find the lack of sufficient patrol cars a problem but in a society where informal social support systems pervade every level of society like Kenya's calling the neighbour to help is usually enough.
James
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@zilojo.com>wrote:
Hello Adam,
I agree with you on all the points below.
The level of professionalism in certain parts of public sector is diabolical.
When I was in Kigali some time back, a kid told his father - who had just littered the street with a paper - that if he did not pick it up he would report him to the police...
At iHub, I always pay City Council and ensure I get a receipt. Which I promptly claim as a business expense.
That helps reduce the tax I pay Ceaser each year.
On 09/25/2013 11:03 AM, Adam Nelson wrote:
I drove by a dead body this morning on the bypass between Wayaki way and Grevillea Grove. He was clearly beaten to death and been there for some time. We called an emergency line and ostensibly the police will come. On Ngong Rd across from Brew Bistro 2 weeks ago a boy was killed by a truck and his body lay on the side of the street for 2 hours (Ngong Rd, one of the busiest in town) before anybody official arrived at the scene.
How can it be expected that the Nairobi police handle one of the most complex hostage crises of the decade when they can't even respond to a dead body on the side of a major thoroughfare within 2 hours?
I visited Kigali 3 weeks ago and what it made me realize is that it's not an 'African thing' or a 'Developing World thing' that Nairobi is a disaster. It's a total lack of excellence at every level of government. Kigali is better run in every respect than Nairobi and for the most part, it just comes down to better management.
I'm not one for recriminations and at a time like this am mostly just sad. In the end, I'm an American and can't effect change here - it's up to Nairobians and Kenyans to say enough is enough and to demand that the public safety system be reformed.
1. A 911 (or 999) emergency call center 2. All police wearing ID numbers and equipped with a ticket book so they can write tickets 3. A new type of police with a different uniform that receive double pay but will be fired if found guilty of corruption 4. All police equipped with a mode of transportation (even just a mountain bike) 5. All police equipped with a radio
Is this too much to ask of a city that bills itself as the capital of anything?
-Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Editorial from a Saudi Paper
- Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru - Chief Executive Officer m: +254 722 787725 e: joe.njeru@zilojo.com <joe.njeru@zilojo.com?Subject=Hello> w: www.zilojo.com o: +254 20 2190873 Map: http://goo.gl/maps/9IVjt
*Suite B21, Ground Floor, Block B, Silverpool Office Suites, Jabavu Lane, Hurlingham Nairobi, Kenya.* <http://www.zilojo.com>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
The idea that Nairobi's homicide rate is 4 per 100k when New York's is 6.4 per 100k just demonstrates how underreported the murder rate must be here - which is even more depressing. But anyway, now's not a time for arguing. -- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
James
umeongea kama watu 100000
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 3:33 PM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote:
Nairobi Homicides per 100,000 people = 4
Memphis, Tennessee No.10 most dangerous US City Murders per 100,000 = 24.5
Top 3 are Flint, Michigan (64.9 murders per 100,000 people), Detroit 54.6/1000 and New Orleans, Louisiana 53.5.
With 4 per 100,00, I would say Nairobi, although has work that needs to be done, should be judged first and foremost on the nature of its society and hence these comparative figures...Lack of the 911, police equipment or vehicles, may not be the problem but the accomodating nature of this society...After all, American cities with more than enough emergency lines operators, vehicles and so on are suffering crime rates beyond the realm of Nairobians' imagination (More than 10 times).
We are not equipped for terrorist attacks that we have learnt just like NYC learn with 9/11 where many firemen and policemen died rushing into the towers to aid, the important thing is what lessons to draw from here.
Otherwise, for someone from say the US or UK which are highly individualistic societies may find the lack of sufficient patrol cars a problem but in a society where informal social support systems pervade every level of society like Kenya's calling the neighbour to help is usually enough.
James
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@zilojo.com>wrote:
Hello Adam,
I agree with you on all the points below.
The level of professionalism in certain parts of public sector is diabolical.
When I was in Kigali some time back, a kid told his father - who had just littered the street with a paper - that if he did not pick it up he would report him to the police...
At iHub, I always pay City Council and ensure I get a receipt. Which I promptly claim as a business expense.
That helps reduce the tax I pay Ceaser each year.
On 09/25/2013 11:03 AM, Adam Nelson wrote:
I drove by a dead body this morning on the bypass between Wayaki way and Grevillea Grove. He was clearly beaten to death and been there for some time. We called an emergency line and ostensibly the police will come. On Ngong Rd across from Brew Bistro 2 weeks ago a boy was killed by a truck and his body lay on the side of the street for 2 hours (Ngong Rd, one of the busiest in town) before anybody official arrived at the scene.
How can it be expected that the Nairobi police handle one of the most complex hostage crises of the decade when they can't even respond to a dead body on the side of a major thoroughfare within 2 hours?
I visited Kigali 3 weeks ago and what it made me realize is that it's not an 'African thing' or a 'Developing World thing' that Nairobi is a disaster. It's a total lack of excellence at every level of government. Kigali is better run in every respect than Nairobi and for the most part, it just comes down to better management.
I'm not one for recriminations and at a time like this am mostly just sad. In the end, I'm an American and can't effect change here - it's up to Nairobians and Kenyans to say enough is enough and to demand that the public safety system be reformed.
1. A 911 (or 999) emergency call center 2. All police wearing ID numbers and equipped with a ticket book so they can write tickets 3. A new type of police with a different uniform that receive double pay but will be fired if found guilty of corruption 4. All police equipped with a mode of transportation (even just a mountain bike) 5. All police equipped with a radio
Is this too much to ask of a city that bills itself as the capital of anything?
-Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com>wrote:
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Editorial from a Saudi Paper
- Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
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Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru - Chief Executive Officer m: +254 722 787725 e: joe.njeru@zilojo.com <joe.njeru@zilojo.com?Subject=Hello> w: www.zilojo.com o: +254 20 2190873 Map: http://goo.gl/maps/9IVjt
*Suite B21, Ground Floor, Block B, Silverpool Office Suites, Jabavu Lane, Hurlingham Nairobi, Kenya.* <http://www.zilojo.com>
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Actually, the murder rate is not too under reported. Some of us fear the dead (ghosts) more we fear people (alive) on earth :) We also need to get burial permits from local authorities. If Kenya were a total banana state, you would not be living here. The Kenya Police are better at crime prevention (executing criminals) than at emergency response. This is the simple reason terrorists in this region will increasingly suffer and die after this event. Increased automation of business processes and visualization of key performance indicators will resolve many of our governance issues. On Sep 25, 2013 3:51 PM, "Adam Nelson" <adam@varud.com> wrote:
The idea that Nairobi's homicide rate is 4 per 100k when New York's is 6.4 per 100k just demonstrates how underreported the murder rate must be here - which is even more depressing.
