KICA Amendments: Control of anti-competitive practices by telecommunication operators
This is a continuation of the debate to amend the Kenya Information and Communications Act (KICA). Comments and thoughts are welcomed for yesterday's debate moderated by Mercy Mutemi on the regulation of social media and blogging. We can continue contributing through that thread. Today, we discuss the amendments to KCIA published on March 15th, 2019, recommended by Hon Elisha Odhiambo, MP, seeking to add a new section 25A on splitting telecommunications businesses, and section 34A on the compensation of telecommunications consumers on call drops, and section 84J prescribing how the Universal Service Fund (USF) should be used. *The new Section 25A requires telecommunications operators to* - Obtain a license for additional business. - Legally split the telecommunications business from additional business. - Provide separate accounts and reports in respect of all business carried out. - Require Communications Authority to report compliance annually to Parliament. The reasons given for this bill are to allow telecommunications companies to engage in other businesses, and also aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large industries in the sector. What are your thoughts on this amendment? Do we have any specific recommendations we can pass to Parliament through the public participation process? Warm Regard
Dear Kivuva, I am confused on this one though it makes sense to distill the components of converged networks. In a way, it will provide better premises for measuring the digital economy. I am ok with this clause. It needs further clarity and meat. Regards Regards On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 9:32 am Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a continuation of the debate to amend the Kenya Information and Communications Act (KICA).
Comments and thoughts are welcomed for yesterday's debate moderated by Mercy Mutemi on the regulation of social media and blogging. We can continue contributing through that thread.
Today, we discuss the amendments to KCIA published on March 15th, 2019, recommended by Hon Elisha Odhiambo, MP, seeking to add a new section 25A on splitting telecommunications businesses, and section 34A on the compensation of telecommunications consumers on call drops, and section 84J prescribing how the Universal Service Fund (USF) should be used.
*The new Section 25A requires telecommunications operators to* - Obtain a license for additional business. - Legally split the telecommunications business from additional business. - Provide separate accounts and reports in respect of all business carried out. - Require Communications Authority to report compliance annually to Parliament.
The reasons given for this bill are to allow telecommunications companies to engage in other businesses, and also aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large industries in the sector.
What are your thoughts on this amendment? Do we have any specific recommendations we can pass to Parliament through the public participation process?
Warm Regard _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Thanks Barrack. To your question, the main aim of this bill as indicated in the document is to "aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large telecommunication industries in the sector." Just for context, I saw the acting CEO of Safaricom in the news today challenging the dominance and competition issue. He said that Safaricom's other main non-telecommunication business, M-pesa, could never have been successful without being bundled with voice and data. He said that the first 5 years of M-pesa was never successful. It was subsidized by voice and data. He also said he does not see the point of separating M-pesa to punish Safaricom for investing heavily to make the business successful. On Thursday, 24 October 2019, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Kivuva,
I am confused on this one though it makes sense to distill the components of converged networks. In a way, it will provide better premises for measuring the digital economy. I am ok with this clause. It needs further clarity and meat.
Regards
Regards
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 9:32 am Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a continuation of the debate to amend the Kenya Information and Communications Act (KICA).
Comments and thoughts are welcomed for yesterday's debate moderated by Mercy Mutemi on the regulation of social media and blogging. We can continue contributing through that thread.
Today, we discuss the amendments to KCIA published on March 15th, 2019, recommended by Hon Elisha Odhiambo, MP, seeking to add a new section 25A on splitting telecommunications businesses, and section 34A on the compensation of telecommunications consumers on call drops, and section 84J prescribing how the Universal Service Fund (USF) should be used.
*The new Section 25A requires telecommunications operators to* - Obtain a license for additional business. - Legally split the telecommunications business from additional business. - Provide separate accounts and reports in respect of all business carried out. - Require Communications Authority to report compliance annually to Parliament.
The reasons given for this bill are to allow telecommunications companies to engage in other businesses, and also aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large industries in the sector.
What are your thoughts on this amendment? Do we have any specific recommendations we can pass to Parliament through the public participation process?
Warm Regard _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
I think as the business and the sector matures separation will be key. Convergence also makes it hard to measure the digital economy from a product or service perspective. Regards On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 11:51 pm Mwendwa Kivuva, <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
Thanks Barrack.
To your question, the main aim of this bill as indicated in the document is to "aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large telecommunication industries in the sector."
Just for context, I saw the acting CEO of Safaricom in the news today challenging the dominance and competition issue.
He said that Safaricom's other main non-telecommunication business, M-pesa, could never have been successful without being bundled with voice and data. He said that the first 5 years of M-pesa was never successful. It was subsidized by voice and data. He also said he does not see the point of separating M-pesa to punish Safaricom for investing heavily to make the business successful.
On Thursday, 24 October 2019, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Kivuva,
I am confused on this one though it makes sense to distill the components of converged networks. In a way, it will provide better premises for measuring the digital economy. I am ok with this clause. It needs further clarity and meat.
Regards
Regards
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 9:32 am Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a continuation of the debate to amend the Kenya Information and Communications Act (KICA).
Comments and thoughts are welcomed for yesterday's debate moderated by Mercy Mutemi on the regulation of social media and blogging. We can continue contributing through that thread.
Today, we discuss the amendments to KCIA published on March 15th, 2019, recommended by Hon Elisha Odhiambo, MP, seeking to add a new section 25A on splitting telecommunications businesses, and section 34A on the compensation of telecommunications consumers on call drops, and section 84J prescribing how the Universal Service Fund (USF) should be used.
*The new Section 25A requires telecommunications operators to* - Obtain a license for additional business. - Legally split the telecommunications business from additional business. - Provide separate accounts and reports in respect of all business carried out. - Require Communications Authority to report compliance annually to Parliament.
The reasons given for this bill are to allow telecommunications companies to engage in other businesses, and also aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large industries in the sector.
What are your thoughts on this amendment? Do we have any specific recommendations we can pass to Parliament through the public participation process?
