Re: [kictanet] KENIC Board Statement on dot.KE
Dear Mr Kivuva, Good morning. I have consulted and wish to respond as follows; Save for what amounts to your consistent hate-speech against Cofek on diverse occasions, we do welcome your criticism in good faith. Our concern was on the commercial end of the stick and not the technical side where you are certainly an expert without question. We are not as good. But even as an IT expert, whenever you fall or will ever fall sick, you don't need a degree from medical school to rate medical services as a consumer of those services. On the issue of KENIC, where the rubber meets the road is not their back-end knowledge of the industry - but the pricing and quality of service as interpreted by the consumer(s). That it was a mistake for the regulator to have engaged in "business" as a shareholder of KENIC was wrong. We appreciate that CAK wish to have its unspecified volume of shares transferred to KICTA. You probably have seen a separate mail confirming that KENIC are housed by CAK (full-financed by the taxpayer) and have not been paying rent. Given the public interest, therefore, it is only fair that the Kenya National Audit Office will peruse the books of accounts of KENIC and make them public before the said transfer from CAK to KICTA. We are, therefore, ready to "embarrass" ourselves by demanding and ensuring, at all reasonable and lawful costs, that KENIC is made much more competitive and that the industry is opened up to other interested parties. That is all we were saying. Finally, allow me to urge that dissenting opinion is embraced on this list. We are ready to learn from each other but let us not dismiss others that they "know nothing ." which generalizations can't be proven scientifically. The kind of e-mob-justice is not healthy. As they say, a little courtesy won't hurt. Good day! Kind regards, Japheth Ogutu www.cofek.co.ke From: lordmwesh@gmail.com [mailto:lordmwesh@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Kivuva Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 7:32 PM To: Consumers Federation of Kenya (COFEK) Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: [***SPAM*** Score/Req: 05.60/5.0] Re: [kictanet] KENIC Board Statement on dot.KE Clearly COFEK knows nothing about the domain name industry. The registry's work is to maintain all administrative data of the domain and generates a zone file which contains the addresses of the nameservers for each domain. Kenic is a registry for .ke. Other registries are ZADNA for .za, Nominet UK for .uk, PIR for .org and Verisign for .com and .net. A domain name registry is a database of all domain names and the associated registrant information in the top level domains of the DNS of the internet that allow third party entities to request administrative control of a domain name. From this explanation, you should understand that any particular registry cannot have a competitor managing the same database. A domain name registrar is a commercial entity that manages the reservation of Internet domain names. A domain name registrar must be accredited by a registry (KENIC, Nominet UK, Verisign, PIR e.t.c). There are many registrars in Kenya see http://kenic.or.ke/index.php/registrars/registrar-list and their work is to market the domains to the end users. For .com, org e.t.c we have enom, godaddy, 1and1 e.t.c. The registrars do a very important role in the ecosystem, this being innovation, marketing, and value added services like emails, website hosting, and website development. A registry will be overwhelmed doing all this. And if you can get time to go over the registrar list at http://kenic.or.ke/index.php/registrars/registrar-list you will find that you can register a .ke domain online in less than 5 minutes, and pay online. I'm not sure what you mean by Yahoo and Gmail are insecure. The last time I checked, cofek.co.ke was not signed. Please get somebody who understand the workings of DNS and the web business in your team before issuing unilateral statements. This way, you will avoid embarrassing yourself and your team. ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya. twitter.com/lordmwesh google ID | Skype ID: lordmwesh On 31 January 2014 07:05, Consumers Federation of Kenya (COFEK) <hotline@cofek.co.ke> wrote: Dear Mr Hussein, Thank you sir for the insights. Clearly, the answer to your question can be found in Wikipedia's definition you have generously availed. What you didn't address yourself to, however, is the quality of service levels, pricing, among other aspects in the case of a single-seller of an essential service. They are certainly uncompetitive and anti-consumer. Ask yourself, for instance, must KENIC's customers in this day and age pay through a registrar who gobbles up some commission adding to the consumers' woes? Can those security fears, if real, be addressed in a different way? Why can't people pay online for instance: http://www.101domain.com/domain_registration_joburg.htm Fair trade and competition policy may not necessarily be universal but it is about making principles of fairness and decency mean something in the marketplace especially for the goods/services we buy. Essentially, it offers a way for all of us to identify products that meet our values - principally so we can make choices that have a positive impact to the world around us. Retaining KENIC as a single-seller where multiple-sellers can compete favourably and profitably won't be in the consumer/KENIC's own interest. Just imagine, for a second, that a company like Safaricom, Airtel or AccessKenya ISP has a Yahoo/Gmail address. Or put this way, which Kenyan company or individual wouldn't die for a Dot Ke address for his or her business if they can afford? These domains uniquely define "Kenyan-ness" and a sense of patriotism - why must they be made expensive and a preserve of Ali Hussein (sorry and others) who can afford a "me.ke"? And how can they be made cheaper would be the salient question - open up the space to other sellers. Sound macro-economists will tell you, for free, that you don't protect KENIC market share by locking competitors out especially knowing that they have been there for a while. They possibly are only exploiting less than 5% of their market potential. Imagine if all Kenya "emailers" could dump the insecure Yahoo/Gmails for a Dot Ke . that would be big business for KENIC and her competitors! As you rightly put it, the captains at KENIC must know the market thus : "3. In today's hyper competitive world there are few monopolies left." Kind regards, Japheth Ogutu www.cofek.co.ke From: Ali Hussein [mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 5:28 PM To: Consumers Federation of Kenya (COFEK) Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: [***SPAM*** Score/Req: 07.40/5.0] Re: [kictanet] KENIC Board Statement on dot.KE Japheth How do you define a monopoly? In my opinion KeNIC is far from a monopoly. Let me just refresh ourselves here. According to Wikipedia:- <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly#cite_note-2> [Monopolies are characterized by a lack of economic <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition> competition to produce the <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_(economics)> good or <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_(economics)> service and a lack of viable <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitute_good> substitute goods. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly#cite_note-3> [3] The verb "monopolize" refers to the process by which a company gains the ability to raise prices or exclude competitors. In economics, a monopoly is a single seller. In law, a monopoly is a business entity that has significant market power, that is, the power to charge high prices. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly#cite_note-Orbach.26Campbell-4> [4] Although monopolies may be big businesses, size is not a characteristic of a monopoly. A small business may still have the power to raise prices in a small industry (or market). <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly#cite_note-Orbach.26Campbell-4> [4] So to put this in context. 1. If I'm unable to buy a .ke does it mean that I will not be able to have an email address, access the Internet, have a domain name? 2. Kenya Power is a monopoly that basically doesn't have a substitute here in Kenya. 3. In today's hyper competitive world there are few monopolies left. As the consumer watchdog it would auger well for COFEK to deeply understand the regulatory and competitive framework that informs the domain space in general and the ccTLD space in particular. Ali Hussein +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113 "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad On Jan 31, 2014, at 1:37 PM, "Consumers Federation of Kenya \(COFEK\)" <hotline@cofek.co.ke> wrote: Dear Sir/Madam, Thanks for sharing. On what basis does the Chairman of KENIC claim that "KENIC is the best suited entity to continue operating and managing ...."? Who was this consultant and how was he or she sourced? Was he or she paid and if yes by whom? When KENIC says it is the "best" who are the lesser ones that were being compared to it? KENIC is a monopoly under Cap 504, Competition Act and must be declared as such. It is also single-sourced in an opaque manner. KENIC should opened to a regulated competition. CAK and Government must get out of KENIC fast and swift in the consumer interest. Kind regards, Japheth Japheth Ogutu Program Officer Consumers Federation of Kenya (COFEK) Meky Place, Block F-45 Ngong Road/Ring Rd Kilimani Junction P.O Box 28053-00200, City Square, NAIROBI, Kenya Tel. 254-20-2615496, 2300859 Fax. 254-20-3861719; Cell phones: 0715555550, 0770700007 E-mail: hotline@cofek.co.ke Website: www.cofek.co.ke Facebook: "Consumers Federation of Kenya (Cofek)" Twitter: @ConsumersKenya YouTube: "ConsumersKenya" 13th December 2012 - President Kibaki assents to the Consumer Protection Act, 2012 Read it here: http://www.cofek.co.ke/Consumers%20Protection%20Act%202012.pdf -----Original Message----- From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+hotline=cofek.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Walubengo J Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 12:23 PM To: The Consumers Federation of Kenya (Cofek) Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: [kictanet] KENIC Board Statement on dot.KE Find attached. Ofcourse I am just being a messenger here, not necessarily the owner of the message since I do not have the privilege to sit on the KENIC board :-) walu. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafr ica.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
someone should post a "whats the problem at KENIC" for dummies ... I buy .KE domains from http://www.webhostkenya.co.ke/ and it works like a charm ... Have never spoken to them ... everything works online On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Consumers Federation of Kenya (COFEK) < hotline@cofek.co.ke> wrote:
Dear Mr Kivuva,
Good morning. I have consulted and wish to respond as follows; Save for what amounts to your consistent hate-speech against Cofek on diverse occasions, we do welcome your criticism in good faith. Our concern was on the commercial end of the stick and not the technical side where you are certainly an expert without question. We are not as good. But even as an IT expert, whenever you fall or will ever fall sick, you don't need a degree from medical school to rate medical services as a consumer of those services.
