Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics onAffordability- CCKInternetStudyReport
Thnx Harry, to add on to Ur concern, as long as the ISP/IGO licenses are nt reviewed On 5/5/07, Harry Hare <harry@africanedevelopment.org> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
I was hoping to remain a spectator in this debate but looks that is becoming difficult to achieve. I think we need to look at ICT infrastructure and especially connectivity differently. We need to elevate the status and importance of ICT infrastructure to the same level as roads and power. Meaning any new infrastructural development in the country, should have connectivity considerations factored in.
For instance when doing the feasibility study for the new roads soon to be commissioned and to be supported by the Chinese Government, there should be considerations of whether there is need to lay fiber alongside other amenities such as power, lighting, walks ways and sewage.
Regards Harry
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+harry=africanedevelopment.org@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=africanedevelopment.org@kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Lucy Kimani Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:24 AM To: harry@africanedevelopment.org Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics onAffordability- CCKInternetStudyReport
Kai:
I see your point, again I will use my previous domicile as a case in point, the Federal Government is the biggest employer/buyer of supplies and services in the Washington DC metro area (Virginia, Maryland, and of course Washington DC) hence e-governance/e-learning is a must and I think the Kenyan government recognizes this from the various initiatives currently on going, I just think its just a matter of time.
The only point where you and i part ways is your stand that the Government should not be involved in infrastructure building because the Government has an obligation to ensure that all Kenyans have access to the internet while the private sector has to have a business case to justify coverage of any particular area, so I say both efforts Government and Private sector must compliment each other.
With all the initiates on the drawing boards of both the government and the private sector, I say let all move from the drawing boards into implementation, Kai the computers at Kambaa Girls are gathering dust, and Bw. Ndemo, I signed up for both the digital village and digital school during the KICC expo and I have not heard a word on the way forward from your end.
LK
My point is:
Yu have limited room for infrastructure since the cost is constant and only increased usage can drop the price. The Government should NOT be a competitor but a price sensitive user!
You will have enough people now competing for the business of the Government and the private users .. That forces prices down. Having a state owned cable or a state owned Telkom is in my opinion not the way forward.
Rgds
Kai
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Wainaina Mungai Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:35 To: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability- CCKInternetStudyReport
Kai said;
The problem is when you create the demand and then some World Bank money starts to compete before you can recover the cost.. ...The private sector needs the Government as a user there as well as the private companies and consumers. [Only then will the prices drop!]
Pricing I would like to assume that competition from government is as good as competition from other market players. The beauty of competition is in the way it forces the private sector to put a smile on the face of every consumer ;-) so as to guarantee revenue. I am convinced that a significant drop in prices results only from fierce competition and some degree of regulation. TESPOK and others fought for years to introduce competition which resulted in the current lower prices of internet and telephony services.
The recent intervention of CCK on the pricing of mobile services is a case that proves that price controls may become necessary to protect consumers. For internet services, we need many 'small scale' providers whose products and pricing would be more market-driven and responsive to fluctuations in consumer needs.
For instance, an internet user paying KShs. 6,000 per month for DSL per month is actually incurring 14 cents per minute for a 30-day month. This is a great deal for any 24 hour user who may even make money through such access to the internet. The same user would be said to incur 28 cents per minute if s/he were to use the link for an average 12 hours per day at the same monthly rate. There may be a catch here but there is a high probability that more businesses can survive on such low rates and pass such rates down to rural consumer.
--- Wainaina Mungai http://www.madeinkenya.org
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT is development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs.
FROM: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke] ON BEHALF OF Rebecca Wanjiku SENT: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:23 TO: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke SUBJECT: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCKInternetStudyReport
thanks Kai for the response, we need many people responding to this issue,
in my opinion, the government should find a way of using the WB money through the private sector, so that the private sector does not see as if the government is competing and killing the profit margin,
in this regard, the government could come up with some MOU with the private sector so that some of the money invested is government's and
some
PS. that way, part of the profits will be ploughed back (it will be mandatory)
i remember during the OFC workshop, Kai shared how IFC funded a private secotor consortium to carry out some survey at USD 300k and a similar survey carried out by govts was valued at USD 3m
maybe this can help reduce costs and provide a way for govt and PS to work together and deliver quality market services, develop the content and all..
its just an opinion, its not absolute,
lets hear as many voices as possible, it is at these forums/discussions that great ideas come up,
regards
_KAI WULFF <KAI.WULFF@KDN.CO.KE>_ wrote:
Hello,
we leave it to the ISPs to create the demand. We were hoping that with our rural initiatives, like connecting schools and showing them how to educate the parents (and make money with this) will increase the demand on a natural way.
What we have seen wit some Rural BTS, it takes about 12 month until it is
break even ...