But anyway, now's not a time for arguing.
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
James
umeongea kama watu 100000
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 3:33 PM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote:
Nairobi Homicides per 100,000 people = 4
Memphis, Tennessee No.10 most dangerous US City Murders per 100,000 = 24.5
Top 3 are Flint, Michigan (64.9 murders per 100,000 people), Detroit 54.6/1000 and New Orleans, Louisiana 53.5.
With 4 per 100,00, I would say Nairobi, although has work that needs to be done, should be judged first and foremost on the nature of its society and hence these comparative figures...Lack of the 911, police equipment or vehicles, may not be the problem but the accomodating nature of this society...After all, American cities with more than enough emergency lines operators, vehicles and so on are suffering crime rates beyond the realm of Nairobians' imagination (More than 10 times).
We are not equipped for terrorist attacks that we have learnt just like NYC learn with 9/11 where many firemen and policemen died rushing into the towers to aid, the important thing is what lessons to draw from here.
Otherwise, for someone from say the US or UK which are highly individualistic societies may find the lack of sufficient patrol cars a problem but in a society where informal social support systems pervade every level of society like Kenya's calling the neighbour to help is usually enough.
James
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@zilojo.com
wrote:
Hello Adam,
I agree with you on all the points below.
The level of professionalism in certain parts of public sector is diabolical.
When I was in Kigali some time back, a kid told his father - who had just littered the street with a paper - that if he did not pick it up he would report him to the police...
At iHub, I always pay City Council and ensure I get a receipt. Which I promptly claim as a business expense.
That helps reduce the tax I pay Ceaser each year.
On 09/25/2013 11:03 AM, Adam Nelson wrote:
I drove by a dead body this morning on the bypass between Wayaki way and Grevillea Grove. He was clearly beaten to death and been there for some time. We called an emergency line and ostensibly the police will come. On Ngong Rd across from Brew Bistro 2 weeks ago a boy was killed by a truck and his body lay on the side of the street for 2 hours (Ngong Rd, one of the busiest in town) before anybody official arrived at the scene.
How can it be expected that the Nairobi police handle one of the most complex hostage crises of the decade when they can't even respond to a dead body on the side of a major thoroughfare within 2 hours?
I visited Kigali 3 weeks ago and what it made me realize is that it's not an 'African thing' or a 'Developing World thing' that Nairobi is a disaster. It's a total lack of excellence at every level of government. Kigali is better run in every respect than Nairobi and for the most part, it just comes down to better management.
I'm not one for recriminations and at a time like this am mostly just sad. In the end, I'm an American and can't effect change here - it's up to Nairobians and Kenyans to say enough is enough and to demand that the public safety system be reformed.
1. A 911 (or 999) emergency call center 2. All police wearing ID numbers and equipped with a ticket book so they can write tickets 3. A new type of police with a different uniform that receive double pay but will be fired if found guilty of corruption 4. All police equipped with a mode of transportation (even just a mountain bike) 5. All police equipped with a radio
Is this too much to ask of a city that bills itself as the capital of anything?
-Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com>wrote:
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Editorial from a Saudi Paper
- Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru - Chief Executive Officer m: +254 722 787725 e: joe.njeru@zilojo.com <joe.njeru@zilojo.com?Subject=Hello> w: www.zilojo.com o: +254 20 2190873 Map: http://goo.gl/maps/9IVjt
*Suite B21, Ground Floor, Block B, Silverpool Office Suites, Jabavu Lane, Hurlingham Nairobi, Kenya.* <http://www.zilojo.com>
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Adam's wider point was not about police response to homicides or about the fact that Kenya is not equipped for terrorist attacks. His point was that there's general poor management in government. His point still stands regardless of your response. On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 1:33 PM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote:
Nairobi Homicides per 100,000 people = 4
Memphis, Tennessee No.10 most dangerous US City Murders per 100,000 = 24.5
Top 3 are Flint, Michigan (64.9 murders per 100,000 people), Detroit 54.6/1000 and New Orleans, Louisiana 53.5.
With 4 per 100,00, I would say Nairobi, although has work that needs to be done, should be judged first and foremost on the nature of its society and hence these comparative figures...Lack of the 911, police equipment or vehicles, may not be the problem but the accomodating nature of this society...After all, American cities with more than enough emergency lines operators, vehicles and so on are suffering crime rates beyond the realm of Nairobians' imagination (More than 10 times).
We are not equipped for terrorist attacks that we have learnt just like NYC learn with 9/11 where many firemen and policemen died rushing into the towers to aid, the important thing is what lessons to draw from here.
Otherwise, for someone from say the US or UK which are highly individualistic societies may find the lack of sufficient patrol cars a problem but in a society where informal social support systems pervade every level of society like Kenya's calling the neighbour to help is usually enough.
James
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@zilojo.com>wrote:
Hello Adam,
I agree with you on all the points below.
The level of professionalism in certain parts of public sector is diabolical.
When I was in Kigali some time back, a kid told his father - who had just littered the street with a paper - that if he did not pick it up he would report him to the police...
At iHub, I always pay City Council and ensure I get a receipt. Which I promptly claim as a business expense.
That helps reduce the tax I pay Ceaser each year.
On 09/25/2013 11:03 AM, Adam Nelson wrote:
I drove by a dead body this morning on the bypass between Wayaki way and Grevillea Grove. He was clearly beaten to death and been there for some time. We called an emergency line and ostensibly the police will come. On Ngong Rd across from Brew Bistro 2 weeks ago a boy was killed by a truck and his body lay on the side of the street for 2 hours (Ngong Rd, one of the busiest in town) before anybody official arrived at the scene.
How can it be expected that the Nairobi police handle one of the most complex hostage crises of the decade when they can't even respond to a dead body on the side of a major thoroughfare within 2 hours?
I visited Kigali 3 weeks ago and what it made me realize is that it's not an 'African thing' or a 'Developing World thing' that Nairobi is a disaster. It's a total lack of excellence at every level of government. Kigali is better run in every respect than Nairobi and for the most part, it just comes down to better management.
I'm not one for recriminations and at a time like this am mostly just sad. In the end, I'm an American and can't effect change here - it's up to Nairobians and Kenyans to say enough is enough and to demand that the public safety system be reformed.
