A while back, the government announced that it would prosecute anyone sending hate messages via SMS. Safaricom's CEO mentioned in a post to this list that they were working on a filtering system to stop hate messages, pornography, etc. Are these actions right? Is Big Brother (in George Orwell's 1984) watching us? I guess valid arguments can be made both for and against the government invading its citizens privacy in the interest of national security, what I'd like to know is, are these actions legal? Are there laws in Kenya to protect the right to privacy? Are communication companies bound by law to protect their customers information? Are these laws, if any, enforced? Miano Njoka.
Mr. Njoka, You do not have any right at all sending hate messages. This will land you in jail. Check the penal code. Yes the Government will prosecute those who violete rights of other people. Government applies the laws made by our representatives and if you do not like them, you lobby your mps to change them. This debate has pt no real meaning in this forum unless you specific proposals that would help create an ideal society.. Bitange Ndemo Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: "Miano Njoka" <mianonjoka@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:03:21 To:bitange@jambo.co.ke Cc:KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Is Big Brother watching us? A while back, the government announced that it would prosecute anyone sending hate messages via SMS. Safaricom's CEO mentioned in a post to this list that they were working on a filtering system to stop hate messages, pornography, etc. Are these actions right? Is Big Brother (in George Orwell's 1984) watching us? I guess valid arguments can be made both for and against the government invading its citizens privacy in the interest of national security, what I'd like to know is, are these actions legal? Are there laws in Kenya to protect the right to privacy? Are communication companies bound by law to protect their customers information? Are these laws, if any, enforced? Miano Njoka. -------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by <http://www.mail.jambo.co.ke/> Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world" _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke
Bwana PS,Dr Bitange Ndemo, I would like to join the debate by first of all making my stand that hate message is something negative which only radiates negative energies, attitudes, and other aspects that are hindrance to peaceful coexistence among fellow citizens. My areas of concern are; Kenyans have been made by customs to rely on rumors on issues that the media are scared of posting for obvious reasons. What would baffle anyone is somehow some of these rumors have come to be true. The state intelligence and the press actually rely on the same for further investigations. So, where is the thin line between the hate message and concerns by the citizens? As we speak, how many Kenyans with mobile phones can clearly define what a hate message is? This is more so when we have to consider languages (vernacular) and cultures in different parts of the country. We should invite a legal expert to shade light on areas of electronic media. I believe many on this list have mainly been expressing their concern as relates to privacy. What does my contract with say Safaricom or Celtel entail? In my view, I would want to look at the SMS services positively as business tools and this position is supported by a number of innovations brought in the market in the recent past. Business information is supposed to remain confidential. Whatever the Government decides to do, it should be carried out in a civilised manner, not to treat Kenyans as if they are all lazy people only sending hate messages. More importantly, the service provider organizations should not be seen here to be used as state machines to frustrate their customers. Let's encourage public awareness campaign, people would rather stop bad habits because they have realized it is not good for the nation and mankind but not out of fear and oppression. I trust all these have been expressed respectfully and in relevance to the ongoing debates. Equally, we are all interested in working towards a better Kenya. Best regards, Akich Kwach -----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+kwach=archway-productions.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kwach=archway-productions.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of bitange@jambo.co.ke Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 6:54 PM To: kwach@archway-productions.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Is Big Brother watching us? Mr. Njoka, You do not have any right at all sending hate messages. This will land you in jail. Check the penal code. Yes the Government will prosecute those who violete rights of other people. Government applies the laws made by our representatives and if you do not like them, you lobby your mps to change them. This debate has pt no real meaning in this forum unless you specific proposals that would help create an ideal society.. Bitange Ndemo Sent from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: "Miano Njoka" <mianonjoka@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:03:21 To:bitange@jambo.co.ke Cc:KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Is Big Brother watching us? A while back, the government announced that it would prosecute anyone sending hate messages via SMS. Safaricom's CEO mentioned in a post to this list that they were working on a filtering system to stop hate messages, pornography, etc. Are these actions right? Is Big Brother (in George Orwell's 1984) watching us? I guess valid arguments can be made both for and against the government invading its citizens privacy in the interest of national security, what I'd like to know is, are these actions legal? Are there laws in Kenya to protect the right to privacy? Are communication companies bound by law to protect their customers information? Are these laws, if any, enforced? Miano Njoka. -------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by <http://www.mail.jambo.co.ke/> Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world" _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: kwach@archway-productions.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kwach%40archway-product ions.com
mmmhhh, Assuming that the eLegislation does exist (not just an ammendmend to some existing manual legislation whose context may have been totally different) i still believe that it would take a genius prosecutor to win such a case (as SMS hate-messaging). Am not a lawyer but I do know that to sustain charges and prove a case, it takes more than just legislation. There's the little bit of: 1) gathering and preserving the (electronic) evidence 2) proving beyond reasonable doubt that it did originate from me and has not been tampered with or somebody used my phone?. 3) getting an e-Compliant judge or magistrate (how many do we have?) as well as Prosecutors. 4) Accepting digital evidence in courts (remember the police spokesman claim that some recent footage on the riots were merely computer generated?); Yes, apparently electronic evidence is now admissible in Kenyan courts but how many are in the know? In short, I believe we are still a long way towards instituting and practicing eLegislation. And that cuts both ways i.e. there's a chance that you could send hate messages and win the case but there's also the chance that Big Brother can watch us and also get away with it using those very same institutional incapacities... walu. --- bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Mr. Njoka, You do not have any right at all sending hate messages. This will land you in jail. Check the penal code.
