Re: [kictanet] Expensive software systems?
Bro. Antoine, Great reading back from you. I believe together we can, and shall, overcome. Best rgrds, Shem --- On Fri, 6/27/08, antoine bigirimana <antoine@e-tools.com> wrote: From: antoine bigirimana <antoine@e-tools.com> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Expensive software systems? To: shemochuodho@yahoo.com, kiriinya2000@yahoo.com, "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Cc: "'New Vision List'" <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>, "'Haron Wachira'" <hwachira@itakenya.com> Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 2:57 PM Hello Shem, Thank you very much for mentioning SmartGov ERP developed in Rwanda by E-Tools Rwanda. Hello All, The systems developed for USA , Canada and European Union tend to include many features that are not necessarily relevant for the East African market and they are also very expensive. We believe the most cost effective solution for our developing and poor countries is to use our local talent, supplemented if need be by seasoned international experts: more and more these internationals may even have roots in East Africa . The cost savings are twofold: support is local and easier; our people are cheaper even when they earn top salary in our economies: it is not rare to get a ratio of 1 to 5. The savings could be then used to solve some other urgent problems. E-Tools Rwanda and E-Tools Kenya are designed to create any software solution required in the East African region. antoine From: Shem Ochuodho [mailto:shemochuodho@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 11:55 AM To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: New Vision List; Haron Wachira; Antoine BIGIRIMANA-Yahoo Subject: Re: [kictanet] Expensive software systems? Wesley, Actually given the right parameters, even ERP-like software can be locally developed. The two closest examples of ERP-like systems I have come across that were 'locally' developed were: a system by Haron Wachira (he formerly of Diamond Systems - the 1st Kenyan firm to assemble computers) which I remember being used by a major Tea company through its network, among others, and Rwanda 's SmartGov. There is a very thin line between these systems and conventional ERPs. Btw, before I even thought that 'hardware' manufacture/assembly is a pipe-dream for us - until I came across the 'fabless trend' that Nigeria is already pushing. It is truly cutting-edge technology - and 'knowledge work'. For those who might not know, in such a scenario, a country/firm that does not have the technology to 'manufacture' chips/VLSI can still design systems, and then send designs to places like Malaysia for production/manufacture of the chips. The 'intelligence' or brain-work (and hence the money) is not in the manufacture, but in the design, particularly for products whose value is in the uniqueness/complexity, not numbers. In effect, if the environment is right, it is doable. Shem --- On Wed, 6/25/08, wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> wrote: From: wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Expensive software systems? To: "Shem Ochuodho" <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 12:55 PM
Locally developing ERP (and other complex) systems is definitely possible, given the right environment. Such an environment includes proper pay. I do not like the idea that local talent is cheaper - to attract and retain quality developers, I would suggest paying locals nothing less than what the foreign developers would ask for. It is the failure to reward local talent properly that has led to the infamous 'brain drain'. I believe such a system cannot be a 'one-man' show otherwise corporates will find it difficult to rely on systems whose continuity lies on loose ground. Developing an ERP is a long-term project whose fruits can only be gained over a long time. This is the reason ERPs are more generic as opposed to being a particular organisation's-needs specific. To me, most of the prices fairly compare to the amount of effort that goes to the development and measures fairly well against the value of corporate assets the systems protect. So... let's invest in the development of systems that compete with the best in the world, and price to compete with them, not just to pay locals 1/5! Sylvester From: kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Shem Ochuodho Sent: 28 June 2008 12:50 To: skisonzo@gmail.com Cc: 'New Vision List'; 'Haron Wachira'; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Expensive software systems? Bro. Antoine, Great reading back from you. I believe together we can, and shall, overcome. Best rgrds, Shem --- On Fri, 6/27/08, antoine bigirimana <antoine@e-tools.com> wrote: From: antoine bigirimana <antoine@e-tools.com> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Expensive software