The problem is when you create the demand and then some World Bank money starts to compete before you can recover the cost. It is my strong believe that wherever a device can be operated, there WILL be a market. The private sector needs the Government as a user there as well as the private companies and consumers. Only then will the prices drop! We still focus too much on
the INTERNET, what most people need for a start is LOCAL information and communication .. so I would say: 90% local IP traffic and 10% international ..
Kai
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Walumbe" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:26 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCKInternetStudy Report
Walu,
I agree with you that affordablity is a factor especially for rural communities when it comes to access to the internet. But I think that lack of awareness is an even bigger factor. It's fine for the urban folk (who already recognise the benefits to the internet etc.) taking a short break in shags to have the internet access when back home, but it there is no demand for the internet among the residents what is the point?
So does KDN enter a market and then hope to create demand or is their a market that demands the service or is it a little of both?
I understand that Kai would not be venturing into the rural areas if it
did not make any financial sense. Can anyone provide some info/statistics on demand for internet access in rural areas?
Joan Walumbe
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Walubengo" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:01 AM Subject: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCK InternetStudy Report
Day 5- Statistics on Affordability.
I acknowledge an interesting thread filtering in on Trust relationships
b/w IGOs/ISPs...feel free to continue contributing on that as well as on today's theme on affordability (multi-tasking encouraged by internet technologies ...)
and just to pick up from Kai's projection of KDN fiber hitting Bungoma in early August 2007. This would be quite a welcome and timely development, but at what cost to the consumer? To what extend will the (internet) services be affordable to the rural/average communities?
Affordability is a subjective term gven that what is considered cheap by the Bill Gates of this world is probably not so for the average Kenyan on the street. In trying to get an objective measurement for affordability, the Report pegged it on the national average incomes. In other words, if the monthly average income in Kenya is around 100USD and if the average monthly cost for internet access is also around 100USD then obviously the average Kenyan will not bother with accessing the Internet - it just becomes way beyond their means or too expensive or not affordable.
The report indicated that access through the more convenient Internet Dial-up/Desktop services costed over 200% the average incomes (too expensive), while the same access through mobile phones was costing just 8% of the average incomes (quite affordable). What needs to be done in order to make Internet Services more afforable to Kenyans?
1 day deliberation on this one.
walu.
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Tel. 254 720 318 925
blog:http://beckyit.blogspot.com/
--------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out [LINK:
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3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-]
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-- Judy Ann Okite, +254-721237507,+254-734252336 P.O. BOX 2228 00100, NAIROBI,KENYA. "Even if you are on the right track, you'll still get run over if you just sit there."
Dear Colleagues,
I was hoping to remain a spectator in this debate but looks that is becoming difficult to achieve. I think we need to look at ICT infrastructure and especially connectivity differently. We need to elevate the status and importance of ICT infrastructure to the same level as roads and power. Meaning any new infrastructural development in the country, should have connectivity considerations factored in.
For instance when doing the feasibility study for the new roads soon to be commissioned and to be supported by the Chinese Government, there should be considerations of whether there is need to lay fiber alongside other amenities such as power, lighting, walks ways and sewage.
Regards Harry
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+harry=africanedevelopment.org@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=africanedevelopment.org@kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Lucy Kimani Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:24 AM To: harry@africanedevelopment.org Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics onAffordability- CCKInternetStudyReport
Kai:
I see your point, again I will use my previous domicile as a case in point, the Federal Government is the biggest employer/buyer of supplies and services in the Washington DC metro area (Virginia, Maryland, and of course Washington DC) hence e-governance/e-learning is a must and I think the Kenyan government recognizes this from the various initiatives currently on going, I just think its just a matter of time.
The only point where you and i part ways is your stand that the Government should not be involved in infrastructure building because the Government has an obligation to ensure that all Kenyans have access to the internet while the private sector has to have a business case to justify coverage of any particular area, so I say both efforts Government and Private sector must compliment each other.
With all the initiates on the drawing boards of both the government and the private sector, I say let all move from the drawing boards into implementation, Kai the computers at Kambaa Girls are gathering dust, and Bw. Ndemo, I signed up for both the digital village and digital school during the KICC expo and I have not heard a word on the way forward from your end.
LK
My point is:
Yu have limited room for infrastructure since the cost is constant and only increased usage can drop the price. The Government should NOT be a competitor but a price sensitive user!
You will have enough people now competing for the business of the Government and the private users .. That forces prices down. Having a state owned cable or a state owned Telkom is in my opinion not the way forward.
Rgds
Kai
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Wainaina Mungai Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:35 To: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability- CCKInternetStudyReport
Kai said;
The problem is when you create the demand and then some World Bank money starts to compete before you can recover the cost.. ...The private sector needs the Government as a user there as well as the private companies and consumers. [Only then will the prices drop!]
Pricing I would like to assume that competition from government is as good as competition from other market players. The beauty of competition is in
way it forces the private sector to put a smile on the face of every consumer ;-) so as to guarantee revenue. I am convinced that a significant drop in prices results only from fierce competition and some degree of regulation. TESPOK and others fought for years to introduce competition which resulted in the current lower prices of internet and telephony services.
