Re: [kictanet] Facebook, Twitter and Instagram Share Data with Location-based Social Media Surveillance Startup
Very interesting convo & engagement. Good spirit and thoughtful responses Ebele, keep em coming đź‘Ť My question for FB - how does FB usually ensure that these type of folks use the "publicly available" info they gather for the specific use assigned? Maybe you've answered this on the thread and I missed it. Does the developer store the info they gather or no? Is it just "accessed" on FB for a set time? If they do store it, or even just are able to store it - what happens in countries with no data protection laws on gathering/use/storage of data? Thanks, Steph. On 14 Oct 2016 19:27, "Anderson Levi via kictanet" < [email protected]> wrote: Ngigi, has hit the nail on the head. Everything else is "white noise". If access to the API equals access to 'public' info then why all this... On 14 Oct 2016 18:35, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < [email protected]> wrote:
This is not a legal issue. It's against the rules of Facebook's developer agreement for someone to pose as a commercial developer and then sell information it gathered based upon APIs targeting publicly available information to police. None of this is illegal-it's just really creepy and against our terms.
In answer to your last question, absolutely not.
Ebele Okobi | Public Policy Director, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Oct 14, 2016, at 3:16 PM, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet < [email protected]> wrote:
Ebele,
There is something about this that I am not understanding.
If the APIs only allows a developer to access *publicly* available information that is in the FB Platform, why would it be illegal for law enforcement / intelligence to even access it?
It can *only* be a problem if the API allows accessing *private *information from FB users.
Which then brings us to an even *bigger problem*; is FB allowing developers to access our private information and messaging on FB for commercial purposes?
Regards Sent from Nylas N1 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nylas.com_n1-3Fref-3Dn1&d=DQMGAA&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=ugY2LOWQPr3HVkgrJeaJsIdXO902T0vxQWS5mgsAFco&s=X_3RZcS17RcxE51g4k0hDYC6jHOANKOuvAWvYalu5ak&e=>, the extensible, open source mail client.
On Oct 12 2016, at 8:58 pm, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < [email protected]> wrote:
Yes-this is a mess, and this article isn't an accurate report. Basically-this was a private company that set itself up as a developer-same as, say, Candy Crush makers or those quiz things about your friends on FB. As a developer, it got access to API (see here http://readwrite.com/2013/09/19/api-defined/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__readwrite.com_2013_09_19_api-2Ddefined_&d=DQMGAA&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=ugY2LOWQPr3HVkgrJeaJsIdXO902T0vxQWS5mgsAFco&s=Mudkp_42mpAW4RqNFznaslWco7xHQOGfnxmHTYDfgbA&e=> for definition) that allowed it to build programs into FB. This allowed it to write programs targeting publicly available information on FB platform. That means-no private chats, no private groups, no data that users haven't made publicly available. The point of APIs in this context is SUPPOSED to be so advertisers (from small business to nonprofits to Andela, etc.) can send ads to targeted users. This group completely violated our policies and used their API access to target publicly available info to send to police. FB has kicked them off our platform. As you can imagine, there are many conversations now about this. But key to know that FB did NOT and does not sell user data; that this was a completely unauthorized use of our developer platform, that we rectified this as soon as we were notified, that the access was not to user data, but essentially a program that allowed them to target public info on Facebook. It's still unacceptable, and something we are taking extremely seriously.
Ebele Okobi | Public Policy Director, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Oct 12, 2016, at 5:43 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet < [email protected]> wrote:
*The ACLU of California has obtained records showing that Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram provided user data access to Geofeedia, a developer of a social media monitoring product that we have seen marketed to law enforcement as a tool to monitor activists and protesters. We are pleased that after we reported our findings to the companies, Instagram cut off Geofeedia’s access to public user posts, and Facebook has cut its access to a topic-based feed of public user posts.*
More here: https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-future/facebook-instagram- and-twitter-provided-data-access-surveillance-product-marketed <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.aclu.org_blog_free-2Dfuture_facebook-2Dinstagram-2Dand-2Dtwitter-2Dprovided-2Ddata-2Daccess-2Dsurveillance-2Dproduct-2Dmarketed&d=DQMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=GhVvdCFxDu4EVUb8ylng2LCvR_0IBt5-yhOx6fQy7Ss&s=G0SoSpLD_f-qRWCjjSMY5s9GRO2y2wlRmg_ch_J_Tms&e=>
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I think I can try add an answer to it as an individual who has done apps and worked on Facebook SDKs. Normally how the data is handled by me, the consumer, is totally my own responsibility, provided I do not violate any of the terms. But for Facebook to track what I use the data for is an impossible process. Because that is in my silo, which Facebook may get into problems if it tries to bust into (back to the privacy discussion on that one - my apps are meant to be immune from Facebook intruding and trying to see what I am doing with even their own data). So there are 2 tricky bits here: 1. I am free to use the data I get as I wish - responsibly. 2. And Facebook can not police that. On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:21 PM, Stephanie Muchai via kictanet < [email protected]> wrote:
Very interesting convo & engagement. Good spirit and thoughtful responses Ebele, keep em coming đź‘Ť
My question for FB - how does FB usually ensure that these type of folks use the "publicly available" info they gather for the specific use assigned? Maybe you've answered this on the thread and I missed it.