Warm Regard _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@Barrack To quote your mosquito and hammer analogy. Most people don’t know that from a technological perspective Mpesa was actually inferior to the other players in the ecosystem. Airtel Money and now T-Kash. What Safaricom did and continue to do is simple:- They executed and continue to execute better than everyone else. Including the banks. Let me give you some examples. 1. There will be no Fintech to speak of today in Kenya without Mpesa. Fact. 2. Mobile Banking is almost 100% based on Mpesa. 3. The Banks that have the lion’s share of mobile lending (Not Tala, not Branch), but KCB and NCBA have that pivotal position because of their partnership with Safaricom. 4. Yet still more than 80% of transactions in this country is still in cash. Instead of everyone and his grandmother crying foul that Safaricom is dominant why not go for the 80% that still operate cash? We have a scarcity mentality, is what we have. Let me go back to the issue of breaking up Mpesa. I ask, is that really the best option? Us Africans have one serious problem. We think too small. In terms of our little countries and villages. My humble remedy to this ‘false’ dominance:- 1. Assist Safaricom to become globally dominant. The remittance market worldwide moves $600 billion every year. Peer to peer. The kind of business that Mpesa has excelled in. What is Mpesa’s global market share in remittances? Less than 1%! What really are we talking about?? 2. Put in place policies to ensure that Safaricom contributes a percentage into a Sovereign Fund to fund and activate a FinTech Ecosystem that is second to none in the world - Open Banking, APIs ecosystem, seed funding etc. instead of cutting off the goose that lays the golden eggs nurture her and let her produce more geese that lay golden eggs. 3. Mpesa is a defacto NeoBank (a bank that is a 100% digital and reaches customers using mobile and computer networks only and don’t require physical branches). Mpesa is forced to partner with banks because of outdated financial policies and regulations that need to be kicked in the butt and brought into the 22nd Century, kicking and screaming! 4. Create an Open Banking/Open Mobile environment where players are literally forced to share their networks via APIs so that players can compete on an even playing field. Let players charge for their rails if they must. Within reasonable parameters. In fact, Safaricom’s Daraja Platform already does this well. This, in my humble opinion, will be the best way to ‘tame’ dominance. Market Failures and breaking up companies is an excuse for lazy policy makers and regulators to correct a ‘mistake’ that customers want. Abuse of ‘dominance’ won’t have happened int the first place if policy makers and regulators didn’t suffer from a disease I call #StateCapture. A malaise that is brought about by not seeing the bigger picture. We don’t have a problem of dominance. We have a problem of laziness. Let’s cure that! Ali Hussein +254 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle Sent from my iPad
On 24 Oct 2019, at 11:55 PM, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I think as the business and the sector matures separation will be key. Convergence also makes it hard to measure the digital economy from a product or service perspective.
Regards
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 11:51 pm Mwendwa Kivuva, <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: Thanks Barrack.
To your question, the main aim of this bill as indicated in the document is to "aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large telecommunication industries in the sector."
Just for context, I saw the acting CEO of Safaricom in the news today challenging the dominance and competition issue.
He said that Safaricom's other main non-telecommunication business, M-pesa, could never have been successful without being bundled with voice and data. He said that the first 5 years of M-pesa was never successful. It was subsidized by voice and data. He also said he does not see the point of separating M-pesa to punish Safaricom for investing heavily to make the business successful.
On Thursday, 24 October 2019, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Kivuva,
I am confused on this one though it makes sense to distill the components of converged networks. In a way, it will provide better premises for measuring the digital economy. I am ok with this clause. It needs further clarity and meat.
Regards
Regards
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 9:32 am Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet, <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: This is a continuation of the debate to amend the Kenya Information and Communications Act (KICA).
Comments and thoughts are welcomed for yesterday's debate moderated by Mercy Mutemi on the regulation of social media and blogging. We can continue contributing through that thread.
Today, we discuss the amendments to KCIA published on March 15th, 2019, recommended by Hon Elisha Odhiambo, MP, seeking to add a new section 25A on splitting telecommunications businesses, and section 34A on the compensation of telecommunications consumers on call drops, and section 84J prescribing how the Universal Service Fund (USF) should be used.
The new Section 25A requires telecommunications operators to - Obtain a license for additional business. - Legally split the telecommunications business from additional business. - Provide separate accounts and reports in respect of all business carried out. - Require Communications Authority to report compliance annually to Parliament.
The reasons given for this bill are to allow telecommunications companies to engage in other businesses, and also aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large industries in the sector.
What are your thoughts on this amendment? Do we have any specific recommendations we can pass to Parliament through the public participation process?
Warm Regard _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Dear Ali, Many thanks for your insightfull responses. This is where we need expert guidance, what i know is that you don't start taxing a baby at birth, you nurture them until they start boasting of their own balance sheet then you strike. I think we are trying to solve the wrong problem with the wrong approach. I use mpesa to buy airtime for my Telkom line. Not sure if that is competition or coopetition. I bet what makes the later tick is responsibility, reliability and resilience. Basically what the Customer wants. The other players should first up their game and then talk about dominance. Secondly do we really have a digital market worth breaking up or are we walking in imagination. Do we even have a local definition of the digital economy? Every sector that is taxed needs budgetary facilitation and support from government. I bet that would be a good starting point. On Fri, 25 Oct 2019, 6:06 am Ali Hussein, <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
@Barrack
To quote your mosquito and hammer analogy.
Most people don’t know that from a technological perspective Mpesa was actually inferior to the other players in the ecosystem. Airtel Money and now T-Kash. What Safaricom did and continue to do is simple:-
They executed and continue to execute better than everyone else. Including the banks.
Let me give you some examples.
1. There will be no Fintech to speak of today in Kenya without Mpesa. Fact. 2. Mobile Banking is almost 100% based on Mpesa. 3. The Banks that have the lion’s share of mobile lending (Not Tala, not Branch), but KCB and NCBA have that pivotal position because of their partnership with Safaricom. 4. Yet still more than 80% of transactions in this country is still in cash. Instead of everyone and his grandmother crying foul that Safaricom is dominant why not go for the 80% that still operate cash? We have a scarcity mentality, is what we have.
Let me go back to the issue of breaking up Mpesa.
I ask, is that really the best option? Us Africans have one serious problem. We think too small. In terms of our little countries and villages. My humble remedy to this ‘false’ dominance:-
1. Assist Safaricom to become globally dominant. The remittance market worldwide moves $600 billion every year. Peer to peer. The kind of business that Mpesa has excelled in. What is Mpesa’s global market share in remittances? Less than 1%! What really are we talking about??
2. Put in place policies to ensure that Safaricom contributes a percentage into a Sovereign Fund to fund and activate a FinTech Ecosystem that is second to none in the world - Open Banking, APIs ecosystem, seed funding etc. instead of cutting off the goose that lays the golden eggs nurture her and let her produce more geese that lay golden eggs.
3. Mpesa is a defacto NeoBank (a bank that is a 100% digital and reaches customers using mobile and computer networks only and don’t require physical branches). Mpesa is forced to partner with banks because of outdated financial policies and regulations that need to be kicked in the butt and brought into the 22nd Century, kicking and screaming!