The recent intervention of CCK on the pricing of mobile services is a case that proves that price controls may become necessary to protect consumers. For internet services, we need many 'small scale' providers whose
and pricing would be more market-driven and responsive to fluctuations in consumer needs.
For instance, an internet user paying KShs. 6,000 per month for DSL per month is actually incurring 14 cents per minute for a 30-day month. This is a great deal for any 24 hour user who may even make money through such access to the internet. The same user would be said to incur 28 cents
minute if s/he were to use the link for an average 12 hours per day at
same monthly rate. There may be a catch here but there is a high probability that more businesses can survive on such low rates and pass such rates down to rural consumer.
--- Wainaina Mungai http://www.madeinkenya.org
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT is development that meets the needs of the
without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs.
FROM: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke] ON BEHALF OF Rebecca Wanjiku SENT: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:23 TO: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke SUBJECT: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCKInternetStudyReport
thanks Kai for the response, we need many people responding to this issue,
in my opinion, the government should find a way of using the WB money through the private sector, so that the private sector does not see as if the government is competing and killing the profit margin,
in this regard, the government could come up with some MOU with the private sector so that some of the money invested is government's and
some
PS. that way, part of the profits will be ploughed back (it will be mandatory)
i remember during the OFC workshop, Kai shared how IFC funded a
secotor consortium to carry out some survey at USD 300k and a similar survey carried out by govts was valued at USD 3m
maybe this can help reduce costs and provide a way for govt and PS to work together and deliver quality market services, develop the content and all..
its just an opinion, its not absolute,
lets hear as many voices as possible, it is at these forums/discussions that great ideas come up,
regards
_KAI WULFF <KAI.WULFF@KDN.CO.KE>_ wrote:
Hello,
we leave it to the ISPs to create the demand. We were hoping that with our rural initiatives, like connecting schools and showing them how to educate the parents (and make money with this) will increase the demand on a natural way.
What we have seen wit some Rural BTS, it takes about 12 month until it is
break even ...
The problem is when you create the demand and then some World Bank money starts to compete before you can recover the cost. It is my strong believe that wherever a device can be operated, there WILL be a market. The private sector needs the Government as a user there as well as the private companies and consumers. Only then will the prices drop! We still focus too much on
the INTERNET, what most people need for a start is LOCAL information and communication .. so I would say: 90% local IP traffic and 10% international ..
Kai
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Walumbe" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:26 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCKInternetStudy Report
Walu,
I agree with you that affordablity is a factor especially for rural communities when it comes to access to the internet. But I think
lack
of awareness is an even bigger factor. It's fine for the urban folk (who already recognise the benefits to the internet etc.) taking a short break in shags to have the internet access when back home, but it there is no demand for the internet among the residents what is the point?
So does KDN enter a market and then hope to create demand or is
Lucy, If the Government acts as a buyer of capacity and services in ALL regions of the country and the private sector builds the networks required, you have taken care of the Universal Access requirements, enabled the business case for various layers of private sector companies and avoided to distort the market by creating another state owned utility. Look at the examples where communication has really taken off, the incubator was the demand, not state owned infrastructure. Rgds Kai -----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Judy Okite Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 19:25 To: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics onAffordability-CCKInternetStudyReport Thnx Harry, to add on to Ur concern, as long as the ISP/IGO licenses are nt reviewed On 5/5/07, Harry Hare <harry@africanedevelopment.org> wrote: the products per the present private that their
a
market that demands the service or is it a little of both?
I understand that Kai would not be venturing into the rural areas if it
did not make any financial sense. Can anyone provide some info/statistics on demand for internet access in rural areas?
Joan Walumbe
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Walubengo" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:01 AM Subject: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCK InternetStudy Report
Day 5- Statistics on Affordability.
I acknowledge an interesting thread filtering in on Trust relationships
b/w IGOs/ISPs...feel free to continue contributing on that as well as on today's theme on affordability (multi-tasking encouraged by internet technologies ...)
and just to pick up from Kai's projection of KDN fiber hitting Bungoma in early August 2007. This would be quite a welcome and timely development, but at what cost to the consumer? To what extend will the (internet) services be affordable to the rural/average communities?
Affordability is a subjective term gven that what is considered cheap by the Bill Gates of this world is probably not so for the average Kenyan on the street. In trying to get an objective measurement for affordability, the Report pegged it on the national average incomes. In other words, if the monthly average income in Kenya is around 100USD and if the average monthly cost for internet access is also around 100USD then obviously the average Kenyan will not bother with accessing the Internet - it just becomes way beyond their means or too expensive or not affordable.
The report indicated that access through the more convenient Internet Dial-up/Desktop services costed over 200% the average incomes (too expensive), while the same access through mobile phones was costing just 8% of the average incomes (quite affordable). What needs to be done in order to make Internet Services more afforable to Kenyans?
