This is a very sad state of affairs.* "there is no technology transfer from the foreign vendor to young African Engineers.". *Most of the vendors are Chinese, including Huawei, ZTE and China International Telecommunication Construction Company (CITCC) who use Chinese expertise for all the high-tech aspects of the projects. In a number of cases maintenance manuals are written in Chinese to ensure that Africans are forever dependent on the Chinese even for the most basic of network maintenance chores. The current flow of our hard earned Capital from Kenya to China should be arrested. After giving Chinese Ksh 27 billion (US$ 330,000,000)<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thika_Road>for Thika road, I don't expect the same Chinese to be given the KSh. 2.5 trillion ($29.24 billion)<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamu_Port_and_Lamu-Southern_Sudan-Ethiopia_Transport_Corridor> for the LAPSSET project. There should have been enough knowledge transfer to Kenyans so that that Capital remains within the confines of our borders by local companies doing the works. I am still asking why the 22 story University of Nairobi Tower is being build by Chinese<http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate+News/University+of+Nairobi+set+to+expand+facilities+with+Sh2bn+tower/-/539550/1855598/-/11orer/-/index.html> Regards ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh google ID | Skype ID: lordmwesh On 5 September 2013 09:13, Network of non- formal Educational institutions < nnfeischools@yahoo.com> wrote:

To all We are investing so much in educating our child in ICT related field and it is the High time Kenya and Africa Believed in ourself If we miss it in ICT we miss it all Jane

------------------------------ *From:* Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> *To:* Jane Muriuki <nnfeischools@yahoo.com> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:08 AM *Subject:* [kictanet] Africa IT Jobs Outsourced to China – Africa May Become Perpetually Dependent on China for Certain Skills

Listers

This is an interesting article and if there is any truth abut this then we are really in trouble.

http://ictafrica.info/FullNews.php?id=10646

Can we learn from the Chinese? Most of their most celebrated companies 'learned & borrowed' from the West when they won big infrastructure and other contracts in China. This was a deliberate policy move orchestrated by the Chinese Government.

When are we going to stop this vicious cycle of being consumer countries?

When are we going to regain the glory days of the great African empires the likes of the Ancient Egyptian Empire and the Kingdom of Mali?

Innovation and invention, contrary to popular belief isn't and wasn't the preserve of the West and the East.

Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd

+254 713 601113/ 0770 906375

"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb

Sent from my iPad

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@Kivuva, maybe a comparative advantage gives the Chinese the ability to put up the University Tower than other bidders. RgdsGG From: Kivuva@transworldafrica.com Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 09:55:35 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Africa IT Jobs Outsourced to China – Africa May Become Perpetually Dependent on China for Certain Skills CC: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com This is a very sad state of affairs. "there is no technology transfer from the foreign vendor to young African Engineers.". Most of the vendors are Chinese, including Huawei, ZTE and China International Telecommunication Construction Company (CITCC) who use Chinese expertise for all the high-tech aspects of the projects. In a number of cases maintenance manuals are written in Chinese to ensure that Africans are forever dependent on the Chinese even for the most basic of network maintenance chores. The current flow of our hard earned Capital from Kenya to China should be arrested. After giving Chinese Ksh 27 billion (US$ 330,000,000) for Thika road, I don't expect the same Chinese to be given the KSh. 2.5 trillion ($29.24 billion) for the LAPSSET project. There should have been enough knowledge transfer to Kenyans so that that Capital remains within the confines of our borders by local companies doing the works. I am still asking why the 22 story University of Nairobi Tower is being build by Chinese Regards______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh google ID | Skype ID: lordmwesh On 5 September 2013 09:13, Network of non- formal Educational institutions <nnfeischools@yahoo.com> wrote: To all We are investing so much in educating our child in ICT related field and it is the High time Kenya and Africa Believed in ourself If we miss it in ICT we miss it all Jane From: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> To: Jane Muriuki <nnfeischools@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:08 AM Subject: [kictanet] Africa IT Jobs Outsourced to China – Africa May Become Perpetually Dependent on China for Certain Skills Listers This is an interesting article and if there is any truth abut this then we are really in trouble. http://ictafrica.info/FullNews.php?id=10646 Can we learn from the Chinese? Most of their most celebrated companies 'learned & borrowed' from the West when they won big infrastructure and other contracts in China. This was a deliberate policy move orchestrated by the Chinese Government. When are we going to stop this vicious cycle of being consumer countries? When are we going to regain the glory days of the great African empires the likes of the Ancient Egyptian Empire and the Kingdom of Mali? Innovation and invention, contrary to popular belief isn't and wasn't the preserve of the West and the East. Ali HusseinCEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375 "The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/nnfeischools%40yahoo.c... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafr... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

