Re: [kictanet] kictanet Digest, Vol 105, Issue 103
Paul, your statement seems to frame the pro-Net Neutrality advocacy as an "externally well funded" thing. Why is that? Regards, Nanjira. Sent from my iPhone.
On 27 Feb 2016, at 10:08, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Mwendwa Kivuva) 2. Re: Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Paul Roy) 3. Re: Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Ebele Okobi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 09:57:28 +0300 From: Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Net neutrality 'first world' problem? Message-ID: <CAEhPqwqNYPVfqOAVrdaiV_XoC1mwsLthCVaUvW_=U-ysGaKnAg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Dr. Waudo,
"I attack ideas, I don't attack people - and some very good people have some very bad ideas" - Antonin Scalia
Allowing people to break the Internet is the slippery road. Allowing others to break the Internet for the developing world is like saying; "we should use second hand, we are second rate citizens, for us anything goes. We can take anything. Hell we are poor, we are beggars. Please give us crumbs".
When will developing countries start asserting themselves? You know what, countries that believe in the best for themselves in the end becomes outliers. These are the little differences that after a long while separates the masters from the slaves.
Imagine two digital natives, one born in North America with access to the Internet, and the second born in Africa with access to just a few services of the Internet. After 20 years, they meet in the corporate scenes. How will they compete? This was illustrated very clearly thousands of years ago by Plato in the "Allegory of the cave".
The narrative should be " We deserve the best, we are rich both in spirit and ideologies, we will go for the best, we deserve the best". After that we find solutions to getting what we deserve. Let us not settle for less. Remember, as Voltaire said, no problem can withstand the assault of sustained thinking
The argument that a little few websites are better than non is a non starter.
Sincerely
On 27/02/2016, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Liz
Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately I think that notion is too simplistic. Net Neutrality is not only a first world problem. And comparing it with bread and other foods is basically missing the point.
Let's address it from an infrastructure point of view. Firstly the Internet is now so critical that this Balkanization that is happening is discriminatory. The likes of the Internet Giants who dole out a walled garden form of Internet access have zero motive for the good of the African people - they are after eyeballs. Plain and simple. Eyeballs mean money.
Secondly, the government has a responsibility to make the Internet affordable, and to make access free in marginalized areas and communities. That's why we have the Universal Access Fund.
Thirdly, to say that Net Neutrality is a first world problem is to rubbish all the startups that are struggling to build content in Africa. They surely don't have the muscle of Google or Facebook to dole out 'Free Access'. And if we allow this to happen they will have a snowball in hell getting their content read.
Our CS is quoted as saying:-
It?s like saying someone has no food, but if someone brings them bread we are not going to allow them to have the bread because they must have a balanced diet,? he said. ?I don?t think that works for me.?
I'll compare this statement with access to roads. So if we don't have access to roads we should accept potholed ones? Granted we may not have a choice but to use the potholed ones (as is the case). However it sure doesn't make it right! Someone is dropping the ball and they must be made accountable.
One thing I'll concede is that Net Neutrality as defined by the first world is just not workable here. That's why we must define Net Neutrality from an African perspective.
A National Forum is long overdue.
Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 26 Feb 2016, at 9:43 PM, Liz Orembo via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Interesting read.
http://mgafrica.com/article/2016-02-24-africa-internet-access-more-important...
--
Best regards. Liz.
PGP ID: 0x1F3488BF _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 10:01:11 +0300 From: Paul Roy <roykoikai@gmail.com> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Net neutrality 'first world' problem? Message-ID: <CA+AXev7jnLzqGeoDg5WoM08_pCk7iQvZpP+GEKWEApO9gqH-1A@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I think you jumped the gun here Ali. The CS's point is that we have a long way to go in expanding internet access for now that we should not be worried about net neutrality kind of discussions.
This doesn't mean that lobbyist and special interest groups that are externally well funded should not express their ideas and opinions in public forums, but to also acknowledge the effort the government is doing.
Back to your analogy of roads, If you have no roads you would not insist on having a tarmac road as the only form of acceptable road. An all weathered road will be better than no road at all. Of course you can always ask for it's upgrade.
