IFMIS Reloaded? Is this the silver bullet to corruption? Or is it just another PR exercise in futility?
Listers There has been a lot said about IFMIS and how it's supposed to have revolutionized Government accountability and spending. There are as many detractors as there are supporters. What is the real story? Can someone in Treasury/ICTA share with us how this Government ERP has fared since its inception? See links below from the same media group that have different stories to tell about the success/failure of IFMIS http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/New-cashflow-audit-system-rolled-out-in-w... http://mobile.nation.co.ke/business/Treasury-ministries-in-row-over-use-of-I... It would be good to get a 'State of IFMIS' report from the Treasury. Ali Hussein +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113 "Kujikwaa si kuanguka, bali ni kwenda mbele" (To stumble is not to fall but a sign of going forward) - Swahili Proverb Sent from my iPad
Thanks Ali for sharing the articles. Clearly this is resistance to technology and we can only guess the reasons. How do you explain the errors with a technology that has been in use for over a decade? I think there is a deliberate move to discredit the IFMIS. RgdsGG From: ali@hussein.me.ke Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 07:01:20 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] IFMIS Reloaded? Is this the silver bullet to corruption? Or is it just another PR exercise in futility? CC: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com Listers There has been a lot said about IFMIS and how it's supposed to have revolutionized Government accountability and spending. There are as many detractors as there are supporters. What is the real story? Can someone in Treasury/ICTA share with us how this Government ERP has fared since its inception? See links below from the same media group that have different stories to tell about the success/failure of IFMIS http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/New-cashflow-audit-system-rolled-out-in-w... http://mobile.nation.co.ke/business/Treasury-ministries-in-row-over-use-of-I... It would be good to get a 'State of IFMIS' report from the Treasury. Ali Hussein +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113 "Kujikwaa si kuanguka, bali ni kwenda mbele" (To stumble is not to fall but a sign of going forward) - Swahili Proverb Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
DIFFERENT STROKES. malawi's take on IFMIS http://www.maravipost.com/national/society/4680-over-k1-2-billion-plundered-... On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Listers
There has been a lot said about IFMIS and how it's supposed to have revolutionized Government accountability and spending. There are as many detractors as there are supporters.
What is the real story?
Can someone in Treasury/ICTA share with us how this Government ERP has fared since its inception?
See links below from the same media group that have different stories to tell about the success/failure of IFMIS
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/New-cashflow-audit-system-rolled-out-in-w...
http://mobile.nation.co.ke/business/Treasury-ministries-in-row-over-use-of-I...
It would be good to get a 'State of IFMIS' report from the Treasury.
Ali Hussein
+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
"Kujikwaa si kuanguka, bali ni kwenda mbele" (To stumble is not to fall but a sign of going forward) - Swahili Proverb
Sent from my iPad
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- * Warm Regards, PETER WAKABA AFRICA BUSINESS EDITOR, CCTV AFRICA Every morning in Africa, a gazelle wakes up, It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a lion wakes up, it knows it must outrun the slowest gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn't matter whether you are a gazelle or a lion. When the sun comes up, you better start running. - In "The World is Flat" by Thomas L. Friedman.*
And the conflicting information on the success or otherwise of IFMIS continues... http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000095178&story_title=shock-of-the-lost-billions Ali Hussein +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113 "Kujikwaa si kuanguka, bali ni kwenda mbele" (To stumble is not to fall but a sign of going forward) - Swahili Proverb Sent from my iPad
On Oct 9, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Peter Wakaba <peterwakaba@gmail.com> wrote:
DIFFERENT STROKES.
malawi's take on IFMIS
http://www.maravipost.com/national/society/4680-over-k1-2-billion-plundered-...
On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Listers
There has been a lot said about IFMIS and how it's supposed to have revolutionized Government accountability and spending. There are as many detractors as there are supporters.
What is the real story?
Can someone in Treasury/ICTA share with us how this Government ERP has fared since its inception?
See links below from the same media group that have different stories to tell about the success/failure of IFMIS
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/New-cashflow-audit-system-rolled-out-in-w...
http://mobile.nation.co.ke/business/Treasury-ministries-in-row-over-use-of-I...
It would be good to get a 'State of IFMIS' report from the Treasury.
Ali Hussein
+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
"Kujikwaa si kuanguka, bali ni kwenda mbele" (To stumble is not to fall but a sign of going forward) - Swahili Proverb
Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/peterwakaba%40gmail.co...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Warm Regards,
PETER WAKABA AFRICA BUSINESS EDITOR, CCTV AFRICA
Every morning in Africa, a gazelle wakes up, It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a lion wakes up, it knows it must outrun the slowest gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn't matter whether you are a gazelle or a lion. When the sun comes up, you better start running. - In "The World is Flat" by Thomas L. Friedman.