4. Create an Open Banking/Open Mobile environment where players are literally forced to share their networks via APIs so that players can compete on an even playing field. Let players charge for their rails if they must. Within reasonable parameters. In fact, Safaricom’s *Daraja Platform *already does this well.
This, in my humble opinion, will be the best way to ‘tame’ dominance. Market Failures and breaking up companies is an excuse for lazy policy makers and regulators to correct a ‘mistake’ that customers want. Abuse of ‘dominance’ won’t have happened int the first place if policy makers and regulators didn’t suffer from a disease I call #StateCapture. A malaise that is brought about by not seeing the bigger picture.
We don’t have a problem of dominance. We have a problem of laziness. Let’s cure that!
*Ali Hussein*
+254 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle
Sent from my iPad
On 24 Oct 2019, at 11:55 PM, Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I think as the business and the sector matures separation will be key. Convergence also makes it hard to measure the digital economy from a product or service perspective.
Regards
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 11:51 pm Mwendwa Kivuva, <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
Thanks Barrack.
To your question, the main aim of this bill as indicated in the document is to "aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large telecommunication industries in the sector."
Just for context, I saw the acting CEO of Safaricom in the news today challenging the dominance and competition issue.
He said that Safaricom's other main non-telecommunication business, M-pesa, could never have been successful without being bundled with voice and data. He said that the first 5 years of M-pesa was never successful. It was subsidized by voice and data. He also said he does not see the point of separating M-pesa to punish Safaricom for investing heavily to make the business successful.
On Thursday, 24 October 2019, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Kivuva,
I am confused on this one though it makes sense to distill the components of converged networks. In a way, it will provide better premises for measuring the digital economy. I am ok with this clause. It needs further clarity and meat.
Regards
Regards
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 9:32 am Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a continuation of the debate to amend the Kenya Information and Communications Act (KICA).
Comments and thoughts are welcomed for yesterday's debate moderated by Mercy Mutemi on the regulation of social media and blogging. We can continue contributing through that thread.
Today, we discuss the amendments to KCIA published on March 15th, 2019, recommended by Hon Elisha Odhiambo, MP, seeking to add a new section 25A on splitting telecommunications businesses, and section 34A on the compensation of telecommunications consumers on call drops, and section 84J prescribing how the Universal Service Fund (USF) should be used.
*The new Section 25A requires telecommunications operators to* - Obtain a license for additional business. - Legally split the telecommunications business from additional business. - Provide separate accounts and reports in respect of all business carried out. - Require Communications Authority to report compliance annually to Parliament.
The reasons given for this bill are to allow telecommunications companies to engage in other businesses, and also aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large industries in the sector.
What are your thoughts on this amendment? Do we have any specific recommendations we can pass to Parliament through the public participation process?
Warm Regard _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Exactly! Ali Hussein +254 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle Sent from my iPad
On 25 Oct 2019, at 6:22 AM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Ali,
Many thanks for your insightfull responses. This is where we need expert guidance, what i know is that you don't start taxing a baby at birth, you nurture them until they start boasting of their own balance sheet then you strike. I think we are trying to solve the wrong problem with the wrong approach. I use mpesa to buy airtime for my Telkom line. Not sure if that is competition or coopetition. I bet what makes the later tick is responsibility, reliability and resilience. Basically what the Customer wants. The other players should first up their game and then talk about dominance. Secondly do we really have a digital market worth breaking up or are we walking in imagination. Do we even have a local definition of the digital economy? Every sector that is taxed needs budgetary facilitation and support from government. I bet that would be a good starting point.
On Fri, 25 Oct 2019, 6:06 am Ali Hussein, <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: @Barrack
To quote your mosquito and hammer analogy.
Most people don’t know that from a technological perspective Mpesa was actually inferior to the other players in the ecosystem. Airtel Money and now T-Kash. What Safaricom did and continue to do is simple:-
They executed and continue to execute better than everyone else. Including the banks.
Let me give you some examples.
1. There will be no Fintech to speak of today in Kenya without Mpesa. Fact. 2. Mobile Banking is almost 100% based on Mpesa. 3. The Banks that have the lion’s share of mobile lending (Not Tala, not Branch), but KCB and NCBA have that pivotal position because of their partnership with Safaricom. 4. Yet still more than 80% of transactions in this country is still in cash. Instead of everyone and his grandmother crying foul that Safaricom is dominant why not go for the 80% that still operate cash? We have a scarcity mentality, is what we have.
Let me go back to the issue of breaking up Mpesa.
I ask, is that really the best option? Us Africans have one serious problem. We think too small. In terms of our little countries and villages. My humble remedy to this ‘false’ dominance:-
1. Assist Safaricom to become globally dominant. The remittance market worldwide moves $600 billion every year. Peer to peer. The kind of business that Mpesa has excelled in. What is Mpesa’s global market share in remittances? Less than 1%! What really are we talking about??
2. Put in place policies to ensure that Safaricom contributes a percentage into a Sovereign Fund to fund and activate a FinTech Ecosystem that is second to none in the world - Open Banking, APIs ecosystem, seed funding etc. instead of cutting off the goose that lays the golden eggs nurture her and let her produce more geese that lay golden eggs.
3. Mpesa is a defacto NeoBank (a bank that is a 100% digital and reaches customers using mobile and computer networks only and don’t require physical branches). Mpesa is forced to partner with banks because of outdated financial policies and regulations that need to be kicked in the butt and brought into the 22nd Century, kicking and screaming!
4. Create an Open Banking/Open Mobile environment where players are literally forced to share their networks via APIs so that players can compete on an even playing field. Let players charge for their rails if they must. Within reasonable parameters. In fact, Safaricom’s Daraja Platform already does this well.
This, in my humble opinion, will be the best way to ‘tame’ dominance. Market Failures and breaking up companies is an excuse for lazy policy makers and regulators to correct a ‘mistake’ that customers want. Abuse of ‘dominance’ won’t have happened int the first place if policy makers and regulators didn’t suffer from a disease I call #StateCapture. A malaise that is brought about by not seeing the bigger picture.
We don’t have a problem of dominance. We have a problem of laziness. Let’s cure that!
Ali Hussein
+254 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle
Sent from my iPad
On 24 Oct 2019, at 11:55 PM, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I think as the business and the sector matures separation will be key. Convergence also makes it hard to measure the digital economy from a product or service perspective.
Regards
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 11:51 pm Mwendwa Kivuva, <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: Thanks Barrack.
To your question, the main aim of this bill as indicated in the document is to "aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large telecommunication industries in the sector."