There are two very similar threads to this current thread, one of theme "How we are killing our Kenyan ICT Industry, what we could do to revive it!" I have noticed members contradict themselves on that thread, and this current one. Is there any economist in the list who can give us theory of best practice? I don't believe liberalization means we should open our bellies and let every big economy out there eat from it. I like giving the example of Germany. Their products although of relatively superior quality, are usually multiple times more expensive than imports. Same with their services. I wonder if the A 100 highway in Berlin was build by Chinese, even if Chinese firms quoted a fraction of the cost. Ali talked of the great Tumbuktu. When did we stop being innovators and builders and start being mass consumers? Is neocolonialism ensuring that we never move forward on our own? That we cannot do anything on our own? That Kenyans shall forever remain spanner boys in mega construction projects! NSSF and Times Tower were build by local companies, albeit probably at inflated prices. But with a willing and able government, can't we have local contractors do just as good a job? I am dead sure that the UTILITARIAN value of having local companies do works even at double the cost far outweighs the savings of auctioning our Capital. If we buy machinery from the west, should we still buy services from them? Where did we loose our national pride? Regards ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh google ID | Skype ID: lordmwesh

I agree with going local first in fact only going local. They can be invited to tender but knowing that it will most likely be awarded to a local. The chinese do not have European companies building their stuff and this is solely because they deliberately built up their capacity. We continuously spew engineers, architects, economists etc from our universities. where do they all o so that we wind up with foreign companies building stuff? If the issue is the bidding price please do not ignore that foreign companies are backed by their governments. It is an open secret that China funds their commercial companies. The Europeans do the same albeit more covertly. How is a local company with zero govt backing supposed to compete with that? The beauty with connectivity nowadays is that I have realized that the knowledge and skills I have as a geospatial guy are exactly the same as an Australian,Hungarian, American Graduate. We are all taught the same concepts and are expected to apply them to solve problems. Of Course the Moi regime destroyed most Why we allow our government to lock us out of big contracts is rather amusing. Who is the government anyway? On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:

Kivuva

Valid points.

Policy wonks need to study the Japanese and Chinese model (its apt considering our gaze is now facing east as opposed to West)

After the 2nd world war Japan was in tatters and basically a consumer/vassal state of the US. They literally pulled themselves by their shoestrings and protected their industries while at the same time partaking of US Capital. MITI (Ministry of international Trade and Industry) made a policy of building industry champions from Motor Vehicles to IT to Agriculture (Kobe beef from Japan is one of the Most expensive beefs per kilo in the world).

When Government and industry pull together in tandem a world of opportunity opens up.

Ali Hussein

+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113

"Kujikwaa si kuanguka, bali ni kwenda mbele" (To stumble is not to fall but a sign of going forward) - Swahili Proverb

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 19, 2013, at 4:38 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:

There are two very similar threads to this current thread, one of theme "How we are killing our Kenyan ICT Industry, what we could do to revive it!"

I have noticed members contradict themselves on that thread, and this current one.

Is there any economist in the list who can give us theory of best practice?

I don't believe liberalization means we should open our bellies and let every big economy out there eat from it.

I like giving the example of Germany. Their products although of relatively superior quality, are usually multiple times more expensive than imports. Same with their services. I wonder if the A 100 highway in Berlin was build by Chinese, even if Chinese firms quoted a fraction of the cost.

Ali talked of the great Tumbuktu. When did we stop being innovators and builders and start being mass consumers? Is neocolonialism ensuring that we never move forward on our own? That we cannot do anything on our own? That Kenyans shall forever remain spanner boys in mega construction projects!

NSSF and Times Tower were build by local companies, albeit probably at inflated prices. But with a willing and able government, can't we have local contractors do just as good a job?

I am dead sure that the UTILITARIAN value of having local companies do works even at double the cost far outweighs the savings of auctioning our Capital. If we buy machinery from the west, should we still buy services from them?

Where did we loose our national pride?

Regards

______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh google ID | Skype ID: lordmwesh

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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke