Dear Brian Do you believe that ISPs in Kenya are sufficiently competitive to keep prices fair? I am just asking. I really do not know. What about the concern people have expressed that KDN has dropped prices dramatically to ISPs, but consumers are not seeing the benefit. By the way, it is WONDERFUL to hear from you! Rigia On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com>wrote:

Good point Warigia and the same applies here - CCK can and have exercised their authority to regulate voice pricing - this is especially true when there is either a monopoly or an operator with significant market share.

The same does not apply to market sectors like Internet services because there is full competition and never any player with significant market share. In the USA - FCC have never regulated Internet or bandwidth pricing as market forces generally accomplish this.

Best regards,

Brian

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:11 AM, warigia bowman <warigia@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Dear colleagues

Rates of operators can and have been regulated, In fact, in the United States we had something called rate of return regulation when ATT was a monopoly. They were allowed to charge a high rate, but in exchange, they had to ensure every tiny village of even 200 had phone service. Why can't our operators do that? Sincerely, Warigia

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

Alex,

Your have rightly qaulified your solution - as simple. Indeed it is. Infact too simplistic to fly. The idea that the Regulator can reign in Operators who charge "high" internet rates cannot and will not work. Think about the in-famous SAT3 fiber link on the west coast of africa. Ask yourself why the Regulators in Nigeria, Ghana, Cameroon, Angola, S-Africa etc have never stepped in and revoked licensces of operators over the last 15yrs of high internet costs offered on the fiber...

The answers are very complex...I will actually be discussing these limitations and available interventions in some upcoming ICT conference at Strath University in Sept 09 and I dont want to pre-empt ;-)....

walu.

--- On Fri, 8/14/09, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:

...

From: Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Fwd: the long fibre lie... Ndemo should resign if internet prices do not drop as he promised!! To: "Skunkworks forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 8:44 PM On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:38 PM, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd<kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Set the precedence what's your solution? Am sure if

you did we'd have

...

heard it by now. This thread is a knee jerk reaction to a bad internet day, we all have one.

Simple, the entity under Ndemo's docket that grants these cowboy operators licenses puts it's foot down and warn that I may revoke licenses for operators that charge waaaay up in the sky not just above cost but ABOVE acceptable international pricing benchmarks. They've all the data they need. Imagine, for example, Safaricom on the verge of losing their license, price drops, drops, drops, drops, drops, and drops..... across board.

Would this be acceptable to you? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: warigia@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/warigia%40gmail.com

-- Dr. Warigia Bowman Assistant Professor The Department of Public Policy Leadership The University of Mississippi 107 Odom Hall University, MS 38677

URL: http://www.olemiss.edu/depts/leadership/index.html PHONE: 662-915-1904 EMAIL: mwbowman@olemiss.edu

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com

-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com

-- Dr. Warigia Bowman Assistant Professor The Department of Public Policy Leadership The University of Mississippi 107 Odom Hall University, MS 38677 URL: http://www.olemiss.edu/depts/leadership/index.html PHONE: 662-915-1904 EMAIL: mwbowman@olemiss.edu

Warigia, Below message to consumers and skunkworks lists sparked the heated discussions. On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:11 AM, Alex Gakuru<gakuru@gmail.com> wrote:

What a long optics fibre lie the whole thing was...

---Business Daily---

"we do not anticipate that [Internet] prices will drop as drastically as initially indicated or within a short time-frame"

<http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Company%20Industry/-/539550/639386/-/u8ardrz/-/index.html>

"..it was planning to implement an immediate 24 per cent discount on its internet charges and promised higher discounts once connections to international fibre optic links went live by the end of next month.."

<http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Company%20Industry/-/539550/638808/-/u8bcyoz/-/index.html>

---summary--- in short, consumers are going to continue being ripped-off while a just too comfortable "hands-off" government sits back pretentiously expecting "market-forces" to push prices down -

The way I see it? we have several options a) to demand government officers( Ndemo & Co.) who promised cheap internet to resign, b) demand regulator to wake up and proactively set the prices c) continue living in a denial and that,hopefully, one day we will have "affordable" internet in Kenya.

Where is Bitange Ndemo and and why did he lie to us and raised Kenyans' hopes for cheap internet? we shall have serious problems to believe anything he promises henceforth. He should resign if internet prices do not go down as he promised.

And who runs this country anyway? telecommunication companies or the government and the regulator?

Alex _______________________________________________ ke-internetusers mailing list ke-internetusers@bdix.net http://www.bdix.net/mailman/listinfo/ke-internetusers

Waundo, Kenya current problem not that old one, its different and it is "failed telecommunications market liberarisation." " 3.4. Most rural areas still do not have Internet access despite the fact that there are many licensed ISPs. Additionally, the quality of service has not improved. Isn’t there a need to make provisions to enable rural access and enforce Service Level Agreements (SLAs) to guarantee quality of service? The licensed operators present said that the major factors hindering their rollout to the rural areas are: o High cost of connectivity offered by carriers. Competition has been used, as a means to lower prices however there seems to be no correlation between the cost and the number of players in the market. The licensing of more players in the IG&BO and PDNO licence has not translated to lower access costs. o Competition may also be used as a means to improving quality of service delivery and encourage the use of Service Level Agreements (SLA). This however has not been evident in the Kenyan market. o Finally, competition should result in increased access and availability to telecommunication service and infrastructure. However, since rural areas are not economically viable, most operators concentrate operations in urban centres." <http://www.cck.go.ke/isp_stakeholders.pdf> The question begs... What are the Ministry of Information and Communications and the Regulator actually doing to ensure that consumers benefit? For further erodes hopes, if not adds insult to consumers injuries, to read on today's Business Daily "BUYOUT CCK says local ownership rule waived to allow foreign investor own more than 80 p.c" Could some people in government actually responsible and/or prefer the statu-quo to remain? Now is the time to ask some of these hard questions- "academics" aside! Alex On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:28 PM, waudo siganga<emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:

Hi Warigia - First sorry for missing ur big day due to some other commitment I had. I do not believe governments or governmental agencies should set consumer prices on anything. That is the work of market forces through competition. What governments need to do is ensure an environment that fosters competition. The example of ATT is from the old days when ATT was a monopoly operator. It reminds me of the 1998 Kenya Communications Act that gave monopoly status to Telkom Kenya in provision of some services such as landlines in Nairobi and international telephony. The mistaken rationale was that Telkom would rake in some "super profits" which would in turn be utilised in universal access provision. Needless to say those objectives were never attained. All along we prodded the Government to free the market through competition and private sector investment. When this happend as in the case of the mobile telephony sector the results in terms of better and more afrordable services were quick to manifest. Our argument in the case of universal access was that it was better for the Government to allow freedom in the market and then use fiscal instruments to raise funds from the IMPROVED, EXPANDED and CHEAPER  services. This is being done today through a 10% excise tax on airtime and, believe me, most users do not even notice it.

