Re: [kictanet] [I-coordination] The self correcting nature of the American system? Judge rules against NSA tapping program. Snowden vindicated?
Hi Ali, The genesis of the internet was collecting intelligence info, i bet it has to live up to its calling unless fundamentally redesigned. Best Regards Sent from Samsung tabletAli Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:Jorge By system being broken I mean the Governance Structures. It is a no brainer that the current Internet Governance structures where one nation has an oversized influence is no longer tenable. If sane and right minded governments and other institutions do not move fast to correct this then I'm afraid the move towards a Balkanized Internet is just a matter of time.. Ali Hussein +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113 "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad On Dec 17, 2013, at 6:38 AM, Jorge Amodio <jmamodio@gmail.com> wrote: I'd not base any discussions here on a decision of one US Federal judge or even the Supreme Court about a particular case. Also don't know what do you refer as "system being broken" or what others said " a broken Internet", there are many well known weaknesses, overall the network has been and is performing as expected or better based on the requirements and design criteria of the time, those requirements might be different today, so no one can expect that the "system" will perform as well with a new set of requirements if no changes are developed and implemented, like enhanced security and privacy. Many complain that the DNS is broken, well it is not totally broken, the problem is that it is being used for something it was not designed for, such as a directory service or a giant marketing billboard where commercial and property rights interests amplify the problems several orders of magnitude in an ecosystem that generated and industry of several billion dollars out of vaporware, add on top of that add improper or criminal use. -Jorge On Dec 16, 2013, at 7:59 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Listers Apologies for cross posting. In a landmark ruling a Federal District Court judge ruled on Monday that the National Security Agency program that is systematically keeping records of all Americans’ (and non Americans) phone calls most likely violates the Constitution, and he ordered the government to stop collecting data on two plaintiffs’ personal calls and destroy the records of their calling history. Despite the system being broken, is the American influence on Internet Governance the best we have right now? I can't imagine such a ruling in China or Russia, let alone India, Brazil or South Africa - the so called BRICS countries championing a new dispensation on Internet Governance.. Ali Hussein +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113 "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ I-coordination mailing list I-coordination@nro.net https://nro.net/mailman/listinfo/i-coordination
Well, to be fair, the genesis of the Internet was resilient digital communications between posts in the Cold War - not to collect intelligence information. But anyway, I think Ali's point is well taken - that the US justice system is more equipped to handle global issues around the Internet than any other state or collection of states. The problem with Internet governance is that it's in the vanguard of global governance generally and so it has to be made up as it goes along. We don't have a world government for much of anything. The UN fulfills its mandate of representing government interests in the Westphalian world in which we live and there really isn't any other forum with global capacity out there that has a direct democratic mandate with the people of the planet. This is going to take some time to fix :-) Cheers, Adam -- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 7:46 AM, otieno.barrack <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi Ali,
The genesis of the internet was collecting intelligence info, i bet it has to live up to its calling unless fundamentally redesigned.
Best Regards
Sent from Samsung tablet
Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Jorge
By system being broken I mean the Governance Structures. It is a no brainer that the current Internet Governance structures where one nation has an oversized influence is no longer tenable. If sane and right minded governments and other institutions do not move fast to correct this then I'm afraid the move towards a Balkanized Internet is just a matter of time..
Ali Hussein
+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 17, 2013, at 6:38 AM, Jorge Amodio <jmamodio@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd not base any discussions here on a decision of one US Federal judge or even the Supreme Court about a particular case.
Also don't know what do you refer as "system being broken" or what others said " a broken Internet", there are many well known weaknesses, overall the network has been and is performing as expected or better based on the requirements and design criteria of the time, those requirements might be different today, so no one can expect that the "system" will perform as well with a new set of requirements if no changes are developed and implemented, like enhanced security and privacy.
Many complain that the DNS is broken, well it is not totally broken, the problem is that it is being used for something it was not designed for, such as a directory service or a giant marketing billboard where commercial and property rights interests amplify the problems several orders of magnitude in an ecosystem that generated and industry of several billion dollars out of vaporware, add on top of that add improper or criminal use.