On the issue of KENIC, where the rubber meets the road is not their back-end knowledge of the industry - but the pricing and quality of service as interpreted by the consumer(s). That it was a mistake for the regulator to have engaged in "business" as a shareholder of KENIC was wrong. We appreciate that CAK wish to have its unspecified volume of shares transferred to KICTA. You probably have seen a separate mail confirming that KENIC are housed by CAK (full-financed by the taxpayer) and have not been paying rent. Given the public interest, therefore, it is only fair that the Kenya National Audit Office will peruse the books of accounts of KENIC and make them public before the said transfer from CAK to KICTA.
We are, therefore, ready to "embarrass" ourselves by demanding and ensuring, at all reasonable and lawful costs, that KENIC is made much more competitive and that the industry is opened up to other interested parties. That is all we were saying.
Finally, allow me to urge that dissenting opinion is embraced on this list. We are ready to learn from each other but let us not dismiss others that they "know nothing ..." which generalizations can't be proven scientifically. The kind of e-mob-justice is not healthy. As they say, a little courtesy won't hurt. Good day!
Kind regards,
Japheth Ogutu
www.cofek.co.ke
*From:* lordmwesh@gmail.com [mailto:lordmwesh@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of * Kivuva *Sent:* Friday, January 31, 2014 7:32 PM
*To:* Consumers Federation of Kenya (COFEK) *Cc:* Mwendwa Kivuva; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* [***SPAM*** Score/Req: 05.60/5.0] Re: [kictanet] KENIC Board Statement on dot.KE
Clearly COFEK knows nothing about the domain name industry.
The registry's work is to maintain all administrative data of the domain and generates a zone file which contains the addresses of the nameservers for each domain. Kenic is a registry for .ke. Other registries are ZADNA for .za, Nominet UK for .uk, PIR for .org and Verisign for .com and .net. A domain name registry is a database of all domain names and the associated registrant information in the top level domains of the DNS of the internet that allow third party entities to request administrative control of a domain name. From this explanation, you should understand that any particular registry cannot have a competitor managing the same database.
A domain name registrar is a commercial entity that manages the reservation of Internet domain names. A domain name registrar must be accredited by a registry (KENIC, Nominet UK, Verisign, PIR e.t.c). There are many registrars in Kenya see http://kenic.or.ke/index.php/registrars/registrar-list and their work is to market the domains to the end users. For .com, org e.t.c we have enom, godaddy, 1and1 e.t.c. The registrars do a very important role in the ecosystem, this being innovation, marketing, and value added services like emails, website hosting, and website development. A registry will be overwhelmed doing all this.
And if you can get time to go over the registrar list at http://kenic.or.ke/index.php/registrars/registrar-list you will find that you can register a .ke domain online in less than 5 minutes, and pay online.
I'm not sure what you mean by Yahoo and Gmail are insecure. The last time I checked, cofek.co.ke was not signed.
Please get somebody who understand the workings of DNS and the web business in your team before issuing unilateral statements. This way, you will avoid embarrassing yourself and your team.
______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya. twitter.com/lordmwesh
google ID | Skype ID: lordmwesh
On 31 January 2014 07:05, Consumers Federation of Kenya (COFEK) < hotline@cofek.co.ke> wrote:
Dear Mr Hussein,
Thank you sir for the insights. Clearly, the answer to your question can be found in Wikipedia's definition you have generously availed. What you didn't address yourself to, however, is the quality of service levels, pricing, among other aspects in the case of a single-seller of an essential service. They are certainly uncompetitive and anti-consumer. Ask yourself, for instance, *must* KENIC's customers in this day and age pay through a registrar who gobbles up some commission adding to the consumers' woes? Can those security fears, if real, be addressed in a different way? Why can't people pay online for instance: http://www.101domain.com/domain_registration_joburg.htm
Fair trade and competition policy may not necessarily be universal but it is about making principles of fairness and decency mean something in the marketplace especially for the goods/services we buy. Essentially, it offers a way for all of us to identify products that meet our values - principally so we can make choices that have a positive impact to the world around us.
