Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority Proposal to act on Quacks proper and within Legal Mandate
Kamotho For arguments. Say what you are saying is in order why then are you sponsoring an ICT Practitioners' Bill? Are you then not abrogating the role of ICTA? *Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Road, Westlands, Nairobi, Kenya. Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with. On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Kamotho Njenga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Fellow Listers,
The proposal by the ICT Authority to rein on quacks is actually overdue if ICTA's legal mandate is anything to go by. On the basis of Legal Notice 183 of 2013 and Legal Notice 198 of 2013, the functions of ICTA are as set out below: I have listed all and boldly highlighted the ones that are most significant in light of the current conversation.
(a) *set and enforce ICT standards & guidelines for human resource, infrastructure, processes, systems and technology for the public office and public service* and;
(b) deploy and manage all ICT staff in the public service;
(c) *facilitate and regulate the design, implementation and use of ICTs in the public service;*
(d) promote ICT literacy and capacity;
(e) promote e-Government services;
(f) facilitate optimal electronic, electronic form, electronic record and equipment use in the public service; promote ICT innovation and enterprise;
(h) *establish, develop and maintain secure ICT infrastructure and systems*
(i) *supervise the design, development and implementation of critical ICT Projects across the public service.*
(j) implement and manage the Kenya National Spatial Data Initiative
As long as the ICT Authority operates within its lawful mandate and adopts a consultative approach, we owe them some measure of support rather than castigation.
Kamotho
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Ali, Its always fine to push our arguments and convictions with passion, but let's be careful not to run into the tide of emotions. I have simply stated the legal position which in this instance clearly favours the action path proposed by ICTA. Since you have mentioned the ICT Practitioners Bill and christened me with the "sponsor" title, I will attempt to briefly set the record straight: 1. The moment the Bill was published, it became a public document; (no longer "Kamothos"/whoever's) Bill 2. Stakeholders held several sessions that deliberated on the Bill and as a representative of KICTANET you individually participated under the banner of KEPSA 3. Various stakeholders (MOICT, ICTAK, KEPSA, CA among others) had an opportunity to ventilate their views either in support or disapproval of the various clauses contained in the Bill in a very cordial and respectful manner. 4. At the final meeting held with the Parliamentary Committee on Energy and ICT, stakeholders reviewed the Bill on a clause by clause basis whereby we unanimously agreed to drop all the clauses deemed to be controversial by any of the stakeholders. 5. In the end, only about 40% of the content of the earlier version was retained in the final version 6. Stakeholders agreed to cede the final verdict on the revised version of the Bill to the Parliamentary Committee. 7. In light of the vast amendments proposed by stakeholders, (More than 50%) of the original version, the Committee has various options including recommending the redrafting of the Bill or to have the Bill withdrawn altogether. The whole House will then proceed to make the final resolution 8. The decision arrived at by Parliament in its wisdom is what we will abide by, since this is what constitutional democracy is about. Kamotho On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 5:16 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Kamotho
For arguments. Say what you are saying is in order why then are you sponsoring an ICT Practitioners' Bill? Are you then not abrogating the role of ICTA?
*Ali Hussein*
*Principal*
*Hussein & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
Chiromo Road, Westlands,
Nairobi, Kenya.
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Kamotho Njenga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Fellow Listers,
The proposal by the ICT Authority to rein on quacks is actually overdue if ICTA's legal mandate is anything to go by. On the basis of Legal Notice 183 of 2013 and Legal Notice 198 of 2013, the functions of ICTA are as set out below: I have listed all and boldly highlighted the ones that are most significant in light of the current conversation.
(a) *set and enforce ICT standards & guidelines for human resource, infrastructure, processes, systems and technology for the public office and public service* and;
(b) deploy and manage all ICT staff in the public service;
(c) *facilitate and regulate the design, implementation and use of ICTs in the public service;*
(d) promote ICT literacy and capacity;
(e) promote e-Government services;
(f) facilitate optimal electronic, electronic form, electronic record and equipment use in the public service; promote ICT innovation and enterprise;
(h) *establish, develop and maintain secure ICT infrastructure and systems*
(i) *supervise the design, development and implementation of critical ICT Projects across the public service.*
(j) implement and manage the Kenya National Spatial Data Initiative
As long as the ICT Authority operates within its lawful mandate and adopts a consultative approach, we owe them some measure of support rather than castigation.