Just for context, I saw the acting CEO of Safaricom in the news today challenging the dominance and competition issue.
He said that Safaricom's other main non-telecommunication business, M-pesa, could never have been successful without being bundled with voice and data. He said that the first 5 years of M-pesa was never successful. It was subsidized by voice and data. He also said he does not see the point of separating M-pesa to punish Safaricom for investing heavily to make the business successful.
On Thursday, 24 October 2019, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Kivuva,
I am confused on this one though it makes sense to distill the components of converged networks. In a way, it will provide better premises for measuring the digital economy. I am ok with this clause. It needs further clarity and meat.
Regards
Regards
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 9:32 am Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet, <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: This is a continuation of the debate to amend the Kenya Information and Communications Act (KICA).
Comments and thoughts are welcomed for yesterday's debate moderated by Mercy Mutemi on the regulation of social media and blogging. We can continue contributing through that thread.
Today, we discuss the amendments to KCIA published on March 15th, 2019, recommended by Hon Elisha Odhiambo, MP, seeking to add a new section 25A on splitting telecommunications businesses, and section 34A on the compensation of telecommunications consumers on call drops, and section 84J prescribing how the Universal Service Fund (USF) should be used.
The new Section 25A requires telecommunications operators to - Obtain a license for additional business. - Legally split the telecommunications business from additional business. - Provide separate accounts and reports in respect of all business carried out. - Require Communications Authority to report compliance annually to Parliament.
The reasons given for this bill are to allow telecommunications companies to engage in other businesses, and also aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large industries in the sector.
What are your thoughts on this amendment? Do we have any specific recommendations we can pass to Parliament through the public participation process?
Warm Regard _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
It is impossible to split telecommunications businesses in the digital economy. If a telco sells connectivity to a farm or a farmer, is it an agricultural company? Sells to a bank, is it a finance company? Maybe not. Then what if it adds some services to that connectivity… what service counts as additional businesses? And what if it is a partner’s service? Telcos’ have the unique capability to reach every single person in this country, they should be encouraged to do that rather than hindered. Right now e-health, e-agri etc are still really under-developed in this country. They need more support and stronger players to push in that space… leaving it to start-ups on their own will not succeed. Besides, what if the telco just creates a separate company 100% owned (and controlled and managed) by itself, then what is the point of that – it is just a department of the telco. Surely if there is already a framework in place for licenses in any industry, and if a telco gets into that business it would need to apply for that license anyway; for example if the telco started selling medicines online, then it (or its partner) would need the relevant license, and I don’t think anyone would argue with that. From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+adam.lane=huawei.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein via kictanet Sent: Friday, October 25, 2019 6:29 AM To: Adam Lane <adam.lane@huawei.com> Cc: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] KICA Amendments: Control of anti-competitive practices by telecommunication operators Exactly! Ali Hussein +254 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle Sent from my iPad On 25 Oct 2019, at 6:22 AM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com>> wrote: Dear Ali, Many thanks for your insightfull responses. This is where we need expert guidance, what i know is that you don't start taxing a baby at birth, you nurture them until they start boasting of their own balance sheet then you strike. I think we are trying to solve the wrong problem with the wrong approach. I use mpesa to buy airtime for my Telkom line. Not sure if that is competition or coopetition. I bet what makes the later tick is responsibility, reliability and resilience. Basically what the Customer wants. The other players should first up their game and then talk about dominance. Secondly do we really have a digital market worth breaking up or are we walking in imagination. Do we even have a local definition of the digital economy? Every sector that is taxed needs budgetary facilitation and support from government. I bet that would be a good starting point. On Fri, 25 Oct 2019, 6:06 am Ali Hussein, <ali@hussein.me.ke<mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke>> wrote: @Barrack To quote your mosquito and hammer analogy. Most people don’t know that from a technological perspective Mpesa was actually inferior to the other players in the ecosystem. Airtel Money and now T-Kash. What Safaricom did and continue to do is simple:- They executed and continue to execute better than everyone else. Including the banks. Let me give you some examples. 1. There will be no Fintech to speak of today in Kenya without Mpesa. Fact. 2. Mobile Banking is almost 100% based on Mpesa. 3. The Banks that have the lion’s share of mobile lending (Not Tala, not Branch), but KCB and NCBA have that pivotal position because of their partnership with Safaricom. 4. Yet still more than 80% of transactions in this country is still in cash. Instead of everyone and his grandmother crying foul that Safaricom is dominant why not go for the 80% that still operate cash? We have a scarcity mentality, is what we have. Let me go back to the issue of breaking up Mpesa. I ask, is that really the best option? Us Africans have one serious problem. We think too small. In terms of our little countries and villages. My humble remedy to this ‘false’ dominance:- 1. Assist Safaricom to become globally dominant. The remittance market worldwide moves $600 billion every year. Peer to peer. The kind of business that Mpesa has excelled in. What is Mpesa’s global market share in remittances? Less than 1%! What really are we talking about?? 2. Put in place policies to ensure that Safaricom contributes a percentage into a Sovereign Fund to fund and activate a FinTech Ecosystem that is second to none in the world - Open Banking, APIs ecosystem, seed funding etc. instead of cutting off the goose that lays the golden eggs nurture her and let her produce more geese that lay golden eggs. 3. Mpesa is a defacto NeoBank (a bank that is a 100% digital and reaches customers using mobile and computer networks only and don’t require physical branches). Mpesa is forced to partner with banks because of outdated financial policies and regulations that need to be kicked in the butt and brought into the 22nd Century, kicking and screaming! 4. Create an Open Banking/Open Mobile environment where players are literally forced to share their networks via APIs so that players can compete on an even playing field. Let players charge for their rails if they must. Within reasonable parameters. In fact, Safaricom’s Daraja Platform already does this well. This, in my humble opinion, will be the best way to ‘tame’ dominance. Market Failures and breaking up companies is an excuse for lazy policy makers and regulators to correct a ‘mistake’ that customers want. Abuse of ‘dominance’ won’t have happened int the first place if policy makers and regulators didn’t suffer from a disease I call #StateCapture. A malaise that is brought about by not seeing the bigger picture. We don’t have a problem of dominance. We have a problem of laziness. Let’s cure that! Ali Hussein +254 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle Sent from my iPad On 24 Oct 2019, at 11:55 PM, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: I think as the business and the sector matures separation will be key. Convergence also makes it hard to measure the digital economy from a product or service perspective. Regards On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 11:51 pm Mwendwa Kivuva, <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com<mailto:Kivuva@transworldafrica.com>> wrote: Thanks