systems? To: shemochuodho@yahoo.com, kiriinya2000@yahoo.com, "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Cc: "'New Vision List'" <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>, "'Haron Wachira'" <hwachira@itakenya.com> Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 2:57 PM Hello Shem, Thank you very much for mentioning SmartGov ERP developed in Rwanda by E-Tools Rwanda. Hello All, The systems developed for USA , Canada and European Union tend to include many features that are not necessarily relevant for the East African market and they are also very expensive. We believe the most cost effective solution for our developing and poor countries is to use our local talent, supplemented if need be by seasoned international experts: more and more these internationals may even have roots in East Africa . The cost savings are twofold: support is local and easier; our people are cheaper even when they earn top salary in our economies: it is not rare to get a ratio of 1 to 5. The savings could be then used to solve some other urgent problems. E-Tools Rwanda and E-Tools Kenya are designed to create any software solution required in the East African region. antoine _____ From: Shem Ochuodho [mailto:shemochuodho@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 11:55 AM To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: New Vision List; Haron Wachira; Antoine BIGIRIMANA-Yahoo Subject: Re: [kictanet] Expensive software systems? Wesley, Actually given the right parameters, even ERP-like software can be locally developed. The two closest examples of ERP-like systems I have come across that were 'locally' developed were: a system by Haron Wachira (he formerly of Diamond Systems - the 1st Kenyan firm to assemble computers) which I remember being used by a major Tea company through its network, among others, and Rwanda 's SmartGov. There is a very thin line between these systems and conventional ERPs. Btw, before I even thought that 'hardware' manufacture/assembly is a pipe-dream for us - until I came across the 'fabless trend' that Nigeria is already pushing. It is truly cutting-edge technology - and 'knowledge work'. For those who might not know, in such a scenario, a country/firm that does not have the technology to 'manufacture' chips/VLSI can still design systems, and then send designs to places like Malaysia for production/manufacture of the chips. The 'intelligence' or brain-work (and hence the money) is not in the manufacture, but in the design, particularly for products whose value is in the uniqueness/complexity, not numbers. In effect, if the environment is right, it is doable. Shem --- On Wed, 6/25/08, wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> wrote: From: wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Expensive software systems? To: "Shem Ochuodho" <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 12:55 PM
TSC has sent RFP for a system for managing their 230,000 members to be used by the 2500 staff.. Check todays Daily Nation. Before we complain that the system is expensive, and the deal has been won by "Brazil" or anyone else for that matter, let all who can respond to the RFP. Synergies can be developed by working together, if necessary. Regards, Titus. 2008/6/28 Sylvester Kisonzo <skisonzo@securenet.co.ke>
Locally developing ERP (and other complex) systems is definitely possible, given the right environment. Such an environment includes proper pay. I do not like the idea that local talent is cheaper – to attract and retain quality developers, I would suggest paying locals nothing less than what the foreign developers would ask for. It is the failure to reward local talent properly that has led to the infamous 'brain drain'.
I believe such a system cannot be a 'one-man' show otherwise corporates will find it difficult to rely on systems whose continuity lies on loose ground. Developing an ERP is a long-term project whose fruits can only be gained over a long time. This is the reason ERPs are more generic as opposed to being a particular organisation's-needs specific.
To me, most of the prices fairly compare to the amount of effort that goes to the development and measures fairly well against the value of corporate assets the systems protect.
So... let's invest in the development of systems that compete with the best in the world, and price to compete with them, not just to pay locals 1/5!
Sylvester
*From:* kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto: kictanet-bounces+skisonzo <kictanet-bounces%2Bskisonzo>=gmail.com@ lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Shem Ochuodho *Sent:* 28 June 2008 12:50 *To:* skisonzo@gmail.com *Cc:* 'New Vision List'; 'Haron Wachira'; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Expensive software systems?
Bro. Antoine,
Great reading back from you. I believe together we can, and shall, overcome.
