Hi, First let me thank Walu for introducing the day 2 discussion so well. MM - Thank you for sharing the results of the study you were involved in. This is very useful. If you are kind enough to share a URL where we can find more. As we continue with this discussion, we need to make very specific recommendations. For example, it is clear that a data protection legislation is required. What else needs to be done? What about privacy law? I know there has been efforts to draw up a data protection legislation but I have no details. Does anyone have any information on this? Tim Waema On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 08:50 +0300, muriuki mureithi wrote:

Thanks Walu for the early morning call

Q4 - yes , one of the key markets we are targeting i.e. UK is a party to the European wide data protection arrangement. This arrangement has stringent requirements for cross border data exchange and particularly to members who are not party to that arrangement. Kenyan law on data protection as you rightly state is non-existent.

Certainly the fact the key players in the market prefer to operate their own contact centres apart from the daring example of Telkom Kenya is a damning reminder that we have to do a lot of work to convince ourselves first before we go out and convince others that we can handle their sensitive data. In a multi-country study we did for university of the Maryland; The bpo phenomena in Kenya: Emerging flagship to drive ICT development -A case study in 2007, the legal framework need to address a number of issues notably - data protection, indemnity for operators , bonding framework for staff - the police conduct certification is only good for matatus not high end confidential bpo work , incentive framework eg use of epza , fiscal etc

With the legal loop holes the study found that some Kenya bpo were forced to register an operation in the target market such that, that operation was contractually responsible for the projects being done in Kenya. This immense can be overcome by an improved legal framework.

Now is an opportunity we should not lose to build a supporting legal framework for bpo

Cheers MM

-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+mureithi=summitstrategies.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+mureithi=summitstrategies.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.k e] On Behalf Of Walubengo J Sent: 03 June 2009 08:05 To: mureithi@summitstrategies.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: [kictanet] Day 2 of 10:-BPO discussions,Legal and Regulatory Frameworks

Morning all,

Yesterday was like my 1st day in school - what a rich learning experience! Thanx to Waema, Nyaki, Barrack, Otuoma, and MM whose contributions were quite enlightening. Of the two questions asked, it appears that we need both comprehensive ICT and BPO Policies and Strategies. With regard to National BPO strategies and targets we learnt that there was quite some detail at the Ministry of Planning and the BPO Society which could benefit members if made widely accessible.

Today we move from the Policy to the Legal, Regulatory Frameworks. The Research study found very comprehensive Legal and Regulatory environment in S.Africa, India and Mauritius that supported their BPO industry. Specifically, laws that took care of eTransactions, eCrime, Copyrights and Data Protection were well established. Furthermore their BPO Industries had adopted stringent Quality Assurance Frameworks for BPO and Contact Center Operations.

The Researchers found that the case for Kenya was relatively comparable - with the recently enacted KCA Act (2009) that deals with eCrime & eTransactions leading the way, others like the Copyright Act (2001) as well as the Freedom of Information Bill cuurently at an advanced stage providing an encouraging Legal/Regulatory environment.

Which brings us to the following two questions:

Q3: With submarine cables landing next week and given the above legal/regulatory frameworks, how comes Kenya is NOT experiencing the anticipated boom in the BPO sector? What should we do to get local and foreign investors to show more confidence in the BPO industry?

Q4: Could there be gaps in our Legal, Regulatory and Institutional frameworks that need to be addresssed?

Put in black and white- Why hasn't Safaricom, Orange, Zain and several local Banks who have all opened their own very large Call-Centers NOT shown confidence in the BPO sector by outsourcing their operations to local BPO operators? What of the Government itself? Why cant it outsource non-core functions to the local BPO operators before trying attract foreign investors to do the same?

The floor is open, we have only today to get comments/answers to these issues.

walu.