Barrack. To your question, the main aim of this bill as indicated in the document is to "aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large telecommunication industries in the sector." Just for context, I saw the acting CEO of Safaricom in the news today challenging the dominance and competition issue. He said that Safaricom's other main non-telecommunication business, M-pesa, could never have been successful without being bundled with voice and data. He said that the first 5 years of M-pesa was never successful. It was subsidized by voice and data. He also said he does not see the point of separating M-pesa to punish Safaricom for investing heavily to make the business successful. On Thursday, 24 October 2019, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com>> wrote: Dear Kivuva, I am confused on this one though it makes sense to distill the components of converged networks. In a way, it will provide better premises for measuring the digital economy. I am ok with this clause. It needs further clarity and meat. Regards Regards On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 9:32 am Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet, <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: This is a continuation of the debate to amend the Kenya Information and Communications Act (KICA). Comments and thoughts are welcomed for yesterday's debate moderated by Mercy Mutemi on the regulation of social media and blogging. We can continue contributing through that thread. Today, we discuss the amendments to KCIA published on March 15th, 2019, recommended by Hon Elisha Odhiambo, MP, seeking to add a new section 25A on splitting telecommunications businesses, and section 34A on the compensation of telecommunications consumers on call drops, and section 84J prescribing how the Universal Service Fund (USF) should be used. The new Section 25A requires telecommunications operators to - Obtain a license for additional business. - Legally split the telecommunications business from additional business. - Provide separate accounts and reports in respect of all business carried out. - Require Communications Authority to report compliance annually to Parliament. The reasons given for this bill are to allow telecommunications companies to engage in other businesses, and also aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large industries in the sector. What are your thoughts on this amendment? Do we have any specific recommendations we can pass to Parliament through the public participation process? Warm Regard _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Reminds me of Nairobi County Government. They stopped issuing unified licenses since they felt they were losing potential income from multiple streams. I suspect this is the thinking around separation of products and services offered by Telcos. Best Regards On Fri, 25 Oct 2019, 11:14 am Adam Lane via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
It is impossible to split telecommunications businesses in the digital economy. If a telco sells connectivity to a farm or a farmer, is it an agricultural company? Sells to a bank, is it a finance company? Maybe not. Then what if it adds some services to that connectivity… what service counts as additional businesses? And what if it is a partner’s service? Telcos’ have the unique capability to reach every single person in this country, they should be encouraged to do that rather than hindered. Right now e-health, e-agri etc are still really under-developed in this country. They need more support and stronger players to push in that space… leaving it to start-ups on their own will not succeed.
Besides, what if the telco just creates a separate company 100% owned (and controlled and managed) by itself, then what is the point of that – it is just a department of the telco.
Surely if there is already a framework in place for licenses in any industry, and if a telco gets into that business it would need to apply for that license anyway; for example if the telco started selling medicines online, then it (or its partner) would need the relevant license, and I don’t think anyone would argue with that.
*From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+adam.lane= huawei.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Ali Hussein via kictanet *Sent:* Friday, October 25, 2019 6:29 AM *To:* Adam Lane <adam.lane@huawei.com> *Cc:* Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] KICA Amendments: Control of anti-competitive practices by telecommunication operators
Exactly!
*Ali Hussein*
+254 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle
Sent from my iPad
On 25 Oct 2019, at 6:22 AM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Ali,
Many thanks for your insightfull responses. This is where we need expert guidance, what i know is that you don't start taxing a baby at birth, you nurture them until they start boasting of their own balance sheet then you strike. I think we are trying to solve the wrong problem with the wrong approach. I use mpesa to buy airtime for my Telkom line. Not sure if that is competition or coopetition. I bet what makes the later tick is responsibility, reliability and resilience. Basically what the Customer wants. The other players should first up their game and then talk about dominance. Secondly do we really have a digital market worth breaking up or are we walking in imagination. Do we even have a local definition of the digital economy? Every sector that is taxed needs budgetary facilitation and support from government. I bet that would be a good starting point.
On Fri, 25 Oct 2019, 6:06 am Ali Hussein, <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
@Barrack
To quote your mosquito and hammer analogy.
Most people don’t know that from a technological perspective Mpesa was actually inferior to the other players in the ecosystem. Airtel Money and now T-Kash. What Safaricom did and continue to do is simple:-
They executed and continue to execute better than everyone else. Including the banks.
Let me give you some examples.
1. There will be no Fintech to speak of today in Kenya without Mpesa. Fact.
2. Mobile Banking is almost 100% based on Mpesa.
3. The Banks that have the lion’s share of mobile lending (Not Tala, not Branch), but KCB and NCBA have that pivotal position because of their partnership with Safaricom.
4. Yet still more than 80% of transactions in this country is still in cash. Instead of everyone and his grandmother crying foul that Safaricom is dominant why not go for the 80% that still operate cash? We have a scarcity mentality, is what we have.
Let me go back to the issue of breaking up Mpesa.
I ask, is that really the best option? Us Africans have one serious problem. We think too small. In terms of our little countries and villages. My humble remedy to this ‘false’ dominance:-
1. Assist Safaricom to become globally dominant. The remittance market worldwide moves $600 billion every year. Peer to peer. The kind of business that Mpesa has excelled in. What is Mpesa’s global market share in remittances? Less than 1%! What really are we talking about??
2. Put in place policies to ensure that Safaricom contributes a percentage into a Sovereign Fund to fund and activate a FinTech Ecosystem that is second to none in the world - Open Banking, APIs ecosystem, seed funding etc. instead of cutting off the goose that lays the golden eggs nurture her and let her produce more geese that lay golden eggs.
3. Mpesa is a defacto NeoBank (a bank that is a 100% digital and reaches customers using mobile and computer networks only and don’t require physical branches). Mpesa is forced to partner with banks because of outdated financial policies and regulations that need to be kicked in the butt and brought into the 22nd Century, kicking and screaming!
4. Create an Open Banking/Open Mobile environment where players are literally forced to share their networks via APIs so that players can compete on an even playing field. Let players charge for their rails if they must. Within reasonable parameters. In fact, Safaricom’s *Daraja Platform *already does this well.
This, in my humble opinion, will be the best way to ‘tame’ dominance. Market Failures and breaking up companies is an excuse for lazy policy makers and regulators to correct a ‘mistake’ that customers want. Abuse of ‘dominance’ won’t have happened int the first place if policy makers and regulators didn’t suffer from a disease I call #StateCapture. A malaise that is brought about by not seeing the bigger picture.
We don’t have a problem of dominance. We have a problem of laziness. Let’s cure that!