Yes the Government will prosecute those who violete rights of other people. Government applies the laws made by our representatives and if you do not like them, you lobby your mps to change them. This debate has pt no real meaning in this forum unless you specific proposals that would help create an ideal society..
Bitange Ndemo
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: "Miano Njoka" <mianonjoka@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:03:21 To:bitange@jambo.co.ke Cc:KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Is Big Brother watching us?
A while back, the government announced that it would prosecute anyone sending hate messages via SMS. Safaricom's CEO mentioned in a post to this list that they were working on a filtering system to stop hate messages, pornography, etc.
Are these actions right? Is Big Brother (in George Orwell's 1984) watching us? I guess valid arguments can be made both for and against the government invading its citizens privacy in the interest of national security, what I'd like to know is, are these actions legal? Are there laws in Kenya to protect the right to privacy? Are communication companies bound by law to protect their customers information? Are these laws, if any, enforced?
Miano Njoka.
-------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by <http://www.mail.jambo.co.ke/> Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world" _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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Walu, Well Said. You Know it. I know it. But does the common mwananchi know it? So when the government says that you can be prosecuted for such SMSs they suddenly stop. Which is good in some way. Ignorance can be used for good sometimes. Regards, ***************************************** Bernard Mwenda, Network Management Centre (NMC) Manager, Afsat Communications (Africa) Ltd, Tel:+254 20 608621 : Fax:+254 20 602826 Cell:+254 722 521155 (Safaricom) Cell:+254 736 696907 (Celtel) E-mail:bmwenda@iwayafrica.com www.iwayafrica.com ________________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+bmwenda=iwayafrica.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [kictanet-bounces+bmwenda=iwayafrica.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of John Walubengo [jwalu@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 3:46 PM To: Bernard Mwenda Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Is Big Brother watching us? mmmhhh, Assuming that the eLegislation does exist (not just an ammendmend to some existing manual legislation whose context may have been totally different) i still believe that it would take a genius prosecutor to win such a case (as SMS hate-messaging). Am not a lawyer but I do know that to sustain charges and prove a case, it takes more than just legislation. There's the little bit of: 1) gathering and preserving the (electronic) evidence 2) proving beyond reasonable doubt that it did originate from me and has not been tampered with or somebody used my phone?. 3) getting an e-Compliant judge or magistrate (how many do we have?) as well as Prosecutors. 4) Accepting digital evidence in courts (remember the police spokesman claim that some recent footage on the riots were merely computer generated?); Yes, apparently electronic evidence is now admissible in Kenyan courts but how many are in the know? In short, I believe we are still a long way towards instituting and practicing eLegislation. And that cuts both ways i.e. there's a chance that you could send hate messages and win the case but there's also the chance that Big Brother can watch us and also get away with it using those very same institutional incapacities... walu. --- bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Mr. Njoka, You do not have any right at all sending hate messages. This will land you in jail. Check the penal code.
Yes the Government will prosecute those who violete rights of other people. Government applies the laws made by our representatives and if you do not like them, you lobby your mps to change them. This debate has pt no real meaning in this forum unless you specific proposals that would help create an ideal society..
Bitange Ndemo
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: "Miano Njoka" <mianonjoka@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:03:21 To:bitange@jambo.co.ke Cc:KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Is Big Brother watching us?
A while back, the government announced that it would prosecute anyone sending hate messages via SMS. Safaricom's CEO mentioned in a post to this list that they were working on a filtering system to stop hate messages, pornography, etc.
Are these actions right? Is Big Brother (in George Orwell's 1984) watching us? I guess valid arguments can be made both for and against the government invading its citizens privacy in the interest of national security, what I'd like to know is, are these actions legal? Are there laws in Kenya to protect the right to privacy? Are communication companies bound by law to protect their customers information? Are these laws, if any, enforced?
Miano Njoka.
-------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by <http://www.mail.jambo.co.ke/> Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world" _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: bmwenda@iwayafrica.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bmwenda%40iwayafrica.co...