Does the developer store the info they gather or no?
Is it just "accessed" on FB for a set time?
If they do store it, or even just are able to store it - what happens in countries with no data protection laws on gathering/use/storage of data?
Thanks,
Steph.
On 14 Oct 2016 19:27, "Anderson Levi via kictanet" < [email protected]> wrote:
Ngigi, has hit the nail on the head.
Everything else is "white noise".
If access to the API equals access to 'public' info then why all this...
On 14 Oct 2016 18:35, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < [email protected]> wrote:
This is not a legal issue. It's against the rules of Facebook's developer agreement for someone to pose as a commercial developer and then sell information it gathered based upon APIs targeting publicly available information to police. None of this is illegal-it's just really creepy and against our terms.
In answer to your last question, absolutely not.
Ebele Okobi | Public Policy Director, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Oct 14, 2016, at 3:16 PM, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet < [email protected]> wrote:
Ebele,
There is something about this that I am not understanding.
If the APIs only allows a developer to access *publicly* available information that is in the FB Platform, why would it be illegal for law enforcement / intelligence to even access it?
It can *only* be a problem if the API allows accessing *private *information from FB users.
Which then brings us to an even *bigger problem*; is FB allowing developers to access our private information and messaging on FB for commercial purposes?
Regards Sent from Nylas N1 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nylas.com_n1-3Fref-3Dn1&d=DQMGAA&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=ugY2LOWQPr3HVkgrJeaJsIdXO902T0vxQWS5mgsAFco&s=X_3RZcS17RcxE51g4k0hDYC6jHOANKOuvAWvYalu5ak&e=>, the extensible, open source mail client.
On Oct 12 2016, at 8:58 pm, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < [email protected]> wrote:
Yes-this is a mess, and this article isn't an accurate report. Basically-this was a private company that set itself up as a developer-same as, say, Candy Crush makers or those quiz things about your friends on FB. As a developer, it got access to API (see here http://readwrite.com/2013/09/19/api-defined/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__readwrite.com_2013_09_19_api-2Ddefined_&d=DQMGAA&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=ugY2LOWQPr3HVkgrJeaJsIdXO902T0vxQWS5mgsAFco&s=Mudkp_42mpAW4RqNFznaslWco7xHQOGfnxmHTYDfgbA&e=> for definition) that allowed it to build programs into FB. This allowed it to write programs targeting publicly available information on FB platform. That means-no private chats, no private groups, no data that users haven't made publicly available. The point of APIs in this context is SUPPOSED to be so advertisers (from small business to nonprofits to Andela, etc.) can send ads to targeted users. This group completely violated our policies and used their API access to target publicly available info to send to police. FB has kicked them off our platform. As you can imagine, there are many conversations now about this. But key to know that FB did NOT and does not sell user data; that this was a completely unauthorized use of our developer platform, that we rectified this as soon as we were notified, that the access was not to user data, but essentially a program that allowed them to target public info on Facebook. It's still unacceptable, and something we are taking extremely seriously.
Ebele Okobi | Public Policy Director, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Oct 12, 2016, at 5:43 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet < [email protected]> wrote:
*The ACLU of California has obtained records showing that Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram provided user data access to Geofeedia, a developer of a social media monitoring product that we have seen marketed to law enforcement as a tool to monitor activists and protesters. We are pleased that after we reported our findings to the companies, Instagram cut off Geofeedia’s access to public user posts, and Facebook has cut its access to a topic-based feed of public user posts.*
More here: https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-future/facebook-instagram-and -twitter-provided-data-access-surveillance-product-marketed <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.aclu.org_blog_free-2Dfuture_facebook-2Dinstagram-2Dand-2Dtwitter-2Dprovided-2Ddata-2Daccess-2Dsurveillance-2Dproduct-2Dmarketed&d=DQMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=GhVvdCFxDu4EVUb8ylng2LCvR_0IBt5-yhOx6fQy7Ss&s=G0SoSpLD_f-qRWCjjSMY5s9GRO2y2wlRmg_ch_J_Tms&e=>
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Curator - Global Shapers Mombasa Hub Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Curator - Global Shapers Mombasa Hub Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer swahilibox.co.ke globalshapers.org www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com ajplus.net www.everylayer.com
Just goes to show how the world revolves to do in an API enabled world.. Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad
On 14 Oct 2016, at 8:44 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <[email protected]> wrote:
I think I can try add an answer to it as an individual who has done apps and worked on Facebook SDKs.