1 day deliberation on this one.
walu.
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Rebecca Wanjiku, journalist, p.o box 33515, Nairobi.00600 Kenya.
Tel. 254 720 318 925
blog:http://beckyit.blogspot.com/
--------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out [LINK:
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X
3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-]
new cars at Yahoo! Autos. -------------------- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [LINK: compose.php?to=kictanet@kictanet.or.ke] kictanet@kictanet.or.ke [LINK: http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet] http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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rg
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-- Judy Ann Okite, +254-721237507,+254-734252336 P.O. BOX 2228 00100, NAIROBI,KENYA. "Even if you are on the right track, you'll still get run over if you just sit there." _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@kictanet.or.ke http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Please unsubscribe or change your options at http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kai.wulff%40kdn.co.ke
Kai, I support your view entierly. For a long time I have maintained that govt. should support and not compete with Private sector. Sammy Buruchara CEO NairobiNet On May 5, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Kai U. Wulff wrote:
Lucy,
If the Government acts as a buyer of capacity and services in ALL regions of the country and the private sector builds the networks required, you have taken care of the Universal Access requirements, enabled the business case for various layers of private sector companies and avoided to distort the market by creating another state owned utility. Look at the examples where communication has really taken off, the incubator was the demand, not state owned infrastructure.
Rgds
Kai
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Judy Okite Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 19:25 To: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics onAffordability-CCKInternetStudyReport
Thnx Harry, to add on to Ur concern, as long as the ISP/IGO licenses are nt reviewed
Dear Colleagues,
I was hoping to remain a spectator in this debate but looks that is becoming difficult to achieve. I think we need to look at ICT infrastructure and especially connectivity differently. We need to elevate the status and importance of ICT infrastructure to the same level as roads and power. Meaning any new infrastructural development in the country, should have connectivity considerations factored in.
For instance when doing the feasibility study for the new roads soon to be commissioned and to be supported by the Chinese Government, there should be considerations of whether there is need to lay fiber alongside other amenities such as power, lighting, walks ways and sewage.
Regards Harry
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+harry=africanedevelopment.org@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces +harry=africanedevelopment.org@kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Lucy Kimani Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:24 AM To: harry@africanedevelopment.org Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics onAffordability- CCKInternetStudyReport
Kai:
I see your point, again I will use my previous domicile as a case in point, the Federal Government is the biggest employer/buyer of supplies and services in the Washington DC metro area (Virginia, Maryland, and of course Washington DC) hence e-governance/e-learning is a must and I think the Kenyan government recognizes this from the various initiatives currently on going, I just think its just a matter of time.
The only point where you and i part ways is your stand that the Government should not be involved in infrastructure building because the Government has an obligation to ensure that all Kenyans have access to the internet while the private sector has to have a business case to justify coverage of any particular area, so I say both efforts Government and Private sector must compliment each other.
With all the initiates on the drawing boards of both the government and the private sector, I say let all move from the drawing boards into implementation, Kai the computers at Kambaa Girls are gathering dust, and Bw. Ndemo, I signed up for both the digital village and digital school during the KICC expo and I have not heard a word on the way forward from your end.
LK
My point is:
Yu have limited room for infrastructure since the cost is constant and only increased usage can drop the price. The Government should NOT be a competitor but a price sensitive user!
You will have enough people now competing for the business of the Government and the private users .. That forces prices down. Having a state owned cable or a state owned Telkom is in my opinion not the way forward.
Rgds
Kai
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Wainaina Mungai Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:35 To: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability- CCKInternetStudyReport
Kai said;
The problem is when you create the demand and then some World Bank money starts to compete before you can recover the cost.. ...The private sector needs the Government as a user there as well as the private companies and consumers. [Only then will the prices drop!]
Pricing I would like to assume that competition from government is as good as competition from other market players. The beauty of competition is in
way it forces the private sector to put a smile on the face of every consumer ;-) so as to guarantee revenue. I am convinced that a significant drop in prices results only from fierce competition and some degree of regulation. TESPOK and others fought for years to introduce competition which resulted in the current lower prices of internet and telephony services.
The recent intervention of CCK on the pricing of mobile services is a case that proves that price controls may become necessary to protect consumers. For internet services, we need many 'small scale' providers whose
and pricing would be more market-driven and responsive to fluctuations in consumer needs.
For instance, an internet user paying KShs. 6,000 per month for DSL per month is actually incurring 14 cents per minute for a 30-day month. This is a great deal for any 24 hour user who may even make money through such access to the internet. The same user would be said to incur 28 cents
minute if s/he were to use the link for an average 12 hours per day at
same monthly rate. There may be a catch here but there is a high probability that more businesses can survive on such low rates and pass such rates down to rural consumer.
--- Wainaina Mungai http://www.madeinkenya.org
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT is development that meets the needs of the
without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs.