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And I will reply to myself and add that is there something in our institutional framework that needs to be addressed or have we got it right? If we have then what are we doing wrong? Nyaki ________________________________ From: Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 2:39:11 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 2 of 10:-BPO discussions, Legal and Regulatory Frameworks Muriuki et. al., This is very useful information and kindly share the multi-country study you discuss below; I emphasize the importance of collating these studies with a common goal in mind . One important issue you raise (and this was confirmed by the BPO research team while in the UK) is literally based on 'Field of Dreams'....that is "...if you build it they will come". The confidence that we show in our local BPO sector will boost the confidence of the potential foreign investors. The reasons why some of the key players prefer to operate their own contact sectors vary and some are credible. And this takes me back to the question Walu has raised that with the submarine cables landing soon and given the many developments in the legal/regulatory frameworks; why is Kenya not experiencing the anticipated boom in the BPO sector? Did we miss something along the way especially within our regulatory framework, is it something we can pull back or work on quite quickly as the other potential BPO desitinations like Egypt, Mauritius and SA are not waiting for us to get it right. And then what should we do to get local and foreign investors to show more confidence in the BPO industry? My sixpence worth! Nyaki ________________________________ From: muriuki mureithi <mureithi@summitstrategies.co.ke> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 8:50:25 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 2 of 10:-BPO discussions, Legal and Regulatory Frameworks Thanks Walu for the early morning call Q4 - yes , one of the key markets we are targeting i.e. UK is a party to the European wide data protection arrangement. This arrangement has stringent requirements for cross border data exchange and particularly to members who are not party to that arrangement. Kenyan law on data protection as you rightly state is non-existent. Certainly the fact the key players in the market prefer to operate their own contact centres apart from the daring example of Telkom Kenya is a damning reminder that we have to do a lot of work to convince ourselves first before we go out and convince others that we can handle their sensitive data. In a multi-country study we did for university of the Maryland; The bpo phenomena in Kenya: Emerging flagship to drive ICT development -A case study in 2007, the legal framework need to address a number of issues notably - data protection, indemnity for operators , bonding framework for staff - the police conduct certification is only good for matatus not high end confidential bpo work , incentive framework eg use of epza , fiscal etc With the legal loop holes the study found that some Kenya bpo were forced to register an operation in the target market such that, that operation was contractually responsible for the projects being done in Kenya. This immense can be overcome by an improved legal framework. Now is an opportunity we should not lose to build a supporting legal framework for bpo Cheers MM -----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+mureithi=summitstrategies.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+mureithi=summitstrategies.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.k e] On Behalf Of Walubengo J Sent: 03 June 2009 08:05 To: mureithi@summitstrategies.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: [kictanet] Day 2 of 10:-BPO discussions,Legal and Regulatory Frameworks Morning all, Yesterday was like my 1st day in school - what a rich learning experience! Thanx to Waema, Nyaki, Barrack, Otuoma, and MM whose contributions were quite enlightening. Of the two questions asked, it appears that we need both comprehensive ICT and BPO Policies and Strategies. With regard to National BPO strategies and targets we learnt that there was quite some detail at the Ministry of Planning and the BPO Society which could benefit members if made widely accessible. Today we move from the Policy to the Legal, Regulatory Frameworks. The Research study found very comprehensive Legal and Regulatory environment in S.Africa, India and Mauritius that supported their BPO industry. Specifically, laws that took care of eTransactions, eCrime, Copyrights and Data Protection were well established. Furthermore their BPO Industries had adopted stringent Quality Assurance Frameworks for BPO and Contact Center Operations. The Researchers found that the case for Kenya was relatively comparable - with the recently enacted KCA Act (2009) that deals with eCrime & eTransactions leading the way, others like the Copyright Act (2001) as well as the Freedom of Information Bill cuurently at an advanced stage providing an encouraging Legal/Regulatory environment. Which brings us to the following two questions: Q3: With submarine cables landing next week and given the above legal/regulatory frameworks, how comes Kenya is NOT experiencing the anticipated boom in the BPO sector? What should we do to get local and foreign investors to show more confidence in the BPO industry? Q4: Could there be gaps in our Legal, Regulatory and Institutional frameworks that need to be addresssed? Put in black and white- Why hasn't Safaricom, Orange, Zain and several local Banks who have all opened their own very large Call-Centers NOT shown confidence in the BPO sector by outsourcing their operations to local BPO operators? What of the Government itself? Why cant it outsource non-core functions to the local BPO operators before trying attract foreign investors to do the same? The floor is open, we have only today to get comments/answers to these issues. walu. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: mureithi@summitstrategies.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mureithi%40summitstrate gies.co.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: elizaslider@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/elizaslider%40yahoo.com

Prof. You raise good questions. In my my view, the question on foreign ownership should not arise now when we have thousands of our youth jobless. Most of those who would work in foreign owned enterprises are our future entrepreneurs. They will have the opportunity to learn through the ropes before embarking on an expensive venture. We are focusing the resources into infrastructure now but in the next few months, we begin to address capacity development. This has been on our rader as we developed the Multimedia University. We did not have funding to push the two development aspects concurently. I am open for suggestions. The SEZ policy is ready at Trade Ministry. The Law to establsh the incentives is underway but nevertheless we shall leverage on the current EPZ Law. Regards Ndemo.

Dear Dr. Ndemo,

Attached is material to guide theme 2 of e-discussion on BPOs. Any comments so far? Best wishes.

Tim Waema

On Sun, 2009-05-31 at 08:28 +0300, Prof. Waema wrote:

...

Dear Dr. Ndemo,

I hope this finds you in a good state of health.

Attached is the first theme of the BPO e-discussions over KICTANET FYINA. We have 5 themes which will be discussed over a two week period, starting Tue June 2nd.

Please note that we have changed the day of the stakeholders' workshop to Wednesday July 1st. You had agreed to be the guest of honour with the earlier date. Please confirm that you can still be the guest of honour to open the workshop on this new date.

Best wishes.

tim waema

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Eric, Unemployment in Africa is at a critical level. In Kenya we are on the edge where 75% of the population are youth with lots of energy and I belive other African countries are the same. We can choose to use this energy by all means or fail for fear of losing control of ownership (which we do not have in the first place). To attain reasonable economic growth and achieve lower unemployment rates with acceptable price stability, you need extraordinary measures in Africa. Schumpeter's creative destruction (entrepreneurialism) becomes imperative irrespective of sources of capital. We have failed three times to attract FDI to the communications sector by simply trying to accomodate local ownership. Yes it is critical that we have local participation in strategic investments. But I am almost correct to state that we do not have individual capital that can match the desired investment. Collectively, we can own large junks of even multinationals. That is the reason why we changed the policy to require that investors have up to three years to list in the stock market or seek for locally monied investors. This type of model will ensure that we provide quick employment and at the same time allow the employees to accumulate resources to participate in ownership or break away to set up similar investments. Regards Ndemo.

Dr. Ndemo,

Please allow me to differ with you on the subject of ownership. I have being spending abit of my time through my private research firm to relate ICT to outcomes. A 2009 World Bank report has analyzed the impact of broadband on growth in 120 countries from 1980 to 2006, showing that each 10 percentage points of broadband penetration results in 1.21% increase in per capita Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth in developed countries, and 1.38% increase in developing countries.