*Ali Hussein*
+254 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle
Sent from my iPad
On 24 Oct 2019, at 11:55 PM, Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I think as the business and the sector matures separation will be key. Convergence also makes it hard to measure the digital economy from a product or service perspective.
Regards
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 11:51 pm Mwendwa Kivuva, <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
Thanks Barrack.
To your question, the main aim of this bill as indicated in the document is to "aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large telecommunication industries in the sector."
Just for context, I saw the acting CEO of Safaricom in the news today challenging the dominance and competition issue.
He said that Safaricom's other main non-telecommunication business, M-pesa, could never have been successful without being bundled with voice and data. He said that the first 5 years of M-pesa was never successful. It was subsidized by voice and data. He also said he does not see the point of separating M-pesa to punish Safaricom for investing heavily to make the business successful.
On Thursday, 24 October 2019, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Kivuva,
I am confused on this one though it makes sense to distill the components of converged networks. In a way, it will provide better premises for measuring the digital economy. I am ok with this clause. It needs further clarity and meat.
Regards
Regards
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 9:32 am Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a continuation of the debate to amend the Kenya Information and Communications Act (KICA).
Comments and thoughts are welcomed for yesterday's debate moderated by Mercy Mutemi on the regulation of social media and blogging. We can continue contributing through that thread.
Today, we discuss the amendments to KCIA published on March 15th, 2019, recommended by Hon Elisha Odhiambo, MP, seeking to add a new section 25A on splitting telecommunications businesses, and section 34A on the compensation of telecommunications consumers on call drops, and section 84J prescribing how the Universal Service Fund (USF) should be used.
*The new Section 25A requires telecommunications operators to*
- Obtain a license for additional business.
- Legally split the telecommunications business from additional business.
- Provide separate accounts and reports in respect of all business carried out.
- Require Communications Authority to report compliance annually to Parliament.
The reasons given for this bill are to allow telecommunications companies to engage in other businesses, and also aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large industries in the sector.
What are your thoughts on this amendment? Do we have any specific recommendations we can pass to Parliament through the public participation process?
Warm Regard
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
It wouldn't be enough to separate the business. Anti-competitive practices have to be checked even across different business entities. Eg- I don't see how the amendment would heal the tying problem (You can only get product X when you are subscribed to product Y). Tying is both a consumer protection and anti-competitive issue which in my opinion deserves a lot more attention than it is currently getting. Very recently- I have seen notices from businesses that they no longer accept cash Payments. They then list a finite number of payment options which are not representative of all the options available in the market. This trend is quickly growing too. Such business choices shape the market instead of letting the market shape itself. On Fri, 25 Oct 2019 at 11:41, Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Reminds me of Nairobi County Government. They stopped issuing unified licenses since they felt they were losing potential income from multiple streams. I suspect this is the thinking around separation of products and services offered by Telcos.
Best Regards
On Fri, 25 Oct 2019, 11:14 am Adam Lane via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
It is impossible to split telecommunications businesses in the digital economy. If a telco sells connectivity to a farm or a farmer, is it an agricultural company? Sells to a bank, is it a finance company? Maybe not. Then what if it adds some services to that connectivity… what service counts as additional businesses? And what if it is a partner’s service? Telcos’ have the unique capability to reach every single person in this country, they should be encouraged to do that rather than hindered. Right now e-health, e-agri etc are still really under-developed in this country. They need more support and stronger players to push in that space… leaving it to start-ups on their own will not succeed.
Besides, what if the telco just creates a separate company 100% owned (and controlled and managed) by itself, then what is the point of that – it is just a department of the telco.
Surely if there is already a framework in place for licenses in any industry, and if a telco gets into that business it would need to apply for that license anyway; for example if the telco started selling medicines online, then it (or its partner) would need the relevant license, and I don’t think anyone would argue with that.
*From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+adam.lane= huawei.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Ali Hussein via kictanet *Sent:* Friday, October 25, 2019 6:29 AM *To:* Adam Lane <adam.lane@huawei.com> *Cc:* Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] KICA Amendments: Control of anti-competitive practices by telecommunication operators
Exactly!
*Ali Hussein*
+254 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle
Sent from my iPad
On 25 Oct 2019, at 6:22 AM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Ali,
Many thanks for your insightfull responses. This is where we need expert guidance, what i know is that you don't start taxing a baby at birth, you nurture them until they start boasting of their own balance sheet then you strike. I think we are trying to solve the wrong problem with the wrong approach. I use mpesa to buy airtime for my Telkom line. Not sure if that is competition or coopetition. I bet what makes the later tick is responsibility, reliability and resilience. Basically what the Customer wants. The other players should first up their game and then talk about dominance. Secondly do we really have a digital market worth breaking up or are we walking in imagination. Do we even have a local definition of the digital economy? Every sector that is taxed needs budgetary facilitation and support from government. I bet that would be a good starting point.
On Fri, 25 Oct 2019, 6:06 am Ali Hussein, <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
@Barrack
To quote your mosquito and hammer analogy.
Most people don’t know that from a technological perspective Mpesa was actually inferior to the other players in the ecosystem. Airtel Money and now T-Kash. What Safaricom did and continue to do is simple:-
They executed and continue to execute better than everyone else. Including the banks.
Let me give you some examples.
1. There will be no Fintech to speak of today in Kenya without Mpesa. Fact.
2. Mobile Banking is almost 100% based on Mpesa.
3. The Banks that have the lion’s share of mobile lending (Not Tala, not Branch), but KCB and NCBA have that pivotal position because of their partnership with Safaricom.
4. Yet still more than 80% of transactions in this country is still in cash. Instead of everyone and his grandmother crying foul that Safaricom is dominant why not go for the 80% that still operate cash? We have a scarcity mentality, is what we have.
Let me go back to the issue of breaking up Mpesa.
I ask, is that really the best option? Us Africans have one serious problem. We think too small. In terms of our little countries and villages. My humble remedy to this ‘false’ dominance:-
1. Assist Safaricom to become globally dominant. The remittance market worldwide moves $600 billion every year. Peer to peer. The kind of business that Mpesa has excelled in. What is Mpesa’s global market share in remittances? Less than 1%! What really are we talking about??
2. Put in place policies to ensure that Safaricom contributes a percentage into a Sovereign Fund to fund and activate a FinTech Ecosystem that is second to none in the world - Open Banking, APIs ecosystem, seed funding etc. instead of cutting off the goose that lays the golden eggs nurture her and let her produce more geese that lay golden eggs.