FROM: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke] ON BEHALF OF Rebecca Wanjiku SENT: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:23 TO: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke SUBJECT: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCKInternetStudyReport
thanks Kai for the response, we need many people responding to this issue,
in my opinion, the government should find a way of using the WB money through the private sector, so that the private sector does not see as if the government is competing and killing the profit margin,
in this regard, the government could come up with some MOU with the private sector so that some of the money invested is government's and
some
PS. that way, part of the profits will be ploughed back (it will be mandatory)
i remember during the OFC workshop, Kai shared how IFC funded a
secotor consortium to carry out some survey at USD 300k and a similar survey carried out by govts was valued at USD 3m
maybe this can help reduce costs and provide a way for govt and PS to work together and deliver quality market services, develop the content and all..
its just an opinion, its not absolute,
lets hear as many voices as possible, it is at these forums/discussions that great ideas come up,
regards
_KAI WULFF <KAI.WULFF@KDN.CO.KE>_ wrote:
Hello,
we leave it to the ISPs to create the demand. We were hoping that with our rural initiatives, like connecting schools and showing them how to educate the parents (and make money with this) will increase the demand on a natural way.
What we have seen wit some Rural BTS, it takes about 12 month until it is
break even ...
The problem is when you create the demand and then some World Bank money starts to compete before you can recover the cost. It is my strong believe that wherever a device can be operated, there WILL be a market. The private sector needs the Government as a user there as well as the private companies and consumers. Only then will the prices drop! We still focus too much on
the INTERNET, what most people need for a start is LOCAL information and communication .. so I would say: 90% local IP traffic and 10% international ..
Kai
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Walumbe" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:26 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCKInternetStudy Report
Walu,
I agree with you that affordablity is a factor especially for rural communities when it comes to access to the internet. But I think
lack
of awareness is an even bigger factor. It's fine for the urban folk (who already recognise the benefits to the internet etc.) taking a short break in shags to have the internet access when back home, but it there is no demand for the internet among the residents what is the point?
So does KDN enter a market and then hope to create demand or is
On 5/5/07, Harry Hare <harry@africanedevelopment.org> wrote: the products per the present private that their
a
market that demands the service or is it a little of both?
I understand that Kai would not be venturing into the rural areas if it
did not make any financial sense. Can anyone provide some info/statistics on demand for internet access in rural areas?
Joan Walumbe
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Walubengo" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:01 AM Subject: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCK InternetStudy Report
Day 5- Statistics on Affordability.
I acknowledge an interesting thread filtering in on Trust relationships
b/w IGOs/ISPs...feel free to continue contributing on that as well as on today's theme on affordability (multi-tasking encouraged by internet technologies ...)
and just to pick up from Kai's projection of KDN fiber hitting Bungoma in early August 2007. This would be quite a welcome and timely development, but at what cost to the consumer? To what extend will the (internet) services be affordable to the rural/average communities?
Affordability is a subjective term gven that what is considered cheap by the Bill Gates of this world is probably not so for the average Kenyan on the street. In trying to get an objective measurement for affordability, the Report pegged it on the national average incomes. In other words, if the monthly average income in Kenya is around 100USD and if the average monthly cost for internet access is also around 100USD then obviously the average Kenyan will not bother with accessing the Internet - it just becomes way beyond their means or too expensive or not affordable.
The report indicated that access through the more convenient Internet Dial-up/Desktop services costed over 200% the average incomes (too expensive), while the same access through mobile phones was costing just 8% of the average incomes (quite affordable). What needs to be done in order to make Internet Services more afforable to Kenyans?
1 day deliberation on this one.
walu.
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Tel. 254 720 318 925
blog:http://beckyit.blogspot.com/
--------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out [LINK:
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/ new_cars.html;_ylc=X
3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-]
new cars at Yahoo! Autos. -------------------- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [LINK: compose.php?to=kictanet@kictanet.or.ke] kictanet@kictanet.or.ke [LINK: http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet] http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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-- Judy Ann Okite, +254-721237507,+254-734252336 P.O. BOX 2228 00100, NAIROBI,KENYA.
"Even if you are on the right track, you'll still get run over if you just sit there."
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No cost reduction/tax waiver on modems,poles,switches etc the basics of internet connection On 5/5/07, Judy Okite <judyokite@gmail.com> wrote:
Thnx Harry, to add on to Ur concern, as long as the ISP/IGO licenses are nt reviewed
Dear Colleagues,
I was hoping to remain a spectator in this debate but looks that is becoming difficult to achieve. I think we need to look at ICT infrastructure and especially connectivity differently. We need to elevate the status and importance of ICT infrastructure to the same level as roads and power. Meaning any new infrastructural development in the country, should have connectivity considerations factored in.
For instance when doing the feasibility study for the new roads soon to be commissioned and to be supported by the Chinese Government, there should be considerations of whether there is need to lay fiber alongside other amenities such as power, lighting, walks ways and sewage.