Normally how the data is handled by me, the consumer, is totally my own responsibility, provided I do not violate any of the terms. But for Facebook to track what I use the data for is an impossible process. Because that is in my silo, which Facebook may get into problems if it tries to bust into (back to the privacy discussion on that one - my apps are meant to be immune from Facebook intruding and trying to see what I am doing with even their own data).
So there are 2 tricky bits here: I am free to use the data I get as I wish - responsibly. And Facebook can not police that.
On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:21 PM, Stephanie Muchai via kictanet <[email protected]> wrote: Very interesting convo & engagement. Good spirit and thoughtful responses Ebele, keep em coming đź‘Ť
My question for FB - how does FB usually ensure that these type of folks use the "publicly available" info they gather for the specific use assigned? Maybe you've answered this on the thread and I missed it.
Does the developer store the info they gather or no?
Is it just "accessed" on FB for a set time?
If they do store it, or even just are able to store it - what happens in countries with no data protection laws on gathering/use/storage of data?
Thanks,
Steph.
On 14 Oct 2016 19:27, "Anderson Levi via kictanet" <[email protected]> wrote: Ngigi, has hit the nail on the head.
Everything else is "white noise".
If access to the API equals access to 'public' info then why all this...
On 14 Oct 2016 18:35, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" <[email protected]> wrote: This is not a legal issue. It's against the rules of Facebook's developer agreement for someone to pose as a commercial developer and then sell information it gathered based upon APIs targeting publicly available information to police. None of this is illegal-it's just really creepy and against our terms.
In answer to your last question, absolutely not.
Ebele Okobi | Public Policy Director, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG [email protected]
On Oct 14, 2016, at 3:16 PM, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <[email protected]> wrote:
Ebele,
There is something about this that I am not understanding.
If the APIs only allows a developer to access *publicly* available information that is in the FB Platform, why would it be illegal for law enforcement / intelligence to even access it?
It can *only* be a problem if the API allows accessing *private *information from FB users.
Which then brings us to an even *bigger problem*; is FB allowing developers to access our private information and messaging on FB for commercial purposes?
Regards Sent from Nylas N1, the extensible, open source mail client.
On Oct 12 2016, at 8:58 pm, Ebele Okobi via kictanet <[email protected]> wrote: Yes-this is a mess, and this article isn't an accurate report. Basically-this was a private company that set itself up as a developer-same as, say, Candy Crush makers or those quiz things about your friends on FB. As a developer, it got access to API (see here http://readwrite.com/2013/09/19/api-defined/ for definition) that allowed it to build programs into FB. This allowed it to write programs targeting publicly available information on FB platform. That means-no private chats, no private groups, no data that users haven't made publicly available. The point of APIs in this context is SUPPOSED to be so advertisers (from small business to nonprofits to Andela, etc.) can send ads to targeted users. This group completely violated our policies and used their API access to target publicly available info to send to police. FB has kicked them off our platform. As you can imagine, there are many conversations now about this. But key to know that FB did NOT and does not sell user data; that this was a completely unauthorized use of our developer platform, that we rectified this as soon as we were notified, that the access was not to user data, but essentially a program that allowed them to target public info on Facebook. It's still unacceptable, and something we are taking extremely seriously.
Ebele Okobi | Public Policy Director, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG [email protected]
On Oct 12, 2016, at 5:43 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <[email protected]> wrote:
The ACLU of California has obtained records showing that Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram provided user data access to Geofeedia, a developer of a social media monitoring product that we have seen marketed to law enforcement as a tool to monitor activists and protesters. We are pleased that after we reported our findings to the companies, Instagram cut off Geofeedia’s access to public user posts, and Facebook has cut its access to a topic-based feed of public user posts.
More here: https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-future/facebook-instagram-and-twitter-provide...
-- Ahmed Maawy Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Curator - Global Shapers Mombasa Hub Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/anderson.levi%40gmail....
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gm...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Ahmed Maawy Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Curator - Global Shapers Mombasa Hub Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
swahilibox.co.ke globalshapers.org www.okfn.org startupgrind.com ajplus.net www.everylayer.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (3)
-
Ahmed Mohamed Maawy -
Ali Hussein -
Stephanie Muchai