Ghana's GDP was $74MUSD in 2008 which represented a 7.8% growth, alot of African countries had considerable GDP growth including Kenya but we have experienced decline in incomes, employment, health etc, why? The reason between 35 and 60% of African economies are owned by foreigners which means that 35 to 60% of the GDP growth leaves the country. Back in the day the economist used Gross National Product (GNP) were they argued that you need to deduct the foreign participation from the GDP to know the real impact on the local economy.

To your point, my submission is that we neeed to have some considerable and in my view "majority" level of local ownership of the productive sectors of our economy in order for GDP to make sense, otherwise we need to find ways of dealing with "capital flight" otherwise we would create jobs etc but the return effect would be minimal. In the same way we want to create jobs etc, we need to also seek simultaneously to own the ventures that create the jobs.

Eric here

On 4 Jun 2009, at 09:15, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:

...

Prof. You raise good questions. In my my view, the question on foreign ownership should not arise now when we have thousands of our youth jobless. Most of those who would work in foreign owned enterprises are our future entrepreneurs. They will have the opportunity to learn through the ropes before embarking on an expensive venture.

We are focusing the resources into infrastructure now but in the next few months, we begin to address capacity development. This has been on our rader as we developed the Multimedia University. We did not have funding to push the two development aspects concurently. I am open for suggestions.

The SEZ policy is ready at Trade Ministry. The Law to establsh the incentives is underway but nevertheless we shall leverage on the current EPZ Law.

Regards

Ndemo.

...

Dear Dr. Ndemo,

Attached is material to guide theme 2 of e-discussion on BPOs. Any comments so far? Best wishes.

Tim Waema

On Sun, 2009-05-31 at 08:28 +0300, Prof. Waema wrote:

...

Dear Dr. Ndemo,

I hope this finds you in a good state of health.

Attached is the first theme of the BPO e-discussions over KICTANET FYINA. We have 5 themes which will be discussed over a two week period, starting Tue June 2nd.

Please note that we have changed the day of the stakeholders' workshop to Wednesday July 1st. You had agreed to be the guest of honour with the earlier date. Please confirm that you can still be the guest of honour to open the workshop on this new date.

Best wishes.

tim waema

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Eric, We can debate this later. It may define our true ideologies that we often mask in order to conform. Regards Ndemo.

Dr. Ndemo,

I would defer to you on the strategic policy effort to deal with ownership.

One of the submissions we have made to the Ghana government is to work a mechanism where natural resources like Oil etc can be converted to cash and such cash can be used for strategic investments.

Am not sure, i entirely agree with you that we dont have the money to invest. The issues are around how do we mobilise liquidity and turn them into instruments for investment. Really, am not an economist or financial strategist but we need to put those brians to work. We need them to realise that, it cant be business as usual, we have a problem and they must work to change the status quo. The amount of money outside the banking sector and under pillows and buried in farms is outstanding.

Am sorry to branch off this discussion on BPO to investments but i think we would end it here so the original trend can proceed.

Eric here

On 4 Jun 2009, at 17:40, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:

...

Eric, Unemployment in Africa is at a critical level. In Kenya we are on the edge where 75% of the population are youth with lots of energy and I belive other African countries are the same. We can choose to use this energy by all means or fail for fear of losing control of ownership (which we do not have in the first place). To attain reasonable economic growth and achieve lower unemployment rates with acceptable price stability, you need extraordinary measures in Africa. Schumpeter's creative destruction (entrepreneurialism) becomes imperative irrespective of sources of capital.

We have failed three times to attract FDI to the communications sector by simply trying to accomodate local ownership. Yes it is critical that we have local participation in strategic investments. But I am almost correct to state that we do not have individual capital that can match the desired investment. Collectively, we can own large junks of even multinationals. That is the reason why we changed the policy to require that investors have up to three years to list in the stock market or seek for locally monied investors. This type of model will ensure that we provide quick employment and at the same time allow the employees to accumulate resources to participate in ownership or break away to set up similar investments.

Regards

Ndemo.

...

Dr. Ndemo,

Please allow me to differ with you on the subject of ownership. I have being spending abit of my time through my private research firm to relate ICT to outcomes. A 2009 World Bank report has analyzed the impact of broadband on growth in 120 countries from 1980 to 2006, showing that each 10 percentage points of broadband penetration results in 1.21% increase in per capita Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth in developed countries, and 1.38% increase in developing countries.

Ghana's GDP was $74MUSD in 2008 which represented a 7.8% growth, alot of African countries had considerable GDP growth including Kenya but we have experienced decline in incomes, employment, health etc, why? The reason between 35 and 60% of African economies are owned by foreigners which means that 35 to 60% of the GDP growth leaves the country. Back in the day the economist used Gross National Product (GNP) were they argued that you need to deduct the foreign participation from the GDP to know the real impact on the local economy.

To your point, my submission is that we neeed to have some considerable and in my view "majority" level of local ownership of the productive sectors of our economy in order for GDP to make sense, otherwise we need to find ways of dealing with "capital flight" otherwise we would create jobs etc but the return effect would be minimal. In the same way we want to create jobs etc, we need to also seek simultaneously to own the ventures that create the jobs.

Eric here

On 4 Jun 2009, at 09:15, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:

...

Prof. You raise good questions. In my my view, the question on foreign ownership should not arise now when we have thousands of our youth jobless. Most of those who would work in foreign owned enterprises are our future entrepreneurs. They will have the opportunity to learn through the ropes before embarking on an expensive venture.

We are focusing the resources into infrastructure now but in the next few months, we begin to address capacity development. This has been on our rader as we developed the Multimedia University. We did not have funding to push the two development aspects concurently. I am open for suggestions.