With the marine fibre I noticed what looked like cross-ownership and cross-interest in the different ventures and maybe that can have an effect on the competitive environment necessary to bring prices down significantly.

Kind Regards, Waudo

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:21 +0300, "warigia bowman" <warigia@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Brian

Do you believe that ISPs in Kenya are sufficiently competitive to keep prices fair? I am just asking. I really do not know.

What about the concern people have expressed that KDN has dropped prices dramatically to ISPs, but consumers are not seeing the benefit.

By the way, it is WONDERFUL to hear from you!

Rigia

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> wrote:

Good point Warigia and the same applies here - CCK can and have exercised their authority to regulate voice pricing - this is especially true when there is either a monopoly or an operator with significant market share.

The same does not apply to market sectors like Internet services because there is full competition and never any player with significant market share. In the USA - FCC have never regulated Internet or bandwidth pricing as market forces generally accomplish this.

Best regards,

Brian

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:11 AM, warigia bowman <warigia@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear colleagues

Rates of operators can and have been regulated, In fact, in the United States we had something called rate of return regulation when ATT was a monopoly. They were allowed to charge a high rate, but in exchange, they had to ensure every tiny village of even 200 had phone service. Why can't our operators do that?

Sincerely, Warigia

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

Alex,

Your have rightly qaulified your solution - as simple.  Indeed it is. Infact too simplistic to fly.  The idea that the Regulator can reign in Operators who charge "high" internet rates cannot and will not work.  Think about the in-famous SAT3 fiber link on the west coast of africa.  Ask yourself why the Regulators in Nigeria, Ghana, Cameroon, Angola, S-Africa etc have never  stepped in and revoked licensces of operators over the last 15yrs of high internet costs offered on the fiber...

The answers are very complex...I will actually be discussing these limitations and available interventions in some upcoming ICT conference at Strath University in Sept 09 and I dont want to pre-empt ;-)....

walu.

--- On Fri, 8/14/09, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:

...

From: Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Fwd: the long fibre lie... Ndemo should resign if internet prices do not drop as he promised!! To: "Skunkworks forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 8:44 PM On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:38 PM, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd<kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Set the precedence what's your  solution? Am sure if

you did we'd have

...

heard it by now. This thread is a knee jerk reaction to a bad internet day, we all have one.

Simple, the entity under Ndemo's docket that grants these cowboy operators licenses puts it's foot down and warn that I may revoke licenses for operators that charge waaaay up in the sky not just above cost but ABOVE acceptable international pricing benchmarks. They've all the data they need. Imagine, for example, Safaricom on the verge of losing their license, price drops, drops, drops, drops, drops, and drops..... across board.

Would this be acceptable to you? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science:  http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi:     http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: warigia@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/warigia%40gmail.com

-- Dr. Warigia Bowman Assistant Professor The Department of Public Policy Leadership The University of Mississippi 107 Odom Hall University, MS 38677

URL: http://www.olemiss.edu/depts/leadership/index.html PHONE: 662-915-1904 EMAIL: mwbowman@olemiss.edu

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com

-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell:  + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com

-- Dr. Warigia Bowman Assistant Professor The Department of Public Policy Leadership The University of Mississippi 107 Odom Hall University, MS 38677

URL: http://www.olemiss.edu/depts/leadership/index.html PHONE: 662-915-1904 EMAIL: mwbowman@olemiss.edu

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alexgakuru.lists%40gmai...

If the WASC experience is anythng to go by falling prices are not guaranteed simply by the presence of increased bandwidth! Cheers, FE (Still alive, kicking and yes lurking!) Florence Etta PhD Telephone: Nairobi Mobile: +254-733-621-851 New York Rez: +1-917-639-3691 Canada Rez: +1-613-232-2729 Alternative Email:florence.etta@gmail.com ________________________________ From: warigia bowman <warigia@gmail.com> To: feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 18 August, 2009 7:02:56 Subject: Re: [kictanet] the long fibre lie...Regulatory Action limited. Dear Alex I share your frustration about the high prices and low bandwidth. My bamba is still slow. I too believe consumers are not getting a fair deal. That being said, in Ndemo's defense, he is one of the most honest and hardworking PSes I have met in my research so far in this beautiful country of ours, across many different sectors. In terms of roles, the PS is the implementer, whereas the Minister is the policy "maker." Although lets be honest, Ndemo often does most of his bosses work, while not getting the credit, or the paycheck . . . I think your ire, while very justified, should be directed at the Ministers, and at the companies, particularly Safaricom and Zain. Yours, Warigia On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:

Warigia,

...

Below message to consumers and skunkworks lists sparked the heated discussions.

...

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:11 AM, Alex Gakuru<gakuru@gmail.com> wrote:

...

What a long optics fibre lie the whole thing was...

---Business Daily---

"we do not anticipate that [Internet] prices will drop as drastically as initially indicated or within a short time-frame"

<http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Company%20Industry/-/539550/639386/-/u8ardrz/-/index.html>

...

"..it was planning to implement an immediate 24 per cent discount on its internet charges and promised higher discounts once connections to international fibre optic links went live by the end of next month.."

<http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Company%20Industry/-/539550/638808/-/u8bcyoz/-/index.html>

...

---summary--- in short, consumers are going to continue being ripped-off while a just too comfortable "hands-off" government sits back pretentiously expecting "market-forces" to push prices down -

The way I see it? we have several options a) to demand government officers( Ndemo & Co.) who promised cheap internet to resign, b) demand regulator to wake up and proactively set the prices c) continue living in a denial and that,hopefully, one day we will have "affordable" internet in Kenya.

Where is Bitange Ndemo and and why did he lie to us and raised Kenyans' hopes for cheap internet? we shall have serious problems to believe anything he promises henceforth. He should resign if internet prices do not go down as he promised.

And who runs this country anyway? telecommunication companies or the government and the regulator?

Alex _______________________________________________ ke-internetusers mailing list ke-internetusers@bdix.net http://www.bdix.net/mailman/listinfo/ke-internetusers

...

Waundo,

...

Kenya current problem not that old one, its different and it is "failed telecommunications market liberarisation."

...