On public forum discussion - i totally agree on the need to have one soonest.
On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 7:38 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Liz
Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately I think that notion is too simplistic. Net Neutrality is not only a first world problem. And comparing it with bread and other foods is basically missing the point.
Let's address it from an infrastructure point of view. Firstly the Internet is now so critical that this Balkanization that is happening is discriminatory. The likes of the Internet Giants who dole out a walled garden form of Internet access have zero motive for the good of the African people - they are after eyeballs. Plain and simple. Eyeballs mean money.
Secondly, the government has a responsibility to make the Internet affordable, and to make access free in marginalized areas and communities. That's why we have the Universal Access Fund.
Thirdly, to say that Net Neutrality is a first world problem is to rubbish all the startups that are struggling to build content in Africa. They surely don't have the muscle of Google or Facebook to dole out 'Free Access'. And if we allow this to happen they will have a snowball in hell getting their content read.
Our CS is quoted as saying:-
It?s like saying someone has no food, but if someone brings them bread we are not going to allow them to have the bread because they must have a balanced diet,? he said. ?I don?t think that works for me.?
I'll compare this statement with access to roads. So if we don't have access to roads we should accept potholed ones? Granted we may not have a choice but to use the potholed ones (as is the case). However it sure doesn't make it right! Someone is dropping the ball and they must be made accountable.
One thing I'll concede is that Net Neutrality as defined by the first world is just not workable here. That's why we must define Net Neutrality from an African perspective.
A National Forum is long overdue.
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 26 Feb 2016, at 9:43 PM, Liz Orembo via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Interesting read.
http://mgafrica.com/article/2016-02-24-africa-internet-access-more-important...
--
Best regards. Liz.
PGP ID: 0x1F3488BF
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/roykoikai%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
Roy.
First I am pro-net neutrality, however I am aware of special interest groups who are out to advocate the interests of their organizations by popular means. Our national interest is bigger than that of a particular company or organization and that should manifest in all our policy discussions. On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Nanjira Sambuli via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Paul, your statement seems to frame the pro-Net Neutrality advocacy as an "externally well funded" thing. Why is that?
Regards, Nanjira.
Sent from my iPhone.
On 27 Feb 2016, at 10:08, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
Send kictanet mailing list submissions to kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke
You can reach the person managing the list at kictanet-owner@lists.kictanet.or.ke
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Mwendwa Kivuva) 2. Re: Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Paul Roy) 3. Re: Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Ebele Okobi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 09:57:28 +0300 From: Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Net neutrality 'first world' problem? Message-ID: <CAEhPqwqNYPVfqOAVrdaiV_XoC1mwsLthCVaUvW_=U-ysGaKnAg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Dr. Waudo,
"I attack ideas, I don't attack people - and some very good people have some very bad ideas" - Antonin Scalia
Allowing people to break the Internet is the slippery road. Allowing others to break the Internet for the developing world is like saying; "we should use second hand, we are second rate citizens, for us anything goes. We can take anything. Hell we are poor, we are beggars. Please give us crumbs".
When will developing countries start asserting themselves? You know what, countries that believe in the best for themselves in the end becomes outliers. These are the little differences that after a long while separates the masters from the slaves.
Imagine two digital natives, one born in North America with access to the Internet, and the second born in Africa with access to just a few services of the Internet. After 20 years, they meet in the corporate scenes. How will they compete? This was illustrated very clearly thousands of years ago by Plato in the "Allegory of the cave".
The narrative should be " We deserve the best, we are rich both in spirit and ideologies, we will go for the best, we deserve the best". After that we find solutions to getting what we deserve. Let us not settle for less. Remember, as Voltaire said, no problem can withstand the assault of sustained thinking
The argument that a little few websites are better than non is a non starter.
Sincerely
On 27/02/2016, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Liz
Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately I think that notion is too simplistic. Net Neutrality is not only a first world problem. And comparing it with bread and other foods is basically missing the point.