Kamotho
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Kamotho Let me reiterate one thing. We may have gone through all the loops to make changes to the bill but it doesn't change the reality. The reality is this:- 1. This bill is simply a bad idea and we resorted to horse trading because it was the only avenue available. 2. There is no guarantee that the Parliamentary Committee will implement our requested changes. Our major concern is that if no changes are made we will have been seen to have been 'consulted' and the bill deemed to have passed the Multi-Stakeholder test. We will be loath to accept that. Bottom line my brother is that this Bill will die. Whether in parliament or at the stake of implementation. It just simply isn't feasible. Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad
On 2 Dec 2016, at 6:15 PM, Kamotho Njenga <kamothonjenga@gmail.com> wrote:
Ali,
Its always fine to push our arguments and convictions with passion, but let's be careful not to run into the tide of emotions. I have simply stated the legal position which in this instance clearly favours the action path proposed by ICTA.
Since you have mentioned the ICT Practitioners Bill and christened me with the "sponsor" title, I will attempt to briefly set the record straight:
1. The moment the Bill was published, it became a public document; (no longer "Kamothos"/whoever's) Bill
2. Stakeholders held several sessions that deliberated on the Bill and as a representative of KICTANET you individually participated under the banner of KEPSA
3. Various stakeholders (MOICT, ICTAK, KEPSA, CA among others) had an opportunity to ventilate their views either in support or disapproval of the various clauses contained in the Bill in a very cordial and respectful manner.
4. At the final meeting held with the Parliamentary Committee on Energy and ICT, stakeholders reviewed the Bill on a clause by clause basis whereby we unanimously agreed to drop all the clauses deemed to be controversial by any of the stakeholders.
5. In the end, only about 40% of the content of the earlier version was retained in the final version
6. Stakeholders agreed to cede the final verdict on the revised version of the Bill to the Parliamentary Committee.
7. In light of the vast amendments proposed by stakeholders, (More than 50%) of the original version, the Committee has various options including recommending the redrafting of the Bill or to have the Bill withdrawn altogether. The whole House will then proceed to make the final resolution
8. The decision arrived at by Parliament in its wisdom is what we will abide by, since this is what constitutional democracy is about.
Kamotho
On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 5:16 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Kamotho
For arguments. Say what you are saying is in order why then are you sponsoring an ICT Practitioners' Bill? Are you then not abrogating the role of ICTA?
Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates
Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Road, Westlands, Nairobi, Kenya.
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Kamotho Njenga via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Fellow Listers,
The proposal by the ICT Authority to rein on quacks is actually overdue if ICTA's legal mandate is anything to go by. On the basis of Legal Notice 183 of 2013 and Legal Notice 198 of 2013, the functions of ICTA are as set out below: I have listed all and boldly highlighted the ones that are most significant in light of the current conversation.
(a) set and enforce ICT standards & guidelines for human resource, infrastructure, processes, systems and technology for the public office and public service and;
(b) deploy and manage all ICT staff in the public service;
(c) facilitate and regulate the design, implementation and use of ICTs in the public service;
(d) promote ICT literacy and capacity;
(e) promote e-Government services;
(f) facilitate optimal electronic, electronic form, electronic record and equipment use in the public service; promote ICT innovation and enterprise;
(h) establish, develop and maintain secure ICT infrastructure and systems
(i) supervise the design, development and implementation of critical ICT Projects across the public service.
(j) implement and manage the Kenya National Spatial Data Initiative
As long as the ICT Authority operates within its lawful mandate and adopts a consultative approach, we owe them some measure of support rather than castigation.