3. Mpesa is a defacto NeoBank (a bank that is a 100% digital and reaches customers using mobile and computer networks only and don’t require physical branches). Mpesa is forced to partner with banks because of outdated financial policies and regulations that need to be kicked in the butt and brought into the 22nd Century, kicking and screaming!
4. Create an Open Banking/Open Mobile environment where players are literally forced to share their networks via APIs so that players can compete on an even playing field. Let players charge for their rails if they must. Within reasonable parameters. In fact, Safaricom’s *Daraja Platform *already does this well.
This, in my humble opinion, will be the best way to ‘tame’ dominance. Market Failures and breaking up companies is an excuse for lazy policy makers and regulators to correct a ‘mistake’ that customers want. Abuse of ‘dominance’ won’t have happened int the first place if policy makers and regulators didn’t suffer from a disease I call #StateCapture. A malaise that is brought about by not seeing the bigger picture.
We don’t have a problem of dominance. We have a problem of laziness. Let’s cure that!
*Ali Hussein*
+254 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle
Sent from my iPad
On 24 Oct 2019, at 11:55 PM, Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I think as the business and the sector matures separation will be key. Convergence also makes it hard to measure the digital economy from a product or service perspective.
Regards
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 11:51 pm Mwendwa Kivuva, < Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
Thanks Barrack.
To your question, the main aim of this bill as indicated in the document is to "aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large telecommunication industries in the sector."
Just for context, I saw the acting CEO of Safaricom in the news today challenging the dominance and competition issue.
He said that Safaricom's other main non-telecommunication business, M-pesa, could never have been successful without being bundled with voice and data. He said that the first 5 years of M-pesa was never successful. It was subsidized by voice and data. He also said he does not see the point of separating M-pesa to punish Safaricom for investing heavily to make the business successful.
On Thursday, 24 October 2019, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Kivuva,
I am confused on this one though it makes sense to distill the components of converged networks. In a way, it will provide better premises for measuring the digital economy. I am ok with this clause. It needs further clarity and meat.
Regards
Regards
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 9:32 am Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a continuation of the debate to amend the Kenya Information and Communications Act (KICA).
Comments and thoughts are welcomed for yesterday's debate moderated by Mercy Mutemi on the regulation of social media and blogging. We can continue contributing through that thread.
Today, we discuss the amendments to KCIA published on March 15th, 2019, recommended by Hon Elisha Odhiambo, MP, seeking to add a new section 25A on splitting telecommunications businesses, and section 34A on the compensation of telecommunications consumers on call drops, and section 84J prescribing how the Universal Service Fund (USF) should be used.
*The new Section 25A requires telecommunications operators to*
- Obtain a license for additional business.
- Legally split the telecommunications business from additional business.
- Provide separate accounts and reports in respect of all business carried out.
- Require Communications Authority to report compliance annually to Parliament.
The reasons given for this bill are to allow telecommunications companies to engage in other businesses, and also aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large industries in the sector.
What are your thoughts on this amendment? Do we have any specific recommendations we can pass to Parliament through the public participation process?
Warm Regard
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Mercy Mutemi, Advocate*.
Thank you, Ali, for those insightful remarks. I see why you are considered the godfather of Fintech in the region. Nobody can argue with numbers. Your message is loud and clear, instead of splitting Safaricom, facilitate it through better policies for it to go conquer the world. Fight there with the giants. I was looking at the world's largest telecommunications companies measured by total revenues <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_telephone_operating_companies#>, and Safaricom came at number 62 with $2.3B behind the market leader AT&T with $170.8B. The only other African company to make the cut was MTN Group of South Africa at 34 with $10.2B, dwarfing Safaricom 5 times over. AT&T, on the other hand, is Safaricom 74 times. In the Fintech space, Ant Finance the market leader is estimated to be worth $75B. Let us marinate over that. @Barrack. You are spot on. I like your idea of having a localized definition of a digital economy and enabling environment from the government for our industries. What would be your initial definition of Kenya's digital economy? @Muraya, good genesis on where the other operators lost the game, through poor corporate governance. Are you suggesting that Safaricom should be split, or change business model, or spin-off to be a market leader in financial services, while Telkom is funded (by?) to be a dominant telecommunications company? @Adam great analogy on the different use-cases a telecommunications company can have. I can imagine this will only grow with 5G and the Internet of Things (IoT). I take this with me " Telcos’ have the unique capability to reach every single person in this country, they should be encouraged to do that rather than hindered. Right now e-health, e-agri etc are still really under-developed in this country. They need more support". Point taken also on what is the point of splitting it, then it becomes an affiliate of the same company? Probably for different tax streams as @Barrack has hinted. So that Safaricom will also need a Banking License. @ Kanini Mutemi, not only are the products tied together within Safaricom but between Safaricom and other outside entities. I have a 4G Jamii Faiba line, and the only supported payment option is Safaricom Mpesa Paybill. I can imagine why businesses want to dictate payment options. For example, to reduce fraud from cash handling, and also for security reasons where bulk cash handlers are targeted by criminals. It is true this is changing our consumption patterns. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva,
Mwendwa, As stated before, I fully agree with Ali. No need to tamper with Safaricom. How well does their 4G network work in close proximity to their various office premises? They are not doing as well on providing affordable, effective data services as they are too focused on financial services. On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 12:57 PM Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Thank you, Ali, for those insightful remarks. I see why you are considered the godfather of Fintech in the region. Nobody can argue with numbers. Your message is loud and clear, instead of splitting Safaricom, facilitate it through better policies for it to go conquer the world. Fight there with the giants. I was looking at the world's largest telecommunications companies measured by total revenues <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_telephone_operating_companies#>, and Safaricom came at number 62 with $2.3B behind the market leader AT&T with $170.8B. The only other African company to make the cut was MTN Group of South Africa at 34 with $10.2B, dwarfing Safaricom 5 times over. AT&T, on the other hand, is Safaricom 74 times. In the Fintech space, Ant Finance the market leader is estimated to be worth $75B. Let us marinate over that.
@Barrack. You are spot on. I like your idea of having a localized definition of a digital economy and enabling environment from the government for our industries. What would be your initial definition of Kenya's digital economy?
@Muraya, good genesis on where the other operators lost the game, through poor corporate governance. Are you suggesting that Safaricom should be split, or change business model, or spin-off to be a market leader in financial services, while Telkom is funded (by?) to be a dominant telecommunications company?