The SEZ policy is ready at Trade Ministry. The Law to establsh the incentives is underway but nevertheless we shall leverage on the current EPZ Law.

Regards

Ndemo.

...

Dear Dr. Ndemo,

Attached is material to guide theme 2 of e-discussion on BPOs. Any comments so far? Best wishes.

Tim Waema

On Sun, 2009-05-31 at 08:28 +0300, Prof. Waema wrote:

...

Dear Dr. Ndemo,

I hope this finds you in a good state of health.

Attached is the first theme of the BPO e-discussions over KICTANET FYINA. We have 5 themes which will be discussed over a two week period, starting Tue June 2nd.

Please note that we have changed the day of the stakeholders' workshop to Wednesday July 1st. You had agreed to be the guest of honour with the earlier date. Please confirm that you can still be the guest of honour to open the workshop on this new date.

Best wishes.

tim waema

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Interesting discussion colleagues, i would like to emphasize on the Issue of *confidence* raised by Nyaki, we can have have the right legal and regulatory frameworks but without the requisite Confidence in ourselves we will not get anywhere, i have just returned from a conference in Southern Africa and was amazed by the Zeal and exhubarance exhibited by South Africans regarding their Countries ability, they feel they can take on anything anytime and that they are the best, this is one area we should work on, i saw Ps Ndemo on TV the other day with a Kenyan Branded T-shirt thats what i am talking about. The reason why there is little or no confidence is lack of exposure, leading to a top down confidence as opposed to bottom up. The government should consider organizing subsidized business trips to Countries like South Africa or Singapore to expose our businessmen specifically SME's interested in the BPO sector, presently we keep sending the same teams to industry events and much as they share the information that they learn during the foreign trips the end result is counter productive since the common man cant relate to the concepts they come up with to cut it short "seeing is beleiving", remember TJ's airlifts that is what we need, the initial cost might be high but the return on investment will be greater. I am of the opinion that once this airlifts commence the industry should be able to take shape since relationships will be created during the visits. Secondly Something needs to be done with regard to Standards in the ICT sector our current best practices don't demonstrate the seriousness required for us to attain Vision 2030, there is a Laissez Faire kind of attitude towards Standardization processes Anyone against this idea should not base it on money, there is money .... On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 7:50 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:

Walubengo, In the next few weeks, Judiciary is to outsource its transcriptions of court process. We need to put in place the infrastructure first. some decisions take longer because they require cabinet approval. The good news is that there is sufficient goodwill to bring such reforms.

Ndemo.

...

Morning all,

Yesterday was like my 1st day in school - what a rich learning

experience!

...

Thanx to Waema, Nyaki, Barrack, Otuoma, and MM whose contributions were quite enlightening. Of the two questions asked, it appears that we need both comprehensive ICT and BPO Policies and Strategies. With regard to National BPO strategies and targets we learnt that there was quite some detail at the Ministry of Planning and the BPO Society which could benefit members if made widely accessible.

Today we move from the Policy to the Legal, Regulatory Frameworks. The Research study found very comprehensive Legal and Regulatory environment in S.Africa, India and Mauritius that supported their BPO industry. Specifically, laws that took care of eTransactions, eCrime, Copyrights and Data Protection were well established. Furthermore their BPO Industries had adopted stringent Quality Assurance Frameworks for BPO and Contact Center Operations.

The Researchers found that the case for Kenya was relatively comparable - with the recently enacted KCA Act (2009) that deals with eCrime & eTransactions leading the way, others like the Copyright Act (2001) as well as the Freedom of Information Bill cuurently at an advanced stage providing an encouraging Legal/Regulatory environment.

Which brings us to the following two questions:

Q3: With submarine cables landing next week and given the above legal/regulatory frameworks, how comes Kenya is NOT experiencing the anticipated boom in the BPO sector? What should we do to get local and foreign investors to show more confidence in the BPO industry?

Q4: Could there be gaps in our Legal, Regulatory and Institutional frameworks that need to be addresssed?

Put in black and white- Why hasn't Safaricom, Orange, Zain and several local Banks who have all opened their own very large Call-Centers NOT shown confidence in the BPO sector by outsourcing their operations to local BPO operators? What of the Government itself? Why cant it outsource non-core functions to the local BPO operators before trying attract foreign investors to do the same?

The floor is open, we have only today to get comments/answers to these issues.

walu.

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http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke

...

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-- Barrack O. Otieno ISSEN CONSULTING Tel: +254721325277 +254733206359 http://projectdiscovery.or.ke To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility as a free man. Alan Paton, South Africa

It is quite encouraging to hear from the PS that one Department of Government is prepared to outsource some of its processes. This is good news because it is the sort of event that might create the spark that will cause the big bang of outsourcing activity (onshore followed by offshore) that everyone is waiting for. Why? From the available data, there is no evidence that Kenya’s policy, legal and regulatory frameworks or lack of them are a hindrance to the growth of the sector. Indeed we have made milestones … BPO specific policy and regulation is necessary but not sufficient. First I think what lacks is widespread and demonstrable EVIDENCE of what Kenya is capable of offering. A speaker of international repute in BPO while visiting Kenya recently presented that few big brand names want to be the first person to outsource to a company or country. As a result, of this ‘First to be Second Phenomenon’, clients end up looking to the more established destinations. Companies in the client countries are much more focused on demonstrable quality of work, and want to ensure that it fits seamlessly into their overall organization and with their corporate mandates. In a 2008 survey conducted by Yankee Group dubbed “Can Middle Eastern Countries fulfil the "Eastern" Promise?” found at http://www.yankeegroup.com/ResearchDocument.do?id=17120 , Open/Competitive ICT Environment (policy, regulation…) was ranked 5th after quality, labour costs, linguistic skills, and infrastructure as a Selection Criterion for Outsourcing Location. Start with local outsourcing and demonstrate to Safaricom et al, capacity then move out. Secondly, never underestimate perception. Picture the mind of a first time western visitor: • Immigration Agents? Pray it goes well! • Luggage – Pray it shows up! • Exit the Airport and mobbed by people trying to take your bags and get you in a Taxi • Drive from Airport to Hotel – What does it look like? Chaos or clean? • Where are Starbucks and McDonalds? (Familiarity brings relief) No amount of marketing globetrotting will erase perceptions if we do not invest on bringing the people in for first hand encounters right here. Thereafter you can depend on their word of mouth. Good regulations and policies are just the icing on the cake. 2009/6/4 Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com>