Regards Harry
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+harry=africanedevelopment.org@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=africanedevelopment.org@kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Lucy Kimani Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:24 AM To: harry@africanedevelopment.org Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics onAffordability- CCKInternetStudyReport
Kai:
I see your point, again I will use my previous domicile as a case in point, the Federal Government is the biggest employer/buyer of supplies and services in the Washington DC metro area (Virginia, Maryland, and of course Washington DC) hence e-governance/e-learning is a must and I think the Kenyan government recognizes this from the various initiatives currently on going, I just think its just a matter of time.
The only point where you and i part ways is your stand that the Government should not be involved in infrastructure building because the Government has an obligation to ensure that all Kenyans have access to the internet while the private sector has to have a business case to justify coverage of any particular area, so I say both efforts Government and Private sector must compliment each other.
With all the initiates on the drawing boards of both the government and the private sector, I say let all move from the drawing boards into implementation, Kai the computers at Kambaa Girls are gathering dust, and Bw. Ndemo, I signed up for both the digital village and digital school during the KICC expo and I have not heard a word on the way forward from your end.
LK
My point is:
Yu have limited room for infrastructure since the cost is constant and only increased usage can drop the price. The Government should NOT be a competitor but a price sensitive user!
You will have enough people now competing for the business of the Government and the private users .. That forces prices down. Having a state owned cable or a state owned Telkom is in my opinion not the way forward.
Rgds
Kai
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Wainaina Mungai Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:35 To: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability- CCKInternetStudyReport
Kai said;
The problem is when you create the demand and then some World Bank money starts to compete before you can recover the cost.. ...The private sector needs the Government as a user there as well as the private companies and consumers. [Only then will the prices drop!]
Pricing I would like to assume that competition from government is as good as competition from other market players. The beauty of competition is in
way it forces the private sector to put a smile on the face of every consumer ;-) so as to guarantee revenue. I am convinced that a significant drop in prices results only from fierce competition and some degree of regulation. TESPOK and others fought for years to introduce competition which resulted in the current lower prices of internet and telephony services.
The recent intervention of CCK on the pricing of mobile services is a case that proves that price controls may become necessary to protect consumers. For internet services, we need many 'small scale' providers whose
and pricing would be more market-driven and responsive to fluctuations in consumer needs.
For instance, an internet user paying KShs. 6,000 per month for DSL per month is actually incurring 14 cents per minute for a 30-day month. This is a great deal for any 24 hour user who may even make money through such access to the internet. The same user would be said to incur 28 cents
minute if s/he were to use the link for an average 12 hours per day at
same monthly rate. There may be a catch here but there is a high probability that more businesses can survive on such low rates and pass such rates down to rural consumer.
--- Wainaina Mungai http://www.madeinkenya.org
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT is development that meets the needs of the
without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs.
FROM: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke] ON BEHALF OF Rebecca Wanjiku SENT: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:23 TO: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke SUBJECT: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCKInternetStudyReport
thanks Kai for the response, we need many people responding to this issue,
in my opinion, the government should find a way of using the WB money through the private sector, so that the private sector does not see as if the government is competing and killing the profit margin,
in this regard, the government could come up with some MOU with the private sector so that some of the money invested is government's and
some
PS. that way, part of the profits will be ploughed back (it will be mandatory)
i remember during the OFC workshop, Kai shared how IFC funded a
secotor consortium to carry out some survey at USD 300k and a similar survey carried out by govts was valued at USD 3m
maybe this can help reduce costs and provide a way for govt and PS to work together and deliver quality market services, develop the content and all..
its just an opinion, its not absolute,
lets hear as many voices as possible, it is at these forums/discussions that great ideas come up,
regards
_KAI WULFF <KAI.WULFF@KDN.CO.KE>_ wrote:
Hello,
we leave it to the ISPs to create the demand. We were hoping that with our rural initiatives, like connecting schools and showing them how to educate the parents (and make money with this) will increase the demand on a natural way.
What we have seen wit some Rural BTS, it takes about 12 month until it is
break even ...
The problem is when you create the demand and then some World Bank money starts to compete before you can recover the cost. It is my strong believe that wherever a device can be operated, there WILL be a market. The private sector needs the Government as a user there as well as the private companies and consumers. Only then will the prices drop! We still focus too much on
the INTERNET, what most people need for a start is LOCAL information and communication .. so I would say: 90% local IP traffic and 10% international ..
Kai
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Walumbe" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:26 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCKInternetStudy Report
Walu,
I agree with you that affordablity is a factor especially for rural communities when it comes to access to the internet. But I think
lack
of awareness is an even bigger factor. It's fine for the urban folk (who already recognise the benefits to the internet etc.) taking a short break in shags to have the internet access when back home, but it there is no demand for the internet among the residents what is the point?
