Re: [kictanet] [labor issues] why Kenya should urgently BAN unpaid
I think Ali is being “clever” like the proverbial hare. Honestly, we need to stop looking at everything the West, including their vile practices, as gospel truth. Taking on interns, with the sole intention of getting unpaid labour, even if it is the "sneaker network" that gets you coffee is despicable. The intern, no matter how enterprising, will be used and dumped. "Why would a rational employer - whose goal is to maximise margins (within a very difficult / hostile business environment) - be interested in paying an experienced ex-intern, when they can simply get a fresh unpaid intern for free, train them within hours or a couple of days, even as other unpaids hold the temporary slack? This where we are headed - if not there already. The youth are "working" but they are still technically unemployed because they are not earning a living." If getting “ahead" means bowing down to the "scacity mentality” idol and the stepping on people is one’s business success mantra, may that business perish and it’s “rational” employer perish. Please note, we are not talking about the graduate who feels entitled to get paid internship, no. Those kinds of people will always be weeded out by the system. Their attitude alone is their undoing. We are talking about the ones with little to no social advantage of networks of family or friends who can supoort unpaid internship. This is where our Africans, “Utu ni watu”, “Ubuntu” and “I am because we are” comes in. Best Regards, Jimmy Gitonga Web Software Design and Development LinkedIn: Jimmy Gitonga | Twitter: @Afrowave ______________________________________ Web: afroshok.com <http://afroshok.com/>
On 3 Apr 2019, at 3:15 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
Many thanks for your thoughts Ali.? Indeed, words in most languages can have multiple, totally unrelated, meanings (e.g. "saw" the noun/hardware, "saw" the verb/cutting, and "saw" the past tense of "see"... or in Swahili "paka" the cat vs "paka" as in to paint) so in this case the appropriate focus would be on the vocation-oriented definition of "intern" (though I can see material for contextual innuendo in the two meanings hehe).
Some well known intellectuals on twitter are getting stuck on written definitions and relying on logical fallacies which is not intellectually sincere. Are definitions cast in stone? Can they have a shelf-life? Don't they change with time??
Fact: Definitions only document meaning as it evolves over time; they are not the source of meaning. The general rule of thumb is that Informality precedes formality. Thankfully the etymology (origin of a word and the historical development of its meaning) of "intern" shows that the meaning and usage, in professional context, has indeed been evolving.
According to an online source (link below), the term is believed to have been documented as a noun circa 1879 for the teaching and medical professions, and then extended to other profesions around 1963. It was formally recognize as a verb circa 1933 within the medical field. Prior to that, and going back as far as medieval times (in western cultures), people learned through apprenticeships and although you did not get "paid" in the narrow sense of the term, your boss provided you with free *accommodation* and *food*. Such contextual nuances around the apprenticeship system are (conveniently) ignored by advocates of unpaid internships.
In African culture (link below), apprenticeship was a very POSITIVE community experience. People had EMPATHY for one another and collective gains were favored over individual gains. Not caring whether someone had food or a safe place to sleep was unheard of. Lets face it, cold blooded, greed motivated exploitation of the youth within a community is an alien concept in most (if not all) of pre-colonial Africa.?
In traditional China and (I believe) India the apprentice is technically "adopted" and the relationship is parent - child, but in vocational context. There is mutual love, concern and caring even if the apprentice is treated harshly. It never crosses over to predation.
We are Africans. Unless we want to give up our core identity, the quest for meaning in everything we do (and the policies we support) has to be done within the context of our Africanness. Even as we adopt poitive aspects of foreign cultures in a cosmopolitan world, we can strive to retain the best aspects of our indigenous cultures. For example if the industrialized world had emulated positive African philosophies like simple contented living in harmony with nature, we would not have existential problems like climate change, WMDs, world wars, economic inequality and so on.?
Imported meanings are not rules cast in stone. We can, if we want to, define our own modern, African, definition of the word "intern" in a way that that protects our youth from abuse and exploitation.?
The youth are our children and our future. Let us not raise a generation of bitter, angry and resentful people. It's not a smart thing to do. Thanks & have a great day!