Bwana PS,

Much appreciated contribution but I am struggling with one issue. I have been toying with how to put it down and lacked the words so I will put it down anyway (apologies if misunderstood). Here goes....does the cabinet really understand that some of their delays in decision making can make the country lose out in a big way. I know for a fact that there are many countries who have positioned themselves ready to 'grab' the outsourcing jobs while we still await decisions. Is there any way around this? Is there anyway that they can understand that a decision which impinges on the legal/regulatory framework of the ICT industry must be timely unlike, for example, a decision on new equipment/trucks for the army (important but not urgent)...or matters to do with paternity leave (important but not urgent)........

Best,

Nyaki

------------------------------ *From:* "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> *To:* elizaslider@yahoo.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 3, 2009 7:50:53 PM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Day 2 of 10:-BPO discussions, Legal and Regulatory Frameworks

Walubengo, In the next few weeks, Judiciary is to outsource its transcriptions of court process. We need to put in place the infrastructure first. some decisions take longer because they require cabinet approval. The good news is that there is sufficient goodwill to bring such reforms.

Ndemo.

...

Morning all,

Yesterday was like my 1st day in school - what a rich learning

experience!

...

Thanx to Waema, Nyaki, Barrack, Otuoma, and MM whose contributions were quite enlightening. Of the two questions asked, it appears that we need both comprehensive ICT and BPO Policies and Strategies. With regard to National BPO strategies and targets we learnt that there was quite some detail at the Ministry of Planning and the BPO Society which could benefit members if made widely accessible.

Today we move from the Policy to the Legal, Regulatory Frameworks. The Research study found very comprehensive Legal and Regulatory environment in S.Africa, India and Mauritius that supported their BPO industry. Specifically, laws that took care of eTransactions, eCrime, Copyrights and Data Protection were well established. Furthermore their BPO Industries had adopted stringent Quality Assurance Frameworks for BPO and Contact Center Operations.

The Researchers found that the case for Kenya was relatively comparable - with the recently enacted KCA Act (2009) that deals with eCrime & eTransactions leading the way, others like the Copyright Act (2001) as well as the Freedom of Information Bill cuurently at an advanced stage providing an encouraging Legal/Regulatory environment.

Which brings us to the following two questions:

Q3: With submarine cables landing next week and given the above legal/regulatory frameworks, how comes Kenya is NOT experiencing the anticipated boom in the BPO sector? What should we do to get local and foreign investors to show more confidence in the BPO industry?

Q4: Could there be gaps in our Legal, Regulatory and Institutional frameworks that need to be addresssed?

Put in black and white- Why hasn't Safaricom, Orange, Zain and several local Banks who have all opened their own very large Call-Centers NOT shown confidence in the BPO sector by outsourcing their operations to local BPO operators? What of the Government itself? Why cant it outsource non-core functions to the local BPO operators before trying attract foreign investors to do the same?

The floor is open, we have only today to get comments/answers to these issues.

walu.

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Hi all, I am convinced that we would not need the Transport Licencing Board or the Michuki rules if we only had a few vehicles on our roads. Before we start thinking of BPO related regulatory frameworks we need to build an industry first. An industry with a sizeable number of players with capacity and world class infrastructure that would meet the minimum standards of any client out there. What we have is alot of talk and false believe that cheaper internet will open the flood gates of work, . Its is imperative we realise that no one out there is waiting for Kenya to be ready to give us work. Many multinationals out there are already getting their work done by companies that have demostrable track record (borrowing Peter's word) , human, financial and infrastructural capacity . If our idea of competing in these markets is fronting 50 operators with 10 seats each we might just save the clients money on a per seat basis but we end up creating for them a logistical nightmare which many clients will not take. Kenya as a destination might be cheaper but it is not always about low wage differential. Trying to merge the BPOs to create more viable bigger entities might not be the way to go capitalism moves in well defined circles and it will take care of that. Over time some will be left standing and they will have gained enough traction for clients to notice them. When am out there looking for work, potential clients ask me about HIV AIDS, Insecurity and political stability, before we discuss my capacity or lack off / the countries infrastructure or lack off and regulatory frameworks. Thinking about it I can't blame anybody who wants an assurance that we have healthy kenyans and a workforce that can get to work without fear of being attacked. In a nutshell i see Kenya ending up with an over regulated none existent BPO industry. Looking at the Kenyan BPO industry on a mirror i dont see a Lion I see something different ... a Mouse maybe . My 2 cents. Regards, Richard MWANGI on Ngong Road. 2009/6/4 Peter K. Kenduiywo <pkenduiywo@jambo.co.ke>

It is quite encouraging to hear from the PS that one Department of Government is prepared to outsource some of its processes. This is good news because it is the sort of event that might create the spark that will cause the big bang of outsourcing activity (onshore followed by offshore) that everyone is waiting for. Why? From the available data, there is no evidence that Kenya’s policy, legal and regulatory frameworks or lack of them are a hindrance to the growth of the sector. Indeed we have made milestones … BPO specific policy and regulation is necessary but not sufficient.