So does KDN enter a market and then hope to create demand or is
On 5/5/07, Harry Hare <harry@africanedevelopment.org> wrote: the products per the present private that their
a
market that demands the service or is it a little of both?
I understand that Kai would not be venturing into the rural areas if it
did not make any financial sense. Can anyone provide some info/statistics on demand for internet access in rural areas?
Joan Walumbe
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Walubengo" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:01 AM Subject: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCK InternetStudy Report
Day 5- Statistics on Affordability.
I acknowledge an interesting thread filtering in on Trust relationships
b/w IGOs/ISPs...feel free to continue contributing on that as well as on today's theme on affordability (multi-tasking encouraged by internet technologies ...)
and just to pick up from Kai's projection of KDN fiber hitting Bungoma in early August 2007. This would be quite a welcome and timely development, but at what cost to the consumer? To what extend will the (internet) services be affordable to the rural/average communities?
Affordability is a subjective term gven that what is considered cheap by the Bill Gates of this world is probably not so for the average Kenyan on the street. In trying to get an objective measurement for affordability, the Report pegged it on the national average incomes. In other words, if the monthly average income in Kenya is around 100USD and if the average monthly cost for internet access is also around 100USD then obviously the average Kenyan will not bother with accessing the Internet - it just becomes way beyond their means or too expensive or not affordable.
The report indicated that access through the more convenient Internet Dial-up/Desktop services costed over 200% the average incomes (too expensive), while the same access through mobile phones was costing just 8% of the average incomes (quite affordable). What needs to be done in order to make Internet Services more afforable to Kenyans?
1 day deliberation on this one.
walu.
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Rebecca Wanjiku, journalist, p.o box 33515, Nairobi.00600 Kenya.
Tel. 254 720 318 925
blog:http://beckyit.blogspot.com/
--------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out [LINK:
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X
3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-]
new cars at Yahoo! Autos. -------------------- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [LINK: compose.php?to=kictanet@kictanet.or.ke] kictanet@kictanet.or.ke [LINK: http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet] http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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-- Judy Ann Okite, +254-721237507,+254-734252336 P.O. BOX 2228 00100, NAIROBI,KENYA.
"Even if you are on the right track, you'll still get run over if you just sit there."
-- Judy Ann Okite, +254-721237507,+254-734252336 P.O. BOX 2228 00100, NAIROBI,KENYA. "Even if you are on the right track, you'll still get run over if you just sit there."
Then there mayb need to re-define 'cheap' ,because someone has to pay the cost....Consumer? Kind Regards, On 5/5/07, Judy Okite <judyokite@gmail.com> wrote:
No cost reduction/tax waiver on modems,poles,switches etc the basics of internet connection
Thnx Harry, to add on to Ur concern, as long as the ISP/IGO licenses are nt reviewed
On 5/5/07, Harry Hare <harry@africanedevelopment.org> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
I was hoping to remain a spectator in this debate but looks that is becoming difficult to achieve. I think we need to look at ICT infrastructure and especially connectivity differently. We need to elevate the status and importance of ICT infrastructure to the same level as roads and power. Meaning any new infrastructural development in the country, should have connectivity considerations factored in.
For instance when doing the feasibility study for the new roads soon to be commissioned and to be supported by the Chinese Government, there should be considerations of whether there is need to lay fiber alongside other amenities such as power, lighting, walks ways and sewage.
Regards Harry
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+harry=africanedevelopment.org@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=africanedevelopment.org@kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Lucy Kimani Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:24 AM To: harry@africanedevelopment.org Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics onAffordability- CCKInternetStudyReport
Kai:
I see your point, again I will use my previous domicile as a case in point, the Federal Government is the biggest employer/buyer of supplies and services in the Washington DC metro area (Virginia, Maryland, and of course Washington DC) hence e-governance/e-learning is a must and I
the Kenyan government recognizes this from the various initiatives currently on going, I just think its just a matter of time.
The only point where you and i part ways is your stand that the Government should not be involved in infrastructure building because the Government has an obligation to ensure that all Kenyans have access to the internet while the private sector has to have a business case to justify coverage of any particular area, so I say both efforts Government and Private sector must compliment each other.
With all the initiates on the drawing boards of both the government and the private sector, I say let all move from the drawing boards into implementation, Kai the computers at Kambaa Girls are gathering dust, and Bw. Ndemo, I signed up for both the digital village and digital school during the KICC expo and I have not heard a word on the way forward from your end.
LK
My point is:
Yu have limited room for infrastructure since the cost is constant and only increased usage can drop the price. The Government should NOT be a competitor but a price sensitive user!
You will have enough people now competing for the business of the Government and the private users .. That forces prices down. Having a state owned cable or a state owned Telkom is in my opinion not the way forward.
Rgds
Kai
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Wainaina Mungai Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:35 To: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability- CCKInternetStudyReport
Kai said;
The problem is when you create the demand and then some World Bank money starts to compete before you can recover the cost.. ...The private sector needs the Government as a user there as well as the private companies and consumers. [Only then will the prices drop!]