" 3.4. Most rural areas still do not have Internet access despite the fact that there are many licensed ISPs. Additionally, the quality of service has not improved. Isn’t there a need to make provisions to enable rural access and enforce Service Level Agreements (SLAs) to guarantee quality of service? The licensed operators present said that the major factors hindering their rollout to the rural areas are: o High cost of connectivity offered by carriers. Competition has been used, as a means to lower prices however there seems to be no correlation between the cost and the number of players in the market. The licensing of more players in the IG&BO and PDNO licence has not translated to lower access costs. o Competition may also be used as a means to improving quality of service delivery and encourage the use of Service Level Agreements (SLA). This however has not been evident in the Kenyan market. o Finally, competition should result in increased access and availability to telecommunication service and infrastructure. However, since rural areas are not economically viable, most operators concentrate operations in urban centres."

...

<http://www.cck.go.ke/isp_stakeholders.pdf>

...

The question begs... What are the Ministry of Information and Communications and the Regulator actually doing to ensure that consumers benefit?

...

For further erodes hopes, if not adds insult to consumers injuries, to read on today's Business Daily "BUYOUT CCK says local ownership rule waived to allow foreign investor own more than 80 p.c"

...

Could some people in government actually responsible and/or prefer the statu-quo to remain? Now is the time to ask some of these hard questions- "academics" aside!

...

Alex

...

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:28 PM, waudo siganga<emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:

...

Hi Warigia - First sorry for missing ur big day due to some other commitment I had. I do not believe governments or governmental agencies should set consumer prices on anything. That is the work of market forces through competition. What governments need to do is ensure an environment that fosters competition. The example of ATT is from the old days when ATT was a monopoly operator. It reminds me of the 1998 Kenya Communications Act that gave monopoly status to Telkom Kenya in provision of some services such as landlines in Nairobi and international telephony. The mistaken rationale was that Telkom would rake in some "super profits" which would in turn be utilised in universal access provision. Needless to say those objectives were never attained. All along we prodded the Government to free the market through competition and private sector investment. When this happend as in the case of the mobile telephony sector the results in terms of better and more afrordable services were quick to manifest. Our argument in the case of universal access was that it was better for the Government to allow freedom in the market and then use fiscal instruments to raise funds from the IMPROVED, EXPANDED and CHEAPER services. This is being done today through a 10% excise tax on airtime and, believe me, most users do not even notice it.

With the marine fibre I noticed what looked like cross-ownership and cross-interest in the different ventures and maybe that can have an effect on the competitive environment necessary to bring prices down significantly.

Kind Regards, Waudo

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:21 +0300, "warigia bowman" <warigia@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Brian

Do you believe that ISPs in Kenya are sufficiently competitive to keep prices fair? I am just asking. I really do not know.

What about the concern people have expressed that KDN has dropped prices dramatically to ISPs, but consumers are not seeing the benefit.

By the way, it is WONDERFUL to hear from you!

Rigia

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> wrote:

Good point Warigia and the same applies here - CCK can and have exercised their authority to regulate voice pricing - this is especially true when there is either a monopoly or an operator with significant market share.

The same does not apply to market sectors like Internet services because there is full competition and never any player with significant market share. In the USA - FCC have never regulated Internet or bandwidth pricing as market forces generally accomplish this.

Best regards,

Brian

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:11 AM, warigia bowman <warigia@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear colleagues

Rates of operators can and have been regulated, In fact, in the United States we had something called rate of return regulation when ATT was a monopoly. They were allowed to charge a high rate, but in exchange, they had to ensure every tiny village of even 200 had phone service. Why can't our operators do that?

Sincerely, Warigia

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

Alex,

Your have rightly qaulified your solution - as simple. Indeed it is. Infact too simplistic to fly. The idea that the Regulator can reign in Operators who charge "high" internet rates cannot and will not work. Think about the in-famous SAT3 fiber link on the west coast of africa. Ask yourself why the Regulators in Nigeria, Ghana, Cameroon, Angola, S-Africa etc have never stepped in and revoked licensces of operators over the last 15yrs of high internet costs offered on the fiber...

The answers are very complex...I will actually be discussing these limitations and available interventions in some upcoming ICT conference at Strath University in Sept 09 and I dont want to pre-empt ;-)....

walu.

--- On Fri, 8/14/09, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:

...

From: Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Fwd: the long fibre lie... Ndemo should resign if internet prices do not drop as he promised!! To: "Skunkworks forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 8:44 PM On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:38 PM, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd<kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Set the precedence what's your solution? Am sure if

you did we'd have

...

heard it by now. This thread is a knee jerk reaction to a bad internet day, we all have one.

Simple, the entity under Ndemo's docket that grants these cowboy operators licenses puts it's foot down and warn that I may revoke licenses for operators that charge waaaay up in the sky not just above cost but ABOVE acceptable international pricing benchmarks. They've all the data they need. Imagine, for example, Safaricom on the verge of losing their license, price drops, drops, drops, drops, drops, and drops..... across board.

Would this be acceptable to you? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

-- Dr. Warigia Bowman Assistant Professor The Department of Public Policy Leadership The University of Mississippi 107 Odom Hall University, MS 38677

URL: http://www.olemiss.edu/depts/leadership/index.html PHONE: 662-915-1904 EMAIL: mwbowman@olemiss.edu

Hi Tom, This is where I sneak into the debate and salute you! Is there a investor in SEACOM or TEAMS that would differ with the submission as a reason to significantly lower internet access rates? KDN are charging $600 for a 1MB/1MB link over fibre and $300 for 512K/512K. That is a significant drop because *25,000/= *is what you'd be paying for a 512k/512k instead of 125,000/= per month if you had 512/512 on some unnamed ISP a few months ago. I do not really believe we should be debating whether or not there will be an immediate drop. It is clear that an immediate drop has happened with some providers. Maybe we should just move to the provider capable to passing the gains we have for so long fought for....business/economic arguments and analogies aside. Regards, Wainaina On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Maliti, Tom <tmaliti@ap.org> wrote:

Hi,

Assuming all things remain equal, here's a line from this year's budget speech that suggests, at the least, ISPs should be bringing down prices as well as offering bigger bundles:

****************************** First, *Mr. Speaker, *The East African Marine System Ltd (Teams) and Seacom Kenya Ltd

have invested heavily in under sea fibre optic cables, whose completion and full deployment is

expected to reduce significantly the cost of communication in our country. In addition to other

measures which the Government has so far taken to encourage such investment and to further

encourage the uptake of this facility by the internet service providers and other intermediaries, I

propose:

(i) To allow the internet service providers to offset against their taxable income the cost

incurred in acquiring the right to use the fibre optic cable over a period of twenty years;

(ii) To increase wear and tear on telecommunication equipment including the fibre optic cable

from 12.5% to 20%;

(iii) To provide tax deduction of 5% on computer software.

