My point exactly Mose, Great Britain was partly a product of the likes of William Wilberforce who spearheaded the the reformation of manners that castigated among other things ownership of another human being the so called 'slave trade'. I guess we need more of such men in this age if we are achieve vision 2030 and other national aspirations. However i agree with you we are in a different dispensation. On 2/24/16, Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> wrote:

Barrack, Unfortunately, value systems are more often than not the reflection of the wishes of the majority. This does not mean they are wrong. In most cases they are actually favourable for all involved. However, when the practice and success of those value systems implies the subordination of the values of minorities, then such a society is not strengthening its social fabric. It is setting itself up for eventual collapse.

Before 1807, it was perfectly legal to buy and sell humans and use them as slaves. That was the value system then. Then it stopped, albeit gradually. As someone who has a twin, if we were born 100 years earlier in some African communities, we would have been killed because twins were considered a curse, based on their value systems. It was the US value system that women should not by default vote. Then it changed in 1920. It was the value and legal system here in Kenya before 1963 that Black Kenyans could not own property or live in some parts of their country. Then it changed.

The point I am trying to make Barrack is, value systems do not necessarily speak of the wishes of everyone. If the oppressed find opportunities to reverse this and seek equality, then they do it (Civil Rights Movements, AntiSlave Trade, Equal Marriage Act, Fight for Independence…). Some things start off as taboos, gradually get accepted, get to be high fashion, lose the shine and become cultural artefacts. I think this is what our treatment of the LGBTQ citizens is at this point.

I am a firm believer in a fair world for all. The Internet is a great enabler. We should not take it away from whom it means something, sometimes life and death.

PS: pole about the matatu madness on the road. Now, those are folks who think might is right. Their value system is oppressive.

Moses

...

On Feb 24, 2016, at 2:13 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Moses,

It goes back to our value systems as a Nation, what is considered moral offline should be considered moral online and vice versa. I think the mandate of the Kenya Film Classification Board is very clear and is based on our constitution and should be debated against that.

The Internet is just a tool even though we try to ascribe a lot of fanciness to it, it can be used to build or to destroy communities and nations. It is upon us to decide whether we want to hide under philosophical arguments or strengthen the value systems in our society which will in turn strengthen the very society we live in, we cannot hide our heads in the sand and accept everything that comes our way.

Over the weekend my car was hit while stationary in a traffic jam by a Matatu being driven by 'cool' young men. They bullied me to make way for their vehicle since they were in a hurry, the worst part is they never stopped to apologize even after damaging my car, fellow Kenyans on the road found this unacceptable and asked me to pursue the young men and have a word with them, i succeed in blocking them and found myself in a situation i did not anticipate. The driver was a childhood friend totally intoxicated and indulging in the same drug abuse as he was driving carrying 33 passengers, i will not even talk about the blaring music whose content we are all aware of. To make it worse the drove through two police checks with approximately seven policemen.

I suppose that is the Kenya we want, but we need to pose and reflect on our Social Fabric.

Regards

On 2/24/16, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:

...

Hello listers,

The Internet has been a great platform for sexual minorities and those who work to defend their rights for organization, support groups and as safe haven from hostile offline environments. The video clip in question was uploaded, not sold on the streets of Nairobi, in part because the Internet is a safer platform for the LGBTQ community.

My thinking on this is not even a question of legality but rather about the cultural expectations we have in our country on this topic. If tomorrow the LGBTQ community successfully lodged a constitutional case on the illegality of the clauses incriminating their very identity, the people they live with in their neighbourhoods, schools, churches and mosques would not accept them overnight. It will take time and immense effort to build a critical mass who take our brothers and sisters who are sexual minorities as human beings. As human rights defenders, out role should then be to keep the Internet as that safe haven for the LGBTQ.

Moses.

...

On Feb 24, 2016, at 12:23 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:

Send kictanet mailing list submissions to kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke

You can reach the person managing the list at kictanet-owner@lists.kictanet.or.ke

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..." Today's Topics:

1. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (Mildred Achoch) 2. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (simiyu mse)

From: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 11:59:52 AM EAT To: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>

Hi Ken,

Let me ask some questions in an attempt to answer your question (and at the risk of opening a can of worms)

1. Note: I don't know the details of the laws regarding homosexuality in Kenya. My question is: in Kenya, is it illegal to practice homosexuality or is it illegal to BE a homosexual?

2. Related to the above question, as an artist/creative/content producer whose role in society is to hold up a mirror using my art, is it illegal to portray what is already happening in society? Crime is illegal yet Nairobi Halflife was not banned. :-)

It goes back to the muddy issue of morality. It seems in Kenya, some crimes are deemed more hazardous than others and these skewed views trickle down to censorship parameters.

The issue of obeying the laws of the land is also muddy, especially in this age of globalization. Is my online TV channel, which is available only on the Internet, hosted by a foreign country and with majority of viewers being non-Kenyans, subject to the laws of Kenya (only)?

Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/ <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:31 AM, simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com> <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com>>> wrote: Hello Mildred.

Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.

However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.

Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?

Kind regards.

./ken

The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.

My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:

1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?

In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.

2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?

In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.

3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.

I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.

Just my two cents :-)

Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/> <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/ <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>>> wrote: Listers

This may be of interest.

http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/> <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.

1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?

2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?

3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.

I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.

Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.

Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>>

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com>>

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>>

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kensimiyu%40gmail.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kensimiyu%40gmail.com> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kensimiyu%40gmail.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kensimiyu%40gmail.com>>

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

From: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 9:31:54 AM EAT To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>>

Hello Mildred.

Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.

However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.

Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?

Kind regards.

./ken

The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.

My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:

1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?

In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.

2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?

In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.

3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.

I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.

Just my two cents :-)

Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/> <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/ <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>>> wrote: Listers

This may be of interest.

http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/> <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.

1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?

2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?

3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.

I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.

Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.

Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>>

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com>>

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>>

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kensimiyu%40gmail.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kensimiyu%40gmail.com> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kensimiyu%40gmail.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kensimiyu%40gmail.com>>

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>

--- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja>> | PGP: 0x1529552F <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F>>

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254733206359 Skype: barrack.otieno

--- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja> | PGP: 0x1529552F <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F>

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254733206359 Skype: barrack.otieno