Patrick. Patrick A. M. Maina[Cross Domain Innovator | Independent Public Policy Analyst - Indigenous Innovations] Links: 1. Etymology of the word "intern":https://www.etymonline.com/word/intern <https://www.etymonline.com/word/intern>
2. Traditional apprenticeship in Africahttps://www.academia.edu/11682853/Revisiting_the_role_of_traditional_apprent... <africahttps://www.academia.edu/11682853/Revisiting_the_role_of_traditional_apprenticeship_in_traditional_Africa_vocational_pedagogy>
3. Weird history of internshiphttps://www.businessinsider.com/the-weird-history-of-how-internships-came-to... <internshiphttps://www.businessinsider.com/the-weird-history-of-how-internships-came-to-be-2016->
Jimmy Let me be clear and remove my 'cleverness' :-) My deep conviction is this:- We are bucking the wrong tree. Let's go back to the basics. Let's redefine what an internship/apprenticeship means. Firstly, let's accept that the internship concept has been so bastardized that it has lost meaning. I would like at this point to replace internship with apprenticeship. Apprenticeship used to mean:- *A person who is learning a trade from a skilled employer, having agreed to work for a fixed period at low wages.* Let us have candid conversations around changing mindsets - both from a corporate perspective and an internee/apprentice perspective. Regards *Ali Hussein* *Principal* *AHK & Associates* Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Road, Westlands, Nairobi, Kenya. Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with. On Wed, Apr 3, 2019 at 5:06 PM Jimmy Gitonga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I think Ali is being “clever” like the proverbial hare.
Honestly, we need to stop looking at everything the West, including their vile practices, as gospel truth. Taking on interns, with the sole intention of getting unpaid labour, even if it is the "sneaker network" that gets you coffee is despicable. The intern, no matter how enterprising, will be used and dumped.
*"Why would a rational employer - whose goal is to maximise margins (within a very difficult / hostile business environment) - be interested in paying an experienced ex-intern, when they can simply get a fresh unpaid intern for free, train them within hours or a couple of days, even as other unpaids hold the temporary slack? This where we are headed - if not there already. The youth are "working" but they are still technically unemployed because they are not earning a living."*
If getting “ahead" means bowing down to the "scacity mentality” idol and the stepping on people is one’s business success mantra, may that business perish and it’s “rational” employer perish.
Please note, we are not talking about the graduate who feels entitled to get paid internship, no. Those kinds of people will always be weeded out by the system. Their attitude alone is their undoing. We are talking about the ones with little to no social advantage of networks of family or friends who can supoort unpaid internship.
This is where our Africans, “Utu ni watu”, “Ubuntu” and “I am because we are” comes in.
Best Regards, *Jimmy Gitonga*
*Web Software Design and Development * *LinkedIn: Jimmy Gitonga | Twitter: @Afrowave* ______________________________________
*Web*: afroshok.com
On 3 Apr 2019, at 3:15 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
Many thanks for your thoughts Ali.? Indeed, words in most languages can have multiple, totally unrelated, meanings (e.g. "saw" the noun/hardware, "saw" the verb/cutting, and "saw" the past tense of "see"... or in Swahili "paka" the cat vs "paka" as in to paint) so in this case the appropriate focus would be on the vocation-oriented definition of "intern" (though I can see material for contextual innuendo in the two meanings hehe).
Some well known intellectuals on twitter are getting stuck on written definitions and relying on logical fallacies which is not intellectually sincere. Are definitions cast in stone? Can they have a shelf-life? Don't they change with time??
Fact: Definitions only document meaning as it evolves over time; they are not the source of meaning. The general rule of thumb is that Informality precedes formality. Thankfully the etymology (origin of a word and the historical development of its meaning) of "intern" shows that the meaning and usage, in professional context, has indeed been evolving.
According to an online source (link below), the term is believed to have been documented as a noun circa 1879 for the teaching and medical professions, and then extended to other profesions around 1963. It was formally recognize as a verb circa 1933 within the medical field. Prior to that, and going back as far as medieval times (in western cultures), people learned through apprenticeships and although you did not get "paid" in the narrow sense of the term, your boss provided you with free *accommodation* and *food*. Such contextual nuances around the apprenticeship system are (conveniently) ignored by advocates of unpaid internships.
In African culture (link below), apprenticeship was a very POSITIVE community experience. People had EMPATHY for one another and collective gains were favored over individual gains. Not caring whether someone had food or a safe place to sleep was unheard of. Lets face it, cold blooded, greed motivated exploitation of the youth within a community is an alien concept in most (if not all) of pre-colonial Africa.?
In traditional China and (I believe) India the apprentice is technically "adopted" and the relationship is parent - child, but in vocational context. There is mutual love, concern and caring even if the apprentice is treated harshly. It never crosses over to predation.