1. A 911 (or 999) emergency call center 2. All police wearing ID numbers and equipped with a ticket book so they can write tickets 3. A new type of police with a different uniform that receive double pay but will be fired if found guilty of corruption 4. All police equipped with a mode of transportation (even just a mountain bike) 5. All police equipped with a radio
Is this too much to ask of a city that bills itself as the capital of anything?
-Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Editorial from a Saudi Paper
- Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru - Chief Executive Officer m: +254 722 787725 e: joe.njeru@zilojo.com <joe.njeru@zilojo.com?Subject=Hello> w: www.zilojo.com o: +254 20 2190873 Map: http://goo.gl/maps/9IVjt
*Suite B21, Ground Floor, Block B, Silverpool Office Suites, Jabavu Lane, Hurlingham Nairobi, Kenya.* <http://www.zilojo.com>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hello James, Importance is not only 'the lessons learnt'.... but that ACTION taken. As Fred Kofman said... "Five frogs are sitting on a log. Four decide to jump off. How many are left? Five, because deciding is different than doing! Decisions are worthless … unless you turn them into commitments. " On 09/25/2013 03:33 PM, James Mbugua wrote:
Nairobi Homicides per 100,000 people = 4
Memphis, Tennessee No.10 most dangerous US City Murders per 100,000 = 24.5
Top 3 are Flint, Michigan (64.9 murders per 100,000 people), Detroit 54.6/1000 and New Orleans, Louisiana 53.5.
With 4 per 100,00, I would say Nairobi, although has work that needs to be done, should be judged first and foremost on the nature of its society and hence these comparative figures...Lack of the 911, police equipment or vehicles, may not be the problem but the accomodating nature of this society...After all, American cities with more than enough emergency lines operators, vehicles and so on are suffering crime rates beyond the realm of Nairobians' imagination (More than 10 times).
We are not equipped for terrorist attacks that we have learnt just like NYC learn with 9/11 where many firemen and policemen died rushing into the towers to aid, the important thing is what lessons to draw from here.
Otherwise, for someone from say the US or UK which are highly individualistic societies may find the lack of sufficient patrol cars a problem but in a society where informal social support systems pervade every level of society like Kenya's calling the neighbour to help is usually enough.
James
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@zilojo.com <mailto:joe.njeru@zilojo.com>> wrote:
Hello Adam,
I agree with you on all the points below.
The level of professionalism in certain parts of public sector is diabolical.
When I was in Kigali some time back, a kid told his father - who had just littered the street with a paper - that if he did not pick it up he would report him to the police...
At iHub, I always pay City Council and ensure I get a receipt. Which I promptly claim as a business expense.
That helps reduce the tax I pay Ceaser each year.
On 09/25/2013 11:03 AM, Adam Nelson wrote:
I drove by a dead body this morning on the bypass between Wayaki way and Grevillea Grove. He was clearly beaten to death and been there for some time. We called an emergency line and ostensibly the police will come. On Ngong Rd across from Brew Bistro 2 weeks ago a boy was killed by a truck and his body lay on the side of the street for 2 hours (Ngong Rd, one of the busiest in town) before anybody official arrived at the scene.
How can it be expected that the Nairobi police handle one of the most complex hostage crises of the decade when they can't even respond to a dead body on the side of a major thoroughfare within 2 hours?
I visited Kigali 3 weeks ago and what it made me realize is that it's not an 'African thing' or a 'Developing World thing' that Nairobi is a disaster. It's a total lack of excellence at every level of government. Kigali is better run in every respect than Nairobi and for the most part, it just comes down to better management.
I'm not one for recriminations and at a time like this am mostly just sad. In the end, I'm an American and can't effect change here - it's up to Nairobians and Kenyans to say enough is enough and to demand that the public safety system be reformed.
1. A 911 (or 999) emergency call center 2. All police wearing ID numbers and equipped with a ticket book so they can write tickets 3. A new type of police with a different uniform that receive double pay but will be fired if found guilty of corruption 4. All police equipped with a mode of transportation (even just a mountain bike) 5. All police equipped with a radio
Is this too much to ask of a city that bills itself as the capital of anything?
-Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io <http://kili.io> Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson <https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson>
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com <mailto:dmbuvi@gmail.com>> wrote:
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: robert yawe <mailto:robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <mailto:dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Editorial from a Saudi Paper
*
Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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--
Regards,
Joe Murithi Njeru - Chief Executive Officer
m: +254 722 787725 <tel:%2B254%20722%20787725> e: joe.njeru@zilojo.com <mailto:joe.njeru@zilojo.com?Subject=Hello> w: www.zilojo.com <http://www.zilojo.com> o: +254 20 2190873 <tel:%2B254%2020%202190873> Map: http://goo.gl/maps/9IVjt
*Suite B21, Ground Floor, Block B, Silverpool Office Suites, Jabavu Lane, Hurlingham Nairobi, Kenya.*
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Joe Murithi Njeru - Chief Executive Officer Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru - Chief Executive Officer m: +254 722 787725 e: joe.njeru@zilojo.com <mailto:joe.njeru@zilojo.com?Subject=Hello> w: www.zilojo.com <http://www.zilojo.com> o: +254 20 2190873 Map: http://goo.gl/maps/9IVjt *Suite B21, Ground Floor, Block B, Silverpool Office Suites, Jabavu Lane, Hurlingham Nairobi, Kenya.* <http://www.zilojo.com>
Kenyans, a new challenge We have moved up the ranks of international rankings in corruption, child bearing, HIV infections, HIV cures and now let as aim to beat the number of homicides per 100,000 kbfs. James are you serious? What I am asking is that we use our talents and be weary of the repercussions when we get to the pearly gates of ahera just to be turned back because we buried ours in the ground for we new our master was a cruel and mean master or reapt where he did not sow. 1. Get the police off the road and lets use the traffic lights and flog those who do not respect them, on the spot. The terrorists must have been in stitches as they passed the various police manned junctions. 2. Those who use county (formerly council) parking on a daily basis please buy seasonal tickets so as to reduce the temptation to bribe, you will also have made sure that your payments gets into the rightful coffers. 3. If you have total dark tint on your car windows remove them as you will realise the folly of having them when you have been car jacked and watch as you pass police who cannot see you sandwiched between the two thugs with guns on their laps 4. In IT security the greatest threat is from those within which is why now we implement behavior detection solutions not padlocks, razor wire and mirrors to protect our assets let us work on developing intelligence systems that work towards prevention. 