Kai, Congratulations on leading the way.... Ducting needs to be seen as part of the infrastructure for development like roads, gutters etc. I explain this a bit more in my response to the other Eric. Building and or maintenance of ducts can be outsourced to the private sector, the situation of 5 operators fight for the best seat does not arrive when you have the third party maintenance entity who is rewarded for ensuring the ducts are useful. Eric here
Eric,
Actually we had fiber first ..
But it is not that easy .. The question with a duct is: Who is doing the maintenance?
If a duct gets cut, I would not want a scenario that has 5 operators on site fighting for the best "seat" in the house to restore!
Rgds
Kai
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] Im Auftrag von emko@internetresearch.com.gh Gesendet: Sunday, November 08, 2009 17:13 An: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Betreff: Re: [kictanet] Cable issues
Mahmoud,
While i agree with your simple but to be taken serious submission, i beg to differ on the substance and form of the underlining principle.
It is the reponsibility of regulatory policy to ensure that infrastructure is shared and a common conduit is built so that different providers can blow their fiber, this is not a market failure situation but an argument for direct public policy intervention to ensure a certain market situation. In the absence of this, the same government through the various institutions collect all kinds of levies from the private companies knowing very well that they are building next to each other.
It is important for us to ensure not only institutional saparation but stakeholder responbilities and outcomes in these discussions. The government and regulator must do their work in ensuring that when KDN wants to build fiber from Nairobi to Mombasa, they are told, telkom already has the ducts in place so go talk to them, pay a fee and blow your fiber. Blaming KDN for getting the license and building out next to Telkom, exonerate unnecessarily the responsibility of those institutionalised to do so and belittles the effort to institutionalise.
Thailand just passed a law to make broadband a right, this would create the framework for private sector to ensure it happens or government would intervene to make it happen or they would be breaking the law they made.
Eric here
Providers need to share infrastructure,it beats logic to see different providers digging next to each other on same side of the road,this also inconveniences road users regularly especilly in urban areas. A first timer in a route should have extra conduits that can be used by competitors in future,once we share the suspicion of competition sabotaging will reduce. We also need to educate the public on the importance of the cable network to our country,economy and make a connection to how a cable cut impacts on their lives,ultimately the communities are the best custodians in their areas,we should also encourage contractors to use locals in each of the areas the cable is enroute and let them instill a sense of ownership to this communities. If government could perform well,local authorities and the state could be building and owning fibre routes or just the conduits and lease to all interested providers. With the fibre cuts each day we are reducing the kenya s potential of being the preffered gateway to landlocked countries like Uganda,Rwanda,S.Sudan etc,hence reducing our dominance in the region and in the process loosing economic/employment opportunities,
Concerned,frustrated
Mahmoud Noor Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 09:20:02 To: noor<mahmoods21@gmail.com> Subject: kictanet Digest, Vol 30, Issue 14
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Cable issues (kai wulff) 2. Re: Cable issues (kai wulff) 3. CISSP Review Course + Examination ( Nairobi Kenya) (Preston Odera) 4. Ignite Experience Center and Lifestyle Brochure (Njeri Rionge)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 22:14:08 +0300 From: "kai wulff" <kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke> To: <jairah@kippra.or.ke> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Cable issues Message-ID: <484401ca5f15$ab0cdfa0$01269ee0$@wulff@kdn.co.ke> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
It would help if we could get our day in court. Vandalism is one thing, negligence another. We as Operators spend huge amounts on staff we attach to contractors to make sure they don't destroy our cable plant .. If they do, we never get compensated. Taking them to court takes years and you might only get awarded the cost of the cable plus the labor ..
Frustrated
Kai
-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] Im Auftrag von jairah@kippra.or.ke Gesendet: Friday, November 06, 2009 20:40 An: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Betreff: Re: [kictanet] Cable issues
Colleagues
What I would suggest is to have a law to protect critical infrastructure from vagabonds such as those that destroy cables and other infrastructure that we need to sustain the enabling environment for doing business. The penalties this guys receive are a joke and the law needs to target the entire value chain, at least on the Kenyan perhaps East African side.
Kind regards
Eric Aligula Sent from my BlackBerry?