Let's address it from an infrastructure point of view. Firstly the Internet is now so critical that this Balkanization that is happening is discriminatory. The likes of the Internet Giants who dole out a walled garden form of Internet access have zero motive for the good of the African people - they are after eyeballs. Plain and simple. Eyeballs mean money.
Secondly, the government has a responsibility to make the Internet affordable, and to make access free in marginalized areas and communities. That's why we have the Universal Access Fund.
Thirdly, to say that Net Neutrality is a first world problem is to rubbish all the startups that are struggling to build content in Africa. They surely don't have the muscle of Google or Facebook to dole out 'Free Access'. And if we allow this to happen they will have a snowball in hell getting their content read.
Our CS is quoted as saying:-
It?s like saying someone has no food, but if someone brings them bread we are not going to allow them to have the bread because they must have a balanced diet,? he said. ?I don?t think that works for me.?
I'll compare this statement with access to roads. So if we don't have access to roads we should accept potholed ones? Granted we may not have a choice but to use the potholed ones (as is the case). However it sure doesn't make it right! Someone is dropping the ball and they must be made accountable.
One thing I'll concede is that Net Neutrality as defined by the first world is just not workable here. That's why we must define Net Neutrality from an African perspective.
A National Forum is long overdue.
Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 26 Feb 2016, at 9:43 PM, Liz Orembo via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Interesting read.
http://mgafrica.com/article/2016-02-24-africa-internet-access-more-important...
--
Best regards. Liz.
PGP ID: 0x1F3488BF _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 10:01:11 +0300 From: Paul Roy <roykoikai@gmail.com> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Net neutrality 'first world' problem? Message-ID: <CA+AXev7jnLzqGeoDg5WoM08_pCk7iQvZpP+GEKWEApO9gqH-1A@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I think you jumped the gun here Ali. The CS's point is that we have a long way to go in expanding internet access for now that we should not be worried about net neutrality kind of discussions.
This doesn't mean that lobbyist and special interest groups that are externally well funded should not express their ideas and opinions in public forums, but to also acknowledge the effort the government is doing.
Back to your analogy of roads, If you have no roads you would not insist on having a tarmac road as the only form of acceptable road. An all weathered road will be better than no road at all. Of course you can always ask for it's upgrade.
On public forum discussion - i totally agree on the need to have one soonest.
On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 7:38 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Liz
Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately I think that notion is too simplistic. Net Neutrality is not only a first world problem. And comparing it with bread and other foods is basically missing the point.
Let's address it from an infrastructure point of view. Firstly the Internet is now so critical that this Balkanization that is happening is discriminatory. The likes of the Internet Giants who dole out a walled garden form of Internet access have zero motive for the good of the African people - they are after eyeballs. Plain and simple. Eyeballs mean money.
Secondly, the government has a responsibility to make the Internet affordable, and to make access free in marginalized areas and communities. That's why we have the Universal Access Fund.
Thirdly, to say that Net Neutrality is a first world problem is to rubbish all the startups that are struggling to build content in Africa. They surely don't have the muscle of Google or Facebook to dole out 'Free Access'. And if we allow this to happen they will have a snowball in hell getting their content read.
Our CS is quoted as saying:-
It?s like saying someone has no food, but if someone brings them bread we are not going to allow them to have the bread because they must have a balanced diet,? he said. ?I don?t think that works for me.?
I'll compare this statement with access to roads. So if we don't have access to roads we should accept potholed ones? Granted we may not have a choice but to use the potholed ones (as is the case). However it sure doesn't make it right! Someone is dropping the ball and they must be made accountable.
One thing I'll concede is that Net Neutrality as defined by the first world is just not workable here. That's why we must define Net Neutrality from an African perspective.
A National Forum is long overdue.
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 26 Feb 2016, at 9:43 PM, Liz Orembo via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Interesting read.
http://mgafrica.com/article/2016-02-24-africa-internet-access-more-important...
--
Best regards. Liz.
PGP ID: 0x1F3488BF
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/roykoikai%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
Roy.
participants (2)
-
Nanjira Sambuli -
Paul Roy