First I think what lacks is widespread and demonstrable EVIDENCE of what Kenya is capable of offering.

A speaker of international repute in BPO while visiting Kenya recently presented that few big brand names want to be the first person to outsource to a company or country. As a result, of this ‘First to be Second Phenomenon’, clients end up looking to the more established destinations. Companies in the client countries are much more focused on demonstrable quality of work, and want to ensure that it fits seamlessly into their overall organization and with their corporate mandates.

In a 2008 survey conducted by Yankee Group dubbed “Can Middle Eastern Countries fulfil the "Eastern" Promise?” found at http://www.yankeegroup.com/ResearchDocument.do?id=17120 , Open/Competitive ICT Environment (policy, regulation…) was ranked 5th after quality, labour costs, linguistic skills, and infrastructure as a Selection Criterion for Outsourcing Location.

Start with local outsourcing and demonstrate to Safaricom et al, capacity then move out.

Secondly, never underestimate perception. Picture the mind of a first time western visitor:

• Immigration Agents? Pray it goes well!

• Luggage – Pray it shows up!

• Exit the Airport and mobbed by people trying to take your bags and get you in a Taxi

• Drive from Airport to Hotel – What does it look like? Chaos or clean?

• Where are Starbucks and McDonalds? (Familiarity brings relief)

No amount of marketing globetrotting will erase perceptions if we do not invest on bringing the people in for first hand encounters right here. Thereafter you can depend on their word of mouth.

Good regulations and policies are just the icing on the cake.

2009/6/4 Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com>

...

Bwana PS,

Much appreciated contribution but I am struggling with one issue. I have been toying with how to put it down and lacked the words so I will put it down anyway (apologies if misunderstood). Here goes....does the cabinet really understand that some of their delays in decision making can make the country lose out in a big way. I know for a fact that there are many countries who have positioned themselves ready to 'grab' the outsourcing jobs while we still await decisions. Is there any way around this? Is there anyway that they can understand that a decision which impinges on the legal/regulatory framework of the ICT industry must be timely unlike, for example, a decision on new equipment/trucks for the army (important but not urgent)...or matters to do with paternity leave (important but not urgent)........

Best,

Nyaki

------------------------------ *From:* "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> *To:* elizaslider@yahoo.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 3, 2009 7:50:53 PM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Day 2 of 10:-BPO discussions, Legal and Regulatory Frameworks

Walubengo, In the next few weeks, Judiciary is to outsource its transcriptions of court process. We need to put in place the infrastructure first. some decisions take longer because they require cabinet approval. The good news is that there is sufficient goodwill to bring such reforms.

Ndemo.

...

Morning all,

Yesterday was like my 1st day in school - what a rich learning

...

Thanx to Waema, Nyaki, Barrack, Otuoma, and MM whose contributions were quite enlightening. Of the two questions asked, it appears that we need both comprehensive ICT and BPO Policies and Strategies. With regard to National BPO strategies and targets we learnt that there was quite some detail at the Ministry of Planning and the BPO Society which could benefit members if made widely accessible.

Today we move from the Policy to the Legal, Regulatory Frameworks. The Research study found very comprehensive Legal and Regulatory environment in S.Africa, India and Mauritius that supported their BPO industry. Specifically, laws that took care of eTransactions, eCrime, Copyrights and Data Protection were well established. Furthermore their BPO Industries had adopted stringent Quality Assurance Frameworks for BPO and Contact Center Operations.

The Researchers found that the case for Kenya was relatively comparable

experience! -

...

with the recently enacted KCA Act (2009) that deals with eCrime & eTransactions leading the way, others like the Copyright Act (2001) as well as the Freedom of Information Bill cuurently at an advanced stage providing an encouraging Legal/Regulatory environment.

Which brings us to the following two questions:

Q3: With submarine cables landing next week and given the above legal/regulatory frameworks, how comes Kenya is NOT experiencing the anticipated boom in the BPO sector? What should we do to get local and foreign investors to show more confidence in the BPO industry?

Q4: Could there be gaps in our Legal, Regulatory and Institutional frameworks that need to be addresssed?

Put in black and white- Why hasn't Safaricom, Orange, Zain and several local Banks who have all opened their own very large Call-Centers NOT shown confidence in the BPO sector by outsourcing their operations to local BPO operators? What of the Government itself? Why cant it outsource non-core functions to the local BPO operators before trying attract foreign investors to do the same?

The floor is open, we have only today to get comments/answers to these issues.

walu.