-Jorge
On Dec 16, 2013, at 7:59 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Listers
Apologies for cross posting.
In a landmark ruling a Federal District Court judge ruled on Monday that the National Security Agency program that is systematically keeping records of all Americans’ (and non Americans) phone calls most likely violates the Constitution, and he ordered the government to stop collecting data on two plaintiffs’ personal calls and destroy the records of their calling history.
Despite the system being broken, is the American influence on Internet Governance the best we have right now? I can't imagine such a ruling in China or Russia, let alone India, Brazil or South Africa - the so called BRICS countries championing a new dispensation on Internet Governance..
Ali Hussein
+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
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Adam Let me first smile :) Interesting that you only point to the US Judicial system being the 'best' equipped to deal with global Internet governance - let me just add 'In as much as it adheres to its National Interest'. And that is as it should be..and of course it follows that all countries have the same fiduciary responsibility however jaundiced.. The point Adam is that all countries and Organizations of goodwill need to wrap around this issue before it blows in our faces. Ali Hussein +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113 "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad
On Dec 17, 2013, at 10:04 AM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
Well, to be fair, the genesis of the Internet was resilient digital communications between posts in the Cold War - not to collect intelligence information.
But anyway, I think Ali's point is well taken - that the US justice system is more equipped to handle global issues around the Internet than any other state or collection of states.
The problem with Internet governance is that it's in the vanguard of global governance generally and so it has to be made up as it goes along. We don't have a world government for much of anything. The UN fulfills its mandate of representing government interests in the Westphalian world in which we live and there really isn't any other forum with global capacity out there that has a direct democratic mandate with the people of the planet.
This is going to take some time to fix :-)
Cheers, Adam
-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 7:46 AM, otieno.barrack <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Ali,
The genesis of the internet was collecting intelligence info, i bet it has to live up to its calling unless fundamentally redesigned.
Best Regards
Sent from Samsung tablet
Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Jorge
By system being broken I mean the Governance Structures. It is a no brainer that the current Internet Governance structures where one nation has an oversized influence is no longer tenable. If sane and right minded governments and other institutions do not move fast to correct this then I'm afraid the move towards a Balkanized Internet is just a matter of time..
Ali Hussein
+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 17, 2013, at 6:38 AM, Jorge Amodio <jmamodio@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd not base any discussions here on a decision of one US Federal judge or even the Supreme Court about a particular case.
Also don't know what do you refer as "system being broken" or what others said " a broken Internet", there are many well known weaknesses, overall the network has been and is performing as expected or better based on the requirements and design criteria of the time, those requirements might be different today, so no one can expect that the "system" will perform as well with a new set of requirements if no changes are developed and implemented, like enhanced security and privacy.
Many complain that the DNS is broken, well it is not totally broken, the problem is that it is being used for something it was not designed for, such as a directory service or a giant marketing billboard where commercial and property rights interests amplify the problems several orders of magnitude in an ecosystem that generated and industry of several billion dollars out of vaporware, add on top of that add improper or criminal use.
-Jorge
On Dec 16, 2013, at 7:59 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Listers
Apologies for cross posting.
In a landmark ruling a Federal District Court judge ruled on Monday that the National Security Agency program that is systematically keeping records of all Americans’ (and non Americans) phone calls most likely violates the Constitution, and he ordered the government to stop collecting data on two plaintiffs’ personal calls and destroy the records of their calling history.
Despite the system being broken, is the American influence on Internet Governance the best we have right now? I can't imagine such a ruling in China or Russia, let alone India, Brazil or South Africa - the so called BRICS countries championing a new dispensation on Internet Governance..
Ali Hussein
+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ I-coordination mailing list I-coordination@nro.net https://nro.net/mailman/listinfo/i-coordination
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (3)
-
Adam Nelson -
Ali Hussein -
otieno.barrack