Am informed that a local radio station has partnered with a local data network operator and is watching traffic flows accross nairobi in real-time, streaming video... Very innovative stuff i should say. But then, someone else would ask - who allowed this people to watch us as we come out of our gates and hit the streets? There always seems to be at least two sides of anything... walu. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Well, I guess we could argue that whatever you can see with your bare eyes is what is seen by the cameras. We have not implemented recording, do not identify persons or license plates and are NOT pointing the cameras to any private gates! Rgds Kai -----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of John Walubengo Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 08:32 To: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] And now 'Butterfly' is watching us? Am informed that a local radio station has partnered with a local data network operator and is watching traffic flows accross nairobi in real-time, streaming video... Very innovative stuff i should say. But then, someone else would ask - who allowed this people to watch us as we come out of our gates and hit the streets? There always seems to be at least two sides of anything... walu. ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kai.wulff%40kdn.co.ke -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Kai, Is this video stream accesible to the public or just to this radio station? There could be implications here. Regards, ***************************************** Bernard Mwenda, Network Management Centre (NMC) Manager, Afsat Communications (Africa) Ltd, Tel:+254 20 608621 : Fax:+254 20 602826 Cell:+254 722 521155 (Safaricom) Cell:+254 736 696907 (Celtel) E-mail:bmwenda@iwayafrica.com www.iwayafrica.com ________________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+bmwenda=iwayafrica.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [kictanet-bounces+bmwenda=iwayafrica.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Kai U. Wulff [kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 9:35 AM To: Bernard Mwenda Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] And now 'Butterfly' is watching us? Well, I guess we could argue that whatever you can see with your bare eyes is what is seen by the cameras. We have not implemented recording, do not identify persons or license plates and are NOT pointing the cameras to any private gates! Rgds Kai -----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of John Walubengo Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 08:32 To: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] And now 'Butterfly' is watching us? Am informed that a local radio station has partnered with a local data network operator and is watching traffic flows accross nairobi in real-time, streaming video... Very innovative stuff i should say. But then, someone else would ask - who allowed this people to watch us as we come out of our gates and hit the streets? There always seems to be at least two sides of anything... walu. ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kai.wulff%40kdn.co.ke -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: bmwenda@iwayafrica.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bmwenda%40iwayafrica.co...
"'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy" by Daniel J. Solove http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565 [ssrn.com] On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 07:49 +0300, Bernard Mwenda wrote:
Walu,
Well Said. You Know it. I know it. But does the common mwananchi know it? So when the government says that you can be prosecuted for such SMSs they suddenly stop. Which is good in some way.
Ignorance can be used for good sometimes.
Regards, ***************************************** Bernard Mwenda, Network Management Centre (NMC) Manager, Afsat Communications (Africa) Ltd, Tel:+254 20 608621 : Fax:+254 20 602826 Cell:+254 722 521155 (Safaricom) Cell:+254 736 696907 (Celtel) E-mail:bmwenda@iwayafrica.com www.iwayafrica.com ________________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+bmwenda=iwayafrica.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [kictanet-bounces+bmwenda=iwayafrica.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of John Walubengo [jwalu@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 3:46 PM To: Bernard Mwenda Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Is Big Brother watching us?
mmmhhh,
Assuming that the eLegislation does exist (not just an ammendmend to some existing manual legislation whose context may have been totally different) i still believe that it would take a genius prosecutor to win such a case (as SMS hate-messaging).
Am not a lawyer but I do know that to sustain charges and prove a case, it takes more than just legislation. There's the little bit of:
1) gathering and preserving the (electronic) evidence 2) proving beyond reasonable doubt that it did originate from me and has not been tampered with or somebody used my phone?. 3) getting an e-Compliant judge or magistrate (how many do we have?) as well as Prosecutors. 4) Accepting digital evidence in courts (remember the police spokesman claim that some recent footage on the riots were merely computer generated?); Yes, apparently electronic evidence is now admissible in Kenyan courts but how many are in the know?
In short, I believe we are still a long way towards instituting and practicing eLegislation. And that cuts both ways i.e. there's a chance that you could send hate messages and win the case but there's also the chance that Big Brother can watch us and also get away with it using those very same institutional incapacities...
walu.
--- bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Mr. Njoka, You do not have any right at all sending hate messages. This will land you in jail. Check the penal code.
Yes the Government will prosecute those who violete rights of other people. Government applies the laws made by our representatives and if you do not like them, you lobby your mps to change them. This debate has pt no real meaning in this forum unless you specific proposals that would help create an ideal society..
Bitange Ndemo
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: "Miano Njoka" <mianonjoka@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:03:21 To:bitange@jambo.co.ke Cc:KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Is Big Brother watching us?
A while back, the government announced that it would prosecute anyone sending hate messages via SMS. Safaricom's CEO mentioned in a post to this list that they were working on a filtering system to stop hate messages, pornography, etc.
Are these actions right? Is Big Brother (in George Orwell's 1984) watching us? I guess valid arguments can be made both for and against the government invading its citizens privacy in the interest of national security, what I'd like to know is, are these actions legal? Are there laws in Kenya to protect the right to privacy? Are communication companies bound by law to protect their customers information? Are these laws, if any, enforced?
Miano Njoka.
-------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by <http://www.mail.jambo.co.ke/> Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world" _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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participants (6)
-
Bernard Mwenda -
bitange＠jambo.co.ke -
John Walubengo -
Kai U. Wulff -
Kwach -
Miano Njoka