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What Muthoni says is factually correct. Apparently some firms who used to outsource work to India have been forced to bring their work back on-shore alot is due to the Indian company Muthoni talks about and others due to compromising quality. This is especially front-office work. However, some have not ruled out the possibility of outsourcing the work again if they are confident they will get the same or close to the same quality if the kept the work on-shore, but of course at the optimum price. Case in a point, one of the UK (England) outsourcers had to bring back their work on-shore and 'outsource' to Ireland but would be keen to find another destination not necessarily cheaper than India but of course cheaper than Ireland (optimum price is key here)...but ultimately their interest is to ensure quality if not compromised. Kenya are you listening? ________________________________ From: muthoni masinde <muthoni@uonbi.ac.ke> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2009 12:22:26 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 2 of 10:-BPO discussions, Legal and Regulatory Frameworks I disagree with Mwangi! I am for the idea that we create ‘Kenyan Brand’ as far as outsourcing is concerned. Going the way of vehicles on Kenyan roads (wait for critical mass then get Michuki to sort out the mess) will lead us to a sea of confusion. Outsourcing clients are so sensitive that the fact that one had a bad experience at Mwangi’s (God forbid!) company will spoil for the others. Take example of the Indian company that was involved in sale of credit cards information. This one spoiled for so many others that now there is an ‘exodus’ (for lack of a better word) of BPO work out of India ! Let’s have a framework and ensure that operators work within it and we will go places as a country! ________________________________ From:kictanet-bounces+muthoni=uonbi.ac.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+muthoni=uonbi.ac.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Richard Mwangi Sent: 04 June 2009 11:03 To: muthoni@uonbi.ac.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 2 of 10:-BPO discussions,Legal and Regulatory Frameworks Hi all, I am convinced that we would not need the Transport Licencing Board or the Michuki rules if we only had a few vehicles on our roads. Before we start thinking of BPO related regulatory frameworks we need to build an industry first. An industry with a sizeable number of players with capacity and world class infrastructure that would meet the minimum standards of any client out there. What we have is alot of talk and false believe that cheaper internet will open the flood gates of work, . Its is imperative we realise that no one out there is waiting for Kenya to be ready to give us work. Many multinationals out there are already getting their work done by companies that have demostrable track record (borrowing Peter's word) , human, financial and infrastructural capacity . If our idea of competing in these markets is fronting 50 operators with 10 seats each we might just save the clients money on a per seat basis but we end up creating for them a logistical nightmare which many clients will not take. Kenya as a destination might be cheaper but it is not always about low wage differential. Trying to merge the BPOs to create more viable bigger entities might not be the way to go capitalism moves in well defined circles and it will take care of that. Over time some will be left standing and they will have gained enough traction for clients to notice them. When am out there looking for work, potential clients ask me about HIV AIDS, Insecurity and political stability, before we discuss my capacity or lack off / the countries infrastructure or lack off and regulatory frameworks. Thinking about it I can't blame anybody who wants an assurance that we have healthy kenyans and a workforce that can get to work without fear of being attacked. In a nutshell i see Kenya ending up with an over regulated none existent BPO industry. Looking at the Kenyan BPO industry on a mirror i dont see a Lion I see something different ... a Mouse maybe . My 2 cents. Regards, Richard MWANGI on Ngong Road . 2009/6/4 Peter K. Kenduiywo <pkenduiywo@jambo.co.ke> It is quite encouraging to hear from the PS that one Department of Government is prepared to outsource some of its processes. This is good news because it is the sort of event that might create the spark that will cause the big bang of outsourcing activity (onshore followed by offshore) that everyone is waiting for. Why? From the available data, there is no evidence that Kenya ’s policy, legal and regulatory frameworks or lack of them are a hindrance to the growth of the sector. Indeed we have made milestones … BPO specific policy and regulation is necessary but not sufficient. First I think what lacks is widespread and demonstrable EVIDENCE of what Kenya is capable of offering. A speaker of international repute in BPO while visiting Kenya recently presented that few big brand names want to be the first person to outsource to a company or country. As a result, of this ‘First to be Second Phenomenon’, clients end up looking to the more established destinations. Companies in the client countries are much more focused on demonstrable quality of work, and want to ensure that it fits seamlessly into their overall organization and with their corporate mandates. In a 2008 survey conducted by Yankee Group dubbed “Can Middle Eastern Countries fulfil the "Eastern" Promise?” found at http://www.yankeegroup.com/ResearchDocument.do?id=17120 , Open/Competitive ICT Environment (policy, regulation…) was ranked 5th after quality, labour costs, linguistic skills, and infrastructure as a Selection Criterion for Outsourcing Location. Start with local outsourcing and demonstrate to Safaricom et al, capacity then move out. Secondly, never underestimate perception. Picture the mind of a first time western visitor: • Immigration Agents? Pray it goes well! • Luggage – Pray it shows up! • Exit the Airport and mobbed by people trying to take your bags and get you in a Taxi • Drive from Airport to Hotel – What does it look like? Chaos or clean? • Where are Starbucks and McDonalds? (Familiarity brings relief) No amount of marketing globetrotting will erase perceptions if we do not invest on bringing the people in for first hand encounters right here. Thereafter you can depend on their word of mouth. Good regulations and policies are just the icing on the cake. 2009/6/4 Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> Bwana PS, Much appreciated contribution but I am struggling with one issue. I have been toying with how to put it down and lacked the words so I will put it down anyway (apologies if misunderstood). Here goes....does the cabinet really understand that some of their delays in decision making can make the country lose out in a big way. I know for a fact that there are many countries who have positioned themselves ready to 'grab' the outsourcing jobs while we still await decisions. Is there any way around this? Is there anyway that they can understand that a decision which impinges on the legal/regulatory framework of the ICT industry must be timely unlike, for example, a decision on new equipment/trucks for the army (important but not urgent)...or matters to do with paternity leave (important but not urgent)........ Best, Nyaki ________________________________ From:"bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 7:50:53 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 2 of 10:-BPO discussions, Legal and Regulatory Frameworks Walubengo, In the next few weeks, Judiciary is to outsource its transcriptions of court process. We need to put in place the infrastructure first. some decisions take longer because they require cabinet approval. The good news is that there is sufficient goodwill to bring such reforms. Ndemo.