What all systemic failures have in common is human beings. Any system can be corrupted if the objective of those using it is corrupting the system… Governments have existed with more services, higher revenue collection and lower corruption than Kenya for several years, without IT. -- Warm Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ | On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Ali Hussein wrote:
Listers
There has been a lot said about IFMIS and how it's supposed to have revolutionized Government accountability and spending. There are as many detractors as there are supporters.
What is the real story?
Can someone in Treasury/ICTA share with us how this Government ERP has fared since its inception?
See links below from the same media group that have different stories to tell about the success/failure of IFMIS
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/New-cashflow-audit-system-rolled-out-in-w...
http://mobile.nation.co.ke/business/Treasury-ministries-in-row-over-use-of-I...
It would be good to get a 'State of IFMIS' report from the Treasury.
Ali Hussein
+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
"Kujikwaa si kuanguka, bali ni kwenda mbele" (To stumble is not to fall but a sign of going forward) - Swahili Proverb
Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke (mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke) https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Phares I agree with the principle of GIGO (Garbage In Garbage Out). I would however respectfully disagree with your sentence:-
'Governments have existed with more services, higher revenue collection and lower corruption than Kenya for several years, without IT.'
Whilst it is true that corruption will exist with or without IT it factually untrue that in today's world governments can deliver faster, more efficient services without IT. Of course I'm happy to stand corrected if you could but just give me some cases where this has happened. Ali Hussein +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113 "Kujikwaa si kuanguka, bali ni kwenda mbele" (To stumble is not to fall but a sign of going forward) - Swahili Proverb Sent from my iPad
On Oct 9, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
What all systemic failures have in common is human beings.
Any system can be corrupted if the objective of those using it is corrupting the system…
Governments have existed with more services, higher revenue collection and lower corruption than Kenya for several years, without IT.
-- > Warm Regards, Phares Kariuki > >
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Ali Hussein wrote:
Listers
There has been a lot said about IFMIS and how it's supposed to have revolutionized Government accountability and spending. There are as many detractors as there are supporters.
What is the real story?
Can someone in Treasury/ICTA share with us how this Government ERP has fared since its inception?
See links below from the same media group that have different stories to tell about the success/failure of IFMIS
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/New-cashflow-audit-system-rolled-out-in-w...
http://mobile.nation.co.ke/business/Treasury-ministries-in-row-over-use-of-I...
It would be good to get a 'State of IFMIS' report from the Treasury.
Ali Hussein
+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
"Kujikwaa si kuanguka, bali ni kwenda mbele" (To stumble is not to fall but a sign of going forward) - Swahili Proverb
Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Ali, I am not saying that paper based bureaucracies are the best way to go, just that IT, poorly designed might lead to inefficiency and a paper/phone based system, well designed an implemented can have better results. A good example is our unmanned 999 emergency numbers. Great technical solution, nobody picks. In most cities in the world, around 50 years ago, someone would pick and get there. There were no cell phones, but you just had to get to a landline. We can easily reach our government through twitter today. The government doesn't value our feedback… Historically, letters worked. Chairman Mao's (poor example in this context, but he had a brilliant intelligence system that was used to get rid of dissidents) that was heavily paper based… My point is, we need to focus on why the systems are failing, aside from technology. There's nothing new in government. As an example, the government feedback loop. We complain about the price of maize flour, ancient Romans complained about the price of grain. Whether we are using homing pigeons or tweets, if the government feedback mechanisms work and said government is responsive the government will resolve the price issue in good time, if it does not, it won't… So, in the case of an ancient roman emperor who's concerned about the price of grain, who responds to a citizens letter 3 weeks later or the case of a Kenyan leader, who ignores the citizen's tweets, the ancient roman emperor is more efficient… We've been complaining about the price of milk for the last 4 odd years, it keeps rising, along with the cost of living, inflation etc -- Warm Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ | On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Ali Hussein wrote:
Phares
I agree with the principle of GIGO (Garbage In Garbage Out).
I would however respectfully disagree with your sentence:-
'Governments have existed with more services, higher revenue collection and lower corruption than Kenya for several years, without IT.'
Whilst it is true that corruption will exist with or without IT it factually untrue that in today's world governments can deliver faster, more efficient services without IT. Of course I'm happy to stand corrected if you could but just give me some cases where this has happened.
Ali Hussein
+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
"Kujikwaa si kuanguka, bali ni kwenda mbele" (To stumble is not to fall but a sign of going forward) - Swahili Proverb
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 9, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com (mailto:pkariuki@gmail.com)> wrote:
What all systemic failures have in common is human beings.