Pricing I would like to assume that competition from government is as good as competition from other market players. The beauty of competition is in the way it forces the private sector to put a smile on the face of every consumer ;-) so as to guarantee revenue. I am convinced that a significant drop in prices results only from fierce competition and some degree of regulation. TESPOK and others fought for years to introduce competition which resulted in the current lower prices of internet and telephony services.
The recent intervention of CCK on the pricing of mobile services is a case that proves that price controls may become necessary to protect consumers. For internet services, we need many 'small scale' providers whose products and pricing would be more market-driven and responsive to fluctuations in consumer needs.
For instance, an internet user paying KShs. 6,000 per month for DSL
On 5/5/07, Judy Okite <judyokite@gmail.com> wrote: think per
month is actually incurring 14 cents per minute for a 30-day month. This is a great deal for any 24 hour user who may even make money through such access to the internet. The same user would be said to incur 28 cents per minute if s/he were to use the link for an average 12 hours per day at the same monthly rate. There may be a catch here but there is a high probability that more businesses can survive on such low rates and pass such rates down to rural consumer.
--- Wainaina Mungai http://www.madeinkenya.org
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT is development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs.
FROM: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@kictanet.or.ke] ON
OF Rebecca Wanjiku SENT: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:23 TO: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke SUBJECT: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCKInternetStudyReport
thanks Kai for the response, we need many people responding to this issue,
in my opinion, the government should find a way of using the WB money through the private sector, so that the private sector does not see as if the government is competing and killing the profit margin,
in this regard, the government could come up with some MOU with the private sector so that some of the money invested is government's and some PS. that way, part of the profits will be ploughed back (it will be mandatory)
i remember during the OFC workshop, Kai shared how IFC funded a
secotor consortium to carry out some survey at USD 300k and a similar survey carried out by govts was valued at USD 3m
maybe this can help reduce costs and provide a way for govt and PS to work together and deliver quality market services, develop the content and all..
its just an opinion, its not absolute,
lets hear as many voices as possible, it is at these forums/discussions that great ideas come up,
regards
_KAI WULFF <KAI.WULFF@KDN.CO.KE>_ wrote:
Hello,
we leave it to the ISPs to create the demand. We were hoping that with our rural initiatives, like connecting schools and showing them how to educate the parents (and make money with this) will increase the demand on a natural way.
What we have seen wit some Rural BTS, it takes about 12 month until it is
break even ...
The problem is when you create the demand and then some World Bank money starts to compete before you can recover the cost. It is my strong believe that wherever a device can be operated, there WILL be a market. The private sector needs the Government as a user there as well as the private companies and consumers. Only then will the prices drop! We still focus too much on
the INTERNET, what most people need for a start is LOCAL information and communication .. so I would say: 90% local IP traffic and 10% international ..
Kai
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Walumbe" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:26 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCKInternetStudy Report
Walu,
I agree with you that affordablity is a factor especially for rural communities when it comes to access to the internet. But I think
lack
of awareness is an even bigger factor. It's fine for the urban folk (who already recognise the benefits to the internet etc.) taking a short break in shags to have the internet access when back home, but it there is no demand for the internet among the residents what is the point?
So does KDN enter a market and then hope to create demand or is
BEHALF private that their
a
market that demands the service or is it a little of both?
I understand that Kai would not be venturing into the rural areas if it
did not make any financial sense. Can anyone provide some info/statistics on demand for internet access in rural areas?
Joan Walumbe
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Walubengo" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:01 AM Subject: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCK InternetStudy Report
Day 5- Statistics on Affordability.
I acknowledge an interesting thread filtering in on Trust relationships
b/w IGOs/ISPs...feel free to continue contributing on that as well as on today's theme on affordability (multi-tasking encouraged by internet technologies ...)
and just to pick up from Kai's projection of KDN fiber hitting Bungoma in early August 2007. This would be quite a welcome and timely development, but at what cost to the consumer? To what extend will the (internet) services be affordable to the rural/average communities?
Affordability is a subjective term gven that what is considered cheap by the Bill Gates of this world is probably not so for the average Kenyan on the street. In trying to get an objective measurement for affordability, the Report pegged it on the national average incomes. In other words, if the monthly average income in Kenya is around 100USD and if the average monthly cost for internet access is also around 100USD then obviously the average Kenyan will not bother with accessing the Internet - it just becomes way beyond their means or too expensive or not affordable.
The report indicated that access through the more convenient Internet Dial-up/Desktop services costed over 200% the average incomes (too expensive), while the same access through mobile phones was costing just 8% of the average incomes (quite affordable). What needs to be done in order to make Internet Services more afforable to Kenyans?
1 day deliberation on this one.
walu.
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participants (3)
-
Judy Okite -
Kai U. Wulff -
Sammy Buruchara