We are Africans. Unless we want to give up our core identity, the quest for meaning in everything we do (and the policies we support) has to be done within the context of our Africanness. Even as we adopt poitive aspects of foreign cultures in a cosmopolitan world, we can strive to retain the best aspects of our indigenous cultures. For example if the industrialized world had emulated positive African philosophies like simple contented living in harmony with nature, we would not have existential problems like climate change, WMDs, world wars, economic inequality and so on.?
Imported meanings are not rules cast in stone. We can, if we want to, define our own modern, African, definition of the word "intern" in a way that that protects our youth from abuse and exploitation.?
The youth are our children and our future. Let us not raise a generation of bitter, angry and resentful people. It's not a smart thing to do. Thanks & have a great day!
Patrick. Patrick A. M. Maina[Cross Domain Innovator | Independent Public Policy Analyst - Indigenous Innovations] Links: 1. Etymology of the word "intern":https://www.etymonline.com/word/intern
2. Traditional apprenticeship in Africahttps://www.academia.edu/11682853/Revisiting_the_role_of_traditional_apprent...
3. Weird history of internshiphttps://www.businessinsider.com/the-weird-history-of-how-internships-came-to...
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hapo sawa Brathe, :-D I think what we are really asking is a societal question. Unpaid internships are not illegal. Swopping out internship with apprenticeship does not answer the underlying question. Why should internships be paid for? The answer is a social impact one, not a business one. It being construed as a business decision is what people are up in arms about. Internship is a "giving back", "paying forward” or “leg up" kind of thing. Who should pay for interns to flourish in private organisations? Should the company pay for the labour? Should the intern pay for the opportunity and experience?? Who owes who? With the best regards, Jimmy Gitonga
On 4 Apr 2019, at 11:23 AM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Jimmy
Let me be clear and remove my 'cleverness' :-)
My deep conviction is this:-
We are bucking the wrong tree. Let's go back to the basics. Let's redefine what an internship/apprenticeship means. Firstly, let's accept that the internship concept has been so bastardized that it has lost meaning. I would like at this point to replace internship with apprenticeship. Apprenticeship used to mean:-
A person who is learning a trade from a skilled employer, having agreed to work for a fixed period at low wages.
Let us have candid conversations around changing mindsets - both from a corporate perspective and an internee/apprentice perspective.
Regards
Ali Hussein Principal AHK & Associates
Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Road, Westlands, Nairobi, Kenya.
Any information of a personal nature
Jimmy I encourage you to read my email again. You seem to have missed my point. :-) Regards *Ali Hussein* *Principal* *AHK & Associates* Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Road, Westlands, Nairobi, Kenya. Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with. On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 3:24 PM Jimmy Gitonga <jimmygitts@gmail.com> wrote:
Hapo sawa Brathe, :-D
I think what we are really asking is a societal question. Unpaid internships are not illegal. Swopping out internship with apprenticeship does not answer the underlying question.
Why should internships be paid for? The answer is a social impact one, not a business one. It being construed as a business decision is what people are up in arms about. Internship is a "giving back", "paying forward” or “leg up" kind of thing.
Who should pay for interns to flourish in private organisations? Should the company pay for the labour? Should the intern pay for the opportunity and experience?? Who owes who?
With the best regards, *Jimmy Gitonga*
On 4 Apr 2019, at 11:23 AM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Jimmy
Let me be clear and remove my 'cleverness' :-)
My deep conviction is this:-
We are bucking the wrong tree. Let's go back to the basics. Let's redefine what an internship/apprenticeship means. Firstly, let's accept that the internship concept has been so bastardized that it has lost meaning. I would like at this point to replace internship with apprenticeship. Apprenticeship used to mean:-
*A person who is learning a trade from a skilled employer, having agreed to work for a fixed period at low wages.*
Let us have candid conversations around changing mindsets - both from a corporate perspective and an internee/apprentice perspective.
Regards
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *AHK & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Road, Westlands, Nairobi, Kenya.
Any information of a personal nature
Ali, "Let us have candid conversations around changing mindsets - both from a corporate perspective and an internee/apprentice perspective.” is what you said and my "Swopping out internship with apprenticeship does not answer the underlying question.” did not convey that I was agreeing with you. I accept that. So to get to having candid conversations around changing mindsets, I asked the questions; Who should pay for interns to flourish in private organisations? Should the company pay for the labour? Should the intern pay for the opportunity and experience?? Who owes who? Best Regards, Jimmy Gitonga Web Software Design and Development LinkedIn: Jimmy Gitonga | Twitter: @Afrowave ______________________________________ Web: afroshok.com <http://afroshok.com/>
On 4 Apr 2019, at 4:35 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Jimmy
I encourage you to read my email again. You seem to have missed my point. :-)
Regards
Ali Hussein Principal AHK & Associates
Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Road, Westlands, Nairobi, Kenya.