Retaining KENIC as a single-seller where multiple-sellers can compete favourably and profitably won't be in the consumer/KENIC's own interest. Just imagine, for a second, that a company like Safaricom, Airtel or AccessKenya ISP has a Yahoo/Gmail address. Or put this way, which Kenyan company or individual wouldn't die for a Dot Ke address for his or her business if they can afford? These domains uniquely define "Kenyan-ness" and a sense of patriotism - why must they be made expensive and a preserve of Ali Hussein (sorry and others) who can afford a "me.ke"? And how can they be made cheaper would be the salient question - open up the space to other sellers.
Sound macro-economists will tell you, for free, that you don't protect KENIC market share by locking competitors out especially knowing that they have been there for a while. They possibly are only exploiting less than 5% of their market potential. Imagine if all Kenya "emailers" could dump the insecure Yahoo/Gmails for a Dot Ke ... that would be big business for KENIC and her competitors! As you rightly put it, the captains at KENIC must know the market thus : *"**3. In today's hyper competitive world there are few monopolies left."*
Kind regards,
Japheth Ogutu
www.cofek.co.ke
*From:* Ali Hussein [mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke] *Sent:* Friday, January 31, 2014 5:28 PM *To:* Consumers Federation of Kenya (COFEK)
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
*Subject:* [***SPAM*** Score/Req: 07.40/5.0] Re: [kictanet] KENIC Board Statement on dot.KE
Japheth
How do you define a monopoly? In my opinion KeNIC is far from a monopoly.
Let me just refresh ourselves here.
According to Wikipedia:-
[ <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly#cite_note-2>Monopolies are characterized by a lack of economic competition<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition> to produce the good <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_(economics)> or service <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_(economics)> and a lack of viable substitute goods <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitute_good>.[3]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly#cite_note-3> The verb "monopolize" refers to the *process* by which a company gains the ability to raise prices or exclude competitors. In economics, a monopoly is a single seller. In law, a monopoly is a business entity that has significant market power, that is, the power to charge high prices.[4]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly#cite_note-Orbach.26Campbell-4> Although monopolies may be big businesses, size is not a characteristic of a monopoly. A small business may still have the power to raise prices in a small industry (or market).[4]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly#cite_note-Orbach.26Campbell-4>
So to put this in context.
1. If I'm unable to buy a .ke does it mean that I will not be able to have an email address, access the Internet, have a domain name?
2. Kenya Power is a monopoly that basically doesn't have a substitute here in Kenya.
3. In today's hyper competitive world there are few monopolies left.
As the consumer watchdog it would auger well for COFEK to deeply understand the regulatory and competitive framework that informs the domain space in general and the ccTLD space in particular.
Ali Hussein
+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 31, 2014, at 1:37 PM, "Consumers Federation of Kenya \(COFEK\)" < hotline@cofek.co.ke> wrote:
Dear Sir/Madam,
Thanks for sharing. On what basis does the Chairman of KENIC claim that "KENIC is the *best suited entity* to continue operating and managing ...."? Who was this consultant and how was he or she sourced? Was he or she paid and if yes by whom? When KENIC says it is the "best" who are the lesser ones that were being compared to it? KENIC is a monopoly under Cap 504, Competition Act and must be declared as such. It is also single-sourced in an opaque manner. KENIC should opened to a regulated competition. CAK and Government must get out of KENIC fast and swift in the consumer interest.
Kind regards,
Japheth
Japheth Ogutu
*Program Officer*
Consumers Federation of Kenya (COFEK)
Meky Place, Block F-45
Ngong Road/Ring Rd Kilimani Junction
P.O Box 28053-00200, City Square, NAIROBI, Kenya
Tel. 254-20-2615496, 2300859 Fax. 254-20-3861719; Cell phones: 0715555550, 0770700007
E-mail: hotline@cofek.co.ke
Website: www.cofek.co.ke
Facebook: "Consumers Federation of Kenya (Cofek)"
Twitter: @ConsumersKenya YouTube: "ConsumersKenya"
13th December 2012 - President Kibaki assents to the Consumer Protection Act, 2012 Read it here: http://www.cofek.co.ke/Consumers%20Protection%20Act%202012.pdf
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet [ mailto:kictanet-bounces+hotline=cofek.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<kictanet-bounces+hotline=cofek.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke>] On Behalf Of Walubengo J Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 12:23 PM To: The Consumers Federation of Kenya (Cofek) Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: [kictanet] KENIC Board Statement on dot.KE
Find attached.
Ofcourse I am just being a messenger here, not necessarily the owner of the message since I do not have the privilege to sit on the KENIC board :-)
walu.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (2)
-
Agosta Liko -
Consumers Federation of Kenya (COFEK)