Kamotho
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Ali, +1 with everything you have said – you left out another way though – it may also die through an expensive court challenge that will simply waste everyone’s money. I’d love to hear legal opinion on if it would pass constitutional muster to deny people who have worked their whole lives in a profession the ability to continue to do so. Andrew From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein via kictanet Sent: 03 December 2016 06:47 To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> Cc: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority Proposal to act on Quacks proper and within Legal Mandate Kamotho Let me reiterate one thing. We may have gone through all the loops to make changes to the bill but it doesn't change the reality. The reality is this:- 1. This bill is simply a bad idea and we resorted to horse trading because it was the only avenue available. 2. There is no guarantee that the Parliamentary Committee will implement our requested changes. Our major concern is that if no changes are made we will have been seen to have been 'consulted' and the bill deemed to have passed the Multi-Stakeholder test. We will be loath to accept that. Bottom line my brother is that this Bill will die. Whether in parliament or at the stake of implementation. It just simply isn't feasible. Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad On 2 Dec 2016, at 6:15 PM, Kamotho Njenga <kamothonjenga@gmail.com<mailto:kamothonjenga@gmail.com>> wrote: Ali, Its always fine to push our arguments and convictions with passion, but let's be careful not to run into the tide of emotions. I have simply stated the legal position which in this instance clearly favours the action path proposed by ICTA. Since you have mentioned the ICT Practitioners Bill and christened me with the "sponsor" title, I will attempt to briefly set the record straight: 1. The moment the Bill was published, it became a public document; (no longer "Kamothos"/whoever's) Bill 2. Stakeholders held several sessions that deliberated on the Bill and as a representative of KICTANET you individually participated under the banner of KEPSA 3. Various stakeholders (MOICT, ICTAK, KEPSA, CA among others) had an opportunity to ventilate their views either in support or disapproval of the various clauses contained in the Bill in a very cordial and respectful manner. 4. At the final meeting held with the Parliamentary Committee on Energy and ICT, stakeholders reviewed the Bill on a clause by clause basis whereby we unanimously agreed to drop all the clauses deemed to be controversial by any of the stakeholders. 5. In the end, only about 40% of the content of the earlier version was retained in the final version 6. Stakeholders agreed to cede the final verdict on the revised version of the Bill to the Parliamentary Committee. 7. In light of the vast amendments proposed by stakeholders, (More than 50%) of the original version, the Committee has various options including recommending the redrafting of the Bill or to have the Bill withdrawn altogether. The whole House will then proceed to make the final resolution 8. The decision arrived at by Parliament in its wisdom is what we will abide by, since this is what constitutional democracy is about. Kamotho On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 5:16 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke<mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke>> wrote: Kamotho For arguments. Say what you are saying is in order why then are you sponsoring an ICT Practitioners' Bill? Are you then not abrogating the role of ICTA? Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Road, Westlands, Nairobi, Kenya. Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with. On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Kamotho Njenga via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Fellow Listers, The proposal by the ICT Authority to rein on quacks is actually overdue if ICTA's legal mandate is anything to go by. On the basis of Legal Notice 183 of 2013 and Legal Notice 198 of 2013, the functions of ICTA are as set out below: I have listed all and boldly highlighted the ones that are most significant in light of the current conversation. (a) set and enforce ICT standards & guidelines for human resource, infrastructure, processes, systems and technology for the public office and public service and; (b) deploy and manage all ICT staff in the public service; (c) facilitate and regulate the design, implementation and use of ICTs in the public service; (d) promote ICT literacy and capacity; (e) promote e-Government services; (f) facilitate optimal electronic, electronic form, electronic record and equipment use in the public service; promote ICT innovation and enterprise; (h) establish, develop and maintain secure ICT infrastructure and systems (i) supervise the design, development and implementation of critical ICT Projects across the public service. (j) implement and manage the Kenya National Spatial Data Initiative As long as the ICT Authority operates within its lawful mandate and adopts a consultative approach, we owe them some measure of support rather than castigation. Kamotho _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email has been scanned for email related threats and delivered safely by Mimecast. For more information please visit http://www.mimecast.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Indeed. We call that the Nuclear Option. We hope people will come to their senses and see the futility of this exercise. Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad
On 3 Dec 2016, at 10:30 AM, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
Ali,
+1 with everything you have said – you left out another way though – it may also die through an expensive court challenge that will simply waste everyone’s money.