-----Original Message----- From: Jevans Nyabiage <jnyabiage@nation.co.ke> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 19:07:21 To: <jairah@kippra.or.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Cable issues
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------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 22:16:41 +0300 From: "kai wulff" <kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke> To: "'Jevans Nyabiage'" <jnyabiage@nation.co.ke> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Cable issues Message-ID: <484601ca5f15$ae77f710$0b67e530$@wulff@kdn.co.ke> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sabotage and Vandalism look very similar .. Unless we ask the people doing it we would not know the motives.
The fault on Monday was caused by contractors of another operator who was not following procedures and who thought that by virtue of working for a partly state owned company he will be allowed to do what he wants (happens very often, treatment of Operators is still not equal).
Today was clearly a fault caused by someone who ON PURPOSE cut the cable.
Did the person want to steal a cable and stopped when seeing it was not metal or was he there to sabotage the network - I would not know.
Kai
Von: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] Im Auftrag von Jevans Nyabiage Gesendet: Friday, November 06, 2009 19:07 An: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Betreff: [kictanet] Cable issues
In the last few weeks there has been an outcry over increasing in disruption of networks with some of the affected firms pointing to industrial sabotage.
Safaricom was the first this week to claim "acts of sabotage" on the disruption of its network. The Orange the next day arrested some cable vandals and attributed it to suspected sabotage.
This Friday (today) Seacom fibre cable went offline for about four hours, they said this was due to cuts on KDN fibre around Voi.
Is this 'sabotage' real or imagined?
Jevans
DISCLAIMER: The information contained in or accompanying this e-mail is intended for the use of the stated recipient only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient.
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Eric, My business depends on those cables (in the duct). It is for me the CORE. So who would I trust with outsourcing .. And, if the duct gets cut (and it will, 10, 20, 50 .. or more times a week), which cable will be restored by whom ... Where will a manhole be set? How will we fit all the Joint Boxes .. I think I should do a workshop and explain it from a practical point of view .. Forget that I work for one company! Kai -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: emko@internetresearch.com.gh [mailto:emko@internetresearch.com.gh] Gesendet: Sunday, November 08, 2009 18:14 An: kai wulff Cc: emko@internetresearch.com.gh; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Betreff: Re: AW: [kictanet] Cable issues Kai, Congratulations on leading the way.... Ducting needs to be seen as part of the infrastructure for development like roads, gutters etc. I explain this a bit more in my response to the other Eric. Building and or maintenance of ducts can be outsourced to the private sector, the situation of 5 operators fight for the best seat does not arrive when you have the third party maintenance entity who is rewarded for ensuring the ducts are useful. Eric here
Eric,
Actually we had fiber first ..
But it is not that easy .. The question with a duct is: Who is doing the maintenance?
If a duct gets cut, I would not want a scenario that has 5 operators on site fighting for the best "seat" in the house to restore!
Rgds
Kai
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] Im Auftrag von emko@internetresearch.com.gh Gesendet: Sunday, November 08, 2009 17:13 An: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Betreff: Re: [kictanet] Cable issues
Mahmoud,
While i agree with your simple but to be taken serious submission, i beg to differ on the substance and form of the underlining principle.
It is the reponsibility of regulatory policy to ensure that infrastructure is shared and a common conduit is built so that different providers can blow their fiber, this is not a market failure situation but an argument for direct public policy intervention to ensure a certain market situation. In the absence of this, the same government through the various institutions collect all kinds of levies from the private companies knowing very well that they are building next to each other.
It is important for us to ensure not only institutional saparation but stakeholder responbilities and outcomes in these discussions. The government and regulator must do their work in ensuring that when KDN wants to build fiber from Nairobi to Mombasa, they are told, telkom already has the ducts in place so go talk to them, pay a fee and blow your fiber. Blaming KDN for getting the license and building out next to Telkom, exonerate unnecessarily the responsibility of those institutionalised to do so and belittles the effort to institutionalise.
Thailand just passed a law to make broadband a right, this would create the framework for private sector to ensure it happens or government would intervene to make it happen or they would be breaking the law they made.