********************************* May be we need to look at things from a different angle ...

Tom Maliti Correspondent East Africa Bureau

Direct line: +254 20 285 9109 Office line: +254 20 285 9000 +254 734 555 252 Fax: +254 20 2724726 Mobile +254 733 641 984

------------------------------ *From:* kictanet-bounces+tmaliti=ap.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto: kictanet-bounces+tmaliti <kictanet-bounces%2Btmaliti>=ap.org@ lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Florence Etta *Sent:* 18 August 2009 14:24 *To:* Maliti, Tom *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] the long fibre lie...Regulatory Action limited.

If the WASC experience is anythng to go by falling prices are not guaranteed simply by the presence of increased bandwidth!

Cheers, FE

(Still alive, kicking and yes lurking!)

Florence Etta PhD Telephone: Nairobi Mobile: +254-733-621-851 New York Rez: +1-917-639-3691 Canada Rez: +1-613-232-2729 Alternative Email:florence.etta@gmail.com<Email%3Aflorence.etta@gmail.com>

------------------------------ *From:* warigia bowman <warigia@gmail.com> *To:* feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 18 August, 2009 7:02:56 *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] the long fibre lie...Regulatory Action limited.

Dear Alex I share your frustration about the high prices and low bandwidth. My bamba is still slow. I too believe consumers are not getting a fair deal.

That being said, in Ndemo's defense, he is one of the most honest and hardworking PSes I have met in my research so far in this beautiful country of ours, across many different sectors. In terms of roles, the PS is the implementer, whereas the Minister is the policy "maker." Although lets be honest, Ndemo often does most of his bosses work, while not getting the credit, or the paycheck . . .

I think your ire, while very justified, should be directed at the Ministers, and at the companies, particularly Safaricom and Zain.

Yours, Warigia

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Warigia,

Below message to consumers and skunkworks lists sparked the heated discussions.

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:11 AM, Alex Gakuru<gakuru@gmail.com> wrote:

...

What a long optics fibre lie the whole thing was...

---Business Daily---

"we do not anticipate that [Internet] prices will drop as drastically as initially indicated or within a short time-frame"

< http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Company%20Industry/-/539550/639386/-/u8ar...

"..it was planning to implement an immediate 24 per cent discount on its internet charges and promised higher discounts once connections to international fibre optic links went live by the end of next month.."

< http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Company%20Industry/-/539550/638808/-/u8bc...

---summary--- in short, consumers are going to continue being ripped-off while a just too comfortable "hands-off" government sits back pretentiously expecting "market-forces" to push prices down -

The way I see it? we have several options a) to demand government officers( Ndemo & Co.) who promised cheap internet to resign, b) demand regulator to wake up and proactively set the prices c) continue living in a denial and that,hopefully, one day we will have "affordable" internet in Kenya.

Where is Bitange Ndemo and and why did he lie to us and raised Kenyans' hopes for cheap internet? we shall have serious problems to believe anything he promises henceforth. He should resign if internet prices do not go down as he promised.

And who runs this country anyway? telecommunication companies or the government and the regulator?

Alex _______________________________________________ ke-internetusers mailing list ke-internetusers@bdix.net http://www.bdix.net/mailman/listinfo/ke-internetusers

Waundo,

Kenya current problem not that old one, its different and it is "failed telecommunications market liberarisation."

" 3.4. Most rural areas still do not have Internet access despite the fact that there are many licensed ISPs. Additionally, the quality of service has not improved. Isn’t there a need to make provisions to enable rural access and enforce Service Level Agreements (SLAs) to guarantee quality of service? The licensed operators present said that the major factors hindering their rollout to the rural areas are: o High cost of connectivity offered by carriers. Competition has been used, as a means to lower prices however there seems to be no correlation between the cost and the number of players in the market. The licensing of more players in the IG&BO and PDNO licence has not translated to lower access costs. o Competition may also be used as a means to improving quality of service delivery and encourage the use of Service Level Agreements (SLA). This however has not been evident in the Kenyan market. o Finally, competition should result in increased access and availability to telecommunication service and infrastructure. However, since rural areas are not economically viable, most operators concentrate operations in urban centres."

<http://www.cck.go.ke/isp_stakeholders.pdf>

The question begs... What are the Ministry of Information and Communications and the Regulator actually doing to ensure that consumers benefit?

For further erodes hopes, if not adds insult to consumers injuries, to read on today's Business Daily "BUYOUT CCK says local ownership rule waived to allow foreign investor own more than 80 p.c"

Could some people in government actually responsible and/or prefer the statu-quo to remain? Now is the time to ask some of these hard questions- "academics" aside!

Alex

...

Hi Warigia - First sorry for missing ur big day due to some other commitment I had. I do not believe governments or governmental agencies should set consumer prices on anything. That is the work of market forces through competition. What governments need to do is ensure an environment that fosters competition. The example of ATT is from the old days when ATT was a monopoly operator. It reminds me of the 1998 Kenya Communications Act

...

gave monopoly status to Telkom Kenya in provision of some services such as landlines in Nairobi and international telephony. The mistaken rationale was that Telkom would rake in some "super profits" which would in turn be utilised in universal access provision. Needless to say those objectives were never attained. All along we prodded the Government to free the market through competition and private sector investment. When this happend as in the case of the mobile telephony sector the results in terms of better and more afrordable services were quick to manifest. Our argument in the case of universal access was that it was better for the Government to allow freedom in the market and then use fiscal instruments to raise funds from the IMPROVED, EXPANDED and CHEAPER services. This is being done today

...

10% excise tax on airtime and, believe me, most users do not even notice it.

With the marine fibre I noticed what looked like cross-ownership and cross-interest in the different ventures and maybe that can have an effect on the competitive environment necessary to bring prices down significantly.

Kind Regards, Waudo

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:21 +0300, "warigia bowman" <warigia@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Brian

Do you believe that ISPs in Kenya are sufficiently competitive to keep prices fair? I am just asking. I really do not know.

What about the concern people have expressed that KDN has dropped prices dramatically to ISPs, but consumers are not seeing the benefit.

By the way, it is WONDERFUL to hear from you!