Best rgrds,
Shem
--- On *Fri, 6/27/08, antoine bigirimana <antoine@e-tools.com>* wrote:
From: antoine bigirimana <antoine@e-tools.com> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Expensive software systems? To: shemochuodho@yahoo.com, kiriinya2000@yahoo.com, "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Cc: "'New Vision List'" <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>, "'Haron Wachira'" <hwachira@itakenya.com> Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 2:57 PM
Hello Shem,
Thank you very much for mentioning SmartGov ERP developed in Rwanda by E-Tools Rwanda.
Hello All,
The systems developed for USA , Canada and European Union
tend to include many features that are not necessarily relevant for the East African market and they are also very expensive.
We believe the most cost effective solution for our developing and poor countries is to use our local talent, supplemented if need be
by seasoned international experts: more and more these internationals may even have roots in East Africa . The cost savings are twofold: support is local and easier; our people are cheaper even when they earn top salary in our economies: it is not rare to get a ratio of 1 to 5. The savings could be then used to solve some other urgent problems.
E-Tools Rwanda and E-Tools Kenya are designed to create any software solution required in the East African region.
antoine
------------------------------
*From:* Shem Ochuodho [mailto:shemochuodho@yahoo.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, June 25, 2008 11:55 AM *To:* kiriinya2000@yahoo.com; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Cc:* New Vision List; Haron Wachira; Antoine BIGIRIMANA-Yahoo *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Expensive software systems?
Wesley,
Actually given the right parameters, even ERP-like software can be locally developed. The two closest examples of ERP-like systems I have come across that were 'locally' developed were: a system by Haron Wachira (he formerly of Diamond Systems - the 1st Kenyan firm to assemble computers) which I remember being used by a major Tea company through its network, among others, and Rwanda 's SmartGov. There is a very thin line between these systems and conventional ERPs.
Btw, before I even thought that 'hardware' manufacture/assembly is a pipe-dream for us - until I came across the 'fabless trend' that Nigeria is already pushing. It is truly cutting-edge technology - and 'knowledge work'. For those who might not know, in such a scenario, a country/firm that does not have the technology to 'manufacture' chips/VLSI can still design systems, and then send designs to places like Malaysia for production/manufacture of the chips. The 'intelligence' or brain-work (and hence the money) is not in the manufacture, but in the design, particularly for products whose value is in the uniqueness/complexity, not numbers.
In effect, if the environment is right, it is doable.
Shem
--- On *Wed, 6/25/08, wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com>* wrote:
From: wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Expensive software systems? To: "Shem Ochuodho" <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 12:55 PM
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My first post . The scariest thing about these projects is that the "buyer" rarely knows enough about technology to make a good call - especially recent technology . This is the same all over . I continue to see it from our clients all over the world . if I was advising TSC, I would tell them it's much cheaper to pick an Open source ERP package and hire a team to build . (Do they have a CTO ?) With such a setup, TSC should be able to get a pretty good ROI . and results . as opposed to the RFP way (In Kenya there is a biiiig gap between one man shows and the major software vendors . let's call is a canyon . since it feels like a lot of bigger projects fail there) 2500 staff and 230,000 members is a small system . that's like a system for a small credit union. Also, I know it sounds cool, but building a Kenyan ERP system may not be the best use for money . its kinda like Nyayo Pioneer (no big market, no spares . even Kenyans did not go for it in droves). why build when one can extend an open source package or buy Oracle or SAP etc. Liko Agosta, CEO Verviant Consulting Services. <http://www.verviant.com> www.verviant.com Phone : 1-919-341-1820 Fax : 1-978-268-8403 Toll Free: 1-866-551-4935 Pager: <mailto:9193891551@txt.att.net> 9193891551@txt.att.net From: kictanet-bounces+likoa=verviant.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+likoa=verviant.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Titus Njoroge Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 2:11 AM To: Liko Agosta Cc: New Vision List; Haron Wachira; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Expensive software systems? TSC has sent RFP for a system for managing their 230,000 members to be used by the 2500 staff.. Check todays Daily Nation. Before we complain that the system is expensive, and the deal has been won by "Brazil" or anyone else for that matter, let all who can respond to the RFP. Synergies can be developed by working together, if necessary. Regards, Titus. 