Eric here
Providers need to share infrastructure,it beats logic to see different providers digging next to each other on same side of the road,this also inconveniences road users regularly especilly in urban areas. A first timer in a route should have extra conduits that can be used by competitors in future,once we share the suspicion of competition sabotaging will reduce. We also need to educate the public on the importance of the cable network to our country,economy and make a connection to how a cable cut impacts on their lives,ultimately the communities are the best custodians in their areas,we should also encourage contractors to use locals in each of the areas the cable is enroute and let them instill a sense of ownership to this communities. If government could perform well,local authorities and the state could be building and owning fibre routes or just the conduits and lease to all interested providers. With the fibre cuts each day we are reducing the kenya s potential of being the preffered gateway to landlocked countries like Uganda,Rwanda,S.Sudan etc,hence reducing our dominance in the region and in the process loosing economic/employment opportunities,
Concerned,frustrated
Mahmoud Noor Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 09:20:02 To: noor<mahmoods21@gmail.com> Subject: kictanet Digest, Vol 30, Issue 14
Send kictanet mailing list submissions to kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke
You can reach the person managing the list at kictanet-owner@lists.kictanet.or.ke
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Cable issues (kai wulff) 2. Re: Cable issues (kai wulff) 3. CISSP Review Course + Examination ( Nairobi Kenya) (Preston Odera) 4. Ignite Experience Center and Lifestyle Brochure (Njeri Rionge)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 22:14:08 +0300 From: "kai wulff" <kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke> To: <jairah@kippra.or.ke> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Cable issues Message-ID: <484401ca5f15$ab0cdfa0$01269ee0$@wulff@kdn.co.ke> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
It would help if we could get our day in court. Vandalism is one thing, negligence another. We as Operators spend huge amounts on staff we attach to contractors to make sure they don't destroy our cable plant .. If they do, we never get compensated. Taking them to court takes years and you might only get awarded the cost of the cable plus the labor ..
Frustrated
Kai
-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] Im Auftrag von jairah@kippra.or.ke Gesendet: Friday, November 06, 2009 20:40 An: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Betreff: Re: [kictanet] Cable issues
Colleagues
What I would suggest is to have a law to protect critical infrastructure from vagabonds such as those that destroy cables and other infrastructure that we need to sustain the enabling environment for doing business. The penalties this guys receive are a joke and the law needs to target the entire value chain, at least on the Kenyan perhaps East African side.
Kind regards
Eric Aligula Sent from my BlackBerry?
-----Original Message----- From: Jevans Nyabiage <jnyabiage@nation.co.ke> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 19:07:21 To: <jairah@kippra.or.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Cable issues
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------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 22:16:41 +0300 From: "kai wulff" <kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke> To: "'Jevans Nyabiage'" <jnyabiage@nation.co.ke> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Cable issues Message-ID: <484601ca5f15$ae77f710$0b67e530$@wulff@kdn.co.ke> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sabotage and Vandalism look very similar .. Unless we ask the people doing it we would not know the motives.
The fault on Monday was caused by contractors of another operator who was not following procedures and who thought that by virtue of working for a partly state owned company he will be allowed to do what he wants (happens very often, treatment of Operators is still not equal).
Today was clearly a fault caused by someone who ON PURPOSE cut the cable.
Did the person want to steal a cable and stopped when seeing it was not metal or was he there to sabotage the network - I would not know.
Kai
Von: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] Im Auftrag von Jevans Nyabiage Gesendet: Friday, November 06, 2009 19:07 An: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Betreff: [kictanet] Cable issues
In the last few weeks there has been an outcry over increasing in disruption of networks with some of the affected firms pointing to industrial sabotage.
Safaricom was the first this week to claim "acts of sabotage" on the disruption of its network. The Orange the next day arrested some cable vandals and attributed it to suspected sabotage.
This Friday (today) Seacom fibre cable went offline for about four hours, they said this was due to cuts on KDN fibre around Voi.
Is this 'sabotage' real or imagined?
Jevans
DISCLAIMER: The information contained in or accompanying this e-mail is intended for the use of the stated recipient only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient.
Any views or opinions presented herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the <http://www.nation.co.ke> Nation Media Group.
To get all breaking news alerts send the word BREAK to 6667 or visit http://mobile.nation.co.ke to read news on your mobile phone.
participants (2)
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emko＠internetresearch.com.gh -
kai wulff