Any system can be corrupted if the objective of those using it is corrupting the system…
Governments have existed with more services, higher revenue collection and lower corruption than Kenya for several years, without IT.
-- Warm Regards, Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com (mailto:pkariuki@gmail.com) | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Ali Hussein wrote:
Listers
There has been a lot said about IFMIS and how it's supposed to have revolutionized Government accountability and spending. There are as many detractors as there are supporters.
What is the real story?
Can someone in Treasury/ICTA share with us how this Government ERP has fared since its inception?
See links below from the same media group that have different stories to tell about the success/failure of IFMIS
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/New-cashflow-audit-system-rolled-out-in-w...
http://mobile.nation.co.ke/business/Treasury-ministries-in-row-over-use-of-I...
It would be good to get a 'State of IFMIS' report from the Treasury.
Ali Hussein
+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
"Kujikwaa si kuanguka, bali ni kwenda mbele" (To stumble is not to fall but a sign of going forward) - Swahili Proverb
Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke (mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke) https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Phares Valid arguments that go beyond technology..but point made. I would however caution about complaining to the government about everything including the price of milk..less government in my humble opinion is better than an over bearing big brother.. PS. I love your argument about the Roman Emperor...I hope someone up there in the ivory tower is listening...:) Ali Hussein +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113 "Kujikwaa si kuanguka, bali ni kwenda mbele" (To stumble is not to fall but a sign of going forward) - Swahili Proverb Sent from my iPad
On Oct 9, 2013, at 4:45 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Ali,
I am not saying that paper based bureaucracies are the best way to go, just that IT, poorly designed might lead to inefficiency and a paper/phone based system, well designed an implemented can have better results. A good example is our unmanned 999 emergency numbers. Great technical solution, nobody picks. In most cities in the world, around 50 years ago, someone would pick and get there. There were no cell phones, but you just had to get to a landline.
We can easily reach our government through twitter today. The government doesn't value our feedback… Historically, letters worked. Chairman Mao's (poor example in this context, but he had a brilliant intelligence system that was used to get rid of dissidents) that was heavily paper based…
My point is, we need to focus on why the systems are failing, aside from technology. There's nothing new in government. As an example, the government feedback loop. We complain about the price of maize flour, ancient Romans complained about the price of grain. Whether we are using homing pigeons or tweets, if the government feedback mechanisms work and said government is responsive the government will resolve the price issue in good time, if it does not, it won't… So, in the case of an ancient roman emperor who's concerned about the price of grain, who responds to a citizens letter 3 weeks later or the case of a Kenyan leader, who ignores the citizen's tweets, the ancient roman emperor is more efficient…
We've been complaining about the price of milk for the last 4 odd years, it keeps rising, along with the cost of living, inflation etc
-- > Warm Regards, Phares Kariuki > >
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Ali Hussein wrote:
Phares
I agree with the principle of GIGO (Garbage In Garbage Out).
I would however respectfully disagree with your sentence:-
'Governments have existed with more services, higher revenue collection and lower corruption than Kenya for several years, without IT.'
Whilst it is true that corruption will exist with or without IT it factually untrue that in today's world governments can deliver faster, more efficient services without IT. Of course I'm happy to stand corrected if you could but just give me some cases where this has happened.
Ali Hussein
+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
"Kujikwaa si kuanguka, bali ni kwenda mbele" (To stumble is not to fall but a sign of going forward) - Swahili Proverb
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 9, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
What all systemic failures have in common is human beings.
Any system can be corrupted if the objective of those using it is corrupting the system…
Governments have existed with more services, higher revenue collection and lower corruption than Kenya for several years, without IT.
-- >>> Warm Regards, Phares Kariuki >>> >>>
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Ali Hussein wrote:
Listers
There has been a lot said about IFMIS and how it's supposed to have revolutionized Government accountability and spending. There are as many detractors as there are supporters.
What is the real story?
Can someone in Treasury/ICTA share with us how this Government ERP has fared since its inception?
See links below from the same media group that have different stories to tell about the success/failure of IFMIS
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/New-cashflow-audit-system-rolled-out-in-w...
http://mobile.nation.co.ke/business/Treasury-ministries-in-row-over-use-of-I...
It would be good to get a 'State of IFMIS' report from the Treasury.
Ali Hussein
+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
"Kujikwaa si kuanguka, bali ni kwenda mbele" (To stumble is not to fall but a sign of going forward) - Swahili Proverb
Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (4)
-
Ali Hussein -
Grace Githaiga -
Peter Wakaba -
Phares Kariuki