Rigia

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Brian Munyao Longwe < blongwe@gmail.com> wrote:

Good point Warigia and the same applies here - CCK can and have exercised their authority to regulate voice pricing - this is especially true when there is either a monopoly or an operator with significant market share.

The same does not apply to market sectors like Internet services because there is full competition and never any player with significant market share. In the USA - FCC have never regulated Internet or bandwidth

...

as market forces generally accomplish this.

Best regards,

Brian

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:11 AM, warigia bowman <warigia@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear colleagues

Rates of operators can and have been regulated, In fact, in the United States we had something called rate of return regulation when ATT was a monopoly. They were allowed to charge a high rate, but in exchange, they had to ensure every tiny village of even 200 had phone service. Why can't our operators do that?

Sincerely, Warigia

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

Alex,

Your have rightly qaulified your solution - as simple. Indeed it is. Infact too simplistic to fly. The idea that the Regulator can reign in Operators who charge "high" internet rates cannot and will not work. Think about

...

in-famous SAT3 fiber link on the west coast of africa. Ask yourself why

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:28 PM, waudo siganga<emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote: that through a pricing the the

...

Regulators in Nigeria, Ghana, Cameroon, Angola, S-Africa etc have never stepped in and revoked licensces of operators over the last 15yrs of high internet costs offered on the fiber...

The answers are very complex...I will actually be discussing these limitations and available interventions in some upcoming ICT conference at Strath University in Sept 09 and I dont want to pre-empt ;-)....

walu.

--- On Fri, 8/14/09, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:

...

From: Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Fwd: the long fibre lie... Ndemo should resign if internet prices do not drop as he promised!! To: "Skunkworks forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 8:44 PM On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:38 PM, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd<kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Set the precedence what's your solution? Am sure if

you did we'd have

...

heard it by now. This thread is a knee jerk reaction to a bad internet day, we all have one.

Simple, the entity under Ndemo's docket that grants these cowboy operators licenses puts it's foot down and warn that I may revoke licenses for operators that charge waaaay up in the sky not just above cost but ABOVE acceptable international pricing benchmarks. They've all the data they need. Imagine, for example, Safaricom on the verge of losing their license, price drops, drops, drops, drops, drops, and drops..... across board.

Would this be acceptable to you? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

-- Dr. Warigia Bowman Assistant Professor The Department of Public Policy Leadership The University of Mississippi 107 Odom Hall University, MS 38677

URL: http://www.olemiss.edu/depts/leadership/index.html PHONE: 662-915-1904 EMAIL: mwbowman@olemiss.edu

The information contained in this communication is intended for the use of the designated recipients named above. If the reader of this communication is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error, and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify The Associated Press immediately by telephone at +44-20-7482-7400 and delete this e-mail. Thank you. [IP_UK_DISC] msk dccc60c6d2c3a6438f0cf467d9a4938

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: wainaina@madeinkenya.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina%40madeinkenya....

-- --- http://www.bungesms.com http://www.madeinkenya.org http://www.wainainamungai.com

From the recent discussions on TEAMS&SEACOM, my advice to IT Managers and domestic CTOs ;-) out there would be...."*Do not sign any new binding deals with ISPs until January 2010"*. I'm taking into account all the caution expressed by Dr. Ndemo and TEAMS investors such as MJ & Brian. It's also after fielding several sweet-nothings from the ISPs courting me ;-) ...ignore the roses and candy for now and look at the whole package.

1. Do not select an ISP based on pricing only. There's a whole service component you need to consider...longterm. 2. From the look of things, some ISPs might just shut down by January ;-) ...some have undisclosed illnesses that might turn fatal to their businesses by 2010 - thanks to TEAMS & SEACOM - ...so do your research beyond the standard powerpoint presentation by those brilliant and lovely looking sales ladies. 3. Squeeze all you can from a good ISP before you move on. That's assuming your current ISP is good at customer support & their techies can recite the contents of the SLA ;-) Did I leave out anything? ;-) Wainaina On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Onyango Hatari <onyango@inbox.com> wrote:

Tom and Wainaina

Thanks for your submissions here. I am not for us running away from the ones who refuse to lower the rates. What the unpatriotic Operators are doing is simply to ripoff Kenyans.

They know that many even here on KICTANET rarely read even that important document called the Budget. Even the PS was not able to argue on the basis of the Kenyan Budget 2009/2010.

These reasons make operators like Safaricom very arrogant in their pricing and will tend to exploit the users. The reductions from KDN are not imprtant until when we will see the ISPs reduce. KDN is in another league, we want reductions from AccessKenya, UUnet, Telkom Kenya, Safaricom, Zain, Yu.

For the ones who have not hooked on to the cable, we must just give them time but the ones who have the mentality to exploit Kenyans must be told off. We must have people and leaders focused on see the country move and ICT is a key player in any country's development.

Onyango

-----Original Message----- *From:* wainaina@madeinkenya.org *Sent:* Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:26:33 +0300 *To:* onyango@inbox.com *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] the long fibre lie...Regulatory Action limited.

Hi Tom,

This is where I sneak into the debate and salute you!

Is there a investor in SEACOM or TEAMS that would differ with the submission as a reason to significantly lower internet access rates?

KDN are charging $600 for a 1MB/1MB link over fibre and $300 for 512K/512K. That is a significant drop because *25,000/= *is what you'd be paying for a 512k/512k instead of 125,000/= per month if you had 512/512 on some unnamed ISP a few months ago.

I do not really believe we should be debating whether or not there will be an immediate drop. It is clear that an immediate drop has happened with some providers. Maybe we should just move to the provider capable to passing the gains we have for so long fought for....business/economic arguments and analogies aside.

Regards, Wainaina

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Maliti, Tom <tmaliti@ap.org> wrote:

Hi,

Assuming all things remain equal, here's a line from this year's budget speech that suggests, at the least, ISPs should be bringing down prices as well as offering bigger bundles:

****************************** First, *Mr. Speaker, *The East African Marine System Ltd (Teams) and Seacom Kenya Ltd

have invested heavily in under sea fibre optic cables, whose completion and full deployment is

expected to reduce significantly the cost of communication in our country. In addition to other

measures which the Government has so far taken to encourage such investment and to further

encourage the uptake of this facility by the internet service providers and other intermediaries, I

propose:

(i) To allow the internet service providers to offset against their taxable income the cost

incurred in acquiring the right to use the fibre optic cable over a period of twenty years;

(ii) To increase wear and tear on telecommunication equipment including the fibre optic cable

from 12.5% to 20%;

(iii) To provide tax deduction of 5% on computer software.