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 3:24 PM Jimmy Gitonga <jimmygitts@gmail.com <mailto:jimmygitts@gmail.com>> wrote: Hapo sawa Brathe, :-D
I think what we are really asking is a societal question. Unpaid internships are not illegal. Swopping out internship with apprenticeship does not answer the underlying question.
Why should internships be paid for? The answer is a social impact one, not a business one. It being construed as a business decision is what people are up in arms about. Internship is a "giving back", "paying forward” or “leg up" kind of thing.
Who should pay for interns to flourish in private organisations? Should the company pay for the labour? Should the intern pay for the opportunity and experience?? Who owes who?
With the best regards, Jimmy Gitonga
On 4 Apr 2019, at 11:23 AM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke <mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke>> wrote:
Jimmy
Let me be clear and remove my 'cleverness' :-)
My deep conviction is this:-
We are bucking the wrong tree. Let's go back to the basics. Let's redefine what an internship/apprenticeship means. Firstly, let's accept that the internship concept has been so bastardized that it has lost meaning. I would like at this point to replace internship with apprenticeship. Apprenticeship used to mean:-
A person who is learning a trade from a skilled employer, having agreed to work for a fixed period at low wages.
Let us have candid conversations around changing mindsets - both from a corporate perspective and an internee/apprentice perspective.
Regards
Ali Hussein Principal AHK & Associates
Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Road, Westlands, Nairobi, Kenya.
Any information of a personal nature
Jimmy Before we discuss pay let's rather discuss the concept of apprenticeship and internship. Let's go back to the basics, way back when being an apprentice was something to be proud of. You were learning a trade. You were learning to be disciplined. You were learning to be a part of society. And society had a responsibility to you much like you had a responsibility to society. The ecosystem to enable comprised Universities, National and Village Polytechnics. The apprentices included graduates, Diploma Holders etc. The system is broken. Employers are misusing the system. Interns are misusing the systems. Society watches helplessly. This is the conversation we must have. Pay should be part of the bigger picture. Focusing on pay alone is missing the point. Regards * Ali Hussein* *Principal* *AHK & Associates* Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Road, Westlands, Nairobi, Kenya. Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with. On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 2:04 PM Jimmy Gitonga <jimmygitts@gmail.com> wrote:
Ali,
"Let us have candid conversations around changing mindsets - both from a corporate perspective and an internee/apprentice perspective.” is what you said and my "Swopping out internship with apprenticeship does not answer the underlying question.” did not convey that I was agreeing with you. I accept that.
So to get to having candid conversations around changing mindsets, I asked the questions; Who should pay for interns to flourish in private organisations? Should the company pay for the labour? Should the intern pay for the opportunity and experience?? Who owes who?
Best Regards, *Jimmy Gitonga*
*Web Software Design and Development * *LinkedIn: Jimmy Gitonga | Twitter: @Afrowave* ______________________________________
*Web*: afroshok.com
On 4 Apr 2019, at 4:35 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Jimmy
I encourage you to read my email again. You seem to have missed my point. :-)
Regards
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *AHK & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Road, Westlands, Nairobi, Kenya.
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 3:24 PM Jimmy Gitonga <jimmygitts@gmail.com> wrote:
Hapo sawa Brathe, :-D
I think what we are really asking is a societal question. Unpaid internships are not illegal. Swopping out internship with apprenticeship does not answer the underlying question.
Why should internships be paid for? The answer is a social impact one, not a business one. It being construed as a business decision is what people are up in arms about. Internship is a "giving back", "paying forward” or “leg up" kind of thing.
Who should pay for interns to flourish in private organisations? Should the company pay for the labour? Should the intern pay for the opportunity and experience?? Who owes who?
With the best regards, *Jimmy Gitonga*
On 4 Apr 2019, at 11:23 AM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Jimmy
Let me be clear and remove my 'cleverness' :-)
My deep conviction is this:-
We are bucking the wrong tree. Let's go back to the basics. Let's redefine what an internship/apprenticeship means. Firstly, let's accept that the internship concept has been so bastardized that it has lost meaning. I would like at this point to replace internship with apprenticeship. Apprenticeship used to mean:-
*A person who is learning a trade from a skilled employer, having agreed to work for a fixed period at low wages.*
Let us have candid conversations around changing mindsets - both from a corporate perspective and an internee/apprentice perspective.