5. Tomorrow when you visit some of this highly secure locations after the askari has finished checking your boot asking if a "bomb" can fit under the rear seat or within the spare tire, and when at the reception they ask you to leave behind your ID ask them how they expect your body to be identified if you dropped dead in the corridor - I really hate mediocrity especially when we institutionalize the same. 6. Those who have access to the owners of the paybill number 848484 please ask them if they can provide a toll free number for the police and also connectivity to all the police stations and police posts so that we can finally get back our 999, to hell with 911 I will never remember it when under pressure. 7. If you have access to the CS ICT and the acting head of the KICTA please ask them to include some component of funding to equip the emergency services call center instead of having hackathons to develop applications that will never see the light of day. 8. A year or so ago we raised 1 billion to help those who had been affected by famine and then we killed them faster by sending them grains infected with Aflatoxin yet no one followed up, we have also never seen a comprehensive report on how the funds where used which confirms what has been echoed on this thread - we are rotten to the core both public and private sector 9. We recently had a rogue bus driver kill 41 Kenyans I saw no counseling desks, hash tags, or paybill numbers all because those affected were far removed from those of us who can drive our private cars to the village, what happened on Saturday is a culmination of our arrogant disregard for the less fortunate amongst us. Let us have a uniform response to calamities irrespective of which social strata is affected all of us spent 9 months in our mothers wombs 10. Many of you, I distance myself, do not know what happens in the lives of the many, every day at the various matatu terminus be it in the CBD or the farthest corner of Kayole the owners are being extorted by the so called touts. I calculated the amount recently when waiting to take a matatu home, the stage operators make 100 - 200 shillings from each matatu that originates or terminates at the terminus. An average matatu does 20 trips and there are about 50 matatus on my route, do the math. If the entire security system can look the other way as this goes on right under their noses how do we expect them to identify a terrorist activity? I need to get home, hope I have left you with some food for thought as we participate in implementing and supporting pedestrian solutions to herculean problems Regards PS. Can we take up the setting up of the emergency services system as our CSR? lol Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, 25 September 2013, 15:33 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore Nairobi Homicides per 100,000 people = 4 Memphis, Tennessee No.10 most dangerous US City Murders per 100,000 = 24.5 Top 3 are Flint, Michigan (64.9 murders per 100,000 people), Detroit 54.6/1000 and New Orleans, Louisiana 53.5. With 4 per 100,00, I would say Nairobi, although has work that needs to be done, should be judged first and foremost on the nature of its society and hence these comparative figures...Lack of the 911, police equipment or vehicles, may not be the problem but the accomodating nature of this society...After all, American cities with more than enough emergency lines operators, vehicles and so on are suffering crime rates beyond the realm of Nairobians' imagination (More than 10 times). We are not equipped for terrorist attacks that we have learnt just like NYC learn with 9/11 where many firemen and policemen died rushing into the towers to aid, the important thing is what lessons to draw from here. Otherwise, for someone from say the US or UK which are highly individualistic societies may find the lack of sufficient patrol cars a problem but in a society where informal social support systems pervade every level of society like Kenya's calling the neighbour to help is usually enough. James On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@zilojo.com> wrote: Hello Adam,
I agree with you on all the points below.
The level of professionalism in certain parts of public sector is
diabolical.
When I was in Kigali some time back, a kid told his father - who
had just littered the street with a paper - that if he did not pick it up he would report him to the police...
At iHub, I always pay City Council and ensure I get a receipt.
Which I promptly claim as a business expense.
That helps reduce the tax I pay Ceaser each year.
On 09/25/2013 11:03 AM, Adam Nelson wrote:
I drove by a dead body this morning on the bypass between Wayaki way and Grevillea Grove. He was clearly beaten to death and been there for some time. We called an emergency line and ostensibly the police will come. On Ngong Rd across from Brew Bistro 2 weeks ago a boy was killed by a truck and his body lay on the side of the street for 2 hours (Ngong Rd, one of the busiest in town) before anybody official arrived at the scene.
How can it be expected that the Nairobi police handle one of the most complex hostage crises of the decade when they can't even respond to a dead body on the side of a major thoroughfare within 2 hours?
I visited Kigali 3 weeks ago and what it made me realize is that it's not an 'African thing' or a 'Developing World thing' that Nairobi is a disaster. It's a total lack of excellence at every level of government. Kigali is better run in every respect than Nairobi and for the most part, it just comes down to better management.
I'm not one for recriminations and at a time like this am mostly just sad. In the end, I'm an American and can't effect change here - it's up to Nairobians and Kenyans to say enough is enough and to demand that the public safety system be reformed.
1. A 911 (or 999) emergency call center 2. All police wearing ID numbers and equipped with a ticket book so they can write tickets 3. A new type of police with a different uniform that receive double pay but will be fired if found guilty of corruption 4. All police equipped with a mode of transportation (even just a mountain bike) 5. All police equipped with a radio
Is this too much to ask of a city that bills itself as the capital of anything?
-Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone
________________________________ From: robert yawe Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Editorial from a Saudi Paper
* Something wrong in Kenya
There can be
no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a
country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda
launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the
final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has
got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of
bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue
to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a
multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of
acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/joe.njeru%40zilojo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru - Chief Executive Officer m: +254 722 787725 e: joe.njeru@zilojo.com w: www.zilojo.com o: +254 20 2190873 Map: http://goo.gl/maps/9IVjt Suite B21, Ground Floor, Block B, Silverpool Office Suites, Jabavu Lane, Hurlingham Nairobi, Kenya.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Still related to this thread, probably we need to find out if this info from al-shabaab is true or just propaganda. "@UKenyatta and his govt are to be held culpable for #Westgate and for the lives of the 137 hostages who were being held by the Mujahideen" ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh google ID | Skype ID: lordmwesh On 25 September 2013 16:18, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Kenyans, a new challenge
We have moved up the ranks of international rankings in corruption, child bearing, HIV infections, HIV cures and now let as aim to beat the number of homicides per 100,000 kbfs.
James are you serious?
What I am asking is that we use our talents and be weary of the repercussions when we get to the pearly gates of ahera just to be turned back because we buried ours in the ground for we new our master was a cruel and mean master or reapt where he did not sow.