2008/6/28 Sylvester Kisonzo <skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> Locally developing ERP (and other complex) systems is definitely possible, given the right environment. Such an environment includes proper pay. I do not like the idea that local talent is cheaper - to attract and retain quality developers, I would suggest paying locals nothing less than what the foreign developers would ask for. It is the failure to reward local talent properly that has led to the infamous 'brain drain'. I believe such a system cannot be a 'one-man' show otherwise corporates will find it difficult to rely on systems whose continuity lies on loose ground. Developing an ERP is a long-term project whose fruits can only be gained over a long time. This is the reason ERPs are more generic as opposed to being a particular organisation's-needs specific. To me, most of the prices fairly compare to the amount of effort that goes to the development and measures fairly well against the value of corporate assets the systems protect. So... let's invest in the development of systems that compete with the best in the world, and price to compete with them, not just to pay locals 1/5! Sylvester From: kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bskisonzo> =gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Shem Ochuodho Sent: 28 June 2008 12:50 To: skisonzo@gmail.com Cc: 'New Vision List'; 'Haron Wachira'; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Expensive software systems? Bro. Antoine, Great reading back from you. I believe together we can, and shall, overcome. Best rgrds, Shem --- On Fri, 6/27/08, antoine bigirimana <antoine@e-tools.com> wrote: From: antoine bigirimana <antoine@e-tools.com> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Expensive software systems? To: shemochuodho@yahoo.com, kiriinya2000@yahoo.com, "'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Cc: "'New Vision List'" <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>, "'Haron Wachira'" <hwachira@itakenya.com> Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 2:57 PM Hello Shem, Thank you very much for mentioning SmartGov ERP developed in Rwanda by E-Tools Rwanda. Hello All, The systems developed for USA , Canada and European Union tend to include many features that are not necessarily relevant for the East African market and they are also very expensive. We believe the most cost effective solution for our developing and poor countries is to use our local talent, supplemented if need be by seasoned international experts: more and more these internationals may even have roots in East Africa . The cost savings are twofold: support is local and easier; our people are cheaper even when they earn top salary in our economies: it is not rare to get a ratio of 1 to 5. The savings could be then used to solve some other urgent problems. E-Tools Rwanda and E-Tools Kenya are designed to create any software solution required in the East African region. antoine _____ From: Shem Ochuodho [mailto:shemochuodho@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 11:55 AM To: kiriinya2000@yahoo.com; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: New Vision List; Haron Wachira; Antoine BIGIRIMANA-Yahoo Subject: Re: [kictanet] Expensive software systems? Wesley, Actually given the right parameters, even ERP-like software can be locally developed. The two closest examples of ERP-like systems I have come across that were 'locally' developed were: a system by Haron Wachira (he formerly of Diamond Systems - the 1st Kenyan firm to assemble computers) which I remember being used by a major Tea company through its network, among others, and Rwanda 's SmartGov. There is a very thin line between these systems and conventional ERPs. Btw, before I even thought that 'hardware' manufacture/assembly is a pipe-dream for us - until I came across the 'fabless trend' that Nigeria is already pushing. It is truly cutting-edge technology - and 'knowledge work'. For those who might not know, in such a scenario, a country/firm that does not have the technology to 'manufacture' chips/VLSI can still design systems, and then send designs to places like Malaysia for production/manufacture of the chips. The 'intelligence' or brain-work (and hence the money) is not in the manufacture, but in the design, particularly for products whose value is in the uniqueness/complexity, not numbers. In effect, if the environment is right, it is doable. Shem --- On Wed, 6/25/08, wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> wrote: From: wesley kiriinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Expensive software systems? To: "Shem Ochuodho" <shemochuodho@yahoo.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 12:55 PM _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: titonjoroge@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/titonjoroge%40gmail.com
participants (4)
-
Liko Agosta -
Shem Ochuodho -
Sylvester Kisonzo -
Titus Njoroge