Regards
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *AHK & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Road, Westlands, Nairobi, Kenya.
Any information of a personal nature
Internships are a learning experience and should be paid for in the same fashion we pay for education. The moment you get admission to intern for three or so months in a company; that company becomes a learning institution - systems have to adjust to accommodate you, someone has to be in charge of supervising you at the expense of doing their daily duties. If the learning that goes on today in our colleges is anything to go by most interns are half baked and very labourious to mentor and train. They therefore owe the company and should pay for the opportunity they are getting. On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 3:42 PM Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Jimmy
Before we discuss pay let's rather discuss the concept of apprenticeship and internship. Let's go back to the basics, way back when being an apprentice was something to be proud of. You were learning a trade. You were learning to be disciplined. You were learning to be a part of society. And society had a responsibility to you much like you had a responsibility to society. The ecosystem to enable comprised Universities, National and Village Polytechnics. The apprentices included graduates, Diploma Holders etc.
The system is broken.
Employers are misusing the system. Interns are misusing the systems. Society watches helplessly.
This is the conversation we must have. Pay should be part of the bigger picture. Focusing on pay alone is missing the point.
Regards
* Ali Hussein*
*Principal*
*AHK & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
Chiromo Road, Westlands,
Nairobi, Kenya.
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 2:04 PM Jimmy Gitonga <jimmygitts@gmail.com> wrote:
Ali,
"Let us have candid conversations around changing mindsets - both from a corporate perspective and an internee/apprentice perspective.” is what you said and my "Swopping out internship with apprenticeship does not answer the underlying question.” did not convey that I was agreeing with you. I accept that.
So to get to having candid conversations around changing mindsets, I asked the questions; Who should pay for interns to flourish in private organisations? Should the company pay for the labour? Should the intern pay for the opportunity and experience?? Who owes who?
Best Regards, *Jimmy Gitonga*
*Web Software Design and Development * *LinkedIn: Jimmy Gitonga | Twitter: @Afrowave* ______________________________________
*Web*: afroshok.com
On 4 Apr 2019, at 4:35 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Jimmy
I encourage you to read my email again. You seem to have missed my point. :-)
Regards
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *AHK & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Road, Westlands, Nairobi, Kenya.
Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 3:24 PM Jimmy Gitonga <jimmygitts@gmail.com> wrote:
Hapo sawa Brathe, :-D
I think what we are really asking is a societal question. Unpaid internships are not illegal. Swopping out internship with apprenticeship does not answer the underlying question.
Why should internships be paid for? The answer is a social impact one, not a business one. It being construed as a business decision is what people are up in arms about. Internship is a "giving back", "paying forward” or “leg up" kind of thing.
Who should pay for interns to flourish in private organisations? Should the company pay for the labour? Should the intern pay for the opportunity and experience?? Who owes who?
With the best regards, *Jimmy Gitonga*
On 4 Apr 2019, at 11:23 AM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:
Jimmy
Let me be clear and remove my 'cleverness' :-)
My deep conviction is this:-
We are bucking the wrong tree. Let's go back to the basics. Let's redefine what an internship/apprenticeship means. Firstly, let's accept that the internship concept has been so bastardized that it has lost meaning. I would like at this point to replace internship with apprenticeship. Apprenticeship used to mean:-
*A person who is learning a trade from a skilled employer, having agreed to work for a fixed period at low wages.*
Let us have candid conversations around changing mindsets - both from a corporate perspective and an internee/apprentice perspective.
Regards
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *AHK & Associates*
Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Road, Westlands, Nairobi, Kenya.