Morning all,

Yesterday was like my 1st day in school - what a rich learning experience! Thanx to Waema, Nyaki, Barrack, Otuoma, and MM whose contributions were quite enlightening. Of the two questions asked, it appears that we need both comprehensive ICT and BPO Policies and Strategies. With regard

National BPO strategies and targets we learnt that there was quite some detail at the Ministry of Planning and the BPO Society which could benefit members if made widely accessible.

Today we move from the Policy to the Legal, Regulatory Frameworks. The Research study found very comprehensive Legal and Regulatory environment in S.Africa , India and Mauritius

to that supported their BPO industry.

Specifically, laws that took care of eTransactions, eCrime, Copyrights and Data Protection were well established. Furthermore their BPO Industries had adopted stringent Quality Assurance Frameworks for BPO and Contact Center Operations.

The Researchers found that the case for Kenya was relatively comparable - with the recently enacted KCA Act (2009) that deals with eCrime & eTransactions leading the way, others like the Copyright Act (2001) as well as the Freedom of Information Bill cuurently at an advanced stage providing an encouraging Legal/Regulatory environment.

Which brings us to the following two questions:

Q3: With submarine cables landing next week and given the above legal/regulatory frameworks, how comes Kenya is NOT experiencing the anticipated boom in the BPO sector? What should we do to get local and foreign investors to show more confidence in the BPO industry?

Q4: Could there be gaps in our Legal, Regulatory and Institutional frameworks that need to be addresssed?

Put in black and white- Why hasn't Safaricom, Orange , Zain and several local Banks who have all opened their own very large Call-Centers NOT shown confidence in the BPO sector by outsourcing their operations to local BPO operators? What of the Government itself? Why cant it outsource non-core functions to the local BPO operators before trying attract foreign investors to do the same?

The floor is open, we have only today to get comments/answers to these issues.

walu.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke

---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"

---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world" _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: elizaslider@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/elizaslider%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: pkenduiywo@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkenduiywo%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: richard.mwangi@googlemail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/richard.mwangi%40google... ----------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed t o be clean. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ UNIVERSITY OF NAIROBI IS ISO CERTIFIED The University of Nairobi is committed to providing quality services to all its clients. The University will monitor and review its quality performance from time to time through an effective implementation of the Quality Management System based on ISO 9001:2000 standard. University of Nairobi Website: http://www.uonbi.ac.ke/ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ----------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed t o be clean. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ UNIVERSITY OF NAIROBI IS ISO CERTIFIED The University of Nairobi is committed to providing quality services to all its clients. The University will monitor and review its quality performance from time to time through an effective implementation of the Quality Management System based on ISO 9001:2000 standard. University of Nairobi Website: http://www.uonbi.ac.ke/ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My Sister, I beg not to respond. However, you are at liberty to bring up this issue in the many reforms fora. Ndemo.

Bwana PS,

Much appreciated contribution but I am struggling with one issue. I have been toying with how to put it down and lacked the words so I will put it down anyway (apologies if misunderstood). Here goes....does the cabinet really understand that some of their delays in decision making can make the country lose out in a big way. I know for a fact that there are many countries who have positioned themselves ready to 'grab' the outsourcing jobs while we still await decisions. Is there any way around this? Is there anyway that they can understand that a decision which impinges on the legal/regulatory framework of the ICT industry must be timely unlike, for example, a decision on new equipment/trucks for the army (important but not urgent)...or matters to do with paternity leave (important but not urgent)........

Best,

Nyaki

________________________________ From: "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 7:50:53 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 2 of 10:-BPO discussions, Legal and Regulatory Frameworks

Walubengo, In the next few weeks, Judiciary is to outsource its transcriptions of court process. We need to put in place the infrastructure first. some decisions take longer because they require cabinet approval. The good news is that there is sufficient goodwill to bring such reforms.

Ndemo.

...

Morning all,

Yesterday was like my 1st day in school - what a rich learning experience! Thanx to Waema, Nyaki, Barrack, Otuoma, and MM whose contributions were quite enlightening. Of the two questions asked, it appears that we need both comprehensive ICT and BPO Policies and Strategies. With regard to National BPO strategies and targets we learnt that there was quite some detail at the Ministry of Planning and the BPO Society which could benefit members if made widely accessible.

Today we move from the Policy to the Legal, Regulatory Frameworks. The Research study found very comprehensive Legal and Regulatory environment in S.Africa, India and Mauritius that supported their BPO industry. Specifically, laws that took care of eTransactions, eCrime, Copyrights and Data Protection were well established. Furthermore their BPO Industries had adopted stringent Quality Assurance Frameworks for BPO and Contact Center Operations.

The Researchers found that the case for Kenya was relatively comparable - with the recently enacted KCA Act (2009) that deals with eCrime & eTransactions leading the way, others like the Copyright Act (2001) as well as the Freedom of Information Bill cuurently at an advanced stage providing an encouraging Legal/Regulatory environment.

Which brings us to the following two questions:

Q3: With submarine cables landing next week and given the above legal/regulatory frameworks, how comes Kenya is NOT experiencing the anticipated boom in the BPO sector? What should we do to get local and foreign investors to show more confidence in the BPO industry?

Q4: Could there be gaps in our Legal, Regulatory and Institutional frameworks that need to be addresssed?

Put in black and white- Why hasn't Safaricom, Orange, Zain and several local Banks who have all opened their own very large Call-Centers NOT shown confidence in the BPO sector by outsourcing their operations to local BPO operators? What of the Government itself? Why cant it outsource non-core functions to the local BPO operators before trying attract foreign investors to do the same?

The floor is open, we have only today to get comments/answers to these issues.

walu.

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