@Adam great analogy on the different use-cases a telecommunications company can have. I can imagine this will only grow with 5G and the Internet of Things (IoT). I take this with me " Telcos’ have the unique capability to reach every single person in this country, they should be encouraged to do that rather than hindered. Right now e-health, e-agri etc are still really under-developed in this country. They need more support". Point taken also on what is the point of splitting it, then it becomes an affiliate of the same company? Probably for different tax streams as @Barrack has hinted. So that Safaricom will also need a Banking License.
@ Kanini Mutemi, not only are the products tied together within Safaricom but between Safaricom and other outside entities. I have a 4G Jamii Faiba line, and the only supported payment option is Safaricom Mpesa Paybill. I can imagine why businesses want to dictate payment options. For example, to reduce fraud from cash handling, and also for security reasons where bulk cash handlers are targeted by criminals. It is true this is changing our consumption patterns. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/murigi.muraya%40gmail....
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- SMM *"Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one who takes a city." Prov 16:32*
Could not agree more with Ali. Last night on Citizen TV, the outgoing acting CEO, MJ noted Safaricom just invested more than its competitors. We should also not discount the fact, that the same corruption which keeps Kenya down, has something to do with so-called market failure. It is no secret, that KPTC operatives became very wealthy, while assets were lost and it (KPTC) ran out of operating funds. https://www.nation.co.ke/business/996-391268-obfby5z/index.html https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000153431/how-kencell-now-airtel-ha... If we could control ourselves from stealing, the State could/should help Telkom Kenya progress to 5G over the next 10 years. https://www.lifewire.com/5g-cell-towers-4584192 As Safaricom grows in Financial services, Telkom should be favoured (funded) to provide even more affordable data services. Appointing authorities should include in the Tekom Kenya board people known (proven) to fight money laundering. https://www.the-star.co.ke/business/kenya/2019-10-22-cbk-governor-patrick-nj... On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 8:10 AM Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Barrack
To quote your mosquito and hammer analogy.
Most people don’t know that from a technological perspective Mpesa was actually inferior to the other players in the ecosystem. Airtel Money and now T-Kash. What Safaricom did and continue to do is simple:-
They executed and continue to execute better than everyone else. Including the banks.
Let me give you some examples.
1. There will be no Fintech to speak of today in Kenya without Mpesa. Fact. 2. Mobile Banking is almost 100% based on Mpesa. 3. The Banks that have the lion’s share of mobile lending (Not Tala, not Branch), but KCB and NCBA have that pivotal position because of their partnership with Safaricom. 4. Yet still more than 80% of transactions in this country is still in cash. Instead of everyone and his grandmother crying foul that Safaricom is dominant why not go for the 80% that still operate cash? We have a scarcity mentality, is what we have.
Let me go back to the issue of breaking up Mpesa.
I ask, is that really the best option? Us Africans have one serious problem. We think too small. In terms of our little countries and villages. My humble remedy to this ‘false’ dominance:-
1. Assist Safaricom to become globally dominant. The remittance market worldwide moves $600 billion every year. Peer to peer. The kind of business that Mpesa has excelled in. What is Mpesa’s global market share in remittances? Less than 1%! What really are we talking about??
2. Put in place policies to ensure that Safaricom contributes a percentage into a Sovereign Fund to fund and activate a FinTech Ecosystem that is second to none in the world - Open Banking, APIs ecosystem, seed funding etc. instead of cutting off the goose that lays the golden eggs nurture her and let her produce more geese that lay golden eggs.
3. Mpesa is a defacto NeoBank (a bank that is a 100% digital and reaches customers using mobile and computer networks only and don’t require physical branches). Mpesa is forced to partner with banks because of outdated financial policies and regulations that need to be kicked in the butt and brought into the 22nd Century, kicking and screaming!
4. Create an Open Banking/Open Mobile environment where players are literally forced to share their networks via APIs so that players can compete on an even playing field. Let players charge for their rails if they must. Within reasonable parameters. In fact, Safaricom’s *Daraja Platform *already does this well.
This, in my humble opinion, will be the best way to ‘tame’ dominance. Market Failures and breaking up companies is an excuse for lazy policy makers and regulators to correct a ‘mistake’ that customers want. Abuse of ‘dominance’ won’t have happened int the first place if policy makers and regulators didn’t suffer from a disease I call #StateCapture. A malaise that is brought about by not seeing the bigger picture.
We don’t have a problem of dominance. We have a problem of laziness. Let’s cure that!
*Ali Hussein*
+254 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle
Sent from my iPad
On 24 Oct 2019, at 11:55 PM, Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I think as the business and the sector matures separation will be key. Convergence also makes it hard to measure the digital economy from a product or service perspective.
Regards
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 11:51 pm Mwendwa Kivuva, <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
Thanks Barrack.
To your question, the main aim of this bill as indicated in the document is to "aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large telecommunication industries in the sector."
Just for context, I saw the acting CEO of Safaricom in the news today challenging the dominance and competition issue.
He said that Safaricom's other main non-telecommunication business, M-pesa, could never have been successful without being bundled with voice and data. He said that the first 5 years of M-pesa was never successful. It was subsidized by voice and data. He also said he does not see the point of separating M-pesa to punish Safaricom for investing heavily to make the business successful.
On Thursday, 24 October 2019, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Kivuva,
I am confused on this one though it makes sense to distill the components of converged networks. In a way, it will provide better premises for measuring the digital economy. I am ok with this clause. It needs further clarity and meat.
Regards
Regards
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 9:32 am Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a continuation of the debate to amend the Kenya Information and Communications Act (KICA).
Comments and thoughts are welcomed for yesterday's debate moderated by Mercy Mutemi on the regulation of social media and blogging. We can continue contributing through that thread.
Today, we discuss the amendments to KCIA published on March 15th, 2019, recommended by Hon Elisha Odhiambo, MP, seeking to add a new section 25A on splitting telecommunications businesses, and section 34A on the compensation of telecommunications consumers on call drops, and section 84J prescribing how the Universal Service Fund (USF) should be used.
*The new Section 25A requires telecommunications operators to* - Obtain a license for additional business. - Legally split the telecommunications business from additional business. - Provide separate accounts and reports in respect of all business carried out. - Require Communications Authority to report compliance annually to Parliament.
The reasons given for this bill are to allow telecommunications companies to engage in other businesses, and also aid in the control of anti-competitive practices by large industries in the sector.
What are your thoughts on this amendment? Do we have any specific recommendations we can pass to Parliament through the public participation process?
Warm Regard _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/murigi.muraya%40gmail....
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- SMM *"Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one who takes a city." Prov 16:32*
participants (6)
-
Adam Lane -
Ali Hussein -
Barrack Otieno -
kanini mutemi -
Mwendwa Kivuva -
S.M. Muraya