********************************* May be we need to look at things from a different angle ...

Tom Maliti Correspondent East Africa Bureau

Direct line: +254 20 285 9109 Office line: +254 20 285 9000 +254 734 555 252 Fax: +254 20 2724726 Mobile +254 733 641 984

------------------------------ *From:* kictanet-bounces+tmaliti=ap.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto: kictanet-bounces+tmaliti <kictanet-bounces%2Btmaliti>=ap.org@ lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Florence Etta *Sent:* 18 August 2009 14:24 *To:* Maliti, Tom *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] the long fibre lie...Regulatory Action limited.

If the WASC experience is anythng to go by falling prices are not guaranteed simply by the presence of increased bandwidth!

Cheers, FE

(Still alive, kicking and yes lurking!)

Florence Etta PhD Telephone: Nairobi Mobile: +254-733-621-851 New York Rez: +1-917-639-3691 Canada Rez: +1-613-232-2729 Alternative Email:florence.etta@gmail.com<Email%3Aflorence.etta@gmail.com>

------------------------------ *From:* warigia bowman <warigia@gmail.com> *To:* feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 18 August, 2009 7:02:56 *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] the long fibre lie...Regulatory Action limited.

Dear Alex I share your frustration about the high prices and low bandwidth. My bamba is still slow. I too believe consumers are not getting a fair deal.

That being said, in Ndemo's defense, he is one of the most honest and hardworking PSes I have met in my research so far in this beautiful country of ours, across many different sectors. In terms of roles, the PS is the implementer, whereas the Minister is the policy "maker." Although lets be honest, Ndemo often does most of his bosses work, while not getting the credit, or the paycheck . . .

I think your ire, while very justified, should be directed at the Ministers, and at the companies, particularly Safaricom and Zain.

Yours, Warigia

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com>wrote:

Warigia,

Below message to consumers and skunkworks lists sparked the heated discussions.

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:11 AM, Alex Gakuru<gakuru@gmail.com> wrote:

...

What a long optics fibre lie the whole thing was...

---Business Daily---

"we do not anticipate that [Internet] prices will drop as drastically as initially indicated or within a short time-frame"

< http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Company%20Industry/-/539550/639386/-/u8ar...

"..it was planning to implement an immediate 24 per cent discount on its internet charges and promised higher discounts once connections to international fibre optic links went live by the end of next month.."

< http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Company%20Industry/-/539550/638808/-/u8bc...

---summary--- in short, consumers are going to continue being ripped-off while a just too comfortable "hands-off" government sits back pretentiously expecting "market-forces" to push prices down -

The way I see it? we have several options a) to demand government officers( Ndemo & Co.) who promised cheap internet to resign, b) demand regulator to wake up and proactively set the prices c) continue living in a denial and that,hopefully, one day we will have "affordable" internet in Kenya.

Where is Bitange Ndemo and and why did he lie to us and raised Kenyans' hopes for cheap internet? we shall have serious problems to believe anything he promises henceforth. He should resign if internet prices do not go down as he promised.

And who runs this country anyway? telecommunication companies or the government and the regulator?

Alex _______________________________________________ ke-internetusers mailing list ke-internetusers@bdix.net http://www.bdix.net/mailman/listinfo/ke-internetusers

Waundo,

Kenya current problem not that old one, its different and it is "failed telecommunications market liberarisation."

" 3.4. Most rural areas still do not have Internet access despite the fact that there are many licensed ISPs. Additionally, the quality of service has not improved. Isn’t there a need to make provisions to enable rural access and enforce Service Level Agreements (SLAs) to guarantee quality of service? The licensed operators present said that the major factors hindering their rollout to the rural areas are: o High cost of connectivity offered by carriers. Competition has been used, as a means to lower prices however there seems to be no correlation between the cost and the number of players in the market. The licensing of more players in the IG&BO and PDNO licence has not translated to lower access costs. o Competition may also be used as a means to improving quality of service delivery and encourage the use of Service Level Agreements (SLA). This however has not been evident in the Kenyan market. o Finally, competition should result in increased access and availability to telecommunication service and infrastructure. However, since rural areas are not economically viable, most operators concentrate operations in urban centres."

<http://www.cck.go.ke/isp_stakeholders.pdf>

The question begs... What are the Ministry of Information and Communications and the Regulator actually doing to ensure that consumers benefit?

For further erodes hopes, if not adds insult to consumers injuries, to read on today's Business Daily "BUYOUT CCK says local ownership rule waived to allow foreign investor own more than 80 p.c"

Could some people in government actually responsible and/or prefer the statu-quo to remain? Now is the time to ask some of these hard questions- "academics" aside!

Alex

...

Hi Warigia - First sorry for missing ur big day due to some other commitment I had. I do not believe governments or governmental agencies should set consumer prices on anything. That is the work of market forces through competition. What governments need to do is ensure an environment that fosters competition. The example of ATT is from the old days when ATT was a monopoly operator. It reminds me of the 1998 Kenya Communications Act

...

gave monopoly status to Telkom Kenya in provision of some services such as landlines in Nairobi and international telephony. The mistaken rationale was that Telkom would rake in some "super profits" which would in turn be utilised in universal access provision. Needless to say those objectives were never attained. All along we prodded the Government to free the market through competition and private sector investment. When this happend as in the case of the mobile telephony sector the results in terms of better and more afrordable services were quick to manifest. Our argument in the case of universal access was that it was better for the Government to allow freedom in the market and then use fiscal instruments to raise funds from the IMPROVED, EXPANDED and CHEAPER services. This is being done today

...

10% excise tax on airtime and, believe me, most users do not even notice it.

With the marine fibre I noticed what looked like cross-ownership and cross-interest in the different ventures and maybe that can have an effect on the competitive environment necessary to bring prices down significantly.

Kind Regards, Waudo

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:21 +0300, "warigia bowman" <warigia@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Brian

Do you believe that ISPs in Kenya are sufficiently competitive to keep prices fair? I am just asking. I really do not know.

What about the concern people have expressed that KDN has dropped prices dramatically to ISPs, but consumers are not seeing the benefit.

By the way, it is WONDERFUL to hear from you!

Rigia

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com

wrote:

Good point Warigia and the same applies here - CCK can and have exercised their authority to regulate voice pricing - this is especially true when there is either a monopoly or an operator with significant market share.

The same does not apply to market sectors like Internet services because there is full competition and never any player with significant market share. In the USA - FCC have never regulated Internet or bandwidth

...

as market forces generally accomplish this.