Any information of a personal nature
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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True Jimmy, this is a deeply social issue that goes right to the core of our values as Africans and human beings. It is not about definitions. It's about the social contract that we, parents, teachers, government, community leaders, politicians, religious leaders... offered to your youth - that if they stayed in school, worked hard, avoided crime/drugs etc and made good grades, they would come out with a special pass for good jobs and unbounded opportunities. We even made a song about it: "Someni Vijana, Muongeze pia bidii, Mwisho wa kusoma, Mtapata kazi nzuri sana." That was the deal! Education + Good grades = Good Jobs. We took (and are still taking) their parent's money, shackled both parents and children with life-long loans while promising them that what they were studying is relevant to what the industry needs and can absorb. Even though at some point we realized that it was all a lie, we still keep doing it. To rub salt to injury, we penalize our children for unpaid loans - but whose fault is it that there are no jobs? The youth were busy locked up in school - whose responsibility was it to create jobs? Was it not ours? We feel smart when we offer them slave wages (so we can hit our "cost saving" KPIs + bonus) and, whenever we can, we exploit them as free labor, forgetting that these are our own children we are misusing. Demand-supply dynamics, right? Whose fault is it that there is oversupply? Something to think about as we use theoretical constructs to justify cold blooded predation on our own children in the name of profits. We never tell our children that most opportunities are reserved for the privileged - instead, we lie to them that merit counts - and they believe us. We have stolen our children's childhood by sending them on a fools errand; we have demanded that they give up on life's unique one-time experiences - like play, fun, outings, passions and hobbies so they can study for a job that we know will never be. No university or college student burnt the midnight oil believing that they would find themselves competing alongside std. 8 leavers or at the mercy of white collar criminals... and when they call us out on this, we have the audacity to accuse them of "entitlement". Really? We never told our youth, when they were in school, that the real secret to getting a job quickly nowadays is to grovel, beg and humiliate themselves on roadsides or social media in order to get PR offers from the government (for a position that should have been competitively advertised - as required by law) or from companies that would have otherwise rejected their sincere application for merit-based consideration. Perhaps grovelling and begging should have been in the syllabus. What does it do to someone's self esteem to know that it is pity, favoritism, and sometimes illegalities (not hard work or good grades), that finally got them the opportunity that society had promised? We have breached our contract with our children. It was (and still is) our duty to create opportunities for them - but we still want to pass the buck and ask them to create their own jobs and opportunities. Wake up! Corruption, mismanagement, nepotism, incompetence, retrogressive policies... all that happened on our watch. We are the problem! We must accept this. Our youth are not entitled. They don't have unrealistic expectations. All they are asking for is for society to deliver its end of the bargain. Where are the jobs that were promised in the social contract? Where are the merit-based opportunities? Where is the institutionalized connection between merit / sweat equity and success? All is not lost though. Although we have been sleeping on the job, it is now time to wake up, apologize to our children, get back to work and fulfill our end of the bargain; our duty as society. We must create adequate opportunities for the youth by architecting and implementing smart, results oriented, evidence based, jobs creation and pro-posperity policies covering all sectors. The jobs we create should match most of the skills being generated by our TVETS and universities and should provide a dignified source of livelihood and decent quality of life for most (not a few) Kenyans. The jobs created should be real, visible, dignified and independently verifiable (not random "estimates" made by plucking numbers out of the air). That should be the thing that occupies our minds 24x7x365. Let us join hands and fulfill our end of the bargain. We made a promise to our children, let us keep it please. Brgds,Patrick. Patrick A. M. Maina [Cross Domain Innovator | Independent Public Policy Analyst - Indigenous Innovations] On Thursday, April 4, 2019, 3:25:48 PM GMT+3, Jimmy Gitonga via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Hapo sawa Brathe, :-D I think what we are really asking is a societal question. Unpaid internships are not illegal. Swopping out internship with apprenticeship does not answer the underlying question. Why should internships be paid for? The answer is a social impact one, not a business one. It being construed as a business decision is what people are up in arms about. Internship is a "giving back", "paying forward” or “leg up" kind of thing. Who should pay for interns to flourish in private organisations? Should the company pay for the labour? Should the intern pay for the opportunity and experience?? Who owes who? With the best regards,Jimmy Gitonga On 4 Apr 2019, at 11:23 AM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Jimmy Let me be clear and remove my 'cleverness' :-) My deep conviction is this:- We are bucking the wrong tree. Let's go back to the basics. Let's redefine what an internship/apprenticeship means. Firstly, let's accept that the internship concept has been so bastardized that it has lost meaning. I would like at this point to replace internship with apprenticeship. Apprenticeship used to mean:- A person who is learning a trade from a skilled employer, having agreed to work for a fixed period at low wages. Let us have candid conversations around changing mindsets - both from a corporate perspective and an internee/apprentice perspective. Regards Ali HusseinPrincipalAHK & Associates Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassimSkype: abu-jomoLinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,Chiromo Road, Westlands,Nairobi, Kenya. Any information of a personal nature _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pmaina2000%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (4)
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Ali Hussein -
Amos Ochieng -
Jimmy Gitonga -
Patrick A. M. Maina