1. Get the police off the road and lets use the traffic lights and flog those who do not respect them, on the spot. The terrorists must have been in stitches as they passed the various police manned junctions. 2. Those who use county (formerly council) parking on a daily basis please buy seasonal tickets so as to reduce the temptation to bribe, you will also have made sure that your payments gets into the rightful coffers. 3. If you have total dark tint on your car windows remove them as you will realise the folly of having them when you have been car jacked and watch as you pass police who cannot see you sandwiched between the two thugs with guns on their laps 4. In IT security the greatest threat is from those within which is why now we implement behavior detection solutions not padlocks, razor wire and mirrors to protect our assets let us work on developing intelligence systems that work towards prevention. 5. Tomorrow when you visit some of this highly secure locations after the askari has finished checking your boot asking if a "bomb" can fit under the rear seat or within the spare tire, and when at the reception they ask you to leave behind your ID ask them how they expect your body to be identified if you dropped dead in the corridor - I really hate mediocrity especially when we institutionalize the same. 6. Those who have access to the owners of the paybill number 848484 please ask them if they can provide a toll free number for the police and also connectivity to all the police stations and police posts so that we can finally get back our 999, to hell with 911 I will never remember it when under pressure. 7. If you have access to the CS ICT and the acting head of the KICTA please ask them to include some component of funding to equip the emergency services call center instead of having hackathons to develop applications that will never see the light of day. 8. A year or so ago we raised 1 billion to help those who had been affected by famine and then we killed them faster by sending them grains infected with Aflatoxin yet no one followed up, we have also never seen a comprehensive report on how the funds where used which confirms what has been echoed on this thread - we are rotten to the core both public and private sector 9. We recently had a rogue bus driver kill 41 Kenyans I saw no counseling desks, hash tags, or paybill numbers all because those affected were far removed from those of us who can drive our private cars to the village, what happened on Saturday is a culmination of our arrogant disregard for the less fortunate amongst us. Let us have a uniform response to calamities irrespective of which social strata is affected all of us spent 9 months in our mothers wombs 10. Many of you, I distance myself, do not know what happens in the lives of the many, every day at the various matatu terminus be it in the CBD or the farthest corner of Kayole the owners are being extorted by the so called touts. I calculated the amount recently when waiting to take a matatu home, the stage operators make 100 - 200 shillings from each matatu that originates or terminates at the terminus. An average matatu does 20 trips and there are about 50 matatus on my route, do the math.
If the entire security system can look the other way as this goes on right under their noses how do we expect them to identify a terrorist activity?
I need to get home, hope I have left you with some food for thought as we participate in implementing and supporting pedestrian solutions to herculean problems
Regards
PS. Can we take up the setting up of the emergency services system as our CSR? lol
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
------------------------------ *From:* James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, 25 September 2013, 15:33 *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Nairobi Homicides per 100,000 people = 4
Memphis, Tennessee No.10 most dangerous US City Murders per 100,000 = 24.5
Top 3 are Flint, Michigan (64.9 murders per 100,000 people), Detroit 54.6/1000 and New Orleans, Louisiana 53.5.
With 4 per 100,00, I would say Nairobi, although has work that needs to be done, should be judged first and foremost on the nature of its society and hence these comparative figures...Lack of the 911, police equipment or vehicles, may not be the problem but the accomodating nature of this society...After all, American cities with more than enough emergency lines operators, vehicles and so on are suffering crime rates beyond the realm of Nairobians' imagination (More than 10 times).
We are not equipped for terrorist attacks that we have learnt just like NYC learn with 9/11 where many firemen and policemen died rushing into the towers to aid, the important thing is what lessons to draw from here.
Otherwise, for someone from say the US or UK which are highly individualistic societies may find the lack of sufficient patrol cars a problem but in a society where informal social support systems pervade every level of society like Kenya's calling the neighbour to help is usually enough.
James
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@zilojo.com>wrote:
Hello Adam,
I agree with you on all the points below.
The level of professionalism in certain parts of public sector is diabolical.
When I was in Kigali some time back, a kid told his father - who had just littered the street with a paper - that if he did not pick it up he would report him to the police...
At iHub, I always pay City Council and ensure I get a receipt. Which I promptly claim as a business expense.
That helps reduce the tax I pay Ceaser each year.
On 09/25/2013 11:03 AM, Adam Nelson wrote:
I drove by a dead body this morning on the bypass between Wayaki way and Grevillea Grove. He was clearly beaten to death and been there for some time. We called an emergency line and ostensibly the police will come. On Ngong Rd across from Brew Bistro 2 weeks ago a boy was killed by a truck and his body lay on the side of the street for 2 hours (Ngong Rd, one of the busiest in town) before anybody official arrived at the scene.
How can it be expected that the Nairobi police handle one of the most complex hostage crises of the decade when they can't even respond to a dead body on the side of a major thoroughfare within 2 hours?
I visited Kigali 3 weeks ago and what it made me realize is that it's not an 'African thing' or a 'Developing World thing' that Nairobi is a disaster. It's a total lack of excellence at every level of government. Kigali is better run in every respect than Nairobi and for the most part, it just comes down to better management.
I'm not one for recriminations and at a time like this am mostly just sad. In the end, I'm an American and can't effect change here - it's up to Nairobians and Kenyans to say enough is enough and to demand that the public safety system be reformed.
1. A 911 (or 999) emergency call center 2. All police wearing ID numbers and equipped with a ticket book so they can write tickets 3. A new type of police with a different uniform that receive double pay but will be fired if found guilty of corruption 4. All police equipped with a mode of transportation (even just a mountain bike) 5. All police equipped with a radio
Is this too much to ask of a city that bills itself as the capital of anything?
-Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Editorial from a Saudi Paper
- Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru - Chief Executive Officer m: +254 722 787725 e: joe.njeru@zilojo.com <joe.njeru@zilojo.com?Subject=Hello> w: www.zilojo.com o: +254 20 2190873 Map: http://goo.gl/maps/9IVjt *Suite B21, Ground Floor, Block B, Silverpool Office Suites, Jabavu Lane, Hurlingham Nairobi, Kenya.* <http://www.zilojo.com/>
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Thank you James. Our friends here are comparing apples to oranges. Mother Kenya is best despite all the challenges. You cannot for example compare China to India. India may be stinking and more crime, but its people can air their frustration as you doing in the list. You cannot therefore compare Kenya to Rwanda unless you are willing to change our constitution. There is a price for everything. What nation states do is to weigh and adopt to systems that allow indivisible rights to human kind. The Westgate attack would have happened anywhere. More than 30 attempts were thwarted before this successful. Let us not always think that grass is always greener elsewhere. Yes we have corruption but I can vouch for the security team on this one. Ndemo.
Nairobi Homicides per 100,000 people = 4
Memphis, Tennessee No.10 most dangerous US City Murders per 100,000 = 24.5
Top 3 are Flint, Michigan (64.9 murders per 100,000 people), Detroit 54.6/1000 and New Orleans, Louisiana 53.5.
With 4 per 100,00, I would say Nairobi, although has work that needs to be done, should be judged first and foremost on the nature of its society and hence these comparative figures...Lack of the 911, police equipment or vehicles, may not be the problem but the accomodating nature of this society...After all, American cities with more than enough emergency lines operators, vehicles and so on are suffering crime rates beyond the realm of Nairobians' imagination (More than 10 times).