I’d love to hear legal opinion on if it would pass constitutional muster to deny people who have worked their whole lives in a profession the ability to continue to do so.
Andrew
From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Ali Hussein via kictanet Sent: 03 December 2016 06:47 To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> Cc: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority Proposal to act on Quacks proper and within Legal Mandate
Kamotho
Let me reiterate one thing. We may have gone through all the loops to make changes to the bill but it doesn't change the reality. The reality is this:-
1. This bill is simply a bad idea and we resorted to horse trading because it was the only avenue available.
2. There is no guarantee that the Parliamentary Committee will implement our requested changes. Our major concern is that if no changes are made we will have been seen to have been 'consulted' and the bill deemed to have passed the Multi-Stakeholder test. We will be loath to accept that.
Bottom line my brother is that this Bill will die. Whether in parliament or at the stake of implementation. It just simply isn't feasible.
Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 2 Dec 2016, at 6:15 PM, Kamotho Njenga <kamothonjenga@gmail.com> wrote:
Ali,
Its always fine to push our arguments and convictions with passion, but let's be careful not to run into the tide of emotions. I have simply stated the legal position which in this instance clearly favours the action path proposed by ICTA.
Since you have mentioned the ICT Practitioners Bill and christened me with the "sponsor" title, I will attempt to briefly set the record straight:
1. The moment the Bill was published, it became a public document; (no longer "Kamothos"/whoever's) Bill
2. Stakeholders held several sessions that deliberated on the Bill and as a representative of KICTANET you individually participated under the banner of KEPSA
3. Various stakeholders (MOICT, ICTAK, KEPSA, CA among others) had an opportunity to ventilate their views either in support or disapproval of the various clauses contained in the Bill in a very cordial and respectful manner.
4. At the final meeting held with the Parliamentary Committee on Energy and ICT, stakeholders reviewed the Bill on a clause by clause basis whereby we unanimously agreed to drop all the clauses deemed to be controversial by any of the stakeholders.
5. In the end, only about 40% of the content of the earlier version was retained in the final version
6. Stakeholders agreed to cede the final verdict on the revised version of the Bill to the Parliamentary Committee.
7. In light of the vast amendments proposed by stakeholders, (More than 50%) of the original version, the Committee has various options including recommending the redrafting of the Bill or to have the Bill withdrawn altogether. The whole House will then proceed to make the final resolution
8. The decision arrived at by Parliament in its wisdom is what we will abide by, since this is what constitutional democracy is about.
Kamotho
On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 5:16 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Kamotho
For arguments. Say what you are saying is in order why then are you sponsoring an ICT Practitioners' Bill? Are you then not abrogating the role of ICTA?
Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates
Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Road, Westlands, Nairobi, Kenya.
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Kamotho Njenga via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Fellow Listers,
The proposal by the ICT Authority to rein on quacks is actually overdue if ICTA's legal mandate is anything to go by. On the basis of Legal Notice 183 of 2013 and Legal Notice 198 of 2013, the functions of ICTA are as set out below: I have listed all and boldly highlighted the ones that are most significant in light of the current conversation.
(a) set and enforce ICT standards & guidelines for human resource, infrastructure, processes, systems and technology for the public office and public service and;
(b) deploy and manage all ICT staff in the public service;
(c) facilitate and regulate the design, implementation and use of ICTs in the public service;
(d) promote ICT literacy and capacity;
(e) promote e-Government services;
(f) facilitate optimal electronic, electronic form, electronic record and equipment use in the public service; promote ICT innovation and enterprise;
(h) establish, develop and maintain secure ICT infrastructure and systems
(i) supervise the design, development and implementation of critical ICT Projects across the public service.
(j) implement and manage the Kenya National Spatial Data Initiative
As long as the ICT Authority operates within its lawful mandate and adopts a consultative approach, we owe them some measure of support rather than castigation.
Kamotho
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
This email has been scanned for email related threats and delivered safely by Mimecast. For more information please visit http://www.mimecast.com
participants (3)
-
Ali Hussein -
Andrew Alston -
Kamotho Njenga