Best regards,

Brian

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:11 AM, warigia bowman <warigia@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear colleagues

Rates of operators can and have been regulated, In fact, in the United States we had something called rate of return regulation when ATT was a monopoly. They were allowed to charge a high rate, but in exchange, they had to ensure every tiny village of even 200 had phone service. Why can't our operators do that?

Sincerely, Warigia

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

Alex,

Your have rightly qaulified your solution - as simple. Indeed it is. Infact too simplistic to fly. The idea that the Regulator can reign in Operators who charge "high" internet rates cannot and will not work. Think about

...

in-famous SAT3 fiber link on the west coast of africa. Ask yourself why

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:28 PM, waudo siganga<emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote: that through a pricing the the

...

Regulators in Nigeria, Ghana, Cameroon, Angola, S-Africa etc have never stepped in and revoked licensces of operators over the last 15yrs of high internet costs offered on the fiber...

The answers are very complex...I will actually be discussing these limitations and available interventions in some upcoming ICT conference at Strath University in Sept 09 and I dont want to pre-empt ;-)....

walu.

--- On Fri, 8/14/09, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:

...

From: Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Fwd: the long fibre lie... Ndemo should resign if internet prices do not drop as he promised!! To: "Skunkworks forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 8:44 PM On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:38 PM, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd<kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Set the precedence what's your solution? Am sure if

you did we'd have

...

heard it by now. This thread is a knee jerk reaction to a bad internet day, we all have one.

Simple, the entity under Ndemo's docket that grants these cowboy operators licenses puts it's foot down and warn that I may revoke licenses for operators that charge waaaay up in the sky not just above cost but ABOVE acceptable international pricing benchmarks. They've all the data they need. Imagine, for example, Safaricom on the verge of losing their license, price drops, drops, drops, drops, drops, and drops..... across board.

Would this be acceptable to you? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

-- Dr. Warigia Bowman Assistant Professor The Department of Public Policy Leadership The University of Mississippi 107 Odom Hall University, MS 38677

URL: http://www.olemiss.edu/depts/leadership/index.html PHONE: 662-915-1904 EMAIL: mwbowman@olemiss.edu

The information contained in this communication is intended for the use of the designated recipients named above. If the reader of this communication is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error, and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify The Associated Press immediately by telephone at +44-20-7482-7400 and delete this e-mail. Thank you. [IP_UK_DISC] msk dccc60c6d2c3a6438f0cf467d9a4938

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: wainaina@madeinkenya.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina%40madeinkenya....

-- --- http://www.bungesms.com http://www.madeinkenya.org http://www.wainainamungai.com

-- --- http://www.bungesms.com http://www.madeinkenya.org http://www.wainainamungai.com