We are not equipped for terrorist attacks that we have learnt just like NYC learn with 9/11 where many firemen and policemen died rushing into the towers to aid, the important thing is what lessons to draw from here.
Otherwise, for someone from say the US or UK which are highly individualistic societies may find the lack of sufficient patrol cars a problem but in a society where informal social support systems pervade every level of society like Kenya's calling the neighbour to help is usually enough.
James
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@zilojo.com>wrote:
Hello Adam,
I agree with you on all the points below.
The level of professionalism in certain parts of public sector is diabolical.
When I was in Kigali some time back, a kid told his father - who had just littered the street with a paper - that if he did not pick it up he would report him to the police...
At iHub, I always pay City Council and ensure I get a receipt. Which I promptly claim as a business expense.
That helps reduce the tax I pay Ceaser each year.
On 09/25/2013 11:03 AM, Adam Nelson wrote:
I drove by a dead body this morning on the bypass between Wayaki way and Grevillea Grove. He was clearly beaten to death and been there for some time. We called an emergency line and ostensibly the police will come. On Ngong Rd across from Brew Bistro 2 weeks ago a boy was killed by a truck and his body lay on the side of the street for 2 hours (Ngong Rd, one of the busiest in town) before anybody official arrived at the scene.
How can it be expected that the Nairobi police handle one of the most complex hostage crises of the decade when they can't even respond to a dead body on the side of a major thoroughfare within 2 hours?
I visited Kigali 3 weeks ago and what it made me realize is that it's not an 'African thing' or a 'Developing World thing' that Nairobi is a disaster. It's a total lack of excellence at every level of government. Kigali is better run in every respect than Nairobi and for the most part, it just comes down to better management.
I'm not one for recriminations and at a time like this am mostly just sad. In the end, I'm an American and can't effect change here - it's up to Nairobians and Kenyans to say enough is enough and to demand that the public safety system be reformed.
1. A 911 (or 999) emergency call center 2. All police wearing ID numbers and equipped with a ticket book so they can write tickets 3. A new type of police with a different uniform that receive double pay but will be fired if found guilty of corruption 4. All police equipped with a mode of transportation (even just a mountain bike) 5. All police equipped with a radio
Is this too much to ask of a city that bills itself as the capital of anything?
-Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore
Editorial from a Saudi Paper
- Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobis Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capitals roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobis Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru - Chief Executive Officer m: +254 722 787725 e: joe.njeru@zilojo.com <joe.njeru@zilojo.com?Subject=Hello> w: www.zilojo.com o: +254 20 2190873 Map: http://goo.gl/maps/9IVjt
*Suite B21, Ground Floor, Block B, Silverpool Office Suites, Jabavu Lane, Hurlingham Nairobi, Kenya.* <http://www.zilojo.com>
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
University of Nairobi Business School, Lower Kabete Campus
I agree with Yawe! Let us not loose the opportunity to suggest solutions because this may not be the last time that we are seeing this sort of senseless attack. People, we will exhaust ourselves with blame! Can we for once imagine the difficulty of the circumstances in which our security were working? Do we for example have an idea of the countless such raids that have either been foiled or minimized? I remember there was an alert that shopping malls would be attacked. Was this like two years ago? People, let us remember that even in the highly secured cctv'd and over-resourced US, gunmen still walk into nursery schools and cinema halls and randomly shoot everyone. Seriously, how is one expected to predict the actions of mad men and a woman? And like a friend of mine has asked me “who would have known that a four year old boy calling a gunman "a bad man" in his face would halt his shooting, produce please of forgiveness from the gunmen, free passage for the boy, sister and mother and even more, the departing gift of Mars bars for the kids from the gunman?” As we heap tons and tons of blame, let us remember that just as a doctor losses a patient/botches up a surgery or an editor runs with a graphic lead photo thinking he is telling the "real" story rather than repulsing his readers - there will always be unfortunate lapses, errors of judgement and plain blunders even in a security intelligence job. What solutions are we offering? We need to move from 'if only' to solutions of preparedness. Solutions, solutions and more solutions! RgdsGrace From: dmbuvi@gmail.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 00:18:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore CC: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation. The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk Sent from my Windows Phone From: robert yawe Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore Editorial from a Saudi Paper Something wrong in Kenya There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions. This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists. Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners. It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen. Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex? Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall. Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Grace, you are spot on! No wonder the bible says the kingdom of God is for those who are like children.adults with their many ideas coming up after the crisis! Jane From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+info=amwik.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Grace Githaiga Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 11:28 AM To: info@amwik.org Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore--Offer solutions. I agree with Yawe! Let us not loose the opportunity to suggest solutions because this may not be the last time that we are seeing this sort of senseless attack. People, we will exhaust ourselves with blame! Can we for once imagine the difficulty of the circumstances in which our security were working? Do we for example have an idea of the countless such raids that have either been foiled or minimized? I remember there was an alert that shopping malls would be attacked. Was this like two years ago? People, let us remember that even in the highly secured cctv'd and over-resourced US, gunmen still walk into nursery schools and cinema halls and randomly shoot everyone. Seriously, how is one expected to predict the actions of mad men and a woman? And like a friend of mine has asked me "who would have known that a four year old boy calling a gunman "a bad man" in his face would halt his shooting, produce please of forgiveness from the gunmen, free passage for the boy, sister and mother and even more, the departing gift of Mars bars for the kids from the gunman?" As we heap tons and tons of blame, let us remember that just as a doctor losses a patient/botches up a surgery or an editor runs with a graphic lead photo thinking he is telling the "real" story rather than repulsing his readers - there will always be unfortunate lapses, errors of judgement and plain blunders even in a security intelligence job. What solutions are we offering? We need to move from 'if only' to solutions of preparedness. Solutions, solutions and more solutions! Rgds Grace _____ From: dmbuvi@gmail.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 00:18:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore CC: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation. The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk Sent from my Windows Phone _____ From: robert yawe <mailto:robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <mailto:dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore Editorial from a Saudi Paper . Something wrong in Kenya There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi's Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions. This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists. Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners. It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital's roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen. Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex? Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall. Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi's Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co m The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@Grace, Very well said. @Adam, Let us not be people who proudly proclaim our Kenyan-ness when the land and its people are benefitting us and immediately claim other nationalities when things go awry. Kenya is what it is, warts and all; corruption, is unfortunately a way of life here. It will take a lot to eliminate the culture. Your actions are a start (though don't you think talking yourself out of a ticket is also a form of corruption even though not of the pecuniary type?J). In these trying times, let us not extricate ourselves from previously proclaimed Kenyan-ness and embrace our nationalities and "how well governed Rwanda" is. Nairobi could certainly do a lot better but it is also a burgeoning metropolis grappling with attendant challenges. It definitely has a much higher ranking internationally than its African peers. John Masiwe Business Development Director & CEO Blue Gate Technologies Ltd - Professional and Quality ICT Services 4th Floor - Bishop Maigua Plaza (opp. Uchumi Hyper - Ngong Rd) Ngong Road, Nairobi P. O. Box 344 - 00600 Nairobi Website: www.bluegate.co.ke | Email: jmasiwe@bluegate.co.ke | Tel: 0725 24 88 00 From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+jmasiwe=bluegate.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Grace Githaiga Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 11:28 AM To: jmasiwe@bluegate.co.ke Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore--Offer solutions. I agree with Yawe! Let us not loose the opportunity to suggest solutions because this may not be the last time that we are seeing this sort of senseless attack. People, we will exhaust ourselves with blame! Can we for once imagine the difficulty of the circumstances in which our security were working? Do we for example have an idea of the countless such raids that have either been foiled or minimized? I remember there was an alert that shopping malls would be attacked. Was this like two years ago? People, let us remember that even in the highly secured cctv'd and over-resourced US, gunmen still walk into nursery schools and cinema halls and randomly shoot everyone. Seriously, how is one expected to predict the actions of mad men and a woman? And like a friend of mine has asked me "who would have known that a four year old boy calling a gunman "a bad man" in his face would halt his shooting, produce please of forgiveness from the gunmen, free passage for the boy, sister and mother and even more, the departing gift of Mars bars for the kids from the gunman?" As we heap tons and tons of blame, let us remember that just as a doctor losses a patient/botches up a surgery or an editor runs with a graphic lead photo thinking he is telling the "real" story rather than repulsing his readers - there will always be unfortunate lapses, errors of judgement and plain blunders even in a security intelligence job. What solutions are we offering? We need to move from 'if only' to solutions of preparedness. Solutions, solutions and more solutions! Rgds Grace _____ From: dmbuvi@gmail.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 00:18:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore CC: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation. The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk Sent from my Windows Phone _____ From: robert yawe <mailto:robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <mailto:dmbuvi@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore Editorial from a Saudi Paper . Something wrong in Kenya There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi's Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions. This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists. Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners. It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital's roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen. Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex? Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall. Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi's Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co m The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8839 (20130924) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
Grace I love your post. Re Saudi newspaper position: If the Saudis would stop exporting Wahabism, there would be neither al qaeda nor al shabaab. Nuff said. Warigia On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 7:48 AM, John Masiwe <jmasiwe@bluegate.co.ke> wrote:
@Grace, ****
** **
Very well said.****
** **
@Adam,****
** **
Let us not be people who proudly proclaim our Kenyan-ness when the land and its people are benefitting us and immediately claim other nationalities when things go awry. Kenya is what it is, warts and all; corruption, is unfortunately a way of life here. It will take a lot to eliminate the culture. Your actions are a start (though don’t you think talking yourself out of a ticket is also a form of corruption even though not of the pecuniary type?J). ****
** **
In these trying times, let us not extricate ourselves from previously proclaimed Kenyan-ness and embrace our nationalities and “how well governed Rwanda” is. Nairobi could certainly do a lot better but it is also a burgeoning metropolis grappling with attendant challenges. It definitely has a much higher ranking internationally than its African peers.****
** **
*John Masiwe***
*Business Development Director & CEO*
*Blue Gate Technologies Ltd - *Professional and Quality ICT Services****
4th Floor – Bishop Maigua Plaza (opp. Uchumi Hyper – Ngong Rd)****
Ngong Road, Nairobi****
P. O. Box 344 – 00600 Nairobi****
Website: www.bluegate.co.ke | Email: jmasiwe@bluegate.co.ke | Tel: 0725 24 88 00****
** **
*From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+jmasiwe= bluegate.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Grace Githaiga
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 25, 2013 11:28 AM *To:* jmasiwe@bluegate.co.ke
*Cc:* kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore--Offer solutions.****
** **
I agree with Yawe! Let us not loose the opportunity to suggest solutions because this may not be the last time that we are seeing this sort of senseless attack. ****
** **
People, we will exhaust ourselves with blame! Can we for once imagine the difficulty of the circumstances in which our security were working? Do we for example have an idea of the countless such raids that have either been foiled or minimized? I remember there was an alert that shopping malls would be attacked. Was this like two years ago? People, let us remember that even in the highly secured cctv'd and over-resourced US, gunmen still walk into nursery schools and cinema halls and randomly shoot everyone.Seriously, how is one expected to predict the actions of mad men and a woman? And like a friend of mine has asked me “who would have known that a four year old boy calling a gunman "a bad man" in his face would halt his shooting, produce please of forgiveness from the gunmen, free passage for the boy, sister and mother and even more, the departing gift of Mars bars for the kids from the gunman?”****
** **
As we heap tons and tons of blame, let us remember that just as a doctor losses a patient/botches up a surgery or an editor runs with a graphic lead photo thinking he is telling the "real" story rather than repulsing his readers - there will always be unfortunate lapses, errors of judgement and plain blunders even in a security intelligence job. What solutions are we offering? We need to move from 'if only' to solutions of preparedness. *** *
** **
Solutions, solutions and more solutions! ****
** **
Rgds****
Grace**** ------------------------------
From: dmbuvi@gmail.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 00:18:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore CC: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com****
A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone**** ------------------------------
*From: *robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *Sent: *25/09/2013 08:29 *To: *Dennis Kioko Mbuvi <dmbuvi@gmail.com> *Cc: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Subject: *[kictanet] Incompetence gallore****
Editorial from a Saudi Paper **** **· **Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.****
** **
** **
** **
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8839 (20130924) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8841 (20130925) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/warigia%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Dr. Warigia Bowman Assistant Professor Clinton School of Public Service University of Arkansas wbowman@clintonschool.uasys.edu ------------------------------------------------- View my research on my SSRN Author page: http://ssrn.com/author=1479660 --------------------------------------------------