Thanks Tom for highlighting the authoritativedocument. I believe this time round the operators and service are not going to have easy time taking consumers/citizens for a ride; unless they opt for the "Upende, Usipende" motto. With bigger bundles without lowering unit costs, it means we shall be paying more as we shall be able to access more downloads/uploads, more graphics we never used to access. With increased volume consumed, and lower rates, they should comfortably go past break even point. I congratulate KDN and Access Kenya for reading the public mood. We trust diplomacy shall prevail. Akich Kwach ----- Original Message ----- From: Maliti, Tom To: kwach@archway-productions.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] the long fibre lie...Regulatory Action limited. Hi, Assuming all things remain equal, here's a line from this year's budget speech that suggests, at the least, ISPs should be bringing down prices as well as offering bigger bundles: ****************************** First, Mr. Speaker, The East African Marine System Ltd (Teams) and Seacom Kenya Ltd have invested heavily in under sea fibre optic cables, whose completion and full deployment is expected to reduce significantly the cost of communication in our country. In addition to other measures which the Government has so far taken to encourage such investment and to further encourage the uptake of this facility by the internet service providers and other intermediaries, I propose: (i) To allow the internet service providers to offset against their taxable income the cost incurred in acquiring the right to use the fibre optic cable over a period of twenty years; (ii) To increase wear and tear on telecommunication equipment including the fibre optic cable from 12.5% to 20%; (iii) To provide tax deduction of 5% on computer software. ********************************* May be we need to look at things from a different angle ... Tom Maliti Correspondent East Africa Bureau Direct line: +254 20 285 9109 Office line: +254 20 285 9000 +254 734 555 252 Fax: +254 20 2724726 Mobile +254 733 641 984 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: kictanet-bounces+tmaliti=ap.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+tmaliti=ap.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Florence Etta Sent: 18 August 2009 14:24 To: Maliti, Tom Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] the long fibre lie...Regulatory Action limited. If the WASC experience is anythng to go by falling prices are not guaranteed simply by the presence of increased bandwidth! Cheers, FE (Still alive, kicking and yes lurking!) Florence Etta PhD Telephone: Nairobi Mobile: +254-733-621-851 New York Rez: +1-917-639-3691 Canada Rez: +1-613-232-2729 Alternative Email:florence.etta@gmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: warigia bowman <warigia@gmail.com> To: feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 18 August, 2009 7:02:56 Subject: Re: [kictanet] the long fibre lie...Regulatory Action limited. Dear Alex I share your frustration about the high prices and low bandwidth. My bamba is still slow. I too believe consumers are not getting a fair deal. That being said, in Ndemo's defense, he is one of the most honest and hardworking PSes I have met in my research so far in this beautiful country of ours, across many different sectors. In terms of roles, the PS is the implementer, whereas the Minister is the policy "maker." Although lets be honest, Ndemo often does most of his bosses work, while not getting the credit, or the paycheck . . . I think your ire, while very justified, should be directed at the Ministers, and at the companies, particularly Safaricom and Zain. Yours, Warigia On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote: Warigia, Below message to consumers and skunkworks lists sparked the heated discussions. On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:11 AM, Alex Gakuru<gakuru@gmail.com> wrote: > What a long optics fibre lie the whole thing was... > > ---Business Daily--- > > "we do not anticipate that [Internet] prices will drop as drastically > as initially indicated or within a short time-frame" > > <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Company%20Industry/-/539550/639386/-/u8ardrz/-/index.html> > > "..it was planning to implement an immediate 24 per cent discount on > its internet charges and promised higher discounts once connections to > international fibre optic links went live by the end of next month.." > > <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Company%20Industry/-/539550/638808/-/u8bcyoz/-/index.html> > > ---summary--- > in short, consumers are going to continue being ripped-off while a > just too comfortable "hands-off" government sits back pretentiously > expecting "market-forces" to push prices down - > > The way I see it? we have several options a) to demand government > officers( Ndemo & Co.) who promised cheap internet to resign, b) > demand regulator to wake up and proactively set the prices c) continue > living in a denial and that,hopefully, one day we will have > "affordable" internet in Kenya. > > Where is Bitange Ndemo and and why did he lie to us and raised > Kenyans' hopes for cheap internet? we shall have serious problems to > believe anything he promises henceforth. He should resign if internet > prices do not go down as he promised. > > And who runs this country anyway? telecommunication companies or the > government and the regulator? > > Alex > _______________________________________________ > ke-internetusers mailing list > ke-internetusers@bdix.net > http://www.bdix.net/mailman/listinfo/ke-internetusers > Waundo, Kenya current problem not that old one, its different and it is "failed telecommunications market liberarisation." " 3.4. Most rural areas still do not have Internet access despite the fact that there are many licensed ISPs. Additionally, the quality of service has not improved. Isn't there a need to make provisions to enable rural access and enforce Service Level Agreements (SLAs) to guarantee quality of service? The licensed operators present said that the major factors hindering their rollout to the rural areas are: o High cost of connectivity offered by carriers. Competition has been used, as a means to lower prices however there seems to be no correlation between the cost and the number of players in the market. The licensing of more players in the IG&BO and PDNO licence has not translated to lower access costs. o Competition may also be used as a means to improving quality of service delivery and encourage the use of Service Level Agreements (SLA). This however has not been evident in the Kenyan market. o Finally, competition should result in increased access and availability to telecommunication service and infrastructure. However, since rural areas are not economically viable, most operators concentrate operations in urban centres." <http://www.cck.go.ke/isp_stakeholders.pdf> The question begs... What are the Ministry of Information and Communications and the Regulator actually doing to ensure that consumers benefit? For further erodes hopes, if not adds insult to consumers injuries, to read on today's Business Daily "BUYOUT CCK says local ownership rule waived to allow foreign investor own more than 80 p.c" Could some people in government actually responsible and/or prefer the statu-quo to remain? Now is the time to ask some of these hard questions- "academics" aside! Alex On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:28 PM, waudo siganga<emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote: > Hi Warigia - First sorry for missing ur big day due to some other commitment > I had. I do not believe governments or governmental agencies should set > consumer prices on anything. That is the work of market forces through > competition. What governments need to do is ensure an environment that > fosters competition. The example of ATT is from the old days when ATT was a > monopoly operator. It reminds me of the 1998 Kenya Communications Act that > gave monopoly status to Telkom Kenya in provision of some services such as > landlines in Nairobi and international telephony. The mistaken rationale was > that Telkom would rake in some "super profits" which would in turn be > utilised in universal access provision. Needless to say those objectives > were never attained. All along we prodded the Government to free the market > through competition and private sector investment. When this happend as in > the case of the mobile telephony sector the results in terms of better and > more afrordable services were quick to manifest. Our argument in the case of > universal access was that it was better for the Government to allow freedom > in the market and then use fiscal instruments to raise funds from the > IMPROVED, EXPANDED and CHEAPER services. This is being done today through a > 10% excise tax on airtime and, believe me, most users do not even notice it. > > With the marine fibre I noticed what looked like cross-ownership and > cross-interest in the different ventures and maybe that can have an effect > on the competitive environment necessary to bring prices down significantly. > > Kind Regards, > Waudo > > > On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:21 +0300, "warigia bowman" <warigia@gmail.com> wrote: > > Dear Brian > > Do you believe that ISPs in Kenya are sufficiently competitive to keep > prices fair? I am just asking. I really do not know. > > What about the concern people have expressed that KDN has dropped prices > dramatically to ISPs, but consumers are not seeing the benefit. > > By the way, it is WONDERFUL to hear from you! > > Rigia > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Good point Warigia and the same applies here - CCK can and have exercised > their authority to regulate voice pricing - this is especially true when > there is either a monopoly or an operator with significant market share. > > The same does not apply to market sectors like Internet services because > there is full competition and never any player with significant market > share. In the USA - FCC have never regulated Internet or bandwidth pricing > as market forces generally accomplish this. > > Best regards, > > Brian > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:11 AM, warigia bowman <warigia@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Dear colleagues > > Rates of operators can and have been regulated, In fact, in the United > States we had something called rate of return regulation when ATT was a > monopoly. They were allowed to charge a high rate, but in exchange, they had > to ensure every tiny village of even 200 had phone service. Why can't our > operators do that? > > Sincerely, Warigia > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Alex, > > Your have rightly qaulified your solution - as simple. Indeed it is. Infact > too simplistic to fly. The idea that the Regulator can reign in Operators > who charge "high" internet rates cannot and will not work. Think about the > in-famous SAT3 fiber link on the west coast of africa. Ask yourself why the > Regulators in Nigeria, Ghana, Cameroon, Angola, S-Africa etc have never > stepped in and revoked licensces of operators over the last 15yrs of high > internet costs offered on the fiber... > > The answers are very complex...I will actually be discussing these > limitations and available interventions in some upcoming ICT conference at > Strath University in Sept 09 and I dont want to pre-empt ;-).... > > walu. > > > --- On Fri, 8/14/09, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote: > >> From: Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> >> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Fwd: the long fibre lie... Ndemo should resign >> if internet prices do not drop as he promised!! >> To: "Skunkworks forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >> Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 8:44 PM >> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:38 PM, >> David Kiania | Asentric Consulting >> Ltd<kianiadee@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > Set the precedence what's your solution? Am sure if >> you did we'd have >> > heard it by now. This thread is a knee jerk reaction >> to a bad internet >> > day, we all have one. >> > >> >> Simple, the entity under Ndemo's docket that grants these >> cowboy >> operators licenses puts it's foot down and warn that I may >> revoke >> licenses for operators that charge waaaay up in the sky not >> just above >> cost but ABOVE acceptable international pricing benchmarks. >> They've >> all the data they need. Imagine, for example, Safaricom on >> the verge >> of losing their license, price drops, drops, drops, drops, >> drops, and >> drops..... across board. >> >> Would this be acceptable to you? >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> Other lists >> ------------- >> Announce: >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce >> Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science >> kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general >> > -- Dr. Warigia Bowman Assistant Professor The Department of Public Policy Leadership The University of Mississippi 107 Odom Hall University, MS 38677 URL: http://www.olemiss.edu/depts/leadership/index.html PHONE: 662-915-1904 EMAIL: mwbowman@olemiss.edu The information contained in this communication is intended for the use of the designated recipients named above. 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