the problem with being experts in everything leads me suspect that even if those fellas had been caught before the act, other expert individuals here would have been the harshest condeming "discriminatory human rights violations" obvioulsy citing various sections of the constitution to back their arguments. Sometime its fair to accept can't experts on everything. ________________________________ From: Warigia Bowman <warigia@gmail.com> To: ict.researcher@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore--Offer solutions. Grace I love your post. Re Saudi newspaper position: If the Saudis would stop exporting Wahabism, there would be neither al qaeda nor al shabaab. Nuff said. Warigia On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 7:48 AM, John Masiwe <jmasiwe@bluegate.co.ke> wrote: @Grace,
Very well said. @Adam, Let us not be people who proudly proclaim our Kenyan-ness when the land and its people are benefitting us and immediately claim other nationalities when things go awry. Kenya is what it is, warts and all; corruption, is unfortunately a way of life here. It will take a lot to eliminate the culture. Your actions are a start (though don’t you think talking yourself out of a ticket is also a form of corruption even though not of the pecuniary type?J). In these trying times, let us not extricate ourselves from previously proclaimed Kenyan-ness and embrace our nationalities and “how well governed Rwanda” is. Nairobi could certainly do a lot better but it is also a burgeoning metropolis grappling with attendant challenges. It definitely has a much higher ranking internationally than its African peers. John Masiwe Business Development Director & CEO Blue Gate Technologies Ltd - Professional and Quality ICT Services 4th Floor – Bishop Maigua Plaza (opp. Uchumi Hyper – Ngong Rd) Ngong Road, Nairobi P. O. Box 344 – 00600 Nairobi Website: www.bluegate.co.ke | Email: jmasiwe@bluegate.co.ke | Tel: 0725 24 88 00 From:kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+jmasiwe=bluegate.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Grace Githaiga
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 11:28 AM To: jmasiwe@bluegate.co.ke
Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore--Offer solutions. I agree with Yawe! Let us not loose the opportunity to suggest solutions because this may not be the last time that we are seeing this sort of senseless attack. People, we will exhaust ourselves with blame! Can we for once imagine the difficulty of the circumstances in which our security were working? Do we for example have an idea of the countless such raids that have either been foiled or minimized? I remember there was an alert that shopping malls would be attacked. Was this like two years ago? People, let us remember that even in the highly secured cctv'd and over-resourced US, gunmen still walk into nursery schools and cinema halls and randomly shoot everyone.Seriously, how is one expected to predict the actions of mad men and a woman? And like a friend of mine has asked me “who would have known that a four year old boy calling a gunman "a bad man" in his face would halt his shooting, produce please of forgiveness from the gunmen, free passage for the boy, sister and mother and even more, the departing gift of Mars bars for the kids from the gunman?” As we heap tons and tons of blame, let us remember that just as a doctor losses a patient/botches up a surgery or an editor runs with a graphic lead photo thinking he is telling the "real" story rather than repulsing his readers - there will always be unfortunate lapses, errors of judgement and plain blunders even in a security intelligence job. What solutions are we offering? We need to move from 'if only' to solutions of preparedness. Solutions, solutions and more solutions! Rgds Grace
________________________________
From: dmbuvi@gmail.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 00:18:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore CC: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com A Standard article explains how disorderly and dangerous the operation was, Kenyans troops killed each other, and endangered the lives of hostages in a haphazard operation.
The familiar shoot to kill order was given out http://t.co/M5tJ67KcPk
Sent from my Windows Phone
________________________________
From: robert yawe Sent: 25/09/2013 08:29 To: Dennis Kioko Mbuvi Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: [kictanet] Incompetence gallore Editorial from a Saudi Paper · Something wrong in Kenya
There can be no denying the extraordinary challenges facing the Kenyan government. Yet as the last terrorists were being rooted out of Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall at the end of a slaughter spree that has killed some 70 people and injured hundreds more, the Kenyan authorities need to be asking themselves some hard questions.
This is a country which because it is actively involved in combating Al-Shabab terrorists in Somalia is supposed to be on the very highest state of alert. Kenya did not choose this confrontation. In 1998 it was an amiably corrupt and easygoing country with merely a nasty record of armed robberies, mostly of rich Western tourists.
Then Al-Qaeda launched one of its very first international attacks, a deadly assault on the US embassy in the Kenyan capital which left 224 people dead the great majority of them Kenyans. Thereafter, there was a succession of small attacks by the Al-Qaeda-linked Al-Shabab which culminated in raids on Kenyan coastal tourist resorts and a Somali refugee camp, targeting and kidnapping foreigners.
It was the final straw. Nairobi sent troops into Somali striking Al-Shabab fighters in the rear as they were pressed from the north by African Union forces. Thereafter, the terrorists resorted to low-level violence, mostly hit and run grenade attacks across the Somali border, until the attack by some 15 heavily armed men on the supposedly well-guarded up-market Westgate shopping center. The attackers managed to negotiate their way with all their weaponry through the capital’s roadblocks. They contrived to organize their deadly assault without the Kenyan intelligence services picking up the slightest inkling of what was about to happen.
Something has got to be wrong somewhere. And the closer one looks at the way the tragic events unfolded, the more difficult questions it seems that the Kenyan authorities have to answer. Why for instance did it take almost half an hour for the first properly armed and equipped teams to arrive at the shopping mall? Why was there no proper building evacuation scheme nor any obvious plan to respond to a terrorist outrage within the complex?
Acts of bravery by shopping center staff, individual police officers and ordinary members of the public cannot mask what appears to have been a series of bungles by all those who should have been responsible for the safety of the complex and its visitors. Journalists noted that when heavily-armed special forces arrived, some seemed nervous and confused, perhaps as a result of the shouting that could be heard from senior officers who themselves seemed poorly briefed and unprepared and as a result unsure of how best to proceed. The inevitable report into this horrific event may find that by delaying a rapid and firm response to the attack, the authorities permitted the terrorists to continue their killing spree and also allowed them to consolidate their position within the mall.
Perhaps a clue to what went so disastrously wrong at the Westgate mall can be found in the devastating fire at Nairobi’s Jomo Kenyatta International Airport last month. Though the blaze broke out in the early morning, meaning no one was killed, the extent of the fire and the extraordinary delays in getting fire appliances to the scene raised major questions about the competence of the Kenyan authorities. The Westgate tragedy must compound these serious concerns.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8839 (20130924) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Dr. Warigia Bowman Assistant Professor Clinton School of Public Service University of Arkansas wbowman@clintonschool.uasys.edu------------------------------------------------- View my research on my SSRN Author page: http://ssrn.com/author=1479660 -------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ict.researcher%40yahoo... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (16)
-
Adam Nelson -
Agosta Liko -
Bitange Ndemo -
Dennis Kioko -
Grace Githaiga -
ICT Researcher -
Info -
James Mbugua -
Joe Murithi Njeru -
John Masiwe -
Josiah Mugambi -
Kivuva -
robert yawe -
rsohan＠gmail.com -
S.M. Muraya -
Warigia Bowman